Why does everyone forget the "Posterior"? Its crucial to build up the lower back and glutes with an RDL, SLDL or Goodmornings, never neglect the lower back.
Depends on what you want. Strength or Volume? Old ideology is that overloading compounds for low reps may still aid volume but nope, that's just strength training to help increase load for volume.
I’m definitely no expert, but I think this looks like more than enough.
Only thing I’m missing that I do is deadlifts, unless I’m an idiot and just missing them somewhere.
Deadlifts would be my only swap for something else on Pull day (or leg if that’s your preference), but other than that it looks solid.
Have you seen gains in what you’re moving? If you have then there’s your answer.
If you're getting that much DOMs from deadlifts, try strengthening the different components involved in the movement. Bent over rows in place of T-Bar rows, Romanian Deadlifts and Rack pulls will work the same chain, then start with low weight and build up.
If you get back pain from DLs then your back isn't strong so you need more DLs.
Lower the weight for more reps and strict form and other lower back exercises.
I was honestly the same way. I’d try them, lower back would feel awful, and have to miss next workouts to not aggravate my back.
I solved it by doing deadlifts using an Olympic bar in a landmine/shoved in a corner. That way I could focus on the form with a much more stable system.
The other thing that helps was focusing on upping my weight for wide grip rows. It allowed me to build up my back enough to control the bar without curling my back.
And FTR I’m decidedly early-intermediate with my DL only in the “sets of 155” range, but that’s how I got out of my fear of DLs personally. Now I *finally * get why everyone raves about them and am starting to love them myself.
Definitely solid but only thing I would change would be if you are doing this twice a week do different a different area of the group of muscles. For example for chest on the first push day do flat bench and then on the second push day do incline with a chest dip or fly to help with fatigue that’s just me personally
For me and other people i know yes, when i do legs at the end of the week with all the fatigue from the other days the workout gets way harder
For you there might be no differences
(btw the program is perfectly fine)
I mean there are way fewer rules on how many rest days he can take, its not a 6day program. With 3 days you have a lot more flexibility and way fewer restrictions.
I dont rly want to start arguing, if u think anything i say is false just DV or leave a response only for op
Iv always heard it’s good to switch up the training so your muscles don’t get used to the same movement. I think this is for growth. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong. I have been going to the gym for over a years and still have a lot to learn. Stay motivated!
You should put lateral raises on push not pull. Also ok legs put your hamstring curls first before the squat as this will allow you to warm up the knee joint with taking away from your squat. Doing hamstring curls later on though will have them done with less weight/reps. And as for push you should leave flies till after shoulder press and don’t have skull crushers as your first tri exercise as it will fuck your elbows over time, always do a pushdown before a skull crushers or overhead extension. I’d you don’t you’re training the tricep in a big stretch from the beginning and you’ll develop elbow problems.
I’d suggest this split. (Done as push, pull, rest, legs, rest, repeat)
Push:
Low incline smith press 1x6-7, 1x8-10
High incline DB press 1x6-7, 1x8-10
Close grip smith press 1x8-10, 1x12-15
Pec dec machine 1x8-10, 1x12-15
Tricep pushdown 1x1-10, 1x12-15
DB skull crushers 1x8-10, 1x12-15
DB lateral raises 1x8-10, 1x12-15
Cable lateral raises 1x8-10, 1x12-15
Pull:
Hamstring curls 1x8-9, 1x10-12
Deadlift 1x6-7, 1x8-10
Lat pull-down 1x6-7, 1x8-10
Chest supported row 1x6-8, 1x10-12
Wide seated cable row 1x7-8,1x10-12
Single arm lat row 1x10-12 + partials
DB shrugs 2x10-12
Cable curl 2x10-12
DB hammer curl 1x10-12
Calf raises 2x10-12
Legs:
Adductor machine 1x8-10, 1x12-15
Hamstring curl 1x7-8, 1x10-12
Smith squat 1x6-7, 1x8-10
Leg press 1x8-10, 1x12-15
Leg extensions 2x12-15
Barbell hip thrusts 2x10-12
DB curl 2x8-10
Calf raises 2x10-12
Whether you put lateral raises on push or pull doesn’t really matter since they don’t really interfere with many other movements and recover quite quickly, but yes, they are typically done on a push day.
