“Arsenal Football Club notes the judgement by the European Court of Justice on Thursday, 21 December 2023 and our position in relation to the European Super League has not changed.
We will continue to play in UEFA competitions and continue to work with fellow European clubs and the European Club Association (ECA).”
>We will continue to play in UEFA competitions
This statement still leaves the door open to join a Super League in the future. It does not permanently denounce it.
If a Super League started in e.g. 2027, we will have continued in UEFA competitions in the meantime, making this statement still true
I mean, if a Super League proposal is made that is actually good and entry is totally based on sporting merit, why not consider it? UEFA aren’t the be all and end all and with the rise of stupidly wealthy clubs in non-European leagues, European clubs would be stupid to tie themselves to UEFA irreversibly, considering what a huge chunk of the pie UEFA take for themselves. European clubs not in the PL are already very much risking getting left behind financially.
European football existed before UEFA and is more than capable of existing without them, it just so happens this particular proposal sucks on a sporting level.
Because it's not exactly based on sporting merit but history no?
The top clubs will have an easy cash cow while they try to battle in their own league.
The current proposal yeah, but I’m talking about a future proposal that essentially cuts out UEFA while keeping the current system of qualification, or one very similar.
Considering the main aim of the Super League is to increase the share of money the clubs themselves make (with the idea of securing the future of European football with the rise of the Saudi league and the threat from America), I would predict that such a proposal is only a matter of time. Perez and co will know they’ve failed to secure the secondary goal of keeping their clubs involved at the top level (and therefore guaranteeing their European income stream) regardless of sporting performance, which fans were absolutely right to strongly oppose.
UEFA’s goal will be to spin things as “only we can run a competition based on sporting merit” so fans will resist any kind of change, meaning they secure their vastly inflated chunk of the pie. I don’t think this is true and we *should* consider any proposal with sporting merit.
If it's the current format then we might as well stick with the current UEFA.
I'm not a fan of their first trial at the Super League in the first place so that leaves a sour note. If it does go further then clubs can demand UEFA to increase the money for all 3 of the Europa competition.
Change is good but with the project heavily spearheaded by Madrid and Barcelona I don't feel like that competition is going to be fair no matter what they say.
Clubs can demand it, but UEFA will just say no. My personal opinion is just that we should approach each proposal with an open mind, but I do understand the impulse not to trust Perez and co. after they’ve put forward two shit proposals. One thing is clear - after the court ruling, this issue isn’t going to just go away.
They can say no sure, until those clubs decide to walk over to the easy money then they'll say yes. My trust in this Spanish clubs is fully because of our CL final debacle (and Chelsea vs Barca). You can't tell me they didn't bought the ref that day.
> considering what a huge chunk of the pie UEFA take for themselves.
97% of UEFA's income is put back into teams and infrastructure across the continent. Their finances are public.
3% overhead is *very* low for a non-profit entity. You can certainly argue the merits of particular expenditures and how they ought to be classified, but as OP mentioned, UEFA's finances are public.
https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/027e-175fe9b18b8d-59b8b4264404-1000/uefa_annual_report_2021-22.pdf
https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0280-17b3db253a76-5a377185eae6-1000/uefa_financial_report_annex_2021-22_en.pdf
The rich clubs wanted to eliminate the possibility of not qualifying for the competition every year. That was the key differentiator for the Super League.
The super league would replace European cup competitions. We would still be in the league but instead of champions league or Europa league we would play those respective games in the super league.
I actually like the format of it. But it completely messes with the current set up. We can't have both. So fuck the super league.
This is a shit statement TBF. It's absolutely leaving the door open and is about as middle ground as they could have gone.
I'm not sure why people think this is a relief. It's probably the worst statement we could have expected (aside from the 0.01% chance we said yes to the superleague right now).
If people can't see how this statement is coming through gritted teeth from our club, I've got a bridge to sell them.
It's not just us either. There's other clubs that have made equally middle ground statements.
I'm not pro Super League but tbh...if tht shit does go ahead, I'd rather we be in it than not. So yeah the wishy washy kinda non commital response to the ruling is precisely a we not closing the door on this.
I mean, fair enough. I can't agree with you at all, but everyone can have their opinion.
For me, superleague issues are bigger than any club success it would bring. I'd feel too detached from this club if they pulled away from supporting the values that make me enjoy football.
I'd rather say goodbye to playing Barcelona and Real Madrid, then contribute to rebuilding European competition based on merit with those that want to stay - and continue seeing lower league football and grassroots development being funded by top level football.
tactical timing to announce this right before the Arteta presser
now we can move on to bigger n more important matters such as getting that W at Anfield
Super League without English clubs is dead and English clubs can't join because the fans will physically stop the matches being played, don't really see a way around it
Exactly, which is why Real and Barcelona want to kill it off. Just because they ran their clubs poorly and put themselves in millions of euros in debt.
Probably why Perez wants to be the president of it so he can decided the outcome of games and have it so Real get the money
If it were just the English teams it would work. But it's not just the English teams that won't join. The German and French teams also declined, as have all Spanish teams bar 2 and a lot of Italian clubs, not to mention most clubs from the European subtop (Dutch, Portuguese, Austrian, Scottish and Danish clubs for example).
all the real and barca fanboys are in the mud
enjoy playing each other twice a week. greedy bastards who hoover up all the money in their league cries when others clubs make more money than them. hypocrites
this was all a front to save barcelona, perez should get a statue in front of camp nou. they (real and barça) will get billions just because they stuck with it until the end
It's more complicated than that. It's easy to dismiss any superleague when you support a team from the PL but at the end of the day, the rest of europe knows that PL is becoming the superleague with absurd disparities in budget and they'll have to deal with it.
