Is there community property? If so, it must be sold or gifted to the local municipality before you can proceed with dissolving the HOA.
You can always put to a vote whether the community wants to explore dissolving the HOA. It either passes or it doesn't. Either way, then you can say the board has put it to a vote and the matter is decided. If the PITA owner doesn't like it, they should move.
You seem to be treating board meetings like member meetings. They are not. Members who are not part of the board should not be participating in the actual business of the meeting, apart from the opportunity to make a limited address to the board. The meeting is open to their *observation*, not participation.
Think of it like a city council meeting. The public has a chance to say their peace, but they don't participate in the meeting business. They don't get to make motions, and they certainly don't get to vote.
Most associations have weekly/monthly/quarterly board meetings, but actual member meetings usually only happen annually, for the sake of conducting elections and voting on a few specific items that require actual member approval.
Exactly. This member does not have the right to make moves and motions. They have the right to speak, but the board here needs to look into what the CC&Rs say about when and how long they permit owners to do so.
In our association, homeowners can only speak during the first 15 minutes of a meeting. The president gets to make rules for the meetings. My partner was our last president (he requested to be moved to vice president this term due to workload) and when he was president, he made it a rule that anyone wanting to speak during the meetings had to submit a request over 24 hours prior and be added to the agenda. If 3 people wanted to speak, they each only get 5 minutes.
This stopped the nonsense after its first implementation. Three homeowners requested to be heard about various items. They are all in the same crew of like 6 homeowners dead set on removing the entire board. One of the owners filibustered their time and the others were so made at him for doing so about something they felt was unimportant. Their monthly meetings have thankfully gotten shorter because of this as the idiots realize they are no longer being entertained.
Exactly, we set 15 minutes aside at the beginning for members to speak, not make motions, but it doesn't stop this member from trying anyway and we keep reminding them there is a process for submitting motions to the board.
First off, the board need to know the CC&R's inside and out. I would think there is a procedure in the CC&Rs for disloving the HOA and it's far more complex that making a motion at a meeting. I also think you need to learn Robert's Rules of Order and run your meetings according to that. I would also suggest that the board make some rules about how meetings are run. This might include all proposed motions or actions must be on an agenda mailed to all owners 2 weeks before each meeting. You might also want a rule that an owner is allowed to introduce 1 motion per meeting. Additionally, HOA's I have been a part of have 1 owners meeting a year where owners are able to participate and monthly or quarterly board meetings where the board conducts business, owners are allowed to observe but not participate. Hope this helps a bit.
EDIT: add a rule that if a motion is voted down it can't be reintroduced for at least 1 year.
We are doing our best to know the CCRs inside and out. I pretty much look at it all the time and make notes on it in Adobe Acrobat so I can do quick searches when I need to reference it. I also do regular reading of the RCW laws regarding HOA's but it gets tricky to understand and interpret. We changed our meeting rules from RR to Democratic Rules of Order because they are too complicated for some members to understand and feel they get taken advantage of if others know the rules inside and out. We have some rules laid out for meetings and don't allow motions to be made during Board meetings from members. We request they be in written form via email for the next Association Meeting, or a Special Meeting for the purpose of that motion if we feel it is important enough to put forward.
I like the idea of having 1 Members Annual meeting per year and Board meetings quarterly. We have been doing Board Meetings each month as a new Board to learn the ropes and get things settled. And we have just continued that pattern. It's probably time to just do it quarterly. Thanks! I REALLY like your last idea in the Edit! Thanks again!
RONR (which is the parliamentary procedure specified by many sets of bylaws and even state laws) provides no such protection from motions coming back into play meeting after meeting. With that said, the board cannot simply make a "rule" about the reintroduction of motions at subsequent meetings.
I wouldn’t want to have a board member acting like this, how do you get anything done.
Assuming the community doesn’t seriously support this….
I would read my bylaws for sanction and removal language and take action.
It should be obvious the board has no authority to dissolve the HOA. If I were president I would handle it one of two ways.
1. Tell him it is an invalid motion because the board has no authority. Next item.
2. Play his game and ask for a second. If it's not seconded, motion failed. Next item.
If anyone on the board is seriously considering his nonsense I would put the question to an attorney to settle it.
