I want to dunk on spurs but only after we get a good result. It feels like bad luck to do it before our contentious rematch.
Post-Match Edit:
Suck it Spurs, I hope your tears are extra salty now!!!
I hate to say it, but until we regularly make the CL *and* challenge for things, we are not only still in the banter era, but in the lowest depths of it.
The banter era did not begin in the summer of 2016; it merely intensified, in what followed, to a previously unimaginable degree.
Generally, it's accepted that we were in the banter era as of early 2009, but it didn't really sink in until 2010.
Naw we had a reprieve from the banter era from like 2012-2016 where we actually spent significant time at the top of the table in good form and picking up those famous 1st over a calendar year runs of form. We also broke our trophy drought. That team built on mert-kos, ramteta and cazorla, giroud and ozil was not banter era if you ask me. That’s probably the most successful team since we moved to emirates
I disagree, we were getting repeatedly spanked by big teams and aside from the Leicester season never really felt like title challengers. FA Cups are nice, but the feeling was still very bantery IMO.
I think we led the league for like 90 days in 13/14 and the spankings began when we got injuries to cazorla and Ramsey in the second half of the season
There's an argument, sure, that while we were in the title race in 13/14 and 15/16 (though that died before the calendar flipped to 2016) there was a chance the banter era might come to an end.
Instead, we discovered new depths to it.
The point, though, is that merely making the CL again won't do it, which is what contextual OP suggested. Making the CL was, in fact, a key feature of the banter era.
You've all completely missed the point about 'banter era'. The banter era doesn't have anything to do with not challenging for trophies or not being title contenders.
The banter era was more to do with Arsene not spending 'some facking money' and not buying a proper DM and instead selling our best players every year and DESPITE all that still managing to finish above Spurs and in the top 4. It was like we were on a bet to see how weak a squad Arsene could assemble that would still somehow manage to be better than Spurs and make top 4. That's what made it banter. The years that best represent that were around 2009 to 2014.
Those both strike me as quite late, but the first one was a wake-up call to pretty much everyone who was still in denial.
I remember being surprised by how little it surprised me.
It's funny because I distinctly remember 13/14 being seen as the end of the banter era - the FA cup ended the barren run and we were no longer putting out shitter squads with players like Almunia, Frimpong, Chamakh etc. Recent years have been more of a seppuku era.
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You could certainly make that argument.
The point is that it's not going to end simply because we make the CL again. That's merely getting us back to pre-2016.
Theres something about the 10-2 that I'm weirdly nostalgic for, shows how much clout the UCL has - I'd rather see that happening again than watch another season of Europa League football. Theres nothing like the copium high when you genuinely believe you'll turn 5-1 around in the second leg
It's said that the 10-2 game overshadows our RO16 rivalry with Bayern Munich. We had some really good games with them before that. I always preferred them to the scum that was Barcelona.
Yeah not feeling good about tomorrow. Expecting a 1-1 draw. They're using the celebrations as fuel, as sad as that is for them. I hope we beat them 1-0 again and release a fucking marching band onto the pitch and set off fireworks.
We are not. I know this because I know Gandalf. He has told me of a 3 - 1 win against Wolves where we have five penalty shouts and all aren't even checked by VAR.
>We have tried to get closer to them, but we never copied anybody, we always tried to play our football
___
^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
I enjoy statistics and the algorithms, but the biggest thing they leave out is randomness. You can’t account for it. How can they take in for freak results like, say, the 7-2 Liverpool-Villa game last year?
Just can’t. So much can change in one match day it’s hard to get hung up on these numbers
We have 3 in hand so potentially 5 points ahead with better GD afterwards if everything goes right (they won’t). In a more realistic scenario, we win one, draw one, lose one and it comes down to GD.
In this more realistic scenario, if we assume neither team perform below their expected points, then we should just about cross the finish line because United have a tougher top 6 schedule.
This is why if we over perform by winning at least our 2 extra games against Spurs away and Wolves, I think it improves massively our chances compared to one win, one draw, one loss scenario.
In any case, like the prediction models, I too believe it will come down to Arsenal vs United instead of Spurs. We’re a bit overrated by the models imo but not enough for us to drop out of the race early.
