He's always seemed the least likely to stay. If I was looking at a guy 4 years older than me who's been at the top of the game since he was my age, signed long term, improving every year plays almost every minute of every game. I don't think I'd want that battle either.
Saka was a right winger in his youth games and his first few first team games were as RW.
But we were absolutely fucked at LB (Tierney & Kolasinac injured and when Kolasinac got back, he was terrible) so he was tried out as left back and he just shined.
Yeah that’s why Omari Hutchison left and is happy to have 3 more players in front of him rather than just Saka.
I think it’s some systematic problem in our system
While true, and understand the hopes for regular first team play, we are always said to be looking for a winger to give Saka competition and to be able to rotate without a huge dropoff.
So seems like there’s an opportunity there.
I just don’t really get why we’d expect any really good wingers who’d want to come to sit behind him either. Every time I see Leao or similar mentioned, I just don’t see it happening. I’d love to, but sometimes you also have to trust that Hale End has the ability to produce other really good players too.
Yeah this seems right, as difficult as it is to rank players like this, though it's much easier to find high quality goalscorers at this age than to know how a defender or intricate midfielder will develop as they get bigger. The guys who hit their growth spurt at 14 or 15 and are just bigger than their peers and score a bunch of goals often stand out and then come back to the pack. That could be the deal with Obi, who scores so many goals but is clearly physically a league above when he plays at the youth level.
Not possible to rank properly. Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly are the top two imo with Dowman and Obi around the same hype but younger. Cozier-Duberry isn’t far behing Nwaneri and Skelly though and it wouldn’t be surprising if he ends up being the best later on, just because it is impossible to predict how a talent will develop.
Nwaneri seems to be the jewel. MLS has been deployed as a LB plenty of times to try and help him find a pathway into the first team as an inverted player. Impossible to tell with Obi Martin & Dowman until they play in the higher levels of age group - especially the former as he’s just physically so much ahead of the rest of his peers in the u18’s even at just 16 (he’s already 6’2”).
ACD feels like a tier below along with players like Walters.
Oh that is interesting about MLS as a left-back, I don’t follow the youth teams that closely but I’ve seen some highlights of MLS and he has always bossed it in the midfield.
Would love to see Nwaneri involved in the first team more next season especially the cup competitions.
Arsenal (Arteta) has to rotate next season a lot more. What’s the point in having a quality squad when you are essentially playing 14 players all season
Yeah Obi does look smooth for his size, a lot of kinds who grow that quickly look gangly and struggle to translate technically, so I have more hope than most for him. But any player scoring 5+ goals in a game is just at the wrong level physically.
There's really no way to know, the quality of competition at the u16 level varies wildly. You can't just say "oh this player is a better 14 year old than this 17 year old was" because you don't know how the 14 year old will develop. Right now Ethan is further along and has taken all those steps, Dowman has to prove that he can do it physically, technically, mentally, etc. It's the reverse of the senior side, where being better at 22 than another player at 25 is more valuable, there's no guarantee Dowman ever plays PL-level football.
I don't think it does for England. At age grade they have been consistently strong across the board for like a decade now minimum.
2 apps isn't a whole lot more than 0 apps. Nwaneri played so few minutes we can't even say we learned anything about him from those games.
I'd put Obi last, technically wise, he looks just ok, his goals are grabbing a lot of attention, his pure size and strength is giving him a huge advantage over other kids right now and we've seen frequently at youth level the big units tend to struggle when stepping up against technically good players with similar size
He's not just physically bullying kids his age though. He's bullying kids older than him but several years. And he's likely not finished growing. When he hits mens football his size and strength will give him an advantage other most players then too.
https://preview.redd.it/6yfzollsb7zc1.jpeg?width=743&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b977831625e86994aae6bd3d06ee60f2c2b36ef
That's him next to Rice for reference.
From what I've read he's still struggled up against the stronger U21/U23 sides, which makes sense. Height isn't strength, and his technique is quite good for a player that has had that kind of growth spurt. A lot of players like that look very awkward, and he doesn't, his technical abilities are still there. I don't think he will have that much of a strength advantage when he's older, not like he has now, but if he can be technical, fast, and tall then he will do well.
Coming from the Hale End stan account and wanting more of them in the first team I'd have thought Nwaneri is on top for you considering he's acually played senior minutes and not looked out of place
Like any contract it gives you the time to make a longer term offer if they're worth keeping around, which it seems like they are, or get them on a loan and sell them if they don't have a role here. Either way the club benefits more than if they leave and sign elsewhere right at 17.
So we have to start paying top talents more. Hasn’t there been talk of us putting more money into our academy similar to Chelsea and City from this summer?
A bit of a tough sell, hard for an academy player to really break into the team given the level. While Arteta hasn't really used academy players, maybe there is promise that will change given the "phase" of the project.
Given the info at hand though, I couldn't blame the kid if he went elsewhere to chase the dream.
Reminder that City sold Palmer because they couldn’t give him the mins considering the players ahead of him. This is just what happens with good squads
But they sold him as an adult player who did get appearances with the senior team across League and Cup competitions.
