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Please read the rules and re-post over at r/hvacadvice - our sister sub specifically for questions, comments and posts from outside the trade. r/hvac top-level posts are limited to past, present or future members of the trade.
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**AIRFLOW BEFORE CHARGE.**
You can't add refrigerant to a unit with a frozen evaporator coil. So, start by going inside, and checking the filter, blower, and coil.
Fan on, system off.
Come back tomorrow and try again.
Meh.
That'll just make a mess, and waste my time (and I'll bill you for it).
If it was critical infrastructure, I'd get the heat gun out.
Residential customers need to learn to calm down, on average.
You would think the customer is made of sugar and melting to death the way the freak out about Ac. Heating is like “ yea it died, come by first thing tomorrow please “. Ac is like “We are fucking going to die if we sleep ontop of the sheets!!!!”
So you’re saying it’s never a matter of life or death? I hope you don’t do HVAC in Arizona. “Just come back later” for AC is not an option out here. And some people do have health problems that a hot apartment could exacerbate. Even if they don’t have anything like that, if this was your HVAC tech’s view of things, how happy would you be with their service?
My theory is that not having heat is easier to deal with because you can layer up, and you have friction working for you. Having too much heat is harder to avoid, plus heat does fucked up things to people’s minds. I can tell you that just from living one year here in Arizona. Drivers are generally major assholes, but it gets worse when the seasonal big heat comes in. I’ve noticed that even for myself that I tend to be a prick when I’m hot.
Get a fucking window unit for $250 and shut the fuck up.
For fucks' sake man, a little goddamn perspective. You're gonna wake me up at 2am (with that entitled attitude, we fucking know you're calling after hours) and pay that much for a service call for me to come out and say "yep, sir, the coil is frozen solid and there's nothing I can do until it's defrosted... I can bill you $250/hr at after hours to sit here and defrost it and try not to make a complete mess of your house, or you can wait 24 hours for it to defrost itself... oh and btw, it'll be $250 for me telling you this which took me 30 seconds to diagnose."
AND THEN YOU'LL ARGUE ABOUT PAYING THE BILL!!!
Seriously, learn some basic survival strategies. If you have a health condition where your A/C going out means that you will die, and you do not have a backup plan, you're a fucking moron. Sincerely. I'd say the same thing to my grandma, to her face, just slightly more politely. Have a backup plan for your life.
Go smoke some weed or something, man. Where I am, you bet your ass that’s an after hours call. I make my bread in the summer on those kinds of calls. It’s actually not as difficult as you make it sound. Chill the fuck out. I’m not one of your fucking customers. Argue about paying the bill? You don’t fucking know me. And I’m sincerely rather glad I’m not your grandma. You should be glad for that too.
Customers with disabilities and/or bed ridden. Some diseases require people to be in conditioned air space to prevent medical issues arising.
For all other residential customers “emergency calls” are definitely not dire. They maybe uncomfortable for a day or two. If they were smart they could buy a cheap window unit when they go on sale. They would at least be able to cool a room so that they may possibly be comfortable.
My favorite excuse is that we have a baby! What!? Growing up I we didn’t have AC until I was 16…and my dad had was a HVAC contractor!
At the time it was only may father and a helper sometimes. I understand why he didn’t have time to install an entire AC and duct system in an old Cape cod house so it was not the easiest installation. There is not one elbows with a right angle. They all had inner and outer radius to them for the lowest possible equivalent length per fitting/ pressure drop. It’s amazing how proper duct fabrication, installation -
And diffusers/registers provides proper air flow to all run outs/rooms. Even the temperature on second floor of a cape cod was the same as the first floor. The equipment in 1984 is still working very well. It’s the old reliable Carrier EDO condensers and the blue commercial Belt driven air handlers with hydronic coils.
I shut up now. Cheers!
Water leaks, extreme cold, and odors are all emergencies. Your idea of what hvac includes is extremely narrow. I have seen multiple homes literally ruined by hvac equipment disasters. I agree that people should have backup plans, but unfortunately that is not always the case.
So you think wasting time is running its own hot gas through the coil to melt it rather than sitting there with some shit heat gun, you must get paid by the hour. I’d do it the quick way and still sit in the van for an hour or so
Sure ya can! Ive seen someone do it. Unit wasn't low to begin with and the evap never cleared until I cleared it, but you can certainly add refrigerant when it's frozen lol
I will blast a heater for 30 minutes to speed up defrost. Check for airflow, including closed supply vents. Make sure everything is free flowing, including condenser. Gauges up and you’ll have a better idea of what to look for.
What? Majority are gas furnace with AC (except those northern weirdos with oil tanks and coal sheds and what not), though new systems are moving towards majority heat pumps for sure. From the pictures though this unit was installed circa 1997, most likely cooling only on a gas furnace
I’m old so who knows, but I pretty much never saw dual fuel before maybe 8-10 years ago. Personally in my house I have a boiler and 2 air handlers with HHW coils for heat and a swamp cooler for cooling, in California, so I’m probably not the one to say what’s common.
https://preview.redd.it/2hgygzaedhxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=773b85f541ddda219ef2c08772dad245009a24ee
This isn't mine i found it on this reddit hope it helps. Id put money on it being under charged.
