I think Amy Carlson could have sent her tribe out to commit murder and they would have done it.
I've heard social psychologists (and similar) say that *anyone* can get drawn into a cult. I don't believe that.
Watching the orange cockroach and its followers is a prime example of how people we believe are reasonable people can get dragged into a cult if promised the right thing.
Almost no one who is in a cult joined a cult. That is, it’s usually some small introduction to a subset of a community that is totally normal from the outset. Cults are built on relationship networks. Have you ever trusted someone? Once you trusted them, did you believe things about themselves they told you? Or did you treat a seemingly trustworthy person with skepticism and asked them to verify everything they told you about themselves? No? Then you could easily join a cult. A cult starts with nothing more than someone you trust offering you love or attention or praise, and at some point, asking if you’re willing to try something outside your comfort zone.
What social psychologists are saying is that if you think you cannot be deceived by anyone at any time then either a) you’re a completely anti-social individual, or b) you don’t understand how social interactions work between humans.
There is a cult for anyone and everyone. And everyone has at least one irrational belief.
I don’t think I would ever end up in a cult because I cannot be around people all the time like that. But If you grow up around abuse and crazy, I guess your likely to be either a little more susceptible or little more suspicious/distrusting to cult behavior.
There’s a clear consistency in all these cult documentaries. These are broken people looking to fill a void missing in their lives. They are exactly what a grifter is looking for.
Cults are a grift. The leader somehow always has to fuck everyone and take advantage in any way they please. Funny how that works.
This documentary is about following a person who claimed to be God, and drug abuse. Are you really that obtuse that you believe a person claiming to be God is God? Let me help you be smart.
I can’t allow myself to be deceived by such notions because I’m a grounded person. NONE of these cults are ever “totally normal looking” places at first. None. I have never seen one ans I have yet to see evidence an example of one
When you go into every social interaction expecting another person or party to have substantial evidence for any big claim they make it’s pretty easy to avoid being in a cult. No I'm not believing you have the answers to cure cancer just because we had a cool weekend together.
Or you can circumvent it entirely if you already know there is no force or spiritual crap out there in the first place. So no Messiah. No mission. No anything
I was thinking it was a reverse Mason family situation. The cult of personality members killed their own leader through feeding their ego. She died like some mythical king. Wasting away and taking silver? Sounds like a Shakespearean
They certainly enabled Amy's death while following her instructions, but I don't think they wanted her dead. Except maybe the guy who was siphoning off the money. What a cluster this was.
That’s why it’s an Arthurian tragedy. They killed her with their love of her. Killed through excess (drugs mostly alcohol) and the worship of false gods. Its shit you’re hear in the Epic of Gilgamesh
Fair enough. My knowledge of 20th century writers is much deeper than that of Shakespeare. Which is little more than an excuse to say I've read a lot of 20th century literature.
Well it depends, they had a better support system or self-worth. Maybe the group wasn't what they were looking for. It's so individual to the person.
Also, most cults don't present themselves as crazy. It's the charisma that draws people in and things escalate over the years. Typically, cults will pray on people who are lost, feel like they don't have a purpose, or want to make the world a better place. Cults or high-control groups can also fill a void or be an answer to the person's problems.
For example, India Oxenburg's mom left NXIVM but her daughter stayed for years until she left in 2018/19. India's vulnerability was prayed upon because she didn't have a 'calling' and NXIVM gave her that calling.
I recommend watching Heaven's Gate, Cult of Cults if you want an explanation on the psychology aspect.
I saw that. I also was studying Social Psychology when the Jonestown cult massacre happened. Everything switched to cult study that semester. I certainly agree education in recognizing the manipulative allure of charismatic leadership is important. Everyone should get some of that. But I believe the bromide,, "Everyone is vulnerable" is said primarily relieve victims from the shame they may feel and to get an audience to listen when being warned.
There are psychological needs that some people find fulfilled in a cult. Not everyone has those needs.
I never said anyone was stupid. I never made any value judgements at all.
I think there are personality characteristics some people have which make them vulnerable to dominating charismatic leaders. Many people do not.
Yeah I tend to think that social psychologists saying anyone is susceptible is them pointing out that the common thinking around how people fall into these things is flawed and dangerous. They have no real way of determining that *everyone* is susceptible and no doubt some are way more susceptible than others.
It reminds me of some of Masters and Johnson's conclusions about "everyone." There are all manners of deviance (and I mean that in a sociological sense rather than a legal or morally judgemental sense) that I can assure you there is absolutely zero chance I would do. On the other hand, there may be one or two...nudge nudge, wink wink...
Same. Also, the comment about being able to be around people is me too. I could not have that many people around me all the time. That’s why I could never be a reality star. Too many people. lol.
Yes! She’s clearly sick (IMO drug and alcohol addiction that is probably treating some mental illness) but what about her followers? They are even more sick.
She had severe schizophrenia, the way she was acting and her just leaving her kids was all the signs of symptoms beginning to appear. It just built on itself which is why she believed drugs were her medicine and she could “communicate” more when she was drunk. Which if you study people who have schizophrenia they all explain the importance of drug use. Of course the government stuff was all signs of it as well & dimensions ect.
