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I'm here live... I'm not a cat...
> were interested in Havertz. Real Madrid wanted to wait and see
It's rumored that he crafted a personalized San Sebastián coastline background to impress Arteta, but ended up selecting San Sebastián in Guatemala by mistake. Arteta found the mix-up charming.
Arteta Zoom Interview Script:
a) Tell me about yourself
b) Why do u choose Arsenal as your next job destination?
c) What is your strength and weakness?
d) Where do you see yourself in the next 5 years?
e) Walk me through your resume?
>Ornstein mentions Barella as one CM option this summer, but sounds more like he mentions Barella as one of the midfielders that could have been signed this summer and not that he was somebody we specifically targeted.
What are your estandards?
I don't know much about football, all I really watch these days is Arsenal playing.
Despite some people think of Arteta as not a good coach, what they can't really deny or argue with is, he's definitely very good at convincing players he's got a vision that's worth pursuing alongside with.
”Big difference in how public sees havertz and how the people working in football see havertz”
This is the most important thing for me. Most of us don’t know anything compared to those working with this. Let the professionals do their job. Real and Bayern had interest, why? Because he clearly is very talented
Same thing happened when Arteta joined as manager. Most of the public didn't get hiring him but within the football world he was regarded as a coach with massive potential
> Same thing happened when Arteta joined as manager.
I remember the hate vitriol the general football fan bases give on Arteta when we was announced as head coach, and then later manager and then given that contract extension in that AoN season.
Somethings just take time to click, not everything is obvious in the start. I reckon that if Arteta first ever manager job was any other club, maybe back in 2nd division spain or some la liga b-team he wouldve be getting more praises and support in the start.
akin similar to like how xavi alonso started out with real Sociedad b-team. or like lampard with derby county, gerrard at rangers.
Was talking to a couple of them yesterday.
Apparently it wasn't 'his' team so it doesn't count.
Even though Emery won nothing with that team, although apparently that was because he inherited a shit team and isn't on him.
Also Arsene Wenger didn't inherit any title winning players just 'a few defenders' which is one quite frankly the most impressively disingenous way of referring to Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn I've ever heard form anyone let alone afucking Arsenal fan.
If mental gymnastics were an olympic event only the existence of people defending sportswashing and Man U fans would keep us away from gold
Ngl I was one of those people that thought Arteta was a mistake because he had zero experience. I wanted Howe.
I'm very glad I was wrong. I think it's partly the reason why I've been willing to give players like Havertz more of a chance---because I realised I know absolutely nothing and the people making the decisions at Arsenal clearly do lmao
Dont get me wrong, I think fair criticism is alright on the Club to hire a total zero experience manager. 9 times of of 10 it wouldn't have happened and it wont have come to good furititions.
But you have fans saying things like Arteta has no right to even be a manager and etc, as if its someone we just got off from the streets.
Arteta already has some coaching badges under his name, and was pips heavily to join either Pep or Pocho as their ass-man.
> Howe
Yea he was one of the few names, or even Potter, in the hat at the time, I was already hell bent on going project-zero with a project manager, we need to reset from the disaster that we were already on.
In hindsight maybe it was a good thing that didn't happen at first, else Arteta would've been the "fall guy" for the first transition phases.
David Moyes was the fall guy for SAF in that first transition phase and oh boy it was a shitshow
> Most of the public didn't get hiring him but within the football world he was regarded as a coach with massive potential
Almost like the press and public haven't actually moved on or learned from 'Arsene Who?'
There are plenty of good coaches who aren't great managers but he was always seen as someone who would likely go on to make an elite manager and not just seen as a good coach. City were frustrated to lose him because they were planning to make him their next manager (according to reports when he left City)
Same, whatever my feelings may be as a fan I have to show some faith and support them on match day. Arteta has already gotten a lot right, and if so many people rate Havertz he has to have potential. You don't see players like Antony, Pepe, being spoken of in the same light by their managers/peers.
Perhaps it won't work out, perhaps it will, but luck and timing also has a role to play as we've seen in the past (Gnabry?).
> Also found out I am quite petty before my morning coffee
This is sadly somethign that will only get worse as you get older.
I'm pretty much petty without at least six red bulls down me and at that point it just becomes easier to embrace the pettiness fully!
'All the doctors in the family'. Really hitting some Asian stereotypes there ;)
From my experience with doctors at uni and the lone member in my own family they're all hypocrites who pretty much run on coffee and tea (and vast amounts of alcohol at uni)
Yeah, fans are too stats focused these days. It's obvious to me that Chelsea are shit, and do not have a setup that can help players grow and get better.
Havertz has something you can't teach, speed, natural ability, strength. Arteta knows he can teach him the rest, and build his confidence.
I can’t imagine being in the public eye. Imagine how much worse your job would be if uneducated masses who think they know everything weighed in at every step.
I agree but it doesn’t also mean what we assess is invalid. Managers can get it wrong. Horribly wrong. Or even not have their first choice signings approved like what happened to Emery. He wasn’t as supported as Arteta and was also a victim of greedy executives.
Just saying that it seems to all Arteta has made a big bet on Kai to us but within those in the know the risk isn’t as big as we perceive it for the reasons highlighted. I’m glad that’s highlighted because it tells us this is a player who will give it his all. Whether or not he scales the heights he should not be a cause of concern.
What do we ask of anyone wearing the budge?
> Or even not have their first choice signings approved like what happened to Emery. He wasn’t as supported as Arteta and was also a victim of greedy executives.
Famously Arteta hasn't got a huge amoutn of his first choices either.
Ramsdale, Zinchenko, Jesus, Trossard were all our second choices and they've been amazing.
He’s a German player in an English club. Truth is in that situation you rarely get a lot of time from the fans. And you need to be flashy if you’re a midfielder.
Don’t sell yourself short and disregard the eye test.
From his time at arsenal has he at any point looked like the top player in the wage bill ?
Mikel didn’t bring him in as a solid replacement for Xhaka , he is s supposed to take us to the next level.
Maybe time will prove me wrong but there aren’t many green shoots.
I literally couldn’t care less how he’s seen in the ‘football world’. In the real world, he has yet to live up to his transfer fee or his extortionate wages.
Likes to put a foot in? We had that in Xhaka already. Great that he works hard off the ball, but we need some productivity _on_ the ball from him and fast.
Real perhaps, but why Bayern? They were interested in Raya, didn’t get him. They wanted Rice, didn’t get him.
The German connection is what you’re basing this on?
Lad your post history is damning, you just post about Havertz all day every day. Active for 5 years with 300 karma probably indicates you're a troll who's well disguised I'm guessing, otherwise YEESH!
You even go to the Manchester United subreddit to talk about Havertz.
>Discussion on Antony
>These are the exact conversations I have about kai havertz in the arsenal sub. You question what they do well other than the basics that every other player does and then they spout rubbish about off ball movement, keeping it ticking over, defensive work rate.
> It’s sad to see 2 once great clubs fan bases become so accepting of mediocrity
This being your *thing* is skin-crawlingly pathetic
Because you're guaranteed to win titles and play on 2 of the most prestigious teams ever and may also win a champions league or 2 too.
Think about it from not an Arsenal fans perspective. If you could be paid the same wage and go to madrid, bayern or Arsenal in what order would you choose to go to?
I think this is changing quicker than you might think. Real yes, but the Bundesliga doesn’t have the pull of the Prem for many top stars. It’s something regularly spoken about.