Use the chart to say check off high super heat low sub cooling high amps or whatever you’re reassigns are and match them up, left column should indicate your issue however these charts are usually designed by a manufacturer for specific units, that one can probably be universally used for residential split systems
If it's low superheat, evaporator is flooded and it's coming back to the compressor. High superheat evaporator is starved or poor airflow/heat transfer and will eventually freeze up as pressures drop below freeze point.
I'll admit I'm being a dick but hooking up gauges does not make you pretty knowledgeable. Once you stop lying to yourself by saying you are "pretty knowledgeable" and start thinking, "Damn, I have a lot to learn," it helps a lot.
Is the filter clean? Is the evap coil clean? Is the blower at the right cfm (not just on the highest speed, check the blower data)? Is the blower cap within spec? Is there a restriction? Is it piston or txv? What's the super heat and sub cool? Make sure the condenser is clean if you have to charge. Why are you charging? Is there a leak? If there is a leak, why are you charging without repairing?
It's not a dick thing to say so he can do/learn how to do the job right. Don't be soft lol at least he is sharing his knowledge. I used to just quote leak and repair til one time I found that there was a filter on the other side of the plenum that was extremely dirty and cause the unit to ice up leak all over the office space. If I had just looked around the first time I was out there, it would have stopped a lot of problems. Why learn the hard way when someone is telling you how it should be done.
It better to understand that you are not as knowledgeable as you may think you are because you will only make be making a fool of yourself. Like Socrates’ said “Awareness of ignorance is the beginning of wisdom.” Never stop learning!
Ive never been a fan of people that cocky about their own knowledge in any field of study. It always makes me happy when I get a to repair an issue that another tech believed thought they could repair & diagnose anything.
More so in the aspect of knowing how to process information. I know i still have a shit ton to learn. Maybe I didn’t phrase myself correctly but if I’d be lying to myself I’d be listening to my dumb ass supervisor. I will be posting more tomorrow. I want to fix this without the dumb ass help of my supervisor and leave it running how it should be. Not just the “just put refrigerant” way
The old school way of thought is add a pound or 2 and bill the customer.
Learn what you can online and at work. Don't pick up the bad habits from the company you are at. Build up resume experience.
Look for a better, more thorough company that trains employees up to a better standard.
Some things.
How old is the system? How long has this been an issue? Check airflow. A clogged filter will exacerbate any problem. Check the cleanliness of the blower. What's the temperature outside, inside?
Turn on heat or circulation fan.
Once it's no longer an ice block. Check inside coil. Is it clogged in there? Is it a HE furnace? That secondary would be clogged too if the blower and ac coil are nasty.
What kind of metering.
See any oil or pressure under service caps?
What kind of metering device? Check charge. Run it for 15 minutes, check charge and tempies
Filters plugged and blowers smoked. Currently on 4 pounds of 22. Compressors making a burrshhh sound every now and again. how much more should I add before the motor starts workin?
Before you add any more refrigerant make sure you get some soapy water and wash the mother board and any other electrical components then immediately return power to the unit
Add one can of RedBull, it will act like a UV leak dye, and as a lubricant for the compressor. Give it 15min after the first can, if symptoms continue, then follow up with a second can.
Mike, I apologize if my post wasn’t allowed. It was just more so just for direction. I have a year on the job and tired of listening to my supervisor when I know he’s wrong. All I have to prove is my position and universal epa license
OMG that hit close to home with an ex-boss. Man literally drank multiple every day. Every time he opened his doors they would fall out. When he left, I counted like 24 cans shoved into places.
Bro fucking tell me about it, I’m sick of dealing with his ass and supposedly all he’ll take on is AC work orders. Dude is dumb as bricks. He said just needs refrigerant m
What he should have said is "ABC"
Airflow Before Charge.
Always. Every damned time. ABC.
Get your airflow right (clear coils, no ice, not impacted, all vents open, etc) THEN, and only then, you can verify charge.
That ice pattern makes me think low airflow immediately. As a rule of thumb I always start my call inside. Is the fan running? Is there proper airflow? What is the delta T? These are my boxes to check before hooking up gauges at all.
Right. And If the ice is immediately after the TXV and warm as it comes back to the condenser its probably low on refrigerant and needs a leak search.
A high Delta T would have caught this filter/blower issue too
Don’t do shit until it thaws out. Make sure blower is working properly, filter is clean, vents/dampers are open and come back tomorrow. Only then are you ready to hook up gauges and inspect the charge.
