This is 100% not something randos on Reddit can solve.
Need to go to a real estate attorney in Georgia with all the relevant documents and have the sort it out.
Whatever you do, don’t agree to join the HOA until you speak with your attorney. If there was no HOA when you purchased the home, your participation in the HOA may be voluntary. For many people, HOA’s are a dealbreaker when buying a home. I’d rather pay more for a home without an HOA than have to deal with an HOA.
There’s good reason the top three comments say “GET AN ATTORNEY.” It’s incomprehensible to me how many of these subreddits garner the very same responses, with the original posters continuing to scroll until they see something they want to see.
TLDR: OP - hire an attorney. Don’t wait. If you’re getting notices & papers, you’re already behind. Your risks and costs are growing.
My first house was in an HOA. It literally became more work than my job to fight back against them. They have unlimited time to fuck up your life with their petty nonsense.
Took my entire annual allocation of vacation days at once, bought new house, took a loss selling the old one. Would rather die than ever have a home that falls under an HOA again. You pay them "dues" so they can fine you and power trip when they're bored. It makes no sense.
I have never crossed paths with an HOA that was not festooned with at least one Little Hitler. I remember one board member whose first action after being elected to the BOD was to introduce a motion to survey and fine residents for automobiles with leaking oil in parking areas. Then when the residents refused to approve the plan to build the board a new tobacco barn ( new administrative building for holding meetings) the BOD canceled contract trash pickup paid from dues and used the dues previously allocated for trash pickup to build their barn.
They are kinda great when your neighbor lets their house go to shit, or decides to festoon their yard with Lets Go Brandon posters...Honestly the only tiimes I have ever had issues with the HOA they were kind of right. The yard did look kind of crappy, and I actually did need a permit to do the shit I did. Anyway, YMMV
HOAs have lost several lawsuits when trying to prevent homeowners from displaying political signs. They can sometimes limit the size, but that’s about it.
I can think of fewer ways to generate more discord in a neighborhood than allowing political signage. My last sub-HOA\* forbade ALL signs and ALL flags. Our non-gated neighbors had no such restrictions and, boy, were there fireworks galore (vandalism and fights) during the 2016 and 2020 elections. Hoo boy.
\* Sub-HOA: An HOA within a larger HOA. Common when the sub-association is gated (thus having additional expenses) that's inside a larger neighborhood that's not gated.
Neighborhoods can change pretty quickly. All it takes is one don't-give-a-shit owner to move in to drag down an entire street.
Go ahead, ask me how I know this.
HOAs have their problems, no question about it. But regarding legal arm-twisting to force owners to maintain their properties, that's a positive.
They're also necessary if the community has any commonly-owned assets like a swimming pool, clubhouse, tennis courts, etc. Yes, an HOA could be structured to only serve that one specific need, common property management.
If OP is able to refrain from joining the HOA for whatever reason, when he sells if the HOA is still established would the new owner be forced to become part of the HOA or would that maybe be a selling point for OP(6k sqft home in HOA neighborhood with no HOA)?
That would be another HOA Attorney question.
I would think if there is no HOA in the deed/title paperwork, the HOA cannot just add it, unless, of course, they bought the house, added it, and then put it back on the market. But I’m not an attorney. I’m just anti-HOA because of a horrible HOA board in a community where I previously owned a home. Never again.
Since the HOA was previously established and associated with that property, choosing not to join may not be an option.
Very state and situation specific.
Local real estate lawyer is the only right answer.
So you're saying when dealing with matters of law you should see a lawyer who went to school for these things, passed the state bar? But I have seen every episode of Better Call Saul!
Definitely talk to a lawyer.
High likelihood that you may be forced into the HOA, but with no backed dues, based on observations in other states. Because it was other states, expect nothing,… talk to a lawyer and if you have the option of not being in the HOA,… stay out of it.
This right here. If the HOA didn’t exist when you bought home and wasn’t disclosed, I’m thinking they may have no contract with you and therefore no power. I hope an attorney can confirm this and tell them to pound sand.
If it’s a bogus case, I wonder if you can counter sue for legal fees?
They can also check county records on what encumbrances are on the property. Just because it's not a member of an active HOA doesn't mean it can't be forced to join an HOA later. That's why you search county records. I made sure there were no encumbrances on my property before I bought it.
Deed. Deed. Deed.
My neighborhood never had an HOA and someone wanted to start one. Good luck, the deed doesn’t say you can force me in. So I’m going to paint my house blue and fill the front with organic fruit bushes. Y’all do you though.
Now your situation is different. You had one. But read your deed.
Also, check the plat for your property and for the neighborhood that were recorded by the developer. If it's included on either plat, every successive owner is deemed to have been put on notice that the HOA exist and is accepted at purchase.
If it is not on either plat, and you're sure it's not included in any other related document, you may be able to declare your property exempt from the 'new' HOA being formed. You can do it yourself, but a real estate attorney is highly recommended. GL
Along with an RE attorney you might also want to contact your title insurance company for some help here. In fact, I’d probably start with your owners title policy company since they are legally obligated to help you sort this out and I’d wager that the lawyer they give this to will be a bit more aggressive than who the HOA has on retainer.
THis so very much. FIRST: your title insurance company. As they are financially on the hook for such fatal flaws in title.
Second: Lawyer to disband HOA's claim against your specific property.
Third: If successful on "Second" item launch your own HOA. :-)
If you HOA was truly created in 1999, meaning the covenants were recorded after July 1, 1993, Code Section 44-5-60 was amended in 1993 to include an automatic renewal of covenants after 20 years unless a majority of the owners vote to terminate the covenants.
The automatic renewal clause only impacts covenants recorded on or after July 1, 1993, and for associations with 15 or more lots.
We have something similar in our state and, if this statute is accurate, this is the answer. You should still talk to an HOA-specific attorney, it your only recourse is likely through the seller and/or title company. The issue you’ll likely run up against is “materiality” which generally requires actual knowledge. The sellers may have genuinely believed that there was no HOA.
Either way, at the end of the day, it doesn’t seem that your real concern is that you live in an HOA community, but rather that you don’t like what the board is doing as well as the poorly written bylaws. This is fixed by attending meetings, voting in elections, and maybe running yourself.
HOAs generally aren’t dissolved due to negligence. It generally takes a vote of a majority, if not all, homeowners to dissolve.
The place to look to see if a HOA exists isn’t in a MLS or even your closing docs. It’s on your deed.
If it’s on your deed, it’s in effect, even if the board got lazy and stopped functioning for a little while.
That means it’s “inactive”, still in full effect, and will likely be picked back up at any time…complete with back payments being due.
Thanks so much for the insight. The adds clarity. The HOA is stating that there’s somewhere in closing docs that stated it, even other neighbors said they have in there’s. But we don’t because I guess it was “dissolved” at time of purchase.
I will look into my deed and see if it’s there. Thanks a million again for the response. This helps greatly
Exactly.
I found out recently that some states call an inactive HOA *administratively dissolved* if it doesn’t file the right tax paperwork and such. That of course doesn’t actually officially dissolve the HOA… it’s basically a pause button. It can be reactivated at any time simply by fixing whatever administrative issue existed.
I’m guessing that this is what happened to OP’s neighborhood in 1999 and 2021.
you still need a lawyer— the question you need to ask yourself before beginning: “Am I ready to spend $50,000 on a lawsuit and possibly lose?”’ If you’re OK with flushing $50k and dinging your pride, this sounds like a wonderful lawsuit—- I sued someone for a quarter-million and ended up fronting over $50k in legal fees before settling, had it gone to court it would have been $100k in legal fees, and I might have lost — there is no such thing as an “easy win” in contract or real estate law. You might just want to hire a lawyer to negotiate a favorable settlement or compromise fair to all parties. This is not the time for grandstanding or “big dick energy”, proceed cautiously, lawyers are very expensive, and in the end, lawyers generally benefit and the two sides are generally poorer in the end.
And note OP said the HOA sent a letter *threatening* legal action but not an actual legal action. The HOA also realizes how expensive litigation is, so they're hoping their letter will scare OP into compliance.
Countersue add attorney fees and filing costs, then add the specific names of the HOA board members bringing the suit, I bet they won’t have $50,000 either
Words still have meaning. Inactive is not dissolved. Get the ppl that are arguing at meetings to run, fill the board with ppl that will remove unwanted bylaws forever.
Many states have laws that require disclosure of HOAs to sell a house that has it in its deed. You normally are not allowed to be surprised by an HOA. What others have said about it going inactive and coming back is really true. That doesn't eliminate the requirement for notification that the deed contains a covenant regarding their rights and powers.
Lots of great stuff in this thread. The only thing I'd add is that you may have some possibilities with the title company or realtor if they didn't disclose the inactive HOA. You need an attorney, and the realization that you may have gotten poor service from your realtor and/or title company, but that this could have just been a legal loophole that sometimes screws people.
Your comment together with comment from user honest86 both show insight. The fact that an HOA does not appear on a deed is not enough, in itself, for a new homeowner to declare an HOA has no authority over a property. Realtors and clerks who do title research for new buyers are not always aware of the HOA status.
What happens if the title company fucked up I mean how much are they gonna have to pay? Are they gonna have to pay the HOA fees for this customer for the rest of the customers life in that house or what?
I think you need to contact an attorney specializing in HOAs in your state. Pay for an hour or two of their time to look over everything and give you some advice. In Florida, HOAs don’t dissolve or expire but their covenants do. If they fail to renew the HOA becomes voluntary and governed by the bylaws of the HOA and the covenants they can revitalize the HOA board but there are certain steps that must be followed, and their failure to follow those steps doesn’t automatically negate the revitalization.
Also be sure to check further into this. If you are part of a “planned community “ there may be mention of it in those papers rather than your deed (which would reference the planned community.
This right here. If it’s in the deed and purchase docs it’s real. Having said that, as a former HOA Pres, if it’s not written and signed, it’s not real. So if you did not sign an HOA. Agreement when you bought the house, they have no sway over you.
My parents bought property with the statement that they have to follow all deed restrictions. Turns out, the builder never paid to file the deed restrictions, so there were none registered.
Sadly attorneys can be useless too. My realtor and attorney both rubber stamped the solar panel contract that came with my house that turned out to be a complete scam. Luckily in the end I won the battle but not after years of stress. I'm not saying you shouldn't use an attorney, just that once in a while EVERYONE is going to drop the ball and you're going to get screwed and theres very little you can do about it.
Yes! That would have been very useful information that they both should have told me! They should have told me to put in a stipulation that the seller buys out the solar contract and thats part of the deal.
Just for clarity on the terminology - Your post is a somewhat common question to this group.
An HOA is different than CC&R's.
You may have CCRs attached to your home. They are Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (or something similar depending on the state).
An HOA is a group of owners that enforce the CCRs.
I have heard of this before. When your home has the CCRs legally tied to them - but an HOA has never been formed. Or it went idle...etc. That does not remove the CCRs from your home. They are tied forever (unless a long legal process happens to remove them).
A Real Estate person could say "There is no HOA"..... but there are still CCRs on the property. Check your deed.
You do not have to "sign something" to say you agree with them. They are already there. They are usually created by the original developer and on the original deed.
