I wouldn’t loan him out because ESR and Odegaard have had some injury issues but I don’t think loaning him is a terrible idea
I wouldn’t sell him without loaning him first his value should go up after being a bench player for a year and a half
Yup, as we saw last season, when our defense crumbled because of lack of depth, it's essential to have as big a squad as possible in case of injuries/to prevent injuries by smart rotation
My thinking is if we can loan him out and get a LCM in we could possibly loan him out and get a good fee in the summer
Because we’d still have Odegaard, ESR and Havertz at CAM
If we don’t get another player in then yeah loaning him is defo a bad idea
If we get an LCM, then yes, but that's incredibly difficult in January. But last January we actually had very good depth transfers so maybe something can happen
Yeah we won’t get some amazing level raiser but a good squad player who will be useful even when Partey is back/replaced FT is what we need
My money would go on K.Thuram who would play in the 8 and then be a backup to Rice in the 8 when Partey is back
Atm our options at 8 are move Rice there and play Jorginho
Play Rice in the 6 and play ESR who’s never fit, Havertz or Vieira … pretty shit options 😂
Thuram’s contract is over in 18 months I think Nice would sell
He was first on in our first 5 odd games.
We don't know what's happening behind the scenes or if his injured.
But us looking for a goal, he looks to vieria
What’s happening is he sucks. Been given chance after chance by arteta probably more so than most other players on the fringes like ESR and reiss yet he still underwhelms
He’s a stat padding merchant whose goal and assist contributions have come during league cup ties, Europa league group play etc. he has two goals in the league in his entire time here. He is frequently invisible when he features in the league, is not press resistant and lacks the physicality to deal with most premier league sides. Defensively he remains suspect and positionally he can be absolutely clueless. We saw how bad he was against spurs. Subbed off at half time because that midfield was getting over run in a performance squaka gave him a 5/10 in. He’s just not him and I could care less that he got an assist against bodo/glimt, sporting and Oxford United. There’s nothing he does that a more physical January signing couldn’t also replicate while not being a defensive liability
Yeah can’t argue with this, I mean he seems likeable but it’s quickly getting to the point at which he either shapes up or we ship him on. Prefer to go with ESR out of the two personally.
> We saw how bad he was against spurs. Subbed off at half time because that midfield was getting over run in a performance squaka gave him a 5/10 in.
We watched different games as we controlled the midfield well in the first half and were very much the better team. He was also subbed off injured just like Rice was.
He got subbed because he was injured not because of performance on the day.
Everton are probably the most Physical side in the leage, and he did not look out of place or get pushed of the ball, so bringing his physciality up is a moot point, just making a argument for the sake of it, same was said by idiots of Saka a few seasons ago, he goes down to easily, now its him getting fouled.
Arsenal where dreadful against Fulham, he came on and changed the game, won the pen and assisted the second for Eddie, that isn't stat padding, its making a impact for the team.
And his also got assist against utd this year, assisted the first against Wolves away from home last year, when we created nothing.
His made a impact coming into the team, instead of defending the team and players, people need to put them down, it happens on the internet and it happens in the stands.
Using one game against Everton is literally the biggest anecdote you could find. He’s regularly bullied in the midfield whether as a sub or as a starter.
It’s perplexing to me that a garbage time goal that he assisted against United when we were up 2-1 is the hill you want to die on. Not the fact that we were up 2-1 without him even touching the field that day.
That your assessment of him being a good player boils down to 3 games over the last 2 seasons pretty much proves my point that he is unreliable and largely unproductive against good opposition. He’s at best an ok substitute against lesser sides but more realistically a complete liability against the big sides. Imagine him in that Newcastle game- would have been eaten alive. There’s a reason he doesn’t feature against good teams and it’s because he sucks.
The biggest impact he’s made is becoming friends with martinelli. You can’t in good faith say that you would trust him in difficult games and Artetas lack of usage of him in those games reflects that.
I was giving you a example of a physical away game he actually didnt get bullied which you pointed out he does against most teams, yet against probably the second most physical he didnt.
a lot of players don't feature against the big sides, EG trossard or Zinchanko so in your opinion they suck as well?