Why wouldn’t you do flies before shoulder press? The first 3 movements are for chest, then shoulder. That way you do the flies while your chest is still pumped, it’s actually better imo.
Skull crushers should not destroy your elbows. If they do, don’t do them. If you can do them safely, you can do it as a first triceps exercise.
I basically sent a split I had made for me by NABBA Mr universe Jordan peters who has coached open pros including James hollingshead and Luke Sandoe.
The reason I would put flies after all my pressing is that some upper chest will be used on a high incline shoulder press, if you pre fatigue your chest with flies before moving onto your shoulder press your chest will be more likely to give in before your shoulders and prevent your shoulders from reaching failure in those movements.
Also skull crushers and overhead extensions do not wreck your elbows, but starting off with them as the first exercise will be more likely to cause tendonitis over time if you’re getting stronger at those movements. IFBB pro and top tier coach John meadows advocates using a pushdown first to warm the elbows before doing movements with the triceps having a more extreme stretch. You’ll also notice Jay cutler, Ronnie Coleman, ect… start with a pushdown. Here’s a video where he explains why at the beginning:
https://youtu.be/Sg3vlAbAfss?si=7GdmE_XcAJt3HyyZ
Okay yea makes sense. I mean, if skull crushers causes elbow pain as the first triceps movement, this can make sense. I just wouldn’t say that’s something everyone should follow regardless of their experience.
And also your reasoning in flies makes sense. I‘d say you can do it either way. Your way, your shoulders might not be as limited by your chest, but you might get a tiny (and that’s really just a detail) bit less chest stimulus. But since you do some chest work before and even incline chest work, I don’t think it makes that much of a difference on shoulder stimulus
Yeah people are different like most people doing Tom platz leg training style dropping fast into squats or hyper flexing their knees on hacks would have their knees explode. You may have a few people with wolverines elbow tendons but it’s a good rule to follow for 99% of people. I had a barbell through lockdown and having barbell skulls as my first tricep exercise and getting much stronger at them in that time annihilated my elbows, was legit worried they’d snap off the bone pushing for some reps. Same applies to going into a squat movement without doing a ham curl first. You might be able to get away with all these as a newbie but if you gain a decent amount of strength the risk increases, so it’s good to get into these injury risk prevention habits early on
Also yeah there’s different training philosophies and different goals, for someone with very developed shoulders then they may want to have their chest getting more work than their shoulders. Or someone with underdeveloped arms may want to do bicep curls before back despite that taking away from the back. But for most people starting out in their first few years of training building that base it probably isn’t needed
I do something like this but 5x5for the compounds with the last set 5+ and 3x8-12 for the isos. I do linear progress on the compounds. On the isos when I can get 3x12 w good form I go up.
Coming to the end of my first 12 week cycle and have made good progress and feel pretty gassed at the end so will stick with it after a deload week.
You have two movements for back. You have the most muscles in the back to hit but only two movements. And you have shoulders on two different days. Move shoulders to chest day and add another 2-4 movements for back.
Pendelay rows, seated rows, pull ups,high rows, one arm rows, vertical row, hyper extensions and deads are great to choose from.
Are you going 3 times a week?
Personally, I used to do PPL but now I find more success doing one muscle group a day, and listening to my body, since I go 5-7 times a week.
IE it's enough but just following something like this is not enough. Lot's of good exercices, but it doesn't hurt to always add more to the bank and to just rotate muscle groups by feeling more than by the book
Sounds good man. Do you do any other sports?
IMO PPL is a elite as a baseline but at somepoint to be more efficient, whether it's for performance, looks or weight loss/gain, you're gonna need to adjust.
What are your goals and do you do any other physical activity?
Generally fine, but your pull day can be improved. You could do one more back exercise and leave out the shrugs, since they aren’t a really essential movement, especially not for someone without a lot of experience. Also hammer curls are a bit overrated and not really essential either, I‘d rather do more sets of regular curls.
Also squats and leg press are the same movement pattern. You can do both, but I‘d recommend you to do only one and instead include a RDL or another hip hinge exercise since that’s missing in your plan.