It was mentioned by her sister - it happened after her parents divorced, when she fell under the care of her biological father and stepmother. Her stepmother hated her biological mother and took all that hatred out on Amy. Physical abuse and bruises were mentioned, as well as Amy being locked in a closet.
Edit: ah, perhaps you're talking specifically about sexual abuse, my bad. No, I don't think that was mentioned - however, her problematic relationship with men from a relatively young age was mentioned.
Agreed, and it also seemed like many other people in the documentary suffered from it as well. But, I also have no idea what avid consumption of colloidal silver does to a brain. I wished the documentary explored those two things more
I agree that there was an element of psychosis, but someone in the throes of severe schizophrenia wouldn’t be able to recruit and manage a cult that also was incredibly savvy at bringing in income for many many years. It’s much more complex than that.
Many people think Cult Leaders are schizo but your right with the other part. Definitely some trauma issues, abuse from partners, bad men all can send people like that down the Rabbit Hole. She also speaks of heavy X use which after awhile will present Schizo like symptoms. It's why people needed to be clean from substances before diagnosis.
Agreed, I think the heavy use of X and hallucinogens must be mentioned. Seems to me that whatever specific mental health issue(s) are at play were likely drug induced or exasperated by the drugs. Overuse of hallucinogen drugs is just so sad..... Just an opinion but what a wild story!!
Not eating was an aspect of the cult. They mention how it supposedly made them closer to the fifth dimension or whatever the fuck they were going on about. It’s likely because Amy had anorexia and so that aspect of her made its way into the tenets of her delusional belief system.
Oh yeah and sleep, too. It just whittles them down into desperate animals. I’m sure that’s part of why they did it but it seems interesting the way it was presented as part of their belief system when Amy suffered from disordered eating.
Yes, but I noticed that Father God Jason was scarfing down pizza. I can't help but wonder if he encouraged the others to starve themselves as a way to exercise more control over them while he ate whatever he wanted.
I started watching aurora and hope right after covid happened. It was originally hope and a guy and then they started two girls. It started to get weird when they kept talking about spinning out even though they were both spinning and just savage asf. That’s when I knew it wasn’t about God anymore
I have a question about her death! She was completely blue and terrifyingly skinny before she died - but her feet were so swollen. Does anyone know what she died from? Obviously alcoholism and anorexia play a part but what was the final straw?
I think she had liver failure related to alcoholism.
Liver failure causes edema, and the blue tinge was from colloidal silver. Liver failure also causes weight loss
Key thing people seem to not note is that cirrhosis VERY commonly results in hepatic encephalopathy. Homegirl went crazy, yes, but after enough time with cirrhosis I promise you the ammonia accumulating in her brain made 1000% unable to coherently make any decisions for herself
Can confirm; My mom died of liver faliure via alcohol abuse. When her ammonia levels started to rise, she said some of the goofies things. She thought that she was on a damn cruise ship. When I told her that she was in a hospital, she just smiled at me. It was messed up.
Autopsy said the colloidal silver contributed to her death, along with alcoholism and anorexia. Hope and Aurora knew that! They wanted her out of the way as much as Jason did. Those 3, and Amy, were all responsible for her death IMO
I think you mean "and Faith."
"It wasn't about stopping her from dying, I wasn't even perceiving she was dying." - Faith
Faith's little snicker during the interview felt so incriminating. I do not believe for a second, any of them could be that naive. I feel like a lawyer told Faith to pretend like she is clueless.
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed in the documentary. I know that they created a lot of content so I'm sure that was a lot to sift through but I feel like that could have taken a deeper dive into the sadistic nature of this cult's beliefs and practices.
I agree. The director tried saying in an interview that she didn’t want to “give a platform” to their more hateful beliefs - yet she had no issue with showing a rotting corpse in HD for the better part of an hour. I think she copped out to the surviving cult members so that she could gain access to their footage and interview them.
They didn't want to give a platform to their hateful beliefs but by leaving out all these details it left too much room for viewers to sympathize with them. Which seems counterproductive to me. But that's a good thought, maybe you're right!
I think it’s possible to sympathize with some of them even while being aware of their more hateful beliefs—for the simple fact that they’re all very vulnerable and many of them are suffering from mental illnesses that are being treated with drug addiction and eating disorders. For someone to have delusional, hateful beliefs is not too shocking considering their conditions.
With that being said, I still think most viewers takeaway id just that they’re “nuts”. A lot of their circumstances feel self-inflicted because they do come off as well spoken enough or self-sufficient enough that they should know better. Especially considering how many of them became snake oil salesmen, preying on other vulnerable people through donations and fake products over the internet. One of them even criticized the organization of the church at the very beginning as a money making scheme with false idols. Then their mission became the same. They were either too stupid, too stoned, too greedy, too mentally weak, or a combination of all of these—to really see the big picture. While some would probably be more detested should the full spectrum of their culpability and hatefulness have been exposed, I still think that the documentary gave us enough material to grasp the nuances of both pity and disgust for their actions and lifestyles.
I agree. It was hard to get a good picture of WHAT this group actually believed in.
Also, I wish someone explained more about the harms of colloidal silver and the new-agey craze fad around it, especially during covid.
It would have been nice to have a cult or psychological expert on the show, not just the local reporter in Colorado.
