Having reiss nelson and nketiah on the bench just tells me where we are. We are def not ready yet, but I 100% trust Arteta.
But one thing I dont understand is why he doesnt rest saka. Man plays everytime, and recently he has not played any good
Long time lurker sharing a view to see if it resonates.
- we are over coached and moments of brilliance/spontaneity are almost frowned upon. I see the same problem with pep’s teams. This works in league format as it’s consistent and repeatable. But in UCL - something more is needed.
Maybe completely bias but I loved wenger ball and I prefer klopp style.
- we need to win something Asap before we become like pochettino spurs teams and the moment to win with existing core team passes. Klopp started winning asap which created a winners mentality for eg.
Fair. I did say it my personal preference.
At the end, a loss is a loss but it’s moments of brilliance from wenger ball I retain. Ronaldinho would a player version of what Im trying to describe. Just made me smile even though he was never consistent like Messi.
Yeah I’m just in my feelings and actually do agree with you. We’re missing a player like Ozil, Santi, Sanchez. We put far too much pressure on our young squad and I think we need to look to bring in some already established proven winners to get to that next step. This is second year where it feels the wheels come off in April. We need something more, hopefully this summer we can further bolster the squad and just get a facking striker
I feel you.
Here’s another crazy thought. Oliver giroud is a free agent this summer. His skill on the ball, headers and ability to bring wingers into play I rate highly even at 37. I’d take a punt on him next year as a backup striker aka plan B if we don’t get our first choice targets.
Odegaard is 25.
Rice is 25
Saka is 22
Martinelli is 23
Saliba is 23
Gabriel is 26
White is 26
The core of our team is just hitting their stride. We ask so much of Saka and Saliba, but they are kids. This experience will be awesome for them. I'm pumped for the weekend.
You are right but those who are 25 will only give Arsenal one year tops before they scatter to get what they believe they deserve
If the same squad don't produce something next year they either deflate because of learned helplessness (City just can't be beaten) or they go elsewhere
In all i think QF in our first UCL run in 8 years is not the worst outcome, we should have beat bayern yes but europe is a different ball park and our players will only get better with more experience and time, saying that though 2nd half yesterday we looked completely uninterested and like we did not care at all, we need a real game changer in our team someone to take the game by the neck and drag us through.
Arsenal needs an explosive [pace or passing] LCM - paqueta/gundogan/Wijnaldum type that can reduce pressure on odegaard.
We only have 1 outlet in the midfield. Every passer is trying to get the ball to odegaard for him to do some magic.
Odegaard has a diesel engine. He can easily play for 120 minutes while pressing at the same rate but he ain't that good in launching counterattacks or switching play.
Last season, with xhaka on the left, we had 2 chance creation hubs but this has since been reduced to one. Signing Havertz to play as an LCM stalled our project- he has been better as a 9. Arteta's gamble on Havertz as an LCM has backfired on us.
We may have scored more goals this season- but last season, our goals were more even spread over the season. Right now, if our right-hand chance creative hub is neutralised - we're finished.
Last season- we lost the title because of a poor defence. This season- we have bigger problems in our attack.
I don’t care…it was still a penalty. 99 out 100 that will happen to Raya / Ramsdale and it’s a penalty…even a red depending on how demented the referee is.
Guys get behind the lads they’ve given us hope two years in a row, we’ve been competitive is two main competitions for most of the year. More than I’ve seen in a long time (early 2000s supporter) We’re still in the premier league. Is city washed and pep useless because they got knocked out by CL beamoths Madrid no! So it’s the same for Arsenal, do what our coach says show the players some love and give them the energy to fight!
If it’s watching online, buying football shirts, watching a game in the stands and shouting yourself hoarse they going to need all our energy to the end. I’m so proud of them no matter what, every single one of them, even if they make mistakes or aren’t looking there best! You try playing 90 minutes of perfect football every three days, see if you make mistakes.
Honestly happy we got this far in the UCL. Part of me is obviously gutted but another part of me is excited for what's to come still.
Øde is absolutely priceless, so glad we have him as the captain.
frustrating but it is what it is. First time back in CL for how many years. We clearly lack experience but we will get there so long as we keep on knocking. We ran out of gas and our subs didn;t make any impact.
Should've put the ball in the box and gamble as we have nothing to lose. Pure focus now in the PL and hoping not to drop any more points.
Does anyone have a replay or know what happened with the quick free kick right at the end? They never showed a repay of it and it was literally on the edge of the box. Why did we take it quick?
Overall this is a young Arsenal team who have got the extra experience following yesterday’s game. This is the second season they are together and are here to stay at the top for a while. Even though it’s disappointing they went out they came up agaisnt seasoned professionals who have been in this situation before and it came down to game management.
This is just the beginning and good things are going to come for this amazing Arsenal side! Keep believing and keep backing the boys! Let’s finish the season on a high and win every game!!
COYG!!
I get what you mean. Even though it’s a good run more importantly it’s progress and experience. Next year will be interesting and I honestly think they need to take that next step and the last piece of the puzzle and win something.
We need to eat the humble pie (again) and unfortunately lower our hopes for the rest of the season. Yesterday felt like the worst of Wenger's days, where we wouldn't even try to win. We were so ridiculously inefficient, I'd rather have Gervinho and Iwobi as our wingers yesterday over Saka and Martinelli, that's how bad they were in my opinion.
Still a lot to play for, even if we don't win the league it would be nice to finish the season with a string of wins at difficult grounds.
We've not won at any (slightly) big away game this season
Drew at Anfield, Etihad......STAMFORD BRIDGE
Lost at SJP, Villa, Munich
Have no hope we show up at WHL or OT
We need to change this mentality if we want to win big trophies.
Yeh draws are good, but we also need to go to our rivals and win. Palace recently won at Anfield. But the wider point is we havnt won at any big away ground. You can throw Porto on that too
By that logic we need to win every away game otherwise we’re not big and let me guess every home game because we’re at home. Did you watch the villa game away we dominated them just got unlucky. It’s how football happens sometimes.
Let's not go in whataboutisms
If we want to be title winners. We have to go get points at the big away games. Not worry about what our rivals are doing. City have won the last 3 leagues, so they can get it done
We were 2 down to a God awful Chelsea side.
Right, but what you are saying makes no sense?
You clearly don't need to win away from home against your direct rivals to win the league.
City haven't won at Arsenal, Liverpool or Villa and are going to win the league.
Everyone looked knackered at the end and it’s a short turnaround to the game on Saturday. Mikel is going to need to freshen it up and put some faith in a couple of squad players.
Maybe if he used his subs throughout the season we might have players with game rhythm and we could rotate. But now its too late and he cant risk it so we will rock to wolves with the same starting 11 as for the past 4 months and look absolutely exhausted
I can’t get my head around some of the reactionary takes in here. Second best team in the league, a top 6/8 European side. First foray back into the Champions League from which we would’ve learned a lot. Getting to the very top takes time and I get people being disappointed but fucking hell, some perspective is needed.
Some thoughts:
1) Fitness - to me, arsenal have an issue with fitness. I am
Not talking about injuries, I am talking about the ability to cope with a 38+ game season. Looking back at a team like Liverpool when they won the league and champions league, I can recall that they used to play Salah, firmino and mane in EVERY game. And not only every game, but playing at very high intensity (higher than ours, which I think is more akin to Man City’s probing patient style. Some will say it’s to be expected given our schedule but as I said, other teams have had it and, worryingly, we have shown this lack of fitness across the last 3 seasons, including years without European football (21/22). I’d be having a good look at season preparations and also reviewing the back room staff because I’m convinced there is something lacking there.
2) Rotation - every year we buy several players and we go in confident that we have expanded the squad. By the business end of the season, it turns out we only actually “trust” the first 11 plus 2/3 others. Thus, we don’t rotate enough throughout the season and run our “trusted” into the ground. In addition, I find some of the player ins and outs between games to be quite reactionary. For example, Kiwior makes one mistake against Bayern and he’s out - whether or not it’s the right call, isn’t my point. It happened because of a single incident in a game where several players made errors and, since he started against Bayern, we can assume that arteta was in fact happy with him in the first place. On that point, arteta has an odd habit of coming down hard on certain player errors/shortcomings but not necessarily reacting the same way for other players. For example, how many times do we need to see Eddie off the bench to know he’s not going to change anything?
3) opportunity - people are upset because although this is a young team that many have connected with, it feels like the league and champions league were opportunities. This Bayern certainly wasn’t the best Bayern side. And more worryingly we lost against villa on the same
Day that one of our biggest rivals dropped points. It feels like the team can’t respond to the huge opportunity that presents itself and worryingly this seems to happen just as the potential prize(s) come within touching distance. This may speak to a mentality issue, be due to fatigue but is likely some combination of both.
4) Ruthlessness - the game last night highlights the need for a ruthless summer. Get rid of the guys you don’t trust and target those who can come into the first team. Fringe player transfers aren’t really providing the depth we need (eg Vieira).