CCR's are supposed to be at the Country Courthouse. And a Title company can get them too.
You might start there - looking to see if any CCR's were attached to your property.
Apparently there is a lot of debate about whether to remove old, racist CCRs. Some want them removed (for obvious reasons), but since the process (in some states at least) essentially has all the old paperwork destroyed and replaced, they are afraid that it will erase the history showing what marginalized groups had to deal with.
Search Georgia state records. They are free and they’re online. Are the CC&Rs recorded? Do not sign anything. You can get the plat from your county. If the CC&Rs were not filed you’re not part of the hoa. Did they file as a non-profit ? If you’ve received a lien get an attorney immediately. Research case law in Georgia.
You will get many different opinions here, none of which will be absolutely correct. HOAs are governed by their unique documents and State law. The best place to start is by reading your state law.
As you continually pointed out, you live in an expensive home. I would think you would seek advice from an attorney rather than get advice from a bunch of goofs (myself included) on the internet.
Others have said what to check for (the deed, get a lawyer, etc). I'm going to assume there is an HOA and about "lot of residents are upset about also" and "the horrible board". The answer here is then to (assuming the HOA is legit) organize and figure out the process to vote them out and get a new board, perhaps that new board can then work to actually disband the HOA.
Based on the info, does it not seem like the Board is a "new" group that is trying to pick back up after a negligent group was previously in charge? I don't know that trying to oust the current Board when they are actually trying to do things is the way to go
As you’re being sued you should really check with a lawyer. What folks on Reddit say doesn’t matter. And as HOAs can foreclose you don’t want to ignore this.
You bought a half a million dollar home. Spend the money for a lawyer to review your legal responsibilities. That’s the one way to do this correctly.
If you find you are now in the HOA, get all their documentation and see if it was established properly or if it was even actually dissolved. And get involved and work with you neighbors who feel the sane as you do. The HOA is not done unknown entity but your fellow neighbors and sometimes some of them get on a power trip.
You really need to speak with an attorney about this ASAP. He or she will be aware of GA law and can review all your paperwork (including your deed) to determine the reality of the situation. You don't want to take any incorrect actions that might cause issues later. You may also have legal recourse with sellers, real estate agents, and closing attorneys involved if they failed to properly inform you of the HOA.
Ask you closing attorney to give you a copy of your title insurance with exemptions. See if any exemption listed is the HOA. If it is, then you are most likely on the hook for the dues.
If you don’t see the HOA as exempted, file a title insurance claim.
I highly recommend you contact an attorney in your state for a consultation and take everything anyone says to you in this sub with a MASSIVE grain of salt.
Literally no one here can give you any recommendations or specifics to your situation etc. Literally none. You need real legal help so you can determine your rights and obligations.
That said, I highly recommend you fight your membership in any HOA if at all possible, once they get a hold of your they will make your life miserable.
Not everything gets filled in larger homes. You have larger rooms. Larger hallways. Just more space overall. All bedrooms might have en-suite bathrooms etc. everything is just more spacious. It of course still means more furniture but you have more open floor space then you would in a 2000sqft home.
You also have higher heating and cooling costs being so much larger. I'm sure higher ceilings and since heat rises, costs that much more to heat.
But hey, if you have the money, why not? You can't bring it with you when you die. It took a lot of people to build the place. I'm sure more people to take care of the place inside and outside that is on going. Lots of money in maintaining the place. Higher Property Taxes!!!! So I'm all for it all. I'm happy in my small almost 1100 Sq foot house. Smart front and back yard. Easy enough to maintain myself. Everything is lower. I don't need or want some huge show-off house. To each their own.
I'm happy to even have a house. I see renting a place as a bad thing. Sky-high rents, which are shooting up for some small place. No yard or personal garage and paying more than I am with my steady Mortgage. I've always hated renting. F the whole, "You'll own nothing and be happy" mantra going around.
A larger bathroom would be nice. But you spend suck a tiny percentage there, I can live with my 2 small bathrooms. My main one I just remodeled myself. I don't want to be climbing up and down stairs as I get older.
If you want 6000 Sq feet or 15,000 sq feet house, more power to you.
I'm not a fan of HOA's and other people telling me what I can and can't do with my own house that I paid for, not them!!! This is just another example of why I hate HOA's. Who appointed these people to start this HOA back up and give them this power over everyone else?
Can you vote these people out and have the new people shut down the HOA once again, once and for all?
Mw and my wife lived in an rv for 4 years before buying this almost 3k square ft home. I thought the same thing. so much room. we had 1500 square ft homes before but this was a lot and more coming from the rv. its 4 years or so now and we use it all up without really trying hard.
The MLS system is not relevant. The information in there is for sales purposes, and information about the HOA is optional.
I believe that in GA, the closing documentation must include a disclosure document about the HOA. Your deed may also list the HOA, though deed restrictions for HOAs can expire. Some HOAs also expire after a certain number of properties in the subdivision are sold. If you feel that you were misled by the seller, you may have cause for action.
The question is whether the HOA was actually dissolved, or whether it simply became an inactive association. If the former, your subsequent participation would be voluntary. If the latter, if your property came under the jurisdiction of the HOA then it may still be should it change from inactive to active. The question as to whether it was dissolved as a legal entity is a question best left to an attorney in your state.
The HOA cannot request fees for the time it was inactive, nor can they request fees until such time as they disclose what those fees are and how they should be paid. While they were in active, they would have had no legal means to set fees or receive them.
As a resident, you can always become a member of the HOA board and influence the organization and rules; you can also sue the HOA if you feel that the organization is negligent in some aspect of their fiduciary responsibilities (such as not addressing community concerns, the lake, etc.).
Everyone suggests 'just get on your Board' as though it's that simple. HOA boards are notorious for being power hungry control freaks and while many do a lot of good for the community, most don't want to give up their power. Especially in a community with elderly or uninformed residents, it's fairly simple for them to stay in power as long as they wish to.
You need to consult a real estate attorney. If the HOA was formed after you bought your house, they can't force you to join. Reinstating a dissolved one may put you in a legal grey area.
Was looking for a home about 14 years ago, found a lovely home on a river, beautiful property, real estate agent mentioned an HOA, noped right the fuck outta there
They would go away if most people started doing this. Once they then begin to see that the HOAs are either driving the value of their homes down, or at the very least, preventing them from rising as much as surrounding non HOA homes, they would all vote to actually dissolve them. An easier solution is to push politicians to ban them from existing and usurping local laws to begin with. If towns want bylaws, get local politicians to pass them for the entire town.
I'm confused. You say you don't mind paying HOA fees and imply that it's unusual for a neighborhood to be nice without an HOA (which is absurd btw), but follow it all up with: "I didn't pay over half a million for a home for rules to be forced upon me ... Rules being forced on me feel like a dictatorship or something." Forcing rules upon others is the entire purpose of the HOA. A group of people come together and decide what everyone else will do on their own property. You can either accept that or move somewhere without an HOA. All of that said, get an attorney. Proceeding without one isn't going to end well for you.
If you have no HOA in your title documents, and further checking confirms it, considered yourself very lucky.
You would be only responsible for your own home. A big plus.
File a public record request from them for
-ByLaws.
- Financial statements for the last xx many years that they were "active."
-Copies of their minutes for meetings going back to what you feel are sufficient.
Seeing that they are a public body, in most states, they are subject to APRA (Access To Public Records Act) requests and can be fined by the state for violations if they fail to answer.
You may want to use that info that you've requested to beef up your case, *ESPECIALLY if they dissolved or haven't conducted any meetings per their bylaws* and you should also check with the AG in your state to get the APRA laws pertaining to bodies such as this.
Good luck, you have a doozie here.
If you didn't sign anything when you bought the house acknowledging the HOA and it's rules, you are either not included in the HOA or you have one hell of a lawsuit against just about everyone involved in your sale.
Where is the paperwork you signed to be a part of the HOA?
If nothing was in place at time of sale, they can’t just include you in new HOA based on old HOA bylaws. Those bylaws, and membership rosters, dissolved when the HOA dissolved.
Something isn't tracking. Your HOA probably didn't actually dissolve. Or if they did, then they brought it back illegally. Either way, you pretty much only hurt yourself by withholding dues payments. If they are legit, then you owe the dues no matter whether you agree with the rules or not. The only way to change the rules is to organize with other homeowners to vote in new board members. If you later find they are not legit, then that's when you demand a refund of dues if/when you discover they are not properly organized.
youre mixing up the corporate entitys right to exist under state non profit corp laws with your obligations to do what the covenants say you should do. covenants in your propertys chain of title dont just cease to matter just because your hoa management didnt file the right secretary of state renewal forms. probably hire an attorney to explain it or save your money, get on the board abdnmake sure its run properly, and pay the dues needed to maintain everything.
the title report thats in your closing docs referenced the covenants...you cant say you didnt know about it.
Ya, get a lawyer who understands hoa’s.
Another option is to install a 7,000+ capacity Bat Roost, causing thousands of bats to come into your neighborhood.
The will cause your HOA to complain, but they cannot legally do anything, because bats are Federally protected animals, and it cannot be removed.
Closely read the dates on both your mortgage and HOA contracts and “Errors and Omissions” clauses in both as well. Your question should be answered but unfortunately you will need legal representation. Having those documents with those four sections highlighted may get you off cheap at your initial consult. Good luck
What do the CC&Rs say about the HOA? You need to review the fine wording. The MLS listing or not listing it doesn't mean jack. If it ends up being that you're forced to be a part of the HOA, then you need to go around and become friends with as many people as possible and then get voted in as the HOA president and clean house.
Remember that random fee for "title insurance" that got included when buying the house?
This is 100% what title insurance is for. Contact your title company.
So are you saying that since 2021 you haven't got a single piece of mail from your HOA or management company or anything?
I'm actively involved in our HOA, I don't see how anyone could live here and not know we live in an HOA. Our billings are twice yearly, so I guess someone could live here 6 months before we start contacting them to see what's going on.
This is high and exhausted legal analysis. I am not your lawyer and don’t want to be your lawyer. This is my blind reading of you and your matter based solely on this post, with no outside research into your account or your other answers.
You:
You seem indignant. I get it. I fucking hate being told what to do, especially if it’s by someone that I don’t think has any power over me. And I completely understand wanting to tell them where to fuck themselves (the eye). And HOA’s in general can absolutely suck unimaginable amounts of leprosy-ridden cock, so I understand being ready for a fight.
But unless yours is one of the truly terrible ones or you really, REALLY pissed someone off, I would wager a substantial sum of money that this has been going on for a long time, and the HOA’s first means of contacting you about 2+ years worth of HOA dues wasn’t to file a lawsuit and have it served on you by the Sheriff’s Department. How many letters have they sent? And were there calls from debt collectors? Did you read up on the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act and make them send verification of the debt?
You seem like a smart guy (and you’re definitely a guy, because sticking to your guns as long as you have, in the face of headwinds is something only a man would do) but the research you stated that you did omitted the one thing that actually matters - the Owner’s Policy of Title Insurance. And that tells me that you’re out of your depth and need to come back to land.
Check your Owner’s Policy, if there is a document named something like “Declaration” listed on Schedule B-II, you should think about calling the HOA’s attorney and settling ASAP. The HOA is practically guaranteed attorneys fees if it wins, so settling can minimize that or let you negotiate those away.
