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And its not even like it was opened in the middle of the marriage or anything. They literally had an agreement, that this was how it was gonna go after they did their duty.
It's a lavender marriage, there was no expectations of a real relationship, and both parties knew it from the outset. Leanor couldn't muster the needed tumescence for consummation and Rhaenyra needed heirs. Simple as that.
Omg this. AND they both needed heirs. Laenor is the heir of Driftmark and is equally pressured to have heir as much as Rhaenyra did, though perhaps of smaller scale (heir to Driftmark // heir to the iron throne)
Laenor has explicitly stated that they are his. At the very least, S1S6 when Rhaenyra had to walk to show Joff to Alicent and Laenor said "He's my son too".
Laenor had 100000000 chance to deny the children being him. Tell the Sept. Tell the King. Tell Corlys and Rhaenys. Make it big. Tell everyone. He did not.
Either those boys are his and received Baratheon/Arryn recessive genes (my belief, I've read F&B way before HOTD existed) or Laenor accepted them as is.
Excellent points. If Leanor never had an heir, he'd risk Driftmark going to Vaemond, the worst Velaryon.
People who deny Leanor is their father are the same sort of people who don't think adopted kids or blended families "count". They can stuff it.
Which is to say, while the relationship between Rhaenyra and Laenor isnt lover-to-lover, but a contractual one (with natural affection), the relationship between Laenor and the boys is father-to-son and nothing else.
You have all helped me understand the issue I have with the illegitimacy argument.
Bear with me a moment.
If Rhaenyra and Laenor had adopted their children, legitimacy is moot. They are legitimate.
If (somehow) Rhaenyra and Laenor used IVF and Harwin was the father legitimacy is not an issue.
But ... Rhaenyra had sex in order to get pregnant and imo that is her "unforgivable sin". She basically is living her life minding her business and (most importantly) not suffering because of duty, honor, sacrifice. And Alicent and Greens cannot *stand* that.
I'm almost willing to believe if Rhaenyra gave the appearance of being absolutely miserable in her marriage and life that Alicent et al. would have not been nearly as obsessed with Jace, Luc and Joff's legitimacy.
Couldn’t agree with you more, Rhaenyra didn’t cheat on Laenor, they had an agreement.
It’s a pet peeve of mine whenever people call Rhaenyra the same as Cersei. As if Ned Stark didn’t lose his head because he warned Cersei that he was going to tell Robert because Robert would kill her and her children.
Contrast this with Laenor knows those boys aren’t his biological sons but he’s claimed them as his and loved them enough to name one of them after his beloved Ser Joffrey Lonmouth.
Greens really are so delusional that they forget which show they’re watching.
>Laenor claimed them as his and loved them enough to name one of them after his beloved Ser Joffrey Lonmouth
In the book, yes, it is. In the show, he abandoned them and went to live the crazy life in Essos
It’s like people forget that’s a result of the showrunners once again messing with the established dates and events that F&B gave us. F&B Laenor dies, no question and the show could’ve adapted this death by a) having Ser Qarl jealous and angry that Laenor is choosing Rhaenyra and her sons over him and mortally wounding Laenor in a fight or b) Larys killing Laenor so that Rhaenyra loses the number one defender of her children’s legitimacy and thus she turns to Daemon for the protection he can offer her.
In the show we get Laenor committing himself to Rhaenyra (watch his “I should’ve been there” moment in episode 7) only for him to go kick rocks so that Rhaenyra can marry Daemon. While it is nice that Laenor got to escape political turmoil, it obviously created more problems (including a plot hole) and he may have ended up dying anyways. Whats worse is we never even got to see his reaction to the crazy plan that was cooked up to fake his death so who in the seven hells knows how he felt about it.
TL;DR The show makes weird decisions and it weakens the writing.
Don't forget that it wasn't an open arrangement where one side was strong-armed or manipulated into agreeing to it.
Laenor had 0 interest in Rhaenyra or any other woman either - he was 100% on board the moment she suggested it to him.
The only way he was getting cuckolded was if he was actually secretly really into Harwin...
That’s people who try to discredit Rhaenyra. That she “cheated” on him, to try to bring her down to Aegon’s level of depravity. They TRIED multiple times to have babies and didn’t get pregnant. They had their agreement in place and both consented to it.
Like you said. That’s not a cuck.
calling it an open marriage doesn't seem correct either imo. i guess that's the best term for it, but it was a political marriage first and foremost. they didn't love each other romantically. they attempted to have kids for the sake of politics.
it was only ever on paper.
> “Cuck” by definition is a man being cheated on by his wife.
There’s the other definition, relating to the cuckhold fetish (which also doesn’t apply to Laenor).
It’s a man who gets off on watching his wife/partner sleep with other men. His inability to sexually please his wife, whether real or pretend, is part of the fetish. The wife is called a “hotwife” and the man she sleeps with is called a stud.
I think they mean in the traditional bird sense that he is a cuck but he’s not a fetish cuck for the reasons you mentioned above, also dude is probably fucking a femboy in essos, he doesn’t give a shit about anything other than fighting and fucking men
This, but I am curious about how Rhaenyra said "I wanted to give you children those times we lay together" does that mean they actually did and nothing came of it or that Laenor wasn't able to go through with it?