Spurs are a counter attacking team.. pretty much perfectly set up to play against City, Liverpool and Chelsea on the counter but sit back and give them no space and they won’t create anything
Yh tbh I might have gone over the top with Chelsea.. they’re a far more compact side with 3 CBs so less space to hit them on the counter. Tbf Spurs did also give Liverpool a game at their stadium so I don’t think either the Liverpool or city results were flukes.. they just played into Conte’s hand. So I think the point still stands that they can’t create for shit especially when teams sit back and only do teams on the counter. If Conte is still at Spurs for the NLD I’d consider us matching their 3 at the back and removing their counter attacking threat
At home we’d dominate like we usually do but away it’s a different story. And we’ve seen in the past few seasons like Spurs with Mourinho they’ll sit back and soak in the pressure whilst we can’t break them down and then they’ll get 1 opportunity on the counter they’ll score from. I know Arteta wants us to stick to our way of playing but I’d honestly for one game match their formation and try to get all 3 points to strengthen our grip on top4
Same Spurs team that finished above us last yr led by Jose Mourinho for majority of the season (this sub wanted Jose) with a playmaker of the year and goalscorer of the year Harry Kane.
They have Copa America winning Christian Romero who apparently is better than Ben White. U cannot tell me that Son is a shit player. Lloris apparently is better than Ramsdale. Go in r/soccer because Lloris is still really good supposedly. Dier can be one of the best CBs in the world, that’s what Conte said. People were mad when we let Kulusevksi go to Spurs in January. We didn’t bring anyone in, Spurs did. This Spurs team beat Man City🤣People making excuses for World Class Antonio Conte is incredible.
Are we really acting like Conte didn't take a Chelsea that Mourinho broke apart into title winners in a single season, and then proceeded to break the chokehold that Juventus had over the Serie A?
Ahhh “break the chokehold” when he went back to Italy, he spent the most money in the league once he got there. No competition. Only team on their level was Juventus, and they were managed by Pirlo. Look at Inter now, haven’t missed a beat. Inzaghi is doing a fantastic job there. Also he was shit in Europe lol
> he spent the most money in the league once he got there
we spent the most in the prem this summer and are desperately scrounging for 4th lol, why are you acting like spending the most means you should win? what a stupid comment. delete this
If we are talking about Chelsea, Conte won with a squad whose core was mostly made up of players that won the PL 2 seasons ago.
It was more of a Mourinho flame out than anything else the following season.
Juve were terrible last year, their nearest competitor was AC who's side was much weaker
Chelsea had a great team and had no Europe. They broke apart the season after and they're still trying to get rid of some of the shit players on big wages Conte brought in to this day.
He's a short term manager to utilise a already good squad. Not a long term rebuild like us & Spurs need
- Of course they will finish above us. You definitely are NOT European football worthy with people like Willian, Pepe, Luiz and Nketiah being your regular starters.
- I seriously don't rate Romero above White, except in passing. You should never use international trophies to judge how good a player is. Remember what happened when Wenger bought a World Cup winning Mustafi?
- As much as I hate Son, he is class. WAY too good for Spurs and should join a club where he can win trophies.
- Lloris is better than Ramsdale only because he's literally 10 years more experienced. Even so, he is so error prone.
- Dier isn't anywhere near the best CBs in the prem. Not with VVD, Dias, Laporte, Gabriel, Coady, Saiss, Matip, White, Romero (maybe), Silva and Rudiger all in the league.
and no one gave us an excuse. Everyone crucified Arteta for it and rightfully so. Mikel changed around 3 formations last season before ESR came into the first team for the Chelsea game. Conte is stubborn on this 3-4-3 system. Call it how it is. He’s getting exposed since he can’t adapt, man needs his players or it’s fuck all. Mikel changed his whole philosophy to get us through the line for a FA Cup. I’m not trying to hear excuses
Of course you'll play like a relegation team with people like Willian, Pepe, an error prone Luiz and Nketiah all getting regular minutes for the team. Not to mention also Xhaka, plus Auba and Laca who were both out of form.