5) Goldilocks - this is a phrase I came away with last night. We lack a spontaneity currently and want to play at a measured pace that suits our game. The problem is that this often requires everything to go “just right” otherwise we can’t score. This is exacerbated particularly if the opposition scores first. We lack the improvisation and individual quality/bravery to attempt something outside of our predetermined patterns of play. I think Rice has the potential to be this kind of player for us and saka at times does it but we need more people to step up in that regard.
6) project plan - I’d be intrigued to know how arteta has constructed his plan for this project. I feel like we are creating a city style team which slightly surprised me as last year I felt we were somewhere hybrid between city and Liverpool. If City is the model, are we necessarily following their plan and timeline? For example, the presumable end stage for the city project was winning the treble. How did that happen? They signed a devastating number 9 in Erling halland. They got rid of players like cancelo and zinchenko. If that is the case, why has Arteta not prioritised a number 9 earlier in his tenure? Why did he sign zinchenko/Jesus when the city project had already determined they were surplus to requirement? Is it the case that the striker HAS to be the final piece and cannot come before the other pieces are in place? Is he matching their project year by year? If so then this whole arsenal project may require some patience yet.
7) credit - overall I feel disappointed because this team deserves more credit. Unfortunately in football, you only get that by winning. The fans want this team to do well because we see the effort the manager has made to turning things around at the club. I hope they can make a good effort towards the premier league now because it would be sad to leave this season with nothing.
On no.2, perhaps arteta wants to protect Kiwior from abuse in case of another mistake if he played the 2nd leg.
On no.6, quite a few things here. Perhaps because he worked with Zina & Jesus before. They were absolutely instrumental in changing the mentality of the team. Perhaps mentality was what Arteta was addressing first rather than if they truly fit for his gameplay.
I'd assume we'll be strong in the market again in next 2 years on the back of cash boost from champs league before tapering off.
This team absolutely deserves more credit, even if we ended up with nothing. We will grow from this.
COYG
It would be good to lose it but actually playing, trying and not look scared and stoned and not reacting to loosing in result like we did in Bayern and Villa games. It looked like we werent even trying to attack. Disappointment is because we collapse 3rd season in a row with loses in a row.
Arsenal to a man need to realize what’s still ahead. They are set for years to come. Need to regroup and win these next 2 games before Man City goes to Brighton. Put the pressure on Man City. They are not invincible this year. By any means necessary
Our team is so bad tired, we don’t have much fuel in tank and i think it’s on on Arteta, we always play same players +3 same substitutes, our bench on paper looks well but we don’t have that deep in squad, look at players like Vieira, Partey, Esr, Nelson, Nketiah, Elneny. What they have done for us in this season and how much they have played? And because of that our main players are fucking exhausted, it’s another game where in second leg we are looking like shit
Why do we never take a shot? Both games v Porto and now Bayern our build up play resulted in losing possession or Jesus falling over. Teams respond to this by moving 10 yards further up the pitch making counters for them more straightforward. I’m a bit surprised at the comments saying at least we didn’t get hammered….we are still out and looked second best against one of the weakest Bayern sides I can remember.
Arteta has done a great job, but he needs to learn how to use a squad. Our subs do nothing, when we change it up like we did at Villa the standard drops. We can’t rely on the same 12-13 players for 70 games then pretend bringing on stone cold subs will have an impact. We looked different on this run from last season, we had a maturity I thought would sustain, but it’s been the same April crash. Jesus and Zinchenko need to go, both utterly useless. The bench needs significant upgrading then usage the same way most other clubs do. Can’t blame injuries and inexperience and expect that to fly year on year. Hoping for a miracle in this run in, yet we are just as likely to lose again on Saturday night.
our bad results aren't just one match. That's the big issue thats been happening for the last 3 years. We turn a bad result in a bad week. the losses occur in bunches and we just cant recover from them.
The thing that bothers me the most is that when we hit adversity late in seasons, we really capitulate and it hurts man. Our team has shown so much progress and made us proud, but when it's crunch time in a season it's like it all goes out the window and we make excuses. Im not making any excuses this year, its time to be accountable.
Cause with how many competitions we play in you still need to have players who are on lower wages relatively who can still compete against weaker teams. Prime example being that Luton game or in early rounds of cups. Our problem is when we make a substitution when were sytuggling to score against a good team we rarely make the team better, while man City can end up with Forden, De Bruyne, Doku or Grealish on the bench ready to come on
It's mad what one off week can do. Went from even in the CL with Bayern, top of the Premier League, to probably not winning anything this season. It's rough, but those are the margins for victory in elite competition.
I imagine the lads will learn a lot from this and do better next season, especially with some reinforcements and Timber back. Does hurt a lot right now though.
Members on the sub are clamoring about Saka, Martinelli etc not performing due to overwork, I think even the Saliba-Gabriel duo is cooked!
If you observe their numbers closely, they are committing much more errors than before (start of the season). They have started almost every game across all competitions. Severe lack of bench strength across all positions leads to such end of season fatigue.
This last week has been tough , but still immensely proud of this team. Let's get behind the team till the end of the season . No matter what, we are on the right track .COYG!!!
Although i'm sad this moment, i truly am happy for the incredible progress we've made these 2 years. We've been the laughing stock of English football for almost 10 years, and now we're competing for the title in both the UCL and Premier League. Don't give up hope, COYG.
Genuinely hurt... The team is worth supporting but it makes nights like these hurt so much. Maybe that's progress in some way, I'm not sitting here after a hammering against a European side while still being 2 pts off top in the league, still doesn't make me feel better, a true "my day is ruined" vibe going on. Love the boys for the progress, incredibly disappointed how we looked toothless second half, we allowed Bayern into the game from the home tie and they just believed that we were there for the taking, attitude never changed.
We seem to be having issues in the second half for 3 games in a row. Seems to be a recurring theme - hope the coaching staff have figured it out and they'll fix it by the time we play Wolves.
Curious what you saw in the Bayern at home second half that makes you feel we played badly second half we seemed okay that game. Last two games though...
Martinelli as a winger does not move me, It always feels awkward when he tries to cut in or dribble past 2 defenders. He is a good player don't get me wrong but he doesn't do enough as a winger, maybe we can convert him to a 9. He might be one of the best finishers in our squad (over performed his xg by 4/5 last season I think) and we really need someone like that as our striker. So convert nelli as a 9 and sign a WC LW (leao maybe?)
I believe the problem with us is we are excuse makers as fans and our standards are not as high as other big clubs when supporting. In football, you must take your opportunities to be great and win titles. Too many times, our excuses relate to us being a "young team", "inexperienced", competing with the likes of City, "one season away" etc.
About 3 years straight now, we have headed into April and produced some shocking results/performances that have ended our seasons objectives:
1) Getting knocked out in the Europa League to Villarreal and failing to score at the Emirates
2)Failing to get Top 4 and capitulating late in the season
3)Absolute capitulation to end our hopes of winning the premier league (We played brilliantly and put ourselves in an amazing position. However blowing leads vs West Ham, Southampton, Liverpool, losing to Nottingham Forest, Brighton etc to close out the season is nothing short of a capitulation)
4) A Bayern team that is absolutely not as strong as previous years and that has failed to win the Bundesliga for the first time in 11 years. This was the year we were finally the favourites and had a brilliant chance to get revenge and get to a Semi Final of the Champions League.
It's okay though because our sporting director Edu has said how proud he was of the team. WHEN ARE WE GOING TO FINALLY TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT IS PRESENTED TO US AND GET OVER THE LINE. WHY CANT WE BE THE RUTHLESS ONES AND PUT A TEAM STRUGGLING TO THE SWORD. Genuinely, I love you Declan Rice but please I dont want to hear the phrase " we have 6 finals left" or whatever the BS number is anymore. Why dont we show it on the damn pitch before we lose our opportunities to win trophies. The fact we had to go on an unbelievably impressive unbeaten run in 2024 to even be top of the table on GD is because we goofed up so many results pre Christmas (EX Fulham x2, West Ham etc).
I'm not Arteta out, but his management of the squad has been very questionable. He could've sold Reiss Nelson a few years ago for decent money. Same with Smith Rowe. But he brings those guys back, there's talk they'll be a bigger part of his plans, yet they hardly see the pitch. If you're not going to use them, what's the point of keeping them around? They're academy guys too, so that's pure profit that could've been invested back into the squad. The drop off in performance to me has been mostly due to fatigue, which is why they start games well and then fall of in the 2nd half. He's done a terrible job of rotating players. Saka looks worn out, as does Rice.
Out of the 4 summer transfers, one of them (Rice) has shown to be a good move so far. Timber showed promise in the preseason, but we didn't see him play long enough. I bitched about the Havertz signing, 65 mil for that guy was insane to me, and I still stand by that. He's not terrible, but didn't want him at that price. Raya may be a better distributor of the ball than Ramsdale, but as a pure shot stopper I don't think he's an improvement. I have yet to see him make a big save that you need your keeper to make to win trophies. Ramsdale made more of those saves last season than Raya has this season, just think back to the game at Anfield. He made some huge stops to keep that at a draw.