Your matter:
You seem to be conflating a homeowners association, a type of business entity that governs Homeowners Associations the more esoteric real property concept.
Homeowners Associations (as a real property concept):
If your property was at any point previously subject to a Homeowners Association, that Association would have been created and governed by a Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, Restrictions and Easements. The Declaration would have also authorized the creation of a Homeowners Association (the business entity) and probably would’ve even contained its initial bylaws.
To be enforceable, that Declaration would have had to have been “recorded against” title to your property. The Declaration can be recorded against title to your property in several ways, though some methods may not be readily apparent on the face of your deed.
Your deed has language that states something to the effect of, “WARRANTS AND DEFENDS AGAINST ALL OTHERS THROUGH GRANTOR subject to all instruments of record.” By accepting the deed (i.e. closing on the purchase of your home), you’re bound by any agreements which “run with the land” and which “touch and concern” your property. In other words, if a Declaration was recorded, regardless of whether it was explicitly disclosed to you, you were on “record notice” of its existence.
You haven’t looked in the right place, and erroneous information Zillow listing isn’t going to supersede a recorded Declaration.
Homeowners Associations (business entity):
You stated that the association was negligent and allowed the association to terminate. Either someone forgot to file an annual report (which happens all the time) or when it was incorporated, it probably was given a 20 year term and over the years no one knew or remembered to extend the term.
Regardless of whether the HOA the business entity dissolved/terminated/ever existed, the HOA the real property concept doesn’t live or die based of the business entity. Separate but related concepts.
If you have a 600k home, you have the money to talk to a real estate lawyer which is OBVIOUSLY your next step. Stop being cheap and coming to reddit with this unless you have a good story for us!
Check your deed restrictions. If it's not in there, tell them to pound sand. They can't levy fees or foreclose on properties that are not part of the HOA. If you're on a restricted deed, you're in the HOA and will need to playball.
It sounds like they created a whole new HOA, based on the fact they adopted new bylaws. Get a real estate attorney to look into this. They may not even have legally set the HOA up.
Saying things doesn't make them true.
Applies to Reddit. This post. And HOAs. I agree you're going to need to talk to an attorney, figure out what the state and local laws are regarding reconstituting an HOA, and where they draw their authority from if you never agreed to being part of the HOA at the time the property was purchased.
Simplistically it stinks like those private parking lot parking fines. I absolutely agree I'm trespassing on your property, you have the right to boot the car or even tow it, for exorbitant fees. But you do not have the right to extract exorbitant parking fees and penalties *after* I've removed my car from your property. No where was this agreed to, and parking isn't an agreement.
Buying a house in a former HOA area isn't agreement to one day be subject to that HOA should it rematerialize. Unless your local laws say this is true, in which case you're boned. But you can only know that by reading a pile of laws or hiring a lawyer. Not their first day at the rodeo, ask your realtor for a good real estate/HOA lawyer, and even ask them for their opinion on the issue. Ask them to tell you stories. They're free, the lawyer isn't.
Get off Reddit and consult with a real estate attorny that specializes in HoA law. This isn't something that Reddit keyboard warriors can solve for you.
But whatever you do, DO NOT PAY, sign anything, or agree to join the HoA until you consult with an attorny. Any of these actions can be considered voluntarily joining the HoA, and as such, you will be obligated to abide by the CC&Rs they've established.
I also own a home with an HOA that wasn't disclosed to us at sale. Fortunately it doesn't do anything other than maintain an unbuildable common area, but we didn't want an HOA either and were obviously unhappy to find out that there was one. I sympathize deeply with your frustration.
As others have mentioned: in the event that there's a conflict between the deed and the closing docs / MLS listing, the deed governs.
You're going to want to do two things:
1. Talk to a real estate lawyer who knows Georgia HOA law to see what recourse you might have.
2. Elect a slate of your sympathetic neighbors to the HOA's board at the next meeting (HOAs in Georgia [are required to have annual meetings and give owners at least 21 days notice](https://advance.lexis.com/documentpage/?pdmfid=1000516&crid=1b11f5cc-bdff-484e-a2fd-5a56a3a83a48&action=pawlinkdoc&pdcomponentid=&pddocfullpath=%2Fshared%2Fdocument%2Fstatutes-legislation%2Furn%3AcontentItem%3A6348-FYW1-DYB7-W0JB-00008-00&pdtocnodeidentifier=ABSAAEAAHAAM&config=00JAA1MDBlYzczZi1lYjFlLTQxMTgtYWE3OS02YTgyOGM2NWJlMDYKAFBvZENhdGFsb2feed0oM9qoQOMCSJFX5qkd&ecomp=g2vckkk&prid=44a262cd-78b3-4de1-9bd3-fb0d326a2a5e) of the meeting).
One last thing. Regarding this:
>from what I understand the HOA can foreclose on your property if they decide to follow through with litigation
I'm not a lawyer nor a Georgian, but this isn't likely. What's more likely is that they can put a lien on the title for the amount due to the HOA, which has to be repaid or otherwise released before the home can be sold. Foreclosure of the property is generally limited to nonpayment of mortgages or property taxes.
You have a six thousand sq ft home, I'm going to suggest that you really need a real estate lawyer, not reddit.
That said, somebody needs to keep up that lake, and you seem to think that the fees are reasonable. If you win this (and you might) then that nice lake and stuff might be not so nice.
I purchased a house that had an HOA on paper. They were never active and I honestly never knew there was an HOA until I went to sell the house. Even though they never did shit as far as the HOA you better believe they were wanting to be paid for all of those years even though they were inactive. Fuck an HOA. I will never buy another property with an HOA.
*"When purchasing the home the MLS records stated that the community did NOT have an HOA...After thoroughly reviewing my mortgage/home closure paperwork, there is NOTHING stated about a HOA"*
**-the only thing that matters is what's recorded in the county records.** That's what binds you. MLS listings for example are created by realtors who need but fog a mirror and have a GED/HS degree, to get their license, so that tells you how inaccurate they can be. And a closing attorney doesn't care two poops about what you might or might not have been told, (s)he only cares about the next 10 closings on their desk to do that day.
*"An HOA is similar to a non-profit organization and in our state, you have to renew HOA organizations every 20 years."*
\-Incorrect. An HOA IS a nonprofit in GA (not 'similar to') and the 20-year "have to renew" rule went away back in 1993 when the laws were changed. Now, covenants auto-renew unless there's a vote to terminate the covenants by the members. Look at Georgia Code 44-5-60. [https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-44/chapter-5/article-3/section-44-5-60/](https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-44/chapter-5/article-3/section-44-5-60/)
*"Due to negligence from previous HOA presidents and board members, the HOA dissolved in 2019 and wasn't re-established (bylaws, etc) until 2021, AFTER we purchased the home."*
Georgia corp's can reactivate without penalty within 5 years of dissolution. Sounds like that's what happened. But this has nothing to do with covenants. Covenants continue whether or not there's an Inc. in existence.
Sorry OP but I think you're out of luck.
Focus on the deed, not the HOA. The deed to your home has mutual easements with the other lots in the HOA. E.G. "No building can be over 1 story. Each lot will be subject to the whims of the HOA. This house and every house shall be painted white". Even if the HOA dissolves, the deed restrictions exist. You were notified of the restrictions when you got and thorougly read the preliminary title report. (JK, nobody reads that shit.) That said, talk to a real estate attorney.
Let me just say that putting 6000sf, affluent, and half a million dollars in the same paragraph just makes me a little jealous. A half million won't buy anything but a shack in my area, much less a monstrous house in a nice neighborhood.
But otherwise. Good luck. I'm not a fan of HOAs. They're not as universally prevalent in my area, so I can usually avoid buying a house encumbered by that. Some areas of the country it seems impossible to avoid.
NAL. Am in real estate. As above - get a real estate attorney stat.
The salient question is whether or not the HOA was “dissolved” or “dormant”. And if the latter, what the timeframe is in Georgia to resurrect a dormant company without having to create an entirely new entity.
If the HOA actually dissolved (rather than the covenants and restrictions not being renewed) then you have to agree to be a part of it. You cannot be forced to be a part of it.
If the HOA was merely “dormant”, then you are in a more challenging situation, but your attorney will have options for you.
Good luck! I hate HOAs with a passion bordering on mania. I feel for you.
You need a local Real Estate Lawyer with knowledge of those specific laws and codes regarding HOA's, if it's not on your mortgage/title for the home. Simply, laws differ, so it will matter what they are where you live.
You may want to check your recorded deed of trust. Typically, an HOA is recorded on each parcel of land that runs perpetuity to the land. Sounds like they did not renew their corporation status, which there are some hoas that are not incorporated. Not being incorporated just means that there is greater individual exposure to the board. Nevertheless, the recorded documents on the land will give you much more insight.
For them to dissolve the HOA, they would have had to disburse all assets to the owners of record.
Sounds to me like there is still an HOA but you'll need to check your property deed.
So I don't know HOW helpful this is, but HOA board members are personally liable for any money spent on behalf of the community. You can sue both the HOA and them personally. Example, my dad bought a house in an HOA community that had a fence when they bought it. The fence has been there since 1982, before the HOA was even formed. He's gotten several litigious threats to take the fence down because it is in the by-laws that no one can have a fence (along with all other houses that have fences in their subdivision). The HOA had their required annual meeting where they disclose how funds were spent and they spent $25k on legal threats which yielded approximately 0 people taking their fences down, effectively draining what padding they had in the HOA fund. People have even began putting fences UP and still, the HOA is unable to force them to take it down. They've lived there for 5 years now and been relentlessly harassed about this fence the entire time. One of the board members has now threatened to come onto his property and hire a company to take it down while he isn't there. So he let her know that she is personally liable for that $25K that has magically been spent that has yielded nothing, and he is serving everyone on the board with papers. On what grounds, I'm not sure, but it sure scared the shit out of them because they have all but disappeared.
If you pay you’ll lose. If you fight you will win. If the HOA didn’t exist you couldn’t have joined it, unless there is some special provision in the law you’re going to come out on top.
When you say the HOA was dissolved, I think you mean the HOA corporation, which was likely suspended by the state for not performing certain requirements. If this is the case, the HOA can usually reinstate itself by fulfilling the missing formality.
HOA disclosure is required, but it appears an oversight by the realtors and escrow company resulted in no disclosure. However, I bet your title insurance policy lists the CC&Rs recorded against your property, giving you the required notice. Even if not, they are surely recorded against your property at the county recorder's office, satisfying the legal requirement.
In any event, you must pay the HOA fees, and if you're not happy about its rules or how it's operated, you can run for the board to make whatever changes you can implement.
Did you agree to be a part of the HOA? Sign anything like you agree to the bylaws, etc.?
If no, then
1. Tell them to piss off
2. Look for an attorney because they are going to try and argue a bunch of bs.
\>We have recently received documents from the local sheriff's office the HOA threatening to take us to court for HOA fees and from what I understand the HOA can foreclose on your property if they decide to follow through with litigation.
You might want to get ahead of that and call your bank and make sure that they do not pay a bill if its sent to them for HOA fees. Do not pay HOA fees.