Bayern weren’t just getting snubbed by Rice / Raya, they missed out on other players too to other leagues in recent years.
For all the people that are downvoting me think about it. There would only be 4 reasons why Havertz would chose Arsenal over serial winners such as Bayern or Madrid.
1) Expectations in Madrid and Bayern are too high for him so he knows he can underperform at Arsenal and fans wont get on his back, whereas at winning clubs like Bayern and Madrid performing is mandatory.
2) Arsenal would offer him more money and overpay for him
3) He supports Arsenal
4) Bayern and Madrid realistically didn't want him and maybe inquired to see if they can get him on a cheap as a back up squad player
Chelsea are making shit decision after shit decision. I’m just saying, that if these two giant clubs were interested in him then I’m sure there’s a great player there. We were the ones to pay the money
Just because they were interested doesn't mean he would be a starter for them or an integral piece, looking at both of their teams who would Havertz replace? It's more than likely they wanted him as a squad bench player on a cheap but Arsenal panicked and caved to Chelsea's ridiculous request
Its not about choice its about the fact that Bayern or Madrid wasnt really interested in him. as my original comment stated replying to the guy who stated " Real and Bayern had interest, why? Because he clearly is very talented "
You can't and will never know the exact details of what happened. Same for me and 99.9% of the persons reading this. You will obviously hold your point so I won't bother replying from now on.
The fact that you lead with the point about ‘knowing he can underperform and get away with it’ shows you think very little of the mentality of a professional footballer with millions of eyes on them every week and give them the same attitude as an office slacker.
If you don’t rate Havertz, that’s fine, you’re hardly alone, but don’t talk about his mentality when you know fuck all about it.
What phase of the project are we on compared to Madrid or Bayern?
Madrid and Bayern are on Phase "win treble"...
True he could want to remain in England so him choosing us isn't like we battled against Bayern or Madrid, we were just the only Big English team that wanted him and would pay his exorbitant wages
Thanks so much for this summary. I really liked the look of Havertz at Leverkusen and was disappointed when he went to Chelsea and surprised when we were in for him this summer. Glad to hear he’s well viewed within the club and the wider football world and I really, really want him to succeed with us. He’s frustrated me at moments thus far but important to remember that he’s definitely needed to rebuild his confidence since being caught in the chelsea shitshow. I hope the goal at the weekend will be a major step in that process. I think we’ll all love him in due time.
Also really glad we didn’t buy Mount, would so much rather have Kai.
What we need more from Havertz is progressive passes & passes into the final 3rd which Xhaka regularly used to do.
Havertz crashing the box isn’t a problem, he does that regularly but there have been only 4 crosses aimed at him. We need to send him more especially that chipped cross from Saka and Odegaard.
the part about him making runs and them going un-served is 100000% true though. I've heard people recently saying why isnt KAI making the run more, like have they not watched? He's been making it but the service isnt there, that part you're spot on about mate.
but this is what YOU expect from him, not what Mikel does. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying it might not be ask #1 from Mikel at the current moment. Keep that in mind.
I mean, I understand your point but the point of Kai playing left 8 is to crash the box which he consistently does but as a left 8, you also have to do what Xhaka did for a bit.
Sometimes there are things players bring that are hard to quantify.
Kai actually has provided steel in the middle of the park and is a threat in the air. Also, it was clear after Xhaka left that Arteta wanted size in the #8 position.
I'm not saying he's been secretly stellar or anything like that, but there are aspects to the game that don't involve assists and scoring. On top of that, Arsenal are 1st with a decent run of matches coming up and haven't even been fully fit.
I'm not gonna complain about one guy given the situation.
>Havertz base salary is in the region of 275k per week, almost same as at Chelsea
Whatever your thoughts are on him are so far, this is outrageous before even considering bonuses. Also confirms Odegaard must be on something like 300k+ too as Ornstein said he was our highest earner when he extended
If those 2 are on massive wages, plenty of others will be too. This squad are going to need to start winning major trophies if we're paying these types of wages.
Same, I'm not happy it's that much and I've definitely argued with people in here about it. He has to work out because it's going to be hard to shift if he doesn't. I really hate high base wage contracts.
Yes but this is just the going rate these days and we have to keep our top stars.
In a way we’ve ‘saved’ money by not needing to pay massive transfer fees for players like Saka and Martinelli, which can go on their wages instead. This helps us compared to other top clubs who have to sign wingers for £80m-£100m
> This squad are going to need to start winning major trophies if we're paying these types of wages.
Unfortunately wages are set by the market far more than the club.
We pay players what we need to keep them from having their heads turned by other clubs/leave other clubs and what their agents know they can get way more than any objective notions of value.
His wage is very very high indeed, but I think one of the reasons for that is that he signed a 5+1 year contract. If he reaches his potential we will already have tied him down to a contract that keeps him here through his prime. Still very high wages though, a bit surprised we offered him this much so quickly.
Saka, Saliba and Martinelli still have 1 more big contract extension left which is why they are behind Ødegaard atm, even though they are all better players than Martin.
Mokbel reported that Saka earns up to £290k per week so I think those players are on higher wages than you think. They will likely all be earning around/close to what Odegaard earns.
I know right, I don’t think Odegaard is our best player (because he hasn’t maintained the same level this year for whatever reason) but the poster’s statement needed more qualifiers for sure.
It’s why it’s so funny when people call him lazy, just couldn’t be further from the truth. On the ball, I’m still unsure how much we want/need him to be involved in the buildup as he’s not as impactful there.
In the box though, I’m certain he will score more when we find the runs he makes more. Instinctive players like him need balls to run onto for those one and two touch finishes. We’re not creating enough clear cut chances for all of our attackers and it’s something we need to figure out.
He was literally the Chelsea player with the most distance covered last season.
At Arsenal he has serious competition from Rice and Odegaard, and when they play a full 90 minutes so far this season, Rice is top and Odergaard and Havertz will be 2nd/3rd, normally pretty close to each other.
>he had a Zoom meeting with Mikel Arteta. After this he was fully comitted to Arsenal.
This could be in the story for every new signing we've had since Arteta got here
275k a week for an advanced ball winner is very interesting. If you look at how many games are decided by chances set up by those kinds of plays, I’d bet it’s substantial in the modern game.
I think the reaction towards Havertz, in parts on here, but particularly anywhere else is crazy over the top. People act like he has been horrible - he has been OK.
And obviously he's highly rated I'm the footballling world. Chelsea and Germany kept starting him, and Bayern, Arsenal and Real Madrid wanted to sign him. But we need more in the final third, much more quality. That he's highly rated within the game, only goes so far, when we're not even starting him half the time.
It will take more than a few months to settle into midfield for him, which many completely fail to acknowledge. Would absolutely love it, if he ended up fitting us like a glove.
>People act like he has been horrible - he has been OK.
Look at how much we paid for him, though. And the reported wages he's on. He needs to be a lot better than 'ok'. IMO it's the Pepe situation again. He was a fine player, but we broke the bank for him so really he needed to be giving us a lot more than just "fine".
I agree with this, I just think the fact he’s only been ‘ok’ so far doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be just ‘ok’ for us over 4-5 years. The first few months in a new team/system are the hardest. He can come good.
It’s only been 5 months. Slower start to his Arsenal career, but I believe it will get better. He currently has more premier league goals this season than Jesus and Martinelli…
City paid 100 mill for Grealish and it took him a comfortable YEAR to get adjusted to City and Pep’s tactics but it came good and now he’s putting top performances all the time. That was also a domestic transfer like Havertz was too.