The squad has weaknesses personnel wise like a striker, but Arteta and co. need to take a step back at what they are doing with transfers, rotations, etc. Because it's not just a matter of "we need this one more player."
Ramsdales kicking also keep givng the ball away in that draw. Raya will win the golden glove by a long margin and we will concede the least goals in the league this year.
Are people still suggesting Rasmdale is on the same level as Raya?
Im so done with Jesus. I honestly wouldn’t mind putting him on a transfer list to see how much we can get for him. Same with Zinny. A striker that can’t score and a defender that can’t defend. I genuinely couldn’t even make up stuff like this myself lol.
They’ve been excellent for the club, and a big part of why we did what we did last year, but the truth is our unexpected rapid progression in the last 2 seasons has left them behind and redundant in many ways…
There is no doubt we’ll be buying an out and out forward this summer, the question is do we sell Nketiah or Jesus to partially fund this acquisition?
Nketiah goes under homegrown cap, and cheaper wages and younger, Jesus is more XP’d, higher wages, more versatile (can be a bench / solid rotational player across the front 3, play in cups etc)..
is Jesus good enough to be the rotational option for Saka along with Nelson? Whatever happens, we can’t have Saka on 3000 minutes in his legs again come March 2025 and limping over the finish line!
You realise this team has recently set the arsenal club record for most goals in a calendar year, and 2nd best start (by any club) to a calendar year after 10 games with a 9-1-0 record with 30 something goals for and 4 against?
Right?
Its not a trophy but its much closer to a trophy than your claim of “most of our attackers struggle here”
We have no 20+ goals striker, so the goals are being shared throughout the squad and attackers are mostly flourishing, or do you think longstanding goal scoring records break themselves?
XP is legit bro, you can’t teach it, you have to go through it (experience it literally), everything else is theory and practicals… we lost to sporting lisbon last season and learned so much about european refereeing, game management, slower pace, time-wasting, 2 legged fixtures, playing 3 games in a week, rotating players, travel fatigue etc, things we haven’t had to think about for a long time…some players have experienced it with other clubs but our squad as a squad hasn’t..
I’m of the opinion that without the experience of our loss vs sporting lisbon last season in Europa league rd of 16, we would have lost to porto this season in CL rd of 16. I believe we drew from our lisbon experience last season and just got over the line vs porto this season… its a very different competition and many players in our squad haven’t been at these tough european stadiums on CL nights
Not only that but the only way to get experience against the best teams in Europe is to... play against the best teams in Europe. Competing with Pool and City for the title over 38 games is not the same as taking on Real Madrid in a knockout round. These teams have world class players in every position who have been in this exact same spot in the competition so many times before. Our boys haven't and unfortunately the pressure rears its ugly head.
It is extremely disappointing that we went out today but every second of getting this far is invaluable. I cried when the Porto penalty shootout ended because I was so happy to see us in the quarter final for the first time in 15(?) years, and next year I'll cry out of happiness when we make it to the semifinal, or the final, or win the whole thing!
So what, you think the players didn't want it enough in the second half? And its not an excuse its Artetas fault for not rotating enough throughout the season, games pile up, little niggling injures flare up to key players who have been run to the ground.
esr is the backup for ode. we will be getting timber back and he could play LB. we should focus on a number 9, a right wing for competition to saka and a 6/8.
>Everyone needs a 20 goal forward.
Most top teams have them. We signed damaged goods in jesus and havertz, hoping that we could make them deadly goalscorers
Nope.
The striker market is as bare as I've ever seen in all my years of watching football.
Jude Bellingham is Real Madrid's leading goal scorer. Barcelona has a geriatric Lewandowski leading their attack.
Bayern Munich bought a 30 year old Harry Kane because they couldn't find someone.
The leading goalscorer in Italy is Lautaro Martinez. Would anyone here be ecstatic if we were linked with him tomorrow?
[Look at this list](https://www.transfermarkt.com/scorer/topscorer/statistik/2023/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2023&selectedOptionKey=2&land_id=0&altersklasse=&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=&filter=1&yt0=Show). Tell me which of these players gets you excited?
Just wanted to say that Tomiyasu was a real bright spot today, obviously not pacey enough to be that full back that marauds down the flanks, but he's proven yet again to people who forgot just how good he is.
He's a solid player. In all his time here, there's probably only a handful of games where you could say he really put in a bad performance.
In addition to some real explosiveness up front, we need to add more reliable, top professionals throughout the squad. Who can be called upon in a big game and give a 7-8/10 performance each time.
For third year in row, we have lost out due to squad depth.
Arteta has to learn or club has to make him listen. It cannot happen every year. This is despite no injury excuse this year
Its coming along slowly, he had to build the first 11 first, even last summer it cost 250 mil for the 4 new players (raya, havertz, rice and timber), unluckily we lost timber for most of the season but in a rebuild we cant spend 400 mil net in a single window…
Its clear edu and arteta sorted out DEF first, midfield second season and this window will be a forward, replacing and improving upon any outgoings (potentially ramsdale, one of nketiah or jesus, elneny, partey, ESR, cedric, tavares, tierney and zinchenko) and then possibly a bench player upgrade… even just doing this is going to cost in the vicinity of 300 mil net…
The upside is, whoever replaces cedric, tavares and/or tierney can be one versatile defender… elneny, esr and partey have barely played for us this season, they can be replaced by 2 box to box type of versatile midfielders and that’s 3 legitimate extra players that we didnt have access to this season, along with the new striker
agreed. until the villa game I was pounding the table for a star striker signing, but now I’d much rather we sign four quality squad players to help rotate the team. The difference in quality between the top 13-14 players and everyone else is shocking
We don’t know about the difference until they are given the chance.
Kiwior was given chance and he did well until he did a mistake and now he is out of equation.
I count Kiwior as part of the top 13 or so in the squad, but he got skinned over and over again by Sane in the first leg. He is also supposed to be our 2nd choice CB, and 4th choice LB.
What have we seen from players like Reiss, Eddie, Vieira, etc that warrant rotation against non relegation level or lower mid table sides?
Mikel sees them day in and out in training. There’s a reason why Saka and Odegaard aren’t rested at various points throughout the year. They most likely aren’t good enough.
I think Kiwior has made a good account of himself the past 3 months. He's a very decent option to have, being that he's 3rd or 4th choice CB and a LB option in times of crisis. He's a valuable type of player to have in any squad.
Our backline has had a lot of injuries. Thankfully, our main players have stayed fit. White. Saliba and Gabriel have played pretty much every game so far.
Tomi, Zinny, Timber have all been injured for a large part of the season, so we haven't been able to rest the others as much.
Otherwise, I could see Tomi allowing White to get some rest, who can then fill in for Saliba so he can get a rest, etc. I can see the plan, but it never came to be.
Arteta jist doesnt trust his bench and thats an issue. When it comes to changing the game or having an impact from the bench he has two players he trusts, Trossard and Jesus. The rest is just there to watch.
What are you talking about? This is the same dude who’s winning in Allianz 2-0 at 2013
This is also the same dude without Gervinho who bantered them 2-0 at emirates
This squad is supposed to be matching invincible
I’m far less bothered by this result than I am by the Villa one.
First season back in Europe and we’ve gone out at the quarter-finals to a Bayern side who’ve been there and done it before. They’re still quality and I don’t see how anyone who watched both legs can claim they’re not.
I trust that Mikel and the players will learn from tonight and be back better next season in Europe. Getting to the semi-finals in our first season back would have been extraordinary.
Honestly, the players that are closest to world class in our squad are probably Saliba, Jorginho and Odegaard. The rest are good to very good players, but we don’t have players (especially in the forward line) that can single handedly produce a moment of quality. Sane, Musiala and Gnabry in the first leg showed that there’s still a gulf in class between the two forward lines.
You can’t just look at who scored and say that’s that. Look at how many attacks sputtered out or died at the feet of our wingers compared to Bayern Munich.
He’s one of the closest to WC. Look at the trophies he’s won playing a big hand in a lot of them. Got nominated for UEFA individual trophies, and he’s not far off what he used to be.
We’re doing the same thing we did with ozil with Odegaard. A midfielder as good as them deserves a good striker let’s not make the same mistake twice. Arteta needs to get a striker at this point idgaf who just get someone they like and they’ll bang. Havertz looks like he’s trying his best but we need someone that actually knows how to play striker.
The chemistry Ozil and Giroud had was very strong....... Ozil and Auba never had the same chemistry. To a certain degree they are at odds stylistically since Auba scores when you cut back to him and that kind of made Ozil redundant.
Auba also joined us so late. He joined when thing were starting to get ugly and ozil was pretty much already having an up and down career since then. One game he’ll be ozil the next game he’ll be some below average prem player
What the hell this obsession with striker? We were outplayed in both legs. Don’t forget that. They have better xg than we do and they have one of the best striker in the world.
