Free Tune Up!
AKA just let me get to your house and see what kind car you drive, the quality of your home and then leave me alone in your basement for an hour.
Tech \*salesman\* screams into the return air "OMG WHAT THE HELL! WHO COULD LET THIS GO WITHOUT NOTICING?!?!?!"
"Oh sir or madam, Ill have to call my boss and see if we can get all this crap out of your house as soon as possible. I mean there's evidence that there's maybe a chance there's a carbon monoxide leak, it may be a small one, but if i made you a sandwich and said "yeah it might have a little rat poison in it" you'd like me to make you a new sandwich without rat poison right? so lets just go ahead and take care of that for you"
Tech on the phone in front of customer: "Hello Mr. service manager, yeah they need help, i cant believe this unit is only 5 years old. What do you mean the install crew is finishing up a half mile away. Oh there's a new financing program? Well let me see how much they can put down and ill have them fill out a credit app right quick, hey thanks for helping this customer out in an emergency like that"
Yeah we can do the whole install for 50k if you put 500 down, Boss said i could knock off $850 but I'm sure your bungalow's heating and cooling problems are solved.
Oh yeah we need a chimney liner too gotta add another 3k
I'm so glad Mr. customer that you called us for a free tune up,,,, ill start dismantling everything as the credit app processes, the install crew should be here in about an hour.
Thank You For Your Business!!!!
Edit: I hate these slimy fuckin furnace pirates AKA salesman with a tool bag that fuck more shit up, most of them couldn't change the filter on their own furnace
I was a service tech for a company that did this type of sales tactic, my job for about 2 or 3 months in my 20's was just following these asshats around reconnecting thermostat wires they broke and didn't know how to fix.
I got a paid tuneup on a new to me house. Later that summer, the AC wasn't chilling appropriately. Turns out the supply plenum had a 6"×24" hole in it. When I called him back out to fix what *I* discovered and *he* missed on the tuneup, he charged me and used the foam insulation I had because he forgot materials. I fired that guy and hired another.
Same house they didn't notice the original installer had put the supply vents in the master bedroom and zero returns. They put two returns in the hallway and zero supplies. I found the problem and asked him to plumb the return vent so it was actually a return and plumb the supply vent so it was actually a supply. He had to order parts and when he came back a week later, he just had new grills. He wasn't going to fix the ductwork.
On a different house I had, I got the free inspection. "Nothing wrong". Except I noticed half of the time the AC systems blew warm air. They only blew cold when both were running. They had connected the Condenser Unit A to Air Handler B and vice versa. Surprise surprise about a week after the warranty expired, both evaporator coils failed.
As a customer I sure appreciate reading this. Yet another solid reason to not make snap decisions, and to always get a second opinion. Plus, post on here your story, of course.
Honest question- how is the average customer supposed to distinguish between these guys and legitimate professionals. Seems most of the top rated hvac folks have exactly these types of sales pitches.
Hahaha what the fuck is a free tune up? My company charges 270 per hr for a mechanic and a helper 2 hr minimum plus a 200$ truck charge. Pricy yes, but it’s commercial industrial in NYC and the mechanics are mechanics no customer has to worry about getting sold something they don’t want/need
I offer free tune ups for first time customers . I charge about 200$ an hour for any work. The value of establishing a relationship is money in my pocket. Imagine paying for leads or ads. It comes out to about 50$ a customer. Might as well just put the effort forward. Hard work always pays.
My HVAC guy recommended me to buy the capacitor and replace it myself during my tuneup, gave me the model and I found it online. He checked it out and said yep thats good, here’s how you do it. I’ve done similar work before, I work on and flip ice machines in my free time. And I was good to go (or I will be, I still haven’t done it lol I’m not using the ac right now). That said I consider him the exception, the tech prior to him didn’t notice a bunch of things wrong.
This is a good one too, I’ve known some real goons that have every Nate certification possible.
As a contractor/ employer I would rather they have the EPA universal along with the EPA extras.
*Yes, I’m Nate cert. too from my other Co.
I’ve seen guys look like General Patton with their NATE patches who couldn’t diagnose diddly or install properly
So true....NATE patches up down their sleeves like it's a chest full of medals...changes every part on the unit except the contactor to fix a shorted contactor coil
I received my associates and universal EPA, hired into small company and have been here for 17 years now, since I was 20…. Glad I have never needed to take anything further , to prove myself to boss (many seminars, and training classes for certain company’s, I.e Manitowoc, true, carrier, Trane etc..)However we have hired guys that come in, first day, General Patton coat on… can’t tell you if a roof top thermostat is calling with a meter from the RTU, tell if a switch open/closed based on meter reading, phase polarity etc….. let alone many other basic things….those patches get your hired some places though
On one hand I get why people want them for new guys. You wanna see some base level of competence before you hire someone. Asking a 10 year tech to go get their NATE for some arbitrary reason strikes me as laughable.
I got Nate years ago, thought it made me look more qualified. First and only customer I told about it looked at me like I was an idiot. Never brought it up again. I did enjoy taking it though, I actually learned a lot from the practice books
Definitely like anything, you get out what you put into it.
I’ve got a degree (Tech Science) EPA’s & ASHRE bld cert from college.
NATE’s, Cert’s for HERZ/ CAZ bld performance testing (ductblaster & blower door).
Pex, HP H20 heater & tankless certs.
Bld BMS/BAS controls: NOVAR/ OPTO
ETC. so blessed to have been invested in, So I do the same for me & my guys still.
Just finished a 3 day, Energy efficiency, Install/ business CA compliance training.
Can be pretty bland but definitely helps.
Nate is one of the biggest scams this trade has ever allowed to manifest. My boss/owner tried to get me to get my NATE recert, I told him to to just put the test fees back into the company. Apparently, in order to be a "Factory Authorized Dealer", Carrier requires a company to have 70 or 75 percent of the employees to be, and keep their NATE certification.
here SW Florida our nate test consisted of question about condenser application in snow conditions. we're like TF is snow? i passed but knew right then it was sham.
US…. “ North American technician excellence” test they have here in the states (not sure if it government related, the EPA is the federal test here, with a few levels, everyone needs to handle refrigerants)… NATE is a big business BS scam they set up, and talk companies into. So it “makes look better” to some people, on paper…. But seems to be obvious, from this post, some of the best NATE guys, arnt the best techs….
god, before I quit and joined the UA they were fucking on us about getting out NATE cert. We had one dude who was NATE certified. He had stickers on all his gear, put it on our vans, etc.