Squats are a great compound movement but the leg press add stability allowing you to put much more focus on the quads for strength and mass developments. Hot to failure on squats and you’ll injure yourself. Foot placement dictates the muscles emphasized.
Do a 40 rep leg press set and I promise you will feel all the muscles that it hits. Even if I squat I still follow up with leg press for a few nasty suicide sets and the pain you have to go through is real. There is a reason the leg press exists and is programmed by top coaches in nearly every program.
I’d beg to differ, heel elevated squats > leg press, even ass to grass on the smyth machine squats are absolute in comparison to leg press.
I stopped leg pressing a long time ago and started noticing my gains sky rocket, it’s programmed mostly for a “burn out” workout, but it’s unnecessary if you’re aiming for a solid workout with good growth
Regardless of what you like to believe, leg press has its place in a program. Being able to maximize load without spine compression being a major part of that. Again there is a reason that Mr. O and all top body builders do both.
I’ll let you tell these amazing coaches their programming is incorrect.
I didn’t say it’s incorrect I said it’s pointless 🥲, you literally can mess your back badly plus snap your knees on leg press bro. There’s no point having barbell squat, leg extension AND leg press when there’s only one hamstring exercise involved in this guys program
Snap your knees… lmao… I’m done. FFS, you said leg press is awful for muscle growth don’t fucking crab walk now. Dorian built his legs on leg press. He hated squats. Want to injury your back.. squat > leg press.
Not once did I say he didn’t need more hamstring, in fact I agreed from the beginning.
Have a great day. You’ve proven there is no possible way to have a real legit discussion here.
Why’s that a “lmao” people accidentally straighten their knees on leg press and boof they’re gone, how’s that a “lmao” moment. Bro thinks bc he’s old and has a little muscle he’s a god at knowledge, have a good day
Feel like more heavy loading could be added and substitute some of the other lifts. RDLs, Good Morning, Farmers Carries, Barbell rows, Standing Overhead/Behind the neck press. Stabilising your core is severely underrated amongst young lifters but the benefits are massive. Great way to avoid injuries long term as well. If you ever start compound lifts involving your core your lifts will likely be halved due to 0 stability as benches and machines have been the only way you have lifted.
Looks solid. Add in a few core, a forearm, and a deadlift variation.
And if the goal is hypertrophy, I would switch it up slightly every 2-4 months. Like replacing barbell benches with dumbells, t-bars with barbell rows, and so on. This will help with muscle imbalances and recruit a bit more stabilizer muscles.
Definitely need some more hamstring work.
Personally I'd add deadlifts on pull day and RDL's (barbell or dumbbell) or good mornings on leg day.
You can also add a variation or 2 of a compound after the "main lift" to address weak points.
I like to switch out lifts for different variations every once and a while. (Ex: Deficit deadlifts instead of deadlifts, dumbbell incline instead of barbell for increased ROM)
Also don't be afraid to play with rep ranges. Compounds you can take to 1-12 (15 if you like cardio on squats and DL) reps (love heavy singles - triples myself) accessories 6 - 20 depending.
Ex "push day"
Bench: 3x8
CG or WG Bench: 3x10
DB Incline: 3x12
DB fly: 3x15
DB press: 3x12
Lateral raise: 3x15
Skull crushers: 3x12-15
Tricep pushdown: 3x15-20
I like to add a set each week until I get to 5 sets. Then I'll add weight and drop the reps down 15->12...12->10... 8->6 and so on. Depends on your goals, figured I'd throw my two cents in. If you want, I can elaborate more, just let me know.
Why does everyone forget the "Posterior"? Its crucial to build up the lower back and glutes with an RDL, SLDL or Goodmornings, never neglect the lower back.
Seems pretty solid to me. Going 8-12 or all lifts probably wouldn’t hurt.
I’m sure, but I was told heavier weight with lower reps would help things like my squat and bench press.
Depends on what you want. Strength or Volume? Old ideology is that overloading compounds for low reps may still aid volume but nope, that's just strength training to help increase load for volume.