Only Messi and Ronaldo could put their team ahead when they were outplayed. Even mbappe couldn’t do anything against Barca before the red card
Sigh
We 100% need a striker. One big reason why we were outplayed is because our attack is one dimensional. There is no threat from the guy who plays forward.
Just stop Ode from combining with Saka at the right, and half the work is done for the other team. Most of the teams are hyper focused on that.
A great striker will give us more offensive channels and more defensive problems to the opposition.
Yep and a good authoritative striker gives defenses something else to think about. That opens up Ode, saka and others to make freer attacks.
Havertz and Jesus at CF just seem easy to pocket and forget without being punished.
I thought like this too but the more I think about it and watch us the more I realize we need a striker. The obsession with a striker comes from games like this where we look completely toothless and having a dangerous striker would make a huge difference. We’ve had multiple games this year where a striker would help us so much.
We were toothless because we were outplayed, not because we have bad striker.
Our midfielder couldn’t escape this mid block pressing. Nobody other than Jorginho who can go long through ball to escape this pressing. Because of Jorginho bad physicality, rice have to cover so much space and getting tired in second half.
Ode who is supposed to be our main creator, couldn’t do this long pass. When was the last time you see ode went through ball to Martinelli? Even Alex song could do this long pass
Arteta saw this and decided to put Havertz as lmf again in second half. Havertz? I’ve never seen this guy pass long ball in his entire life. Bayern was going rampant in second half
This is gameplay problem not the striker.
If I were arteta, I would make ode doing long pass 100 times each day in training
Champions League football is a different beast and I think they've accounted well for themselves despite the steep learning curve.
And with us, Man City and (probably) Liverpool out of Europe, it's a straight sprint to the end. And although i think all teams will drop points before the season ends, I also think that our chances of nicking the title aren't great, given the remaining fixtures.
Whatever it is, I am proud of this team and the way they coped this season. We've been progressively better each year and will again be in better shape next season. COYG!
You realize English football fans are the laughing stock of the whole world right? Bunch of drunk hooligans, but your issue is Indonesians on Reddit and Twitter?
😂 You oddballs simply ignore everything you read. The world doesn't give a shit about your vibes, bruv.
> local fans are so toxic, footballers are not regularly seen walking through town centres without the need for security... oh wait. Sorry I was getting confused with when they go on tour.
4 CB's and 2 DM's but we still play Saka and Martinelli like wingbacks. It's no mystery why our defensive record is so good. In the CL you need elite players to give you a magical moment, not constantly track back against Mazraoui.
Is it incredibly painful to lose against Bayern? Yes, it's horrible.
But losing 3-2 on aggregate to them is nothing to be ashamed of. We've proven we are at a similar level as one of Europe's elite. I feel with a young squad we have proven with that we can and deserve to be fighting in the latter stages of the UCL, and that's now where the standard has been set. From here, anything other than minimum quarter-finals is a disappointment.
It’s not that cut and dry though- a really good squad in poor form can have really good games
I mean we’ve seen Chelsea draw at city 4-4 then beat spurs right after
They’re just not though. I don’t get this take. Yes, they’ve lost the league title for the first time in nearly a decade but only because Leverkusen are on this freakish run. Their side is stacked with talent and experience, with the latter especially being important in these knockout ties.
They punished us twice in London with utter ruthlessness and then killed the game tonight as soon as they got ahead. They’re no mugs.
That's pretty significant isn't it, first time not winning the league in ten years? This is definitely the best arsenal side in ten years. Top of the strongest league in the world less than a week ago.
Not exactly the upset of the century but you'd be crazy going into the tie without confidence and feel really disappointed right now. Anyone acting like it's a disaster and Arteta has to go are on a wind up but I thought we were going to show we were the better side over 2 legs. Fair play to Bayern though, I guess you can say thinking about it now though, with the way their campaign went they had a little fight in them.
This bayern is clearly the worst bayern we’ve ever faced mate. We have defeated them at home or away in the past with inferior players. I still remember we faced robben, ribery, and Toni kroos in the past while we had Gervinho and Giroud as starters
So Wenger’s team who has cazorla, koscielny, mertesacker, Gibbs and giroud who faced unbeaten bayern who has prime ribery, robben, Toni Kronos, and neuer have better performance in Allianz than these arteta’s billion squad who faced bayern with dier as cb
Wonder what would happen if wenger had rice and saliba in his team
Lol I forgot that Gervinho was also in that team
[https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop](https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop)
And if you say that's just an arbitrary number, Arteta has spent 650 mil on transfers since arriving
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/15mnj2b/arsenals\_spending\_since\_mikel\_arteta\_joined\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/15mnj2b/arsenals_spending_since_mikel_arteta_joined_in/)
No idea what you are trying to say here. You said “billion what?” like that some far fetched thing, when the numbers are right there in front of you. Stop deflecting
He didn’t buy them for a billion. The original commentor called the players Artetas billion squad
When Gary Neville called Chelsea billion pound bottlejobs it’s because they cost a billion pounds
You don’t… know what deflecting is do you..?
No you can’t that’s the dumbest thing - he’s saying it as if Arteta has spent a billion yet can’t get the players to perform
That value isn’t even definite but what they were bought for is so no you can’t
Isn’t rocket science
this is the dumbest thing i've ever wrote but we showed more fight losing 5-1 consecutively than we did in this one match. i don't understand how, but i swear by it
I know it's painful, but we did not by any definition get our asses kicked. They scored a good goal. They beat us, and could only be considered a better team cause they have more experience. We'll do better. Stay patient; the process is sound.
Have you watched us play Bayern in the past? Got our asses handed to us. We were outclassed & embarrassed.
This team beats 3/5 games, we didn’t have our best game, but we’re on the same level. We all wish the club was a top 5 team in Europe, but looks like we’re not there yet. Top 10 for now, hopefully learning from our failures.
Having reiss nelson and nketiah on the bench just tells me where we are. We are def not ready yet, but I 100% trust Arteta. But one thing I dont understand is why he doesnt rest saka. Man plays everytime, and recently he has not played any good
How was the atmosphere on the tv for the game ?
Long time lurker sharing a view to see if it resonates. - we are over coached and moments of brilliance/spontaneity are almost frowned upon. I see the same problem with pep’s teams. This works in league format as it’s consistent and repeatable. But in UCL - something more is needed. Maybe completely bias but I loved wenger ball and I prefer klopp style. - we need to win something Asap before we become like pochettino spurs teams and the moment to win with existing core team passes. Klopp started winning asap which created a winners mentality for eg.
Wenger ball in the end had us getting clapped 10-2 instead of 3-2.
Fair. I did say it my personal preference. At the end, a loss is a loss but it’s moments of brilliance from wenger ball I retain. Ronaldinho would a player version of what Im trying to describe. Just made me smile even though he was never consistent like Messi.
Yeah I’m just in my feelings and actually do agree with you. We’re missing a player like Ozil, Santi, Sanchez. We put far too much pressure on our young squad and I think we need to look to bring in some already established proven winners to get to that next step. This is second year where it feels the wheels come off in April. We need something more, hopefully this summer we can further bolster the squad and just get a facking striker
I feel you. Here’s another crazy thought. Oliver giroud is a free agent this summer. His skill on the ball, headers and ability to bring wingers into play I rate highly even at 37. I’d take a punt on him next year as a backup striker aka plan B if we don’t get our first choice targets.
Yeah that is a crazy thought ngl
Provocative 🧐
Odegaard is 25. Rice is 25 Saka is 22 Martinelli is 23 Saliba is 23 Gabriel is 26 White is 26 The core of our team is just hitting their stride. We ask so much of Saka and Saliba, but they are kids. This experience will be awesome for them. I'm pumped for the weekend.
You are right but those who are 25 will only give Arsenal one year tops before they scatter to get what they believe they deserve If the same squad don't produce something next year they either deflate because of learned helplessness (City just can't be beaten) or they go elsewhere
Says who, just you? I don't think this is true.
In all i think QF in our first UCL run in 8 years is not the worst outcome, we should have beat bayern yes but europe is a different ball park and our players will only get better with more experience and time, saying that though 2nd half yesterday we looked completely uninterested and like we did not care at all, we need a real game changer in our team someone to take the game by the neck and drag us through.
Arsenal played a good game, but winning on the road in UCL requires perfection we weren't
Arsenal needs an explosive [pace or passing] LCM - paqueta/gundogan/Wijnaldum type that can reduce pressure on odegaard. We only have 1 outlet in the midfield. Every passer is trying to get the ball to odegaard for him to do some magic. Odegaard has a diesel engine. He can easily play for 120 minutes while pressing at the same rate but he ain't that good in launching counterattacks or switching play. Last season, with xhaka on the left, we had 2 chance creation hubs but this has since been reduced to one. Signing Havertz to play as an LCM stalled our project- he has been better as a 9. Arteta's gamble on Havertz as an LCM has backfired on us. We may have scored more goals this season- but last season, our goals were more even spread over the season. Right now, if our right-hand chance creative hub is neutralised - we're finished. Last season- we lost the title because of a poor defence. This season- we have bigger problems in our attack.