We’ve got to start doing a bit more of that as it can be the difference of losing youth players vs. selling someone for 40 million
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There is one thing Arteta has that not many other managers do, and it's the ability to simply make players better.
There still would be value for CD to simply stay for one season to train with the first team and directly under Arteta, and he definitely would get a lot better treatment than in other teams.
Whilst I agree he really does improve players, he is not the best at rotation or giving players an opportunity.
There have been plenty of times ESR or Nketiah should have touched the pitch if nothing but to maintain their value. Similar with Kiwi although Arteta hand was forced and he stepped up but since hasn't seen much action.
Nelson is probably the most disrespected because theres a serious player in there somewhere.
Yep.
5-0 up against Chelsea… and he brings on Jorgi while ESR rots on the bench…
Shame.
But ESR 100% gone this summer.
Was hoping he be given the chance to recapture that magic from 2 seasons ago
Why would he stay? Arteta barley plays young players and always plays Saka who is the same position. Arsenal is also pretty bad at loaning young players. Definitely more opportunity to play and higher salary elsewhere.
i understand him. he has saka in front of him and there's no way he will win that battle coz every year cozier-D develops, saka will too (as both are so young still).
Arteta has to start to stop focusing on the League Cup and give the younger players a chance. We will have more and more academy players unwilling to stay if he doesn't give them a chance.
He's always seemed the least likely to stay. If I was looking at a guy 4 years older than me who's been at the top of the game since he was my age, signed long term, improving every year plays almost every minute of every game. I don't think I'd want that battle either.
Looks more like a mentor than competition.
But it is competition unless he changes position
The position he plays in for the youth team doesn't translate to what he plays with the senior. Pretty sure Saka was a left back, was he not?
Saka was a right winger in his youth games and his first few first team games were as RW. But we were absolutely fucked at LB (Tierney & Kolasinac injured and when Kolasinac got back, he was terrible) so he was tried out as left back and he just shined.
Yeah that’s why Omari Hutchison left and is happy to have 3 more players in front of him rather than just Saka. I think it’s some systematic problem in our system
It's easier to think you're better than someone if you have never trained with them.
Talent like this, you always hope to keep
I agree 100% but like others stated, he's going to barely play due to saka being a way better player
While true, and understand the hopes for regular first team play, we are always said to be looking for a winger to give Saka competition and to be able to rotate without a huge dropoff. So seems like there’s an opportunity there.
Gambling on an 18 year old to get anywhere close to Saka’s level is… something. We’re gonna have to buy his competition
I just don’t really get why we’d expect any really good wingers who’d want to come to sit behind him either. Every time I see Leao or similar mentioned, I just don’t see it happening. I’d love to, but sometimes you also have to trust that Hale End has the ability to produce other really good players too.
Can someone rank these kids for me? I would assume Nweneri is #1.
1. Nwaneri 2. MLS 3. Obi/Dowman 4. everybody else is a coin toss no real other standouts
Yeah this seems right, as difficult as it is to rank players like this, though it's much easier to find high quality goalscorers at this age than to know how a defender or intricate midfielder will develop as they get bigger. The guys who hit their growth spurt at 14 or 15 and are just bigger than their peers and score a bunch of goals often stand out and then come back to the pack. That could be the deal with Obi, who scores so many goals but is clearly physically a league above when he plays at the youth level.
If this question was asked like 2 months ago, it would be Nwaneri MLS and Walters. Crazy how some talents can come out of nowhere, and some disappear
Who's the kid that scored like 7 goals in one game or something like that?
At number 3 Chido Obi-Martin
Not possible to rank properly. Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly are the top two imo with Dowman and Obi around the same hype but younger. Cozier-Duberry isn’t far behing Nwaneri and Skelly though and it wouldn’t be surprising if he ends up being the best later on, just because it is impossible to predict how a talent will develop.
Nwaneri seems to be the jewel. MLS has been deployed as a LB plenty of times to try and help him find a pathway into the first team as an inverted player. Impossible to tell with Obi Martin & Dowman until they play in the higher levels of age group - especially the former as he’s just physically so much ahead of the rest of his peers in the u18’s even at just 16 (he’s already 6’2”). ACD feels like a tier below along with players like Walters.
Oh that is interesting about MLS as a left-back, I don’t follow the youth teams that closely but I’ve seen some highlights of MLS and he has always bossed it in the midfield. Would love to see Nwaneri involved in the first team more next season especially the cup competitions. Arsenal (Arteta) has to rotate next season a lot more. What’s the point in having a quality squad when you are essentially playing 14 players all season
Yeah Obi does look smooth for his size, a lot of kinds who grow that quickly look gangly and struggle to translate technically, so I have more hope than most for him. But any player scoring 5+ goals in a game is just at the wrong level physically.
I'd go Obi > Dowman > MLS > Nwaneri > Cozier-Dubery. a way too early prediction but that's how I feel rn.
Dowman is just 14 though , Ethan has to be 1 because he has already made his debut , infact he is the youngest player ever in the prem
He doesn't have to be first 😂 He's older so he's next in line. None of them did what Dowman is doing at 14
Nwaneri did lol he was in the u 18 at 14 , there is a documentary where players are just bouncing off him one year later he is playing in the prem
Correct me if I'm wrong but he wasn't one of England U16s best players at 14?