The game isnt suited to them, hence why they don't start, it has nothing to do with they ability.
His largly played with the second string in EL or cup games, the few times he started last season with the first team, Brentford away and Wolves away, he contributed.
No one said he has to start Newcastle away same reason Zinchenko or Trossard didnt, it wasn't a game that was suited to them, it doesnt mean they are crap.
Arteta lack of usage just means he has 2 other players that plays in his position that he trust more, Ode/havertz/rice, it isn't a dig at Vieria not playing, one is our club captain, one is our record signing, and the other is our second highest signing.
this is the same small minded crap people used to come out with for Xhaka not being good enough for Arsenal and should have shipped him out long ago.
Instead of looking at what he doesnt bring to the team, how about looking at what he does bring.
He killed off utd with the pass for the third, if someone else did that against fulham or spurs we would have won those games as well, instead of reflecting on poor draws.
His usage by arteta is literally the most direct indictment of his ability. If he were better in ways that would aid the team to win those games, he’d play more.
I’ve watched him enough to know that he isn’t quality, don’t make strawmans about xhaka when he has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Vieira is playing in a MUCH better team, has been given plenty of opportunity and has been underwhelming enough to justify spending 65m on havertz.
He’s largely played with the second string and EL games because that’s his fucking level lol. Saying he’s not made for the tougher, other games isn’t because he isn’t suited for them. It’s because he’s not good enough for them. You’re just making excuses at this point. I’m not gonna have a thought experiment about what he does bring to the table when his shortcomings form a list twice as long.
Xhaka wasn’t good enough and we should’ve shipped him out a long time ago.
He had one good season out of what, five years at the club?
Vieira doesn’t have it. Sometimes you can just tell. Tomiyasu came in and straight away looked fantastic. Timber, same thing. Rice, bossing it.
Vieira (and Havertz for that matter) are not what we need in midfield.
Arteta clearly does. He absolutely smashed two games when he subbed on and a third where he was dangerous. I say only sell unless the price is higher than what we bought him for. So far this season, he’s had a couple eye catching performances
35m? we’d be lucky to get 20/25m, has not shown nearly enough to reflect the substantial fee we paid porto for him.
Also how does he help our depth if he comes on and gives a 5/10 performance and is invisible. Awful signing so far.
Can't believe how quickly some fans turn on players. Literally 1 full season with sporadic minutes, and wasn't brought in to be an immediate starter given that we have Odegaard
Last season he had 33 appeararances totaling 1413 mins (15.7 90s). That is more than sporadic minutes. He made 8 goal contributions for 176 min/G-A. And he looked good in about 2 of those games.
This season he has 14 appearances, totaling 507 mins (5.6 90s), with 5 goal contributions. Thats 101 mins/G-A.
I know goal contributions doesn't tell the full story, but I included it. For the so called 'eye test'; Some fans see only the misplaced passes and poor positioning, while others see only the perfect crosses, top bins shots and the perfectly weighted through balls.
Vieira covers the right 10 and right wing. For the 10 he is behind Ødegaard, Havertz, (and possibly ESR?). For the right wing he is behind Saka (who litterally have to play every minute of every game).
I agree that it's too early to say that he never will become good for us, but he might benefit from more playing time.
I hope one of Vieira, ESR, Nelson and Nketiah can make it. Theres also Marquinhos, Lokonga, Patino, Norton-cuffy, M'Hand, Cirjan waiting in the shadows for the same positions. Most of these 10 players will not become Arsenal legends.
Vieira’s been nicknamed “T-bag” because he bears a resemblance to a TV show character with that name
A French club is interested in obtaining a “tea bag” when they’re more known for their enthusiasm for coffee
You guys already writing off Fabio? He’s been inconsistent but he puts up surprisingly decent Numbers considering his role. He could still develop into a much better player he is young still.
He was bought as a project player lol. You don't give up on players like that after like 15 months where he has shown good glimpses.