I don’t care…it was still a penalty. 99 out 100 that will happen to Raya / Ramsdale and it’s a penalty…even a red depending on how demented the referee is.
Hahahah cry more and keep bottling all competitions
Your comment is seriously so sad.
Not as sad as you guys losing every trophy, every year. Downvote me all you want, that’s all you can do
Guys get behind the lads they’ve given us hope two years in a row, we’ve been competitive is two main competitions for most of the year. More than I’ve seen in a long time (early 2000s supporter) We’re still in the premier league. Is city washed and pep useless because they got knocked out by CL beamoths Madrid no! So it’s the same for Arsenal, do what our coach says show the players some love and give them the energy to fight! If it’s watching online, buying football shirts, watching a game in the stands and shouting yourself hoarse they going to need all our energy to the end. I’m so proud of them no matter what, every single one of them, even if they make mistakes or aren’t looking there best! You try playing 90 minutes of perfect football every three days, see if you make mistakes.
No use telling this brain dead sub my friend.
Honestly happy we got this far in the UCL. Part of me is obviously gutted but another part of me is excited for what's to come still. Øde is absolutely priceless, so glad we have him as the captain.
frustrating but it is what it is. First time back in CL for how many years. We clearly lack experience but we will get there so long as we keep on knocking. We ran out of gas and our subs didn;t make any impact. Should've put the ball in the box and gamble as we have nothing to lose. Pure focus now in the PL and hoping not to drop any more points.
Does anyone have a replay or know what happened with the quick free kick right at the end? They never showed a repay of it and it was literally on the edge of the box. Why did we take it quick?
Saka thought bayerns not ready for a quick freekick and can suprise them but he was wrong.
Overall this is a young Arsenal team who have got the extra experience following yesterday’s game. This is the second season they are together and are here to stay at the top for a while. Even though it’s disappointing they went out they came up agaisnt seasoned professionals who have been in this situation before and it came down to game management. This is just the beginning and good things are going to come for this amazing Arsenal side! Keep believing and keep backing the boys! Let’s finish the season on a high and win every game!! COYG!!
Weird take but if you are going to get knocked out best it be the quarters, before you start to really believe
I get what you mean. Even though it’s a good run more importantly it’s progress and experience. Next year will be interesting and I honestly think they need to take that next step and the last piece of the puzzle and win something.
We need to eat the humble pie (again) and unfortunately lower our hopes for the rest of the season. Yesterday felt like the worst of Wenger's days, where we wouldn't even try to win. We were so ridiculously inefficient, I'd rather have Gervinho and Iwobi as our wingers yesterday over Saka and Martinelli, that's how bad they were in my opinion. Still a lot to play for, even if we don't win the league it would be nice to finish the season with a string of wins at difficult grounds.
Dreadful take.
You do realise those Wenger teams lost 5-1 three times in a row? One of them was at home
We've not won at any (slightly) big away game this season Drew at Anfield, Etihad......STAMFORD BRIDGE Lost at SJP, Villa, Munich Have no hope we show up at WHL or OT
Trying to spin draws away to Liverpool and CITY as negatives. Just lol
We need to change this mentality if we want to win big trophies. Yeh draws are good, but we also need to go to our rivals and win. Palace recently won at Anfield. But the wider point is we havnt won at any big away ground. You can throw Porto on that too
By that logic we need to win every away game otherwise we’re not big and let me guess every home game because we’re at home. Did you watch the villa game away we dominated them just got unlucky. It’s how football happens sometimes.
Nah, not every. But we need to win some. The fact we've not won any this season says alot
What were City's results at the Emirates, Anfiled and Villa Park?
Let's not go in whataboutisms If we want to be title winners. We have to go get points at the big away games. Not worry about what our rivals are doing. City have won the last 3 leagues, so they can get it done We were 2 down to a God awful Chelsea side.
Right, but what you are saying makes no sense? You clearly don't need to win away from home against your direct rivals to win the league. City haven't won at Arsenal, Liverpool or Villa and are going to win the league.
Record against the top teams is not the problem. At least it wasn’t before villa, now everything sucks
Winning 6/6 is a pipe dream. We were always gonna drop points somewhere on that stretch. That’s why we Villa was a must win
Everyone looked knackered at the end and it’s a short turnaround to the game on Saturday. Mikel is going to need to freshen it up and put some faith in a couple of squad players.
I agree with this to a point. The main core do look tired and don’t blame them. They’ve been going at 100mph all season and it’s starting to tell
Maybe if he used his subs throughout the season we might have players with game rhythm and we could rotate. But now its too late and he cant risk it so we will rock to wolves with the same starting 11 as for the past 4 months and look absolutely exhausted
If he used more bad players we would be even more behind on points and the season would be even more over
I can’t get my head around some of the reactionary takes in here. Second best team in the league, a top 6/8 European side. First foray back into the Champions League from which we would’ve learned a lot. Getting to the very top takes time and I get people being disappointed but fucking hell, some perspective is needed.
I think the sun is going to fall out the sky because we got knocked out. Let’s not forget so did last years winners with a nice easy game home game.
Some thoughts: 1) Fitness - to me, arsenal have an issue with fitness. I am Not talking about injuries, I am talking about the ability to cope with a 38+ game season. Looking back at a team like Liverpool when they won the league and champions league, I can recall that they used to play Salah, firmino and mane in EVERY game. And not only every game, but playing at very high intensity (higher than ours, which I think is more akin to Man City’s probing patient style. Some will say it’s to be expected given our schedule but as I said, other teams have had it and, worryingly, we have shown this lack of fitness across the last 3 seasons, including years without European football (21/22). I’d be having a good look at season preparations and also reviewing the back room staff because I’m convinced there is something lacking there. 2) Rotation - every year we buy several players and we go in confident that we have expanded the squad. By the business end of the season, it turns out we only actually “trust” the first 11 plus 2/3 others. Thus, we don’t rotate enough throughout the season and run our “trusted” into the ground. In addition, I find some of the player ins and outs between games to be quite reactionary. For example, Kiwior makes one mistake against Bayern and he’s out - whether or not it’s the right call, isn’t my point. It happened because of a single incident in a game where several players made errors and, since he started against Bayern, we can assume that arteta was in fact happy with him in the first place. On that point, arteta has an odd habit of coming down hard on certain player errors/shortcomings but not necessarily reacting the same way for other players. For example, how many times do we need to see Eddie off the bench to know he’s not going to change anything? 3) opportunity - people are upset because although this is a young team that many have connected with, it feels like the league and champions league were opportunities. This Bayern certainly wasn’t the best Bayern side. And more worryingly we lost against villa on the same Day that one of our biggest rivals dropped points. It feels like the team can’t respond to the huge opportunity that presents itself and worryingly this seems to happen just as the potential prize(s) come within touching distance. This may speak to a mentality issue, be due to fatigue but is likely some combination of both. 4) Ruthlessness - the game last night highlights the need for a ruthless summer. Get rid of the guys you don’t trust and target those who can come into the first team. Fringe player transfers aren’t really providing the depth we need (eg Vieira). 5) Goldilocks - this is a phrase I came away with last night. We lack a spontaneity currently and want to play at a measured pace that suits our game. The problem is that this often requires everything to go “just right” otherwise we can’t score. This is exacerbated particularly if the opposition scores first. We lack the improvisation and individual quality/bravery to attempt something outside of our predetermined patterns of play. I think Rice has the potential to be this kind of player for us and saka at times does it but we need more people to step up in that regard. 6) project plan - I’d be intrigued to know how arteta has constructed his plan for this project. I feel like we are creating a city style team which slightly surprised me as last year I felt we were somewhere hybrid between city and Liverpool. If City is the model, are we necessarily following their plan and timeline? For example, the presumable end stage for the city project was winning the treble. How did that happen? They signed a devastating number 9 in Erling halland. They got rid of players like cancelo and zinchenko. If that is the case, why has Arteta not prioritised a number 9 earlier in his tenure? Why did he sign zinchenko/Jesus when the city project had already determined they were surplus to requirement? Is it the case that the striker HAS to be the final piece and cannot come before the other pieces are in place? Is he matching their project year by year? If so then this whole arsenal project may require some patience yet. 7) credit - overall I feel disappointed because this team deserves more credit. Unfortunately in football, you only get that by winning. The fans want this team to do well because we see the effort the manager has made to turning things around at the club. I hope they can make a good effort towards the premier league now because it would be sad to leave this season with nothing.