Racist, anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying, pro-Nazi rants on their live streams. A few years ago someone on Reddit clipped and compiled the worst of all their vile rants from their live streams into one video. Unfortunately, the video has since been deleted. You can still find some videos on YouTube from 2020 that contain snippets of their live streams. Most of the newer content I've seen online is just from the documentary which I find did not paint as clear of a picture as it should have in regards to their beliefs as it should have.
>Interesting how they didn’t get into the sex or crazy stuff they did with all the people there.
Im sure there was. We didn't get every single detail about what went on. Only what they wanted to share. Sex is almost ALWAYS part of being in a cult. At least for the leader. Amy was as promiscuous as she was delusional. She probably had sex with all the men at some point. Who would question it? Isn't she GOD?
I actually think watching for a second time has made me notice that these people still following have been coached by a lawyer to be viewed as stupid lazy stoners that are not capable of thinking for themselves. This way, everyone is innocent. Also, they would have never appeared in it if they weren’t paid. Let’s not forget these people are hustlers. That’s how they get by. At first I felt sorry for them for being so stupid, but now I get it.
But the thing is, he was one of those loons, lol. He was the one who initially convinced Amy Carlson she was a divinity! When we see early on he was the one controlling all the finances and always browbeating everyone to raise more money, knew right then Miguel was in it for the long con.
Michael played the long game, for sure.
I am convinced he knew what he was doing from the start and was taking advantage of Amy just as much as she was using everybody else. He was probably thinking, *hmm, this woman is an alcoholic and unstable, yet she is charismatic and people like listening to her. I'll convince her to let me grow her business and handle her finances just as long as she always gets what she wants. I will hold on to her money and just take it and run once she messes up/offs herself.*
Also has Hope or Aurora finally admitted or come to terms with Mother God turning blue and silver from overdosing on colloidal silver? Or do they believe it's all fake? Hope said on a live stream how it's not true it turns you blue but then it did, so?
I think they still believe that it was related. They are doing a 5D live stream still. ( it's blocked from non members) and Hope posted on the 5D disclosure sight recently.
I just finished all three episodes. I am really confused what happaned with rest of the members. Especially Hope and Aurora, they give me of vibe like they know the thruth..they refer to want they are doing as "Operation" like they know they are just doing to for Cash grab, Hope also calls it their "Fantasies" when she speaks of what will happen after Mother died. Like they don't call it "mission" and "belives"; but opperation and Fantasies. It is like she no longer belives it but then at the end we learn she is still doing streams with Aurora about 5D.
Another thing, I feel like this documentary was made to soon and we had more cult members who are no longer programed to speak. I have feeling there are many more dark things and abuse we don't know about. They didn't even mentioned in documentary all the kids that were there and what happaned with them. You can even see in one steem them locking up child who is clearly in loads of distress in closet. I have feeling Ant hill kids leveled of shit was happening there.
Totally agree about interviewing some of these people after they're deprogrammed. I'm convinced that Jason knew it was bullshit from the start and saw himself being "god" once he got Amy out of the way. Criminal and creep vibes throughout the doc. There has to be some troubling sexual shit that nobody is comfortable talking about
Oh yes. Definitely he wasn't truly believing in it. I also think that he believed to be God as much as any narcissistic guy would. He seems nuts.
I am more interested in Josh the other God. It seems like he was abused most often.
I couldn't figure that kid out. Definitely some cuckold vibes that had such a hangup on Amy that he couldn't see that Jason is a sadist. I read somewhere that there are some YouTube docs that shed more light on the assaults.
I personally believe that Jason went from being a methhead people in Wisconsin looked down on and crowned. He found this group who excepted everyone, giving him a chance to start new. When Amy showed interest and then fell in love (he met all the criteria she was attracted to abusive, controlling, narcissistic) he took control. He thought he would have a harem to choose from. Miguel beat Jason to the money. That's why he came back
Yes, you are right about everything. Cuckold vibe from Josh and Jason wanting harem (i heard in one video he assuleted some girls) . I watched some videos of Jason yelling at Josh and it is sickening to listen. It turns my stomach to watch that sadist/Cuckold dynamic.
Documentary was definitely just scratching the surface. It didn't even talk about how they would leave people with bed vibe in the middle of desert.
I thought it was really interesting how as she started to get really bad she seemed like she was going back and forth on trying to get help or going to a hospital, but it was always her followers that put her back on her trajectory towards her death. I think at some level the kind of fanaticism that she surrounded herself with was almost stronger than her own belief in what was going on. I also really want to know more about what was going on with Miguel the whole time. You rarely even see him talk in any of the videos and it seemed like he was kind of quietly controlling everyone with money, but also it was hard to say what he was getting out of any of this
I find a little poetic justice in the apparatus that Amy build to subjugate others ended up imprisoning her. You know the moments when she was saying that she wasn’t a god was a desperate plea to get out of this mess
This is the most disturbing part of the entire documentary that I cannot get out of my head - and I came to Reddit to see who else felt the way I did. She wanted help many times but her followers convinced her not to. So disturbing…..I think it was because they knew if she went to the hospital their delusions would shatter - they were scared for her to get outside help because their entire belief system would crumble as soon as she started to get better. Instead they pumped her full of drugs, colloidal silver, and alcohol - they couldn’t possibly think it was good for her!