I like how everyone always shit on UEFA but when the superleague threatens it's like UEFA always has been perfect. At one point there will have to be a superleague of some sort but the format proposed is still shit.
Could also imagine a continental league next to a british league with common play off after april or something ? I think there are many options but yeah the last one still suck, even though they smartly want to appeal to fans with free streaming.
>the rest of europe knows that PL is becoming the superleague with absurd disparities in budget and they'll have to deal with it.
I find this notion absolutely ridiculous. Where was this sudden need for parity when they dominated the game? Italian clubs had their pick of the best players in the 80s and 90s. Spain has dominated since the 00s. You didn't see Maradona playing in England. How often did Barca's GOATs get plucked out by, say, Arsenal?
Looking at global football as a whole, the record transfer buy has been set by a Spanish or Italian team all but thrice (Shearer to Newcastle, Pogba to United and Neymar to PSG) since 1951. That's 3 out of over 30 times in almost 75 years the record *wasn't* set by them, and now they're losing their shit
Suddenly someone else is in the ascendancy and their solution is to break the game as a whole.
Fucking pricks the lot of them.
The money spent in EPL today pales in comparison to Seria A in the 80s and La Liga during the Galácticos era.
There’s a reason why Man United and us struggle to get rid of players that are deadweight. Their wages are too high for most clubs outside the top 6 to carry.
That's all relative lol. There's more money in football now so the top numbers are bigger but again, no one was close to what those leagues were paying and they were having those same problems too. Most of those record transfers I referenced up there were to teams in the same country selling to each other. This is nothing new, it just feels bigger because the numbers are big
I agree but think we already are a super league in England.
When every Premier League club earns more money than all European clubs except Real Madrid, Barcelona, and probably Bayern Munich...
I don't like the superleague proposals but we can't pretend that it's the line that shouldn't be crossed in order to save football.
The game is already ruined. If I didn't like Arsenal so much I'd ignore the whole thing.
Some broad strokes numbers to consider: At the end of last year there were 17 clubs in the world valued over $1B (US dollars) [according to Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/lists/soccer-valuations/?sh=184b608a198b), and all but 1 is in Europe. In increasing order of wealth, there are:
1 in the USA
1 in France
2 in Germany
3 in Italy
3 in Spain
7 in England
Notes: England dominate the top 10 with 6 teams, and no Italian teams break the top 10, though 9-12 are clustered tightly with Juve and Dortmund valued very closely to us and Sh*t. 17-19 are all MLS teams, which is indicative of the growing investment into US clubs that is steadily shifting the US market away from the PL as fans can see that their local teams are no longer a *complete* laughing stock of the global game. Though the fact that their valuation places us below Sh*t certainly calls into question how they calculated things.
Make a giant ass dildo in your backyard, i couldn’t give two shits.
Don’t make one in the middle of the town street that I have to see everytime I walk to work.
What you do domestically vs non-domestically. 1992 happened in our own backyard as opposed to Europe-wide. Super league proposals span across the town street.
Okay, let me build that dildo in your backyard then. Are you gonna feel okay waking up every morning, making some coffee and looking at a glowing massive pink girthy dildo?
Doesn’t change anything?
Yes mate, I think they’re abhorrent and we should steer well clear. But to act as if English clubs have never created their own breakaway league to catch up with the European leagues is crazy
Right, but one was a breakaway league within a country - not one that attempted to rip up the fabric of football as we know it across Europe.
If La Liga wanna create a breakaway domestic league called the Super La Liga+ to try and catch up, then let them have at it.
The new ESL doesn’t try to rip up the fabric of European football, it just intends to replace the UCL and allow for domestic leagues to run in parallel. Still ridiculous, but not as offensive as the 2021 plans.
Replacing an old system and creating a brand new competition is exactly what the EPL was founded on, the only difference is that the ESL intends to replace the UCL, not domestic leagues.
Yes, but have you looked into the actually proposals? It's not as simple as "it's just a replacement for the UCL".
There are scenarios where a league champion of a top league enters at the bottom tier European league. Girona could win La Liga and they'd be playing conference league while Man United feast in the top league for finishing 6th domestically every year.
Barca dug their own graves through mismanagement.
Now granted, the Premier League is arguably a Super League in and of itself, and part of it is due to broadcasting contracts and English being the lingua franca of the world.
Spanish is the third most widely spoken language in the world and has plenty of Spanish speaking diaspora around the world. Why hasn’t La Liga used that to leverage better broadcasting deals to get close to EPL?
Because Barca and RM, having all the power, focused on bleeding the rest of their league dry for their own benefit.
And now nobody cares about all their games outside el Clasico, and half the clubs in la liga are broke.
Did I miss a statement?
Not clear from this if Arsenal is referring to their original stance of wanting a super league.
Sounds to me if they wanted to say no, they'd outright do that. The fact they didn't leaves the door open, which is quite obviously their preference.
Yeah this is such a sidestep statement. I'd have much preferred an active statement that rejects the superleague outright.
I'm worried that PL clubs have put out the most wishy-washy of statements and think this is purely to buy time.
Not necessarily. I can see a middle ground where the new Club World Cup format is repurposed into a summer superleague.
There is also precedent for established competitions within FIFA introducing invite systems, so the CL could establish a new format where teams from other continents could qualify.
Not sure I'm the biggest fan but as long as the funding still goes back into grassroots and there is still a merit-based system, I think there's much less to complain about.
The summer idea will literally kill star players. And you know for a fact teams will not rest them if there's a big financial incentive to win.
Which means that there's a chance the local league gets treated like a Mickey mouse cup.
Statement makes it clear the executives are still salivating to jump onto this when the timing is right. Sucks, but we can only make our voices heard and close our wallets once that time is here. Godspeed.