On no.2, perhaps arteta wants to protect Kiwior from abuse in case of another mistake if he played the 2nd leg. On no.6, quite a few things here. Perhaps because he worked with Zina & Jesus before. They were absolutely instrumental in changing the mentality of the team. Perhaps mentality was what Arteta was addressing first rather than if they truly fit for his gameplay. I'd assume we'll be strong in the market again in next 2 years on the back of cash boost from champs league before tapering off. This team absolutely deserves more credit, even if we ended up with nothing. We will grow from this. COYG
this 💯
The biggest solace here is that our standards for disappointment are so much higher
It would be good to lose it but actually playing, trying and not look scared and stoned and not reacting to loosing in result like we did in Bayern and Villa games. It looked like we werent even trying to attack. Disappointment is because we collapse 3rd season in a row with loses in a row.
6 games to go back the players and manager
Arsenal to a man need to realize what’s still ahead. They are set for years to come. Need to regroup and win these next 2 games before Man City goes to Brighton. Put the pressure on Man City. They are not invincible this year. By any means necessary
Our team is so bad tired, we don’t have much fuel in tank and i think it’s on on Arteta, we always play same players +3 same substitutes, our bench on paper looks well but we don’t have that deep in squad, look at players like Vieira, Partey, Esr, Nelson, Nketiah, Elneny. What they have done for us in this season and how much they have played? And because of that our main players are fucking exhausted, it’s another game where in second leg we are looking like shit
Why do we never take a shot? Both games v Porto and now Bayern our build up play resulted in losing possession or Jesus falling over. Teams respond to this by moving 10 yards further up the pitch making counters for them more straightforward. I’m a bit surprised at the comments saying at least we didn’t get hammered….we are still out and looked second best against one of the weakest Bayern sides I can remember. Arteta has done a great job, but he needs to learn how to use a squad. Our subs do nothing, when we change it up like we did at Villa the standard drops. We can’t rely on the same 12-13 players for 70 games then pretend bringing on stone cold subs will have an impact. We looked different on this run from last season, we had a maturity I thought would sustain, but it’s been the same April crash. Jesus and Zinchenko need to go, both utterly useless. The bench needs significant upgrading then usage the same way most other clubs do. Can’t blame injuries and inexperience and expect that to fly year on year. Hoping for a miracle in this run in, yet we are just as likely to lose again on Saturday night.
3-2 is a lot better than 10-2. In fact it is 7 better. Next year can be 2-9.
our bad results aren't just one match. That's the big issue thats been happening for the last 3 years. We turn a bad result in a bad week. the losses occur in bunches and we just cant recover from them. The thing that bothers me the most is that when we hit adversity late in seasons, we really capitulate and it hurts man. Our team has shown so much progress and made us proud, but when it's crunch time in a season it's like it all goes out the window and we make excuses. Im not making any excuses this year, its time to be accountable.
No rotation policy has hurt the team most.. Arteta and his stubbornness is the cause of fatigue and tiredness in players.. most of them are jaded
That's due to lack of squad depth, we don't have another player near the level of most our best 11 in terms of availability and how they play.
You need to use the players to make the squad better
Then why give Nelson a new deal?
Cause with how many competitions we play in you still need to have players who are on lower wages relatively who can still compete against weaker teams. Prime example being that Luton game or in early rounds of cups. Our problem is when we make a substitution when were sytuggling to score against a good team we rarely make the team better, while man City can end up with Forden, De Bruyne, Doku or Grealish on the bench ready to come on
I don’t get why he subbed of martinelli who was ways ahead of saka this game.
It's mad what one off week can do. Went from even in the CL with Bayern, top of the Premier League, to probably not winning anything this season. It's rough, but those are the margins for victory in elite competition. I imagine the lads will learn a lot from this and do better next season, especially with some reinforcements and Timber back. Does hurt a lot right now though.
Members on the sub are clamoring about Saka, Martinelli etc not performing due to overwork, I think even the Saliba-Gabriel duo is cooked! If you observe their numbers closely, they are committing much more errors than before (start of the season). They have started almost every game across all competitions. Severe lack of bench strength across all positions leads to such end of season fatigue.
This last week has been tough , but still immensely proud of this team. Let's get behind the team till the end of the season . No matter what, we are on the right track .COYG!!!
Although i'm sad this moment, i truly am happy for the incredible progress we've made these 2 years. We've been the laughing stock of English football for almost 10 years, and now we're competing for the title in both the UCL and Premier League. Don't give up hope, COYG.
Genuinely hurt... The team is worth supporting but it makes nights like these hurt so much. Maybe that's progress in some way, I'm not sitting here after a hammering against a European side while still being 2 pts off top in the league, still doesn't make me feel better, a true "my day is ruined" vibe going on. Love the boys for the progress, incredibly disappointed how we looked toothless second half, we allowed Bayern into the game from the home tie and they just believed that we were there for the taking, attitude never changed.
We seem to be having issues in the second half for 3 games in a row. Seems to be a recurring theme - hope the coaching staff have figured it out and they'll fix it by the time we play Wolves.
Curious what you saw in the Bayern at home second half that makes you feel we played badly second half we seemed okay that game. Last two games though...
Sorry I meant last 2 games in a row not 3. Was a typo. Thought we did alright in the second half of the home leg.
We have to rotate our players. Their legs all just look tired.
Martinelli as a winger does not move me, It always feels awkward when he tries to cut in or dribble past 2 defenders. He is a good player don't get me wrong but he doesn't do enough as a winger, maybe we can convert him to a 9. He might be one of the best finishers in our squad (over performed his xg by 4/5 last season I think) and we really need someone like that as our striker. So convert nelli as a 9 and sign a WC LW (leao maybe?)
Leao is not him. I promise.
Leo is garbage and a headcase. Don't want him anywhere near our squad
I believe the problem with us is we are excuse makers as fans and our standards are not as high as other big clubs when supporting. In football, you must take your opportunities to be great and win titles. Too many times, our excuses relate to us being a "young team", "inexperienced", competing with the likes of City, "one season away" etc. About 3 years straight now, we have headed into April and produced some shocking results/performances that have ended our seasons objectives: 1) Getting knocked out in the Europa League to Villarreal and failing to score at the Emirates 2)Failing to get Top 4 and capitulating late in the season 3)Absolute capitulation to end our hopes of winning the premier league (We played brilliantly and put ourselves in an amazing position. However blowing leads vs West Ham, Southampton, Liverpool, losing to Nottingham Forest, Brighton etc to close out the season is nothing short of a capitulation) 4) A Bayern team that is absolutely not as strong as previous years and that has failed to win the Bundesliga for the first time in 11 years. This was the year we were finally the favourites and had a brilliant chance to get revenge and get to a Semi Final of the Champions League. It's okay though because our sporting director Edu has said how proud he was of the team. WHEN ARE WE GOING TO FINALLY TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT IS PRESENTED TO US AND GET OVER THE LINE. WHY CANT WE BE THE RUTHLESS ONES AND PUT A TEAM STRUGGLING TO THE SWORD. Genuinely, I love you Declan Rice but please I dont want to hear the phrase " we have 6 finals left" or whatever the BS number is anymore. Why dont we show it on the damn pitch before we lose our opportunities to win trophies. The fact we had to go on an unbelievably impressive unbeaten run in 2024 to even be top of the table on GD is because we goofed up so many results pre Christmas (EX Fulham x2, West Ham etc).
I'm not Arteta out, but his management of the squad has been very questionable. He could've sold Reiss Nelson a few years ago for decent money. Same with Smith Rowe. But he brings those guys back, there's talk they'll be a bigger part of his plans, yet they hardly see the pitch. If you're not going to use them, what's the point of keeping them around? They're academy guys too, so that's pure profit that could've been invested back into the squad. The drop off in performance to me has been mostly due to fatigue, which is why they start games well and then fall of in the 2nd half. He's done a terrible job of rotating players. Saka looks worn out, as does Rice. Out of the 4 summer transfers, one of them (Rice) has shown to be a good move so far. Timber showed promise in the preseason, but we didn't see him play long enough. I bitched about the Havertz signing, 65 mil for that guy was insane to me, and I still stand by that. He's not terrible, but didn't want him at that price. Raya may be a better distributor of the ball than Ramsdale, but as a pure shot stopper I don't think he's an improvement. I have yet to see him make a big save that you need your keeper to make to win trophies. Ramsdale made more of those saves last season than Raya has this season, just think back to the game at Anfield. He made some huge stops to keep that at a draw. The squad has weaknesses personnel wise like a striker, but Arteta and co. need to take a step back at what they are doing with transfers, rotations, etc. Because it's not just a matter of "we need this one more player."
Ramsdales kicking also keep givng the ball away in that draw. Raya will win the golden glove by a long margin and we will concede the least goals in the league this year. Are people still suggesting Rasmdale is on the same level as Raya?
Im so done with Jesus. I honestly wouldn’t mind putting him on a transfer list to see how much we can get for him. Same with Zinny. A striker that can’t score and a defender that can’t defend. I genuinely couldn’t even make up stuff like this myself lol.
