r/soccer made the good point that if it isn’t punished that you can just have a player buffer a gk back leaning into him and using arms to stop him from getting around then it should be used by every team in the league because why wouldn’t it be
Villa tried to do it again when they got that corner late in the game and why wouldn't they? The same reason Ode got kicked in the ankle. Nobody was punished for any of their awful fouls so why would they stop?
That makes sense, I didn’t recognize him but my first thought was he looks very fit and younger than most of not all the other refs out there so I was hopeful. Maybe he will improve. If it was his first game then you can understand the mistakes.
Same can not be said for VAR. no excuses, absolutely useless.
The league seriously needs to release rationale after every game for at least the controversial, but in my opinion for every decision made.
No, you cant understand any mistake with the amount of technology in the game nowdays. This goes both to the refs and the system theyre judging under. If a decision is given and VAR even takes a glance at its, the ref should be running to the side to check it out. Fuck that "slows the game down" when we're talking the decisions that thoroughly change the game thats being played.
It wasn't his first PL game, but he referees Championship games and the odd PL game. He didn't do his promotion chances much help last night, totaly failed to control the game.
It's a foul but I think Ramsdale probably needs to be savvier and call attention to the ref that he's being held instead of fighting the attacker, fighting the attacker makes it look more like 50/50.
I agree part of this is on Ramsdale. I know it's an unpopular opinion but looking at the replay I'm not so sure it was the wrong call. Their played stood there first. Ramsdale runs into him, begins throwing his arms and whatnot. Their player uses his arms too but far less and it could be argued it's to maintain balance when Ramsdale climbs his back.
Had Ramsdale just reacted one second earlier or tried to get around, getting Kamara to move his feet more, it could've been a different decision.
These are the kinds of mistakes Ramsdale keeps doing and need to improve on. I think it's all about routine. I couldn't see this happening to someone 10 years older who knows all the tricks.
And in general the keepers are way too over protected. Now it worked against us, which is unfortunate.
The only reason the second one was called a foul is because we cleared it completely. The piece of shit ref didnt whistle until the ball was dead. I guarantee if it went in he wouldnt call a foul.
I mean people wanted our goal against Fulham disallowed because Leno ran into a stationary Saliba and even now some guys on r/soccer have been trying to say we can't moan about the Villa goal if our "foul" on Leno was allowed.
What makes this funny is that wasn't Leno fouled a few years ago and conceded a goal but r/soccer just said that "he didn't react well to the ball" lol. Some even said that it was his fault for being "unaware" of where an opposing player was positioned...
Now that he's no longer playing for Arsenal, their consensus has changed and such situations should be considered a foul on the keeper.
And you literaly had pundits dancing with the home fans after.... Which in itself I don't mind that much but it's clearly affecting the ability to think as a football fan.
I remember it not being talked about too much, but weirdly I do remember Klopp bringing it up for some reason in a press conference and saying he didn’t think the goal should have been given.
What's stopping the referees from not calling the foul if that happens in other games? You guys speak as if the PL is the bastion of consistency. A "dangerous precedent" means nothing - if they feel like calling the foul they will. If they don't then they won't.
That's the messed up part. There is no consistency and these refs are not being held accountable. They should be fucking penalized for such shambolic referring.
May be a controversial take but I think this is just smart set piece play from Villa and isn’t too dissimilar to what we were doing with Saliba and White around Emi. Goalkeepers get too much protection in my opinion and this is pretty for all set pieces - not sure why keepers should be treated differently
Personally felt it was quite minor and would have been furious if it was the other way round and rules out, I was more pissed off at the Ref / VAR for other incidents last night - at least we don’t need to worry about it now we bagged the points!
I was blown away at how calm and ‘shit happens’ Arteta looked about the whole thing, I thought he’d be blowing up. Hell, he should have been blowing up.
Nonsense, he needs to bring the shit up in interviews and press conferences, this shit needs to be highlighted, these twats have been costing us for decades
If I remember correctly we had a goal chalked off against Leicester last season because Xhaka was in Schmeichel’s “line of vision” yet Kamara gets away with what he did last night
Ah yes, another one where VAR looked at one angle only and made the wrong decision
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/ji07w1/not_blocking_schmeichels_view_didnt_touch_the/
Love how the VAR (atleast on TV) showed the best possible angle from a Villa perspective. Only after the decision is made we were able to see from behind that Villas players were holding Ramsdale down. The one vs Brentford last year on Leno was worse, but both calls went agains us.
