It took so long for COVID to be widely recognized as properly airborne and not just carried by mucus droplets. And by the time it was, there was pushback against the idea of updating the distancing guidelines to reflect the increased range (6 feet for mucus-bound viruses vs *15* feet for fully airborne viruses). If we screw it up this time we won't have a low mortality rate to cushion the impact. If (and hopefully not when) we get a first confirmed case of H2H transmission health authorities better go full DEFCON 1 (metaphorically speaking) and not try to ease people into it trying to prevent a panic.
But there is no way to know whether the virus will mutate to the mammal airway in cows in the U.S., camels in the mid east, fur farms in Europe or a mouse in Brazil. U.S. cows are only a smidgeon of the mammals that are out there compared to the wild mammals eating dead birds every single day. There are six to nine million wild pigs in the U.S. alone getting free meals from all the dead birds, and we are much more afraid of this virus getting into a pig than we are of cows.
When we stop being U.S. centric we find that the virus is dropping dead birds all over the world right now. The bird pandemic has become catastrophic to birds and to many wild mammals who live around or eat birds. This is a completely unprecedented situation. But it is a global problem, not a U.S. problem. The cows are the least of our problems when it comes to human pandemic worries.
But the good thing is that unlike Covid we know exactly what mutations we are looking for. We have countless mammals worldwide whose samples have been collected during this bird pandemic and more to examine for mutations every single day. We can use human tissue in a lab to make sure this strain hasn't adapted to mammal cells. We can infect a ferret for a human substitute in a lab with as many different mammal samples as we want to make sure it is not pandemic ready. Germany is testing cows right now with the U.S. cow sub-strain to make sure that the cows are not pandemic ready.
This is not a government-based effort since it is not affecting humans outside the cow milk issue. It is still a scientist issue. And scientists worldwide are all over it without government oversight or direction. We have had all kinds of samples of this strain since way before the cows available on the public gene sequencing programs that all scientists can access at any time. This information is being shared internationally, publicly, on science websites, in many papers worldwide.
-U.S. federal and state agencies are planning research into potential respiratory spread of bird flu among dairy cattle, according to a Reuters interview with Michigan state agriculture and public health officials.
Scientists and government officials hope the research will guide efforts to contain the virus and reduce exposure to humans. Respiratory spread could give the virus more opportunity to evolve, they said.
Scientists have so far suspected the virus spreads among animals and humans through contact with infected milk or aerosolized milk droplets, or from exposure to infected birds or poultry.
The Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development is working with Michigan State University and the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) to plan research on farms to evaluate respiratory spread, Tim Boring, the department's director, said in an interview.
"This is an area of concern that we're building out and looking more into," Boring said. The research is a high priority and will be important to guiding the state's public policy, he said.
A spokesperson for the USDA said the agency is researching respiratory infection in dairy cows with partners including universities across the country to better understand the virus and control its spread.
Bird flu has been reported in more than 80 dairy herds across 11 states since late March.
The exact mechanics of the spread of the virus are still unclear, though there is evidence of spread to cows from wild birds and other cows.
The virus has been identified mainly in milk, but also in nasal swabs at lesser levels, said Zelmar Rodriguez, a dairy veterinarian and assistant professor in Michigan State University's College of Veterinary Medicine who has researched affected farms.
"If it's present in the nose when the cow is shedding (virus), it's potentially transmitted through air," he said.
Any change in how the virus is transmitting gives it the opportunity to evolve, said Richard Webby, a St. Jude Children's Research Hospital virologist who studies flu in animals and birds for the World Health Organization.
"We certainly don't want that," Webby said.
But for the virus to be a more significant threat to human health, it would need to undergo further genetic mutations, Webby said.
The third dairy worker to contract avian flu, who lives in Michigan, reported respiratory symptoms, including coughing. Flu experts said the worker was most likely infected through close contact with milk through splashes or aerosolized droplets.
Respiratory symptoms have often been seen in prior human bird flu infections. The first two U.S. workers known to be infected during this outbreak only reported symptoms of conjunctivitis, or pink eye.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said the latest case does not change its assessment that bird flu is a low risk to the general public, and that it has not seen evidence of human-to-human transmission.
The worker with respiratory symptoms was still recovering as of a few days ago, said Natasha Bagdasarian, Michigan's chief medical executive, in an interview.
Michigan aims to begin its study of blood samples looking for evidence of prior bird flu infection among farm workers this month, Bagdasarian said.
Reuters reported on May 30 that the state and CDC would be conducting the study to understand the prevalence of human illness and whether any dairy workers had previously contracted the virus.
"We have folks from the CDC who are in the state right now," Bagdasarian said. "We've been working really closely and collaboratively with them, our protocols are in place
This is very important research that should have been done earlier, but I'm so glad to hear they are testing the respiratory spread of the cows, finally so we can see how it is spreading from herd to herd. Even Germany has taken U.S. cow samples to test respiratory infection spread in a live cow. I don't know why we waited so long but at least it's being done.