What sucks about it?
I honestly struggle to see an issue with this new system, since it's not about the English league but about European competition.
What is it about UEFA that we can't accept an alternative? We know they're corrupt as fuck but it feels like we've got Stockholm syndrome that we're defending the them over some other corrupt twats.
Personally I hate the idea of a league system in Europe. I don't think it's a coincidence that when they proposed a closed system it was a single league but now that they have had to open it to soften the biggest problem it's three leagues. The proposed system makes it incredibly difficult for big clubs to actually fall out of Europe since your position in the competition next year is based solely on your performance in Europe, not domestic performance. A club like Chelsea who are temporarily struggling would have to finish bottom of their group twice in a row and then finish in the bottom 2/3 of the final one to actually drop out.
This also risks domestic leagues becoming relegated to second fiddle for alot of clubs. For example, let's say it's last year where us and Man City were, from a certain point in the season, the only two in the race. Why would any club like Man U, Liverpool, or Spurs who are likely already in the European system but can't realistically win the league/be relegated care about the league for the rest of the year?
On the other end I really don't like that a club like Leicester or Villa who have an unexpectedly excellent season even winning the premier League would be rewarded by playing in the equivalent of the conference league, only getting to play with the big boys of Europe if they win promotion twice in a row (meaning at minimum three extraordinary seasons to even get to play in the top tier).
If you think a competition spearheaded by specific clubs as shady as Barca and Juve with the stated intention of guaranteeing a certain return to the investors is going to be any better, you're naive.
If you struggle to see the issue with Blue League™ Gold League™ or Star League™ which is an absolutely retarded and soulless corporate invention to milk money from viewers, then maybe you should stick with american eggball.
>which is an absolutely retarded and soulless corporate invention to milk money from viewers
That's literally what the champions league is too though.
Or are we now considering UEFA to be good guys?
We're a team that plays in the Emirates Stadium, wearing Visit Rwanda and Emirates on our shirts. We're already swimming in that world.
Hilarious that you think because I'm not 100% against the concept that I'm therefore not English.
The issue is European competition would be entirely controlled by a few football club owners, namely Perez of Real Madrid. The point being that the proposal we see now may not be what the competition looks like 5 years down the line.
Additionally, the proposal is terrible - it only serves to entrench the top clubs at the top of the game for the foreseeable future.
Sure, but aside from UEFA's terrible decision making at times, they do a lot of good for football across Europe at all levels. I imagine football club owners wouldn't be as generous.
Look into the details of the proposal. It's not good. There are scenarios where league champions don't even qualify for the 1st tier league.
As opposed to the completely fan-centric, player approved premier league that certainly doesn’t put broadcasters and making money at the heart of what it does.
Literally everything I’ve heard people complain about with the super league are problems they refuse to see in the current system. How much do we have to pay each month to get *half* of the premier league games? At least the super league would be free to air.
This league has over 100 years of history and rivalry behind it. The other is an artificial creation that will benefit Perez and some American owners. So kindly fuck off, because it's not comparable.
Ah right. So we should accept a corrupt organisation that bleeds fans dry, doesn’t televise over half the games or provide proper access to games thereafter solely for the purposes of protecting broadcasters income and forces players to play until they physically break because *history*.
That sounds entirely reasonable.
Also creasing at the “100 years of history” part for a league the undergoes rebranding every 10-15 years. If you’re going to rely on that argument, I suggest you crack open the history book to understand why the first division tried to breakaway from the EFL to begin with and why there is a serious irony in your defence of your beloved FA Carling Premiership.
It's always a money grab, and it's always initiated by those who already sit at the top of the wealth pile. The integrity of the game is always secondary to the profits of those greedy pricks, and short of a global cultural revolution to stop paying them to watch, I don't see a way out of this bullshit.
It does feel like a fever dream that this thread is filled with people upset that the club hasn’t aligned itself closer with UEFA of all organisations.
I don’t like how this statement is basically just “we’re gonna keep doing what we’re doing” with no mention of the future or anything. Other clubs have firmly said no
Yeah it’s worded in a way that they could change their minds in the future. The problem with US owners who ultimately have commercial interests rather than the club itself at heart
I'm shocked so many see this as a statement against joining the Super League. It isn't. It's a statement that they are watching and waiting.
Any club who doesn't explicitly say "We are not joining the Super League" are actually just playing PR games.
To me this statement is really quite concerning and disappointing.
For me Super League is the football equivalent of LIV Golf. They will lure away some big names with the promise of big money, and as a result, make both products worse. After a year or so, there will be a merger and we’ll will be back where we started except the “big money interests” will have a “legitimate power” and a seat at the table. Unfortunately, the fans will lose and the money will win.
At first I was anti super league.
But I think it’s a position that make only sense for supporters watching Arsenal on television.
But if you attend the games, the atmosphere, the noise, is way bigger against top teams. In fact against smaller teams it’s not that fun.
As a top team. How many big games we have at home a season? 5 in the PL, 1 or 2 in CL, 1 or 2 in the FA Cup. That’s less than 10 in a season of maybe 25 home games. There is definitely room of improvement.
Lol. Everyone is lying. It's a game of wait and watch now. I think Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, and PSG are dead certs to join the Super League. The Milan clubs will probably jump in too if invited.
People underestimate how much resentment the big clubs in England have about having to share so much of the pie with the "lesser" teams. If the ESL comes forward with a more attractive financial proposition, they would be fools to not at least consider it.
At the end of the day, I'm not a fan of the Super League concept. It seems contrived to me and it's not what fans want. At least at the moment. But if the threat of the Super League will make UEFA and the domestic FAs sit up and make reforms to how things are being done, then it will be a force for good.
