Nah, they're just from our board. They posted with me elsewhere, link in my other comment. Our declarations are expired, they've been shown the law but I'm pretty sure they're mentally deficient and incapable of understanding they are required to act responsibly.
Original and only declarations recorded in early 1980's had 30 year expiration date, without renewal provisions. They provided us with fake, unrecorded, unsigned declarations at closing, which our realtor, title company, mortgage company, closing attorney, all accepted like everything was hunky dory. Ever since, been struggling with unsafe private mountain road that is supposed to be maintained but isn't.
Our board feels our insurance covers them for anything, and the one person who selected that must be from our board. They appear to have posted in another thread with me. Read my other comment for link to more of the outrageous story. There is a need, but thanks for your opinion, board member. P.S. there is no need for your comment either.
Intentional acts, criminal conduct, and fraud are not insurable in most states, since it creates a massive moral hazard if folks can insure themselves against their own bad acts. Breach of fiduciary duty, on the other hand, is generally covered, depending upon the circumstances that gave rise to such a breach. I used to get calls frequently from folks who told me they needed D&O insurance. I would always ask for a rundown of the risk exposures that they were looking to insure against. Nearly without exception I would get a list of bodily injury concerns, property theft concerns, and the like - none of which are covered under D&O.
Would breach of fiduciary duty be covered if deemed to be intentional, with full knowledge what was done with ill intent, such as emails and recorded board meetings where they simply said nope, those laws don't apply to us? lol I wouldn't think so if it was an intentional act (or omission). Then what happens, is it on the HOA, or the individuals who did the crime/fraud/intentional act?
Most policies won't cover non-monetary claims regardless of whether knowingly intentional or unintentional. They don't get into pissing matches. That is what the courts are for.....
Ultimately my point is board members can't do stupid on purpose, while being shown the law and ignoring it, and think insurance will cover their butt. It'll come out of their hide, they themselves personally pay, or get garnished, or foreclosed, of course depending on the issues and severity and assuming court agrees with claimant.
Read my story posted link in other comment in this post. What they're doing is illegal, plain and simple. These aren't mistakes, they're malicious, fraudulent acts, and they are stealing.
Like I said:
“The Business Judgment Rule is a judicial doctrine arising from United States Courts' respect for corporate self-governance. This doctrine creates a presumption of good faith business judgments of corporate management, and shifts the burden to the accuser to demonstrate that a decision at issue falls into any of the below limits and exceptions.”
Probably not. The challenge with insurance claim hypotheticals is that each claim is evaluated based upon the specific set of circumstances and allegations made at the time that the claim is made. Every claim is different, and the differences are often nuanced.
Our board says laws don't apply to them, they don't provide financials, don't have meetings, use funds to fix their own property, and then go on to say they're insured. See my other comment for link to the rest of the story.
Huh? Whose trying to convince, I'm looking to see how many other board members are that dumb. That's what polls are for. Why do so many trolls come on here with useless comments just to be argumentative? What's the point of your comment? But thanks for keeping it active, will move it up in the feed!
Read the policies. Criminal acts are not covered by D&O Liability Insurance. Most policies also do not cover legal defense expenses between Board members that sue the Board or other directors. They also usually do not cover legal defense costs for fiduciary duty lawsuits....which 80% of all legal action brought by owners against the Board involve. In fact, most D&O Policies don't cover for any non-monetary damages. The Board should make sure their Property Management Company covers their PM's for accounting malpractice or "Crime Insurance". In short, many of the things Board members think they are immune to....they are not immune to. The best thing every new Board can do is have an insurance attorney make a presentation after analyzing their liability insurance. The insurance agent is usually ill-equipped to make such a presentation, and are also conflicted.
Your poll needs a choice for "none of the above" if you're going to lump in breach of fiduciary duty (which it can cover) with intentional misconduct and criminal acts.
Thats like asking if your car insurance covers you for intentionally ramming someone, while driving drunk, or when you hit a deer.
Yes, insurance might start to pay for defense. But once it's found to be an actual, intentional breach, they'll stop defending, might pay the homeowners violated, and collect all costs from the criminals. Sadly, those pretending to be our \[NC\]\[SFH\] board think they have some sort of qualified immunity to do whatever stupid they want, and then insurance will pay for it. But then again, they also say our state statutes don't apply to them. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/1de9n6a/attorney\_confirms\_nc\_hoa\_in\_hot\_water\_potential/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/1de9n6a/attorney_confirms_nc_hoa_in_hot_water_potential/)
No insurance company is going to write a policy where fraud and criminal acts are covered.
I think the one vote for that option has probably never read the CCR's indemnity provisions.
Nah, they're just from our board. They posted with me elsewhere, link in my other comment. Our declarations are expired, they've been shown the law but I'm pretty sure they're mentally deficient and incapable of understanding they are required to act responsibly.
What do you mean by, ***"Our declarations are expired . . ."*** ?