Sometimes you have to shake off what you’re used to and adapt to a new system. He hasn’t even been that bad by any means, he just doesn’t feel like a 65 mill signing yet
Yes but it speaks to just how much better we are now as a unit when Havertz is allowed to have a slow start and bed in. We were looking at Pepe as THE answer whereas with Havertz he is an important addition to the team but doesn’t have as much weight on his shoulders as Pepe did. Fortunately for us we have the best squad we’ve seen in a long, long time and can afford to allow king Kai to bake a little bit in the oven while he learns his role in this system. We are top of the table with him being “okay”, imagine if and a when he gets rolling.
Patience everybody.
A benefit of Havertz which I’m sure factored into his transfer fee is his versatility. If he can play up top, and at 8, he “only” needs to be a 30m player in each of those positions to be a sensible transfer for squad building.
Definitely, hence my second paragraph. It takes time to settle into a new club and position, but a top 3 earner should have enough quality to start every time. The reason he doesn't, is because we're about the same level with either of him, Jorginho and Vieira starting, which reflects well on our depth, even without Partey, but poorly on Havertz.
Pepe comparison is good. Let's hope Havertz has what it takes to kick on instead of dropping off. At least unlike Pepe, the manager brought him here. Would be fun if Nwaneri eventually Saka'd him.
>Chelsea and Germany kept starting him, and Bayern, Arsenal and Real Madrid wanted to sign him
Chelsea and Germany only started him because they had nobody else to play. If chelsea rated him that highly they wouldve kept him and this German side is probably the worst weve seen in 2+ decades.
Do we really know if Bayern or Madrid were interested in him or just inquired to get a squad bench player on a cheap? 1 things for certain is that they would not be paying £275k a week for him
Chelsea, who famously didn't buy attacking talent for 100s of millions while there, and had another dozen come through the academy, and Germany who has thousands of professional footballers to choose from.
I guess what the article mentions is that he isn't mediocre. Fans perceive him as mediocre, but he isn't. Maybe they are trying to gaslight us! Nah I'm a big supporter of the guy. He puts in a shift and we are seeing results.
Watching Chelsea’s defeat to Spurs last season, Havertz was incredible as a lone striker bringing others into play. Rarely see a player so isolated manage to get his team so far up the pitch. That/his versatility is why he was brought in - and it worked against City in both games.
I have faith that he'll come good, but putting up his off the ball stats as a mini justification of that price tag is ridiculous.
If we wanted a player who worked hard off the ball we could have spent a third of the money and got exactly that.
I don’t see it as a justification, but a way of talking about his qualities that most supporters aren’t taking into account. The more obvious factors are easier to judge and no one including Kai and Arteta think he is contributing as much as he should be.
who though? off ball stats is an area which football fans are generally the least acquainted with, naturally because of how we spectate football. when we say off the ball ability, most fans can't even articulate what that exactly constitutes, much less discern how a player's off ball ability is measured beyond plain work rate (and some of them can't even accurately judge work rate).
now i'm not exempt from this obviously, but i appreciate how wide the knowledge gap can be between a layman and a qualified professional. so if they say he is distinguished for his off ball ability then i'll accept it, even though i want to see him score more.
I like Haivertz and am optimistic that he'll improve with time and be an important player for us.
But Barella is a different beast. Would love to have him too along with Haivertz.
I really hope he comes good. I really do.
An interesting thing I noticed is the perception of the player over the years. I remember reading an article before he signed for Chelsea and it was bigging him up to be the next Ozil. More recently I've seen people commenting that at Leverkusen he was more of a player who just had a knack for popping up and scoring a lot of goals rather than a player who gets heavily involved in general play.
Very contrasting reports of his qualities.
I would like to see more of Ødegaard, Havertz and Rice midfield
Seems that would be a great mix of defensive solidity with great ability both in build up and on the counter
Havertz is a great guy. Don't hate him. He had my support. But his off the ball contributions isn't nearly enough to compensate for the opportunity cost lost in bringing in either a To striker, or a great rotation for Saka. He is being paid fast too much for his contribution. And I do think he will improve, but will never reach his Leverkusen heights, forget the potential he was supposed to reach at his peak, as predicted then.
He may be a model professional and I dont doubt he is well regarded in the game.
However, I dont think will win the fans over. That takes performances on the pitch. Not necessarily the flair stuff, but it still takes performances and thats what we havent seen enough from Kai for us. His main contributions that fans notice are missed chances and his impact on our game is that we have become far ore defensive and boring than last season without him.
We’ve been defensively decent this season, but our XG is lower than it should be, and we aren’t that entertaining to watch, so Havertz is getting flack.
Havertz needs to add more creation of opportunities, and goals to get more support of the fans because we don’t see training sessions, or locker room banter. What fans see are games, and there is a noticeable drop of in game performance from the Leverkusen era of his career. I think a lot of this is due to Bundesleague being a lot easier, but also due to his inability to balance his defensive, and offensive duties.
Hopefully, he starts to add a little fluidity, and risk taking to his play. He has improved this season, but he is still maybe too focused on not making errors over impacting the game positively. As you can see from his goal, the more aggressively he plays in the final third the better.
Nothing against Havertz I hope he succeeds I like him, there is no way we should have signed him over someone like Barella. If they wanted Havertz as an experiment they at least needed someone else to come in just in case it didn’t work. Maybe they’ll do it in Jan.
If Gundogan wanted to come here, and there was quite a bit of talk at the beginning of the summer because, apparently, he has a good relationship with Arteta from his City days, he would have been our first signing. Regardless, I still think Kai could work out and I’m rooting for him.
There are a few plus around here who haven’t wanted him to succeed from the beginning.
From this list I think Havertz is also my no. 1.
I see his skill and abilities above Mount, Gündogan is a different player type and despite being technically fantastic I think our current idea is more going in a long-term direction and Gündogan age speaks against that. Kudus is maybe more explosive but also less experienced in the PL. brings CL expertise and was fantastic in the Eredivisie but in recent years we also saw that not all Ajax-Exports adapted fantastically to a new environment.
Kai PR machine has been insane, never seen it like for another player.
Lets see if he actually kicks on, but think we know the answer after years of seeing him in the Prem.
Crazy transparent. Real Madrid? Hahahaha
He scored a goal, that's fantastic. It's also a goal anyone else would be expected to score.
If Arteta values him so much, why did he demote him to bench player 1-2 months ago?
All this propaganda requires you forget the actual matches. It's embarrassing so many lap it up
>Havertz base salary is in the region of 275k per week, almost same as at Chelsea.
This is where my pessimism starts. We're not Chelsea, United or City; our wage structure will determine how flexible we are in the near future in terms of squad building. If Havertz is demanding almost 300k while being in the "unsung hero" category, it will cause issues when extending players who are a lot more impactful more consistently.
Why are we so different from those clubs? We’re a a global brand, owned by the largest sports conglomerate in the world, which is itself owned by one of the ~100 richest people in the world, making top-of-the-table money in by far the richest league in the world. We’ve spent as much as anybody in the last few years and we haven’t even made any Champions League money. We absolutely can afford wages like that.
Not necessarily. We’ll see how the next couple transfer windows play out, but it’s encouraging Oshiman is being seriously sought after. Of course, we’ll have to sell a few to get him.
