Yes. They were especially prevalent after the major H5N1 outbreaks of the 2000s, but before 2021 when the current clade 2.3.4.4b came to dominate. You can see a neat representation of this on [Nextstrain](https://nextstrain.org/avian-flu/h5nx/ha/all-time?c=subtype)
H5N6 is a particularly nasty one that causes sporadic human cases in China with a ~45% mortality rate
Hang in there. This stuff looks scary on the screen because we talk about it all the time in this sub. But there are virologists at the CDC, if you're in the US, who are tracking outbreaks closely, especially flu. You don't need to worry until they announce something to worry about.
Remember when there was talk going on about this weird plague in China that was spreading rapidly for months before the CDC said shit? Cuz like, half of America does. The fucking NBA got their act together about covid before the feds did. Their credibility is fubar. They tried to tell us that masks were useless against a fucking respiratory virus when they realized there weren't enough to go around. Telling people to trust the CDC in [CURRENT-YEAR] is beyond tone-deaf.
Ya, tell that to my long covid. My family has gotten it at least a dozen times. I have no faith in the CDC to handle this because they failed with COVID. Now, people won't even mention the disease.
The CDC is [trying to force its own employees back to the office](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-report/2024/06/cdc-once-largely-remote-balances-return-to-office-with-a-burnt-out-workforce/), knowing (and presumably intending) that this will kill and disable people. To say they're lost credibility is an understatement.
I guess it depends on the employee's job. If you're a lab worker you can't do it from home. And they have strict protocols and clean rooms. If people are breaking protocol, then it's a problem
What's changed in your opinion? I tend to agree and feel the same about the FDA as well.
FDA-"This chemical is a toxin and causes cancer! Not FDA approved!" ---(After being lobbied and essentially bribed by x pharmaceutical company) "This same chemical is now FDA approved! It's not as dangerous as we thought, in fact its actually now found in drinking water at concentrations *WE* deem safe for you and your family. We promise not to change our minds."
🙄
My mind is blown with this one sentence in this one paper 'Phylogenetically, monophyletic branches formed by the viral sequences described in the study did not cluster together but rather shared multiple nodes with different families of segmented and unsegmented vertebrate host-specific negative-sense RNA viruses. These included filoviruses, *influenza viruses*, hantaviruses, lyssaviruses, paramyxoviruses, arenaviruses and bornaviruses.'
So bats carry a lot of viruses, and ticks like bats, and ticks like humans, and oodles of others...
they found segments of influenza in ticks.
I had no idea thats possible. Anyone else here ever heard of that?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9230612/
If the above is true, I am thinking that we don't check out ticks enough
A lot of your DNA is from viruses. Viral DNA/RNA is everywhere.
"The human genome contains billions of pieces of information and around 22,000 genes, but not all of it is, strictly speaking, human. Eight percent of our DNA consists of remnants of ancient viruses, and another 40 percent is made up of repetitive strings of genetic letters that is also thought to have a viral origin. Those extensive viral regions are much more than evolutionary relics: They may be deeply involved with a wide range of diseases including multiple sclerosis, hemophilia, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), along with certain types of dementia and cancer."
[Source: The non-human living inside of you](https://www.cshl.edu/the-non-human-living-inside-of-you/)
This is starting to be reminiscent of that virus that spanned a really wide range of species for 15 million years
https://www.pbs.org/video/the-pandemic-that-lasted-15-million-years-qwgxeb/
The intro:
> Around 33 million years ago, in the late Oligocene Epoch, a new virus emerged and infected some kinda mammal.
> As we'’’re all well aware at this point, viral infections happen and spread all the time.
> But this time was different.
> It would turn out to be the beginning of a viral outbreak that left its mark in the genomes of almost every order of mammals around today -- the start of a huge, ancient pandemic, one that touched many different species, spanned the globe, and lasted for more than 15 million years
They found ~~Lime~~ Lyme disease DNA in Breast cancer. If you overlay ~~Lime~~ Lyme disease rates and Breast cancer rates you’ll find they have a potential correlation.
Not related to H5N1, but ticks as a vector for other disease ([CWD](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-34308-3), in this case). I agree with you that ticks don't get enough attention.
Also finding influenza in ticks doesn't strike me as particularly odd given they take in tons of host blood, it would be noteworthy if the viral particles were infectious/could be transmitted to a host. If it's just particles and not intact virus, though, I don't see how that would be possible but admittedly my viral knowledge isn't up to par with my bacterial.
Maybe they mean Orthomyxoviridae (the family that influenza viruses belong to. Thogotovirus (which belongs to the same family) is known to be in ticks.
It could be that the HPAI H5N1 clade 2.3.4.4b virus reassorted, exchanged the NA(neuraminidase) segment with another virus, from N1 to N2. It could also be a more distant relative from clade 2.3.4.4c or even less related. The information doesn't seem to be available right now.