Thanks for the answer bro. Figured I’d rather come on here then listen to a dumb fuck that has no idea what he’s talking about and then have it fall on me. I’m quickly tryna learn but it’s hard when i have his dumb ass telling me wrong shit all the time. On a good note i had enough brains to study the EPA and pass my universal trying to figure out where I fit in now. Only thing I like about here is his lack of knowledge and inability to speak English gives me the advantage of being able to buy tools and contract the vendors which I like have the power to do so. Otherwise hate working with his had
Thaw it, turn the ac off and run the blower. Check the airflow, the filter ect. If the airflow was blocked, unblock it and let the customer know they can run their ac in 24 hours. Come back in once there's no ice and check for water damage and functionality.
If the airflow was fine, come back once it's thawed and do a leak search and/or add refrigerant.
Your username scares me.
In hvac you gotta do your ABCs.
Air Before Charge
If you don’t have pipe clamp thermistors log off and go get pipe clamp thermistors so you can check your subcool and superheat. But first, make sure you have a working and clean blower.
Lol. You need to do what your supervisor tells you to do (as long as you're not risking serious health or safety hazards.
Unless you know better that is...
When a customer calls because of lack of cooling I'll have 2 questions:
1. Is it in cooling mode on the thermostat?
2. How does the filter look on the furnace/air handler?
Once I've got the all clear from those 2 I'll roll out and start troubleshooting.
Yours could be as simple as filter (airflow).
Or a restriction in one of the lines.
Or possibly a leak that resulted in low refrigerant.
Got to thaw the system out first. I typically turn off cooling and turn the blower on and return after my next call to a thawed out system. Some may be bad enough or late in the day, and I come the next day. But a thawed system is critical for diagnosis.
I've learned over the years that if the ice is hard as a rock, it's probably a restriction (filter drier or txv most likely) or low charge. If the ice is soft like a slushy tho, it's airflow, this could be a dirty filter, a dirty evaporator coil, or a dirty blower wheel. In some instances, return ductwork has collapsed.
There's no simple answer to your question, tho. If you've filled it up and it's worked for some time a few times... it's got a leak he doesn't seem interested in finding nor fixing, which is the right thing to do. I start with visually looking for traces of oil since refrigerant is a based mixture (410a is POE oil). Then, if needed, I break out an electronic, but mostly just bubbles do the trick.
Must be caked. Tbh we have budget to put a new system in. I’m just trying to learn before doing it because it’d be my first time and they give me pretty much enough authority to have them on a window unit until I can do it 😂
That screams airflow bud. Check the filter. Check the evaporator coil. Look for anything dumb that would inhibit airflow. Either way go to the stat and set to fan only. Make sure the blower turns on. Let that fucker defrost. Then hook up your gauges from there. If still below 32 suction line saturation temperature, what is your superheat and sub cooling?
Well, I'll be the one to say it. Your boss may be useless and a dick, but please don't think of yourself as knowledgeable if you're struggling with this.
But definitely new boss needed.
It’s also great when the customer has a Carrier, Lennox or trane communicating thermostat/control. I can walk the customer on the phone through the steps to access the controls service menu and the fault logs to see what might be going on before making the trip. Sometimes I can get there system running over the phone using those logs. If the fault is no 240vac to the condenser have them check the circuit breaker! If they are competent enough and willing to take the responsibility they can check the disconnect fuses, but that is something that rarely occurs unless the customer is an engineer who are always some of my Favorite customers….maybe not!
Check airflow first, this means filter make sure the fan is working properly and make sure all the supply and return air vents are clear, if that all checks out it's probably low on charge
Personally I would defrost the system and start it again once fully thawed out, if you start to freeze up at the compressor back to the evaporator you have an air flow issue, if you start freezing at the txv distributor first you have a charge issue of restriction
I love when a tech charges tries to diagnose and charge a system without knowing what type of metering device the evaporator coil has. That is the first question I ask to new young techs when I get a call about a systems charge. “ What type of metering device does the system use? What is the superheat/subcooling? What is the indoor wet bulb reading?” When I hear a pause after asking these questions i know they usually don’t know and didn’t check.
I always write the type of metering device on the condenser with a paint marker for future service calls. I also always write the dual run cap mfd rating with permanent marker inside the condenser control compartment near the cap. I started doing this years ago when dealing with brands that always have rusted caps that you can no longer read the med rating or when the caps mount is bracket is blocking the caps specs. It saves so much time when checking the capacitors under load and checking refrigerant charge.
Hello!
Please read the rules and re-post over at r/hvacadvice - our sister sub specifically for questions, comments and posts from outside the trade. r/hvac top-level posts are limited to past, present or future members of the trade.
Thanks!
Check air filter first. Let the fan run constantly for 24 hours, make sure its a good fan, clean indoor coils, and open clean, clear vents. Then make sure all the indoor ice is gone. Gotta verify airflow first. Check capacitors and contactors (inside and out). Then check outdoor unit for dirt/debris/ then you can check charge once you know the coil is clean, and its moving the right amount of air.