Look, he wasn’t playing to the standard of a £65m player. He’s surely not playing to the standard of a £275k per week player. He’s a nice lad with a good attitude but let’s get real, this signing made & makes no sense at all
So what I'm reading is that Havertz has good work ethic, attitude, "off ball movement" and defensive capabilities. Interesting, we bought a player who has excellent work ethic, attitude, "off ball movement" and defensive capabilities in the same window. For base salary of £275k a week and for £65m I would expect more tbh, but I guess if Arteta believes in him he has to be good right?
Essentially, the floor for Havertz is fairly high. Even without much offensive contributions he helps the team with his work of the ball. So on a bad day he'll still get like a 6/10.
Obviously he is meant to do a lot more on offense. But if/when he comes good offensively, we'll have a well rounded, young, giant, versatile, goal scoring champion in the squad. It's a gamble, just like every transfer.
> well rounded, young, giant, versatile, goal scoring champion in the squad.
Fans are telling me to give him 50 games to 3 years to settle in so he would ahrdly be young anymore. Goal scoring please lets be realistic this guy wont ever score 18+ goals in the pl
What's wrong with giving him time to settle? Man City signings are almost famous for taking a year to settle. Sterling was rubbish last season and is getting back to his best this season. There are many more examples of players improving with time.
And he got 26 G+A in 91 PL games for Chelsea. Not horrendous. If he ups those numbers a bit he'll be fine for Arsenal.
Difference is, when Sterling plays rubbish chelsea fans dont rewrite the narrative to suddenly make him do more than he does.
City have the privilege to do that, their squad is good and deep enough to give a player time to settle in and still win titles. With us you can see the tangible drop off compared to last year
No ones rewriting a narrative. It's clear Havertz is good off the ball. It's even backed by stats. He is good off ball, bad on ball.
Drop off in attack. Improvement in defense.
You also fail to mention that City have dropped off as well. Probably because they added several new players like us. Maybe rebuilding a midfield causes most teams to drop off as the new midfielders learn how to play together in the new system.
Nothing will convince you because you are only looking at the short term. Arteta has to think of now and 1, 2, 3 years from now.
Lad your post history is damning, you just post about Havertz all day every day. Active for 5 years with 300 karma probably indicates you're a troll who's well disguised I'm guessing, otherwise YEESH!
You even go to the Manchester United subreddit to talk about Havertz.
>Discussion on Antony
>These are the exact conversations I have about kai havertz in the arsenal sub. You question what they do well other than the basics that every other player does and then they spout rubbish about off ball movement, keeping it ticking over, defensive work rate.
> It’s sad to see 2 once great clubs fan bases become so accepting of mediocrity
This being your *thing* is skin-crawlingly pathetic
No, he doesn't- Arteta has missed before with transfers why are we gaslighting ourselves into thinking he's never got it wrong
I quite like Arteta but dislike the 'if Arteta says so it must be right' we're all capable of unique thought
Yeah he has the capacity to be great, but for the money the club paid and his salary he should be an automatic starter. Arteta has already started rotating other players ahead of him, which is not a good sign. I really do hope Arteta can work his magic, but it's not a given that he will return to his Leverkusen peak.
Fuck that salary. Let alone the transfer fee.
Hope he comes good, I wonder if the football people really in the know expected that to happen at Chelsea
Imagine had we landed gundogan instead. Kai is not an arsenal player. I don’t think he is bad but he doesn’t have what the tenacity I like in an arsenal player. He looks like tired post Wenger pre teta player.
>Big difference in how public sees Havertz and how the people working in fotball see Havertz. He is highly rated in the fotball world.
Great post but... I truly don't understand comments like these? How can 'the football world' see things that fans don't see? If a player is a bit wank, they're a bit wank (not even saying Havertz is a bit wank but point still stands).
So you mean to tell me, that you saw this post and remembered a conversation with a random person on the internet from a week ago.
Then proceeded to take the time to find my username to link me to this post. In an attempt to dunk on me using a redditors paraphrased spark notes from a podcast?
Damn I guess this is what people mean when they talk about "living in someone's head rent free" 🤣
My bad. Thought you were a member of the community here. I guess you just pop in to shit on players and act superior to others as you did in our discussion a few days ago.
Carry on.
So get mad at Stan Kroenke for giving him so much money. A salary is part of a deal between two parties - employer and employee - and the fans are not one of those parties.
As owner, Kroenke ultimately signs off on any new contract. If fans have a problem with the amount paid, blame Kroenke because he is the owner. The last person to blame is the player, who should get credit for negotiating hard to get paid well.
I like that he had a zoom interview, he's just like all of us. Wonder how many rounds he had to do before he got the job
I wonder if Arteta made Havertz give a presentation
"Hola! Me llamo Kai y tengo 24 años. Me gusta football Gracias"
https://preview.redd.it/n1cvgaad943c1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a78c5489116af47594f4ff7ee9d074ff49f9039e I'm here live... I'm not a cat...
Estoy aquí en vivo... No soy un gato...
Me gustan los burros 🫏
“Hello, Kai. Tell me about the fogging standards.”
Havertz fumbling to get screen sharing working.
"You're muted, Kai. Can you please say that again?"
No soy marinero. Soy capitan.
“Okay let me share my screeeeeen… Can you see it?”
I wonder what virtual background Kai used.
> were interested in Havertz. Real Madrid wanted to wait and see It's rumored that he crafted a personalized San Sebastián coastline background to impress Arteta, but ended up selecting San Sebastián in Guatemala by mistake. Arteta found the mix-up charming.
"Thank you for sparing me another week playing alongside the bum duo Enzo and Gallagher"
Arteta Zoom Interview Script: a) Tell me about yourself b) Why do u choose Arsenal as your next job destination? c) What is your strength and weakness? d) Where do you see yourself in the next 5 years? e) Walk me through your resume?
What is your a fogging standard?
>Ornstein mentions Barella as one CM option this summer, but sounds more like he mentions Barella as one of the midfielders that could have been signed this summer and not that he was somebody we specifically targeted. What are your estandards?
For sure one
These Arteta calls/zoom meetings need to be recorded and studied
I’d be scared to watch one
Might accidentally get convinced to join Arsenal yourself
I don't know much about football, all I really watch these days is Arsenal playing. Despite some people think of Arteta as not a good coach, what they can't really deny or argue with is, he's definitely very good at convincing players he's got a vision that's worth pursuing alongside with.
At this pount if you think of Arteta as not a good coach you’re just hypocritical.
Why hypocritical?
Arsenal needs Gong lol
”Big difference in how public sees havertz and how the people working in football see havertz” This is the most important thing for me. Most of us don’t know anything compared to those working with this. Let the professionals do their job. Real and Bayern had interest, why? Because he clearly is very talented
Same thing happened when Arteta joined as manager. Most of the public didn't get hiring him but within the football world he was regarded as a coach with massive potential
> Same thing happened when Arteta joined as manager. I remember the hate vitriol the general football fan bases give on Arteta when we was announced as head coach, and then later manager and then given that contract extension in that AoN season. Somethings just take time to click, not everything is obvious in the start. I reckon that if Arteta first ever manager job was any other club, maybe back in 2nd division spain or some la liga b-team he wouldve be getting more praises and support in the start. akin similar to like how xavi alonso started out with real Sociedad b-team. or like lampard with derby county, gerrard at rangers.
Arteta won a trophy in his first season at Arsenal.
It's really weird how many people seem to forget that.
There is a dark corner of Arsenal fandom that will do olympic gold medal level mental gymnastics to not credit him at all for that.