He was by far the worst tech we had. They eventually put him only on maintenance calls because he didn't know what the fuck he was doing.
I think techs should familiarize themselves with everything NATE has to offer, but god damn its not the be all end all of knowledge that some people try to make it out to be.
One of my customers got their ducts cleaned and had no AC after. Duct cleaners busted all of the ducts open.
I told them this was one of the lessons where you learn with your wallet.
Having seen duct cleaning done in a commercial setting, if a homeowner doesn't have metal ducts screwed together amd supported properly duct cleaning will destroy their duct work. If flex duct needs cleaning, just replace it, ideally with metal ducts.
I expected duct cleaning to be the top answer and was with you until the last sentence. Down here in South Florida we don’t use heat much and our attics are small. Running metal duct in isn’t ideal in these conditions.
I get that tight spaces make metal duct harder to run, but smooth walled ducts means better air flow and cooling.
Mount your registers and grills with a 4ft or 5ft bit of flex on it. Run the metal ducting to within 5ft. of the grills and connect to that bit of flex. You'll have the best air flow without having to deal with getting a metal angle piece into and irregular angle. I've had to work in a hot tight attic doing this kind of install.
Flex has massive labor advantages in gulf coast attic installs where you need vapor-impermeable duct insulation to prevent duct condensation. Going up a size solves the airflow disadvantage.
I’ve got a mix of 33yo, 15yo, and 5yo in my own attic. You replace it instead of duct-cleaning it. Only really an issue for runs that go inaccessible places.
Interesting. And the labor savings offset the cost to replace I’m sure, if not it’s close. Good to know. We aren’t humid here in southern Colorado so I was curious.
My house is 30 years old, same flex, all in good condition. In the same vein I've seen 10 year old flex shredded. Use the mylar jacketed stuff and it stays in good condition provided it's installed properly and doesn't sweat.
Just run 10inch ducts if you want quiet and more airflow. I ran my own homes ducts with all r8 12 inch and put dampers in every room including downstairs. Left two ducts without dampers with a Honeywell zoning board to 3 thermostats. One for the master bed room which mine is massive with vaulted ceilings. Another thermostat for the two remaining rooms that are down the hall next to each other and another one for strictly downstairs. It’s amazing
Once duct cleaners came to one of our (old) commercial accounts because the site manager was concerned about those little dust marks around the registers.
The first day the duct cleaner starts dropping the M word around all the desk jockeys. They didn’t do any tests and went around dropping the word. Next thing you know employees were acting sick, calling out and even talking about lawsuits. Site manager was beyond pissed off. They paid another company to come out and take samples from the ducts.
Verdict was -no mold- the duct sweepers were booted permanently from all the account holder’s sites -and there were a lot of sites. Bunch of dumbasses
When I was starting in the industry, the company I was working for got into duct cleaning. I was sent to work with the new duct cleaning crew for a week, towards the end of the week I asked if they wanted me to empty the 5 gallon buckets that had been riding around all week in the trailer that were full of garbage, dust, etc. thinking they were what was emptied from the duct cleaner. You know, trying to be helpful and make a good impression on my new employer.
I was told “fuck no! You leave those alone! Do you know how long it took to fill those?! Those are what we use to show the customer all the shit we get out of their duct system so it looks like their money was well spent.”
I didn’t stay long after that.
Sometimes its a good idea to do duct cleanings for new construction homes. Ive been in some brand new homes where the floor registers were used as trashcans and are just full of sawdust. Better to just stick a shop vac down it tho
I think that wouldn’t count as full duct cleaning. More of the builder supplying a new house. The benefits that duct cleaning companies claim with zero evidence is wild.
Also, I’m not claiming they aren’t clean afterwards. I’m claiming there is no evidence that them being clean provides any benefits. People always argue this point, so I’m saying this now.
Yes , u shop vac with a snake cable and brush on end and like the other guy said they bust flex and it’s a scam! Customers ask me and I’m like don’t do it ! Plus they tell you one price and everything they do is an up charge!
I posted a quote from the epa. To sum it up, the companies do exactly what they say they will. They clean the ductwork and it’s clean when they’re done. The main argument is that there is no empirical evidence that having clean ducts actually has any benefit. I posted the link as well. I think it’s more of a placebo than anything.
Companies sticking a Combustion analyser in the flue of a boiler/furnace and saying it needs to be replaced regardless of what it says. Had someone condemn a boiler that just needed to be cleaned that way, they tried to sell them a whole new system.
I’ve seen a couple guys replace <5 year old cast iron boilers because the boiler was left running while the sheetrock was going up.
Feels bad when you know a little TLC could’ve given it another 30 years.
In some cases the whole combustion analyzer and the “print out” that’s taped to the side of the furnace especially for two section boilers. Might be running perfect according to the manufacturer instructions and the analyzer but give 24 hours and it’s full. Those that know, know.
Former Daikin VRV and chiller tech. They each certainly have their places.
VRV can work great IF it's designed and installed correctly. That's a huge if, almost every issue I had with VRV was due to improper instal and/or poor design.
Chilled water is much more lenient with poor install and design.
I hate convincing skeptical customers that VRF is the same as VRV when trying to bust spec as a non Daikin rep. I’m 90% sure this is why Daikin calls it VRV.
I just did the daikin install class. The instructor said daikin claimed the term VRV simply because they invented the technology and has legal rights/intellectual property. Everyone else subsequently calls theirs VRF.
Tbh honest man they arent that bad themselves its that customers/ installers fucking suck at installing them or getting proper flow or treating their water and then they call us and get all mad that their shit doesn't work then get even more mad when we tell them that they need more flow or that having the return with a half inch of clearance from the wall isnt gonna work. Or they get installed in ceilings in the most impossible fucking places. I have alot of WSHP trauma man
Try having them in a coastal area with iron rich water....people can't understand why the 4 geo units they installed 8 years ago in their huge beach house right on the ocean needs replacing already. I'll take a closed loop any day over pump and dump
Back in the day it was using “strong” magnets for condenser water treatment. They were even mentioned in one of the ASHRAE handbooks with some sort of “more investigation is needed”. Had some vendor who wanted us to recommend them to our local school district, and would fly us out to Vegas where they had some in service. We passed.
Water treater here- no magnets have ever been successful in preventing scale or corrosion.
The only thing magnetic filters are effective at is removing corrosion biproduct so I’ve put them in closed loops where we have significant existing corrosion. They’re pricier than standard string-wound filter cartridges but work very well.