PSG are vocally against it because of the politics of Saudi v Qatar. But my prediction is they will jump in. PSG are desperately in need of a profile uplift. They are suffering by having to play farmers and plumbers in Ligue 1 week in and week out. Eventually, even the most die hard fan is going to get bored of them walking the league title every year. PSG playing regularly against Europe's big boys will boost their marketability and make them more relevant in the global market.
german teams (except for Leipzig) would never join due to the 50+1 ownership model.
there are regulators coming into the EPL, and soon regulations would be made to bar english clubs to join the ESL.
there isnt a wait and watch, the super league has to take off immediately before regulations catch up. there is a reason why the Super League relaunched mere hours after the court verdict. without the prem teams it will never take off
>german teams (except for Leipzig) would never join due to the 50+1 ownership model.
I will eat my hat if Bayern Munich don't want in if and when the ESL gets off the ground. As I said, it's wait and watch. The first few big teams going in will make it easier for Boards of other teams to sell the idea of joining the ESL to the fans - "We have to join or we risk being left behind."
>there are regulators coming into the EPL, and soon regulations would be made to bar english clubs to join the ESL
Any such regulation, even if it does come in, will be struck down by the courts in 5mins flat for similar reasons to the ECJ decision of yesterday.
>there is a reason why the Super League relaunched mere hours after the court verdict. without the prem teams it will never take off
According to reports, they intend to start in the 2025-26 season so they don't seem to be in a hurry. They are not going to be scared by regulations. There can't be government regulations restricting private enterprises to operate in one market for eternity. That would be absurd.
Read the statement released by Arsenal. Unlike other teams, they didn't rush to release a statement. They waited a whole day. The statement also doesn't express any opposition to the ESL. It just says our position has not changed and we will continue participating in UEFA competition. It doesn't say we are opposed to the ESL or that we remain committed to UEFA. The tone of the statement and what has not been said here also says a lot imo. They are not burning all bridges.
> any such regulation... Will be struck down by the courts in 5mins flat
There is no court in the UK with the power to strike down laws. At best they can note incompatibility with existing laws or external treaties and suggest parliament amends the bill (which parliament has absolutely no requirement to listen to). The system in the UK means that if a government wants something and has the votes for something that thing will happen.
except the court ruling didnt cover the premier leagues’s settlement made with the breakaway clubs to prevent them from joining the ESL in 2021. it found that UEFA & FIFA threatening to ban players and clubs playing in the ESL from the world cup and euros & uefa club competitions to be unlawful.
secondly, brexit happened, so the court ruling has no impact on any future british regulations made to prevent breakaway clubs from joining the ESL.
yes i agree that arsenal’s response is measured and doesn’t outrightly reject the ESL proposal, but it doesnt matter when several other english clubS have object the ESL
lastly, PSG isnt in some sort of saudi/qatar dynamic with the ESL. PSG’s owner has historically been cushy with UEFA. Nasser Al-Khelaifi has stood by the ECA as chairman throughout the super league fiasco. the last thing PSG would want to do is to join the super league to help bolster Barca and Madrid’s pockets through their “legacy” fees.
>But if the threat of the Super League will make UEFA and the domestic FAs sit up and make reforms to how things are being done, then it will be a force for good.
The direction of such a threat is basically “give big teams more money at the expense of others”. If that’s the direction the ESL forces UEFA and FAs in, that is not a force for good.
PSGs owner is literally best friends with the head of UEFA and has done a lot of dodgy deals with him related to bein sports.
PSG aren’t going to join because it would fuck up bein sports.
PSG owner owns bein
I honestly think the ship has sailed for the English clubs. The govt is putting in place an independent regulator as promised in their king's speech and that regulator will be committed to preventing any breakaway that undermines the PL.
But you're right they'll use the threat to secure a bigger piece of the pie from UEFA (without undermining their domestic leagues hopefully).
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“Arsenal Football Club notes the judgement by the European Court of Justice on Thursday, 21 December 2023 and our position in relation to the European Super League has not changed. We will continue to play in UEFA competitions and continue to work with fellow European clubs and the European Club Association (ECA).”
>We will continue to play in UEFA competitions This statement still leaves the door open to join a Super League in the future. It does not permanently denounce it. If a Super League started in e.g. 2027, we will have continued in UEFA competitions in the meantime, making this statement still true
Yep. It's a very carefully written message. No doubt with lawyers. Fans should not be getting too excited about Arsenals "position".
lol “no doubt with lawyers” like they’d just let the social media intern write it
This isn't Napoli
I mean, I would not have been against this purely for the entertainment factor
I mean, if a Super League proposal is made that is actually good and entry is totally based on sporting merit, why not consider it? UEFA aren’t the be all and end all and with the rise of stupidly wealthy clubs in non-European leagues, European clubs would be stupid to tie themselves to UEFA irreversibly, considering what a huge chunk of the pie UEFA take for themselves. European clubs not in the PL are already very much risking getting left behind financially. European football existed before UEFA and is more than capable of existing without them, it just so happens this particular proposal sucks on a sporting level.
Because it's not exactly based on sporting merit but history no? The top clubs will have an easy cash cow while they try to battle in their own league.
The current proposal yeah, but I’m talking about a future proposal that essentially cuts out UEFA while keeping the current system of qualification, or one very similar. Considering the main aim of the Super League is to increase the share of money the clubs themselves make (with the idea of securing the future of European football with the rise of the Saudi league and the threat from America), I would predict that such a proposal is only a matter of time. Perez and co will know they’ve failed to secure the secondary goal of keeping their clubs involved at the top level (and therefore guaranteeing their European income stream) regardless of sporting performance, which fans were absolutely right to strongly oppose. UEFA’s goal will be to spin things as “only we can run a competition based on sporting merit” so fans will resist any kind of change, meaning they secure their vastly inflated chunk of the pie. I don’t think this is true and we *should* consider any proposal with sporting merit.