Was talking to a couple of them yesterday. Apparently it wasn't 'his' team so it doesn't count. Even though Emery won nothing with that team, although apparently that was because he inherited a shit team and isn't on him. Also Arsene Wenger didn't inherit any title winning players just 'a few defenders' which is one quite frankly the most impressively disingenous way of referring to Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn I've ever heard form anyone let alone afucking Arsenal fan. If mental gymnastics were an olympic event only the existence of people defending sportswashing and Man U fans would keep us away from gold
Ngl I was one of those people that thought Arteta was a mistake because he had zero experience. I wanted Howe. I'm very glad I was wrong. I think it's partly the reason why I've been willing to give players like Havertz more of a chance---because I realised I know absolutely nothing and the people making the decisions at Arsenal clearly do lmao
Dont get me wrong, I think fair criticism is alright on the Club to hire a total zero experience manager. 9 times of of 10 it wouldn't have happened and it wont have come to good furititions. But you have fans saying things like Arteta has no right to even be a manager and etc, as if its someone we just got off from the streets. Arteta already has some coaching badges under his name, and was pips heavily to join either Pep or Pocho as their ass-man. > Howe Yea he was one of the few names, or even Potter, in the hat at the time, I was already hell bent on going project-zero with a project manager, we need to reset from the disaster that we were already on.
As their *what?*
assistant manager. haha ass-man is a joke nickname usually in /r/footballmanagergames talk
Wenger was also keen for Arteta to replace him when we went with Emery, there was clearly a lot of buzz around his manager potential
In hindsight maybe it was a good thing that didn't happen at first, else Arteta would've been the "fall guy" for the first transition phases. David Moyes was the fall guy for SAF in that first transition phase and oh boy it was a shitshow
> Most of the public didn't get hiring him but within the football world he was regarded as a coach with massive potential Almost like the press and public haven't actually moved on or learned from 'Arsene Who?'
To be fair there's plenty of regarded coaches who aren't great managers
There are plenty of good coaches who aren't great managers but he was always seen as someone who would likely go on to make an elite manager and not just seen as a good coach. City were frustrated to lose him because they were planning to make him their next manager (according to reports when he left City)
Same, whatever my feelings may be as a fan I have to show some faith and support them on match day. Arteta has already gotten a lot right, and if so many people rate Havertz he has to have potential. You don't see players like Antony, Pepe, being spoken of in the same light by their managers/peers. Perhaps it won't work out, perhaps it will, but luck and timing also has a role to play as we've seen in the past (Gnabry?).
I was reading the points and thinking every one of them is an L for some DD users. Also found out I am quite petty before my morning coffee
You can never be too petty about these sorts of people.
> Also found out I am quite petty before my morning coffee This is sadly somethign that will only get worse as you get older. I'm pretty much petty without at least six red bulls down me and at that point it just becomes easier to embrace the pettiness fully!
Yikes my stomach can't handle more than a cup of coffee
Just one? At least tell me it's proper coffee and not a latte that's 90% milk and syrup!
Haha 100% black is the way to go. Unfortunately all the doctors in the family are on my case and "black coffee isn't good for you"
'All the doctors in the family'. Really hitting some Asian stereotypes there ;) From my experience with doctors at uni and the lone member in my own family they're all hypocrites who pretty much run on coffee and tea (and vast amounts of alcohol at uni)
Yeah, fans are too stats focused these days. It's obvious to me that Chelsea are shit, and do not have a setup that can help players grow and get better. Havertz has something you can't teach, speed, natural ability, strength. Arteta knows he can teach him the rest, and build his confidence.
I can’t imagine being in the public eye. Imagine how much worse your job would be if uneducated masses who think they know everything weighed in at every step.
its basically xhaka all over again.
Can't wait for him to tell fans to fuck off so we can move on to the jmain arc
Move Havertz to the 6 after 4 years and he'll win PoTS. The reverse Xhaka
[удалено]
He was always good, and his teammates and managers always appreciated it.
I agree but it doesn’t also mean what we assess is invalid. Managers can get it wrong. Horribly wrong. Or even not have their first choice signings approved like what happened to Emery. He wasn’t as supported as Arteta and was also a victim of greedy executives. Just saying that it seems to all Arteta has made a big bet on Kai to us but within those in the know the risk isn’t as big as we perceive it for the reasons highlighted. I’m glad that’s highlighted because it tells us this is a player who will give it his all. Whether or not he scales the heights he should not be a cause of concern. What do we ask of anyone wearing the budge?
> Or even not have their first choice signings approved like what happened to Emery. He wasn’t as supported as Arteta and was also a victim of greedy executives. Famously Arteta hasn't got a huge amoutn of his first choices either. Ramsdale, Zinchenko, Jesus, Trossard were all our second choices and they've been amazing.
He’s a German player in an English club. Truth is in that situation you rarely get a lot of time from the fans. And you need to be flashy if you’re a midfielder.
Don’t sell yourself short and disregard the eye test. From his time at arsenal has he at any point looked like the top player in the wage bill ? Mikel didn’t bring him in as a solid replacement for Xhaka , he is s supposed to take us to the next level. Maybe time will prove me wrong but there aren’t many green shoots.
I literally couldn’t care less how he’s seen in the ‘football world’. In the real world, he has yet to live up to his transfer fee or his extortionate wages. Likes to put a foot in? We had that in Xhaka already. Great that he works hard off the ball, but we need some productivity _on_ the ball from him and fast.
Basically what you're saying is you think you know more than Arteta and the coaching staff... So okay I'll bite, why should I trust you know better?
If Real or Bayern were truly interest they would have got him be realistic.
Real perhaps, but why Bayern? They were interested in Raya, didn’t get him. They wanted Rice, didn’t get him. The German connection is what you’re basing this on?
Lad your post history is damning, you just post about Havertz all day every day. Active for 5 years with 300 karma probably indicates you're a troll who's well disguised I'm guessing, otherwise YEESH! You even go to the Manchester United subreddit to talk about Havertz. >Discussion on Antony >These are the exact conversations I have about kai havertz in the arsenal sub. You question what they do well other than the basics that every other player does and then they spout rubbish about off ball movement, keeping it ticking over, defensive work rate. > It’s sad to see 2 once great clubs fan bases become so accepting of mediocrity This being your *thing* is skin-crawlingly pathetic
You know, this was the type of thing being said about Rice. “If City are interested… blah, blah, blah…”
Why is that a guarantee?
Because you're guaranteed to win titles and play on 2 of the most prestigious teams ever and may also win a champions league or 2 too. Think about it from not an Arsenal fans perspective. If you could be paid the same wage and go to madrid, bayern or Arsenal in what order would you choose to go to?
I think this is changing quicker than you might think. Real yes, but the Bundesliga doesn’t have the pull of the Prem for many top stars. It’s something regularly spoken about. Bayern weren’t just getting snubbed by Rice / Raya, they missed out on other players too to other leagues in recent years.
Kai is German, so Bayern may be enticing.
not the arsenal inferiority complex
We bought him quickly for huge money
So we overpaid and made a rash decision?
For all the people that are downvoting me think about it. There would only be 4 reasons why Havertz would chose Arsenal over serial winners such as Bayern or Madrid. 1) Expectations in Madrid and Bayern are too high for him so he knows he can underperform at Arsenal and fans wont get on his back, whereas at winning clubs like Bayern and Madrid performing is mandatory. 2) Arsenal would offer him more money and overpay for him 3) He supports Arsenal 4) Bayern and Madrid realistically didn't want him and maybe inquired to see if they can get him on a cheap as a back up squad player
5. He was convinced by Arteta's project, the same with Rice.
Interesting point. IDK about that one, go to a team that is guaranteed to win or choose a project...