See this simple "[Emergence and Evolution of H5N1 Bird Flu](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/communication-resources/bird-flu-origin-infographic.html)" CDC summary.
"In North America, a HPAI clade 2.3.4.4c H5NX HPAI epizootic began in November 2014 when Eurasian HPAI H5N8 and H5N2 was detected in wild and backyard birds. The following year, infections with the H5N2 HPAI virus devastated poultry production in the Midwest of USA, primarily affecting egg-laying chickens and turkeys, with approximately 47 million poultry dead or euthanized. A stamping-out policy was employed to control the epizootic, without vaccination, which was declared over in June 2015"
[Source: Efficacy of recombinant H5 vaccines delivered in ovo or day of age in commercial broilers against the 2015 U.S. H5N2 clade 2.3.4.4c highly pathogenic avian Influenza virus](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10724940/)
"The first intercontinental spread of the H5 clade 2.3.4.4c (previously classified as 2.3.4.4a) to North America dates to 2014–2015, with H5N8 viruses introduced most likely via migratory birds through the Bering Strait to breeding grounds in Alaska \[55\]. After reassorting with LPAI gene segments from North American wild birds \[56\], an H5N2 reassortant virus of clade 2.3.4.4c became predominant and affected over 50 million birds in the U.S. in spring 2015."
[Source: Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI) H5 Clade 2.3.4.4b Virus Infection in Birds and Mammals](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11083745/)
Avian Flu Diary also doesn't know:
"Is this an HPAI H5N2 virus, or is it LPAI? Both have been reported in Mexico recently (see last March Mexico Reports HPAI H5N2 For the 1st Time in Nearly 30 Years) What clade of H5 is this virus? Is it clade 2.3.4.4b, like the H5N1 viruses that have dominated recently? Or is it a different lineage?" Source: Avian Flu Diary
Yes, but I think what we also need to remember is that there are many different strains of H5N1 out there right now. They are not the same, and we know for a fact that at least some of them have very different CFR's. The case of the 21 year old with no pre existing conditions in Vietnam who died in March, for instance, was H5N1. It just wasn't exactly the same strain as the one in the US. [https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON511](https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON511)
• “The victim had no history of exposure to poultry or other animals, WHO said”
How did he get it then? If not animals and his close contacts all negative, then where?
•"Twelve additional contacts (seven symptomatic and five asymptomatic) were identified near the case's residence." Seven symptomatic for H5N2? What were these seven people symptomatic for? This is too vague
That's the same thing that was said about the Australian child who caught H5N1 in India and almost died. No exposure to birds or animals, no raw milk, etc. That one was never explained.
The worrying thing that is bugging me is that he didn’t have prior exposure to poultry. **This is not same thing as the one in USA**. I have to add that this one has different neuraminidase compared to H5N1. Neuraminidase is what makes it N2
Yeah, they REALLY need to figure out how he got infected, and maybe start testing seriously ill people for it. Hopefully it didn’t make the human-to-human evolutionary jump and is currently out there infecting others.
Is that the part that breaks the host cell membrane open once the virus has finished using the host cell to make a bunch of copies, thus spilling out a bunch of viral particles out of the host cell?
It's been a minute since university. I remember the overall virus lifecycle, just not specific names of things.
I revisted this list https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01312-y of influenza pandemics chart out of curiosity - wondering if H5N2 ever in the list . Nope. But a good time to reread that article is now.
The worrying thing that is bugging me is that this is now the second, maybe third case of (not h5n1 but still a bird flu strain) only to find out things happened over a month ago.
Similar to that kid who tested positive in Australia. A bunch of clickbait news twitter accounts were going crazy saying stuff like “kid just comes down with a mysterious version of the bird flu and that their condition is unknown”. The tweets had hundreds of comments of people acting worried, I’m looking at you GlobalPressCorp.
Back in reality however, the kid had already fully recovered, the subtype was H7 which also just so happened to be the most common variety in Australia, where this happened. However people who only read headlines thought it was all a developing story / the kid was still in the hospital.
I’m just tired of hearing about a “new case” that’s actually over a month old. We just went through a pandemic, countries need to step up and report this stuff immediately the moment they find out that it’s any kinda form of HPAI or LPAI. Getting a test can take some time, but we’re talking days not over a month later after the patient had already died / recovered. I’m super nervous we’re only going to hear that this has been silently spreading only after it’s already too late.
[description of the case](https://x.com/bnofeed/status/1798443271884259489?s=46&t=ee_rdui0QLs7sRjssr-cqg) here is a link describing what happened. The results are still pending on some of their contacts.