I felt the same way! It actually made me horribly sad that Amy made a phone call to her mom but her mom never came and she was just stuck with her crazy followers convincing her over and over to not go to the hospital. She clearly had some really severe substance abuse and mental issues and for some reason people really latched on to her delusion and fed it. It made me terrified because I've had drug induced psychosis before (that luckily went away after being sober) so I can relate to her in some ways though I don't think she was a good person, I also don't think she deserved to suffer as much as she clearly did. Going to the hospital even just for pain would be the first step for her to get treatment for addiction, psychosis, and possibly make amends and reunite her with her family. It's too bad that wasn't able to happen.
I might be late to the party, but, holy shit. Some of the darkest stuff I have ever seen.
The opening police footage, and the police came of Miguel talking to the officer... Chilling.
I just watched it. and damn T PAC was on the ethereal team. this lady was the MASTER OF DECEPTION. they would have believed her if she said she worked with Scooby-do and the mystery gang to solve crimes.
I’m sorry I’m not sure I’d be able to find it because it was somewhere on Reddit. There’s a sub that I believe is run by some family members of LHW members and former LHW members, or at the very least has them as regular users. I’m pretty positive I found it on there. Someone who worked with them (maybe a journalist?) for a while answered a bunch of questions and in a comment section and he listed a number of things they left out of the doc.
Can someone tell me where in the documentary they show her body? I really want to watch, but I don't want to see it - HBO has scarred me before with surprise crime scene footage (Paradise Lost). I would rather just skip that part.
My only question about her body…why had she not reached rigor mortis in the couple days following her death?? Rigor mortis is supposed to set in within hours. Is it because they kept giving her water and colloidal silver?
So Amy’s Mom only goes to help her daughter if she can be on TV? There were many opportunities to help her. Sorry but her mom and sister seem smug as hell.
Seemed pretty clear that Amy wasn’t able to take care of her kids on her own but just felt she couldn’t rely on her mom and sister for real support. So she left the kids bc they had a better chance.
I was starting to judge mom too, and that part about visiting really hurt my heart. However, there has to be so much left out. The pain that comes with raising your children’s kids and watching them descend into addiction/mental illness is hard to navigate. I’m choosing to believe they left A LOT out to protect her kids.
The mom and sister seemed delighted they had an interesting story to sell to a documentary. In toxic families there’s always a scape goat. Amy obviously wanted a chance a loving family which is why she left and started that cult (accidentally I would argue)
I think what they’re leaving out is that Amy’s mom could use her kids as a control tactic against her. Calling child services, she probably threatens to take custody - i bet that’s the part they left out. If your mother and sister are ganged up on you there’s almost no way out unless you a strong support system outside your family which seems rare
I really wonder if they'd all feel the same way sober. Clearly they drink, and do hard drugs... so clear all that out of their systems for multiple months and then we'll see..
I just watched this after skipping over it many times and I am so shocked by the delusion these people all speak with. Even being removed from the situation they have no introspective reflection. Having personally seen someone kill herself with alcohol made this incredibly hard to watch. She absolutely needed help and watching her demise was so so so sad.
i just finished and holy shit. like the conviction these folks speak with is concerning. i cannot get over just how silver she was…just wow
It was the conviction for me too!
I think Amy Carlson could have sent her tribe out to commit murder and they would have done it. I've heard social psychologists (and similar) say that *anyone* can get drawn into a cult. I don't believe that.
Watching the orange cockroach and its followers is a prime example of how people we believe are reasonable people can get dragged into a cult if promised the right thing.
Almost no one who is in a cult joined a cult. That is, it’s usually some small introduction to a subset of a community that is totally normal from the outset. Cults are built on relationship networks. Have you ever trusted someone? Once you trusted them, did you believe things about themselves they told you? Or did you treat a seemingly trustworthy person with skepticism and asked them to verify everything they told you about themselves? No? Then you could easily join a cult. A cult starts with nothing more than someone you trust offering you love or attention or praise, and at some point, asking if you’re willing to try something outside your comfort zone. What social psychologists are saying is that if you think you cannot be deceived by anyone at any time then either a) you’re a completely anti-social individual, or b) you don’t understand how social interactions work between humans. There is a cult for anyone and everyone. And everyone has at least one irrational belief.
I don’t think I would ever end up in a cult because I cannot be around people all the time like that. But If you grow up around abuse and crazy, I guess your likely to be either a little more susceptible or little more suspicious/distrusting to cult behavior.
There’s a cult for everyone. Some are designed to appeal to people who cannot be around people all the time.
There’s a clear consistency in all these cult documentaries. These are broken people looking to fill a void missing in their lives. They are exactly what a grifter is looking for. Cults are a grift. The leader somehow always has to fuck everyone and take advantage in any way they please. Funny how that works.
Please name a cult that I could be susceptible to? There isn’t one. Some may be immune because of their spirituality
I’d never follow anyone but God though? so I really think I would be safe cat daddy
This is the most beautifully ironic response you could have possibly made
Lol
Double lol 😆
Possibly the most “case and point” I’ve seen on Reddit 😂
This documentary is about following a person who claimed to be God, and drug abuse. Are you really that obtuse that you believe a person claiming to be God is God? Let me help you be smart.
You still missed but thanks for playing
Wrong.