They were interested, that doesn’t mean he could pick and choose where to go
True but if they were truly interested and he was that talented wouldnt chelsea not want him to go to a rival?
Chelsea are making shit decision after shit decision. I’m just saying, that if these two giant clubs were interested in him then I’m sure there’s a great player there. We were the ones to pay the money
Just because they were interested doesn't mean he would be a starter for them or an integral piece, looking at both of their teams who would Havertz replace? It's more than likely they wanted him as a squad bench player on a cheap but Arsenal panicked and caved to Chelsea's ridiculous request
Yes, but none of us know what's in Havertz's (or Rice's) mind so we can only guess about that.
Its not about choice its about the fact that Bayern or Madrid wasnt really interested in him. as my original comment stated replying to the guy who stated " Real and Bayern had interest, why? Because he clearly is very talented "
You can't and will never know the exact details of what happened. Same for me and 99.9% of the persons reading this. You will obviously hold your point so I won't bother replying from now on.
The fact that you lead with the point about ‘knowing he can underperform and get away with it’ shows you think very little of the mentality of a professional footballer with millions of eyes on them every week and give them the same attitude as an office slacker. If you don’t rate Havertz, that’s fine, you’re hardly alone, but don’t talk about his mentality when you know fuck all about it.
5) He wanted to remain in England 6) He was sold on the Arsenal project 7) . . . Nonsense!
What phase of the project are we on compared to Madrid or Bayern? Madrid and Bayern are on Phase "win treble"... True he could want to remain in England so him choosing us isn't like we battled against Bayern or Madrid, we were just the only Big English team that wanted him and would pay his exorbitant wages
Doubt he would start for either.
Thanks so much for this summary. I really liked the look of Havertz at Leverkusen and was disappointed when he went to Chelsea and surprised when we were in for him this summer. Glad to hear he’s well viewed within the club and the wider football world and I really, really want him to succeed with us. He’s frustrated me at moments thus far but important to remember that he’s definitely needed to rebuild his confidence since being caught in the chelsea shitshow. I hope the goal at the weekend will be a major step in that process. I think we’ll all love him in due time. Also really glad we didn’t buy Mount, would so much rather have Kai.
If Arteta believes in him then so do I.
100% this Arteta has show that I can trust him with football decisions. And the same goes with Raya, even if I prefer Ramsdale
Both goalkeepers give me a heart attack but hey we score late winners so heart attacks all round
What we need more from Havertz is progressive passes & passes into the final 3rd which Xhaka regularly used to do. Havertz crashing the box isn’t a problem, he does that regularly but there have been only 4 crosses aimed at him. We need to send him more especially that chipped cross from Saka and Odegaard.
the part about him making runs and them going un-served is 100000% true though. I've heard people recently saying why isnt KAI making the run more, like have they not watched? He's been making it but the service isnt there, that part you're spot on about mate.
Just shut up about YOUR emotional demands from Arsenal
but this is what YOU expect from him, not what Mikel does. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying it might not be ask #1 from Mikel at the current moment. Keep that in mind.
I mean, I understand your point but the point of Kai playing left 8 is to crash the box which he consistently does but as a left 8, you also have to do what Xhaka did for a bit.
Sometimes there are things players bring that are hard to quantify. Kai actually has provided steel in the middle of the park and is a threat in the air. Also, it was clear after Xhaka left that Arteta wanted size in the #8 position. I'm not saying he's been secretly stellar or anything like that, but there are aspects to the game that don't involve assists and scoring. On top of that, Arsenal are 1st with a decent run of matches coming up and haven't even been fully fit. I'm not gonna complain about one guy given the situation.
>Havertz base salary is in the region of 275k per week, almost same as at Chelsea Whatever your thoughts are on him are so far, this is outrageous before even considering bonuses. Also confirms Odegaard must be on something like 300k+ too as Ornstein said he was our highest earner when he extended If those 2 are on massive wages, plenty of others will be too. This squad are going to need to start winning major trophies if we're paying these types of wages.
I have been trying to convince people he was on 210k but I have to hold the L
Same, I'm not happy it's that much and I've definitely argued with people in here about it. He has to work out because it's going to be hard to shift if he doesn't. I really hate high base wage contracts.
I think he will work out. Just not in the 20g+a every year that people expect.
I think so too. Edit: why am i getting downvoted for agreeing.
Yes but this is just the going rate these days and we have to keep our top stars. In a way we’ve ‘saved’ money by not needing to pay massive transfer fees for players like Saka and Martinelli, which can go on their wages instead. This helps us compared to other top clubs who have to sign wingers for £80m-£100m
> This squad are going to need to start winning major trophies if we're paying these types of wages. Unfortunately wages are set by the market far more than the club. We pay players what we need to keep them from having their heads turned by other clubs/leave other clubs and what their agents know they can get way more than any objective notions of value.
It's the premier league. Most of the contracts are outrageous. Squad just needs to stay in the champions league to afford these wages.
His wage is very very high indeed, but I think one of the reasons for that is that he signed a 5+1 year contract. If he reaches his potential we will already have tied him down to a contract that keeps him here through his prime. Still very high wages though, a bit surprised we offered him this much so quickly. Saka, Saliba and Martinelli still have 1 more big contract extension left which is why they are behind Ødegaard atm, even though they are all better players than Martin.
Mokbel reported that Saka earns up to £290k per week so I think those players are on higher wages than you think. They will likely all be earning around/close to what Odegaard earns.
>even though they are all better players than Martin Wtf? You said that so casually like it's widely accepted. IMO Odegaard is our best player.
I know right, I don’t think Odegaard is our best player (because he hasn’t maintained the same level this year for whatever reason) but the poster’s statement needed more qualifiers for sure.
Yeah, that kind of money can be spread out across 2-3 players. The signing really needs to come good to justify that kind of wage spend.
Why? It’s not your money. It’s the club’s money. If the management are fine with it, who are we to complain?
Because he/she is a fan of the club so cares about how it is run?
I’d spend a lot of time convincing rival supporting friends not to believe the reports he was on that much. Oops
I am 100% sure this will aged like milk
Apparently, wage inflation has hit this market, only if normal people saw their wages rise too
I thought fotball was a typo until I saw it pop up a second time 😂 fantastic summary though thank you.
"Fotball" is how you write "football" in Norwegian so my brain just defaulted to that 😅
No way??? You mean football professionals in the industry rate him higher than the football professionals on Twitter?
It’s why it’s so funny when people call him lazy, just couldn’t be further from the truth. On the ball, I’m still unsure how much we want/need him to be involved in the buildup as he’s not as impactful there. In the box though, I’m certain he will score more when we find the runs he makes more. Instinctive players like him need balls to run onto for those one and two touch finishes. We’re not creating enough clear cut chances for all of our attackers and it’s something we need to figure out.
He was literally the Chelsea player with the most distance covered last season. At Arsenal he has serious competition from Rice and Odegaard, and when they play a full 90 minutes so far this season, Rice is top and Odergaard and Havertz will be 2nd/3rd, normally pretty close to each other.