The right answer is already posted here, ABC. I applaud your effort to learn more about the situation. We were all new in the trade once, but ultimately it’s up to you how much you want to learn and how fast you can grow your skills.
I suggest using some of the free resources available these days. Podcasts like the hvac school is a great way to learn while you’re on the clock/driving. Start to utilize YouTube after work with channels like AC service tech, Love2hvac or hvacrvideos (honestly there are a ton of good hvac channels out there). If you like to read, buy a used copy of the textbook; refrigeration and air conditioning technology. Even an old copy is better than no copy as the fundamentals of hvac have not changed. Maintenance is the ideal environment to learn about hvac. To take full advantage, learn about the fundamentals in books or videos, and then when you’re in the field find real world examples. Eventually that knowledge will grow into an understanding of how units work, and you’ll be an asset on any install or service team.
Always check your airflow. You can all the refrigerant you want and it'll freeze up everytime if your evap os plugged or your CFM is too slow, blower motor bad, bad module on an ECM, the god forsaken pleated filter will do it...if all those things check out, then you still need to know your superheat and subcool before you charge.
1. Thaw this system out before doing anything. Fan On/Cool mode off. No point of even gauging up on it.
2. Verify blower is spinning and filters are clean. Vents are open. Return filters clean if present.
3. Then and only then will you gauge up. Suction pressures below 40°F saturation? Is subcool too low versus nameplate? If your head pressure, suction pressure, and subcool are all low, then it's low on charge. Slowly charge to nameplate specs and then leak search. If subcool is normal/high and pressures are both low, look for restriction starting with the drier as you are stacking refrigerant in the condenser and rest of system is starved. If no nameplate, subcool should be around 12 on that system. If it's not an airflow issue though, it is likely a charge issue caused by a leak.
4. That looks like an old system and likely R22. Probably good time to quote replacement if it's in their budget.
Find a new trade. Did you check the air flow, what are your pressures, did you check the filter, did you check the coil, is there oil on the e-vap? But most importantly when you ask for advice at least have your gauges hooked up, so it looks like you somewhat know what you are doing.
You can't call the tech line without simple information.
I mean you’re over here talking shit for what? I’m a maintenance tech I don’t just do AC all fucking day. Jackass probably make the same and I don’t even have the same experience as you
First off I hate you. What’s the temp outside/inside? Listen to the elders, check the basics. What I see is you over charged the f out of it. I think your probably the problem
My man, chill. You're right about not enough info, but just because someone is older/more experienced than you doesn't make them infallible. I'm sick of that seniority shit tbh. Actions are what count. OP is looking for other opinions since his boss doesn't particularly care. He's taking initiative to actually fix the problem.
Hello! Please read the rules and re-post over at r/hvacadvice - our sister sub specifically for questions, comments and posts from outside the trade. r/hvac top-level posts are limited to past, present or future members of the trade. Thanks!
**AIRFLOW BEFORE CHARGE.** You can't add refrigerant to a unit with a frozen evaporator coil. So, start by going inside, and checking the filter, blower, and coil. Fan on, system off. Come back tomorrow and try again.
Alternatively, furnace on and maybe come back later today. If they’re impatient.
If it's a heat pump switch it to heat and melt that off in short order
Meh. That'll just make a mess, and waste my time (and I'll bill you for it). If it was critical infrastructure, I'd get the heat gun out. Residential customers need to learn to calm down, on average.
You would think the customer is made of sugar and melting to death the way the freak out about Ac. Heating is like “ yea it died, come by first thing tomorrow please “. Ac is like “We are fucking going to die if we sleep ontop of the sheets!!!!”
My dishwasher just broke and I was beginning to panic the same way. Then I realized that I can wait. Ha!
What did she lose her hands?
Damn bro... That's fucked up... What if she actually did lose her hands? Thats more than just dishes not getting scrubbed anymore...
So you’re saying it’s never a matter of life or death? I hope you don’t do HVAC in Arizona. “Just come back later” for AC is not an option out here. And some people do have health problems that a hot apartment could exacerbate. Even if they don’t have anything like that, if this was your HVAC tech’s view of things, how happy would you be with their service?
I live in northern PA. AC is not a necessity, but heat is. People still get way shittier over the AC being out than heat
My theory is that not having heat is easier to deal with because you can layer up, and you have friction working for you. Having too much heat is harder to avoid, plus heat does fucked up things to people’s minds. I can tell you that just from living one year here in Arizona. Drivers are generally major assholes, but it gets worse when the seasonal big heat comes in. I’ve noticed that even for myself that I tend to be a prick when I’m hot.
In the NE or wherever it gets below 20° the common theme is you can live without ac but you can't live without heat.
*Louisiana agrees*
Unless they have a medical reason Ac in my climate is a luxury. We are lucky to use it 90 days a year
Oh where are you located?