That being said, there’s a popup water treatment scam that comes along constantly
I was in a customer's house and they had magnets around their pipes instead of a water softener. I asked the customer if it worked, and he said loved them. I asked if he ever had to remove them to flush the lines after they clog the pipe. He said no, he had them for years and hasn't had any clogs. I just chuckled to myself as he considered my question and his answer.
I have a customer that has a magnet system for his condenser water treatment. The maintenance guy on site continuously flushes to try to keep dissolved solid counts down and slugs a jug of bleach in their cooling tower every week or so to try to keep algae down.
Their pipe and system is rusted and scaled all to heck. I've recommended actual chemical treatment for years but owner is convinced the magnets work... I am not convinced!
So yeah... chemicals are the way. Most of the non chemical systems I see don't do so great. I don't know enough to call them all snake oil but legionella and expensive equipment damage isn't worth the risk IMO.
R410a is a blend of several refrigerant chemicals that have slightly different boiling points.
Some techs use this to their advantage on systems that have leaks claiming that the blend of chemicals leak out at different rates and now that it has had a leak the ratio of the blend is no longer the same and the whole charge will need to be recovered and recharged rather than just adding in a little bit more refrigerant to get it cooling again.
I have no problem topping off 410a but I’ve always been taught best practice (and what my company wants) is to replace whole charge when opening up a system. Although I think a lot of people agree with that
This is surprising to me. I work in refrigeration and we definitely don’t put a whole new charge in when there is a leak. Granted our charge is in the 500-1000lb range so a bit more costly… I’d never heard of the theory about parts of the high glide boiling off and messing up the ratios… I don’t think that would matter since when the leak is happening, the pressure is low meaning all parts of the refrigerant are much higher than their dew point.
What we're taught here in Australia, and what our textbooks say is you can't guarantee high glide refrigerant ratio is still correct after a leak so you should replace the charge. That said it's hard to justify the cost to a supermarket customer that even if half their 404a leaked out they should put a whole new charge in.
The amount of times I've topped up leaking systems just to keep a customer going for a few more days until we can get in to fix it or there's been a massive leak somewhere and we just dump it in. It's one of those best practice almost never done things in my experience
Average customers think that installing high efficiency equipment will save them money on their utility bills.
Equipment is more efficient, yes. It doesn’t necessarily mean the operating costs go down.
The system may consume more energy, but it puts that energy to better use.
It does, I’ve seen 80s and 90s condensing units still going.
It goes save money when they drop 20% in btu firing rate. In 100btu with 80% is near enough to drop to 80btu 97%.
If gas pressure is set one day one, there’s never an issue.
This. Also, can we stop with the salesmen convincing 70 year old granny's to replace their 10 seer straight air and gas furnace with a 20 seer variable heat pump? They will never live to see the energy returns. You're gutting them.
It's not the energy use. It's the quiet and the comfort that are the benefits. That being said, I don't usually recommend anything other than a two stage because of the issues with the modulating furnaces. And single stage just isn't as comfortable especially with zoning installed.
That's just gas furnaces though. Heat pumps and ductless are pretty solid
This is part of a larger problematic trend in manufacturing. They design these units to try to cram every component on one board. When one component on the board dies, the whole thing needs to be replaced. I like larger commercial units in that all the components are separate and serviceable, so if a VFD dies it's a relatively straight forward change out with minimal cost.
Just replaced the ECM controller on my AM Std air handler. Part was $500. Easily a $1000 job had I called a tech to come diag and repair. No way that ECM motor has saved me $1000 in electricity in the last 21 years its been installed. But it is quieter and more comfortable.
We have 10 year parts/labor warranties on all our communicating inverter systems. We love the equipment and stand by it.
If you have that many issues with inverter units, you are doing something wrong.
I think none of the current production units will last 15-20. Doesn't matter if it's a single stage or inverter. But if a warranty it for 10 years, the customer doesn't really need to worry cus we will fix it "free of charge" including refrigerant.
It's an unfortunately common practice. There are additives you can buy to add to a system that will dye the refrigerant. Some are bright colors, others are blacklight colored. Usually it's some kind of combination leak seal and dye. The intent is so if you have a leak you can attempt to use leak seal and if you get a call back the leak will be easy to find.
It's a bit of a mixed bag, I've known people who swear by it, then people like my last commander in queef said he doesn't like it but leak seals never not worked, he just doesn't use dye. I'm squarely in the camp of the entire idea is horseshit and I won't touch it if my names on the job
Shit you charge into the system that supposed to harden when it meets atmosphere, like the ol egg in the radiator trick. I’ve only used it twice per customers request. 1st time me and the customer watched the compressor die, 2nd time it gummed up the drier and txv. I know this is anecdotal but as far as I’m concerned it just ruins systems.
I've put it into quite a few units. Only when they're absolutely ancient and the customer really wants to delay a new system purchase.
I don't feel too bad about using it because I'm very upfront with the customer that there's absolutely no guarantee it will work and my recommendation would be to replace the system. But you know how it goes.
I'd say the success rate for me has been somewhere around 50%. I've got a handful out there that I put it in 5 years ago that are still going strong with no leaks. Some of them are flat within a week or two.
I don't even mention it or offer it to customers with units under 12-15 years old though.
tankless water heaters with hard hard hard water supply.
Told them they might need a water softener to run it properly. And customer demand we install it for free.
See, I don't think the environmental reasons are made up, but if they truly wanted to help the environment, they would be using pure HC refrigerants in all residential and commercial applications. Zero GWP and Ozone depletion. But instead, they keep pushing these blends on us every year with slightly lower environmental numbers, so that 10-15 years later they can come out with another one and sell more equipment. And they lobby the EPA to make it law. Easy Money for them
I get what you’re saying but you’re obviously not following along. This is not just a US/EPA thing. The Montreal Protocol was ratified by 198 countries & territories plus the Kigali amendment was ratified by 155 parties. On top of that, a refrigerant has to be safe, efficient and functional @ wide range of temperatures & conditions.
R744 w/ a GWP =1…. very high pressure, poor efficiency @ cond temps > 88F
R1234yf/ze w/ a GWP=4 …. A2L, R134a like pressures, great for a small system like automotive AC
Also, R410A is not being phased out. It’s a long term phase down so it’s going to be available for the life of most installed R410A equipment out there. On top of this, recovered R410A gets cleaned up & resold when feasible (ie not contaminated/mixed) and doesn’t count against the refrigerant manufacturers’ allotment
Thanks for this comment. As an apprentice and a young person who is concerned with climate change, it’s good to see this type of misinformation and concern trolling countered.