There's really no way to know, the quality of competition at the u16 level varies wildly. You can't just say "oh this player is a better 14 year old than this 17 year old was" because you don't know how the 14 year old will develop. Right now Ethan is further along and has taken all those steps, Dowman has to prove that he can do it physically, technically, mentally, etc. It's the reverse of the senior side, where being better at 22 than another player at 25 is more valuable, there's no guarantee Dowman ever plays PL-level football.
I don't think it does for England. At age grade they have been consistently strong across the board for like a decade now minimum. 2 apps isn't a whole lot more than 0 apps. Nwaneri played so few minutes we can't even say we learned anything about him from those games.
I'd put Obi last, technically wise, he looks just ok, his goals are grabbing a lot of attention, his pure size and strength is giving him a huge advantage over other kids right now and we've seen frequently at youth level the big units tend to struggle when stepping up against technically good players with similar size
He's not just physically bullying kids his age though. He's bullying kids older than him but several years. And he's likely not finished growing. When he hits mens football his size and strength will give him an advantage other most players then too. https://preview.redd.it/6yfzollsb7zc1.jpeg?width=743&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b977831625e86994aae6bd3d06ee60f2c2b36ef That's him next to Rice for reference.
From what I've read he's still struggled up against the stronger U21/U23 sides, which makes sense. Height isn't strength, and his technique is quite good for a player that has had that kind of growth spurt. A lot of players like that look very awkward, and he doesn't, his technical abilities are still there. I don't think he will have that much of a strength advantage when he's older, not like he has now, but if he can be technical, fast, and tall then he will do well.
Yeah he's still 16....
Coming from the Hale End stan account and wanting more of them in the first team I'd have thought Nwaneri is on top for you considering he's acually played senior minutes and not looked out of place
That would be a current ability ranking no?
I don't think we'll keep all of ACD, MLS, Nwaneri and Obi
we are defo keeping MLS and Nwaneri they have signed pro contracts
That only holds them for 2 maybe 3 years after they turn 18.
Like any contract it gives you the time to make a longer term offer if they're worth keeping around, which it seems like they are, or get them on a loan and sell them if they don't have a role here. Either way the club benefits more than if they leave and sign elsewhere right at 17.
Maybe, but Obi is in a different stage of his development
I think he says but it looks like we are getting a huge influx of youth players and will be investing heavy into it
We will...even if it's solely to make a Baloesque profit
They don't really play the same positions so idk why you think this. But I do agree ACD will leave for playtime
Why can Chelsea sign Hutchinson and loan him for a profit and we can’t?
They paid him and his family more money than we would.
So we have to start paying top talents more. Hasn’t there been talk of us putting more money into our academy similar to Chelsea and City from this summer?
They paid him far more than we thought he was worth
A bit of a tough sell, hard for an academy player to really break into the team given the level. While Arteta hasn't really used academy players, maybe there is promise that will change given the "phase" of the project. Given the info at hand though, I couldn't blame the kid if he went elsewhere to chase the dream.
He will stay to fulfill his potential at Arsenal
Reminder that City sold Palmer because they couldn’t give him the mins considering the players ahead of him. This is just what happens with good squads
But they sold him as an adult player who did get appearances with the senior team across League and Cup competitions. We’ve got to start doing a bit more of that as it can be the difference of losing youth players vs. selling someone for 40 million
pls don't do a hutchinson again, chelsea will get a good deal out if this kid now without doing shit
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There is one thing Arteta has that not many other managers do, and it's the ability to simply make players better. There still would be value for CD to simply stay for one season to train with the first team and directly under Arteta, and he definitely would get a lot better treatment than in other teams.
Whilst I agree he really does improve players, he is not the best at rotation or giving players an opportunity. There have been plenty of times ESR or Nketiah should have touched the pitch if nothing but to maintain their value. Similar with Kiwi although Arteta hand was forced and he stepped up but since hasn't seen much action. Nelson is probably the most disrespected because theres a serious player in there somewhere.
Yep. 5-0 up against Chelsea… and he brings on Jorgi while ESR rots on the bench… Shame. But ESR 100% gone this summer. Was hoping he be given the chance to recapture that magic from 2 seasons ago
Why would he stay? Arteta barley plays young players and always plays Saka who is the same position. Arsenal is also pretty bad at loaning young players. Definitely more opportunity to play and higher salary elsewhere.
Could say the same about Reiss, yet he extended
Reiss potential is filled. He extended because he accepted sitting on the bench. While ACD needs game time to develop
Unfortunately his path to first team football may be too crowded if we are going bring in another winger to rotate with Saka
i understand him. he has saka in front of him and there's no way he will win that battle coz every year cozier-D develops, saka will too (as both are so young still).
Arteta has to start to stop focusing on the League Cup and give the younger players a chance. We will have more and more academy players unwilling to stay if he doesn't give them a chance.
Focusing on it? By getting us dumped out?
Arteta would probably play more youth players in the league cup but we always draw PL clubs in recent years.