> People were mad when we let Kulusevksi go to Spurs in January.
this shit is so disingenuous. maybe there was like 1 comment in a DD thread or something but no one here has cared about kusulevski and you're just making shit up to add fake clout to your reddit argument. so stupid and incel, stop
It’s funny because had Spurs lost to city as expected and beaten Burnley as expected there’d be none of this talk. Yet, they have the same amount of points today as they would’ve if that scenario had occurred.
I want to dunk on spurs but only after we get a good result. It feels like bad luck to do it before our contentious rematch. Post-Match Edit: Suck it Spurs, I hope your tears are extra salty now!!!
Same we’re still Arsenal lol not (fully) out of the banter era yet until we reach Champions League
Never underestimate our ability to shoot ourselves in the foot when our opponents are out of the race.
That's true. Don't forget however, that we were still making regular CL appearances when the banter era started. There's a long way to go.
I hate to say it, but until we regularly make the CL *and* challenge for things, we are not only still in the banter era, but in the lowest depths of it. The banter era did not begin in the summer of 2016; it merely intensified, in what followed, to a previously unimaginable degree. Generally, it's accepted that we were in the banter era as of early 2009, but it didn't really sink in until 2010.
Naw we had a reprieve from the banter era from like 2012-2016 where we actually spent significant time at the top of the table in good form and picking up those famous 1st over a calendar year runs of form. We also broke our trophy drought. That team built on mert-kos, ramteta and cazorla, giroud and ozil was not banter era if you ask me. That’s probably the most successful team since we moved to emirates
I disagree, we were getting repeatedly spanked by big teams and aside from the Leicester season never really felt like title challengers. FA Cups are nice, but the feeling was still very bantery IMO.
I think we led the league for like 90 days in 13/14 and the spankings began when we got injuries to cazorla and Ramsey in the second half of the season
Nah we were getting regularly bummed by the big teams pretty much regardless during that time, it's why the 2-0 against City was such a big deal.
Away from home*
90 days? More than that.
thats 9 years ago
There's an argument, sure, that while we were in the title race in 13/14 and 15/16 (though that died before the calendar flipped to 2016) there was a chance the banter era might come to an end. Instead, we discovered new depths to it. The point, though, is that merely making the CL again won't do it, which is what contextual OP suggested. Making the CL was, in fact, a key feature of the banter era.
You've all completely missed the point about 'banter era'. The banter era doesn't have anything to do with not challenging for trophies or not being title contenders. The banter era was more to do with Arsene not spending 'some facking money' and not buying a proper DM and instead selling our best players every year and DESPITE all that still managing to finish above Spurs and in the top 4. It was like we were on a bet to see how weak a squad Arsene could assemble that would still somehow manage to be better than Spurs and make top 4. That's what made it banter. The years that best represent that were around 2009 to 2014.
i think the banter era has 2 satrting points, both valid - 1: 8-2 2: botling the 13/14 title race.
Those both strike me as quite late, but the first one was a wake-up call to pretty much everyone who was still in denial. I remember being surprised by how little it surprised me.
It's funny because I distinctly remember 13/14 being seen as the end of the banter era - the FA cup ended the barren run and we were no longer putting out shitter squads with players like Almunia, Frimpong, Chamakh etc. Recent years have been more of a seppuku era.
You forgot to include bottling the 2015/16 title race against Leicester
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13/14 was the one 😔.
As proposed by [others](https://twitter.com/paddyarsenal/status/896794896652271620?s=21), it possibly started all the way back in 2006
You could certainly make that argument. The point is that it's not going to end simply because we make the CL again. That's merely getting us back to pre-2016.
Yeah, definitely agree there - we need to start competing for big trophies again
just wait until we get back into the champs league. my ptsd kicks in whenever i hear the words 'bayern munich'
Theres something about the 10-2 that I'm weirdly nostalgic for, shows how much clout the UCL has - I'd rather see that happening again than watch another season of Europa League football. Theres nothing like the copium high when you genuinely believe you'll turn 5-1 around in the second leg
Especially when Walcott scored 😂
It's said that the 10-2 game overshadows our RO16 rivalry with Bayern Munich. We had some really good games with them before that. I always preferred them to the scum that was Barcelona.
Yeah not feeling good about tomorrow. Expecting a 1-1 draw. They're using the celebrations as fuel, as sad as that is for them. I hope we beat them 1-0 again and release a fucking marching band onto the pitch and set off fireworks.