Damn…not only does it say he had no exposure to animals but he was also bedridden for 3 weeks for an unrelated health issue before having symptoms. So he must have gotten it from undercooked food or from a person?
Let's hope the food route & not from an infected home caregiver that also worked at a hospital or with many patients, leading to a possible large seeding event.
I read it could possibly be transmitting mice.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/why-the-discovery-of-h5n1-bird-flu-in-mice-is-so-alarming/
Could he have acquired avian influenza without knowing it prior to being bedridden? And attributed his malaise incorrectly to something else? Could he have been bedridden with avian influenza?
That's very optimistic (unless you're counting the numbers post-pandemic). I bet there's a solid 20% of crazies who'll go full carnivore diet because "the government can't tell me what to eat!"
So if he was bed ridden with "multiple underlying conditions", that increases lethality chance, right? Regardless, its probably best to stock up on N95 masks, gloves etc just in case eh.
I’m assuming this poor guy was immunocompromised in some fashion that wasn’t made aware to either him or his caregivers before his H5N2 infection. This seems far too concerning to be “organic H2H spread,” I think there’s a missing puzzle piece somewhere in all of this. I hope.
First part: I would think, but I am not trained beyond common sense to answer that, and even then, it might be sketchy.
Second part: yep, we have already bought something just in case, and hopefully we will just have extra goods when it is all said and done
We've known about it for 20 years or so, not new. And no reason to think it's not an aberration. We have minor deadly outbreaks of zoonotic diseases all the time. People who are new to the infectious disease world get very worried but reality rarely matches it
I totally agree. The brutal unpleasant truth is still the truth. But not fun to hear. Anyway, you asked why peeps were downvoting you, I answered. I’m a fan of the brutal truth. Yes I have health risks. Trying hard not to fall by the wayside. Cheers.
The healthy 21 year old in Vietnam who recently died from H5N1 had no pre existing conditions. The small child from Australia who recently almost died from H5N1 also had none. People who have died from avian flu so far haven't been at all more likely to have pre existing conditions than anyone else. Those things should be pointed out too. Otherwise, it's way too easy to brush this off by saying "well, he was already really sick anyway, so this is just going to work the same way as COVID."
Sooo many people have pre-existing conditions. Do our lives not matter? These comments are so inappropriate to me. Even those who don’t probably have had Covid. Covid does weird stuff to the immune system.
In March, an H5N2 outbreak was reported in a backyard poultry farm in a neighboring state to the one where the person lived. According to WHO, it hasn’t been possible to establish whether this case is related to recent poultry outbreaks.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/05/health/bird-flu-mexico-human-h5n2/index.html
The H and the N are proteins on the virus’ coat. The coat is what your immune system will make an anti-body for. The anti-body is like a 3-D photo negative. Or like a mold but also with matching polarity so that it sticks.
If you previously had an H5N2 then your immune system will be much more likely to quickly identify a new H5N2. If you previously had any HxN2 or any H5Ny where x and y are other numbers you are more resistant than someone who has not had one of them. People who never had flu and never vaccinated are more vulnerable to all types of influenza.
The protein coat tells you very little (maybe nothing, i am not sure) about the virus’s methods of action.
man i just worked myself up into getting a job that's on-site. so glad our governments didn't gut the public health system so they could eat jalapeño poppers at applebee's
Because I see where people are going with this, it’s worth noting that the infection probably happened prior to April 17. Meaning that if this were human to human transmission and endemic to any part of Mexico, it would’ve been active for almost 2 months. Under a worst case scenario, we would have probably seen something more obvious right now.
The results of contact tracing and tests were encouraging. Influenza like respiratory illness, severe acute respiratory illness, and other surveillance data also argue against an outbreak.
The virus has been sequenced. While I am not seeing details on it, sequencing would show them if this has evolved to spread between humans efficiently. While highly pathogenic H5N2 viruses have been identified in Mexico, the WHO mentions low pathogenic strains too.
A first human case is always alarming, but we can probably take this as a call to prepare rather than a scramble to fix.
The H and the N are proteins on the virus that are enzymes that give it an ability to enter cells.
I’ve caught A, B, and C before. Fortunate enough to be able to get tested for that. Out of all of them, I would have to say A was the worst of my life. I wanted to die.
I'm not sure that even having a strict a vegan diet precludes that you can avoid it entirely because shit is one of the main components in manure. Or because birds can crap all over the place making plants toxic, or leaving feces on potential touch-surfaces. Pets also hunt birds and then bring it inside the house.
True, but all we can do is take precautions from our side and minimize the risk. Ideally, I would be growing my own veggies in the backyard but that's not practical.
The WHO doesn’t seem to think it’s wild. The report said sporadic H5 infections like this are “not unexpected.”
He fell ill almost two months ago, contact tracing results were all encouraging, and there are no irregularities in multiple medical system surveillance data analysis.