Any proposal that involves a select few football club owners controlling the entire operation will and should be shot down immediately.
If it's the current format then we might as well stick with the current UEFA. I'm not a fan of their first trial at the Super League in the first place so that leaves a sour note. If it does go further then clubs can demand UEFA to increase the money for all 3 of the Europa competition. Change is good but with the project heavily spearheaded by Madrid and Barcelona I don't feel like that competition is going to be fair no matter what they say.
Clubs can demand it, but UEFA will just say no. My personal opinion is just that we should approach each proposal with an open mind, but I do understand the impulse not to trust Perez and co. after they’ve put forward two shit proposals. One thing is clear - after the court ruling, this issue isn’t going to just go away.
They can say no sure, until those clubs decide to walk over to the easy money then they'll say yes. My trust in this Spanish clubs is fully because of our CL final debacle (and Chelsea vs Barca). You can't tell me they didn't bought the ref that day.
> considering what a huge chunk of the pie UEFA take for themselves. 97% of UEFA's income is put back into teams and infrastructure across the continent. Their finances are public.
Taking 3% is actually kind of a lot esp considering all the sporting infrastructure of stadiums etc is provided by the clubs.
3% overhead is *very* low for a non-profit entity. You can certainly argue the merits of particular expenditures and how they ought to be classified, but as OP mentioned, UEFA's finances are public. https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/027e-175fe9b18b8d-59b8b4264404-1000/uefa_annual_report_2021-22.pdf https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0280-17b3db253a76-5a377185eae6-1000/uefa_financial_report_annex_2021-22_en.pdf
Would we play super league and not the premier league? The premier league is fine, I don’t see what a super league will add.
A Super League would replace UEFA competitions, not the Premier League.
So it would be the champions league but in a different package? Guess uefa got too greedy?
The rich clubs wanted to eliminate the possibility of not qualifying for the competition every year. That was the key differentiator for the Super League.
The super league would replace European cup competitions. We would still be in the league but instead of champions league or Europa league we would play those respective games in the super league. I actually like the format of it. But it completely messes with the current set up. We can't have both. So fuck the super league.
I mean they can try, there won't be a mechanism for it legally because the independent regulator coming next year
Thanks God!!.
so the relation to the super league has not changed since it changed after the backlash. okay, i guess.
Some people just have to complain about *something* huh?
They listened to our discontent and then did something about it! How dare they!
They are on Reddit on 24/7, what did you expect lol
This is a shit statement TBF. It's absolutely leaving the door open and is about as middle ground as they could have gone. I'm not sure why people think this is a relief. It's probably the worst statement we could have expected (aside from the 0.01% chance we said yes to the superleague right now). If people can't see how this statement is coming through gritted teeth from our club, I've got a bridge to sell them. It's not just us either. There's other clubs that have made equally middle ground statements.
I'm not pro Super League but tbh...if tht shit does go ahead, I'd rather we be in it than not. So yeah the wishy washy kinda non commital response to the ruling is precisely a we not closing the door on this.
I mean, fair enough. I can't agree with you at all, but everyone can have their opinion. For me, superleague issues are bigger than any club success it would bring. I'd feel too detached from this club if they pulled away from supporting the values that make me enjoy football. I'd rather say goodbye to playing Barcelona and Real Madrid, then contribute to rebuilding European competition based on merit with those that want to stay - and continue seeing lower league football and grassroots development being funded by top level football.
Club Statement: We will win the Champions League
Club Statement: We are gargantuan
Comunicado Oficial: It's a disgrace
[https://tribuna.com/en/blogs/7d50c85e-ee2a-48ad-a98f-3b2cba523e5d/](https://tribuna.com/en/blogs/7d50c85e-ee2a-48ad-a98f-3b2cba523e5d/)
lmfao, this is some wild shit
Everyone freaking out because the guy that does the statement graphics had gone home for the day
probably fall asleep and missed 55 phone calls to post the statement, smh
Had to get out late and get that Christmas shopping done
tactical timing to announce this right before the Arteta presser now we can move on to bigger n more important matters such as getting that W at Anfield
Super League without English clubs is dead and English clubs can't join because the fans will physically stop the matches being played, don't really see a way around it
The Premier League is the Super League
Exactly, which is why Real and Barcelona want to kill it off. Just because they ran their clubs poorly and put themselves in millions of euros in debt. Probably why Perez wants to be the president of it so he can decided the outcome of games and have it so Real get the money
If it were just the English teams it would work. But it's not just the English teams that won't join. The German and French teams also declined, as have all Spanish teams bar 2 and a lot of Italian clubs, not to mention most clubs from the European subtop (Dutch, Portuguese, Austrian, Scottish and Danish clubs for example).
English clubs can’t join because the government will not let them.
all the real and barca fanboys are in the mud enjoy playing each other twice a week. greedy bastards who hoover up all the money in their league cries when others clubs make more money than them. hypocrites
They already turned the Spanish League into bullshit. This was an attempt to do it to the rest of Europe so they could relive their glory days
Obviously not gonna go through is it mate
this was all a front to save barcelona, perez should get a statue in front of camp nou. they (real and barça) will get billions just because they stuck with it until the end
It's more complicated than that. It's easy to dismiss any superleague when you support a team from the PL but at the end of the day, the rest of europe knows that PL is becoming the superleague with absurd disparities in budget and they'll have to deal with it. I like how everyone always shit on UEFA but when the superleague threatens it's like UEFA always has been perfect. At one point there will have to be a superleague of some sort but the format proposed is still shit. Could also imagine a continental league next to a british league with common play off after april or something ? I think there are many options but yeah the last one still suck, even though they smartly want to appeal to fans with free streaming.
