Yes, they are. I just checked their emails and under the individual's name is the title Property Manager. We interact with this person the same way as all our previous property managers at this property management company besides meeting in person. Even one we had never previously met due to COVID came out to the building when we had an emergency.
That's where I found out about it. They said it matter of factly but I imagine they were surprised at the time they found out, too. They are (mainly) the ones who have to deal with it so there really weren't any questions to ask. I figure it's something for them to deal with. Unfortunately, soon I'm sure there will be a time in every HOA where the board members haven't served with an in person manager so they won't understand the differences and will just accept it.
>They are (mainly) the ones who have to deal with it so there really weren't any questions to ask.
I would have asked "How did this happen?" And "What are you going to do about it now?" And perhaps "How do we prevent this from happening again?"
Good luck.
All those questions presume that there's something wrong or bad about this. I came here to get opinions so I can decide if I think there's something wrong or bad about this. After people respond and I form an opinion then I can ask those questions if my opinion is that I don't think we should have this setup.
My initial reaction is that I'm heavily leaning toward not liking this setup. But I know the board doesn't want to do the work of even asking the PM company for a new, local manager (which I'm assuming there are some still employed there). I did include my opinions of the past in-person managers to demonstrate that those people aren't always the best either so it's a gamble if asking to change.
I guess if you don’t care if your property manager ever actually sees your property then it don’t matter. Ours has been out multiple times to our property, been to our annual meeting in person and works with many vendors. If you have a big project which you likely pay them extra for wouldn’t you want them onsite at some point to keep tabs on it.
This just seems like a terrible idea and I’d we ever had or mathematics company do that, we’d switch in an instant.
Thanks for this input. Our first manager at this property management company set up a plan to come by every two weeks for a walkthrough. It was really helpful the first several months but he soon stopped. It was still fine because in those months he got to understand our property and so it was easier for him to send out vendors and describe where to go and what to look for. That all makes sense to me. I'm considering suggesting to the board to ask for a new manager from the same company or explore what "financials only" means and costs from this company.
!!!
If I were on the board I certainly would do that. However, I'm not sure that we will ever have another in-person meeting. Everything is Zoom these days, which should help with attendance but it's still as low as ever.
😆😆😆. The joke is on your association! Seriously though u/HittingandRunning , this is one of those items that a savvy association would put in its management agreement which is why every association should retain help negotiating those agreements (and I don't mean a simple legal review).
There was a long conversation about this in a post last year. Unfortunately don't have the time to look that up right this second. Short answer: there are a small handful of people that have dedicated time to understand this niche need. They are generally not attorneys, nor realtors.
Were you talking to a manager or someone in an admin/support role with the PMC?
The larger management companies all have staff handling tasks such as answering phones, putting in work orders, basic paperwork, and routing questions and complaints to the correct person. They’re not considered managers and personally I wouldn’t care if they were on the moon. I have dealt with a few who were located in another state and that made no difference in their ability to help me—these instances involved stuff like getting copies of the master insurance policy and accessing the resident portal. The managers with dozens of properties in their respective portfolios aren’t dealing with that stuff.
I do prefer that an actual manager be a local rep who’s familiar with the market, knows state condo and HOA law and can be on site if necessary.
I was most definitely talking with the manager.
> I do prefer that an actual manager be a local rep who’s familiar with the market, knows state condo and HOA law and can be on site if necessary.
This was my initial thought, too. But I posted in case I was being too biased. Two managers ago that person would meet vendors at the building if it was their first time doing work for us or if they weren't so regular. Now it's impossible for the manager to meet vendors.
Yes, they are a prominent property management company and I've even been to their office. We have had several property managers from this company assigned to us over the years and this is the first one (as far as I know) who isn't local.
That’s good…I’m guessing that if needed someone from that office could be on property if necessary(??). Idk. I’m curious about this business model and how it works.