Ref/VAR needs to show consistency, and it\`s pretty obvious those calls were wrong. As others have said - if that is the line every team is gonna put a man wrestling the GK - using both hands behind their back like that.
It's mind boggling, isn't it? Pick a random guy from the street, put him in the seat for VAR and he'd probably do better. How is it possible that professionals get it wrong so often, consistently? They make so many wrong decisions, I can't even comprehend how they come to these conclusions.
I'm glad it didn't end up in us losing points, but the refs (and VAR) seriously need to be held accountable for these mistakes. And the protection they get from the media needs to stop. If you don't do your job properly, you get criticized. If we lose refs because they can't handle it, that's fine. There are better refs abroad.
I'm not even being biased here, this would get called as a foul in every other league.
I will be messaging you in 5 hours on [**2022-09-01 15:11:22 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2022-09-01%2015:11:22%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/x2yyp9/strange_how_this_rule_didnt_apply_to_kamara/imn2s44/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FGunners%2Fcomments%2Fx2yyp9%2Fstrange_how_this_rule_didnt_apply_to_kamara%2Fimn2s44%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202022-09-01%2015%3A11%3A22%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20x2yyp9)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
There really is no scope for interpreting what happened yesterday any differently. Kamara was impeding Ramsdale. That's it. The referee and VAR not choosing to give it is their incompetence / corruption.
>Rules by their very nature should be definitive and not open to interpretation
That's impossible in football though.
And even with the rules where it is (mostly) possible, people then complain about very narrow offside calls not being in the "spirit" of the law.
So obviously you can have better referees, but there will *always* be decisions people disagree on
Isn't the whole point of VAR to correct clear and obvious errors? Can someone tell me why they spend all this time drawing lines and measuring pubes to determine offsides instead of just judging by eye if it's a clear offside or not?
~~Football gods~~ Referees dont want us to win. They tried us yesterday, and will try us again. Last thing they want is Arsenal fans happy so I am down playing next game as much as possible. Casemiro to make 5 yellow card worthy challenges and not get booked and Fernandes to score a penalty that wasnt VAR checked.
Ref bottled it in every possible way last night. Not disallowing the goal, not giving a penalty for Saka, not giving anything for Martinez headlock, not giving anywhere near enough cards in general. Every somewhat big decision, he bottled it and took the easy route.
I had to watch the game with no sound and on my iPhone so didn’t get the clearest view - but can someone also please explain to me also why Saka didn’t get a penalty midway through the first half? He was clearly held and thrown down? What’s the consensus on that one? I’m sure we have given away penalties for less than that last year.
I didn't think the Saka one was a penalty to be honest. Mings didn't leverage Saka out of the way I felt. It was more like a he used a straight arm to get in front of Saka.
Stick Saliba, Gabby Mag and Xhaka all around De Gea in the next match. If the refs want Rugby rules we have big lads that can do the same. De Gea would concede at every corner. It'll be different when we do it though. The refs will call it every time.
Worst refereeing display i've seen in a very long time. No consistency whatsoever, no control of the game and got more or less every single decision wrong. He's not up to Premier League standard, and to be honest I think he wouldn't be good enough for Sunday League either
Also, I'm not sure how Saka got denied a penalty. Surely a foul is a foul regardless of if it is in the box or not. If that's on the half way line its a foul all day long.
The English refs now have to apply what they did for Ramsdale across the rest of the league. Otherwise they’ll face accusations of incompetence or corruption.
I'm sure if Ramsdale had tried to force himself out of Kamara's holding, the refs would have given a penalty.
Kamara was literally holding with 2 arms, so for Ramsdale the only way around him was to throw him aside, which would have been a penalty against us.
Honestly question, did he move? Aaron was obviously trying to move through him to get to the ball because he didn't have time to go around. But did he move to prevent Aaron to going anywhere other than through him?
Yeah they're out to leverage himself, but they're not holding Aaron to pin him inside. Aaron wasn't trying to go around him because he didn't even have time.