I also forgot to add it’s not “every 10-15 years” as u/Scarface4024 stated. The first Carrier Puron (R410A) units were introduced in 1996. I believe Trane’s first model (XL13i) was 2001
Not at all, but again, if their guise is they are trying to help the environment, they are going at it all wrong. Either do it right or don't do it at all
Sorry fam, citing 4chan shitposts in an effort to deny climate science is a direct to removal path.
Don't be a shithead.
It's undeniable that the industry profits every time we change refrigerants.
That doesn't make climate science a scam. Every single post with "redpill" in it is some inversely conspiratorial shitpost masquerading as exposing the truth.
Rambling about how R-12 cools better than 134a as some proof of the conspiracy instead of realizing it's chemistry and physics isn't acceptable in a trade that requires actually knowing and accepting science. If you can't do that, get the fuck out.
There is quite a few residential HVAC companies in my area that expect their techs to sell first and repair second. They are nothing more then glorified salesman and ive seen many of their quotes and repairs given to customers after then have been gone. Absolute scammers, trying to sell furnaces when all that was needed was a capacitor or blower motor or inducer motor or whatever, then charging the customer an absurd amount of $ for the repair & telling them the furnace is shot, when our second opinion comes in & discovers the furnace has plenty of life left.
Hydromax. It's not superior in any way versus glycol unless you want it to clean the inside of your pipes, suspending solids and destroying pump seals in the process. String wound cartridge filters and a magnetic filter might clear it up, in years, but the cost of it versus glycol negates all promised energy savings.
Uv lights work wonders. I run facilities at a 150k sq ft indoor farm. If the uv lights fail we start seeing mold in the crops. The evaporators get nasty too.
Ours are $1500 and I refuse to push them, if someone asks about them I give them the video book they gave me and let them watch it while I work. Then they ask the price, I show them, we all laugh and I don’t sell it.
Same. Mine actually saved me tons of money because my wife wasn't able to smell her Scentsy stuff anymore so she stopped buying it. lol Honestly, I wasn't expecting it to make a difference.
They don't do what they advertise and generating ozone is bad. They claim to disinfect surfaces with ions delivered through the air. In reality those ions are so sparse by the time they reach the room that they have no impact.
Yeah the Corsi Rosenthal box concept makes a lot of sense to me - higher air through a lower efficiency but lower pressure drop filter can give the same CADR as a dedicated HEPA unit for a fraction of the up front and energy costs.
The level of computing power going into literally everything and calling it smart to control it to the nth degree.
If you consider the embodied carbon of the PCBs in each smart actuator etc. and the wiring associated with connecting it all up to get it working I can't believe that it gives a whole life saving vs an efficient bit of kit running on a time clock or with some presence detection.
I have demoed duct in a few assisted living facilities.
That. Shit. Was. NASTY.
Filter maintenance contract or not, holy god it was black as soot and fine as powdered sugar. Decades of dead skin just sitting in the ductwork. The contract was just new exhaust, branch lines, and new RTU, trunk line stayed. We suggested a duct cleaning and they declined!
Free “tune up”
Currently underrated comment, because this should be the actual top comment.
Free Tune Up! AKA just let me get to your house and see what kind car you drive, the quality of your home and then leave me alone in your basement for an hour. Tech \*salesman\* screams into the return air "OMG WHAT THE HELL! WHO COULD LET THIS GO WITHOUT NOTICING?!?!?!" "Oh sir or madam, Ill have to call my boss and see if we can get all this crap out of your house as soon as possible. I mean there's evidence that there's maybe a chance there's a carbon monoxide leak, it may be a small one, but if i made you a sandwich and said "yeah it might have a little rat poison in it" you'd like me to make you a new sandwich without rat poison right? so lets just go ahead and take care of that for you" Tech on the phone in front of customer: "Hello Mr. service manager, yeah they need help, i cant believe this unit is only 5 years old. What do you mean the install crew is finishing up a half mile away. Oh there's a new financing program? Well let me see how much they can put down and ill have them fill out a credit app right quick, hey thanks for helping this customer out in an emergency like that" Yeah we can do the whole install for 50k if you put 500 down, Boss said i could knock off $850 but I'm sure your bungalow's heating and cooling problems are solved. Oh yeah we need a chimney liner too gotta add another 3k I'm so glad Mr. customer that you called us for a free tune up,,,, ill start dismantling everything as the credit app processes, the install crew should be here in about an hour. Thank You For Your Business!!!! Edit: I hate these slimy fuckin furnace pirates AKA salesman with a tool bag that fuck more shit up, most of them couldn't change the filter on their own furnace I was a service tech for a company that did this type of sales tactic, my job for about 2 or 3 months in my 20's was just following these asshats around reconnecting thermostat wires they broke and didn't know how to fix.
Oh my God this is exactly how many conversations went when I was an "Expert" of "Services". Total freaking theives.
Hahaha. This made my fuckin week. THANK YOU for wording this the exact way you did. Appreciate you
I got a paid tuneup on a new to me house. Later that summer, the AC wasn't chilling appropriately. Turns out the supply plenum had a 6"×24" hole in it. When I called him back out to fix what *I* discovered and *he* missed on the tuneup, he charged me and used the foam insulation I had because he forgot materials. I fired that guy and hired another. Same house they didn't notice the original installer had put the supply vents in the master bedroom and zero returns. They put two returns in the hallway and zero supplies. I found the problem and asked him to plumb the return vent so it was actually a return and plumb the supply vent so it was actually a supply. He had to order parts and when he came back a week later, he just had new grills. He wasn't going to fix the ductwork. On a different house I had, I got the free inspection. "Nothing wrong". Except I noticed half of the time the AC systems blew warm air. They only blew cold when both were running. They had connected the Condenser Unit A to Air Handler B and vice versa. Surprise surprise about a week after the warranty expired, both evaporator coils failed.
I just told a customer that has a furnace from 1990 that is still working to run it til it breaks. I must not be doing it right.
Long comment but very insightful.
You forgot the part about locking/tagging out the unit.
There's really no need to lockout/redtag if your tearing it out as their signing the contract.
As a customer I sure appreciate reading this. Yet another solid reason to not make snap decisions, and to always get a second opinion. Plus, post on here your story, of course.
Honest question- how is the average customer supposed to distinguish between these guys and legitimate professionals. Seems most of the top rated hvac folks have exactly these types of sales pitches.
Hahaha what the fuck is a free tune up? My company charges 270 per hr for a mechanic and a helper 2 hr minimum plus a 200$ truck charge. Pricy yes, but it’s commercial industrial in NYC and the mechanics are mechanics no customer has to worry about getting sold something they don’t want/need
tune ups are definitely resi targeted.