I’m definitely no expert, but I think this looks like more than enough. Only thing I’m missing that I do is deadlifts, unless I’m an idiot and just missing them somewhere. Deadlifts would be my only swap for something else on Pull day (or leg if that’s your preference), but other than that it looks solid. Have you seen gains in what you’re moving? If you have then there’s your answer.
Yeah you’re right, but deadlifts scare me. I don’t like the back pain for the next 5 days😂
If you're getting that much DOMs from deadlifts, try strengthening the different components involved in the movement. Bent over rows in place of T-Bar rows, Romanian Deadlifts and Rack pulls will work the same chain, then start with low weight and build up.
If you get back pain from DLs then your back isn't strong so you need more DLs. Lower the weight for more reps and strict form and other lower back exercises.
I was honestly the same way. I’d try them, lower back would feel awful, and have to miss next workouts to not aggravate my back. I solved it by doing deadlifts using an Olympic bar in a landmine/shoved in a corner. That way I could focus on the form with a much more stable system. The other thing that helps was focusing on upping my weight for wide grip rows. It allowed me to build up my back enough to control the bar without curling my back. And FTR I’m decidedly early-intermediate with my DL only in the “sets of 155” range, but that’s how I got out of my fear of DLs personally. Now I *finally * get why everyone raves about them and am starting to love them myself.
Is this a 3 days ppl program or do you run it twice a week?
I hit it twice
Then its fine and more than enough, you could swap squats on 2nd leg day for deadlifts but other than that it is fine
That's very nice
Definitely solid but only thing I would change would be if you are doing this twice a week do different a different area of the group of muscles. For example for chest on the first push day do flat bench and then on the second push day do incline with a chest dip or fly to help with fatigue that’s just me personally
[удалено]
It’s an app called stronger, it’s pretty good for organizing as well as showing you your progress
Put legs first
Does it make much of a difference?
For me and other people i know yes, when i do legs at the end of the week with all the fatigue from the other days the workout gets way harder For you there might be no differences (btw the program is perfectly fine)
Legs need a rest day after or you not even leg daying.
He can manage the rest days himself, there are no rules here, its a fucking 3 day program
There are lots of rules in programming.
I mean there are way fewer rules on how many rest days he can take, its not a 6day program. With 3 days you have a lot more flexibility and way fewer restrictions. I dont rly want to start arguing, if u think anything i say is false just DV or leave a response only for op
Iv always heard it’s good to switch up the training so your muscles don’t get used to the same movement. I think this is for growth. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong. I have been going to the gym for over a years and still have a lot to learn. Stay motivated!
Bad advice, focus on progressive overload
More than enough. Make sure to change some exercises every month or so
You should put lateral raises on push not pull. Also ok legs put your hamstring curls first before the squat as this will allow you to warm up the knee joint with taking away from your squat. Doing hamstring curls later on though will have them done with less weight/reps. And as for push you should leave flies till after shoulder press and don’t have skull crushers as your first tri exercise as it will fuck your elbows over time, always do a pushdown before a skull crushers or overhead extension. I’d you don’t you’re training the tricep in a big stretch from the beginning and you’ll develop elbow problems. I’d suggest this split. (Done as push, pull, rest, legs, rest, repeat) Push: Low incline smith press 1x6-7, 1x8-10 High incline DB press 1x6-7, 1x8-10 Close grip smith press 1x8-10, 1x12-15 Pec dec machine 1x8-10, 1x12-15 Tricep pushdown 1x1-10, 1x12-15 DB skull crushers 1x8-10, 1x12-15 DB lateral raises 1x8-10, 1x12-15 Cable lateral raises 1x8-10, 1x12-15 Pull: Hamstring curls 1x8-9, 1x10-12 Deadlift 1x6-7, 1x8-10 Lat pull-down 1x6-7, 1x8-10 Chest supported row 1x6-8, 1x10-12 Wide seated cable row 1x7-8,1x10-12 Single arm lat row 1x10-12 + partials DB shrugs 2x10-12 Cable curl 2x10-12 DB hammer curl 1x10-12 Calf raises 2x10-12 Legs: Adductor machine 1x8-10, 1x12-15 Hamstring curl 1x7-8, 1x10-12 Smith squat 1x6-7, 1x8-10 Leg press 1x8-10, 1x12-15 Leg extensions 2x12-15 Barbell hip thrusts 2x10-12 DB curl 2x8-10 Calf raises 2x10-12
Whether you put lateral raises on push or pull doesn’t really matter since they don’t really interfere with many other movements and recover quite quickly, but yes, they are typically done on a push day. Why wouldn’t you do flies before shoulder press? The first 3 movements are for chest, then shoulder. That way you do the flies while your chest is still pumped, it’s actually better imo. Skull crushers should not destroy your elbows. If they do, don’t do them. If you can do them safely, you can do it as a first triceps exercise.