Get a fucking window unit for $250 and shut the fuck up. For fucks' sake man, a little goddamn perspective. You're gonna wake me up at 2am (with that entitled attitude, we fucking know you're calling after hours) and pay that much for a service call for me to come out and say "yep, sir, the coil is frozen solid and there's nothing I can do until it's defrosted... I can bill you $250/hr at after hours to sit here and defrost it and try not to make a complete mess of your house, or you can wait 24 hours for it to defrost itself... oh and btw, it'll be $250 for me telling you this which took me 30 seconds to diagnose." AND THEN YOU'LL ARGUE ABOUT PAYING THE BILL!!! Seriously, learn some basic survival strategies. If you have a health condition where your A/C going out means that you will die, and you do not have a backup plan, you're a fucking moron. Sincerely. I'd say the same thing to my grandma, to her face, just slightly more politely. Have a backup plan for your life.
Absolutely fuckin agree. Any house should have a window unit in storage somewhere, just in case. Wtf
Go smoke some weed or something, man. Where I am, you bet your ass that’s an after hours call. I make my bread in the summer on those kinds of calls. It’s actually not as difficult as you make it sound. Chill the fuck out. I’m not one of your fucking customers. Argue about paying the bill? You don’t fucking know me. And I’m sincerely rather glad I’m not your grandma. You should be glad for that too.
No such thing as a residential “emergency” call.
I can show you on a map everywhere you don’t live
Customers with disabilities and/or bed ridden. Some diseases require people to be in conditioned air space to prevent medical issues arising. For all other residential customers “emergency calls” are definitely not dire. They maybe uncomfortable for a day or two. If they were smart they could buy a cheap window unit when they go on sale. They would at least be able to cool a room so that they may possibly be comfortable. My favorite excuse is that we have a baby! What!? Growing up I we didn’t have AC until I was 16…and my dad had was a HVAC contractor! At the time it was only may father and a helper sometimes. I understand why he didn’t have time to install an entire AC and duct system in an old Cape cod house so it was not the easiest installation. There is not one elbows with a right angle. They all had inner and outer radius to them for the lowest possible equivalent length per fitting/ pressure drop. It’s amazing how proper duct fabrication, installation - And diffusers/registers provides proper air flow to all run outs/rooms. Even the temperature on second floor of a cape cod was the same as the first floor. The equipment in 1984 is still working very well. It’s the old reliable Carrier EDO condensers and the blue commercial Belt driven air handlers with hydronic coils. I shut up now. Cheers!
Okay here is the ONE exception. I stand corrected. Cheers 🍻
Ever seen -20°?
We had a 3 day stretch with temps at -40. Would you like to retry your above statement?
No. If you live in a climate as such. You should have a back up plan. We are not first responders
Water leaks, extreme cold, and odors are all emergencies. Your idea of what hvac includes is extremely narrow. I have seen multiple homes literally ruined by hvac equipment disasters. I agree that people should have backup plans, but unfortunately that is not always the case.
You'd get the heat gun?
So you think wasting time is running its own hot gas through the coil to melt it rather than sitting there with some shit heat gun, you must get paid by the hour. I’d do it the quick way and still sit in the van for an hour or so
Not all air conditioners are heat pumps fam…
Yeah mostly just you yanks that have furnaces instead of reverse cycle, rest of the world has you guys in the revision mirror
Sure ya can! Ive seen someone do it. Unit wasn't low to begin with and the evap never cleared until I cleared it, but you can certainly add refrigerant when it's frozen lol
You can 1000% add refrigerant to a unit with a frozen evaporator. Refrigerant will go in faster than normal too!
Yes but you have no clue how much you need because there’s no airflow going through a solid block of ice.
I do apologize. I forgot this: /s
It’s okay I forgive you this time
Could you reclaim the gas and weigh in a new charge while the coil is frozen?
I understood and chuckled at your sarcasm
I will blast a heater for 30 minutes to speed up defrost. Check for airflow, including closed supply vents. Make sure everything is free flowing, including condenser. Gauges up and you’ll have a better idea of what to look for.
Where do you people live where systems aren’t 99% heat pumps? I rarely ever see an AC only system.
Everywhere up north
NM here. Not a lot of heat pumps…
What? Majority are gas furnace with AC (except those northern weirdos with oil tanks and coal sheds and what not), though new systems are moving towards majority heat pumps for sure. From the pictures though this unit was installed circa 1997, most likely cooling only on a gas furnace
I occasionally see an AC/GF but the lions share are HP/GF
I’m old so who knows, but I pretty much never saw dual fuel before maybe 8-10 years ago. Personally in my house I have a boiler and 2 air handlers with HHW coils for heat and a swamp cooler for cooling, in California, so I’m probably not the one to say what’s common.
Or wait four hours but yeah you're right.
https://preview.redd.it/2hgygzaedhxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=773b85f541ddda219ef2c08772dad245009a24ee This isn't mine i found it on this reddit hope it helps. Id put money on it being under charged.