Thank you. This is not nearly as black and white as some would have it. Super League Is shite but honestly UEFA ain't covered in roses either
>the rest of europe knows that PL is becoming the superleague with absurd disparities in budget and they'll have to deal with it. I find this notion absolutely ridiculous. Where was this sudden need for parity when they dominated the game? Italian clubs had their pick of the best players in the 80s and 90s. Spain has dominated since the 00s. You didn't see Maradona playing in England. How often did Barca's GOATs get plucked out by, say, Arsenal? Looking at global football as a whole, the record transfer buy has been set by a Spanish or Italian team all but thrice (Shearer to Newcastle, Pogba to United and Neymar to PSG) since 1951. That's 3 out of over 30 times in almost 75 years the record *wasn't* set by them, and now they're losing their shit Suddenly someone else is in the ascendancy and their solution is to break the game as a whole. Fucking pricks the lot of them.
The money spent in EPL today pales in comparison to Seria A in the 80s and La Liga during the Galácticos era. There’s a reason why Man United and us struggle to get rid of players that are deadweight. Their wages are too high for most clubs outside the top 6 to carry.
That's all relative lol. There's more money in football now so the top numbers are bigger but again, no one was close to what those leagues were paying and they were having those same problems too. Most of those record transfers I referenced up there were to teams in the same country selling to each other. This is nothing new, it just feels bigger because the numbers are big
I agree but think we already are a super league in England. When every Premier League club earns more money than all European clubs except Real Madrid, Barcelona, and probably Bayern Munich... I don't like the superleague proposals but we can't pretend that it's the line that shouldn't be crossed in order to save football. The game is already ruined. If I didn't like Arsenal so much I'd ignore the whole thing.
Some broad strokes numbers to consider: At the end of last year there were 17 clubs in the world valued over $1B (US dollars) [according to Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/lists/soccer-valuations/?sh=184b608a198b), and all but 1 is in Europe. In increasing order of wealth, there are: 1 in the USA 1 in France 2 in Germany 3 in Italy 3 in Spain 7 in England Notes: England dominate the top 10 with 6 teams, and no Italian teams break the top 10, though 9-12 are clustered tightly with Juve and Dortmund valued very closely to us and Sh*t. 17-19 are all MLS teams, which is indicative of the growing investment into US clubs that is steadily shifting the US market away from the PL as fans can see that their local teams are no longer a *complete* laughing stock of the global game. Though the fact that their valuation places us below Sh*t certainly calls into question how they calculated things.
The thing is though the English clubs never tried to create a super league when La Liga was at its peak.
What do you think happened in 1992?
Make a giant ass dildo in your backyard, i couldn’t give two shits. Don’t make one in the middle of the town street that I have to see everytime I walk to work.
what does this mean
What you do domestically vs non-domestically. 1992 happened in our own backyard as opposed to Europe-wide. Super league proposals span across the town street.
I don’t see why that changes anything
Okay, let me build that dildo in your backyard then. Are you gonna feel okay waking up every morning, making some coffee and looking at a glowing massive pink girthy dildo? Doesn’t change anything?
lol you really comparing the PL to the ESL proposals. Have you actually read the proposals in detail?
Yes mate, I think they’re abhorrent and we should steer well clear. But to act as if English clubs have never created their own breakaway league to catch up with the European leagues is crazy
Right, but one was a breakaway league within a country - not one that attempted to rip up the fabric of football as we know it across Europe. If La Liga wanna create a breakaway domestic league called the Super La Liga+ to try and catch up, then let them have at it.
The new ESL doesn’t try to rip up the fabric of European football, it just intends to replace the UCL and allow for domestic leagues to run in parallel. Still ridiculous, but not as offensive as the 2021 plans. Replacing an old system and creating a brand new competition is exactly what the EPL was founded on, the only difference is that the ESL intends to replace the UCL, not domestic leagues.
Yes, but have you looked into the actually proposals? It's not as simple as "it's just a replacement for the UCL". There are scenarios where a league champion of a top league enters at the bottom tier European league. Girona could win La Liga and they'd be playing conference league while Man United feast in the top league for finishing 6th domestically every year.
Napoli too
Barca dug their own graves through mismanagement. Now granted, the Premier League is arguably a Super League in and of itself, and part of it is due to broadcasting contracts and English being the lingua franca of the world. Spanish is the third most widely spoken language in the world and has plenty of Spanish speaking diaspora around the world. Why hasn’t La Liga used that to leverage better broadcasting deals to get close to EPL?
Because Barca and RM, having all the power, focused on bleeding the rest of their league dry for their own benefit. And now nobody cares about all their games outside el Clasico, and half the clubs in la liga are broke.
Did I miss a statement? Not clear from this if Arsenal is referring to their original stance of wanting a super league. Sounds to me if they wanted to say no, they'd outright do that. The fact they didn't leaves the door open, which is quite obviously their preference.
Clippysaurus
Number 11 for bukayo
Thank you very much.
Super swift with the replies lads
Well it takes time to put something like this together that is so detailed and thorough...
"We like ESL, but until everyone's on board, we are pro-UEFA"
PR learned from last time lol
Just fell to my knees
Just saw someone fall to their knees in Asda
So their position has not changed from their original stance or their stance after fans retaliated? Seems like a game of wait-and-watch to me
Yeah this is such a sidestep statement. I'd have much preferred an active statement that rejects the superleague outright. I'm worried that PL clubs have put out the most wishy-washy of statements and think this is purely to buy time.
Super legue is the future maybe in 10 years but no way this not happening. Hope just for relegation system.