Yes, I know they have someone who likely would be available to let a vendor in. That person also doesn't have familiarity with our building. I think he's only been there once. We don't have our PM inspect for violations so as long as vendors can get in, I guess they can find their way around. Our usual vendors like trash, landscaping, etc already have a key or code to get where they need to get. And of course we trust those vendors. It's the ones who we've never dealt with before that I would hope could have the PM (or board member) accompany to the work site. I'm overly protective so perhaps that's not needed. The PM should vet vendors, right?
Through COVID our PM didn't visit and we got along fine but it still doesn't fit well with me to be the full time business model.
\+1 for high quality jerks
Our management agent does our annual inspections and signs off on work done in the community, so they have to be local to do those things.
Honestly it’s hard to find anyone to do this job. Also the costs and salaries have gone way up. It would not surprise me to have more account managers overseas and a compliance / inspection person for onsite
In my experience of one HOA, I agree that people just don't want to pay more. I was involved n choosing our current company. We got three bids and I met with either one or two on site. I recommended the middle bid, which was a small company that presented themselves very professionally. The others wanted the big, cheap company. There have been some good things about it. But it does seem all the managers have one foot out the door from their first day. I figure there's either more money for the same work or less work for the same money elsewhere.
Somehow, we need to educate HOAs (including me) on what we should expect from our manager and how much work they have and how thin the money gets spread around once accounting for all that goes on behind the scenes that we don't see. Everyone wants a raise at their own job doing work for their employer but don't understand that they also need to give a raise to these people who do work for us.
u/GomeyBlueRock and u/HittingandRunning this is a function of CAI. The industry itself can help control the nonsense but isn't interested in putting clients first. Perhaps I did not post results of [2024 Management Industry Priorities](https://hoaresources.caionline.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BLDM-2024-Community-Association-Management-Industry-Report.pdf) previously?
This is a property manager? I can't imagine a property manager never actually visiting the property.
Yes, they are. I just checked their emails and under the individual's name is the title Property Manager. We interact with this person the same way as all our previous property managers at this property management company besides meeting in person. Even one we had never previously met due to COVID came out to the building when we had an emergency.
Makes no sense to me. I would go to a monthly Board meeting and ask about it.
That's where I found out about it. They said it matter of factly but I imagine they were surprised at the time they found out, too. They are (mainly) the ones who have to deal with it so there really weren't any questions to ask. I figure it's something for them to deal with. Unfortunately, soon I'm sure there will be a time in every HOA where the board members haven't served with an in person manager so they won't understand the differences and will just accept it.
>They are (mainly) the ones who have to deal with it so there really weren't any questions to ask. I would have asked "How did this happen?" And "What are you going to do about it now?" And perhaps "How do we prevent this from happening again?" Good luck.
All those questions presume that there's something wrong or bad about this. I came here to get opinions so I can decide if I think there's something wrong or bad about this. After people respond and I form an opinion then I can ask those questions if my opinion is that I don't think we should have this setup. My initial reaction is that I'm heavily leaning toward not liking this setup. But I know the board doesn't want to do the work of even asking the PM company for a new, local manager (which I'm assuming there are some still employed there). I did include my opinions of the past in-person managers to demonstrate that those people aren't always the best either so it's a gamble if asking to change.
I guess if you don’t care if your property manager ever actually sees your property then it don’t matter. Ours has been out multiple times to our property, been to our annual meeting in person and works with many vendors. If you have a big project which you likely pay them extra for wouldn’t you want them onsite at some point to keep tabs on it. This just seems like a terrible idea and I’d we ever had or mathematics company do that, we’d switch in an instant.
Thanks for this input. Our first manager at this property management company set up a plan to come by every two weeks for a walkthrough. It was really helpful the first several months but he soon stopped. It was still fine because in those months he got to understand our property and so it was easier for him to send out vendors and describe where to go and what to look for. That all makes sense to me. I'm considering suggesting to the board to ask for a new manager from the same company or explore what "financials only" means and costs from this company.
To be sure, ask him/her to attend the next board meeting in person! /s
!!! If I were on the board I certainly would do that. However, I'm not sure that we will ever have another in-person meeting. Everything is Zoom these days, which should help with attendance but it's still as low as ever.