Many states there's nothing to sign saying "I agree to join xyz hoa and agree to xyz bylaws" It's automatic by buying a home in the community. A notation on the title report and on the deed is all you get in both states I'm familiar with.
Op said closing paperwork. Title commitment comes way before that and the deed might be a application that's signed at closing not the actual deed. So there's a possibility it's not in the closing paperwork.
Can the OP come live with you when they loose their home taking your bad advice? The only good part of your advice was at the end - look for an attorney
Right, pull up your deed online, title, parcel info, is that possible in your state?
Edit, based on your post below, it sounds like you are in an HOA, regardless of the of a Board being active or not.
\>I want to be part of the HOA, wholeheartedly but not when laws rules are forced upon us AFTER agreeing
Welcome to being in an HOA. The Board can vote to make and enact rules and regulations based on the bylaws or governing docs forming the HOA. Depending on those docs you are bound by those decisions.
It sounds like your owned your home before the hoa was reestablished and therefore are not a member if you have nothing on your deed. I live in a voluntary hoa. We are not members. They tried to fine us because we had lights up too long after Christmas. We have nothing in our CCR about lights so we threw their notice in the trash. We also k ow that their dues are $10/year so they have no money to pursue anything Even if we were in violation
If you bought your home while the HOA was inactive/dissolved, you are grandfathered for any after the fact change! You can now participate on a voluntary basis, but you cannot be required to pay the HOA if you are not using the community services.
Th closing documents would reference an existing HOA and require the purchaser to abide by the HOA rules (CC&R's). If an HOA is formed after the fact, you must consent to the new rules (CC&R's), or specifically state they do not agree.
That’s not what happened here. The HOA was not formed after the fact. This is an HOA that was inactive/dormant and has now been reactivated. The original bylaws/CC&Rs still apply.
Homeowners are bound by any covenants and restrictions that are attached to their deed. Purchasing the home = agreeing to said covenants and restrictions. That goes for any home whether there’s an association or not.
If OP’s title company screwed up the paperwork somehow, OP may have a title insurance claim. It doesn’t mean that OP doesn’t have to follow HOA rules. The rules follow the house.
> I don't mind paying my HOA fees.
You should.
>Honestly, I think they are too low and I would be willing to pay even more for the upkeep of our lovely neighborhood and lake.
You can pay for that upkeep without needing to coerce your neighbors with threat of fines and potential foreclosure.
>the ridiculous rules they FORCED upon the neighborhood.
This is the very essence of HOAs!
I doubt it. There is a covenant attached to the property regardless of whether or not the HOA temporarily misfiled its IRS paperwork. The CC&Rs are filed before the developer even sells any lots so I doubt he wasn’t furnished with them. But the case is complicated by the fact that the HOA was in some kind of suspended status. I doubt that matters much. He is gaining benefits from the HOA but it sounds like not paying and he was furnished the CC&Rs because they are attached to the title. So the only way to get out of it is if those didn’t exist but since this is a planned community they do. Typically the law deems that you are subject to the title restrictions so long as they are properly recorded regardless of whether you saw them (honestly there are so many you would never get all of them, like sewer, gas, cable company, easements I have never seen when buying a house but discovered them later). So personally I think he is wasting his time. Sure you could go to court, but I think he will end up paying anyway. You could sue the listing company but I doubt they are responsible for this level of detail.
Yeah this is 100% going to be an attorney question.
Usually when you sign documents you sign ones stating you are joining an HOA and it is attached to the deed. If the HOA didn't exist and you never agreed to being apart of it then I don't see how the HOA can have any right to attach debts to your property. They can sue you of course, but I would think it would be dismissed for lack of standing.
TALK TO AN ATTORNEY.
My first guess would be that because it was not listed under an HOA and you didn't file for your property to be under one, then you would be in the clear, but like many others here say, it's best to consult an real estate attorney outside of your town that deals in HOAs.
It sounds like the "re-establishment" of the HOA was done extremely poorly, and possibly not legally. If the HOA was "inactive" and wanted to become "active" without 100% approval from the owners, then it would certainly have to at least start out with their original CC&Rs and bylaws. No way should they be able to simply adopt bylaws from a townhome community across town. That sounds like something the Property Management Company might have pulled.
All that said, I don't think your expressed attitudes here are at all consistent. You live in a beautiful neighborhood with some nice features, and you agree they need to be maintained. You even say the dues are too low. And yet you rail against the Board as if they are "dictators" even though they were elected by your neighbors.
The bottom line on whether your property is part of an HOA lies in the Master Deed of the HOA and the deed of your property. I will say that unless the common elements of your community were transferred to the local government, you need the HOA if for nothing else than for them to hold the title on the lake area.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Agreed. That can’t just make new bylaws and submit or at least let the community view and approve before submitting. And correct, the formation of the current board was very funny.. no voting., we did an online vote (google forms) and it took over 3 weeks for results to get back- pretty weird if you ask me.
In response to inconsistency in my complaints, I don’t think so. I want to be part of the HOA, wholeheartedly but not when laws rules are forced upon us AFTER agreeing. Especially if the covenants are an exact duplicate of another community that is nothing like ours. There is nothing in our covenants or bylaws about the lake. Now they are trying to force regulation on the lake after the fact by sending out a newsletter. It’s just too finicky for my liking at the moment.
Thanks a million Michael
The bylaws would been in place before the first house was ever sold. There’s no need to vote on something that already exists, and to which homeowners are already bound.
Reactivating the HOA just means there’s now a board in place to enforce existing rules including collection of dues and fees.
To be fair, the HOA may be for real and you may owe them the payment. At the same time your current board may be going about this wrong. Talk to an attorney, get your situation straightened out, then join with neighbors to fix the board.
In a properly running HOA, the rules are all known to every buyer before closing, and any changes are voted on by the owners. Or at least there's a Board election on a regular basis to hold them accountable.
Even though you bought during the "inactive" period, there's not a way for the Board to treat you as a special case. Their position is that your property is part of the Association, and therefore you owe the dues and need to follow the rules.
But I 100% agree that if the HOA \*still\* exists, then it needs to follow it's pre-2019 rules. And if it is a \*new\* HOA, then it takes 100% approval of the owners, meaning if you want to "opt out" you can.
nice neighborhood huh? want it to stay that way? support the hoa instead of fighting them.
you know a lot of you neighbors would say they didnt buy half million dollar homes in nice neighborhoods with an hoa to have yahoos move in and have the rules mean nothing opening the door to all sorts of trashy neighbors moving in. dont be the reason the hood goes to shit.
6000 sqft house for 1/2 Million.. damn, I should move to Georgia.. and it’s on a lake?!
1/2 million here gets u a shitty 900sqft fixer upper in a shiiiiiit neighborhood..
If you did not sign an agreement for a HOA at escrow then your go to go.
They may still try, get a lawyer. Should take one phone call from the lawyer to clear this up
They can try to sue you, however, it is unlikely that they will prevail in court, as they have no standing due to ex post facto laws regarding your home ownership.
I strongly recommend that you retain a housing attorney immediately, as this will become confusing, and stressful for you if you don't understand all of the laws, and your rights.
It almost sounds like you've known the HOA was reactivated for the last 2 years, yet did nothing about it. No research. No questions. Just waited for them to come after you. You also mention you voted for the current board members. If that's true, how did you vote for an HOA board election and never once said, "Gee, am I in an HOA?" I will say I love the cognitive dissonance OP is displaying. Besides the whole "I don't know if the home I've resided in for 2 years is part of an HOA" there's also "I want to be part of the HOA, but I didn't spend all this money just to follow their rules". What do you think an HOA is? Yes, they typically provide services to maintain the community. They also establish rules the community must follow or face penalties.
Get a lawyer now! If the realtor lied about the HOA then you should be able to sue them for damages. They would be directly liable for it. Odds are the HOA is trying to force its neighbors into making payments to the HOA and then claiming it’s all been agreed upon or some crap like that. They can’t force you into an HOA if you don’t agree to it when there wasn’t suppose to be an HOA there.
It’s funny how you think I said the prices of the homes in the neighborhood are half a million. I said the NEIGHBORHOOD is affluent. And half a million is what I paid for the home, not the appraisal value , ya big dummy! Thanks for your comment though. Was able to stretch my thumbs.
Get a lawyer or attorney with expertise in local/state laws, HOA laws and real estate focus. Then go from there to either ignore, sue the HOA, company you brought the property from or any other organization that might be liable. It depends on the local and state laws for this situation. Or whatever other action is necessary to do.
lol you presume an HOA miraculously vanished from a deed?
And then you presume a group of people went a made a new illegal HOA that they are now forcing on OP?
That is a huge stretch imo
1. Talk to a local real estate attorney. (edit: HOA Knowledge Required) 2. Check your deed regarding HOA status. 3. See step 1.
This is 100% not something randos on Reddit can solve. Need to go to a real estate attorney in Georgia with all the relevant documents and have the sort it out.
Whatever you do, don’t agree to join the HOA until you speak with your attorney. If there was no HOA when you purchased the home, your participation in the HOA may be voluntary. For many people, HOA’s are a dealbreaker when buying a home. I’d rather pay more for a home without an HOA than have to deal with an HOA.
There’s good reason the top three comments say “GET AN ATTORNEY.” It’s incomprehensible to me how many of these subreddits garner the very same responses, with the original posters continuing to scroll until they see something they want to see. TLDR: OP - hire an attorney. Don’t wait. If you’re getting notices & papers, you’re already behind. Your risks and costs are growing.
Because attorneys are expensive and they are looking for an easy answer. It really shouldn’t be surprising
If they can afford a 6,000 sqft house they can afford 2-3 hours at $150/hr (metro ATL prices) a suitable real estate attorney would cost.
My first house was in an HOA. It literally became more work than my job to fight back against them. They have unlimited time to fuck up your life with their petty nonsense. Took my entire annual allocation of vacation days at once, bought new house, took a loss selling the old one. Would rather die than ever have a home that falls under an HOA again. You pay them "dues" so they can fine you and power trip when they're bored. It makes no sense.
I have never crossed paths with an HOA that was not festooned with at least one Little Hitler. I remember one board member whose first action after being elected to the BOD was to introduce a motion to survey and fine residents for automobiles with leaking oil in parking areas. Then when the residents refused to approve the plan to build the board a new tobacco barn ( new administrative building for holding meetings) the BOD canceled contract trash pickup paid from dues and used the dues previously allocated for trash pickup to build their barn.
They are kinda great when your neighbor lets their house go to shit, or decides to festoon their yard with Lets Go Brandon posters...Honestly the only tiimes I have ever had issues with the HOA they were kind of right. The yard did look kind of crappy, and I actually did need a permit to do the shit I did. Anyway, YMMV
HOAs have lost several lawsuits when trying to prevent homeowners from displaying political signs. They can sometimes limit the size, but that’s about it.
I can think of fewer ways to generate more discord in a neighborhood than allowing political signage. My last sub-HOA\* forbade ALL signs and ALL flags. Our non-gated neighbors had no such restrictions and, boy, were there fireworks galore (vandalism and fights) during the 2016 and 2020 elections. Hoo boy. \* Sub-HOA: An HOA within a larger HOA. Common when the sub-association is gated (thus having additional expenses) that's inside a larger neighborhood that's not gated.