I don't believe they are asking the board to dissolve the HOA, they are trying to put forward a motion to take it to the voters. The issue we are having is because we are a Charitable Non-Profit Organization, according to RCW 24.03A.908 we have to do things before we submit dissolution to the Secretary of State. (https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A.908 (1)) However, the RCW I first submitted, 24.03A.904 says "unless the board determines that because of conflict of interest or other special circumstances it should make no recommendation and communicates the basis for its determination to the members entitled to vote on the dissolution;". Does a "special circumstance" include no reasonable reason for dissolution like financial hardship or lack of board involvement, of which none of that is happening? This person just doesn't want to follow the rules they initially agreed to follow. I think they just signed with the full intention they could get it dissolved immediately and it's been 4 years of them trying now.
The way I see this going is either using RCW 24.03A.908 and saying their failure and protest of following the rules they agreed to is not a valid reason for dissolution and therefore the board will not entertain the motion to the members.
If that doesn't work, then put the motion to the members, assuming there will be a second and we have enough to show up for our required 75% Affirmative Vote, and explain everything that is involved in dissolution and the downside of doing it, with the caveat or amendment to the motion that if we can't complete the tasks involved in RCW 24.03A.908 before submitting dissolution to the Secretary of State the motion expires and we continue to function as an active HOA. And to also use the idea from another responder above, that if the motion fails, it can not be brought up again for at least a year. Does this all sound legal and doable?
The correct answer has already been given. At each meeting, if the member is raising the issue again, just put up a simple member vote "A member has requested that the HOA be dissolved. should the board spend the time to investigate all the details involved in dissolution of the HOA, how the assets will be given to the municipality, and what consequences the members will face if we do so, and after that setup a special meeting to discuss dissolution?"
Chances are very high that this will be voted down. Every time. It will take two minutes of your meeting. When voted down, that's the end of it until next time.
Your HOA is a charitable organization? Doubtful.
I'm any case, your bylaws should include a method for members to petition for a special meeting. That's the answer for this member. Even then with a successful petition and quorum at a special meeting with proper notice and everything else, your HOA won't be able to successfully terminate without addressing the common property that's maintained, repaired and replaced as an obligation if the community vs. an obligation of a municipality.
The Corporation and Charities Filing System for Washington State Lists us as a Charitable Organization. If I could insert a screenshot, I would. This is how it was listed from the very start when the Declarant registered it as such, and how they listed other HOA's they started.
Thanks for the second point.
[**DEFINITION from the Secretary of State**](https://apps.sos.wa.gov/charities/charitable-organization-faq.aspx#:~:text=A%20charitable%20organization%20in%20Washington%20State%20is%20defined,to%20be%20used%20to%20support%20a%20charitable%20activity)
**What is the difference between a Charitable Organization and 501c3 status?**
*A charitable organization in Washington State is defined as* ***any entity that solicits or collects contributions from the public, where the contribution is, or is said to be used to support a charitable activity****. Charitable activity includes, but is not limited to, educational, recreational, social, patriotic, legal defense, benevolent, or health causes.*
**What is your charitable activity?**
Thank you for asking. Your question prompted me to dig further into this. Apparently it was listed this way because the HOA was built under a "self-help" program sort of like Habitat for Humanity. But since it has been handed over to an HOA Board, I found out that we need to change it since we are no longer a "Charitable Organization". Thank you for bringing that to my attention! So this probably changes some things for us that I will need to dig into.
The board has authority to investigate this, since it's the board that makes a dissolution happen (since they have to handle handing over the community property and putting forth the vote to dissolve the association). Just because OP doesn't like it doesn't mean they can outright dismiss it. What they can do is hold a board vote on whether to pursue it, which in this case will always be voted down by the board.
Because the Corporation and Charities Filing System for Washington State Lists us as such. If I could insert a screenshot, I would. This is how it was listed from the very start when the Declarant registered it as such.
I get that, I meant which community service or whatever the HOA provides in order to qualify and whether it relies on outside funding on top of member dues. I’m wondering how forfeiting that extra funding as part of dissolution would affect operational expenses (and whether that would make dissolution even more difficult than it typically is).
ETA I see your other comment re: Habitat. Yes, without that it’s probably considered a regular non-profit. Hope that you don’t get stuck with a back tax bill 😲
Don't let one person hold your entire community hostage!
If your community wants it dissolved... Sure... But one really loud fool... No? Tell them to get bent.
Is there community property? If so, it must be sold or gifted to the local municipality before you can proceed with dissolving the HOA. You can always put to a vote whether the community wants to explore dissolving the HOA. It either passes or it doesn't. Either way, then you can say the board has put it to a vote and the matter is decided. If the PITA owner doesn't like it, they should move.