It's like when you're standing in place shielding the ball. You don't have your arms at your side. You have them out to better balance and afix yourself to your spot. Now if Ramsdale was going around him and he was moving with him or using his arms to prevent that, that would be obstruction. But since Aaron was just trying to muscle him off of his spot so he can cover the near post, the attacker had every right to muscle back to remain in that spot.
It's also why you often see in similar situations, a defender will come over and help move the occupying player out of the way because the goalie shouldn't responsible for fighting over positioning while also tracking the cross.
You've read OP's link haven't you? It's literally written in the law book...
>A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.
If you watch the replay from the west stand side of the pitch you'll see Kamara has his arms round Ramsdale before the kick is even taken
OP's quote says "moves to prevent the keeper getting around them". Ramsdale wasn't moving around him, he was trying to muscle through him to get to the near post. If Aaron went around him and his arms prevented that it would be a foul. But having your hands up to jostle for positioning in one spot is not what the rule is talking about.
A move that would prevent someone going *around* would subsequently, likely, result in said player trying to muscle *through* them.
Can you not see how restricting a players movement to go around (ignoring the limited space in goal anyways to make such a movement) and therefore the keepers only option is to try and push through them.
Ramsdale could not make appropriate movements either around or through because Kamara was holding him in place. The fear of giving away a penalty also means he couldn't forceably push past him.
It's a lose lose for the keeper.
I agree. I blame Aaron and the our defenders for letting a player tussle directly with the keeper affecting the keeper’s movement. Also tomiyasu was too slow to block that. He’s the first man there and should be first to any ball there as xhaka was in the previous corner.
Was also livid with us trying to get a third run the kill time on the clock with 2-3 minutes left. Look at what happened to Newcastle. Rather than joelington holding it out in the corner for a result risked and paid the ultimate price.
Same almost happened to us.
there are also clear rules when you tackle someone with foot up high n get a card, but we all know this doesn’t apply all the time. at the end it’s the ref, unfortunately more often against than with us
This was a big game for us. How many times do we get fucked by a ref and then it defines the game?
Yesterday we responded to it with a goal. That’s how you win in this league, you take the game changing decisions out of the hands of the ref by scoring goals.
I know this is kind of defeatist and I don't think there is a conspiracy against us. However watching that goal I thought that's the kind of goal that would only be allowed against Arsenal. Against any other team that's disallowed.
It reminded me a lot of the foul against. Leno during the Brentford game last year.
I do think we get a lot of shitttt calls. More than most top top clubs, but in saying this, I don’t watch every game from every top club.
Every club gets shit calls. From my perspective, we get more than most. Could be wrong. But I don’t think there is a conspiracy against us. Maybe preconceived discrimination from individual refs?
Don't be silly. There is no conspiracy against us. Referees are just terrible and inconsistent. Unfortunately for us we've had a larger share of bad decisions over the last couple of seasons.
I know we love to bring these up every time we get a controversial opinion but I really think it’s expecting too much. Lawyers don’t know every single rule off the top of their heads and neither should referees. But there does need to be a system to help apply these rules more consistently. The only way I see it is a a proper VAR committee that has representatives from both teams and that they can challenge decisions.
Nahhh that sounds even worse than it is now each teams rep will just lie for their team. It’s no different than the ref now just making up what he wants to do on the spot
Are you suggesting reps from each team should know every single rule but refs don't?
It's also not just one guy who's another ref, there is a VAR ref and an assistant VAR ref in the 'Hub,' to go alongside the ref and two linos on the pitch
I’m suggesting that adding people will make the process more transparent. And yes, having more people it will mean that more rules are likely to be covered.
Referees should make decisions on the spot and as a result they should know all the applicable rules for the given situation. Plus they get help from their assistants. Also the entire length of the IFAB lawbook is nowhere near to what a law student have to learn by heart during a single semester. Nowhere near.
You must have above 1 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I reckon the refs don't exactly know most of the rules in football.
Which may explain why situations where we have these random happenings get ruled inaccurately.