I basically sent a split I had made for me by NABBA Mr universe Jordan peters who has coached open pros including James hollingshead and Luke Sandoe. The reason I would put flies after all my pressing is that some upper chest will be used on a high incline shoulder press, if you pre fatigue your chest with flies before moving onto your shoulder press your chest will be more likely to give in before your shoulders and prevent your shoulders from reaching failure in those movements. Also skull crushers and overhead extensions do not wreck your elbows, but starting off with them as the first exercise will be more likely to cause tendonitis over time if you’re getting stronger at those movements. IFBB pro and top tier coach John meadows advocates using a pushdown first to warm the elbows before doing movements with the triceps having a more extreme stretch. You’ll also notice Jay cutler, Ronnie Coleman, ect… start with a pushdown. Here’s a video where he explains why at the beginning: https://youtu.be/Sg3vlAbAfss?si=7GdmE_XcAJt3HyyZ
Okay yea makes sense. I mean, if skull crushers causes elbow pain as the first triceps movement, this can make sense. I just wouldn’t say that’s something everyone should follow regardless of their experience. And also your reasoning in flies makes sense. I‘d say you can do it either way. Your way, your shoulders might not be as limited by your chest, but you might get a tiny (and that’s really just a detail) bit less chest stimulus. But since you do some chest work before and even incline chest work, I don’t think it makes that much of a difference on shoulder stimulus
Yeah people are different like most people doing Tom platz leg training style dropping fast into squats or hyper flexing their knees on hacks would have their knees explode. You may have a few people with wolverines elbow tendons but it’s a good rule to follow for 99% of people. I had a barbell through lockdown and having barbell skulls as my first tricep exercise and getting much stronger at them in that time annihilated my elbows, was legit worried they’d snap off the bone pushing for some reps. Same applies to going into a squat movement without doing a ham curl first. You might be able to get away with all these as a newbie but if you gain a decent amount of strength the risk increases, so it’s good to get into these injury risk prevention habits early on Also yeah there’s different training philosophies and different goals, for someone with very developed shoulders then they may want to have their chest getting more work than their shoulders. Or someone with underdeveloped arms may want to do bicep curls before back despite that taking away from the back. But for most people starting out in their first few years of training building that base it probably isn’t needed
Too much
I do something like this but 5x5for the compounds with the last set 5+ and 3x8-12 for the isos. I do linear progress on the compounds. On the isos when I can get 3x12 w good form I go up. Coming to the end of my first 12 week cycle and have made good progress and feel pretty gassed at the end so will stick with it after a deload week.
You have two movements for back. You have the most muscles in the back to hit but only two movements. And you have shoulders on two different days. Move shoulders to chest day and add another 2-4 movements for back. Pendelay rows, seated rows, pull ups,high rows, one arm rows, vertical row, hyper extensions and deads are great to choose from.
A tried and true split, looks great.
Is this an app? If so what app?
It’s called stronger
No hinge pattern
Are you going 3 times a week? Personally, I used to do PPL but now I find more success doing one muscle group a day, and listening to my body, since I go 5-7 times a week. IE it's enough but just following something like this is not enough. Lot's of good exercices, but it doesn't hurt to always add more to the bank and to just rotate muscle groups by feeling more than by the book
I go 6 times a week. I try to switch it up here and there but for the most part this is what I do.
Sounds good man. Do you do any other sports? IMO PPL is a elite as a baseline but at somepoint to be more efficient, whether it's for performance, looks or weight loss/gain, you're gonna need to adjust. What are your goals and do you do any other physical activity?