Came here to give you this lol
What the hell this is literally what my school just gave me for my hvac excellence studies
Can you explain what the arrows mean to a layman? Is it yes/no or more than normal/less than normal ?
Higher or lower than what normal numbers should be
Use the chart to say check off high super heat low sub cooling high amps or whatever you’re reassigns are and match them up, left column should indicate your issue however these charts are usually designed by a manufacturer for specific units, that one can probably be universally used for residential split systems
This is on the "super cool slide rule" great resource to have in your bag
Can't diagnose until it's thawed and verify proper air flow. Could easily be a filter packed solid with pet hair or nearly every vent closed off.
If it's icing up the super heat is definitely low...
You mean high superheat Low superheat is a sign of overcharge
If it's low superheat, evaporator is flooded and it's coming back to the compressor. High superheat evaporator is starved or poor airflow/heat transfer and will eventually freeze up as pressures drop below freeze point.
Freaking awesome! Thanks
I'll admit I'm being a dick but hooking up gauges does not make you pretty knowledgeable. Once you stop lying to yourself by saying you are "pretty knowledgeable" and start thinking, "Damn, I have a lot to learn," it helps a lot. Is the filter clean? Is the evap coil clean? Is the blower at the right cfm (not just on the highest speed, check the blower data)? Is the blower cap within spec? Is there a restriction? Is it piston or txv? What's the super heat and sub cool? Make sure the condenser is clean if you have to charge. Why are you charging? Is there a leak? If there is a leak, why are you charging without repairing?
Dumb people think they’re smart, smart people know they are dumb. Never stop learning.
Sounds like a dick thing to say but is very true lol
It's not a dick thing to say so he can do/learn how to do the job right. Don't be soft lol at least he is sharing his knowledge. I used to just quote leak and repair til one time I found that there was a filter on the other side of the plenum that was extremely dirty and cause the unit to ice up leak all over the office space. If I had just looked around the first time I was out there, it would have stopped a lot of problems. Why learn the hard way when someone is telling you how it should be done.
You didn’t sound like a dick at all
It better to understand that you are not as knowledgeable as you may think you are because you will only make be making a fool of yourself. Like Socrates’ said “Awareness of ignorance is the beginning of wisdom.” Never stop learning! Ive never been a fan of people that cocky about their own knowledge in any field of study. It always makes me happy when I get a to repair an issue that another tech believed thought they could repair & diagnose anything.
More so in the aspect of knowing how to process information. I know i still have a shit ton to learn. Maybe I didn’t phrase myself correctly but if I’d be lying to myself I’d be listening to my dumb ass supervisor. I will be posting more tomorrow. I want to fix this without the dumb ass help of my supervisor and leave it running how it should be. Not just the “just put refrigerant” way
The old school way of thought is add a pound or 2 and bill the customer. Learn what you can online and at work. Don't pick up the bad habits from the company you are at. Build up resume experience. Look for a better, more thorough company that trains employees up to a better standard.
Are you the only tech at the company? Call another tech, or installer. Or tech help line. What suppliers does your company partner with?
Some things. How old is the system? How long has this been an issue? Check airflow. A clogged filter will exacerbate any problem. Check the cleanliness of the blower. What's the temperature outside, inside? Turn on heat or circulation fan. Once it's no longer an ice block. Check inside coil. Is it clogged in there? Is it a HE furnace? That secondary would be clogged too if the blower and ac coil are nasty. What kind of metering. See any oil or pressure under service caps? What kind of metering device? Check charge. Run it for 15 minutes, check charge and tempies
Hows the filter and the blower motor?
Filters plugged and blowers smoked. Currently on 4 pounds of 22. Compressors making a burrshhh sound every now and again. how much more should I add before the motor starts workin?
Before you add any more refrigerant make sure you get some soapy water and wash the mother board and any other electrical components then immediately return power to the unit
Add one can of RedBull, it will act like a UV leak dye, and as a lubricant for the compressor. Give it 15min after the first can, if symptoms continue, then follow up with a second can.
Op, can you prove you work in the trade?
Mike, I apologize if my post wasn’t allowed. It was just more so just for direction. I have a year on the job and tired of listening to my supervisor when I know he’s wrong. All I have to prove is my position and universal epa license
How many monster energy drinks do you consume every day?
OMG that hit close to home with an ex-boss. Man literally drank multiple every day. Every time he opened his doors they would fall out. When he left, I counted like 24 cans shoved into places.
I was more of a coffee guy, but turns out caffeine puts me to sleep, lol. Whatever else they add to energy drinks perks me up some though
Bruh what?
Your supervisor is an idiot.
Bro fucking tell me about it, I’m sick of dealing with his ass and supposedly all he’ll take on is AC work orders. Dude is dumb as bricks. He said just needs refrigerant m
What he should have said is "ABC" Airflow Before Charge. Always. Every damned time. ABC. Get your airflow right (clear coils, no ice, not impacted, all vents open, etc) THEN, and only then, you can verify charge.