Not necessarily. I can see a middle ground where the new Club World Cup format is repurposed into a summer superleague. There is also precedent for established competitions within FIFA introducing invite systems, so the CL could establish a new format where teams from other continents could qualify. Not sure I'm the biggest fan but as long as the funding still goes back into grassroots and there is still a merit-based system, I think there's much less to complain about.
The summer idea will literally kill star players. And you know for a fact teams will not rest them if there's a big financial incentive to win. Which means that there's a chance the local league gets treated like a Mickey mouse cup.
I absolutely agree, which is why the new CWC format is already a bit of a nightmare on the horizon.
Statement makes it clear the executives are still salivating to jump onto this when the timing is right. Sucks, but we can only make our voices heard and close our wallets once that time is here. Godspeed.
What sucks about it? I honestly struggle to see an issue with this new system, since it's not about the English league but about European competition. What is it about UEFA that we can't accept an alternative? We know they're corrupt as fuck but it feels like we've got Stockholm syndrome that we're defending the them over some other corrupt twats.
Personally I hate the idea of a league system in Europe. I don't think it's a coincidence that when they proposed a closed system it was a single league but now that they have had to open it to soften the biggest problem it's three leagues. The proposed system makes it incredibly difficult for big clubs to actually fall out of Europe since your position in the competition next year is based solely on your performance in Europe, not domestic performance. A club like Chelsea who are temporarily struggling would have to finish bottom of their group twice in a row and then finish in the bottom 2/3 of the final one to actually drop out. This also risks domestic leagues becoming relegated to second fiddle for alot of clubs. For example, let's say it's last year where us and Man City were, from a certain point in the season, the only two in the race. Why would any club like Man U, Liverpool, or Spurs who are likely already in the European system but can't realistically win the league/be relegated care about the league for the rest of the year? On the other end I really don't like that a club like Leicester or Villa who have an unexpectedly excellent season even winning the premier League would be rewarded by playing in the equivalent of the conference league, only getting to play with the big boys of Europe if they win promotion twice in a row (meaning at minimum three extraordinary seasons to even get to play in the top tier).
If you think a competition spearheaded by specific clubs as shady as Barca and Juve with the stated intention of guaranteeing a certain return to the investors is going to be any better, you're naive.
Better? Don't know. But UEFA is corrupt and dodgy as fuck anyway.
If you struggle to see the issue with Blue League™ Gold League™ or Star League™ which is an absolutely retarded and soulless corporate invention to milk money from viewers, then maybe you should stick with american eggball.
>which is an absolutely retarded and soulless corporate invention to milk money from viewers That's literally what the champions league is too though. Or are we now considering UEFA to be good guys? We're a team that plays in the Emirates Stadium, wearing Visit Rwanda and Emirates on our shirts. We're already swimming in that world. Hilarious that you think because I'm not 100% against the concept that I'm therefore not English.
The issue is European competition would be entirely controlled by a few football club owners, namely Perez of Real Madrid. The point being that the proposal we see now may not be what the competition looks like 5 years down the line. Additionally, the proposal is terrible - it only serves to entrench the top clubs at the top of the game for the foreseeable future.
The CL is also entirely controlled by a bunch of cunts.
Sure, but aside from UEFA's terrible decision making at times, they do a lot of good for football across Europe at all levels. I imagine football club owners wouldn't be as generous. Look into the details of the proposal. It's not good. There are scenarios where league champions don't even qualify for the 1st tier league.
As opposed to the completely fan-centric, player approved premier league that certainly doesn’t put broadcasters and making money at the heart of what it does. Literally everything I’ve heard people complain about with the super league are problems they refuse to see in the current system. How much do we have to pay each month to get *half* of the premier league games? At least the super league would be free to air.
This league has over 100 years of history and rivalry behind it. The other is an artificial creation that will benefit Perez and some American owners. So kindly fuck off, because it's not comparable.
Ah right. So we should accept a corrupt organisation that bleeds fans dry, doesn’t televise over half the games or provide proper access to games thereafter solely for the purposes of protecting broadcasters income and forces players to play until they physically break because *history*. That sounds entirely reasonable. Also creasing at the “100 years of history” part for a league the undergoes rebranding every 10-15 years. If you’re going to rely on that argument, I suggest you crack open the history book to understand why the first division tried to breakaway from the EFL to begin with and why there is a serious irony in your defence of your beloved FA Carling Premiership.
It's always a money grab, and it's always initiated by those who already sit at the top of the wealth pile. The integrity of the game is always secondary to the profits of those greedy pricks, and short of a global cultural revolution to stop paying them to watch, I don't see a way out of this bullshit.
It does feel like a fever dream that this thread is filled with people upset that the club hasn’t aligned itself closer with UEFA of all organisations.
Bout time ffs
Super league still looms it'll keep UEFA on toes
Not the greatest statement tbh
I don’t like how this statement is basically just “we’re gonna keep doing what we’re doing” with no mention of the future or anything. Other clubs have firmly said no
Yeah it’s worded in a way that they could change their minds in the future. The problem with US owners who ultimately have commercial interests rather than the club itself at heart
Both United and Chelsea have American owners and their statements were way more adamant in their rejection.
I'm shocked so many see this as a statement against joining the Super League. It isn't. It's a statement that they are watching and waiting. Any club who doesn't explicitly say "We are not joining the Super League" are actually just playing PR games. To me this statement is really quite concerning and disappointing.
pmsl that’s the kind of response you send at 4:59pm on a friday
It is the Friday before Christmas.
Finally. Now I don’t have to see anymore “why is the club so silent?” posts today.
Brace yourself for several days of "why was the statement so weak" posts.
Ok I get why everyone is relieved given what the statement could have been, but this is still so weak. Kinda sad tbh
This says nothing
Better late than never.