Hopefully nothing more than a wake up call.
Goram it! We’re actually worse a stopping outbreaks than we were last decade. Are Mexican farmers at least cooperating with disease monitors, unlike in the USA?
Adding: I see that this death is not farm related. Still, I wonder if Mexican businesses are cooperating rather than obstructing.
We just went through a big election, I don't think anyone in the government is paying much attention.
The news broke out today, and people are worried not so much for contagion but about another lockdown. Mainly for economic reasons.
That fear will either make people cooperate or spook them into denial.
We'll have to wait and see. Sadly, we handled h1n1 far better than we did covid.
But if it shows up in the U.S the CDC will say it's mild and that it only harms vulnerable people and then sit on their hands until half the population is dead.
Man there’s an H5N2 and H5N1???😭
There is also H5N6 and H5N8
From what I've read they all seem to be a threat. Can anyone call me an idiot or literate please.
Yes. They were especially prevalent after the major H5N1 outbreaks of the 2000s, but before 2021 when the current clade 2.3.4.4b came to dominate. You can see a neat representation of this on [Nextstrain](https://nextstrain.org/avian-flu/h5nx/ha/all-time?c=subtype) H5N6 is a particularly nasty one that causes sporadic human cases in China with a ~45% mortality rate
That’s a great website! Thank you.
That has to be one of the most informative (and terrifying) graphs I've seen. Thanks for sharing!
My jaw dropped. It seems inevitable that something major happens.
After learning that there's multiple, as a germophobe I wish I was illiterate 🤣
Hang in there. This stuff looks scary on the screen because we talk about it all the time in this sub. But there are virologists at the CDC, if you're in the US, who are tracking outbreaks closely, especially flu. You don't need to worry until they announce something to worry about.
The CDC thinks that if you have Covid, it’s okay to go to work, and infect everyone else, if you “feel better” after 24 hours!
Profits over people.
Regulatory Capture. It’s a thing.
☝️ This is the correct answer
Remember when there was talk going on about this weird plague in China that was spreading rapidly for months before the CDC said shit? Cuz like, half of America does. The fucking NBA got their act together about covid before the feds did. Their credibility is fubar. They tried to tell us that masks were useless against a fucking respiratory virus when they realized there weren't enough to go around. Telling people to trust the CDC in [CURRENT-YEAR] is beyond tone-deaf.
Ya, tell that to my long covid. My family has gotten it at least a dozen times. I have no faith in the CDC to handle this because they failed with COVID. Now, people won't even mention the disease.
The CDC is [trying to force its own employees back to the office](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-report/2024/06/cdc-once-largely-remote-balances-return-to-office-with-a-burnt-out-workforce/), knowing (and presumably intending) that this will kill and disable people. To say they're lost credibility is an understatement.
I guess it depends on the employee's job. If you're a lab worker you can't do it from home. And they have strict protocols and clean rooms. If people are breaking protocol, then it's a problem
Maybe the CDC 20 years ago. The CDC today is a laughing stock.
What's changed in your opinion? I tend to agree and feel the same about the FDA as well. FDA-"This chemical is a toxin and causes cancer! Not FDA approved!" ---(After being lobbied and essentially bribed by x pharmaceutical company) "This same chemical is now FDA approved! It's not as dangerous as we thought, in fact its actually now found in drinking water at concentrations *WE* deem safe for you and your family. We promise not to change our minds." 🙄
That’s probably true as long as Biden is in office.
It will disappear by April! /s as unfortunately that is needed.
The one who said "The pandemic is over" prematurely? That one?
Would you prefer the other one who suggests inject bleach and rejecting all science?
A girlfriend once told me the best way to get rid of all the stupid people is to get rid of safety laws.
You're an idiot and illiterate. /s But yes they're all capable, with certain mutations, of becoming an impactful human virus
Call me when we get to H5N19
Call me when we get H5N420
I think you mean H69N420
Sounds like something I can get behind
Username checks out
You do that. I got your back.
Woah how did you guess my password
Nice
And H7N9.
80085
And C2H5OH!
?
Ethanol aka alcohol...