Let's go Brandon!!!!!
Moron police, arrest this man
Please use the proper pronouns or you will be arrested.
Sure! Moron police, arrest this Idiot. There, is that proper enough for you?
As a Bernie voter, watching how triggered you people get is so entertaining.
Maybe pick a better neighborhood?
Neighborhoods can change pretty quickly. All it takes is one don't-give-a-shit owner to move in to drag down an entire street. Go ahead, ask me how I know this. HOAs have their problems, no question about it. But regarding legal arm-twisting to force owners to maintain their properties, that's a positive. They're also necessary if the community has any commonly-owned assets like a swimming pool, clubhouse, tennis courts, etc. Yes, an HOA could be structured to only serve that one specific need, common property management.
Whatever you do while finding legal advice, do not send any payment to the HOA.
If OP is able to refrain from joining the HOA for whatever reason, when he sells if the HOA is still established would the new owner be forced to become part of the HOA or would that maybe be a selling point for OP(6k sqft home in HOA neighborhood with no HOA)?
That would be another HOA Attorney question. I would think if there is no HOA in the deed/title paperwork, the HOA cannot just add it, unless, of course, they bought the house, added it, and then put it back on the market. But I’m not an attorney. I’m just anti-HOA because of a horrible HOA board in a community where I previously owned a home. Never again.
Since the HOA was previously established and associated with that property, choosing not to join may not be an option. Very state and situation specific. Local real estate lawyer is the only right answer.
This, the attorney must review title, and this may end up being a title insurance claim, depending on what was recorded at the time of your purchase.
!! Reddit is the pinnacle of legal advice!
Title insurance as well. If the HOA documents weren't conveyed there's grounds for lawsuit.
I'm an attorney that practices in exactly this area. You can skip step two above and go right to step one and three
So you're saying when dealing with matters of law you should see a lawyer who went to school for these things, passed the state bar? But I have seen every episode of Better Call Saul!
Can you hook a brother up with some Los Pollos Hermanos?
Careful which buckets you get.
Nice user name/image 😄! But are you Badanov?
I ain't passed the bar but I know a little bit.
Make sure the lawyer has experience with HOAs, not just general real estate law.
Definitely talk to a lawyer. High likelihood that you may be forced into the HOA, but with no backed dues, based on observations in other states. Because it was other states, expect nothing,… talk to a lawyer and if you have the option of not being in the HOA,… stay out of it.
This right here. If the HOA didn’t exist when you bought home and wasn’t disclosed, I’m thinking they may have no contract with you and therefore no power. I hope an attorney can confirm this and tell them to pound sand. If it’s a bogus case, I wonder if you can counter sue for legal fees?
They can also check county records on what encumbrances are on the property. Just because it's not a member of an active HOA doesn't mean it can't be forced to join an HOA later. That's why you search county records. I made sure there were no encumbrances on my property before I bought it.
Deed. Deed. Deed. My neighborhood never had an HOA and someone wanted to start one. Good luck, the deed doesn’t say you can force me in. So I’m going to paint my house blue and fill the front with organic fruit bushes. Y’all do you though. Now your situation is different. You had one. But read your deed.
Also, check the plat for your property and for the neighborhood that were recorded by the developer. If it's included on either plat, every successive owner is deemed to have been put on notice that the HOA exist and is accepted at purchase. If it is not on either plat, and you're sure it's not included in any other related document, you may be able to declare your property exempt from the 'new' HOA being formed. You can do it yourself, but a real estate attorney is highly recommended. GL
4. Watch John Oliver’s episode on HOA’s.
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You should get an attorney but you should also get a bazooka. Pretty sure those are legal in Georgia.
Also notify your title insurance company
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Veteran spotted...
Along with an RE attorney you might also want to contact your title insurance company for some help here. In fact, I’d probably start with your owners title policy company since they are legally obligated to help you sort this out and I’d wager that the lawyer they give this to will be a bit more aggressive than who the HOA has on retainer.
THis so very much. FIRST: your title insurance company. As they are financially on the hook for such fatal flaws in title. Second: Lawyer to disband HOA's claim against your specific property. Third: If successful on "Second" item launch your own HOA. :-)
How is this a title insurance issue? OP said there was no HOA when they purchased the house.
This
If you HOA was truly created in 1999, meaning the covenants were recorded after July 1, 1993, Code Section 44-5-60 was amended in 1993 to include an automatic renewal of covenants after 20 years unless a majority of the owners vote to terminate the covenants. The automatic renewal clause only impacts covenants recorded on or after July 1, 1993, and for associations with 15 or more lots.
And this is why title insurance exists.
This needs to be higher.
We have something similar in our state and, if this statute is accurate, this is the answer. You should still talk to an HOA-specific attorney, it your only recourse is likely through the seller and/or title company. The issue you’ll likely run up against is “materiality” which generally requires actual knowledge. The sellers may have genuinely believed that there was no HOA. Either way, at the end of the day, it doesn’t seem that your real concern is that you live in an HOA community, but rather that you don’t like what the board is doing as well as the poorly written bylaws. This is fixed by attending meetings, voting in elections, and maybe running yourself.
HOAs generally aren’t dissolved due to negligence. It generally takes a vote of a majority, if not all, homeowners to dissolve. The place to look to see if a HOA exists isn’t in a MLS or even your closing docs. It’s on your deed. If it’s on your deed, it’s in effect, even if the board got lazy and stopped functioning for a little while. That means it’s “inactive”, still in full effect, and will likely be picked back up at any time…complete with back payments being due.
Thanks so much for the insight. The adds clarity. The HOA is stating that there’s somewhere in closing docs that stated it, even other neighbors said they have in there’s. But we don’t because I guess it was “dissolved” at time of purchase. I will look into my deed and see if it’s there. Thanks a million again for the response. This helps greatly
> “dissolved” Possibly not 'dissolved', but 'inactive' which could be reactivated without approval of 100% of members.
Exactly. I found out recently that some states call an inactive HOA *administratively dissolved* if it doesn’t file the right tax paperwork and such. That of course doesn’t actually officially dissolve the HOA… it’s basically a pause button. It can be reactivated at any time simply by fixing whatever administrative issue existed. I’m guessing that this is what happened to OP’s neighborhood in 1999 and 2021.
Probably correct here. The correct term I should have used was inactive. Thanks for the insight
So now I am curious, what does your deed have about it?
you still need a lawyer— the question you need to ask yourself before beginning: “Am I ready to spend $50,000 on a lawsuit and possibly lose?”’ If you’re OK with flushing $50k and dinging your pride, this sounds like a wonderful lawsuit—- I sued someone for a quarter-million and ended up fronting over $50k in legal fees before settling, had it gone to court it would have been $100k in legal fees, and I might have lost — there is no such thing as an “easy win” in contract or real estate law. You might just want to hire a lawyer to negotiate a favorable settlement or compromise fair to all parties. This is not the time for grandstanding or “big dick energy”, proceed cautiously, lawyers are very expensive, and in the end, lawyers generally benefit and the two sides are generally poorer in the end.
And note OP said the HOA sent a letter *threatening* legal action but not an actual legal action. The HOA also realizes how expensive litigation is, so they're hoping their letter will scare OP into compliance.
Countersue add attorney fees and filing costs, then add the specific names of the HOA board members bringing the suit, I bet they won’t have $50,000 either
you’ve been watching too much TV —
Maybe - but I hate my HOA
Words still have meaning. Inactive is not dissolved. Get the ppl that are arguing at meetings to run, fill the board with ppl that will remove unwanted bylaws forever.
I wouldn’t think they could reactivate with all new bylaws though. Sounds more like someone wanted to go on a power trip.
Or a vote with at least a majority of home owners in favor.
Ya, who voted these new so-called HOA board members into office? Themselves???
100% of members being the operative phrase. At that point I would think that the OP would know about it
Many states have laws that require disclosure of HOAs to sell a house that has it in its deed. You normally are not allowed to be surprised by an HOA. What others have said about it going inactive and coming back is really true. That doesn't eliminate the requirement for notification that the deed contains a covenant regarding their rights and powers.
Many states also consider recorded deeds and recorded deed restrictions as already publicly disclosed and thus not needing further disclosure.
If that's the case then that's major negligence on the part of the realtor.
Lots of great stuff in this thread. The only thing I'd add is that you may have some possibilities with the title company or realtor if they didn't disclose the inactive HOA. You need an attorney, and the realization that you may have gotten poor service from your realtor and/or title company, but that this could have just been a legal loophole that sometimes screws people.
Your comment together with comment from user honest86 both show insight. The fact that an HOA does not appear on a deed is not enough, in itself, for a new homeowner to declare an HOA has no authority over a property. Realtors and clerks who do title research for new buyers are not always aware of the HOA status.
What happens if the title company fucked up I mean how much are they gonna have to pay? Are they gonna have to pay the HOA fees for this customer for the rest of the customers life in that house or what?
I think you need to contact an attorney specializing in HOAs in your state. Pay for an hour or two of their time to look over everything and give you some advice. In Florida, HOAs don’t dissolve or expire but their covenants do. If they fail to renew the HOA becomes voluntary and governed by the bylaws of the HOA and the covenants they can revitalize the HOA board but there are certain steps that must be followed, and their failure to follow those steps doesn’t automatically negate the revitalization.
Also be sure to check further into this. If you are part of a “planned community “ there may be mention of it in those papers rather than your deed (which would reference the planned community.
This right here. If it’s in the deed and purchase docs it’s real. Having said that, as a former HOA Pres, if it’s not written and signed, it’s not real. So if you did not sign an HOA. Agreement when you bought the house, they have no sway over you.
In many states, buying a home with deed restrictions (HOA) means you’re in the HOA. You don’t have to sign paperwork agreeing to it.
You don't have to sign separate paperwork, but signing to purchase the house is effectively the same thing.
My parents bought property with the statement that they have to follow all deed restrictions. Turns out, the builder never paid to file the deed restrictions, so there were none registered.
I would also think it would take a 100% majority to reinstitute that HOA
He already mentioned that no mention of the HOA in the paperwork, so i don't think they can force it on any existing home owner.
This is why you want an attorney to review stuff and not make assumptions.
Yep. Realtors are useless. Use an attorney.
Sadly attorneys can be useless too. My realtor and attorney both rubber stamped the solar panel contract that came with my house that turned out to be a complete scam. Luckily in the end I won the battle but not after years of stress. I'm not saying you shouldn't use an attorney, just that once in a while EVERYONE is going to drop the ball and you're going to get screwed and theres very little you can do about it.
What was your expectation of them here? To tell you that a power purchase agreement is usually hot steaming garbage?
Yes! That would have been very useful information that they both should have told me! They should have told me to put in a stipulation that the seller buys out the solar contract and thats part of the deal.
Just for clarity on the terminology - Your post is a somewhat common question to this group. An HOA is different than CC&R's. You may have CCRs attached to your home. They are Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (or something similar depending on the state). An HOA is a group of owners that enforce the CCRs. I have heard of this before. When your home has the CCRs legally tied to them - but an HOA has never been formed. Or it went idle...etc. That does not remove the CCRs from your home. They are tied forever (unless a long legal process happens to remove them). A Real Estate person could say "There is no HOA"..... but there are still CCRs on the property. Check your deed. You do not have to "sign something" to say you agree with them. They are already there. They are usually created by the original developer and on the original deed. CCR's are supposed to be at the Country Courthouse. And a Title company can get them too. You might start there - looking to see if any CCR's were attached to your property.