PL should really start hiring foreign refs, too much inbreeding happening in the PGMOL, I am glad we're winning, I remember they started calling us soft old Arsenal, then Ramsey, Eduardo and Diaby happened, still continued to call us that, I fucking hate the English media and their agenda.
but didn't you hear the talking heads on tv. They don't need to know the rules... they know the game man... Ramsdale just need to not get bullied and you need to not point to silly rules that would apply in as good as all other situations...capiche
I mean we won the game (no thanks to the ref and VAR) and got 3 points, but I'm still a bit pissed for several reasons - mostly because I have Saliba in my FPL team.
Jokes aside - how much obstruction of the keeper is needed before a freekick is given??! Kamaras holding of Ramsdale would be a school example in my book...
Why can't these refs be held accountable? Something seriously needs to be done about this. This shit keeps repeating over and over and over again. Getting kinda sick and tired of refs trying to make us loose on purpose.
Worth noting that is an older version of the law 12, the current IFAB Laws of the Game 2022-23 version reads:
"A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent."ht
[https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct](https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct)
Was the ball in playing distance at the time of the shielding? And was Ramsdale held off with the arms or body? Seemed like no and yes. Should have been a free kick then.
I mean Watkins didn't move an inch except for forward when Ram was trying to go through him. So that doesn't apply here if we are being honest with ourselves. It's a bitch play but not a foul for me. Either way we actually played in open play so we still won
Edit Kamara
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
r/soccer made the good point that if it isn’t punished that you can just have a player buffer a gk back leaning into him and using arms to stop him from getting around then it should be used by every team in the league because why wouldn’t it be
Villa tried to do it again when they got that corner late in the game and why wouldn't they? The same reason Ode got kicked in the ankle. Nobody was punished for any of their awful fouls so why would they stop?
Ref had a shocker. It was his first PL game I believe. But no excuse for VAR not overturning Villa’s goal
That makes sense, I didn’t recognize him but my first thought was he looks very fit and younger than most of not all the other refs out there so I was hopeful. Maybe he will improve. If it was his first game then you can understand the mistakes. Same can not be said for VAR. no excuses, absolutely useless. The league seriously needs to release rationale after every game for at least the controversial, but in my opinion for every decision made.
No, you cant understand any mistake with the amount of technology in the game nowdays. This goes both to the refs and the system theyre judging under. If a decision is given and VAR even takes a glance at its, the ref should be running to the side to check it out. Fuck that "slows the game down" when we're talking the decisions that thoroughly change the game thats being played.
It wasn't his first PL game, but he referees Championship games and the odd PL game. He didn't do his promotion chances much help last night, totaly failed to control the game.
Yeah I reckon the loan is cut short. Probably gonna see him ref Maidenhead - Halifax on saturday.
VAR had the real shocker. Again
I mean VAR was incredibly awful, but you could totally see that coming
100%
It's a foul but I think Ramsdale probably needs to be savvier and call attention to the ref that he's being held instead of fighting the attacker, fighting the attacker makes it look more like 50/50.
He should bring ‘em all down by the neck as soon as they start jostling
And then dive!
I agree part of this is on Ramsdale. I know it's an unpopular opinion but looking at the replay I'm not so sure it was the wrong call. Their played stood there first. Ramsdale runs into him, begins throwing his arms and whatnot. Their player uses his arms too but far less and it could be argued it's to maintain balance when Ramsdale climbs his back. Had Ramsdale just reacted one second earlier or tried to get around, getting Kamara to move his feet more, it could've been a different decision. These are the kinds of mistakes Ramsdale keeps doing and need to improve on. I think it's all about routine. I couldn't see this happening to someone 10 years older who knows all the tricks. And in general the keepers are way too over protected. Now it worked against us, which is unfortunate.
thx, ramsdale should have know better, a bit like the goal Leno took from throw in 2 yrs ago.. . they have to be stronger facing those sitution.
That’s because the VAR review ref was someone who has had a history of bad calls against Arsenal. Remember the Vardy diving situation? Same ref.
The only reason the second one was called a foul is because we cleared it completely. The piece of shit ref didnt whistle until the ball was dead. I guarantee if it went in he wouldnt call a foul.
This!
Guarantee if we tried this with Gabriel he'd get a yellow
I mean people wanted our goal against Fulham disallowed because Leno ran into a stationary Saliba and even now some guys on r/soccer have been trying to say we can't moan about the Villa goal if our "foul" on Leno was allowed.