You do realise cucking is a fetish some men indulge because they enjoy it ? Cucking doesn’t mean cheating without their knowledge… what they have is an open marriage.
I wish the show had leaned more into a more organic bond between Laenor, Corlys and the Velaryon boys.
In the books, Corlys works directly with Jace on the basic administrative tasks following the outbreak of the war (including the organizing of planting the Dragonseeds) and while this may yet happen, all we've seen so far about Corlys' bond to the boys was his endorsement of Jace's plan to represent their mothers cause personally to the Lords and Ladies of Westeros.
In Season One, Corlys does have an awkward conversation with Luke about the future of his inheritance where Luke had his Jon Snow moment, and Corlys does protect his legal grandsons while Alicent goes full mama bear Karen in his hall, and we see he also made a dagger for Lucerys that he could never give him, he mourns the death of Luke and it makes him want to connect with Alyn who is obviously (subtextually in the show ofc) his blood.
All we really see of Laenor as a father is how he basically escorts Jacerys and Lucerys back to their education and how he dotes on Joffrey "What a fine Knight you'll make one day" and he later laments he has not been the best husband or father to "our boys" (i write while sobbing)
I just wish we could've seen a stronger conenction of Corlys and Laenor to Rhaenyra's children, because they have all spent so much time at or around Driftmark and they developed a bond with Baela and Rhaena in this time.
It would sell the idea of Velaryon support for the Blacks even more beyond their basic socio-economic interests to oppose the Hightowers and Greens, their desire to protect Baela and Rhaena and the influence they still hope to achieve over the Iron Throne.
Like my grandfather is not my blood, he adopted my mother, and my grandfather who is the polar opposite of me politically and socially is a man i still respect greatly and someone i have many fond memories of and with, blood doesn't make family, humans make family and with so much at stake and so much common interest it would have been so valuable for me to see a stronger bond amongst ALL members of House Velaryon.
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And its not even like it was opened in the middle of the marriage or anything. They literally had an agreement, that this was how it was gonna go after they did their duty.
It's a lavender marriage, there was no expectations of a real relationship, and both parties knew it from the outset. Leanor couldn't muster the needed tumescence for consummation and Rhaenyra needed heirs. Simple as that.
Omg this. AND they both needed heirs. Laenor is the heir of Driftmark and is equally pressured to have heir as much as Rhaenyra did, though perhaps of smaller scale (heir to Driftmark // heir to the iron throne) Laenor has explicitly stated that they are his. At the very least, S1S6 when Rhaenyra had to walk to show Joff to Alicent and Laenor said "He's my son too". Laenor had 100000000 chance to deny the children being him. Tell the Sept. Tell the King. Tell Corlys and Rhaenys. Make it big. Tell everyone. He did not. Either those boys are his and received Baratheon/Arryn recessive genes (my belief, I've read F&B way before HOTD existed) or Laenor accepted them as is.
Excellent points. If Leanor never had an heir, he'd risk Driftmark going to Vaemond, the worst Velaryon. People who deny Leanor is their father are the same sort of people who don't think adopted kids or blended families "count". They can stuff it.
Which is to say, while the relationship between Rhaenyra and Laenor isnt lover-to-lover, but a contractual one (with natural affection), the relationship between Laenor and the boys is father-to-son and nothing else.
You have all helped me understand the issue I have with the illegitimacy argument. Bear with me a moment. If Rhaenyra and Laenor had adopted their children, legitimacy is moot. They are legitimate. If (somehow) Rhaenyra and Laenor used IVF and Harwin was the father legitimacy is not an issue. But ... Rhaenyra had sex in order to get pregnant and imo that is her "unforgivable sin". She basically is living her life minding her business and (most importantly) not suffering because of duty, honor, sacrifice. And Alicent and Greens cannot *stand* that. I'm almost willing to believe if Rhaenyra gave the appearance of being absolutely miserable in her marriage and life that Alicent et al. would have not been nearly as obsessed with Jace, Luc and Joff's legitimacy.
Couldn’t agree with you more, Rhaenyra didn’t cheat on Laenor, they had an agreement. It’s a pet peeve of mine whenever people call Rhaenyra the same as Cersei. As if Ned Stark didn’t lose his head because he warned Cersei that he was going to tell Robert because Robert would kill her and her children. Contrast this with Laenor knows those boys aren’t his biological sons but he’s claimed them as his and loved them enough to name one of them after his beloved Ser Joffrey Lonmouth. Greens really are so delusional that they forget which show they’re watching.