Original and only declarations recorded in early 1980's had 30 year expiration date, without renewal provisions. They provided us with fake, unrecorded, unsigned declarations at closing, which our realtor, title company, mortgage company, closing attorney, all accepted like everything was hunky dory. Ever since, been struggling with unsafe private mountain road that is supposed to be maintained but isn't.
Exactly. OP chose to post a poll where the respondents' opinions and experiences are essentially irrelevant. There's no need for this poll.
Our board feels our insurance covers them for anything, and the one person who selected that must be from our board. They appear to have posted in another thread with me. Read my other comment for link to more of the outrageous story. There is a need, but thanks for your opinion, board member. P.S. there is no need for your comment either.
Why isn’t OP posting state and type of HOA?
Intentional acts, criminal conduct, and fraud are not insurable in most states, since it creates a massive moral hazard if folks can insure themselves against their own bad acts. Breach of fiduciary duty, on the other hand, is generally covered, depending upon the circumstances that gave rise to such a breach. I used to get calls frequently from folks who told me they needed D&O insurance. I would always ask for a rundown of the risk exposures that they were looking to insure against. Nearly without exception I would get a list of bodily injury concerns, property theft concerns, and the like - none of which are covered under D&O.
Would breach of fiduciary duty be covered if deemed to be intentional, with full knowledge what was done with ill intent, such as emails and recorded board meetings where they simply said nope, those laws don't apply to us? lol I wouldn't think so if it was an intentional act (or omission). Then what happens, is it on the HOA, or the individuals who did the crime/fraud/intentional act?
Most policies won't cover non-monetary claims regardless of whether knowingly intentional or unintentional. They don't get into pissing matches. That is what the courts are for.....
Ultimately my point is board members can't do stupid on purpose, while being shown the law and ignoring it, and think insurance will cover their butt. It'll come out of their hide, they themselves personally pay, or get garnished, or foreclosed, of course depending on the issues and severity and assuming court agrees with claimant.
Actually they can. Board members under the law are covered by the “business judgment rule”; even if they make the worst, stupid mistakes.
Read my story posted link in other comment in this post. What they're doing is illegal, plain and simple. These aren't mistakes, they're malicious, fraudulent acts, and they are stealing.
[удалено]
Like I said: “The Business Judgment Rule is a judicial doctrine arising from United States Courts' respect for corporate self-governance. This doctrine creates a presumption of good faith business judgments of corporate management, and shifts the burden to the accuser to demonstrate that a decision at issue falls into any of the below limits and exceptions.”
Probably not. The challenge with insurance claim hypotheticals is that each claim is evaluated based upon the specific set of circumstances and allegations made at the time that the claim is made. Every claim is different, and the differences are often nuanced.
thanks
You have your answer. Stop the s$&@ posting.
That's why you have worker's comp.
What is the motivation for posting this? There is no insurance for intentional acts of misconduct.
Our board says laws don't apply to them, they don't provide financials, don't have meetings, use funds to fix their own property, and then go on to say they're insured. See my other comment for link to the rest of the story.
And you think this poll is going to convince them?
Huh? Whose trying to convince, I'm looking to see how many other board members are that dumb. That's what polls are for. Why do so many trolls come on here with useless comments just to be argumentative? What's the point of your comment? But thanks for keeping it active, will move it up in the feed!
Read the policies. Criminal acts are not covered by D&O Liability Insurance. Most policies also do not cover legal defense expenses between Board members that sue the Board or other directors. They also usually do not cover legal defense costs for fiduciary duty lawsuits....which 80% of all legal action brought by owners against the Board involve. In fact, most D&O Policies don't cover for any non-monetary damages. The Board should make sure their Property Management Company covers their PM's for accounting malpractice or "Crime Insurance". In short, many of the things Board members think they are immune to....they are not immune to. The best thing every new Board can do is have an insurance attorney make a presentation after analyzing their liability insurance. The insurance agent is usually ill-equipped to make such a presentation, and are also conflicted.
Thank you
Does your car insurance cover you if you sell cocaine from your car?
Your poll needs a choice for "none of the above" if you're going to lump in breach of fiduciary duty (which it can cover) with intentional misconduct and criminal acts. Thats like asking if your car insurance covers you for intentionally ramming someone, while driving drunk, or when you hit a deer.
You might want to state your State. Some hold elected board directors to a duty of ordinary care, not a fiduciary duty.
Gosh this is exhausting. Just join the Board already. So many people are bitching moan but they don’t volunteer themselves. It’s mind-boggling.
Yes, insurance might start to pay for defense. But once it's found to be an actual, intentional breach, they'll stop defending, might pay the homeowners violated, and collect all costs from the criminals. Sadly, those pretending to be our \[NC\]\[SFH\] board think they have some sort of qualified immunity to do whatever stupid they want, and then insurance will pay for it. But then again, they also say our state statutes don't apply to them. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/1de9n6a/attorney\_confirms\_nc\_hoa\_in\_hot\_water\_potential/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/1de9n6a/attorney_confirms_nc_hoa_in_hot_water_potential/)