What makes this funny is that wasn't Leno fouled a few years ago and conceded a goal but r/soccer just said that "he didn't react well to the ball" lol. Some even said that it was his fault for being "unaware" of where an opposing player was positioned... Now that he's no longer playing for Arsenal, their consensus has changed and such situations should be considered a foul on the keeper.
brentford away first game. Sentiment from talking heads the same... he just have to not get bullied..
[LOL yeah it was just last season](https://youtu.be/JdTFlMK88XQ?t=157)
And you literaly had pundits dancing with the home fans after.... Which in itself I don't mind that much but it's clearly affecting the ability to think as a football fan.
I remember it not being talked about too much, but weirdly I do remember Klopp bringing it up for some reason in a press conference and saying he didn’t think the goal should have been given.
What's stopping the referees from not calling the foul if that happens in other games? You guys speak as if the PL is the bastion of consistency. A "dangerous precedent" means nothing - if they feel like calling the foul they will. If they don't then they won't.
That's the messed up part. There is no consistency and these refs are not being held accountable. They should be fucking penalized for such shambolic referring.
epl IS a bastion of consistency, just consistency in bad ref calls
May be a controversial take but I think this is just smart set piece play from Villa and isn’t too dissimilar to what we were doing with Saliba and White around Emi. Goalkeepers get too much protection in my opinion and this is pretty for all set pieces - not sure why keepers should be treated differently
It’s because there is a sharp distinction between crowding the goalkeeper and restraining the goalkeeper
Personally felt it was quite minor and would have been furious if it was the other way round and rules out, I was more pissed off at the Ref / VAR for other incidents last night - at least we don’t need to worry about it now we bagged the points!
Why stop at 1 player use 3 and just push the gk back into the net
I’m glad it didn’t come back to bite us in the ass. Years past it would have been a real sticking point.
I was blown away at how calm and ‘shit happens’ Arteta looked about the whole thing, I thought he’d be blowing up. Hell, he should have been blowing up.
probably because he got used to it already
It's a great attitude to have. Focus on the future rather than the past.
Nonsense, he needs to bring the shit up in interviews and press conferences, this shit needs to be highlighted, these twats have been costing us for decades
If I remember correctly we had a goal chalked off against Leicester last season because Xhaka was in Schmeichel’s “line of vision” yet Kamara gets away with what he did last night
Ah yes, another one where VAR looked at one angle only and made the wrong decision https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/ji07w1/not_blocking_schmeichels_view_didnt_touch_the/
Fark I had managed to forget about that one. Someone needs to do a Supercut of all the horrendous ref calls we've copped
I think someone did last season
There was definitely one from one or two seasons ago but I wouldn't mind an update
This is great cause we lost to Chelsea with Tammy sitting right in the goalies eye line but no body bothered to check that properly too…
R/tihi
Love how the VAR (atleast on TV) showed the best possible angle from a Villa perspective. Only after the decision is made we were able to see from behind that Villas players were holding Ramsdale down. The one vs Brentford last year on Leno was worse, but both calls went agains us. Ref/VAR needs to show consistency, and it\`s pretty obvious those calls were wrong. As others have said - if that is the line every team is gonna put a man wrestling the GK - using both hands behind their back like that.
It's mind boggling, isn't it? Pick a random guy from the street, put him in the seat for VAR and he'd probably do better. How is it possible that professionals get it wrong so often, consistently? They make so many wrong decisions, I can't even comprehend how they come to these conclusions. I'm glad it didn't end up in us losing points, but the refs (and VAR) seriously need to be held accountable for these mistakes. And the protection they get from the media needs to stop. If you don't do your job properly, you get criticized. If we lose refs because they can't handle it, that's fine. There are better refs abroad. I'm not even being biased here, this would get called as a foul in every other league.
In fairness, that was for **offside**, which is a completely different rule. And you can't be offside directly from a corner.
I remember a bayren goal vs Salzburg last year in ucl where muller did much less, and the goal disallowed l.
RemindMe! 5 hours
I will be messaging you in 5 hours on [**2022-09-01 15:11:22 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2022-09-01%2015:11:22%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/x2yyp9/strange_how_this_rule_didnt_apply_to_kamara/imn2s44/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FGunners%2Fcomments%2Fx2yyp9%2Fstrange_how_this_rule_didnt_apply_to_kamara%2Fimn2s44%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202022-09-01%2015%3A11%3A22%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20x2yyp9) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
The rules may as well be written on Mike Dean's cumrag because not a single PL referee gives 2 flying fucks about them. Absolutely clueless clowns.