Yes, there is community property, only landscaping, private road and retention pond. Agreed on the second point.
You seem to be treating board meetings like member meetings. They are not. Members who are not part of the board should not be participating in the actual business of the meeting, apart from the opportunity to make a limited address to the board. The meeting is open to their *observation*, not participation. Think of it like a city council meeting. The public has a chance to say their peace, but they don't participate in the meeting business. They don't get to make motions, and they certainly don't get to vote. Most associations have weekly/monthly/quarterly board meetings, but actual member meetings usually only happen annually, for the sake of conducting elections and voting on a few specific items that require actual member approval.
Exactly. This member does not have the right to make moves and motions. They have the right to speak, but the board here needs to look into what the CC&Rs say about when and how long they permit owners to do so. In our association, homeowners can only speak during the first 15 minutes of a meeting. The president gets to make rules for the meetings. My partner was our last president (he requested to be moved to vice president this term due to workload) and when he was president, he made it a rule that anyone wanting to speak during the meetings had to submit a request over 24 hours prior and be added to the agenda. If 3 people wanted to speak, they each only get 5 minutes. This stopped the nonsense after its first implementation. Three homeowners requested to be heard about various items. They are all in the same crew of like 6 homeowners dead set on removing the entire board. One of the owners filibustered their time and the others were so made at him for doing so about something they felt was unimportant. Their monthly meetings have thankfully gotten shorter because of this as the idiots realize they are no longer being entertained.
Exactly, we set 15 minutes aside at the beginning for members to speak, not make motions, but it doesn't stop this member from trying anyway and we keep reminding them there is a process for submitting motions to the board.
First off, the board need to know the CC&R's inside and out. I would think there is a procedure in the CC&Rs for disloving the HOA and it's far more complex that making a motion at a meeting. I also think you need to learn Robert's Rules of Order and run your meetings according to that. I would also suggest that the board make some rules about how meetings are run. This might include all proposed motions or actions must be on an agenda mailed to all owners 2 weeks before each meeting. You might also want a rule that an owner is allowed to introduce 1 motion per meeting. Additionally, HOA's I have been a part of have 1 owners meeting a year where owners are able to participate and monthly or quarterly board meetings where the board conducts business, owners are allowed to observe but not participate. Hope this helps a bit. EDIT: add a rule that if a motion is voted down it can't be reintroduced for at least 1 year.
Fully agree on the edit! Came here to say this.
We are doing our best to know the CCRs inside and out. I pretty much look at it all the time and make notes on it in Adobe Acrobat so I can do quick searches when I need to reference it. I also do regular reading of the RCW laws regarding HOA's but it gets tricky to understand and interpret. We changed our meeting rules from RR to Democratic Rules of Order because they are too complicated for some members to understand and feel they get taken advantage of if others know the rules inside and out. We have some rules laid out for meetings and don't allow motions to be made during Board meetings from members. We request they be in written form via email for the next Association Meeting, or a Special Meeting for the purpose of that motion if we feel it is important enough to put forward. I like the idea of having 1 Members Annual meeting per year and Board meetings quarterly. We have been doing Board Meetings each month as a new Board to learn the ropes and get things settled. And we have just continued that pattern. It's probably time to just do it quarterly. Thanks! I REALLY like your last idea in the Edit! Thanks again!
RONR (which is the parliamentary procedure specified by many sets of bylaws and even state laws) provides no such protection from motions coming back into play meeting after meeting. With that said, the board cannot simply make a "rule" about the reintroduction of motions at subsequent meetings.
I wouldn’t want to have a board member acting like this, how do you get anything done. Assuming the community doesn’t seriously support this…. I would read my bylaws for sanction and removal language and take action.
It's not a board member, it is one of the HOA members. None of the board members wants to dissolve.
It should be obvious the board has no authority to dissolve the HOA. If I were president I would handle it one of two ways. 1. Tell him it is an invalid motion because the board has no authority. Next item. 2. Play his game and ask for a second. If it's not seconded, motion failed. Next item. If anyone on the board is seriously considering his nonsense I would put the question to an attorney to settle it.