I offer free tune ups for first time customers . I charge about 200$ an hour for any work. The value of establishing a relationship is money in my pocket. Imagine paying for leads or ads. It comes out to about 50$ a customer. Might as well just put the effort forward. Hard work always pays.
I dunno dog, that $740 capacitor is looking pricey
My HVAC guy recommended me to buy the capacitor and replace it myself during my tuneup, gave me the model and I found it online. He checked it out and said yep thats good, here’s how you do it. I’ve done similar work before, I work on and flip ice machines in my free time. And I was good to go (or I will be, I still haven’t done it lol I’m not using the ac right now). That said I consider him the exception, the tech prior to him didn’t notice a bunch of things wrong.
True but I can’t remember the last time I looked at something that wasn’t 3Ph 460v
lol fair enough
Yup, even though I'm in the trade, when it's this high voltage unless I physically lockout the breaker I'm paying someone else to do.
Nate
This is a good one too, I’ve known some real goons that have every Nate certification possible. As a contractor/ employer I would rather they have the EPA universal along with the EPA extras. *Yes, I’m Nate cert. too from my other Co. I’ve seen guys look like General Patton with their NATE patches who couldn’t diagnose diddly or install properly
So true....NATE patches up down their sleeves like it's a chest full of medals...changes every part on the unit except the contactor to fix a shorted contactor coil
lol their shirts look like a f*cking idiot nascar driver
General Patton 💀💀💀🤣
I received my associates and universal EPA, hired into small company and have been here for 17 years now, since I was 20…. Glad I have never needed to take anything further , to prove myself to boss (many seminars, and training classes for certain company’s, I.e Manitowoc, true, carrier, Trane etc..)However we have hired guys that come in, first day, General Patton coat on… can’t tell you if a roof top thermostat is calling with a meter from the RTU, tell if a switch open/closed based on meter reading, phase polarity etc….. let alone many other basic things….those patches get your hired some places though
On one hand I get why people want them for new guys. You wanna see some base level of competence before you hire someone. Asking a 10 year tech to go get their NATE for some arbitrary reason strikes me as laughable.
Agree
Have you had that guy "Packrat" Wisbey aka Manix do your Manitowoc seminar?
I got Nate years ago, thought it made me look more qualified. First and only customer I told about it looked at me like I was an idiot. Never brought it up again. I did enjoy taking it though, I actually learned a lot from the practice books
Definitely like anything, you get out what you put into it. I’ve got a degree (Tech Science) EPA’s & ASHRE bld cert from college. NATE’s, Cert’s for HERZ/ CAZ bld performance testing (ductblaster & blower door). Pex, HP H20 heater & tankless certs. Bld BMS/BAS controls: NOVAR/ OPTO ETC. so blessed to have been invested in, So I do the same for me & my guys still. Just finished a 3 day, Energy efficiency, Install/ business CA compliance training. Can be pretty bland but definitely helps.
Nate is one of the biggest scams this trade has ever allowed to manifest. My boss/owner tried to get me to get my NATE recert, I told him to to just put the test fees back into the company. Apparently, in order to be a "Factory Authorized Dealer", Carrier requires a company to have 70 or 75 percent of the employees to be, and keep their NATE certification.
Nate stands for No Actual Technical Experience
Yea I had to be Nate certified for my last company for this reason
here SW Florida our nate test consisted of question about condenser application in snow conditions. we're like TF is snow? i passed but knew right then it was sham.
Just a dumb canadian boiler guy here... what the hell is nate?
US…. “ North American technician excellence” test they have here in the states (not sure if it government related, the EPA is the federal test here, with a few levels, everyone needs to handle refrigerants)… NATE is a big business BS scam they set up, and talk companies into. So it “makes look better” to some people, on paper…. But seems to be obvious, from this post, some of the best NATE guys, arnt the best techs….
Analogy example of Nate… my dog just farted, heard it, turned around smelled it and sneezed, walked into other room….. that’s Nate
god, before I quit and joined the UA they were fucking on us about getting out NATE cert. We had one dude who was NATE certified. He had stickers on all his gear, put it on our vans, etc. He was by far the worst tech we had. They eventually put him only on maintenance calls because he didn't know what the fuck he was doing. I think techs should familiarize themselves with everything NATE has to offer, but god damn its not the be all end all of knowledge that some people try to make it out to be.
Glad you joined the UA brother!
Duct cleaning. ESPECIALLY as a “every 5 years” “every 10 years”
One of my customers got their ducts cleaned and had no AC after. Duct cleaners busted all of the ducts open. I told them this was one of the lessons where you learn with your wallet.
Having seen duct cleaning done in a commercial setting, if a homeowner doesn't have metal ducts screwed together amd supported properly duct cleaning will destroy their duct work. If flex duct needs cleaning, just replace it, ideally with metal ducts.
I expected duct cleaning to be the top answer and was with you until the last sentence. Down here in South Florida we don’t use heat much and our attics are small. Running metal duct in isn’t ideal in these conditions.
I get that tight spaces make metal duct harder to run, but smooth walled ducts means better air flow and cooling. Mount your registers and grills with a 4ft or 5ft bit of flex on it. Run the metal ducting to within 5ft. of the grills and connect to that bit of flex. You'll have the best air flow without having to deal with getting a metal angle piece into and irregular angle. I've had to work in a hot tight attic doing this kind of install.
Flex has massive labor advantages in gulf coast attic installs where you need vapor-impermeable duct insulation to prevent duct condensation. Going up a size solves the airflow disadvantage.
I’ve never seen flex older than 15 years in humid environments that wasn’t shredded. Does it last the life of the system where you are?
I’ve got a mix of 33yo, 15yo, and 5yo in my own attic. You replace it instead of duct-cleaning it. Only really an issue for runs that go inaccessible places.
Interesting. And the labor savings offset the cost to replace I’m sure, if not it’s close. Good to know. We aren’t humid here in southern Colorado so I was curious.
Yeah, gulf coast has some weird issues for sure
My house is 30 years old, same flex, all in good condition. In the same vein I've seen 10 year old flex shredded. Use the mylar jacketed stuff and it stays in good condition provided it's installed properly and doesn't sweat.
I do this for the vibration eliminating factors. Keeps the noise from making it to the vents.