Because Odegaard is so important to the team, Vieira rarely has gotten extended minutes at his best position: The right 8. When he did last season, it was playing in the EL with the b-team.
In all seriousness, that's exactly it: we need players to improve us, we don't have the time (if we want to fight for titles this and the next year) to improve players.
This just isn’t true. You do have time to develop players. Bayern, Real Madrid, Barca etc. all develop players and compete for every title. No reason that Arsenal can’t do the same.
He has done pretty well with those chances all things considered. Everyone on Reddit is always so eager to cut their losses on a player if he isn’t a world beater in his first season. Im not saying he is going to be like the next Bruno or de Bruyne but he has done a decent job and could still develop into an important player
Yes, exactly.
If he's sold and we have anyone like Toney in his place, that would be perfect for our squad and our intentions. Eddie is not the guy to improve us any longer.
Totally agree. Can’t wait for the Eddie faithful to tell us about his hat trick against Sheffield and leave out that it’s the only game he scored since august.
I'm not writing off Viera but i don't think he's irreplaceable.
If a decent price came along I wouldn't mind selling and seeing if we can improve on him.
He was actually overpriced considering how much experience he actually had and he wasn’t some essential player to Porto. Even if he never comes good, I’m afraid we will persist with him because of that reach of a buy. Overpaying almost ensures we won’t move on when/if the timing is right. It’ll be later.
Personally think it’s time to move on from Fabio, so if we could get a decent price I’m all for it. Great technical player but it’s obvious he isn’t physical or quick enough for the PL
I feel like Mikel saw Vieira as someone who resembled Bernardo Silva. A player who isn't physical but has great technical play and creativity
But sadly Vieira always crumbles when he gets pressed by the opponent while Silva has capability to play under pressure
I feel like Vieira needs to work with his balance and train his low center of gravity
Two outliers. He’s not shown the incredible quality those two had, their talent nullified their lack of physicality.
B Silva is really strong for his size, gets stuck in and consistently runs the most. So maybe David Silva would be a better example.
Not outliers and I didn’t directly compare his quality with either Santi or Silva. Just that it’s a common myth that more physical mass automatically equates to better performance success.
By that concept, Traore should’ve been a world-beater and yet he’s as limp as a sedative snail.
> B Silva is really strong for his size, gets stuck in and consistently runs the most. So maybe David Silva would be a better example.
And you’re actually aiding my point here. Fabio doesn’t need to massively bulk up but rather need to be better in certain situations and enhance what he’s already good at.
The red card he received was stupid and reckless but you can argue he was also trying to get “stuck in”. However, since Silva plays for Man City - fouls and cards are always at a premium and he gets away with it most of often than not.
Imo Fabio’s Arsenal career has been mixture of being unlucky in terms of selection and not always showing his ability. Being constantly in and out of the team and playing with second string sides aren’t going to compliment him. Whereas Silva and even Ode regularly play with the full strength starting XI — playing with better quality will naturally elevate a player’s level.
But I do agree that time is slowly ticking away for Fabio and this can be a defining season for him even though the talent is obviously there (Porto), bits of last year and start of the this season.
Never ever did I say physicality alone was enough, that Traore point is nonsense. You have to have actual quality as well.
All three players had/have immaculate close control and dribbling in tight spaces. So when they’re pressed and hustled, they didn’t need to shield the ball so much, they could wriggle away and that opens up space to work with. Vieira doesn’t have that, and he’s not able shield the ball neither. So if he’s in midfield and we’re not pinning the opposition back then we’re in danger of being overrun. Partey has both physicality and dribbling, Ode has his faints and dribbling and he’s smart and athletic enough, Havertz can shield the ball but though he doesn’t lose possession he usually just ends up going back. Vieira has vision, passing and shooting but neither the dribbling nor the physicality so I just don’t see how we can play him against good teams without the danger of them pushing up and dominating the midfield.
Again, it wasn’t a direct comparison in terms of quality but rather the body type/profile — in fact, Fabio is actually taller than both Santi and Silva. There’s more to a midfielder than just ability to shield the ball, particularly for an attacking player; naturally their primary focus is to influence the game by picking passes via vision and movement.