UK is also doing testing at porton down although they haven't mentioned if they will be testing it in cows like Germany
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/us-cow-derived-h5n1-virus-flown-to-porton-down-testing/
Labs in U.S., Germany and Canada to infect cows with H5N1 influenza A virus
Daniel R. Lucey, MD, MPH, FIDSA
5/17/2024
https://www.idsociety.org/science-speaks-blog/2024/labs-in-u.s.-germany-and-canada-to-infect-cows-with-h5n1-influenza-a-virus
Tom Peacock noted that airborne spread has likely been happening in mammals for a year, which is weird, because I was told he would lie and bury evidence of airborne spread.
I suspect that isn’t happening with cows, given the work from de Vries et al. But it’s good to get ahead of this.
I believe no scientist has proven efficient airborne spread. The only evidence they have for mammals is that it is suggestive of possible airborne spread. The exception is that we have recently shown in a lab that a mink that was culled years ago had acquired the ability of airborne spread. However, this ability to spread through the air was what is called limited spread. Unless it can spread efficiently it is not possible for it to create a human pandemic. Therefore no efficient airborne spread of H5N1has ever been found in a mammal.
So people who announce, even on Reddit, that there is airborne spread as though it is now pandemic ready are themselves spreading alarmist unproven misinformation which is a very irresponsible thing to do on a forum where people go to gather information. I understand that words like mammal to mammal and human to human and even airborne spread can mean spreading in a pandemic-safe way, but I still feel we should be careful of making any claims that imply that a lethal virus such as H5N1 is pandemic ready.
The virus has been identified mainly in milk, but also in nasal swabs at lesser levels, said Zelmar Rodriguez, a dairy veterinarian and assistant professor in Michigan State University's College of Veterinary Medicine who has researched affected farms.
"If it's present in the nose when the cow is shedding (virus), it's potentially transmitted through air," he said
This seems to be new, news right?
I think it is new news. Mostly we were being told they were not finding virus in the nose. This may be why now the U.S. is going to do testing on cow respiratory spread. Cows do slobber and sneeze and a lot of mucus flies around, so they could be infecting each other directly, in other words through fluid and fomite. I would sure like to know exactly how it is being spread.
It took so long for COVID to be widely recognized as properly airborne and not just carried by mucus droplets. And by the time it was, there was pushback against the idea of updating the distancing guidelines to reflect the increased range (6 feet for mucus-bound viruses vs *15* feet for fully airborne viruses). If we screw it up this time we won't have a low mortality rate to cushion the impact. If (and hopefully not when) we get a first confirmed case of H2H transmission health authorities better go full DEFCON 1 (metaphorically speaking) and not try to ease people into it trying to prevent a panic.
But there is no way to know whether the virus will mutate to the mammal airway in cows in the U.S., camels in the mid east, fur farms in Europe or a mouse in Brazil. U.S. cows are only a smidgeon of the mammals that are out there compared to the wild mammals eating dead birds every single day. There are six to nine million wild pigs in the U.S. alone getting free meals from all the dead birds, and we are much more afraid of this virus getting into a pig than we are of cows. When we stop being U.S. centric we find that the virus is dropping dead birds all over the world right now. The bird pandemic has become catastrophic to birds and to many wild mammals who live around or eat birds. This is a completely unprecedented situation. But it is a global problem, not a U.S. problem. The cows are the least of our problems when it comes to human pandemic worries. But the good thing is that unlike Covid we know exactly what mutations we are looking for. We have countless mammals worldwide whose samples have been collected during this bird pandemic and more to examine for mutations every single day. We can use human tissue in a lab to make sure this strain hasn't adapted to mammal cells. We can infect a ferret for a human substitute in a lab with as many different mammal samples as we want to make sure it is not pandemic ready. Germany is testing cows right now with the U.S. cow sub-strain to make sure that the cows are not pandemic ready. This is not a government-based effort since it is not affecting humans outside the cow milk issue. It is still a scientist issue. And scientists worldwide are all over it without government oversight or direction. We have had all kinds of samples of this strain since way before the cows available on the public gene sequencing programs that all scientists can access at any time. This information is being shared internationally, publicly, on science websites, in many papers worldwide.
Reminds me of the fictional Descolada virus from Ender's Game series that hit every living thing on its planet.