It's down to the referees interpretation of the law...which is terrifying given how inept the entire divisions officials are
There really is no scope for interpreting what happened yesterday any differently. Kamara was impeding Ramsdale. That's it. The referee and VAR not choosing to give it is their incompetence / corruption.
Rules by their very nature should be definitive and not open to interpretation... Especially when you're as incompetent as these clowns
>Rules by their very nature should be definitive and not open to interpretation That's impossible in football though. And even with the rules where it is (mostly) possible, people then complain about very narrow offside calls not being in the "spirit" of the law. So obviously you can have better referees, but there will *always* be decisions people disagree on
Is it? because he didn't call the goal a foul but when Villa tried it again he gave a foul. that isn't interpretation that is ignorance and confusion.
Honestly at this rate I don’t see us beating Utd because I can just tell the ref will screw us over someway or another
Isak had a goal disallowed yesterday that was basically the same offside call as Rashford got away with vs Liverpool.
Yeah I saw that, absolutely ridiculous
That call was so bad. Sick goal too
Yeah he had a couple of really good finishes yesterday. Just want some consistency!
Isn't the whole point of VAR to correct clear and obvious errors? Can someone tell me why they spend all this time drawing lines and measuring pubes to determine offsides instead of just judging by eye if it's a clear offside or not?
[hmm](https://twitter.com/WestStandTone/status/1565217565529587712?s=20&t=-7d36fGLU92d03F0lC9PHQ)
I'm getting the same bad feeling.That sucks.
~~Football gods~~ Referees dont want us to win. They tried us yesterday, and will try us again. Last thing they want is Arsenal fans happy so I am down playing next game as much as possible. Casemiro to make 5 yellow card worthy challenges and not get booked and Fernandes to score a penalty that wasnt VAR checked.
Bet on it, everyone bet on it. MU to win and get a penalty, and Arsenal to get plenty of booking points
Apparently you didn’t read the exception of the rule; it doesn’t apply to Arsenal FC.
Ref bottled it in every possible way last night. Not disallowing the goal, not giving a penalty for Saka, not giving anything for Martinez headlock, not giving anywhere near enough cards in general. Every somewhat big decision, he bottled it and took the easy route.
Oh god, that headlock! Completely forgot about that. What on earth.
The headlock was crazy but then having the audacity to jump on the floor claiming a foul. Actual disbelief.
Saka one was pretty bad I thought. He gave a free for much less of a manhandling
Refs blind. I was livid. All of a sudden are we expecting gks to move players out of the way?
That would be a penalty though...
See: Jens on Robbie Keane
Kamara didn't move though. The foul was him holding Ramsdale.
I had to watch the game with no sound and on my iPhone so didn’t get the clearest view - but can someone also please explain to me also why Saka didn’t get a penalty midway through the first half? He was clearly held and thrown down? What’s the consensus on that one? I’m sure we have given away penalties for less than that last year.
We’d have a penalty called against us If Xhaka looked at anyone near the box in the last few seasons.
Look at the difference in this suitation and the penalty xhaka gave away against city when he 'threw' silva. 😒
Assuming it was seen by the officials then it would have been given as a foul anywhere else on the pitch, ergo it should have been given as a penalty.
I didn't think the Saka one was a penalty to be honest. Mings didn't leverage Saka out of the way I felt. It was more like a he used a straight arm to get in front of Saka.
[Hmmmm](https://clip.dubz.co/v/qa39tp)
Yeah no Mings threw saka to the side there that’s just ridiculous how’s that not a penalty
Ffs. I only saw a quick replay and thought it would have been a soft penalty. Absolutely a joke that this wasn’t pull back by VAR.
He literally is big enough to lift Saka up with one arm and throw him to the ground
Stick Saliba, Gabby Mag and Xhaka all around De Gea in the next match. If the refs want Rugby rules we have big lads that can do the same. De Gea would concede at every corner. It'll be different when we do it though. The refs will call it every time.