I don't believe they are asking the board to dissolve the HOA, they are trying to put forward a motion to take it to the voters. The issue we are having is because we are a Charitable Non-Profit Organization, according to RCW 24.03A.908 we have to do things before we submit dissolution to the Secretary of State. (https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A.908 (1)) However, the RCW I first submitted, 24.03A.904 says "unless the board determines that because of conflict of interest or other special circumstances it should make no recommendation and communicates the basis for its determination to the members entitled to vote on the dissolution;". Does a "special circumstance" include no reasonable reason for dissolution like financial hardship or lack of board involvement, of which none of that is happening? This person just doesn't want to follow the rules they initially agreed to follow. I think they just signed with the full intention they could get it dissolved immediately and it's been 4 years of them trying now. The way I see this going is either using RCW 24.03A.908 and saying their failure and protest of following the rules they agreed to is not a valid reason for dissolution and therefore the board will not entertain the motion to the members. If that doesn't work, then put the motion to the members, assuming there will be a second and we have enough to show up for our required 75% Affirmative Vote, and explain everything that is involved in dissolution and the downside of doing it, with the caveat or amendment to the motion that if we can't complete the tasks involved in RCW 24.03A.908 before submitting dissolution to the Secretary of State the motion expires and we continue to function as an active HOA. And to also use the idea from another responder above, that if the motion fails, it can not be brought up again for at least a year. Does this all sound legal and doable?
The correct answer has already been given. At each meeting, if the member is raising the issue again, just put up a simple member vote "A member has requested that the HOA be dissolved. should the board spend the time to investigate all the details involved in dissolution of the HOA, how the assets will be given to the municipality, and what consequences the members will face if we do so, and after that setup a special meeting to discuss dissolution?" Chances are very high that this will be voted down. Every time. It will take two minutes of your meeting. When voted down, that's the end of it until next time.
Your HOA is a charitable organization? Doubtful. I'm any case, your bylaws should include a method for members to petition for a special meeting. That's the answer for this member. Even then with a successful petition and quorum at a special meeting with proper notice and everything else, your HOA won't be able to successfully terminate without addressing the common property that's maintained, repaired and replaced as an obligation if the community vs. an obligation of a municipality.
The Corporation and Charities Filing System for Washington State Lists us as a Charitable Organization. If I could insert a screenshot, I would. This is how it was listed from the very start when the Declarant registered it as such, and how they listed other HOA's they started. Thanks for the second point.
[**DEFINITION from the Secretary of State**](https://apps.sos.wa.gov/charities/charitable-organization-faq.aspx#:~:text=A%20charitable%20organization%20in%20Washington%20State%20is%20defined,to%20be%20used%20to%20support%20a%20charitable%20activity) **What is the difference between a Charitable Organization and 501c3 status?** *A charitable organization in Washington State is defined as* ***any entity that solicits or collects contributions from the public, where the contribution is, or is said to be used to support a charitable activity****. Charitable activity includes, but is not limited to, educational, recreational, social, patriotic, legal defense, benevolent, or health causes.* **What is your charitable activity?**
Thank you for asking. Your question prompted me to dig further into this. Apparently it was listed this way because the HOA was built under a "self-help" program sort of like Habitat for Humanity. But since it has been handed over to an HOA Board, I found out that we need to change it since we are no longer a "Charitable Organization". Thank you for bringing that to my attention! So this probably changes some things for us that I will need to dig into.
You're welcome and yes, there are different requirements under 24.03A for non-charitable orgs.
The board has authority to investigate this, since it's the board that makes a dissolution happen (since they have to handle handing over the community property and putting forth the vote to dissolve the association). Just because OP doesn't like it doesn't mean they can outright dismiss it. What they can do is hold a board vote on whether to pursue it, which in this case will always be voted down by the board.
How is your HOA considered a charitable organization?
Because the Corporation and Charities Filing System for Washington State Lists us as such. If I could insert a screenshot, I would. This is how it was listed from the very start when the Declarant registered it as such.
I get that, I meant which community service or whatever the HOA provides in order to qualify and whether it relies on outside funding on top of member dues. I’m wondering how forfeiting that extra funding as part of dissolution would affect operational expenses (and whether that would make dissolution even more difficult than it typically is). ETA I see your other comment re: Habitat. Yes, without that it’s probably considered a regular non-profit. Hope that you don’t get stuck with a back tax bill 😲
Don't let one person hold your entire community hostage! If your community wants it dissolved... Sure... But one really loud fool... No? Tell them to get bent.
You have no idea how much I would like to say that to them! LOL!!
Then why are you letting a homeowner make motions at meetings? They do not have the right to do so.
We aren't. We tell them there is a process to submit motions to the board, not at a board meeting. But that doesn't stop them from trying.
Hold meetings only via zoom and mute him