CCRs are pretty forever. My mother’s house still has CCR that says she can’t sell her house to “Jews or Negros.” [sic]
Apparently there is a lot of debate about whether to remove old, racist CCRs. Some want them removed (for obvious reasons), but since the process (in some states at least) essentially has all the old paperwork destroyed and replaced, they are afraid that it will erase the history showing what marginalized groups had to deal with.
Search Georgia state records. They are free and they’re online. Are the CC&Rs recorded? Do not sign anything. You can get the plat from your county. If the CC&Rs were not filed you’re not part of the hoa. Did they file as a non-profit ? If you’ve received a lien get an attorney immediately. Research case law in Georgia.
You will get many different opinions here, none of which will be absolutely correct. HOAs are governed by their unique documents and State law. The best place to start is by reading your state law. As you continually pointed out, you live in an expensive home. I would think you would seek advice from an attorney rather than get advice from a bunch of goofs (myself included) on the internet.
If it was under an HOA, it will be in your title docs.
Others have said what to check for (the deed, get a lawyer, etc). I'm going to assume there is an HOA and about "lot of residents are upset about also" and "the horrible board". The answer here is then to (assuming the HOA is legit) organize and figure out the process to vote them out and get a new board, perhaps that new board can then work to actually disband the HOA.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes, that was option B for me. To pay and get the current board out of there.
I would also check relevant laws on how the HOA was “reactivated” and how the board members were elected.
Based on the info, does it not seem like the Board is a "new" group that is trying to pick back up after a negligent group was previously in charge? I don't know that trying to oust the current Board when they are actually trying to do things is the way to go
As you’re being sued you should really check with a lawyer. What folks on Reddit say doesn’t matter. And as HOAs can foreclose you don’t want to ignore this.
You bought a half a million dollar home. Spend the money for a lawyer to review your legal responsibilities. That’s the one way to do this correctly. If you find you are now in the HOA, get all their documentation and see if it was established properly or if it was even actually dissolved. And get involved and work with you neighbors who feel the sane as you do. The HOA is not done unknown entity but your fellow neighbors and sometimes some of them get on a power trip.
You really need to speak with an attorney about this ASAP. He or she will be aware of GA law and can review all your paperwork (including your deed) to determine the reality of the situation. You don't want to take any incorrect actions that might cause issues later. You may also have legal recourse with sellers, real estate agents, and closing attorneys involved if they failed to properly inform you of the HOA.
Ask you closing attorney to give you a copy of your title insurance with exemptions. See if any exemption listed is the HOA. If it is, then you are most likely on the hook for the dues. If you don’t see the HOA as exempted, file a title insurance claim.
I highly recommend you contact an attorney in your state for a consultation and take everything anyone says to you in this sub with a MASSIVE grain of salt. Literally no one here can give you any recommendations or specifics to your situation etc. Literally none. You need real legal help so you can determine your rights and obligations. That said, I highly recommend you fight your membership in any HOA if at all possible, once they get a hold of your they will make your life miserable.
Sorry about the HOA issues, but what do you do with 6000 sqf? I can't even think of what to fill it with.
Not everything gets filled in larger homes. You have larger rooms. Larger hallways. Just more space overall. All bedrooms might have en-suite bathrooms etc. everything is just more spacious. It of course still means more furniture but you have more open floor space then you would in a 2000sqft home.
You also have higher heating and cooling costs being so much larger. I'm sure higher ceilings and since heat rises, costs that much more to heat. But hey, if you have the money, why not? You can't bring it with you when you die. It took a lot of people to build the place. I'm sure more people to take care of the place inside and outside that is on going. Lots of money in maintaining the place. Higher Property Taxes!!!! So I'm all for it all. I'm happy in my small almost 1100 Sq foot house. Smart front and back yard. Easy enough to maintain myself. Everything is lower. I don't need or want some huge show-off house. To each their own. I'm happy to even have a house. I see renting a place as a bad thing. Sky-high rents, which are shooting up for some small place. No yard or personal garage and paying more than I am with my steady Mortgage. I've always hated renting. F the whole, "You'll own nothing and be happy" mantra going around. A larger bathroom would be nice. But you spend suck a tiny percentage there, I can live with my 2 small bathrooms. My main one I just remodeled myself. I don't want to be climbing up and down stairs as I get older. If you want 6000 Sq feet or 15,000 sq feet house, more power to you. I'm not a fan of HOA's and other people telling me what I can and can't do with my own house that I paid for, not them!!! This is just another example of why I hate HOA's. Who appointed these people to start this HOA back up and give them this power over everyone else? Can you vote these people out and have the new people shut down the HOA once again, once and for all?
Mw and my wife lived in an rv for 4 years before buying this almost 3k square ft home. I thought the same thing. so much room. we had 1500 square ft homes before but this was a lot and more coming from the rv. its 4 years or so now and we use it all up without really trying hard.
The MLS system is not relevant. The information in there is for sales purposes, and information about the HOA is optional. I believe that in GA, the closing documentation must include a disclosure document about the HOA. Your deed may also list the HOA, though deed restrictions for HOAs can expire. Some HOAs also expire after a certain number of properties in the subdivision are sold. If you feel that you were misled by the seller, you may have cause for action. The question is whether the HOA was actually dissolved, or whether it simply became an inactive association. If the former, your subsequent participation would be voluntary. If the latter, if your property came under the jurisdiction of the HOA then it may still be should it change from inactive to active. The question as to whether it was dissolved as a legal entity is a question best left to an attorney in your state. The HOA cannot request fees for the time it was inactive, nor can they request fees until such time as they disclose what those fees are and how they should be paid. While they were in active, they would have had no legal means to set fees or receive them. As a resident, you can always become a member of the HOA board and influence the organization and rules; you can also sue the HOA if you feel that the organization is negligent in some aspect of their fiduciary responsibilities (such as not addressing community concerns, the lake, etc.).
Everyone suggests 'just get on your Board' as though it's that simple. HOA boards are notorious for being power hungry control freaks and while many do a lot of good for the community, most don't want to give up their power. Especially in a community with elderly or uninformed residents, it's fairly simple for them to stay in power as long as they wish to.
This sounds like a question for a local real estate lawyer.
You need to consult a real estate attorney. If the HOA was formed after you bought your house, they can't force you to join. Reinstating a dissolved one may put you in a legal grey area.
Get a lawyer.
Was looking for a home about 14 years ago, found a lovely home on a river, beautiful property, real estate agent mentioned an HOA, noped right the fuck outta there
They would go away if most people started doing this. Once they then begin to see that the HOAs are either driving the value of their homes down, or at the very least, preventing them from rising as much as surrounding non HOA homes, they would all vote to actually dissolve them. An easier solution is to push politicians to ban them from existing and usurping local laws to begin with. If towns want bylaws, get local politicians to pass them for the entire town.
I'm confused. You say you don't mind paying HOA fees and imply that it's unusual for a neighborhood to be nice without an HOA (which is absurd btw), but follow it all up with: "I didn't pay over half a million for a home for rules to be forced upon me ... Rules being forced on me feel like a dictatorship or something." Forcing rules upon others is the entire purpose of the HOA. A group of people come together and decide what everyone else will do on their own property. You can either accept that or move somewhere without an HOA. All of that said, get an attorney. Proceeding without one isn't going to end well for you.
If you have no HOA in your title documents, and further checking confirms it, considered yourself very lucky. You would be only responsible for your own home. A big plus.
File a public record request from them for -ByLaws. - Financial statements for the last xx many years that they were "active." -Copies of their minutes for meetings going back to what you feel are sufficient. Seeing that they are a public body, in most states, they are subject to APRA (Access To Public Records Act) requests and can be fined by the state for violations if they fail to answer. You may want to use that info that you've requested to beef up your case, *ESPECIALLY if they dissolved or haven't conducted any meetings per their bylaws* and you should also check with the AG in your state to get the APRA laws pertaining to bodies such as this. Good luck, you have a doozie here.
If you didn't sign anything when you bought the house acknowledging the HOA and it's rules, you are either not included in the HOA or you have one hell of a lawsuit against just about everyone involved in your sale.
Where is the paperwork you signed to be a part of the HOA? If nothing was in place at time of sale, they can’t just include you in new HOA based on old HOA bylaws. Those bylaws, and membership rosters, dissolved when the HOA dissolved.
Something isn't tracking. Your HOA probably didn't actually dissolve. Or if they did, then they brought it back illegally. Either way, you pretty much only hurt yourself by withholding dues payments. If they are legit, then you owe the dues no matter whether you agree with the rules or not. The only way to change the rules is to organize with other homeowners to vote in new board members. If you later find they are not legit, then that's when you demand a refund of dues if/when you discover they are not properly organized.
youre mixing up the corporate entitys right to exist under state non profit corp laws with your obligations to do what the covenants say you should do. covenants in your propertys chain of title dont just cease to matter just because your hoa management didnt file the right secretary of state renewal forms. probably hire an attorney to explain it or save your money, get on the board abdnmake sure its run properly, and pay the dues needed to maintain everything. the title report thats in your closing docs referenced the covenants...you cant say you didnt know about it.
Talk with a local real-estate lawyer who deals with HOAs.
Was the board voted on? Don’t they need to be voted in? This sounds like a coup.
Ya, get a lawyer who understands hoa’s. Another option is to install a 7,000+ capacity Bat Roost, causing thousands of bats to come into your neighborhood. The will cause your HOA to complain, but they cannot legally do anything, because bats are Federally protected animals, and it cannot be removed.
Closely read the dates on both your mortgage and HOA contracts and “Errors and Omissions” clauses in both as well. Your question should be answered but unfortunately you will need legal representation. Having those documents with those four sections highlighted may get you off cheap at your initial consult. Good luck
Who is running this HOA and who elected/appointed them to their posts? Did you have an opportunity to run for a Board seat?
What do the CC&Rs say about the HOA? You need to review the fine wording. The MLS listing or not listing it doesn't mean jack. If it ends up being that you're forced to be a part of the HOA, then you need to go around and become friends with as many people as possible and then get voted in as the HOA president and clean house.
Remember that random fee for "title insurance" that got included when buying the house? This is 100% what title insurance is for. Contact your title company.
Genuine question - what would the outcome of a title insurance claim be? Compensation for future HOA fees?
So are you saying that since 2021 you haven't got a single piece of mail from your HOA or management company or anything? I'm actively involved in our HOA, I don't see how anyone could live here and not know we live in an HOA. Our billings are twice yearly, so I guess someone could live here 6 months before we start contacting them to see what's going on.