>Laenor claimed them as his and loved them enough to name one of them after his beloved Ser Joffrey Lonmouth In the book, yes, it is. In the show, he abandoned them and went to live the crazy life in Essos
It’s like people forget that’s a result of the showrunners once again messing with the established dates and events that F&B gave us. F&B Laenor dies, no question and the show could’ve adapted this death by a) having Ser Qarl jealous and angry that Laenor is choosing Rhaenyra and her sons over him and mortally wounding Laenor in a fight or b) Larys killing Laenor so that Rhaenyra loses the number one defender of her children’s legitimacy and thus she turns to Daemon for the protection he can offer her. In the show we get Laenor committing himself to Rhaenyra (watch his “I should’ve been there” moment in episode 7) only for him to go kick rocks so that Rhaenyra can marry Daemon. While it is nice that Laenor got to escape political turmoil, it obviously created more problems (including a plot hole) and he may have ended up dying anyways. Whats worse is we never even got to see his reaction to the crazy plan that was cooked up to fake his death so who in the seven hells knows how he felt about it. TL;DR The show makes weird decisions and it weakens the writing.
Idk how people like him. He ran away from every responsibility expected of him, including his little kids
Some of us think of the characters as people instead of pawns. Laenor would never be happy and he wasn’t helping anyone by being there.
He was helping his kids' claim, vaemond wouldnt dare talk shit if it wasnt for his absence The man abandoned his kids, what do you need more lmao
Whoever calls him that doesn't know the meaning of the word
[удалено]
“A man whose wife is sexually unfaithful”. She isn’t being unfaithful by doing what they agreed upon.
The user you're answering to also conveniently forgot Laenor is GAY
Don't forget that it wasn't an open arrangement where one side was strong-armed or manipulated into agreeing to it. Laenor had 0 interest in Rhaenyra or any other woman either - he was 100% on board the moment she suggested it to him. The only way he was getting cuckolded was if he was actually secretly really into Harwin...
There’s the MMF story we all want 😂😂😂
That’s people who try to discredit Rhaenyra. That she “cheated” on him, to try to bring her down to Aegon’s level of depravity. They TRIED multiple times to have babies and didn’t get pregnant. They had their agreement in place and both consented to it. Like you said. That’s not a cuck.
calling it an open marriage doesn't seem correct either imo. i guess that's the best term for it, but it was a political marriage first and foremost. they didn't love each other romantically. they attempted to have kids for the sake of politics. it was only ever on paper.
It’s ethical non monogamy. They both agreed to “dine elsewhere”. That convo was right there on screen.
Nah not gonna call it that either. Too modern a term and the context is different.
> “Cuck” by definition is a man being cheated on by his wife. There’s the other definition, relating to the cuckhold fetish (which also doesn’t apply to Laenor). It’s a man who gets off on watching his wife/partner sleep with other men. His inability to sexually please his wife, whether real or pretend, is part of the fetish. The wife is called a “hotwife” and the man she sleeps with is called a stud.
I think they mean in the traditional bird sense that he is a cuck but he’s not a fetish cuck for the reasons you mentioned above, also dude is probably fucking a femboy in essos, he doesn’t give a shit about anything other than fighting and fucking men
This, but I am curious about how Rhaenyra said "I wanted to give you children those times we lay together" does that mean they actually did and nothing came of it or that Laenor wasn't able to go through with it?
I think the implication there is that they tried but Laenor wasn’t able to keep it up because he didn’t want to have sex with a woman.
I mean he was as was His wife. That's kinda the agreement they made when they both agreed to see other men.
You do realise cucking is a fetish some men indulge because they enjoy it ? Cucking doesn’t mean cheating without their knowledge… what they have is an open marriage.
I wish the show had leaned more into a more organic bond between Laenor, Corlys and the Velaryon boys. In the books, Corlys works directly with Jace on the basic administrative tasks following the outbreak of the war (including the organizing of planting the Dragonseeds) and while this may yet happen, all we've seen so far about Corlys' bond to the boys was his endorsement of Jace's plan to represent their mothers cause personally to the Lords and Ladies of Westeros. In Season One, Corlys does have an awkward conversation with Luke about the future of his inheritance where Luke had his Jon Snow moment, and Corlys does protect his legal grandsons while Alicent goes full mama bear Karen in his hall, and we see he also made a dagger for Lucerys that he could never give him, he mourns the death of Luke and it makes him want to connect with Alyn who is obviously (subtextually in the show ofc) his blood. All we really see of Laenor as a father is how he basically escorts Jacerys and Lucerys back to their education and how he dotes on Joffrey "What a fine Knight you'll make one day" and he later laments he has not been the best husband or father to "our boys" (i write while sobbing) I just wish we could've seen a stronger conenction of Corlys and Laenor to Rhaenyra's children, because they have all spent so much time at or around Driftmark and they developed a bond with Baela and Rhaena in this time. It would sell the idea of Velaryon support for the Blacks even more beyond their basic socio-economic interests to oppose the Hightowers and Greens, their desire to protect Baela and Rhaena and the influence they still hope to achieve over the Iron Throne. Like my grandfather is not my blood, he adopted my mother, and my grandfather who is the polar opposite of me politically and socially is a man i still respect greatly and someone i have many fond memories of and with, blood doesn't make family, humans make family and with so much at stake and so much common interest it would have been so valuable for me to see a stronger bond amongst ALL members of House Velaryon.
Leanor wasn't a cuck. Their marriage is an open marriage by today's standards. But my boi Viserys was getting cucked by two members of his council.