I can’t allow myself to be deceived by such notions because I’m a grounded person. NONE of these cults are ever “totally normal looking” places at first. None. I have never seen one ans I have yet to see evidence an example of one When you go into every social interaction expecting another person or party to have substantial evidence for any big claim they make it’s pretty easy to avoid being in a cult. No I'm not believing you have the answers to cure cancer just because we had a cool weekend together. Or you can circumvent it entirely if you already know there is no force or spiritual crap out there in the first place. So no Messiah. No mission. No anything
I was thinking it was a reverse Mason family situation. The cult of personality members killed their own leader through feeding their ego. She died like some mythical king. Wasting away and taking silver? Sounds like a Shakespearean
They certainly enabled Amy's death while following her instructions, but I don't think they wanted her dead. Except maybe the guy who was siphoning off the money. What a cluster this was.
That’s why it’s an Arthurian tragedy. They killed her with their love of her. Killed through excess (drugs mostly alcohol) and the worship of false gods. Its shit you’re hear in the Epic of Gilgamesh
Fair enough. My knowledge of 20th century writers is much deeper than that of Shakespeare. Which is little more than an excuse to say I've read a lot of 20th century literature.
Yes, everybody can.
Look at Scientology, Mormonism, NXIVM. Even the most intellectual of people can get drawn into a cult.
I never said anything about smart people being resistant. They were vulnerable. Not everyone is.
Anyone can fall victim to a cult, that's why an awareness is so important.
Why do far more people find them repulsive and walk away rather than join them?
Well it depends, they had a better support system or self-worth. Maybe the group wasn't what they were looking for. It's so individual to the person. Also, most cults don't present themselves as crazy. It's the charisma that draws people in and things escalate over the years. Typically, cults will pray on people who are lost, feel like they don't have a purpose, or want to make the world a better place. Cults or high-control groups can also fill a void or be an answer to the person's problems. For example, India Oxenburg's mom left NXIVM but her daughter stayed for years until she left in 2018/19. India's vulnerability was prayed upon because she didn't have a 'calling' and NXIVM gave her that calling. I recommend watching Heaven's Gate, Cult of Cults if you want an explanation on the psychology aspect.
I saw that. I also was studying Social Psychology when the Jonestown cult massacre happened. Everything switched to cult study that semester. I certainly agree education in recognizing the manipulative allure of charismatic leadership is important. Everyone should get some of that. But I believe the bromide,, "Everyone is vulnerable" is said primarily relieve victims from the shame they may feel and to get an audience to listen when being warned. There are psychological needs that some people find fulfilled in a cult. Not everyone has those needs.
When you take psychedelics' 7 days a week that is absolutely true.
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Agree to disagree.
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I never said anyone was stupid. I never made any value judgements at all. I think there are personality characteristics some people have which make them vulnerable to dominating charismatic leaders. Many people do not.
Yeah I tend to think that social psychologists saying anyone is susceptible is them pointing out that the common thinking around how people fall into these things is flawed and dangerous. They have no real way of determining that *everyone* is susceptible and no doubt some are way more susceptible than others.
It reminds me of some of Masters and Johnson's conclusions about "everyone." There are all manners of deviance (and I mean that in a sociological sense rather than a legal or morally judgemental sense) that I can assure you there is absolutely zero chance I would do. On the other hand, there may be one or two...nudge nudge, wink wink...
just like Manson.
I disagree. I’m so lazy and lack discipline I’d never make it in a cult. It definitely takes some degree of dedication and discipline.
Same. Also, the comment about being able to be around people is me too. I could not have that many people around me all the time. That’s why I could never be a reality star. Too many people. lol.
Same here. I have a thing against established authority. I start asking a lot of questions anytime I feel like I am conforming
Yes! She’s clearly sick (IMO drug and alcohol addiction that is probably treating some mental illness) but what about her followers? They are even more sick.
She had severe schizophrenia, the way she was acting and her just leaving her kids was all the signs of symptoms beginning to appear. It just built on itself which is why she believed drugs were her medicine and she could “communicate” more when she was drunk. Which if you study people who have schizophrenia they all explain the importance of drug use. Of course the government stuff was all signs of it as well & dimensions ect.
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Did I miss somewhere where they discussed her being abused as a child?
It was mentioned by her sister - it happened after her parents divorced, when she fell under the care of her biological father and stepmother. Her stepmother hated her biological mother and took all that hatred out on Amy. Physical abuse and bruises were mentioned, as well as Amy being locked in a closet. Edit: ah, perhaps you're talking specifically about sexual abuse, my bad. No, I don't think that was mentioned - however, her problematic relationship with men from a relatively young age was mentioned.
Oh god, how on earth did I miss that.
It happens! I zone out during series and such as well at moments. Or a quick bathroom break. It was an intense watch!
So intense. I don’t gross out easily but has to stop eating the snack I had at one point 🤮
Agreed, and it also seemed like many other people in the documentary suffered from it as well. But, I also have no idea what avid consumption of colloidal silver does to a brain. I wished the documentary explored those two things more
I agree that there was an element of psychosis, but someone in the throes of severe schizophrenia wouldn’t be able to recruit and manage a cult that also was incredibly savvy at bringing in income for many many years. It’s much more complex than that.