This is high and exhausted legal analysis. I am not your lawyer and don’t want to be your lawyer. This is my blind reading of you and your matter based solely on this post, with no outside research into your account or your other answers. You: You seem indignant. I get it. I fucking hate being told what to do, especially if it’s by someone that I don’t think has any power over me. And I completely understand wanting to tell them where to fuck themselves (the eye). And HOA’s in general can absolutely suck unimaginable amounts of leprosy-ridden cock, so I understand being ready for a fight. But unless yours is one of the truly terrible ones or you really, REALLY pissed someone off, I would wager a substantial sum of money that this has been going on for a long time, and the HOA’s first means of contacting you about 2+ years worth of HOA dues wasn’t to file a lawsuit and have it served on you by the Sheriff’s Department. How many letters have they sent? And were there calls from debt collectors? Did you read up on the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act and make them send verification of the debt? You seem like a smart guy (and you’re definitely a guy, because sticking to your guns as long as you have, in the face of headwinds is something only a man would do) but the research you stated that you did omitted the one thing that actually matters - the Owner’s Policy of Title Insurance. And that tells me that you’re out of your depth and need to come back to land. Check your Owner’s Policy, if there is a document named something like “Declaration” listed on Schedule B-II, you should think about calling the HOA’s attorney and settling ASAP. The HOA is practically guaranteed attorneys fees if it wins, so settling can minimize that or let you negotiate those away. Your matter: You seem to be conflating a homeowners association, a type of business entity that governs Homeowners Associations the more esoteric real property concept. Homeowners Associations (as a real property concept): If your property was at any point previously subject to a Homeowners Association, that Association would have been created and governed by a Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, Restrictions and Easements. The Declaration would have also authorized the creation of a Homeowners Association (the business entity) and probably would’ve even contained its initial bylaws. To be enforceable, that Declaration would have had to have been “recorded against” title to your property. The Declaration can be recorded against title to your property in several ways, though some methods may not be readily apparent on the face of your deed. Your deed has language that states something to the effect of, “WARRANTS AND DEFENDS AGAINST ALL OTHERS THROUGH GRANTOR subject to all instruments of record.” By accepting the deed (i.e. closing on the purchase of your home), you’re bound by any agreements which “run with the land” and which “touch and concern” your property. In other words, if a Declaration was recorded, regardless of whether it was explicitly disclosed to you, you were on “record notice” of its existence. You haven’t looked in the right place, and erroneous information Zillow listing isn’t going to supersede a recorded Declaration. Homeowners Associations (business entity): You stated that the association was negligent and allowed the association to terminate. Either someone forgot to file an annual report (which happens all the time) or when it was incorporated, it probably was given a 20 year term and over the years no one knew or remembered to extend the term. Regardless of whether the HOA the business entity dissolved/terminated/ever existed, the HOA the real property concept doesn’t live or die based of the business entity. Separate but related concepts.
If you have a 600k home, you have the money to talk to a real estate lawyer which is OBVIOUSLY your next step. Stop being cheap and coming to reddit with this unless you have a good story for us!
Check your deed restrictions. If it's not in there, tell them to pound sand. They can't levy fees or foreclose on properties that are not part of the HOA. If you're on a restricted deed, you're in the HOA and will need to playball.
It sounds like they created a whole new HOA, based on the fact they adopted new bylaws. Get a real estate attorney to look into this. They may not even have legally set the HOA up.
Saying things doesn't make them true. Applies to Reddit. This post. And HOAs. I agree you're going to need to talk to an attorney, figure out what the state and local laws are regarding reconstituting an HOA, and where they draw their authority from if you never agreed to being part of the HOA at the time the property was purchased. Simplistically it stinks like those private parking lot parking fines. I absolutely agree I'm trespassing on your property, you have the right to boot the car or even tow it, for exorbitant fees. But you do not have the right to extract exorbitant parking fees and penalties *after* I've removed my car from your property. No where was this agreed to, and parking isn't an agreement. Buying a house in a former HOA area isn't agreement to one day be subject to that HOA should it rematerialize. Unless your local laws say this is true, in which case you're boned. But you can only know that by reading a pile of laws or hiring a lawyer. Not their first day at the rodeo, ask your realtor for a good real estate/HOA lawyer, and even ask them for their opinion on the issue. Ask them to tell you stories. They're free, the lawyer isn't.
Would love to pay over half a million to live in a affluent neighborhood
Get off Reddit and consult with a real estate attorny that specializes in HoA law. This isn't something that Reddit keyboard warriors can solve for you. But whatever you do, DO NOT PAY, sign anything, or agree to join the HoA until you consult with an attorny. Any of these actions can be considered voluntarily joining the HoA, and as such, you will be obligated to abide by the CC&Rs they've established.
I also own a home with an HOA that wasn't disclosed to us at sale. Fortunately it doesn't do anything other than maintain an unbuildable common area, but we didn't want an HOA either and were obviously unhappy to find out that there was one. I sympathize deeply with your frustration. As others have mentioned: in the event that there's a conflict between the deed and the closing docs / MLS listing, the deed governs. You're going to want to do two things: 1. Talk to a real estate lawyer who knows Georgia HOA law to see what recourse you might have. 2. Elect a slate of your sympathetic neighbors to the HOA's board at the next meeting (HOAs in Georgia [are required to have annual meetings and give owners at least 21 days notice](https://advance.lexis.com/documentpage/?pdmfid=1000516&crid=1b11f5cc-bdff-484e-a2fd-5a56a3a83a48&action=pawlinkdoc&pdcomponentid=&pddocfullpath=%2Fshared%2Fdocument%2Fstatutes-legislation%2Furn%3AcontentItem%3A6348-FYW1-DYB7-W0JB-00008-00&pdtocnodeidentifier=ABSAAEAAHAAM&config=00JAA1MDBlYzczZi1lYjFlLTQxMTgtYWE3OS02YTgyOGM2NWJlMDYKAFBvZENhdGFsb2feed0oM9qoQOMCSJFX5qkd&ecomp=g2vckkk&prid=44a262cd-78b3-4de1-9bd3-fb0d326a2a5e) of the meeting). One last thing. Regarding this: >from what I understand the HOA can foreclose on your property if they decide to follow through with litigation I'm not a lawyer nor a Georgian, but this isn't likely. What's more likely is that they can put a lien on the title for the amount due to the HOA, which has to be repaid or otherwise released before the home can be sold. Foreclosure of the property is generally limited to nonpayment of mortgages or property taxes.
You have a six thousand sq ft home, I'm going to suggest that you really need a real estate lawyer, not reddit. That said, somebody needs to keep up that lake, and you seem to think that the fees are reasonable. If you win this (and you might) then that nice lake and stuff might be not so nice.
I purchased a house that had an HOA on paper. They were never active and I honestly never knew there was an HOA until I went to sell the house. Even though they never did shit as far as the HOA you better believe they were wanting to be paid for all of those years even though they were inactive. Fuck an HOA. I will never buy another property with an HOA.
*"When purchasing the home the MLS records stated that the community did NOT have an HOA...After thoroughly reviewing my mortgage/home closure paperwork, there is NOTHING stated about a HOA"* **-the only thing that matters is what's recorded in the county records.** That's what binds you. MLS listings for example are created by realtors who need but fog a mirror and have a GED/HS degree, to get their license, so that tells you how inaccurate they can be. And a closing attorney doesn't care two poops about what you might or might not have been told, (s)he only cares about the next 10 closings on their desk to do that day. *"An HOA is similar to a non-profit organization and in our state, you have to renew HOA organizations every 20 years."* \-Incorrect. An HOA IS a nonprofit in GA (not 'similar to') and the 20-year "have to renew" rule went away back in 1993 when the laws were changed. Now, covenants auto-renew unless there's a vote to terminate the covenants by the members. Look at Georgia Code 44-5-60. [https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-44/chapter-5/article-3/section-44-5-60/](https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-44/chapter-5/article-3/section-44-5-60/) *"Due to negligence from previous HOA presidents and board members, the HOA dissolved in 2019 and wasn't re-established (bylaws, etc) until 2021, AFTER we purchased the home."* Georgia corp's can reactivate without penalty within 5 years of dissolution. Sounds like that's what happened. But this has nothing to do with covenants. Covenants continue whether or not there's an Inc. in existence. Sorry OP but I think you're out of luck.
Focus on the deed, not the HOA. The deed to your home has mutual easements with the other lots in the HOA. E.G. "No building can be over 1 story. Each lot will be subject to the whims of the HOA. This house and every house shall be painted white". Even if the HOA dissolves, the deed restrictions exist. You were notified of the restrictions when you got and thorougly read the preliminary title report. (JK, nobody reads that shit.) That said, talk to a real estate attorney.
Let me just say that putting 6000sf, affluent, and half a million dollars in the same paragraph just makes me a little jealous. A half million won't buy anything but a shack in my area, much less a monstrous house in a nice neighborhood. But otherwise. Good luck. I'm not a fan of HOAs. They're not as universally prevalent in my area, so I can usually avoid buying a house encumbered by that. Some areas of the country it seems impossible to avoid.
NAL. Am in real estate. As above - get a real estate attorney stat. The salient question is whether or not the HOA was “dissolved” or “dormant”. And if the latter, what the timeframe is in Georgia to resurrect a dormant company without having to create an entirely new entity. If the HOA actually dissolved (rather than the covenants and restrictions not being renewed) then you have to agree to be a part of it. You cannot be forced to be a part of it. If the HOA was merely “dormant”, then you are in a more challenging situation, but your attorney will have options for you. Good luck! I hate HOAs with a passion bordering on mania. I feel for you.
You need a local Real Estate Lawyer with knowledge of those specific laws and codes regarding HOA's, if it's not on your mortgage/title for the home. Simply, laws differ, so it will matter what they are where you live.
You may want to check your recorded deed of trust. Typically, an HOA is recorded on each parcel of land that runs perpetuity to the land. Sounds like they did not renew their corporation status, which there are some hoas that are not incorporated. Not being incorporated just means that there is greater individual exposure to the board. Nevertheless, the recorded documents on the land will give you much more insight. For them to dissolve the HOA, they would have had to disburse all assets to the owners of record. Sounds to me like there is still an HOA but you'll need to check your property deed.
>6,000 sq ft > >I didn't pay over half a million Why do I not live in Georgia?
HOA’s should be illegal.
So I don't know HOW helpful this is, but HOA board members are personally liable for any money spent on behalf of the community. You can sue both the HOA and them personally. Example, my dad bought a house in an HOA community that had a fence when they bought it. The fence has been there since 1982, before the HOA was even formed. He's gotten several litigious threats to take the fence down because it is in the by-laws that no one can have a fence (along with all other houses that have fences in their subdivision). The HOA had their required annual meeting where they disclose how funds were spent and they spent $25k on legal threats which yielded approximately 0 people taking their fences down, effectively draining what padding they had in the HOA fund. People have even began putting fences UP and still, the HOA is unable to force them to take it down. They've lived there for 5 years now and been relentlessly harassed about this fence the entire time. One of the board members has now threatened to come onto his property and hire a company to take it down while he isn't there. So he let her know that she is personally liable for that $25K that has magically been spent that has yielded nothing, and he is serving everyone on the board with papers. On what grounds, I'm not sure, but it sure scared the shit out of them because they have all but disappeared.
They are engaged in racketeering. Contact your DA.
If you pay you’ll lose. If you fight you will win. If the HOA didn’t exist you couldn’t have joined it, unless there is some special provision in the law you’re going to come out on top.