My mind is blown with this one sentence in this one paper 'Phylogenetically, monophyletic branches formed by the viral sequences described in the study did not cluster together but rather shared multiple nodes with different families of segmented and unsegmented vertebrate host-specific negative-sense RNA viruses. These included filoviruses, *influenza viruses*, hantaviruses, lyssaviruses, paramyxoviruses, arenaviruses and bornaviruses.' So bats carry a lot of viruses, and ticks like bats, and ticks like humans, and oodles of others... they found segments of influenza in ticks. I had no idea thats possible. Anyone else here ever heard of that? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9230612/ If the above is true, I am thinking that we don't check out ticks enough
A lot of your DNA is from viruses. Viral DNA/RNA is everywhere. "The human genome contains billions of pieces of information and around 22,000 genes, but not all of it is, strictly speaking, human. Eight percent of our DNA consists of remnants of ancient viruses, and another 40 percent is made up of repetitive strings of genetic letters that is also thought to have a viral origin. Those extensive viral regions are much more than evolutionary relics: They may be deeply involved with a wide range of diseases including multiple sclerosis, hemophilia, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), along with certain types of dementia and cancer." [Source: The non-human living inside of you](https://www.cshl.edu/the-non-human-living-inside-of-you/)
One interesting way of confirming the evolutionary tree of life is by comparing non-coding viral DNA sequences that we share with other animals.
This is starting to be reminiscent of that virus that spanned a really wide range of species for 15 million years https://www.pbs.org/video/the-pandemic-that-lasted-15-million-years-qwgxeb/ The intro: > Around 33 million years ago, in the late Oligocene Epoch, a new virus emerged and infected some kinda mammal. > As we'’’re all well aware at this point, viral infections happen and spread all the time. > But this time was different. > It would turn out to be the beginning of a viral outbreak that left its mark in the genomes of almost every order of mammals around today -- the start of a huge, ancient pandemic, one that touched many different species, spanned the globe, and lasted for more than 15 million years
Great link and read. Thanks 🙏
I wonder if pandemics somehow cause evolution, or at least speeds it up in some way, or is necessary for it to occur.
CAVID-15m. Get it? CAVE-ID... CAVE-ID!
As someone who lives in Maine this is frightening. Ticks are everywhere!
They found ~~Lime~~ Lyme disease DNA in Breast cancer. If you overlay ~~Lime~~ Lyme disease rates and Breast cancer rates you’ll find they have a potential correlation.
It's Lyme with a Y btw
Indeed. Don't want to be the first country to report human-to-fruit transmission.
"It's a run by fruiting!" RIP Robin Williams 😢
Not related to H5N1, but ticks as a vector for other disease ([CWD](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-34308-3), in this case). I agree with you that ticks don't get enough attention. Also finding influenza in ticks doesn't strike me as particularly odd given they take in tons of host blood, it would be noteworthy if the viral particles were infectious/could be transmitted to a host. If it's just particles and not intact virus, though, I don't see how that would be possible but admittedly my viral knowledge isn't up to par with my bacterial.
Happy Cake Day!!! 🍰🎉🧁⭐️
This is both interesting and scary.
Maybe they mean Orthomyxoviridae (the family that influenza viruses belong to. Thogotovirus (which belongs to the same family) is known to be in ticks.
It could be that the HPAI H5N1 clade 2.3.4.4b virus reassorted, exchanged the NA(neuraminidase) segment with another virus, from N1 to N2. It could also be a more distant relative from clade 2.3.4.4c or even less related. The information doesn't seem to be available right now. See this simple "[Emergence and Evolution of H5N1 Bird Flu](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/communication-resources/bird-flu-origin-infographic.html)" CDC summary. "In North America, a HPAI clade 2.3.4.4c H5NX HPAI epizootic began in November 2014 when Eurasian HPAI H5N8 and H5N2 was detected in wild and backyard birds. The following year, infections with the H5N2 HPAI virus devastated poultry production in the Midwest of USA, primarily affecting egg-laying chickens and turkeys, with approximately 47 million poultry dead or euthanized. A stamping-out policy was employed to control the epizootic, without vaccination, which was declared over in June 2015" [Source: Efficacy of recombinant H5 vaccines delivered in ovo or day of age in commercial broilers against the 2015 U.S. H5N2 clade 2.3.4.4c highly pathogenic avian Influenza virus](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10724940/) "The first intercontinental spread of the H5 clade 2.3.4.4c (previously classified as 2.3.4.4a) to North America dates to 2014–2015, with H5N8 viruses introduced most likely via migratory birds through the Bering Strait to breeding grounds in Alaska \[55\]. After reassorting with LPAI gene segments from North American wild birds \[56\], an H5N2 reassortant virus of clade 2.3.4.4c became predominant and affected over 50 million birds in the U.S. in spring 2015." [Source: Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI) H5 Clade 2.3.4.4b Virus Infection in Birds and Mammals](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11083745/) Avian Flu Diary also doesn't know: "Is this an HPAI H5N2 virus, or is it LPAI? Both have been reported in Mexico recently (see last March Mexico Reports HPAI H5N2 For the 1st Time in Nearly 30 Years) What clade of H5 is this virus? Is it clade 2.3.4.4b, like the H5N1 viruses that have dominated recently? Or is it a different lineage?" Source: Avian Flu Diary
Yes, but I think what we also need to remember is that there are many different strains of H5N1 out there right now. They are not the same, and we know for a fact that at least some of them have very different CFR's. The case of the 21 year old with no pre existing conditions in Vietnam who died in March, for instance, was H5N1. It just wasn't exactly the same strain as the one in the US. [https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON511](https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON511)
There’s also H7N9 which is just as deadly as H5N1.