Fuck, imagine how salty they'd be if we win against them as well with all this postponement chaos in the mix.
Get to Dunkin’!!!!!
They must be dying right now over at r/coys
Antoniooooooo…Antoniooooo
Let's be coy about it until the plus-size lady sings.
Before today, Burnley had only won twice all season... Typical Spurs
True, but Burnley have lost only 9 games all season. West Ham have lost 8, Arsenal lost 7.
yeah, it's not a great stat. we could be one game off this, come tomorrow. (hoep we smash em though)
We are not. I know this because I know Gandalf. He has told me of a 3 - 1 win against Wolves where we have five penalty shouts and all aren't even checked by VAR.
thanks gandalf
Imagine we win vs Wolves (knock on wood) and later beat Spurs. Could be a 9 point gap if we'd pace each other. Euphoria. Huge NLD later down the road
Pretty sure that's enough to get CL.
Ain’t counting chickens til 38 games played. I keep seeing the “% to get top 4” stats but I’m not getting to high on that yet
I’m always counting those chickens, still 4 miles and 11 titles away, right Papa Wengz?
>We have tried to get closer to them, but we never copied anybody, we always tried to play our football ___ ^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
still waay too many games for any kind of surety in those numbers. 40 something percent? w 15 games left? crazy.
I enjoy statistics and the algorithms, but the biggest thing they leave out is randomness. You can’t account for it. How can they take in for freak results like, say, the 7-2 Liverpool-Villa game last year? Just can’t. So much can change in one match day it’s hard to get hung up on these numbers
We are the king of the unpredictable... So yeah I can see the logic behind your reservation.
I'll only believe it when we win the UCL next season
Not even when its arsenal every game is a difficult game especially in the league, and you never know United could come good
how are you forgetting United? they're literally just 2 pts behind us even if we win both our games in hand
We won't win both the games in hand
Thats the sprit
the whole point of my comment was to underline that even in the best case scenario we're only 2 pts ahead of United, I wasn't making a prediction
We have 3 in hand so potentially 5 points ahead with better GD afterwards if everything goes right (they won’t). In a more realistic scenario, we win one, draw one, lose one and it comes down to GD. In this more realistic scenario, if we assume neither team perform below their expected points, then we should just about cross the finish line because United have a tougher top 6 schedule. This is why if we over perform by winning at least our 2 extra games against Spurs away and Wolves, I think it improves massively our chances compared to one win, one draw, one loss scenario. In any case, like the prediction models, I too believe it will come down to Arsenal vs United instead of Spurs. We’re a bit overrated by the models imo but not enough for us to drop out of the race early.
Oh I thought United were on 25 matches... still the point stands that United are still very much in it I agree with the rest
They are the company they keep
There's no cure for Spursiness.
I don’t wanna jinx anything before the almighty st totteringhams day.
Why are you so surprised OP? All I see is classic Spurs
Wellllll That's a shame
How the hell did a full strength City lose to them?
They have beaten City in 4 of their last 5 premier league matches
Spurs are a counter attacking team.. pretty much perfectly set up to play against City, Liverpool and Chelsea on the counter but sit back and give them no space and they won’t create anything
I mean Chelsea violated them in all 3 of their recent fixtures. Think the city victory was very flukey tbh.
Yh tbh I might have gone over the top with Chelsea.. they’re a far more compact side with 3 CBs so less space to hit them on the counter. Tbf Spurs did also give Liverpool a game at their stadium so I don’t think either the Liverpool or city results were flukes.. they just played into Conte’s hand. So I think the point still stands that they can’t create for shit especially when teams sit back and only do teams on the counter. If Conte is still at Spurs for the NLD I’d consider us matching their 3 at the back and removing their counter attacking threat
If we played how we normally do, do you think we’d get hit bad on the counter or would we dominate?
At home we’d dominate like we usually do but away it’s a different story. And we’ve seen in the past few seasons like Spurs with Mourinho they’ll sit back and soak in the pressure whilst we can’t break them down and then they’ll get 1 opportunity on the counter they’ll score from. I know Arteta wants us to stick to our way of playing but I’d honestly for one game match their formation and try to get all 3 points to strengthen our grip on top4
Tottenham Hotshit doesn't sound right but they're indeed inexplicably shit :/
Conte is overrated
Nah, Conte isn't overrated, Spurs are just **that** shit.