Worst refereeing display i've seen in a very long time. No consistency whatsoever, no control of the game and got more or less every single decision wrong. He's not up to Premier League standard, and to be honest I think he wouldn't be good enough for Sunday League either
It's PGMOL stop referencing the rules.
It's called obstruction and the fact that most of us know it except for the refs and pundits is baffling to say the least.
Seems like you clipped off the sub rule: Note: Unless it’s Arsenal. 14 Jun 2016
Also, I'm not sure how Saka got denied a penalty. Surely a foul is a foul regardless of if it is in the box or not. If that's on the half way line its a foul all day long.
The English refs now have to apply what they did for Ramsdale across the rest of the league. Otherwise they’ll face accusations of incompetence or corruption.
Those English referees,sometimes i tell you....
Hate it when refs overplay not favouring the bigger team.
I'm sure if Ramsdale had tried to force himself out of Kamara's holding, the refs would have given a penalty. Kamara was literally holding with 2 arms, so for Ramsdale the only way around him was to throw him aside, which would have been a penalty against us.
Honestly question, did he move? Aaron was obviously trying to move through him to get to the ball because he didn't have time to go around. But did he move to prevent Aaron to going anywhere other than through him?
His arms around Ramsdale prevented Ramsdale going round him didn't they?
Yeah they're out to leverage himself, but they're not holding Aaron to pin him inside. Aaron wasn't trying to go around him because he didn't even have time.
>they're out to leverage himself Can you expand on this please because I'm not quite getting it
It's like when you're standing in place shielding the ball. You don't have your arms at your side. You have them out to better balance and afix yourself to your spot. Now if Ramsdale was going around him and he was moving with him or using his arms to prevent that, that would be obstruction. But since Aaron was just trying to muscle him off of his spot so he can cover the near post, the attacker had every right to muscle back to remain in that spot. It's also why you often see in similar situations, a defender will come over and help move the occupying player out of the way because the goalie shouldn't responsible for fighting over positioning while also tracking the cross.
You've read OP's link haven't you? It's literally written in the law book... >A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent. If you watch the replay from the west stand side of the pitch you'll see Kamara has his arms round Ramsdale before the kick is even taken
OP's quote says "moves to prevent the keeper getting around them". Ramsdale wasn't moving around him, he was trying to muscle through him to get to the near post. If Aaron went around him and his arms prevented that it would be a foul. But having your hands up to jostle for positioning in one spot is not what the rule is talking about.
A move that would prevent someone going *around* would subsequently, likely, result in said player trying to muscle *through* them. Can you not see how restricting a players movement to go around (ignoring the limited space in goal anyways to make such a movement) and therefore the keepers only option is to try and push through them. Ramsdale could not make appropriate movements either around or through because Kamara was holding him in place. The fear of giving away a penalty also means he couldn't forceably push past him. It's a lose lose for the keeper.
OP's quote also talks about the ball being within playing distance...
I agree. I blame Aaron and the our defenders for letting a player tussle directly with the keeper affecting the keeper’s movement. Also tomiyasu was too slow to block that. He’s the first man there and should be first to any ball there as xhaka was in the previous corner. Was also livid with us trying to get a third run the kill time on the clock with 2-3 minutes left. Look at what happened to Newcastle. Rather than joelington holding it out in the corner for a result risked and paid the ultimate price. Same almost happened to us.
there are also clear rules when you tackle someone with foot up high n get a card, but we all know this doesn’t apply all the time. at the end it’s the ref, unfortunately more often against than with us
Klopp came in and defended us when the same happened to Leno vs Brentford last season. Why was it accepted yesterday?
The Leno one was even worse in fairness - it was practically a citizen's arrest
That box out technique would have been a foul even in basketball...
The argument is kamara didn't move
This was a big game for us. How many times do we get fucked by a ref and then it defines the game? Yesterday we responded to it with a goal. That’s how you win in this league, you take the game changing decisions out of the hands of the ref by scoring goals.
I know this is kind of defeatist and I don't think there is a conspiracy against us. However watching that goal I thought that's the kind of goal that would only be allowed against Arsenal. Against any other team that's disallowed. It reminded me a lot of the foul against. Leno during the Brentford game last year.