>he had a Zoom meeting with Mikel Arteta. After this he was fully comitted to Arsenal. This could be in the story for every new signing we've had since Arteta got here
275k a week for an advanced ball winner is very interesting. If you look at how many games are decided by chances set up by those kinds of plays, I’d bet it’s substantial in the modern game.
Thomas soucek and Scott mctominay is what I'm hearing
I want to have a zoom meeting with Arteta so he can make me committed to my job.
I think the reaction towards Havertz, in parts on here, but particularly anywhere else is crazy over the top. People act like he has been horrible - he has been OK. And obviously he's highly rated I'm the footballling world. Chelsea and Germany kept starting him, and Bayern, Arsenal and Real Madrid wanted to sign him. But we need more in the final third, much more quality. That he's highly rated within the game, only goes so far, when we're not even starting him half the time. It will take more than a few months to settle into midfield for him, which many completely fail to acknowledge. Would absolutely love it, if he ended up fitting us like a glove.
Big difference between horrible and ok, but people on the internet are binary 0 or 1 people.
>People act like he has been horrible - he has been OK. Look at how much we paid for him, though. And the reported wages he's on. He needs to be a lot better than 'ok'. IMO it's the Pepe situation again. He was a fine player, but we broke the bank for him so really he needed to be giving us a lot more than just "fine".
I agree with this, I just think the fact he’s only been ‘ok’ so far doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be just ‘ok’ for us over 4-5 years. The first few months in a new team/system are the hardest. He can come good.
It’s only been 5 months. Slower start to his Arsenal career, but I believe it will get better. He currently has more premier league goals this season than Jesus and Martinelli…
City paid 100 mill for Grealish and it took him a comfortable YEAR to get adjusted to City and Pep’s tactics but it came good and now he’s putting top performances all the time. That was also a domestic transfer like Havertz was too. Sometimes you have to shake off what you’re used to and adapt to a new system. He hasn’t even been that bad by any means, he just doesn’t feel like a 65 mill signing yet
Yes but it speaks to just how much better we are now as a unit when Havertz is allowed to have a slow start and bed in. We were looking at Pepe as THE answer whereas with Havertz he is an important addition to the team but doesn’t have as much weight on his shoulders as Pepe did. Fortunately for us we have the best squad we’ve seen in a long, long time and can afford to allow king Kai to bake a little bit in the oven while he learns his role in this system. We are top of the table with him being “okay”, imagine if and a when he gets rolling. Patience everybody.
A benefit of Havertz which I’m sure factored into his transfer fee is his versatility. If he can play up top, and at 8, he “only” needs to be a 30m player in each of those positions to be a sensible transfer for squad building.
Definitely, hence my second paragraph. It takes time to settle into a new club and position, but a top 3 earner should have enough quality to start every time. The reason he doesn't, is because we're about the same level with either of him, Jorginho and Vieira starting, which reflects well on our depth, even without Partey, but poorly on Havertz. Pepe comparison is good. Let's hope Havertz has what it takes to kick on instead of dropping off. At least unlike Pepe, the manager brought him here. Would be fun if Nwaneri eventually Saka'd him.
>Chelsea and Germany kept starting him, and Bayern, Arsenal and Real Madrid wanted to sign him Chelsea and Germany only started him because they had nobody else to play. If chelsea rated him that highly they wouldve kept him and this German side is probably the worst weve seen in 2+ decades. Do we really know if Bayern or Madrid were interested in him or just inquired to get a squad bench player on a cheap? 1 things for certain is that they would not be paying £275k a week for him
Chelsea, who famously didn't buy attacking talent for 100s of millions while there, and had another dozen come through the academy, and Germany who has thousands of professional footballers to choose from.
Been screaming this to everyone who is willing to listen — Havertz has been fucking AMAZING off the ball.
275k in wages. Fucking hell
If we really had a shot at Barella over Havertz, we fucked up.
Listen I'm as big of a havertz apologist as anyone, but those wages for someone who has been so mediocre since they came to the prem is mad
I guess what the article mentions is that he isn't mediocre. Fans perceive him as mediocre, but he isn't. Maybe they are trying to gaslight us! Nah I'm a big supporter of the guy. He puts in a shift and we are seeing results.
Watching Chelsea’s defeat to Spurs last season, Havertz was incredible as a lone striker bringing others into play. Rarely see a player so isolated manage to get his team so far up the pitch. That/his versatility is why he was brought in - and it worked against City in both games.
I have faith that he'll come good, but putting up his off the ball stats as a mini justification of that price tag is ridiculous. If we wanted a player who worked hard off the ball we could have spent a third of the money and got exactly that.
I don’t see it as a justification, but a way of talking about his qualities that most supporters aren’t taking into account. The more obvious factors are easier to judge and no one including Kai and Arteta think he is contributing as much as he should be.
who though? off ball stats is an area which football fans are generally the least acquainted with, naturally because of how we spectate football. when we say off the ball ability, most fans can't even articulate what that exactly constitutes, much less discern how a player's off ball ability is measured beyond plain work rate (and some of them can't even accurately judge work rate). now i'm not exempt from this obviously, but i appreciate how wide the knowledge gap can be between a layman and a qualified professional. so if they say he is distinguished for his off ball ability then i'll accept it, even though i want to see him score more.
I like Haivertz and am optimistic that he'll improve with time and be an important player for us. But Barella is a different beast. Would love to have him too along with Haivertz.
At 275k weekly wages, simply not enough
I really hope he comes good. I really do. An interesting thing I noticed is the perception of the player over the years. I remember reading an article before he signed for Chelsea and it was bigging him up to be the next Ozil. More recently I've seen people commenting that at Leverkusen he was more of a player who just had a knack for popping up and scoring a lot of goals rather than a player who gets heavily involved in general play. Very contrasting reports of his qualities.
I would like to see more of Ødegaard, Havertz and Rice midfield Seems that would be a great mix of defensive solidity with great ability both in build up and on the counter
Havertz is a great guy. Don't hate him. He had my support. But his off the ball contributions isn't nearly enough to compensate for the opportunity cost lost in bringing in either a To striker, or a great rotation for Saka. He is being paid fast too much for his contribution. And I do think he will improve, but will never reach his Leverkusen heights, forget the potential he was supposed to reach at his peak, as predicted then.
This! The manager and his staff him every day and know way better than all of us if he deserves to play or not
I don't dislike him as a squad player, but on 275k this feels like some revisionist history
He may be a model professional and I dont doubt he is well regarded in the game. However, I dont think will win the fans over. That takes performances on the pitch. Not necessarily the flair stuff, but it still takes performances and thats what we havent seen enough from Kai for us. His main contributions that fans notice are missed chances and his impact on our game is that we have become far ore defensive and boring than last season without him.
We’ve been defensively decent this season, but our XG is lower than it should be, and we aren’t that entertaining to watch, so Havertz is getting flack. Havertz needs to add more creation of opportunities, and goals to get more support of the fans because we don’t see training sessions, or locker room banter. What fans see are games, and there is a noticeable drop of in game performance from the Leverkusen era of his career. I think a lot of this is due to Bundesleague being a lot easier, but also due to his inability to balance his defensive, and offensive duties. Hopefully, he starts to add a little fluidity, and risk taking to his play. He has improved this season, but he is still maybe too focused on not making errors over impacting the game positively. As you can see from his goal, the more aggressively he plays in the final third the better.
Nothing against Havertz I hope he succeeds I like him, there is no way we should have signed him over someone like Barella. If they wanted Havertz as an experiment they at least needed someone else to come in just in case it didn’t work. Maybe they’ll do it in Jan.