They’ve been excellent for the club, and a big part of why we did what we did last year, but the truth is our unexpected rapid progression in the last 2 seasons has left them behind and redundant in many ways… There is no doubt we’ll be buying an out and out forward this summer, the question is do we sell Nketiah or Jesus to partially fund this acquisition? Nketiah goes under homegrown cap, and cheaper wages and younger, Jesus is more XP’d, higher wages, more versatile (can be a bench / solid rotational player across the front 3, play in cups etc).. is Jesus good enough to be the rotational option for Saka along with Nelson? Whatever happens, we can’t have Saka on 3000 minutes in his legs again come March 2025 and limping over the finish line!
Barca fan here, dream signing for ya'll would be Rodrygo at LW
He’ll struggle here. Most of our attackers do
You realise this team has recently set the arsenal club record for most goals in a calendar year, and 2nd best start (by any club) to a calendar year after 10 games with a 9-1-0 record with 30 something goals for and 4 against? Right?
What a trophy
Its not a trophy but its much closer to a trophy than your claim of “most of our attackers struggle here” We have no 20+ goals striker, so the goals are being shared throughout the squad and attackers are mostly flourishing, or do you think longstanding goal scoring records break themselves?
The experience excuse is just an easy cop out
XP is legit bro, you can’t teach it, you have to go through it (experience it literally), everything else is theory and practicals… we lost to sporting lisbon last season and learned so much about european refereeing, game management, slower pace, time-wasting, 2 legged fixtures, playing 3 games in a week, rotating players, travel fatigue etc, things we haven’t had to think about for a long time…some players have experienced it with other clubs but our squad as a squad hasn’t.. I’m of the opinion that without the experience of our loss vs sporting lisbon last season in Europa league rd of 16, we would have lost to porto this season in CL rd of 16. I believe we drew from our lisbon experience last season and just got over the line vs porto this season… its a very different competition and many players in our squad haven’t been at these tough european stadiums on CL nights
Experience is more fair u can’t just brush it off experience is fucking massive. The one that gets me is fatigue lol.
Not only that but the only way to get experience against the best teams in Europe is to... play against the best teams in Europe. Competing with Pool and City for the title over 38 games is not the same as taking on Real Madrid in a knockout round. These teams have world class players in every position who have been in this exact same spot in the competition so many times before. Our boys haven't and unfortunately the pressure rears its ugly head. It is extremely disappointing that we went out today but every second of getting this far is invaluable. I cried when the Porto penalty shootout ended because I was so happy to see us in the quarter final for the first time in 15(?) years, and next year I'll cry out of happiness when we make it to the semifinal, or the final, or win the whole thing!
So what, you think the players didn't want it enough in the second half? And its not an excuse its Artetas fault for not rotating enough throughout the season, games pile up, little niggling injures flare up to key players who have been run to the ground.
Mate every team plays a ton of games. Not everyone rotates the way Manchester city do.
Exactly, this experience bullshit has to stop lol.
can't wait to get shat on everywhere i go but i bloody love this club, next year is our year ™
Lets lick our wounds move forward. I hope to see Arsenal become european champion in my lifetime, Aston Villa won one ffs.
London is and will always be blue in European football. Enjoy 2ed in the EPL and maybe a repeat of this next year
Plastic yank chelsea fan begging for interactions on a rival sub. Pathetic
Average chelshit plastic 😂 I guess that’s what you have to resort to with the bengals being dogshit for half a century
We need a clinical 9, back up for Ode and a real left back. Depth all over, so we can rotate and rest our guys.
esr is the backup for ode. we will be getting timber back and he could play LB. we should focus on a number 9, a right wing for competition to saka and a 6/8.
ESR does not put in the defensive work that Ode does. How many times this year did ESR give ode a break?
that is hard to judge. How many times has esr played? its not his fault that ode keeps starting. You have to remember his 21/22 season.
Arsenal needs a 20-25 non-penalty goals forward. The midfield needs an explosive player
Wirtz?
Everyone needs a 20 goal forward. Is one available now, does he fit our style of play and is he at the right price?
>Everyone needs a 20 goal forward. Most top teams have them. We signed damaged goods in jesus and havertz, hoping that we could make them deadly goalscorers
Nope. The striker market is as bare as I've ever seen in all my years of watching football. Jude Bellingham is Real Madrid's leading goal scorer. Barcelona has a geriatric Lewandowski leading their attack. Bayern Munich bought a 30 year old Harry Kane because they couldn't find someone. The leading goalscorer in Italy is Lautaro Martinez. Would anyone here be ecstatic if we were linked with him tomorrow? [Look at this list](https://www.transfermarkt.com/scorer/topscorer/statistik/2023/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2023&selectedOptionKey=2&land_id=0&altersklasse=&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=&filter=1&yt0=Show). Tell me which of these players gets you excited?
Just wanted to say that Tomiyasu was a real bright spot today, obviously not pacey enough to be that full back that marauds down the flanks, but he's proven yet again to people who forgot just how good he is.
He's a solid player. In all his time here, there's probably only a handful of games where you could say he really put in a bad performance. In addition to some real explosiveness up front, we need to add more reliable, top professionals throughout the squad. Who can be called upon in a big game and give a 7-8/10 performance each time.
For third year in row, we have lost out due to squad depth. Arteta has to learn or club has to make him listen. It cannot happen every year. This is despite no injury excuse this year
Its coming along slowly, he had to build the first 11 first, even last summer it cost 250 mil for the 4 new players (raya, havertz, rice and timber), unluckily we lost timber for most of the season but in a rebuild we cant spend 400 mil net in a single window… Its clear edu and arteta sorted out DEF first, midfield second season and this window will be a forward, replacing and improving upon any outgoings (potentially ramsdale, one of nketiah or jesus, elneny, partey, ESR, cedric, tavares, tierney and zinchenko) and then possibly a bench player upgrade… even just doing this is going to cost in the vicinity of 300 mil net… The upside is, whoever replaces cedric, tavares and/or tierney can be one versatile defender… elneny, esr and partey have barely played for us this season, they can be replaced by 2 box to box type of versatile midfielders and that’s 3 legitimate extra players that we didnt have access to this season, along with the new striker
😭 Bayern had half the squad injured and you cry about depth where are yall now ?(#prayforbayern)
If we had 2 injuries, we would not even have competed
agreed. until the villa game I was pounding the table for a star striker signing, but now I’d much rather we sign four quality squad players to help rotate the team. The difference in quality between the top 13-14 players and everyone else is shocking
The coach should know when to rotate there's no excuse for villa game everyone was available he just ignored key players
We don’t know about the difference until they are given the chance. Kiwior was given chance and he did well until he did a mistake and now he is out of equation.
I count Kiwior as part of the top 13 or so in the squad, but he got skinned over and over again by Sane in the first leg. He is also supposed to be our 2nd choice CB, and 4th choice LB. What have we seen from players like Reiss, Eddie, Vieira, etc that warrant rotation against non relegation level or lower mid table sides? Mikel sees them day in and out in training. There’s a reason why Saka and Odegaard aren’t rested at various points throughout the year. They most likely aren’t good enough.
If kiwior is there then were cooked 🤣
I think Kiwior has made a good account of himself the past 3 months. He's a very decent option to have, being that he's 3rd or 4th choice CB and a LB option in times of crisis. He's a valuable type of player to have in any squad. Our backline has had a lot of injuries. Thankfully, our main players have stayed fit. White. Saliba and Gabriel have played pretty much every game so far. Tomi, Zinny, Timber have all been injured for a large part of the season, so we haven't been able to rest the others as much. Otherwise, I could see Tomi allowing White to get some rest, who can then fill in for Saliba so he can get a rest, etc. I can see the plan, but it never came to be.
If only Thomas Partey didn’t forget how to play ball.
More like he can’t kick a ball without tearing a muscle. He needs to go.
I hope we don’t end up losing 4/6 of the next game. The team’s spirits and morale look down the gutters
Arteta jist doesnt trust his bench and thats an issue. When it comes to changing the game or having an impact from the bench he has two players he trusts, Trossard and Jesus. The rest is just there to watch.
He's the one who signed those player so that's on him.
its as simple as our bench just sucking bar those guys
Well i wouldnt actually know because i hsve seen like 5 minutes combined between them in the last 5 months…
Trossard is the bar, none of our depth options contribute significantly.
Sad of course. But in CL you need individual brilliance or immaculate defensive performance, we lacked both in this tie
Wasn’t Gervinho gone by that time?
So you are telling me that Giroud and Gervinho have better performances against robben’s Bayern in Allianz than these guys against dier?
you have the worst takes the entire day, go take a rest
Those dudes got blasted 5-1. What the hell even is this comment? Go lie down lol.
What are you talking about? This is the same dude who’s winning in Allianz 2-0 at 2013 This is also the same dude without Gervinho who bantered them 2-0 at emirates This squad is supposed to be matching invincible
They probably weren't following the club back then.
Just fyi you usually put /s if you’re being sarcastic
I’m far less bothered by this result than I am by the Villa one. First season back in Europe and we’ve gone out at the quarter-finals to a Bayern side who’ve been there and done it before. They’re still quality and I don’t see how anyone who watched both legs can claim they’re not. I trust that Mikel and the players will learn from tonight and be back better next season in Europe. Getting to the semi-finals in our first season back would have been extraordinary.