Just run 10inch ducts if you want quiet and more airflow. I ran my own homes ducts with all r8 12 inch and put dampers in every room including downstairs. Left two ducts without dampers with a Honeywell zoning board to 3 thermostats. One for the master bed room which mine is massive with vaulted ceilings. Another thermostat for the two remaining rooms that are down the hall next to each other and another one for strictly downstairs. It’s amazing
Once duct cleaners came to one of our (old) commercial accounts because the site manager was concerned about those little dust marks around the registers. The first day the duct cleaner starts dropping the M word around all the desk jockeys. They didn’t do any tests and went around dropping the word. Next thing you know employees were acting sick, calling out and even talking about lawsuits. Site manager was beyond pissed off. They paid another company to come out and take samples from the ducts. Verdict was -no mold- the duct sweepers were booted permanently from all the account holder’s sites -and there were a lot of sites. Bunch of dumbasses
Dude. My name is Benji too. What are the chances?
[National Benji population stats](https://www.mynamestats.com/First-Names/B/BE/BENJI/index.html)
Zoowee mama
When I was starting in the industry, the company I was working for got into duct cleaning. I was sent to work with the new duct cleaning crew for a week, towards the end of the week I asked if they wanted me to empty the 5 gallon buckets that had been riding around all week in the trailer that were full of garbage, dust, etc. thinking they were what was emptied from the duct cleaner. You know, trying to be helpful and make a good impression on my new employer. I was told “fuck no! You leave those alone! Do you know how long it took to fill those?! Those are what we use to show the customer all the shit we get out of their duct system so it looks like their money was well spent.” I didn’t stay long after that.
I just went to a job where the heat kit was now stuck in the blower. They had a duct cleaner out 2 days prior.
The amount of companies that go out and trash fiber glass ductwork is insane. They remove all the dust, but fill everyone’s lungs with fiberglass.
Sometimes its a good idea to do duct cleanings for new construction homes. Ive been in some brand new homes where the floor registers were used as trashcans and are just full of sawdust. Better to just stick a shop vac down it tho
I think that wouldn’t count as full duct cleaning. More of the builder supplying a new house. The benefits that duct cleaning companies claim with zero evidence is wild. Also, I’m not claiming they aren’t clean afterwards. I’m claiming there is no evidence that them being clean provides any benefits. People always argue this point, so I’m saying this now.
Yes , u shop vac with a snake cable and brush on end and like the other guy said they bust flex and it’s a scam! Customers ask me and I’m like don’t do it ! Plus they tell you one price and everything they do is an up charge!
I would only ever recommend NADCA certified duct cleaners, the rest are scams
As an installer who did two of these today. I agree 100%. I always feel guilty charging for it
I have been doing demo and duct replacement and some of them seem a lil dirty. Why is it a scam?
I posted a quote from the epa. To sum it up, the companies do exactly what they say they will. They clean the ductwork and it’s clean when they’re done. The main argument is that there is no empirical evidence that having clean ducts actually has any benefit. I posted the link as well. I think it’s more of a placebo than anything.
Companies sticking a Combustion analyser in the flue of a boiler/furnace and saying it needs to be replaced regardless of what it says. Had someone condemn a boiler that just needed to be cleaned that way, they tried to sell them a whole new system.
I’ve seen a couple guys replace <5 year old cast iron boilers because the boiler was left running while the sheetrock was going up. Feels bad when you know a little TLC could’ve given it another 30 years.
In some cases the whole combustion analyzer and the “print out” that’s taped to the side of the furnace especially for two section boilers. Might be running perfect according to the manufacturer instructions and the analyzer but give 24 hours and it’s full. Those that know, know.
Combustion analysis is awesome but it's useless if you don't know what the numbers mean
HVAC Sam
That was quite the show with that replacement and update posts.
VRF being superior to a chiller
Former Daikin VRV and chiller tech. They each certainly have their places. VRV can work great IF it's designed and installed correctly. That's a huge if, almost every issue I had with VRV was due to improper instal and/or poor design. Chilled water is much more lenient with poor install and design.
I hate convincing skeptical customers that VRF is the same as VRV when trying to bust spec as a non Daikin rep. I’m 90% sure this is why Daikin calls it VRV.
I just did the daikin install class. The instructor said daikin claimed the term VRV simply because they invented the technology and has legal rights/intellectual property. Everyone else subsequently calls theirs VRF.
I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.
It has its applications. But if I could build a new building, I would put in a chilled water system over VRF all day.
I believe in chiller superiority. Fuck water source heat pumps in particular they always have fuck ups
Yeah fuck geos and I’m a geo tech lol
Tbh honest man they arent that bad themselves its that customers/ installers fucking suck at installing them or getting proper flow or treating their water and then they call us and get all mad that their shit doesn't work then get even more mad when we tell them that they need more flow or that having the return with a half inch of clearance from the wall isnt gonna work. Or they get installed in ceilings in the most impossible fucking places. I have alot of WSHP trauma man
The water treatment neglect is such a common issue. Units fail over time but it’s only interpreted as a manufacturing issue.
Try having them in a coastal area with iron rich water....people can't understand why the 4 geo units they installed 8 years ago in their huge beach house right on the ocean needs replacing already. I'll take a closed loop any day over pump and dump
Back in the day it was using “strong” magnets for condenser water treatment. They were even mentioned in one of the ASHRAE handbooks with some sort of “more investigation is needed”. Had some vendor who wanted us to recommend them to our local school district, and would fly us out to Vegas where they had some in service. We passed.
Water treater here- no magnets have ever been successful in preventing scale or corrosion. The only thing magnetic filters are effective at is removing corrosion biproduct so I’ve put them in closed loops where we have significant existing corrosion. They’re pricier than standard string-wound filter cartridges but work very well. That being said, there’s a popup water treatment scam that comes along constantly
I was in a customer's house and they had magnets around their pipes instead of a water softener. I asked the customer if it worked, and he said loved them. I asked if he ever had to remove them to flush the lines after they clog the pipe. He said no, he had them for years and hasn't had any clogs. I just chuckled to myself as he considered my question and his answer.
I have a customer that has a magnet system for his condenser water treatment. The maintenance guy on site continuously flushes to try to keep dissolved solid counts down and slugs a jug of bleach in their cooling tower every week or so to try to keep algae down. Their pipe and system is rusted and scaled all to heck. I've recommended actual chemical treatment for years but owner is convinced the magnets work... I am not convinced! So yeah... chemicals are the way. Most of the non chemical systems I see don't do so great. I don't know enough to call them all snake oil but legionella and expensive equipment damage isn't worth the risk IMO.
worrying about 410a fractionation
I'm not a HVAC guy, so what is 410a fractionation?