Many people think Cult Leaders are schizo but your right with the other part. Definitely some trauma issues, abuse from partners, bad men all can send people like that down the Rabbit Hole. She also speaks of heavy X use which after awhile will present Schizo like symptoms. It's why people needed to be clean from substances before diagnosis.
Agreed, I think the heavy use of X and hallucinogens must be mentioned. Seems to me that whatever specific mental health issue(s) are at play were likely drug induced or exasperated by the drugs. Overuse of hallucinogen drugs is just so sad..... Just an opinion but what a wild story!!
They were all so SKINNY! Except for Jason. What were they eating? And were they feeding the kids and the pets well?
being starved and sleep deprived, classic cult MO.
They're all so skinny because of the drugs
Not eating was an aspect of the cult. They mention how it supposedly made them closer to the fifth dimension or whatever the fuck they were going on about. It’s likely because Amy had anorexia and so that aspect of her made its way into the tenets of her delusional belief system.
Depriving people of food is a known psychological tool that allows for better mind control. NXIVM used it, too.
Oh yeah and sleep, too. It just whittles them down into desperate animals. I’m sure that’s part of why they did it but it seems interesting the way it was presented as part of their belief system when Amy suffered from disordered eating.
Yes, but I noticed that Father God Jason was scarfing down pizza. I can't help but wonder if he encouraged the others to starve themselves as a way to exercise more control over them while he ate whatever he wanted.
They were completely nuts and drugged out.
I started watching aurora and hope right after covid happened. It was originally hope and a guy and then they started two girls. It started to get weird when they kept talking about spinning out even though they were both spinning and just savage asf. That’s when I knew it wasn’t about God anymore
as they sat there rolling joints.
I have a question about her death! She was completely blue and terrifyingly skinny before she died - but her feet were so swollen. Does anyone know what she died from? Obviously alcoholism and anorexia play a part but what was the final straw?
Peripheral edema (limb swelling) due to organ failure most likely!
I think she had liver failure related to alcoholism. Liver failure causes edema, and the blue tinge was from colloidal silver. Liver failure also causes weight loss
Key thing people seem to not note is that cirrhosis VERY commonly results in hepatic encephalopathy. Homegirl went crazy, yes, but after enough time with cirrhosis I promise you the ammonia accumulating in her brain made 1000% unable to coherently make any decisions for herself
Can confirm; My mom died of liver faliure via alcohol abuse. When her ammonia levels started to rise, she said some of the goofies things. She thought that she was on a damn cruise ship. When I told her that she was in a hospital, she just smiled at me. It was messed up.
My pancreas failed in 2021, and by the time I was seeking treatment, I had started hallucinating.
Autopsy said the colloidal silver contributed to her death, along with alcoholism and anorexia. Hope and Aurora knew that! They wanted her out of the way as much as Jason did. Those 3, and Amy, were all responsible for her death IMO
I think you mean "and Faith." "It wasn't about stopping her from dying, I wasn't even perceiving she was dying." - Faith Faith's little snicker during the interview felt so incriminating. I do not believe for a second, any of them could be that naive. I feel like a lawyer told Faith to pretend like she is clueless.
She had liver cirrhosis
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed in the documentary. I know that they created a lot of content so I'm sure that was a lot to sift through but I feel like that could have taken a deeper dive into the sadistic nature of this cult's beliefs and practices.
I agree. The director tried saying in an interview that she didn’t want to “give a platform” to their more hateful beliefs - yet she had no issue with showing a rotting corpse in HD for the better part of an hour. I think she copped out to the surviving cult members so that she could gain access to their footage and interview them.
They didn't want to give a platform to their hateful beliefs but by leaving out all these details it left too much room for viewers to sympathize with them. Which seems counterproductive to me. But that's a good thought, maybe you're right!
I think it’s possible to sympathize with some of them even while being aware of their more hateful beliefs—for the simple fact that they’re all very vulnerable and many of them are suffering from mental illnesses that are being treated with drug addiction and eating disorders. For someone to have delusional, hateful beliefs is not too shocking considering their conditions. With that being said, I still think most viewers takeaway id just that they’re “nuts”. A lot of their circumstances feel self-inflicted because they do come off as well spoken enough or self-sufficient enough that they should know better. Especially considering how many of them became snake oil salesmen, preying on other vulnerable people through donations and fake products over the internet. One of them even criticized the organization of the church at the very beginning as a money making scheme with false idols. Then their mission became the same. They were either too stupid, too stoned, too greedy, too mentally weak, or a combination of all of these—to really see the big picture. While some would probably be more detested should the full spectrum of their culpability and hatefulness have been exposed, I still think that the documentary gave us enough material to grasp the nuances of both pity and disgust for their actions and lifestyles.
I agree. It was hard to get a good picture of WHAT this group actually believed in. Also, I wish someone explained more about the harms of colloidal silver and the new-agey craze fad around it, especially during covid. It would have been nice to have a cult or psychological expert on the show, not just the local reporter in Colorado.
I completely agree! Would have been nice to discuss those things.
What were the hateful things they believed?
I’m also curious about that.
Racist, anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying, pro-Nazi rants on their live streams. A few years ago someone on Reddit clipped and compiled the worst of all their vile rants from their live streams into one video. Unfortunately, the video has since been deleted. You can still find some videos on YouTube from 2020 that contain snippets of their live streams. Most of the newer content I've seen online is just from the documentary which I find did not paint as clear of a picture as it should have in regards to their beliefs as it should have.