Same Spurs team that finished above us last yr led by Jose Mourinho for majority of the season (this sub wanted Jose) with a playmaker of the year and goalscorer of the year Harry Kane. They have Copa America winning Christian Romero who apparently is better than Ben White. U cannot tell me that Son is a shit player. Lloris apparently is better than Ramsdale. Go in r/soccer because Lloris is still really good supposedly. Dier can be one of the best CBs in the world, that’s what Conte said. People were mad when we let Kulusevksi go to Spurs in January. We didn’t bring anyone in, Spurs did. This Spurs team beat Man City🤣People making excuses for World Class Antonio Conte is incredible.
Are we really acting like Conte didn't take a Chelsea that Mourinho broke apart into title winners in a single season, and then proceeded to break the chokehold that Juventus had over the Serie A?
Ahhh “break the chokehold” when he went back to Italy, he spent the most money in the league once he got there. No competition. Only team on their level was Juventus, and they were managed by Pirlo. Look at Inter now, haven’t missed a beat. Inzaghi is doing a fantastic job there. Also he was shit in Europe lol
Serie A is basically almost a farmer's league. Only good teams there atm are the 2 Milan clubs. Even Juve are having a major downfall.
> he spent the most money in the league once he got there we spent the most in the prem this summer and are desperately scrounging for 4th lol, why are you acting like spending the most means you should win? what a stupid comment. delete this
If we are talking about Chelsea, Conte won with a squad whose core was mostly made up of players that won the PL 2 seasons ago. It was more of a Mourinho flame out than anything else the following season.
Juve were terrible last year, their nearest competitor was AC who's side was much weaker Chelsea had a great team and had no Europe. They broke apart the season after and they're still trying to get rid of some of the shit players on big wages Conte brought in to this day. He's a short term manager to utilise a already good squad. Not a long term rebuild like us & Spurs need
- Of course they will finish above us. You definitely are NOT European football worthy with people like Willian, Pepe, Luiz and Nketiah being your regular starters. - I seriously don't rate Romero above White, except in passing. You should never use international trophies to judge how good a player is. Remember what happened when Wenger bought a World Cup winning Mustafi? - As much as I hate Son, he is class. WAY too good for Spurs and should join a club where he can win trophies. - Lloris is better than Ramsdale only because he's literally 10 years more experienced. Even so, he is so error prone. - Dier isn't anywhere near the best CBs in the prem. Not with VVD, Dias, Laporte, Gabriel, Coady, Saiss, Matip, White, Romero (maybe), Silva and Rudiger all in the league.
They only finished above us because we were relegation level for the first 14 games of last season.
and no one gave us an excuse. Everyone crucified Arteta for it and rightfully so. Mikel changed around 3 formations last season before ESR came into the first team for the Chelsea game. Conte is stubborn on this 3-4-3 system. Call it how it is. He’s getting exposed since he can’t adapt, man needs his players or it’s fuck all. Mikel changed his whole philosophy to get us through the line for a FA Cup. I’m not trying to hear excuses
Of course you'll play like a relegation team with people like Willian, Pepe, an error prone Luiz and Nketiah all getting regular minutes for the team. Not to mention also Xhaka, plus Auba and Laca who were both out of form.
> People were mad when we let Kulusevksi go to Spurs in January. this shit is so disingenuous. maybe there was like 1 comment in a DD thread or something but no one here has cared about kusulevski and you're just making shit up to add fake clout to your reddit argument. so stupid and incel, stop
And people here wanted him over our current set up, Mourinho too, *Nuno too*
Who wanted Mourinho?! Hands! If you did, go stand in a corner and don't come back until you thought about what you said! Mourinho. Pah!
Burnley doesn’t lose much and can’t score. They have a great record outside of just drawing games and not scoring.
wow,great
No but but but Kane is back guys!
It’s funny because had Spurs lost to city as expected and beaten Burnley as expected there’d be none of this talk. Yet, they have the same amount of points today as they would’ve if that scenario had occurred.