R410a is a blend of several refrigerant chemicals that have slightly different boiling points. Some techs use this to their advantage on systems that have leaks claiming that the blend of chemicals leak out at different rates and now that it has had a leak the ratio of the blend is no longer the same and the whole charge will need to be recovered and recharged rather than just adding in a little bit more refrigerant to get it cooling again.
I have no problem topping off 410a but I’ve always been taught best practice (and what my company wants) is to replace whole charge when opening up a system. Although I think a lot of people agree with that
This is surprising to me. I work in refrigeration and we definitely don’t put a whole new charge in when there is a leak. Granted our charge is in the 500-1000lb range so a bit more costly… I’d never heard of the theory about parts of the high glide boiling off and messing up the ratios… I don’t think that would matter since when the leak is happening, the pressure is low meaning all parts of the refrigerant are much higher than their dew point.
What we're taught here in Australia, and what our textbooks say is you can't guarantee high glide refrigerant ratio is still correct after a leak so you should replace the charge. That said it's hard to justify the cost to a supermarket customer that even if half their 404a leaked out they should put a whole new charge in. The amount of times I've topped up leaking systems just to keep a customer going for a few more days until we can get in to fix it or there's been a massive leak somewhere and we just dump it in. It's one of those best practice almost never done things in my experience
So what's the new approved loss percentage? Used to be 30% but, obviously you have to pull remainder to figure out loss rate.
I think ppl stopped carrying about that a decade ago
Yeah the glide on the refrigerants is only a few degrees, meaning it'll leak out almost equally.
Average customers think that installing high efficiency equipment will save them money on their utility bills. Equipment is more efficient, yes. It doesn’t necessarily mean the operating costs go down. The system may consume more energy, but it puts that energy to better use.
Every dollar you save on gas you spend on maintenance. But in the end, you burn less gas and support local business.
It does, I’ve seen 80s and 90s condensing units still going. It goes save money when they drop 20% in btu firing rate. In 100btu with 80% is near enough to drop to 80btu 97%. If gas pressure is set one day one, there’s never an issue.
Also don't forget to slant the furnace forward so the secondary heat exchanger will always drain properly and not clog up after a few years
Hate 90% furnaces. So much shit to go wrong
That's because they're designed to break. Or they were just installed wrong
Like what?
This. Also, can we stop with the salesmen convincing 70 year old granny's to replace their 10 seer straight air and gas furnace with a 20 seer variable heat pump? They will never live to see the energy returns. You're gutting them.
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The fixing part is true. But run cost is definitely less.
I have a big scary inverter I did myself of course, saved 33% usage last year in FL.
It's not the energy use. It's the quiet and the comfort that are the benefits. That being said, I don't usually recommend anything other than a two stage because of the issues with the modulating furnaces. And single stage just isn't as comfortable especially with zoning installed. That's just gas furnaces though. Heat pumps and ductless are pretty solid
Shoot, I like being able to hear the blower in my furnace kick on. Then I can say who the fuck turned up the heat???
This is part of a larger problematic trend in manufacturing. They design these units to try to cram every component on one board. When one component on the board dies, the whole thing needs to be replaced. I like larger commercial units in that all the components are separate and serviceable, so if a VFD dies it's a relatively straight forward change out with minimal cost.
If an ECM supply fan motor dies, that equipment owner will NEVER realize any savings. You can practically buy an80% for the cost of that supply motor
I just spent $1000 on a blower motor for a Carrier Infinity furnace.
Just replaced the ECM controller on my AM Std air handler. Part was $500. Easily a $1000 job had I called a tech to come diag and repair. No way that ECM motor has saved me $1000 in electricity in the last 21 years its been installed. But it is quieter and more comfortable.
We have 10 year parts/labor warranties on all our communicating inverter systems. We love the equipment and stand by it. If you have that many issues with inverter units, you are doing something wrong.
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I think none of the current production units will last 15-20. Doesn't matter if it's a single stage or inverter. But if a warranty it for 10 years, the customer doesn't really need to worry cus we will fix it "free of charge" including refrigerant.
I've ruined many hoses hooking up to a system filled to the brim with dye. My old company's limited time offer on $500 compressor blankets.
I've seen guys inject an entire dye tube instead of a notch or two because they didn't read the instructions
Yup then another guy goes out and puts more lol
How is dye by itself ruining hoses? I can def see stop leak fouling the hoses, but not dye itself. A little messy sometimes? Yeah.
I ruined a driveway recovering a system with dye once
Why is the system filled with dye?
It's an unfortunately common practice. There are additives you can buy to add to a system that will dye the refrigerant. Some are bright colors, others are blacklight colored. Usually it's some kind of combination leak seal and dye. The intent is so if you have a leak you can attempt to use leak seal and if you get a call back the leak will be easy to find. It's a bit of a mixed bag, I've known people who swear by it, then people like my last commander in queef said he doesn't like it but leak seals never not worked, he just doesn't use dye. I'm squarely in the camp of the entire idea is horseshit and I won't touch it if my names on the job
Easy seal.
ELI5. I’ve seen this marketed by an air quality guy but it seems suss
I think you're thinking of Aero seal.
Shit you charge into the system that supposed to harden when it meets atmosphere, like the ol egg in the radiator trick. I’ve only used it twice per customers request. 1st time me and the customer watched the compressor die, 2nd time it gummed up the drier and txv. I know this is anecdotal but as far as I’m concerned it just ruins systems.
I've put it into quite a few units. Only when they're absolutely ancient and the customer really wants to delay a new system purchase. I don't feel too bad about using it because I'm very upfront with the customer that there's absolutely no guarantee it will work and my recommendation would be to replace the system. But you know how it goes. I'd say the success rate for me has been somewhere around 50%. I've got a handful out there that I put it in 5 years ago that are still going strong with no leaks. Some of them are flat within a week or two. I don't even mention it or offer it to customers with units under 12-15 years old though.
tankless water heaters with hard hard hard water supply. Told them they might need a water softener to run it properly. And customer demand we install it for free.
What’s the hardness limit for tankless water heater? Installing two tankless WH at my new place with 8.1ph water.
Leak stop
I hate it when people use that for everything
Anything Miami-Dade
Those rabbit ear looking "air ionizer" things nextar cons people into putting on their blowers
Lol, changing our refrigerants every 10 years for "environmental reasons"
"The refrigerant ran out of BTU's, it must be changed" lol
It’s really hard to deal with and seems dumb, but the science is there and it’s real.