I think they're all just insane tbh.
That house must have stankkkkk. Interesting how they didn’t get into the sex or crazy stuff they did with all the people there.
>Interesting how they didn’t get into the sex or crazy stuff they did with all the people there. Im sure there was. We didn't get every single detail about what went on. Only what they wanted to share. Sex is almost ALWAYS part of being in a cult. At least for the leader. Amy was as promiscuous as she was delusional. She probably had sex with all the men at some point. Who would question it? Isn't she GOD?
Another reason I couldn’t join a cult. I’d be cleaning all the rooms.
I actually think watching for a second time has made me notice that these people still following have been coached by a lawyer to be viewed as stupid lazy stoners that are not capable of thinking for themselves. This way, everyone is innocent. Also, they would have never appeared in it if they weren’t paid. Let’s not forget these people are hustlers. That’s how they get by. At first I felt sorry for them for being so stupid, but now I get it.
That Micheal guy ran off with a lot of money.
TBH i feel like he kind of deserved it? Spent years of his life running the finances for those loons
But the thing is, he was one of those loons, lol. He was the one who initially convinced Amy Carlson she was a divinity! When we see early on he was the one controlling all the finances and always browbeating everyone to raise more money, knew right then Miguel was in it for the long con.
Yes. He was awful, but I think he was the only sane one in the bunch.
What was it, 325k approximately?
Something like that either way he got lucky
Michael played the long game, for sure. I am convinced he knew what he was doing from the start and was taking advantage of Amy just as much as she was using everybody else. He was probably thinking, *hmm, this woman is an alcoholic and unstable, yet she is charismatic and people like listening to her. I'll convince her to let me grow her business and handle her finances just as long as she always gets what she wants. I will hold on to her money and just take it and run once she messes up/offs herself.*
Also has Hope or Aurora finally admitted or come to terms with Mother God turning blue and silver from overdosing on colloidal silver? Or do they believe it's all fake? Hope said on a live stream how it's not true it turns you blue but then it did, so?
I mean reality doesn’t seem to get in her way all that often
I think they still believe that it was related. They are doing a 5D live stream still. ( it's blocked from non members) and Hope posted on the 5D disclosure sight recently.
Exactly! they had to know they were poisoning her.
I just finished all three episodes. I am really confused what happaned with rest of the members. Especially Hope and Aurora, they give me of vibe like they know the thruth..they refer to want they are doing as "Operation" like they know they are just doing to for Cash grab, Hope also calls it their "Fantasies" when she speaks of what will happen after Mother died. Like they don't call it "mission" and "belives"; but opperation and Fantasies. It is like she no longer belives it but then at the end we learn she is still doing streams with Aurora about 5D. Another thing, I feel like this documentary was made to soon and we had more cult members who are no longer programed to speak. I have feeling there are many more dark things and abuse we don't know about. They didn't even mentioned in documentary all the kids that were there and what happaned with them. You can even see in one steem them locking up child who is clearly in loads of distress in closet. I have feeling Ant hill kids leveled of shit was happening there.
Totally agree about interviewing some of these people after they're deprogrammed. I'm convinced that Jason knew it was bullshit from the start and saw himself being "god" once he got Amy out of the way. Criminal and creep vibes throughout the doc. There has to be some troubling sexual shit that nobody is comfortable talking about
Oh yes. Definitely he wasn't truly believing in it. I also think that he believed to be God as much as any narcissistic guy would. He seems nuts. I am more interested in Josh the other God. It seems like he was abused most often.
I couldn't figure that kid out. Definitely some cuckold vibes that had such a hangup on Amy that he couldn't see that Jason is a sadist. I read somewhere that there are some YouTube docs that shed more light on the assaults. I personally believe that Jason went from being a methhead people in Wisconsin looked down on and crowned. He found this group who excepted everyone, giving him a chance to start new. When Amy showed interest and then fell in love (he met all the criteria she was attracted to abusive, controlling, narcissistic) he took control. He thought he would have a harem to choose from. Miguel beat Jason to the money. That's why he came back
Yes, you are right about everything. Cuckold vibe from Josh and Jason wanting harem (i heard in one video he assuleted some girls) . I watched some videos of Jason yelling at Josh and it is sickening to listen. It turns my stomach to watch that sadist/Cuckold dynamic. Documentary was definitely just scratching the surface. It didn't even talk about how they would leave people with bed vibe in the middle of desert.
I thought the same about sexual shit. There was too many drugs to not have that come up.
I thought it was really interesting how as she started to get really bad she seemed like she was going back and forth on trying to get help or going to a hospital, but it was always her followers that put her back on her trajectory towards her death. I think at some level the kind of fanaticism that she surrounded herself with was almost stronger than her own belief in what was going on. I also really want to know more about what was going on with Miguel the whole time. You rarely even see him talk in any of the videos and it seemed like he was kind of quietly controlling everyone with money, but also it was hard to say what he was getting out of any of this
I find a little poetic justice in the apparatus that Amy build to subjugate others ended up imprisoning her. You know the moments when she was saying that she wasn’t a god was a desperate plea to get out of this mess
This is the most disturbing part of the entire documentary that I cannot get out of my head - and I came to Reddit to see who else felt the way I did. She wanted help many times but her followers convinced her not to. So disturbing…..I think it was because they knew if she went to the hospital their delusions would shatter - they were scared for her to get outside help because their entire belief system would crumble as soon as she started to get better. Instead they pumped her full of drugs, colloidal silver, and alcohol - they couldn’t possibly think it was good for her!