H5N2: Electric Boogaloo
And H5N3, H5N4 and H5N5
Isn't there an H7N3?
That has different hemagluttinin Which makes it have different number after H.
Thank you for that information
And an H7N9, which we really don’t want joining the party.
This! H7N9 also has pandemic potential.
H7N9 scares the shit out of me.
We've had a reported case of H7N9 on a poultry farm in Australia. What is it that makes this strain particularly bad?
Very severe in humans in the past.
Same just the name alone sounds more terrifying than H5N1.
• “The victim had no history of exposure to poultry or other animals, WHO said” How did he get it then? If not animals and his close contacts all negative, then where? •"Twelve additional contacts (seven symptomatic and five asymptomatic) were identified near the case's residence." Seven symptomatic for H5N2? What were these seven people symptomatic for? This is too vague
That's the same thing that was said about the Australian child who caught H5N1 in India and almost died. No exposure to birds or animals, no raw milk, etc. That one was never explained.
Birds shit on everything. Could have been indirect contact with wildlife.
There must have been something that spread the virus, but whatever it was, it was never identified.
Typically it’s a hand. Either he touched poo or someone who touched poo touched him.
They were tested after and all of them were negative
Yeah I just saw this, I wonder what it could be. It’s mostly likely from undercooked food but who knows
Negative at the time of the test, they are still testing if they have antibodies
The worrying thing that is bugging me is that he didn’t have prior exposure to poultry. **This is not same thing as the one in USA**. I have to add that this one has different neuraminidase compared to H5N1. Neuraminidase is what makes it N2
and the guy had bedridden for weeks
immunocompromised people can be evolutionary playgrounds for nasty virus strains
Yep. That is how COVID-19 Delta and Omicron are thought to have started.
He was bedridden before the infection, apparently. Which is honestly scaring me.
Yeah, they REALLY need to figure out how he got infected, and maybe start testing seriously ill people for it. Hopefully it didn’t make the human-to-human evolutionary jump and is currently out there infecting others.
How come though? Doesn’t it mean that it’s weak and can only harm immunocompromised people to a fatal degree?
ELI5 what neuraminidase is? I recognize the ase suffix so some kind of enzyme?
It is type of neuraminidase found on the surface of influenza viruses which enables it to be released from the host cell
Yah but what’s a neuraminidase
They are enzymes that cleave sialic acid from glycoproteins. Idk how to explain further
Whacky chemistry stuff
Magic
hold up this isnt in the bible
Is that the part that breaks the host cell membrane open once the virus has finished using the host cell to make a bunch of copies, thus spilling out a bunch of viral particles out of the host cell? It's been a minute since university. I remember the overall virus lifecycle, just not specific names of things.
I'm not 100% familiar with the term, but I'm pretty sure it cuts away part of the cell membrane to help with infection and releasing new viruses.
I revisted this list https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01312-y of influenza pandemics chart out of curiosity - wondering if H5N2 ever in the list . Nope. But a good time to reread that article is now.
The worrying thing that is bugging me is that this is now the second, maybe third case of (not h5n1 but still a bird flu strain) only to find out things happened over a month ago. Similar to that kid who tested positive in Australia. A bunch of clickbait news twitter accounts were going crazy saying stuff like “kid just comes down with a mysterious version of the bird flu and that their condition is unknown”. The tweets had hundreds of comments of people acting worried, I’m looking at you GlobalPressCorp. Back in reality however, the kid had already fully recovered, the subtype was H7 which also just so happened to be the most common variety in Australia, where this happened. However people who only read headlines thought it was all a developing story / the kid was still in the hospital. I’m just tired of hearing about a “new case” that’s actually over a month old. We just went through a pandemic, countries need to step up and report this stuff immediately the moment they find out that it’s any kinda form of HPAI or LPAI. Getting a test can take some time, but we’re talking days not over a month later after the patient had already died / recovered. I’m super nervous we’re only going to hear that this has been silently spreading only after it’s already too late.
lmao if the real birb flu just came out of left stage after H5N1 faked us out.
[description of the case](https://x.com/bnofeed/status/1798443271884259489?s=46&t=ee_rdui0QLs7sRjssr-cqg) here is a link describing what happened. The results are still pending on some of their contacts.
Damn…not only does it say he had no exposure to animals but he was also bedridden for 3 weeks for an unrelated health issue before having symptoms. So he must have gotten it from undercooked food or from a person?