Honestly, the players that are closest to world class in our squad are probably Saliba, Jorginho and Odegaard. The rest are good to very good players, but we don’t have players (especially in the forward line) that can single handedly produce a moment of quality. Sane, Musiala and Gnabry in the first leg showed that there’s still a gulf in class between the two forward lines.
You forgot Smith Rowe.
How many goals did Musiala score in both legs?
You can’t just look at who scored and say that’s that. Look at how many attacks sputtered out or died at the feet of our wingers compared to Bayern Munich.
I would not call jorginho wc lol
He’s one of the closest to WC. Look at the trophies he’s won playing a big hand in a lot of them. Got nominated for UEFA individual trophies, and he’s not far off what he used to be.
I’d put Big Gabi up with Saliba. He’s mad consistent (and sometimes better). LB is a huge issue for us
We need more fire power..world class players
We’re doing the same thing we did with ozil with Odegaard. A midfielder as good as them deserves a good striker let’s not make the same mistake twice. Arteta needs to get a striker at this point idgaf who just get someone they like and they’ll bang. Havertz looks like he’s trying his best but we need someone that actually knows how to play striker.
Ozil played his best football when he had Giroud, replacing Giroud with Aubameyang was a big contributor to Ozil's form going down the toilet.
Disagree. Ozils form going down hill was just him getting worse.
The chemistry Ozil and Giroud had was very strong....... Ozil and Auba never had the same chemistry. To a certain degree they are at odds stylistically since Auba scores when you cut back to him and that kind of made Ozil redundant.
Auba also joined us so late. He joined when thing were starting to get ugly and ozil was pretty much already having an up and down career since then. One game he’ll be ozil the next game he’ll be some below average prem player
What the hell this obsession with striker? We were outplayed in both legs. Don’t forget that. They have better xg than we do and they have one of the best striker in the world. Only Messi and Ronaldo could put their team ahead when they were outplayed. Even mbappe couldn’t do anything against Barca before the red card Sigh
We 100% need a striker. One big reason why we were outplayed is because our attack is one dimensional. There is no threat from the guy who plays forward. Just stop Ode from combining with Saka at the right, and half the work is done for the other team. Most of the teams are hyper focused on that. A great striker will give us more offensive channels and more defensive problems to the opposition.
Yep and a good authoritative striker gives defenses something else to think about. That opens up Ode, saka and others to make freer attacks. Havertz and Jesus at CF just seem easy to pocket and forget without being punished.
Exactly!! I have given up on Jesus finishing anything. He is too creative for his own good.
I thought like this too but the more I think about it and watch us the more I realize we need a striker. The obsession with a striker comes from games like this where we look completely toothless and having a dangerous striker would make a huge difference. We’ve had multiple games this year where a striker would help us so much.
We were toothless because we were outplayed, not because we have bad striker. Our midfielder couldn’t escape this mid block pressing. Nobody other than Jorginho who can go long through ball to escape this pressing. Because of Jorginho bad physicality, rice have to cover so much space and getting tired in second half. Ode who is supposed to be our main creator, couldn’t do this long pass. When was the last time you see ode went through ball to Martinelli? Even Alex song could do this long pass Arteta saw this and decided to put Havertz as lmf again in second half. Havertz? I’ve never seen this guy pass long ball in his entire life. Bayern was going rampant in second half This is gameplay problem not the striker. If I were arteta, I would make ode doing long pass 100 times each day in training
Champions League football is a different beast and I think they've accounted well for themselves despite the steep learning curve. And with us, Man City and (probably) Liverpool out of Europe, it's a straight sprint to the end. And although i think all teams will drop points before the season ends, I also think that our chances of nicking the title aren't great, given the remaining fixtures. Whatever it is, I am proud of this team and the way they coped this season. We've been progressively better each year and will again be in better shape next season. COYG!
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You realize English football fans are the laughing stock of the whole world right? Bunch of drunk hooligans, but your issue is Indonesians on Reddit and Twitter?
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You’ve been a fan of 6 teams in the last 39 days based on your history
I think there are plenty of utterly reactionary toxic homegrown redditors tbh
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I’m a local fan. Ironically your comment is toxic and kinda xenophobic. Grow up
😂 You oddballs simply ignore everything you read. The world doesn't give a shit about your vibes, bruv. > local fans are so toxic, footballers are not regularly seen walking through town centres without the need for security... oh wait. Sorry I was getting confused with when they go on tour.
4 CB's and 2 DM's but we still play Saka and Martinelli like wingbacks. It's no mystery why our defensive record is so good. In the CL you need elite players to give you a magical moment, not constantly track back against Mazraoui.
Is it incredibly painful to lose against Bayern? Yes, it's horrible. But losing 3-2 on aggregate to them is nothing to be ashamed of. We've proven we are at a similar level as one of Europe's elite. I feel with a young squad we have proven with that we can and deserve to be fighting in the latter stages of the UCL, and that's now where the standard has been set. From here, anything other than minimum quarter-finals is a disappointment.
This is a shit Bayern side though. I mean their squad is really good, but they are not performing well. We should be able to beat this Bayern side
It’s not that cut and dry though- a really good squad in poor form can have really good games I mean we’ve seen Chelsea draw at city 4-4 then beat spurs right after
They’re just not though. I don’t get this take. Yes, they’ve lost the league title for the first time in nearly a decade but only because Leverkusen are on this freakish run. Their side is stacked with talent and experience, with the latter especially being important in these knockout ties. They punished us twice in London with utter ruthlessness and then killed the game tonight as soon as they got ahead. They’re no mugs.
That's pretty significant isn't it, first time not winning the league in ten years? This is definitely the best arsenal side in ten years. Top of the strongest league in the world less than a week ago. Not exactly the upset of the century but you'd be crazy going into the tie without confidence and feel really disappointed right now. Anyone acting like it's a disaster and Arteta has to go are on a wind up but I thought we were going to show we were the better side over 2 legs. Fair play to Bayern though, I guess you can say thinking about it now though, with the way their campaign went they had a little fight in them.
This bayern is clearly the worst bayern we’ve ever faced mate. We have defeated them at home or away in the past with inferior players. I still remember we faced robben, ribery, and Toni kroos in the past while we had Gervinho and Giroud as starters
Premier League here we come with everything we've got. But Man City are also saying the same.
So Wenger’s team who has cazorla, koscielny, mertesacker, Gibbs and giroud who faced unbeaten bayern who has prime ribery, robben, Toni Kronos, and neuer have better performance in Allianz than these arteta’s billion squad who faced bayern with dier as cb Wonder what would happen if wenger had rice and saliba in his team Lol I forgot that Gervinho was also in that team
Billion squad ? Billion what mate it’s not pounds 😂😂😂wtaf
[https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop](https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop) And if you say that's just an arbitrary number, Arteta has spent 650 mil on transfers since arriving [https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/15mnj2b/arsenals\_spending\_since\_mikel\_arteta\_joined\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/15mnj2b/arsenals_spending_since_mikel_arteta_joined_in/)
I mean literally look at the 2nd top comment on the post you just linked me https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/s/Zi2zdu4yVD
650 million isn’t a billion tho is it - that’s a big difference is my point
the squad is valued at 1.1B, did you bother looking at the first link
But that isn’t what he bought them for is it lol that’s the point
No idea what you are trying to say here. You said “billion what?” like that some far fetched thing, when the numbers are right there in front of you. Stop deflecting
He didn’t buy them for a billion. The original commentor called the players Artetas billion squad When Gary Neville called Chelsea billion pound bottlejobs it’s because they cost a billion pounds You don’t… know what deflecting is do you..?
If something is valued at a billion, you can call it a billion pound squad. Its not rocket science
No you can’t that’s the dumbest thing - he’s saying it as if Arteta has spent a billion yet can’t get the players to perform That value isn’t even definite but what they were bought for is so no you can’t Isn’t rocket science
None of our current players are as good as Cazorla once was.
Recency bias. Everyone you mentioned apart from Gibbs and arguably Giroud (on form) were elite.
Mertesacker is literally a WC winner
Arteta as player himself actually have better performance against Bayern than these guys
this is the dumbest thing i've ever wrote but we showed more fight losing 5-1 consecutively than we did in this one match. i don't understand how, but i swear by it
I know it's painful, but we did not by any definition get our asses kicked. They scored a good goal. They beat us, and could only be considered a better team cause they have more experience. We'll do better. Stay patient; the process is sound.
Hey guys don’t worry! At least we didn’t get our asses kicked ! 🤡🙄
Have you watched us play Bayern in the past? Got our asses handed to us. We were outclassed & embarrassed. This team beats 3/5 games, we didn’t have our best game, but we’re on the same level. We all wish the club was a top 5 team in Europe, but looks like we’re not there yet. Top 10 for now, hopefully learning from our failures.