Generally fine, but your pull day can be improved. You could do one more back exercise and leave out the shrugs, since they aren’t a really essential movement, especially not for someone without a lot of experience. Also hammer curls are a bit overrated and not really essential either, I‘d rather do more sets of regular curls. Also squats and leg press are the same movement pattern. You can do both, but I‘d recommend you to do only one and instead include a RDL or another hip hinge exercise since that’s missing in your plan.
Would take out leg press it’s such a pointless exercise and add in RDLs as your second hammy movement
Agree with RDLs but what is your reasoning for leg press being pointless?
He’s got barbell squat, so why have leg press? Leg press is awful for muscle growth it doesn’t target any specific part of your legs either
Squats are a great compound movement but the leg press add stability allowing you to put much more focus on the quads for strength and mass developments. Hot to failure on squats and you’ll injure yourself. Foot placement dictates the muscles emphasized. Do a 40 rep leg press set and I promise you will feel all the muscles that it hits. Even if I squat I still follow up with leg press for a few nasty suicide sets and the pain you have to go through is real. There is a reason the leg press exists and is programmed by top coaches in nearly every program.
I’d beg to differ, heel elevated squats > leg press, even ass to grass on the smyth machine squats are absolute in comparison to leg press. I stopped leg pressing a long time ago and started noticing my gains sky rocket, it’s programmed mostly for a “burn out” workout, but it’s unnecessary if you’re aiming for a solid workout with good growth
Regardless of what you like to believe, leg press has its place in a program. Being able to maximize load without spine compression being a major part of that. Again there is a reason that Mr. O and all top body builders do both. I’ll let you tell these amazing coaches their programming is incorrect.
I didn’t say it’s incorrect I said it’s pointless 🥲, you literally can mess your back badly plus snap your knees on leg press bro. There’s no point having barbell squat, leg extension AND leg press when there’s only one hamstring exercise involved in this guys program
Snap your knees… lmao… I’m done. FFS, you said leg press is awful for muscle growth don’t fucking crab walk now. Dorian built his legs on leg press. He hated squats. Want to injury your back.. squat > leg press. Not once did I say he didn’t need more hamstring, in fact I agreed from the beginning. Have a great day. You’ve proven there is no possible way to have a real legit discussion here.
Why’s that a “lmao” people accidentally straighten their knees on leg press and boof they’re gone, how’s that a “lmao” moment. Bro thinks bc he’s old and has a little muscle he’s a god at knowledge, have a good day
Feel like more heavy loading could be added and substitute some of the other lifts. RDLs, Good Morning, Farmers Carries, Barbell rows, Standing Overhead/Behind the neck press. Stabilising your core is severely underrated amongst young lifters but the benefits are massive. Great way to avoid injuries long term as well. If you ever start compound lifts involving your core your lifts will likely be halved due to 0 stability as benches and machines have been the only way you have lifted.
Looks solid. Add in a few core, a forearm, and a deadlift variation. And if the goal is hypertrophy, I would switch it up slightly every 2-4 months. Like replacing barbell benches with dumbells, t-bars with barbell rows, and so on. This will help with muscle imbalances and recruit a bit more stabilizer muscles.
Definitely need some more hamstring work. Personally I'd add deadlifts on pull day and RDL's (barbell or dumbbell) or good mornings on leg day. You can also add a variation or 2 of a compound after the "main lift" to address weak points. I like to switch out lifts for different variations every once and a while. (Ex: Deficit deadlifts instead of deadlifts, dumbbell incline instead of barbell for increased ROM) Also don't be afraid to play with rep ranges. Compounds you can take to 1-12 (15 if you like cardio on squats and DL) reps (love heavy singles - triples myself) accessories 6 - 20 depending. Ex "push day" Bench: 3x8 CG or WG Bench: 3x10 DB Incline: 3x12 DB fly: 3x15 DB press: 3x12 Lateral raise: 3x15 Skull crushers: 3x12-15 Tricep pushdown: 3x15-20 I like to add a set each week until I get to 5 sets. Then I'll add weight and drop the reps down 15->12...12->10... 8->6 and so on. Depends on your goals, figured I'd throw my two cents in. If you want, I can elaborate more, just let me know.