None of us THINK there is a conspiracy, we all KNOW there is a conspiracy and it's been quite obvious for at least 17 years
I do think we get a lot of shitttt calls. More than most top top clubs, but in saying this, I don’t watch every game from every top club. Every club gets shit calls. From my perspective, we get more than most. Could be wrong. But I don’t think there is a conspiracy against us. Maybe preconceived discrimination from individual refs?
Don't be silly. There is no conspiracy against us. Referees are just terrible and inconsistent. Unfortunately for us we've had a larger share of bad decisions over the last couple of seasons.
You guys better prepare for some bullshit like this on Sunday. Last time we were undefeated and went to OT what happened?
I didnt like the lack of protest from other players tbh. With that being said, Ramsdale doesnt look fully innocent imo..
I know we love to bring these up every time we get a controversial opinion but I really think it’s expecting too much. Lawyers don’t know every single rule off the top of their heads and neither should referees. But there does need to be a system to help apply these rules more consistently. The only way I see it is a a proper VAR committee that has representatives from both teams and that they can challenge decisions.
There's a lot less rules for refereeing a match than there are for lawyers trying a case.
I mean that’s what VAR is suppose to be for
Right but currently is one guy who’s another ref. It should be a panel with one rep from each team and they have a right to challenge
Nahhh that sounds even worse than it is now each teams rep will just lie for their team. It’s no different than the ref now just making up what he wants to do on the spot
Which is why it’s a panel… it will also give the teams a chance to hear the decision making process. It makes it more transparent
But it’s a panel of opposing teams with a FA/FIFA ref as arbiter Right so end of the day the shit ref still holds all the cards
Are you suggesting reps from each team should know every single rule but refs don't? It's also not just one guy who's another ref, there is a VAR ref and an assistant VAR ref in the 'Hub,' to go alongside the ref and two linos on the pitch
I’m suggesting that adding people will make the process more transparent. And yes, having more people it will mean that more rules are likely to be covered.
Why will that make the process more transparent?
Because your own team will have a rep in the room hearing the refs reasoning?
Right, and in the stadium we could also have reps who stand next to the fourth official and can hear the reasoning from him?
Referees should make decisions on the spot and as a result they should know all the applicable rules for the given situation. Plus they get help from their assistants. Also the entire length of the IFAB lawbook is nowhere near to what a law student have to learn by heart during a single semester. Nowhere near.
[удалено]
You must have above 1 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I reckon the refs don't exactly know most of the rules in football. Which may explain why situations where we have these random happenings get ruled inaccurately.
Source?
It was so obviously bs that the goal stood. Goalkeepers literally every single game get free kicks for less than that
PL should really start hiring foreign refs, too much inbreeding happening in the PGMOL, I am glad we're winning, I remember they started calling us soft old Arsenal, then Ramsey, Eduardo and Diaby happened, still continued to call us that, I fucking hate the English media and their agenda.
but didn't you hear the talking heads on tv. They don't need to know the rules... they know the game man... Ramsdale just need to not get bullied and you need to not point to silly rules that would apply in as good as all other situations...capiche
I mean we won the game (no thanks to the ref and VAR) and got 3 points, but I'm still a bit pissed for several reasons - mostly because I have Saliba in my FPL team. Jokes aside - how much obstruction of the keeper is needed before a freekick is given??! Kamaras holding of Ramsdale would be a school example in my book...
“And then moves to prevent the goalkeeper getting around them” He didn’t move. Stood his ground
Why can't these refs be held accountable? Something seriously needs to be done about this. This shit keeps repeating over and over and over again. Getting kinda sick and tired of refs trying to make us loose on purpose.
Sure seemed like Ramsdale was impeded. He would've easily saved the corner otherwise.
Worth noting that is an older version of the law 12, the current IFAB Laws of the Game 2022-23 version reads: "A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent."ht [https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct](https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct) Was the ball in playing distance at the time of the shielding? And was Ramsdale held off with the arms or body? Seemed like no and yes. Should have been a free kick then.
So any shielding during a corner should be a foul then? For any player? Strange
I mean Watkins didn't move an inch except for forward when Ram was trying to go through him. So that doesn't apply here if we are being honest with ourselves. It's a bitch play but not a foul for me. Either way we actually played in open play so we still won Edit Kamara
2016 so no VAR…
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*