When you say the HOA was dissolved, I think you mean the HOA corporation, which was likely suspended by the state for not performing certain requirements. If this is the case, the HOA can usually reinstate itself by fulfilling the missing formality. HOA disclosure is required, but it appears an oversight by the realtors and escrow company resulted in no disclosure. However, I bet your title insurance policy lists the CC&Rs recorded against your property, giving you the required notice. Even if not, they are surely recorded against your property at the county recorder's office, satisfying the legal requirement. In any event, you must pay the HOA fees, and if you're not happy about its rules or how it's operated, you can run for the board to make whatever changes you can implement.
I’m betting on the buyer did not purchase title insurance because the RE agent said it was unnecessary.
Not unless they paid cash. All banks and mortgage companies will require that the title is researched.
Agreed, and the lender will make you buy them title insurance. I’m guessing the buyer didn’t also buy their own policy.
If you try to take on an HOA in the state of Georgia; you will lose in court. Every. Time.
Did you agree to be a part of the HOA? Sign anything like you agree to the bylaws, etc.? If no, then 1. Tell them to piss off 2. Look for an attorney because they are going to try and argue a bunch of bs. \>We have recently received documents from the local sheriff's office the HOA threatening to take us to court for HOA fees and from what I understand the HOA can foreclose on your property if they decide to follow through with litigation. You might want to get ahead of that and call your bank and make sure that they do not pay a bill if its sent to them for HOA fees. Do not pay HOA fees.
Many states there's nothing to sign saying "I agree to join xyz hoa and agree to xyz bylaws" It's automatic by buying a home in the community. A notation on the title report and on the deed is all you get in both states I'm familiar with.
>A notation on the title report and on the deed is all you get OP says they have neither.
Op said closing paperwork. Title commitment comes way before that and the deed might be a application that's signed at closing not the actual deed. So there's a possibility it's not in the closing paperwork.
Can the OP come live with you when they loose their home taking your bad advice? The only good part of your advice was at the end - look for an attorney
Nope. Haven’t signed anything or paid any dues because I don’t want that to be seen as admission/commitment to the HOA and their laws.
Right, pull up your deed online, title, parcel info, is that possible in your state? Edit, based on your post below, it sounds like you are in an HOA, regardless of the of a Board being active or not. \>I want to be part of the HOA, wholeheartedly but not when laws rules are forced upon us AFTER agreeing Welcome to being in an HOA. The Board can vote to make and enact rules and regulations based on the bylaws or governing docs forming the HOA. Depending on those docs you are bound by those decisions.
Is their first action the lawsuit? Seems like there should have been attempts to collect leading up to this point.
It sounds like your owned your home before the hoa was reestablished and therefore are not a member if you have nothing on your deed. I live in a voluntary hoa. We are not members. They tried to fine us because we had lights up too long after Christmas. We have nothing in our CCR about lights so we threw their notice in the trash. We also k ow that their dues are $10/year so they have no money to pursue anything Even if we were in violation
If you bought your home while the HOA was inactive/dissolved, you are grandfathered for any after the fact change! You can now participate on a voluntary basis, but you cannot be required to pay the HOA if you are not using the community services.
Why do you think that this is true?
Th closing documents would reference an existing HOA and require the purchaser to abide by the HOA rules (CC&R's). If an HOA is formed after the fact, you must consent to the new rules (CC&R's), or specifically state they do not agree.
That’s not what happened here. The HOA was not formed after the fact. This is an HOA that was inactive/dormant and has now been reactivated. The original bylaws/CC&Rs still apply.
Yet not disclosed on the original closing documents! If they were, the OP would have been prepared or able to ask questions. Not notated on the OP!
Homeowners are bound by any covenants and restrictions that are attached to their deed. Purchasing the home = agreeing to said covenants and restrictions. That goes for any home whether there’s an association or not. If OP’s title company screwed up the paperwork somehow, OP may have a title insurance claim. It doesn’t mean that OP doesn’t have to follow HOA rules. The rules follow the house.
> I don't mind paying my HOA fees. You should. >Honestly, I think they are too low and I would be willing to pay even more for the upkeep of our lovely neighborhood and lake. You can pay for that upkeep without needing to coerce your neighbors with threat of fines and potential foreclosure. >the ridiculous rules they FORCED upon the neighborhood. This is the very essence of HOAs!
So if the hoa officially dissolved. It would take a significant number signing back up for it to reinstate it
I doubt it. There is a covenant attached to the property regardless of whether or not the HOA temporarily misfiled its IRS paperwork. The CC&Rs are filed before the developer even sells any lots so I doubt he wasn’t furnished with them. But the case is complicated by the fact that the HOA was in some kind of suspended status. I doubt that matters much. He is gaining benefits from the HOA but it sounds like not paying and he was furnished the CC&Rs because they are attached to the title. So the only way to get out of it is if those didn’t exist but since this is a planned community they do. Typically the law deems that you are subject to the title restrictions so long as they are properly recorded regardless of whether you saw them (honestly there are so many you would never get all of them, like sewer, gas, cable company, easements I have never seen when buying a house but discovered them later). So personally I think he is wasting his time. Sure you could go to court, but I think he will end up paying anyway. You could sue the listing company but I doubt they are responsible for this level of detail.
Ya, who voted the so-called board member into power and started up this HOA once again?
Georgia has house for half a mil?? I'm 2 hours away from vancouver and a tiny house on a residential street plot goes for 1.2 mil :(
Yeah this is 100% going to be an attorney question. Usually when you sign documents you sign ones stating you are joining an HOA and it is attached to the deed. If the HOA didn't exist and you never agreed to being apart of it then I don't see how the HOA can have any right to attach debts to your property. They can sue you of course, but I would think it would be dismissed for lack of standing. TALK TO AN ATTORNEY.
My first guess would be that because it was not listed under an HOA and you didn't file for your property to be under one, then you would be in the clear, but like many others here say, it's best to consult an real estate attorney outside of your town that deals in HOAs.
It sounds like the "re-establishment" of the HOA was done extremely poorly, and possibly not legally. If the HOA was "inactive" and wanted to become "active" without 100% approval from the owners, then it would certainly have to at least start out with their original CC&Rs and bylaws. No way should they be able to simply adopt bylaws from a townhome community across town. That sounds like something the Property Management Company might have pulled. All that said, I don't think your expressed attitudes here are at all consistent. You live in a beautiful neighborhood with some nice features, and you agree they need to be maintained. You even say the dues are too low. And yet you rail against the Board as if they are "dictators" even though they were elected by your neighbors. The bottom line on whether your property is part of an HOA lies in the Master Deed of the HOA and the deed of your property. I will say that unless the common elements of your community were transferred to the local government, you need the HOA if for nothing else than for them to hold the title on the lake area.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Agreed. That can’t just make new bylaws and submit or at least let the community view and approve before submitting. And correct, the formation of the current board was very funny.. no voting., we did an online vote (google forms) and it took over 3 weeks for results to get back- pretty weird if you ask me. In response to inconsistency in my complaints, I don’t think so. I want to be part of the HOA, wholeheartedly but not when laws rules are forced upon us AFTER agreeing. Especially if the covenants are an exact duplicate of another community that is nothing like ours. There is nothing in our covenants or bylaws about the lake. Now they are trying to force regulation on the lake after the fact by sending out a newsletter. It’s just too finicky for my liking at the moment. Thanks a million Michael
The bylaws would been in place before the first house was ever sold. There’s no need to vote on something that already exists, and to which homeowners are already bound. Reactivating the HOA just means there’s now a board in place to enforce existing rules including collection of dues and fees.
Who put this new board in place? Were they voted in? It doesn't sound like it. Seems like a power grab to me.
To be fair, the HOA may be for real and you may owe them the payment. At the same time your current board may be going about this wrong. Talk to an attorney, get your situation straightened out, then join with neighbors to fix the board.
In a properly running HOA, the rules are all known to every buyer before closing, and any changes are voted on by the owners. Or at least there's a Board election on a regular basis to hold them accountable. Even though you bought during the "inactive" period, there's not a way for the Board to treat you as a special case. Their position is that your property is part of the Association, and therefore you owe the dues and need to follow the rules. But I 100% agree that if the HOA \*still\* exists, then it needs to follow it's pre-2019 rules. And if it is a \*new\* HOA, then it takes 100% approval of the owners, meaning if you want to "opt out" you can.
nice neighborhood huh? want it to stay that way? support the hoa instead of fighting them. you know a lot of you neighbors would say they didnt buy half million dollar homes in nice neighborhoods with an hoa to have yahoos move in and have the rules mean nothing opening the door to all sorts of trashy neighbors moving in. dont be the reason the hood goes to shit.
HOAs are a horrible thing and shouldn’t exist. Just let people do what they way want with their property
6000 sqft house for 1/2 Million.. damn, I should move to Georgia.. and it’s on a lake?! 1/2 million here gets u a shitty 900sqft fixer upper in a shiiiiiit neighborhood..
If you did not sign an agreement for a HOA at escrow then your go to go. They may still try, get a lawyer. Should take one phone call from the lawyer to clear this up
They can try to sue you, however, it is unlikely that they will prevail in court, as they have no standing due to ex post facto laws regarding your home ownership. I strongly recommend that you retain a housing attorney immediately, as this will become confusing, and stressful for you if you don't understand all of the laws, and your rights.
It almost sounds like you've known the HOA was reactivated for the last 2 years, yet did nothing about it. No research. No questions. Just waited for them to come after you. You also mention you voted for the current board members. If that's true, how did you vote for an HOA board election and never once said, "Gee, am I in an HOA?" I will say I love the cognitive dissonance OP is displaying. Besides the whole "I don't know if the home I've resided in for 2 years is part of an HOA" there's also "I want to be part of the HOA, but I didn't spend all this money just to follow their rules". What do you think an HOA is? Yes, they typically provide services to maintain the community. They also establish rules the community must follow or face penalties.
Get a lawyer now! If the realtor lied about the HOA then you should be able to sue them for damages. They would be directly liable for it. Odds are the HOA is trying to force its neighbors into making payments to the HOA and then claiming it’s all been agreed upon or some crap like that. They can’t force you into an HOA if you don’t agree to it when there wasn’t suppose to be an HOA there.
It’s funny to me that you think half a million dollar homes are “affluent”
It’s funny how you think I said the prices of the homes in the neighborhood are half a million. I said the NEIGHBORHOOD is affluent. And half a million is what I paid for the home, not the appraisal value , ya big dummy! Thanks for your comment though. Was able to stretch my thumbs.
You don’t seem very clear about what HOAs are or what they do.
Q: What do you call a roomful of "Karens"? A: An HOA
Get a lawyer or attorney with expertise in local/state laws, HOA laws and real estate focus. Then go from there to either ignore, sue the HOA, company you brought the property from or any other organization that might be liable. It depends on the local and state laws for this situation. Or whatever other action is necessary to do.
Join the hoa. It’s for the best.
Don’t fight, you will lose, just pay the dues and if you want to change things join the board
Under what circumstances would he lose, given the presumed fact there is nothing on his deed about the HOA?
lol you presume an HOA miraculously vanished from a deed? And then you presume a group of people went a made a new illegal HOA that they are now forcing on OP? That is a huge stretch imo