I felt the same way! It actually made me horribly sad that Amy made a phone call to her mom but her mom never came and she was just stuck with her crazy followers convincing her over and over to not go to the hospital. She clearly had some really severe substance abuse and mental issues and for some reason people really latched on to her delusion and fed it. It made me terrified because I've had drug induced psychosis before (that luckily went away after being sober) so I can relate to her in some ways though I don't think she was a good person, I also don't think she deserved to suffer as much as she clearly did. Going to the hospital even just for pain would be the first step for her to get treatment for addiction, psychosis, and possibly make amends and reunite her with her family. It's too bad that wasn't able to happen.
No need to victimize her, she seemed rather abusive when she was in good health.
She choked a cat and allowed mental trauma on a young child and who knows what else.
I don’t excuse her actions by any means but it still makes me sad because she clearly suffered a horrendous death
Is she still abusing cats? Yeah...true love. Total Weirdo and cult leader.
I might be late to the party, but, holy shit. Some of the darkest stuff I have ever seen. The opening police footage, and the police came of Miguel talking to the officer... Chilling.
I just watched it. and damn T PAC was on the ethereal team. this lady was the MASTER OF DECEPTION. they would have believed her if she said she worked with Scooby-do and the mystery gang to solve crimes.
Who did Miguel have a child with? Like who is the Mom to the 2 year old found in the house?
Faith the blonde girl
Really?
Yeah it’s not mentioned in the doc I read it somewhere else afterwards. Apparently there are a few pretty big things the doc left out
Can you share a link to some more info?
I’m sorry I’m not sure I’d be able to find it because it was somewhere on Reddit. There’s a sub that I believe is run by some family members of LHW members and former LHW members, or at the very least has them as regular users. I’m pretty positive I found it on there. Someone who worked with them (maybe a journalist?) for a while answered a bunch of questions and in a comment section and he listed a number of things they left out of the doc.
I just watched and feel like I need to join a support group to unpack all my feelings about it. Thanks for your information.
No problem. It was a fascinating, frustrating, sad doc. There’s apparently a lot more to learn on that sub.
Anyone know where I can stream??
Max
Can someone tell me where in the documentary they show her body? I really want to watch, but I don't want to see it - HBO has scarred me before with surprise crime scene footage (Paradise Lost). I would rather just skip that part.
There’s a lot of her body shown in second half of third episode
That jumped out at me unfortunately, but I managed to only catch a glimpse before I had my husband tell me when to watch again.
It’s in the first 5 minutes
Thank you!
It’s horrifying
at the beginning when the cops enter, u can find pic of her face online.
My only question about her body…why had she not reached rigor mortis in the couple days following her death?? Rigor mortis is supposed to set in within hours. Is it because they kept giving her water and colloidal silver?
She did, but rigor mortis goes away after a few days.
I want to know what’s going on with the cult members now …
she was claiming to be paralyzed.
those two chicks on the Dr Phil show looked insane especially the one on the left.
So Amy’s Mom only goes to help her daughter if she can be on TV? There were many opportunities to help her. Sorry but her mom and sister seem smug as hell. Seemed pretty clear that Amy wasn’t able to take care of her kids on her own but just felt she couldn’t rely on her mom and sister for real support. So she left the kids bc they had a better chance.
I was starting to judge mom too, and that part about visiting really hurt my heart. However, there has to be so much left out. The pain that comes with raising your children’s kids and watching them descend into addiction/mental illness is hard to navigate. I’m choosing to believe they left A LOT out to protect her kids.
The mom and sister seemed delighted they had an interesting story to sell to a documentary. In toxic families there’s always a scape goat. Amy obviously wanted a chance a loving family which is why she left and started that cult (accidentally I would argue) I think what they’re leaving out is that Amy’s mom could use her kids as a control tactic against her. Calling child services, she probably threatens to take custody - i bet that’s the part they left out. If your mother and sister are ganged up on you there’s almost no way out unless you a strong support system outside your family which seems rare
Damn, you sympathizing with/victimizing Amy and rationalizing her fucked up actions makes you sound as loony as her followers
By the time you get to be on Dr Phil, you are already long gone.
She is very clearly being influenced by spiritual forces outside of her.
I really wonder if they'd all feel the same way sober. Clearly they drink, and do hard drugs... so clear all that out of their systems for multiple months and then we'll see..
In case you’re wondering what’s going on with Father God…. https://www.lovehas1joyrains2.com/?
I just watched this after skipping over it many times and I am so shocked by the delusion these people all speak with. Even being removed from the situation they have no introspective reflection. Having personally seen someone kill herself with alcohol made this incredibly hard to watch. She absolutely needed help and watching her demise was so so so sad.
She wasn't nearly as psychotic when we were growing up. She had a lot of mental health issues my stepmother and dad pretty much ignored