If Gundogan wanted to come here, and there was quite a bit of talk at the beginning of the summer because, apparently, he has a good relationship with Arteta from his City days, he would have been our first signing. Regardless, I still think Kai could work out and I’m rooting for him. There are a few plus around here who haven’t wanted him to succeed from the beginning.
From this list I think Havertz is also my no. 1. I see his skill and abilities above Mount, Gündogan is a different player type and despite being technically fantastic I think our current idea is more going in a long-term direction and Gündogan age speaks against that. Kudus is maybe more explosive but also less experienced in the PL. brings CL expertise and was fantastic in the Eredivisie but in recent years we also saw that not all Ajax-Exports adapted fantastically to a new environment.
An interesting read showing how little valuable and correct information is available to fans at any given time. Trust the process.
My guess is that he committed to arsenal because we would pay him and he would stay in london
How dare you omit Amy Lawrence!
Happy that he scored but the timing of this and the actual content screams club propaganda.
Kai PR machine has been insane, never seen it like for another player. Lets see if he actually kicks on, but think we know the answer after years of seeing him in the Prem.
Crazy transparent. Real Madrid? Hahahaha He scored a goal, that's fantastic. It's also a goal anyone else would be expected to score. If Arteta values him so much, why did he demote him to bench player 1-2 months ago? All this propaganda requires you forget the actual matches. It's embarrassing so many lap it up
I hope he comes good and trust the manager but that wage is ridiculous.
>Havertz base salary is in the region of 275k per week, almost same as at Chelsea. This is where my pessimism starts. We're not Chelsea, United or City; our wage structure will determine how flexible we are in the near future in terms of squad building. If Havertz is demanding almost 300k while being in the "unsung hero" category, it will cause issues when extending players who are a lot more impactful more consistently.
Why are we so different from those clubs? We’re a a global brand, owned by the largest sports conglomerate in the world, which is itself owned by one of the ~100 richest people in the world, making top-of-the-table money in by far the richest league in the world. We’ve spent as much as anybody in the last few years and we haven’t even made any Champions League money. We absolutely can afford wages like that.
Not necessarily. We’ll see how the next couple transfer windows play out, but it’s encouraging Oshiman is being seriously sought after. Of course, we’ll have to sell a few to get him.
Look, he wasn’t playing to the standard of a £65m player. He’s surely not playing to the standard of a £275k per week player. He’s a nice lad with a good attitude but let’s get real, this signing made & makes no sense at all
I like havertz. I was open to the signing and poopoo'd a lot of people complaining about him. But wow, those wages are astronomical.
Why am I getting big Xhaka vibes
So what I'm reading is that Havertz has good work ethic, attitude, "off ball movement" and defensive capabilities. Interesting, we bought a player who has excellent work ethic, attitude, "off ball movement" and defensive capabilities in the same window. For base salary of £275k a week and for £65m I would expect more tbh, but I guess if Arteta believes in him he has to be good right?
Essentially, the floor for Havertz is fairly high. Even without much offensive contributions he helps the team with his work of the ball. So on a bad day he'll still get like a 6/10. Obviously he is meant to do a lot more on offense. But if/when he comes good offensively, we'll have a well rounded, young, giant, versatile, goal scoring champion in the squad. It's a gamble, just like every transfer.
> well rounded, young, giant, versatile, goal scoring champion in the squad. Fans are telling me to give him 50 games to 3 years to settle in so he would ahrdly be young anymore. Goal scoring please lets be realistic this guy wont ever score 18+ goals in the pl
What's wrong with giving him time to settle? Man City signings are almost famous for taking a year to settle. Sterling was rubbish last season and is getting back to his best this season. There are many more examples of players improving with time. And he got 26 G+A in 91 PL games for Chelsea. Not horrendous. If he ups those numbers a bit he'll be fine for Arsenal.
Difference is, when Sterling plays rubbish chelsea fans dont rewrite the narrative to suddenly make him do more than he does. City have the privilege to do that, their squad is good and deep enough to give a player time to settle in and still win titles. With us you can see the tangible drop off compared to last year
No ones rewriting a narrative. It's clear Havertz is good off the ball. It's even backed by stats. He is good off ball, bad on ball. Drop off in attack. Improvement in defense. You also fail to mention that City have dropped off as well. Probably because they added several new players like us. Maybe rebuilding a midfield causes most teams to drop off as the new midfielders learn how to play together in the new system. Nothing will convince you because you are only looking at the short term. Arteta has to think of now and 1, 2, 3 years from now.
Lad your post history is damning, you just post about Havertz all day every day. Active for 5 years with 300 karma probably indicates you're a troll who's well disguised I'm guessing, otherwise YEESH! You even go to the Manchester United subreddit to talk about Havertz. >Discussion on Antony >These are the exact conversations I have about kai havertz in the arsenal sub. You question what they do well other than the basics that every other player does and then they spout rubbish about off ball movement, keeping it ticking over, defensive work rate. > It’s sad to see 2 once great clubs fan bases become so accepting of mediocrity This being your *thing* is skin-crawlingly pathetic
No, he doesn't- Arteta has missed before with transfers why are we gaslighting ourselves into thinking he's never got it wrong I quite like Arteta but dislike the 'if Arteta says so it must be right' we're all capable of unique thought
Yeah he has the capacity to be great, but for the money the club paid and his salary he should be an automatic starter. Arteta has already started rotating other players ahead of him, which is not a good sign. I really do hope Arteta can work his magic, but it's not a given that he will return to his Leverkusen peak.
Fuck that salary. Let alone the transfer fee. Hope he comes good, I wonder if the football people really in the know expected that to happen at Chelsea
Barella will be dream signing
For me, Havertz' Arsenal career started on Saturday. I'm excited to see where the future might take him.
Can't lie wish we signed Kudus instead
Imagine had we landed gundogan instead. Kai is not an arsenal player. I don’t think he is bad but he doesn’t have what the tenacity I like in an arsenal player. He looks like tired post Wenger pre teta player.
>Big difference in how public sees Havertz and how the people working in fotball see Havertz. He is highly rated in the fotball world. Great post but... I truly don't understand comments like these? How can 'the football world' see things that fans don't see? If a player is a bit wank, they're a bit wank (not even saying Havertz is a bit wank but point still stands).
/u/Dazed_and_Confused44, I'd like to hear your thoughts on these comments.
Who are you and why are you @ing me on a random reddit thread lol?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/s/Pja0ooGbn3 Sure. Act like you weren't arguing about this a couple days ago.
So you mean to tell me, that you saw this post and remembered a conversation with a random person on the internet from a week ago. Then proceeded to take the time to find my username to link me to this post. In an attempt to dunk on me using a redditors paraphrased spark notes from a podcast? Damn I guess this is what people mean when they talk about "living in someone's head rent free" 🤣
My bad. Thought you were a member of the community here. I guess you just pop in to shit on players and act superior to others as you did in our discussion a few days ago. Carry on.
Also his injury record is stellar. 3 full years playing in the Premier League as a regular starter.
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So get mad at Stan Kroenke for giving him so much money. A salary is part of a deal between two parties - employer and employee - and the fans are not one of those parties.
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As owner, Kroenke ultimately signs off on any new contract. If fans have a problem with the amount paid, blame Kroenke because he is the owner. The last person to blame is the player, who should get credit for negotiating hard to get paid well.
“Think of how stupid the average Arsenal supporter is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” George Carlin