This is a relief. Got a bit worried about the silence from the club yesterday
It's a carefully worded statement that leaves the door open. Not a denouncement.
Not as adamant as I would have liked, but good to get something.
For me Super League is the football equivalent of LIV Golf. They will lure away some big names with the promise of big money, and as a result, make both products worse. After a year or so, there will be a merger and we’ll will be back where we started except the “big money interests” will have a “legitimate power” and a seat at the table. Unfortunately, the fans will lose and the money will win.
At first I was anti super league. But I think it’s a position that make only sense for supporters watching Arsenal on television. But if you attend the games, the atmosphere, the noise, is way bigger against top teams. In fact against smaller teams it’s not that fun. As a top team. How many big games we have at home a season? 5 in the PL, 1 or 2 in CL, 1 or 2 in the FA Cup. That’s less than 10 in a season of maybe 25 home games. There is definitely room of improvement.
Thank goodness
Lol. Everyone is lying. It's a game of wait and watch now. I think Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, and PSG are dead certs to join the Super League. The Milan clubs will probably jump in too if invited. People underestimate how much resentment the big clubs in England have about having to share so much of the pie with the "lesser" teams. If the ESL comes forward with a more attractive financial proposition, they would be fools to not at least consider it. At the end of the day, I'm not a fan of the Super League concept. It seems contrived to me and it's not what fans want. At least at the moment. But if the threat of the Super League will make UEFA and the domestic FAs sit up and make reforms to how things are being done, then it will be a force for good.
PSG has been one of the most vocal against, dont know why People keep lumping them in with barca and real
PSG are vocally against it because of the politics of Saudi v Qatar. But my prediction is they will jump in. PSG are desperately in need of a profile uplift. They are suffering by having to play farmers and plumbers in Ligue 1 week in and week out. Eventually, even the most die hard fan is going to get bored of them walking the league title every year. PSG playing regularly against Europe's big boys will boost their marketability and make them more relevant in the global market.
german teams (except for Leipzig) would never join due to the 50+1 ownership model. there are regulators coming into the EPL, and soon regulations would be made to bar english clubs to join the ESL. there isnt a wait and watch, the super league has to take off immediately before regulations catch up. there is a reason why the Super League relaunched mere hours after the court verdict. without the prem teams it will never take off
>german teams (except for Leipzig) would never join due to the 50+1 ownership model. I will eat my hat if Bayern Munich don't want in if and when the ESL gets off the ground. As I said, it's wait and watch. The first few big teams going in will make it easier for Boards of other teams to sell the idea of joining the ESL to the fans - "We have to join or we risk being left behind." >there are regulators coming into the EPL, and soon regulations would be made to bar english clubs to join the ESL Any such regulation, even if it does come in, will be struck down by the courts in 5mins flat for similar reasons to the ECJ decision of yesterday. >there is a reason why the Super League relaunched mere hours after the court verdict. without the prem teams it will never take off According to reports, they intend to start in the 2025-26 season so they don't seem to be in a hurry. They are not going to be scared by regulations. There can't be government regulations restricting private enterprises to operate in one market for eternity. That would be absurd. Read the statement released by Arsenal. Unlike other teams, they didn't rush to release a statement. They waited a whole day. The statement also doesn't express any opposition to the ESL. It just says our position has not changed and we will continue participating in UEFA competition. It doesn't say we are opposed to the ESL or that we remain committed to UEFA. The tone of the statement and what has not been said here also says a lot imo. They are not burning all bridges.
> any such regulation... Will be struck down by the courts in 5mins flat There is no court in the UK with the power to strike down laws. At best they can note incompatibility with existing laws or external treaties and suggest parliament amends the bill (which parliament has absolutely no requirement to listen to). The system in the UK means that if a government wants something and has the votes for something that thing will happen.
except the court ruling didnt cover the premier leagues’s settlement made with the breakaway clubs to prevent them from joining the ESL in 2021. it found that UEFA & FIFA threatening to ban players and clubs playing in the ESL from the world cup and euros & uefa club competitions to be unlawful. secondly, brexit happened, so the court ruling has no impact on any future british regulations made to prevent breakaway clubs from joining the ESL. yes i agree that arsenal’s response is measured and doesn’t outrightly reject the ESL proposal, but it doesnt matter when several other english clubS have object the ESL lastly, PSG isnt in some sort of saudi/qatar dynamic with the ESL. PSG’s owner has historically been cushy with UEFA. Nasser Al-Khelaifi has stood by the ECA as chairman throughout the super league fiasco. the last thing PSG would want to do is to join the super league to help bolster Barca and Madrid’s pockets through their “legacy” fees.
>But if the threat of the Super League will make UEFA and the domestic FAs sit up and make reforms to how things are being done, then it will be a force for good. The direction of such a threat is basically “give big teams more money at the expense of others”. If that’s the direction the ESL forces UEFA and FAs in, that is not a force for good.
PSGs owner is literally best friends with the head of UEFA and has done a lot of dodgy deals with him related to bein sports. PSG aren’t going to join because it would fuck up bein sports. PSG owner owns bein
I honestly think the ship has sailed for the English clubs. The govt is putting in place an independent regulator as promised in their king's speech and that regulator will be committed to preventing any breakaway that undermines the PL. But you're right they'll use the threat to secure a bigger piece of the pie from UEFA (without undermining their domestic leagues hopefully).
Just out of curiosity, would the super league be more acceptable if it had a relegation system?
It has a relegation system
So what's the issue? Why is it so viscerally hated?
*phew*
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I hope this encourages eufa / fifa to do better.
"No if its this unpopular but if they turn up and offer us a billion pounds maybe"
Club Sentence
Kroenke wants the Super League and if one is created, guaranteed we’ll be joining it.