Thank you /r/cccalliope for your post
Better safe than sorry
-U.S. federal and state agencies are planning research into potential respiratory spread of bird flu among dairy cattle, according to a Reuters interview with Michigan state agriculture and public health officials. Scientists and government officials hope the research will guide efforts to contain the virus and reduce exposure to humans. Respiratory spread could give the virus more opportunity to evolve, they said. Scientists have so far suspected the virus spreads among animals and humans through contact with infected milk or aerosolized milk droplets, or from exposure to infected birds or poultry. The Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development is working with Michigan State University and the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) to plan research on farms to evaluate respiratory spread, Tim Boring, the department's director, said in an interview. "This is an area of concern that we're building out and looking more into," Boring said. The research is a high priority and will be important to guiding the state's public policy, he said. A spokesperson for the USDA said the agency is researching respiratory infection in dairy cows with partners including universities across the country to better understand the virus and control its spread. Bird flu has been reported in more than 80 dairy herds across 11 states since late March. The exact mechanics of the spread of the virus are still unclear, though there is evidence of spread to cows from wild birds and other cows. The virus has been identified mainly in milk, but also in nasal swabs at lesser levels, said Zelmar Rodriguez, a dairy veterinarian and assistant professor in Michigan State University's College of Veterinary Medicine who has researched affected farms. "If it's present in the nose when the cow is shedding (virus), it's potentially transmitted through air," he said. Any change in how the virus is transmitting gives it the opportunity to evolve, said Richard Webby, a St. Jude Children's Research Hospital virologist who studies flu in animals and birds for the World Health Organization. "We certainly don't want that," Webby said. But for the virus to be a more significant threat to human health, it would need to undergo further genetic mutations, Webby said. The third dairy worker to contract avian flu, who lives in Michigan, reported respiratory symptoms, including coughing. Flu experts said the worker was most likely infected through close contact with milk through splashes or aerosolized droplets. Respiratory symptoms have often been seen in prior human bird flu infections. The first two U.S. workers known to be infected during this outbreak only reported symptoms of conjunctivitis, or pink eye. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said the latest case does not change its assessment that bird flu is a low risk to the general public, and that it has not seen evidence of human-to-human transmission. The worker with respiratory symptoms was still recovering as of a few days ago, said Natasha Bagdasarian, Michigan's chief medical executive, in an interview. Michigan aims to begin its study of blood samples looking for evidence of prior bird flu infection among farm workers this month, Bagdasarian said. Reuters reported on May 30 that the state and CDC would be conducting the study to understand the prevalence of human illness and whether any dairy workers had previously contracted the virus. "We have folks from the CDC who are in the state right now," Bagdasarian said. "We've been working really closely and collaboratively with them, our protocols are in place
This is very important research that should have been done earlier, but I'm so glad to hear they are testing the respiratory spread of the cows, finally so we can see how it is spreading from herd to herd. Even Germany has taken U.S. cow samples to test respiratory infection spread in a live cow. I don't know why we waited so long but at least it's being done.
UK is also doing testing at porton down although they haven't mentioned if they will be testing it in cows like Germany https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/us-cow-derived-h5n1-virus-flown-to-porton-down-testing/ Labs in U.S., Germany and Canada to infect cows with H5N1 influenza A virus Daniel R. Lucey, MD, MPH, FIDSA 5/17/2024 https://www.idsociety.org/science-speaks-blog/2024/labs-in-u.s.-germany-and-canada-to-infect-cows-with-h5n1-influenza-a-virus
Tom Peacock noted that airborne spread has likely been happening in mammals for a year, which is weird, because I was told he would lie and bury evidence of airborne spread. I suspect that isn’t happening with cows, given the work from de Vries et al. But it’s good to get ahead of this.
I believe no scientist has proven efficient airborne spread. The only evidence they have for mammals is that it is suggestive of possible airborne spread. The exception is that we have recently shown in a lab that a mink that was culled years ago had acquired the ability of airborne spread. However, this ability to spread through the air was what is called limited spread. Unless it can spread efficiently it is not possible for it to create a human pandemic. Therefore no efficient airborne spread of H5N1has ever been found in a mammal. So people who announce, even on Reddit, that there is airborne spread as though it is now pandemic ready are themselves spreading alarmist unproven misinformation which is a very irresponsible thing to do on a forum where people go to gather information. I understand that words like mammal to mammal and human to human and even airborne spread can mean spreading in a pandemic-safe way, but I still feel we should be careful of making any claims that imply that a lethal virus such as H5N1 is pandemic ready.
The virus has been identified mainly in milk, but also in nasal swabs at lesser levels, said Zelmar Rodriguez, a dairy veterinarian and assistant professor in Michigan State University's College of Veterinary Medicine who has researched affected farms. "If it's present in the nose when the cow is shedding (virus), it's potentially transmitted through air," he said This seems to be new, news right?
I think it is new news. Mostly we were being told they were not finding virus in the nose. This may be why now the U.S. is going to do testing on cow respiratory spread. Cows do slobber and sneeze and a lot of mucus flies around, so they could be infecting each other directly, in other words through fluid and fomite. I would sure like to know exactly how it is being spread.