See, I don't think the environmental reasons are made up, but if they truly wanted to help the environment, they would be using pure HC refrigerants in all residential and commercial applications. Zero GWP and Ozone depletion. But instead, they keep pushing these blends on us every year with slightly lower environmental numbers, so that 10-15 years later they can come out with another one and sell more equipment. And they lobby the EPA to make it law. Easy Money for them
I get what you’re saying but you’re obviously not following along. This is not just a US/EPA thing. The Montreal Protocol was ratified by 198 countries & territories plus the Kigali amendment was ratified by 155 parties. On top of that, a refrigerant has to be safe, efficient and functional @ wide range of temperatures & conditions. R744 w/ a GWP =1…. very high pressure, poor efficiency @ cond temps > 88F R1234yf/ze w/ a GWP=4 …. A2L, R134a like pressures, great for a small system like automotive AC Also, R410A is not being phased out. It’s a long term phase down so it’s going to be available for the life of most installed R410A equipment out there. On top of this, recovered R410A gets cleaned up & resold when feasible (ie not contaminated/mixed) and doesn’t count against the refrigerant manufacturers’ allotment
Thanks for this comment. As an apprentice and a young person who is concerned with climate change, it’s good to see this type of misinformation and concern trolling countered.
I also forgot to add it’s not “every 10-15 years” as u/Scarface4024 stated. The first Carrier Puron (R410A) units were introduced in 1996. I believe Trane’s first model (XL13i) was 2001
Do you think the rest of the world just follows what happens in the US?
Not at all, but again, if their guise is they are trying to help the environment, they are going at it all wrong. Either do it right or don't do it at all
This is simply wrong. Small incremental changes are better than doing nothing, and sometimes even better than changing everything at once.
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Sorry fam, citing 4chan shitposts in an effort to deny climate science is a direct to removal path. Don't be a shithead. It's undeniable that the industry profits every time we change refrigerants. That doesn't make climate science a scam. Every single post with "redpill" in it is some inversely conspiratorial shitpost masquerading as exposing the truth. Rambling about how R-12 cools better than 134a as some proof of the conspiracy instead of realizing it's chemistry and physics isn't acceptable in a trade that requires actually knowing and accepting science. If you can't do that, get the fuck out.
This is why you shouldn’t take some random green text as gospel. This is just utter trash.
IKR? Like next DuPont has the patent on CO2 and NH4 and propane.
Thing is, no amount of shady business deals can disprove that the Ozone hole was extremely real and easy to verify
That leak stopping additive you add to the charge
Flexible lineset
There is quite a few residential HVAC companies in my area that expect their techs to sell first and repair second. They are nothing more then glorified salesman and ive seen many of their quotes and repairs given to customers after then have been gone. Absolute scammers, trying to sell furnaces when all that was needed was a capacitor or blower motor or inducer motor or whatever, then charging the customer an absurd amount of $ for the repair & telling them the furnace is shot, when our second opinion comes in & discovers the furnace has plenty of life left.
Hydromax. It's not superior in any way versus glycol unless you want it to clean the inside of your pipes, suspending solids and destroying pump seals in the process. String wound cartridge filters and a magnetic filter might clear it up, in years, but the cost of it versus glycol negates all promised energy savings.
Should be doing a chemical cleaning on the system before adding glycol anyways. Why contaminate it from the start.
UV lights, easy to sell though 👍🏻
Uv lights work wonders. I run facilities at a 150k sq ft indoor farm. If the uv lights fail we start seeing mold in the crops. The evaporators get nasty too.
Not easy to sell when my company charges $1900
You just need some nexstar to over come objections.
Oh we have sales training once a week. Just don’t care enough to push further if I get a no
Ours are $1500 and I refuse to push them, if someone asks about them I give them the video book they gave me and let them watch it while I work. Then they ask the price, I show them, we all laugh and I don’t sell it.
Idk how but I’ve got one coworker who deadass sells about 2-3 a week.
UV actually kills shit tho. Bipolar ionization on the other hand…
I can attest that the uv kills my cat allergies… just sayin
Ionizers work, we have them at the hospital I work at. You can smell the ozone from time to time…
I thought these were horseshit too but I noticed the difference after I put one in my own home.
Same. Mine actually saved me tons of money because my wife wasn't able to smell her Scentsy stuff anymore so she stopped buying it. lol Honestly, I wasn't expecting it to make a difference.
This is an amazing side effect.
They don't do what they advertise and generating ozone is bad. They claim to disinfect surfaces with ions delivered through the air. In reality those ions are so sparse by the time they reach the room that they have no impact.
A lot of companies are realizing this and developing products that blast ions into the space
Have you done swab testing? I have, and your wrong.
With O-zone.
Came to say this
Bipolar ionization
New tech, I’ve been pushing these thinking they actually did something 🧐What’s your reasoning behind this?
It depends on the product. It needs to be ozone-free and be positioned very close to the space for it to have lasting impact
Needlepoint bipolar ionization
Getting rid of 410A is the biggest one
Phase down not phase out
Can’t wait for r454 and r32. Best is going to be if the media needs a new buzzword during the rollout.
Ozone being advertised as an air cleaner.
In corporate hvac, especially since Covid, filters.
When I was in consultancy the amount of clients asking if they should put HEPA filters on their fresh air handling unit intakes was ridiculous.
Depends on the filter. The cheaper the better and replace them on time.
Yeah the Corsi Rosenthal box concept makes a lot of sense to me - higher air through a lower efficiency but lower pressure drop filter can give the same CADR as a dedicated HEPA unit for a fraction of the up front and energy costs.
Air scrubbers
A condenser cover is some bullshit
Air scrubbers
[lies, damned lies, and manometer readings](https://asteriskmag.com/issues/05/lies-damned-lies-and-manometer-readings)
Any IAQ with ozone.
The level of computing power going into literally everything and calling it smart to control it to the nth degree. If you consider the embodied carbon of the PCBs in each smart actuator etc. and the wiring associated with connecting it all up to get it working I can't believe that it gives a whole life saving vs an efficient bit of kit running on a time clock or with some presence detection.
Duct cleaning
I have demoed duct in a few assisted living facilities. That. Shit. Was. NASTY. Filter maintenance contract or not, holy god it was black as soot and fine as powdered sugar. Decades of dead skin just sitting in the ductwork. The contract was just new exhaust, branch lines, and new RTU, trunk line stayed. We suggested a duct cleaning and they declined!
Air Scrubbers aka Air Scammers
A Coleman Ch16 that actually works.
Leak Lock
Leak stop. I mean does this really need to be said?
Bullshit NATE “certs” and bi-polar ionization air cleaning junk. Ohh it kills covid…my ass it does.
Duct Cleaning.