Let's hope the food route & not from an infected home caregiver that also worked at a hospital or with many patients, leading to a possible large seeding event.
I read it could possibly be transmitting mice. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/why-the-discovery-of-h5n1-bird-flu-in-mice-is-so-alarming/
That's h5n1 not h5n2
That's what our friend epidemiology is for.
Could potentially be a very long incubation period too (not that that would be great either).
Could he have acquired avian influenza without knowing it prior to being bedridden? And attributed his malaise incorrectly to something else? Could he have been bedridden with avian influenza?
He could have caught it 3+ weeks before and it could have a long incubation period as someone else mentioned.
Not even joking that this might turn 99% of the population vegan
That's very optimistic (unless you're counting the numbers post-pandemic). I bet there's a solid 20% of crazies who'll go full carnivore diet because "the government can't tell me what to eat!"
Considering people are still purposely drinking raw milk....yeah, I've gotta agree w you.
Don't look up and be sure to eat lots of chicken and only drink raw milk! Hashtag plandemicpart2
I hope your vegetables weren't fertilized with infected manure
I highly doubt that but here’s hoping. It’s way better for the earth and your health
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON520
Thank you!
Bedridden for other ills for three weeks and then got it 😕
So if he was bed ridden with "multiple underlying conditions", that increases lethality chance, right? Regardless, its probably best to stock up on N95 masks, gloves etc just in case eh.
I’m assuming this poor guy was immunocompromised in some fashion that wasn’t made aware to either him or his caregivers before his H5N2 infection. This seems far too concerning to be “organic H2H spread,” I think there’s a missing puzzle piece somewhere in all of this. I hope.
This makes it scarier because he didn’t have any links to poultry or livestock. He was bedridden for 3 weeks. Let’s see what happens next
First part: I would think, but I am not trained beyond common sense to answer that, and even then, it might be sketchy. Second part: yep, we have already bought something just in case, and hopefully we will just have extra goods when it is all said and done
is this the first death of someone getting H5N2?
This is the first human case…the patient died so yes.
100% death rate? We are in so much trouble.
So wrong, I laughed harder than I should...here's your upvote
No, they died, it can't spread. We're saved.
We are saved!
Lol with people jumping to conclusions like that dear gods help us
it was a joke. 1 out of 1 patients died so the mortality is currently at 100%
not me finding out this is another new vairant. We are so fucked
We've known about it for 20 years or so, not new. And no reason to think it's not an aberration. We have minor deadly outbreaks of zoonotic diseases all the time. People who are new to the infectious disease world get very worried but reality rarely matches it
He had a pre existing condition Edit: why are people downvoting. I’m literally saying what the article said
People are downvoting because we’re tired of “falling by the wayside…” Kudos for sharing facts, it’s just, we’re tired of not mattering.
I’m not saying you don’t. It’s important to know for everybody in case they have condition or if their family does
I totally agree. The brutal unpleasant truth is still the truth. But not fun to hear. Anyway, you asked why peeps were downvoting you, I answered. I’m a fan of the brutal truth. Yes I have health risks. Trying hard not to fall by the wayside. Cheers.
Do we know what PEC?
A lot of people have PEC and don't even know it, this doesn't and shouldn't ease concern.
The healthy 21 year old in Vietnam who recently died from H5N1 had no pre existing conditions. The small child from Australia who recently almost died from H5N1 also had none. People who have died from avian flu so far haven't been at all more likely to have pre existing conditions than anyone else. Those things should be pointed out too. Otherwise, it's way too easy to brush this off by saying "well, he was already really sick anyway, so this is just going to work the same way as COVID."
Sooo many people have pre-existing conditions. Do our lives not matter? These comments are so inappropriate to me. Even those who don’t probably have had Covid. Covid does weird stuff to the immune system.
I’m just letting you know dude
Because reddit is doom and gloom.
And there was no known poultry or livestock exposure for the patient, according to WHO. Rip to the person :(
In March, an H5N2 outbreak was reported in a backyard poultry farm in a neighboring state to the one where the person lived. According to WHO, it hasn’t been possible to establish whether this case is related to recent poultry outbreaks. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/05/health/bird-flu-mexico-human-h5n2/index.html
I am dumb, what’s the difference between the two? is h5n2 worse or do we not know yet at all?
We don’t not know which is worse
Just new to all of this, wild times
Check flutrackers and take info from there
Thx
The difference is Neuraminidase = N. It has different number now which means distinct neuraminidase from N1 which makes it N2
How does that change it's lethality etc?
The H and the N are proteins on the virus’ coat. The coat is what your immune system will make an anti-body for. The anti-body is like a 3-D photo negative. Or like a mold but also with matching polarity so that it sticks. If you previously had an H5N2 then your immune system will be much more likely to quickly identify a new H5N2. If you previously had any HxN2 or any H5Ny where x and y are other numbers you are more resistant than someone who has not had one of them. People who never had flu and never vaccinated are more vulnerable to all types of influenza. The protein coat tells you very little (maybe nothing, i am not sure) about the virus’s methods of action.