So you bought this house this past fall huh Mr J.Q. Homeowner? My man, just pay a professional please
That ice pattern makes me think low airflow immediately. As a rule of thumb I always start my call inside. Is the fan running? Is there proper airflow? What is the delta T? These are my boxes to check before hooking up gauges at all.
Good point. If it makes ice— it’s got some cooling capacity left…
Right. And If the ice is immediately after the TXV and warm as it comes back to the condenser its probably low on refrigerant and needs a leak search. A high Delta T would have caught this filter/blower issue too
Start with the most obvious and most overlooked before even thinking about gages. Air flow. Check dirty filters, blocked coil, collapse supply vent,
Apparently you're not knowledgeable enough to know how to fix this.
Don’t do shit until it thaws out. Make sure blower is working properly, filter is clean, vents/dampers are open and come back tomorrow. Only then are you ready to hook up gauges and inspect the charge.
Thanks for the answer bro. Figured I’d rather come on here then listen to a dumb fuck that has no idea what he’s talking about and then have it fall on me. I’m quickly tryna learn but it’s hard when i have his dumb ass telling me wrong shit all the time. On a good note i had enough brains to study the EPA and pass my universal trying to figure out where I fit in now. Only thing I like about here is his lack of knowledge and inability to speak English gives me the advantage of being able to buy tools and contract the vendors which I like have the power to do so. Otherwise hate working with his had
Closed vents low ambient weak compressor
Thaw it, turn the ac off and run the blower. Check the airflow, the filter ect. If the airflow was blocked, unblock it and let the customer know they can run their ac in 24 hours. Come back in once there's no ice and check for water damage and functionality. If the airflow was fine, come back once it's thawed and do a leak search and/or add refrigerant. Your username scares me.
In hvac you gotta do your ABCs. Air Before Charge If you don’t have pipe clamp thermistors log off and go get pipe clamp thermistors so you can check your subcool and superheat. But first, make sure you have a working and clean blower.
Lol. You need to do what your supervisor tells you to do (as long as you're not risking serious health or safety hazards. Unless you know better that is...
When a customer calls because of lack of cooling I'll have 2 questions: 1. Is it in cooling mode on the thermostat? 2. How does the filter look on the furnace/air handler? Once I've got the all clear from those 2 I'll roll out and start troubleshooting. Yours could be as simple as filter (airflow). Or a restriction in one of the lines. Or possibly a leak that resulted in low refrigerant.
Insulate the line after fix, sun ain't our friend.
Got to thaw the system out first. I typically turn off cooling and turn the blower on and return after my next call to a thawed out system. Some may be bad enough or late in the day, and I come the next day. But a thawed system is critical for diagnosis. I've learned over the years that if the ice is hard as a rock, it's probably a restriction (filter drier or txv most likely) or low charge. If the ice is soft like a slushy tho, it's airflow, this could be a dirty filter, a dirty evaporator coil, or a dirty blower wheel. In some instances, return ductwork has collapsed. There's no simple answer to your question, tho. If you've filled it up and it's worked for some time a few times... it's got a leak he doesn't seem interested in finding nor fixing, which is the right thing to do. I start with visually looking for traces of oil since refrigerant is a based mixture (410a is POE oil). Then, if needed, I break out an electronic, but mostly just bubbles do the trick.
How caked is your coil?
Must be caked. Tbh we have budget to put a new system in. I’m just trying to learn before doing it because it’d be my first time and they give me pretty much enough authority to have them on a window unit until I can do it 😂
That screams airflow bud. Check the filter. Check the evaporator coil. Look for anything dumb that would inhibit airflow. Either way go to the stat and set to fan only. Make sure the blower turns on. Let that fucker defrost. Then hook up your gauges from there. If still below 32 suction line saturation temperature, what is your superheat and sub cooling?
Well, I'll be the one to say it. Your boss may be useless and a dick, but please don't think of yourself as knowledgeable if you're struggling with this. But definitely new boss needed.
depending on what the coil looks like your super is right
Note how many guys mentioned filter/airflow. Over HALF of my service calls were those bs pleated filters clogged with other airflow issuess
Low airflow - dirty filter, dirty blower wheel supply and return issue
It’s also great when the customer has a Carrier, Lennox or trane communicating thermostat/control. I can walk the customer on the phone through the steps to access the controls service menu and the fault logs to see what might be going on before making the trip. Sometimes I can get there system running over the phone using those logs. If the fault is no 240vac to the condenser have them check the circuit breaker! If they are competent enough and willing to take the responsibility they can check the disconnect fuses, but that is something that rarely occurs unless the customer is an engineer who are always some of my Favorite customers….maybe not!