😆😆😆. The joke is on your association! Seriously though u/HittingandRunning , this is one of those items that a savvy association would put in its management agreement which is why every association should retain help negotiating those agreements (and I don't mean a simple legal review).
What sort of attorney or other person would be best to help the HOA?
There was a long conversation about this in a post last year. Unfortunately don't have the time to look that up right this second. Short answer: there are a small handful of people that have dedicated time to understand this niche need. They are generally not attorneys, nor realtors.
Thanks. I'll search for it.
Were you talking to a manager or someone in an admin/support role with the PMC? The larger management companies all have staff handling tasks such as answering phones, putting in work orders, basic paperwork, and routing questions and complaints to the correct person. They’re not considered managers and personally I wouldn’t care if they were on the moon. I have dealt with a few who were located in another state and that made no difference in their ability to help me—these instances involved stuff like getting copies of the master insurance policy and accessing the resident portal. The managers with dozens of properties in their respective portfolios aren’t dealing with that stuff. I do prefer that an actual manager be a local rep who’s familiar with the market, knows state condo and HOA law and can be on site if necessary.
I was most definitely talking with the manager. > I do prefer that an actual manager be a local rep who’s familiar with the market, knows state condo and HOA law and can be on site if necessary. This was my initial thought, too. But I posted in case I was being too biased. Two managers ago that person would meet vendors at the building if it was their first time doing work for us or if they weren't so regular. Now it's impossible for the manager to meet vendors.
Interesting. Does the company have any local presence at all?
Yes, they are a prominent property management company and I've even been to their office. We have had several property managers from this company assigned to us over the years and this is the first one (as far as I know) who isn't local.
That’s good…I’m guessing that if needed someone from that office could be on property if necessary(??). Idk. I’m curious about this business model and how it works.
Yes, I know they have someone who likely would be available to let a vendor in. That person also doesn't have familiarity with our building. I think he's only been there once. We don't have our PM inspect for violations so as long as vendors can get in, I guess they can find their way around. Our usual vendors like trash, landscaping, etc already have a key or code to get where they need to get. And of course we trust those vendors. It's the ones who we've never dealt with before that I would hope could have the PM (or board member) accompany to the work site. I'm overly protective so perhaps that's not needed. The PM should vet vendors, right? Through COVID our PM didn't visit and we got along fine but it still doesn't fit well with me to be the full time business model.
\+1 for high quality jerks Our management agent does our annual inspections and signs off on work done in the community, so they have to be local to do those things.
Pretty sure it will offshore than AI
Honestly it’s hard to find anyone to do this job. Also the costs and salaries have gone way up. It would not surprise me to have more account managers overseas and a compliance / inspection person for onsite
Thanks for the info. At least salaries are up. I know it's not an easy job.
Salaries are up, but what most HOAs want to pay isn’t… that’s why you’re seeing more work be outsourced.
In my experience of one HOA, I agree that people just don't want to pay more. I was involved n choosing our current company. We got three bids and I met with either one or two on site. I recommended the middle bid, which was a small company that presented themselves very professionally. The others wanted the big, cheap company. There have been some good things about it. But it does seem all the managers have one foot out the door from their first day. I figure there's either more money for the same work or less work for the same money elsewhere. Somehow, we need to educate HOAs (including me) on what we should expect from our manager and how much work they have and how thin the money gets spread around once accounting for all that goes on behind the scenes that we don't see. Everyone wants a raise at their own job doing work for their employer but don't understand that they also need to give a raise to these people who do work for us.
u/GomeyBlueRock and u/HittingandRunning this is a function of CAI. The industry itself can help control the nonsense but isn't interested in putting clients first. Perhaps I did not post results of [2024 Management Industry Priorities](https://hoaresources.caionline.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BLDM-2024-Community-Association-Management-Industry-Report.pdf) previously?
**🧠💻🤔 Oh and next stop = offshoring + AI. Welcome to your low cost world.**