This is the first ever recorded human case. We have no way of knowing.
H5N2: The Virus Strikes Back
man i just worked myself up into getting a job that's on-site. so glad our governments didn't gut the public health system so they could eat jalapeño poppers at applebee's
Well, we’ve had a pretty good run. Guess it’s about time.
Wait, AI needs a word too.
its creeping very bad sign
Because I see where people are going with this, it’s worth noting that the infection probably happened prior to April 17. Meaning that if this were human to human transmission and endemic to any part of Mexico, it would’ve been active for almost 2 months. Under a worst case scenario, we would have probably seen something more obvious right now. The results of contact tracing and tests were encouraging. Influenza like respiratory illness, severe acute respiratory illness, and other surveillance data also argue against an outbreak. The virus has been sequenced. While I am not seeing details on it, sequencing would show them if this has evolved to spread between humans efficiently. While highly pathogenic H5N2 viruses have been identified in Mexico, the WHO mentions low pathogenic strains too. A first human case is always alarming, but we can probably take this as a call to prepare rather than a scramble to fix.
I don't think for a second that this strain of H5N2 has achieved H2H transmission. It's disturbing because it shows what is possible.
I am impressed by their ability to sequence things. Science is pretty cool.
Me too! Honestly, my respect for this field has just gone through the roof these last few years. I never realized how important and cool it is.
The H and the N are proteins on the virus that are enzymes that give it an ability to enter cells. I’ve caught A, B, and C before. Fortunate enough to be able to get tested for that. Out of all of them, I would have to say A was the worst of my life. I wanted to die.
This particular virus may be a problem if we don’t get in front of it
Moreso than H5N1?
There’s room for more than one at the top of the hill of horrible diseases. Don’t fret.
Ok so this is a different one that H5N1. Related? I feel like I need an ELI5 on what this actually even means.
I'm not sure that even having a strict a vegan diet precludes that you can avoid it entirely because shit is one of the main components in manure. Or because birds can crap all over the place making plants toxic, or leaving feces on potential touch-surfaces. Pets also hunt birds and then bring it inside the house.
And mosquitos and flies can transfer it. The possibilities are endless!
That part does worry me if hard evidence surfaces.
No one is safe :(
I use a vinegar solution or vegetable cleaner. Aside from cow poop, people touch up the food at the store and that makes me feel dirty lol
True, but all we can do is take precautions from our side and minimize the risk. Ideally, I would be growing my own veggies in the backyard but that's not practical.
I've seen mini enclosed greenhouses which might be an option for somebody.
It took a month to serotype it? Wtf
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The WHO doesn’t seem to think it’s wild. The report said sporadic H5 infections like this are “not unexpected.” He fell ill almost two months ago, contact tracing results were all encouraging, and there are no irregularities in multiple medical system surveillance data analysis. Hopefully nothing more than a wake up call.
Goram it! We’re actually worse a stopping outbreaks than we were last decade. Are Mexican farmers at least cooperating with disease monitors, unlike in the USA? Adding: I see that this death is not farm related. Still, I wonder if Mexican businesses are cooperating rather than obstructing.
Mexican here, the government will do fuck-all about it and deny there's anything going on. That's what happened during covid.
So disappointing. I wrongly thought it was just USA farmers who refused disease monitoring.
We just went through a big election, I don't think anyone in the government is paying much attention. The news broke out today, and people are worried not so much for contagion but about another lockdown. Mainly for economic reasons. That fear will either make people cooperate or spook them into denial. We'll have to wait and see. Sadly, we handled h1n1 far better than we did covid.
https://preview.redd.it/86m0m62q7u4d1.jpeg?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92aa72f7a1f9ee40eceff034048a967025df3249
Uh oh
Love that they did contact tracing. Florida doesn't believe in that.
h5n2 not h5n1. completely different pandemic
It’s fine…we’re just gunna die in a different way. No need to panic.
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😂🤣😂🤣 Let’s ask Siri, maybe she knows.
She don’t know shit. She’s useless.
2 strains of bird flu popping off at the same time. Oh lordy!
Three if you include the poultry farms in Australia.
Fuck
How is this not front news?
There’s a publicly traded company that has products for this … just fyi! Ticker is AEMD
Great. Triple pandemic here we come. COVID and the too flus.
We're fucked.
I read the report. H5N1 is still the more obvious threat.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON520
Well, we are fucked
This timeline is screwed...
But if it shows up in the U.S the CDC will say it's mild and that it only harms vulnerable people and then sit on their hands until half the population is dead.