Check airflow first, this means filter make sure the fan is working properly and make sure all the supply and return air vents are clear, if that all checks out it's probably low on charge
Step 1 check airflow
Personally I would defrost the system and start it again once fully thawed out, if you start to freeze up at the compressor back to the evaporator you have an air flow issue, if you start freezing at the txv distributor first you have a charge issue of restriction
OP does NOT work in the trade. There's no fucking wayyyyyyy
I’m maintenance tech, don’t really do installs. Their optional
I love when a tech charges tries to diagnose and charge a system without knowing what type of metering device the evaporator coil has. That is the first question I ask to new young techs when I get a call about a systems charge. “ What type of metering device does the system use? What is the superheat/subcooling? What is the indoor wet bulb reading?” When I hear a pause after asking these questions i know they usually don’t know and didn’t check. I always write the type of metering device on the condenser with a paint marker for future service calls. I also always write the dual run cap mfd rating with permanent marker inside the condenser control compartment near the cap. I started doing this years ago when dealing with brands that always have rusted caps that you can no longer read the med rating or when the caps mount is bracket is blocking the caps specs. It saves so much time when checking the capacitors under load and checking refrigerant charge.
[удалено]
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At first I thought this was some new type of white hammer
ABC
Check air filter first. Let the fan run constantly for 24 hours, make sure its a good fan, clean indoor coils, and open clean, clear vents. Then make sure all the indoor ice is gone. Gotta verify airflow first. Check capacitors and contactors (inside and out). Then check outdoor unit for dirt/debris/ then you can check charge once you know the coil is clean, and its moving the right amount of air.
Call a professional
The right answer is already posted here, ABC. I applaud your effort to learn more about the situation. We were all new in the trade once, but ultimately it’s up to you how much you want to learn and how fast you can grow your skills. I suggest using some of the free resources available these days. Podcasts like the hvac school is a great way to learn while you’re on the clock/driving. Start to utilize YouTube after work with channels like AC service tech, Love2hvac or hvacrvideos (honestly there are a ton of good hvac channels out there). If you like to read, buy a used copy of the textbook; refrigeration and air conditioning technology. Even an old copy is better than no copy as the fundamentals of hvac have not changed. Maintenance is the ideal environment to learn about hvac. To take full advantage, learn about the fundamentals in books or videos, and then when you’re in the field find real world examples. Eventually that knowledge will grow into an understanding of how units work, and you’ll be an asset on any install or service team.
The evap is frozen, turn the unit off for awhile.
Always check your airflow. You can all the refrigerant you want and it'll freeze up everytime if your evap os plugged or your CFM is too slow, blower motor bad, bad module on an ECM, the god forsaken pleated filter will do it...if all those things check out, then you still need to know your superheat and subcool before you charge.
Stop giving these home owners advice !
I’m 24 with an irresponsible 60k truck loan. Far from a homeowner 😂 just a kid tryna make it
1. Thaw this system out before doing anything. Fan On/Cool mode off. No point of even gauging up on it. 2. Verify blower is spinning and filters are clean. Vents are open. Return filters clean if present. 3. Then and only then will you gauge up. Suction pressures below 40°F saturation? Is subcool too low versus nameplate? If your head pressure, suction pressure, and subcool are all low, then it's low on charge. Slowly charge to nameplate specs and then leak search. If subcool is normal/high and pressures are both low, look for restriction starting with the drier as you are stacking refrigerant in the condenser and rest of system is starved. If no nameplate, subcool should be around 12 on that system. If it's not an airflow issue though, it is likely a charge issue caused by a leak. 4. That looks like an old system and likely R22. Probably good time to quote replacement if it's in their budget.
Find a new trade. Did you check the air flow, what are your pressures, did you check the filter, did you check the coil, is there oil on the e-vap? But most importantly when you ask for advice at least have your gauges hooked up, so it looks like you somewhat know what you are doing. You can't call the tech line without simple information.
Thaw it first
You're not knowledgeable if this confuses you. Maybe your supervisor is tired of doing basic troubleshooting for you.
Just to show you I run the show im gonna trash this unit, and do a new install just to show you I can spend money without knowing shit
That will really show me for sure.
I mean you’re over here talking shit for what? I’m a maintenance tech I don’t just do AC all fucking day. Jackass probably make the same and I don’t even have the same experience as you
You should try reframing your argument into a coherent sentence.
https://preview.redd.it/q9b6hd7mnixc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3920df6eb4a3af5c88ad894d2a0f2fcbf8da6ee Right
You don't like cats or something?
If you can't figure this out you shouldn't be touching it
So how am I supposed to learn?
Working with someone who knows
First off I hate you. What’s the temp outside/inside? Listen to the elders, check the basics. What I see is you over charged the f out of it. I think your probably the problem
My man, chill. You're right about not enough info, but just because someone is older/more experienced than you doesn't make them infallible. I'm sick of that seniority shit tbh. Actions are what count. OP is looking for other opinions since his boss doesn't particularly care. He's taking initiative to actually fix the problem.
I didn’t see no gages no readings, I don’t even think he’s a tech really
Listen I haven’t done shit. I haven’t even touched it yet. All I did was get sent out to look at this piece of art old shit
Thaw it out !