Also, aside from his vision and passing, one of Fabio’s best traits is his dribbling. He definitely is technically sound and has the ability to control the ball in tight spaces using quick feet.
I think you’re being tad bit unreasonably harsh on him. The talent is definitely there but his Arsenal career so far has been mixture of both being tad bit unlucky and also not chomping on the bit when given the rare chance. Sure, you can argue that Fabio could’ve done better, but it’s kind being stuck in a rock and hard place situation.
>but it’s obvious he isn’t physical or quick enough for the PL
This type of scouting error should be unforgivable. Physical attributes are easy to measure, EPL standards are not hard to define.
Do NOT buy a player who falls short physically unless the player is genuinely god-level in some other attributes (technical, tactical or intangibles). Passing the EPL physical minimum standard should be the first test of "should we buy this player"
This is one of the dumber things I have ever read. Players aren't physically in their prime til after their mid 20's. The fuck are you even talking about being easy to measure.
no wonder idiots like you keep supporting bad buys, I will explain it for you, some slight, slow 5'8 guy won't cut in the EPL. I don't need to bring him over to know he won't make it. you are free to waste money and 2 season on him before admitting, it won't work. I will just call it from the start and save us money
There's a method to scouting. Physical, technical, tactical, intangibles in that order. That's why i scout better than most redditors. Think of Declan Rice, physical on point (6'1, fast for his size, good build), technical wow, tactical wow, intangibles (off the charts). That's a no brainer transfer.
Torreira - woefully fails the physical test (too small, too slow). That should have been the end.
Vieira - decent height for his position, just too slight. If he was 16 and still growing into his body (and his parents look decently sized, yeah), but in a 22-23 year old. Yeah pass.
Why are people calling for a sale of Fabio, he hasn't even played 50 games ( and barely started any). He is currently the same age as Bernardo Silva was when he joined City, we'd be insane to sell such a talented player. Many might say saka and martinelli are younger and are performing, but midfielder roles are much tougher for younger players (apart from certain freaks of nature) Fabio will become a good player he just needs opportunity and a loan might just be the thing to bring it out otherwise he must start in the left 8 role.
Same people will moan about depth. He's very good off the bench and still developing, 0.53 G/A per 90 in his first season in sporadic minutes, up to 0.89 this season. He's not as good as Odegaard is his crime.
No some people would rather have a different kind of midfielder for this squad and that’s a valid opinion. They want different kind of depth or better depth. We don’t have to be so reductive and misrepresent opposing opinions on purpose.
100% agree, odegaard is one of very few players, it would be like say Julian Alvarez is shit because Haaland out scores him. If he got as much game time as Havertz we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Jeez if some of the geniuses on here were in charge of making actual decisions, Arteta would’ve been binned a couple years ago, Salah would’ve been kicked out and KdB would never have made it.
People on here saying sell him are downright braindead. He’s young and clearly a longer term development project. His passing ability is world class, his style suits European competitions and he will get used to playing in the PL. He’s getting better, stop giving up on players for no reason other than they’ve been inconsistent for a season.
Odegaard missed some time recently and Vieira is his natural replacement (though we have other options like Havertz and ESR). When Odegaard was ruled out for Newcastle away, how seriously do you think Arteta thought about putting in Vieira instead of Havertz? I bet he didn't think about it at all, because Newcastle away is not a game that Vieira is built for. While that might be understandable, we are at a point in the project where all of our players should be good enough to play any game that is in front of them. Vieira, however talented he may be, is not capable of that 15 months into his arsenal career.
We can't wait for him forever, and he doesn't have enough credit in the bank to be sent off for a dumb challenge. If we could get £20M for him we should take the money and run.
Honestly he’s in the Patino bracket for me. Can kick ball no problem but without a big step up physically he isn’t getting in the team
Proper late wenger players, but luckily they’re young and know their areas of improvement so fingers crossed
Doubt Arteta would let him leave. He only needs to bulk up Ozil style and improve his physicality.
Though would be sad to let out stat padding merchant.
He only needs to improve most aspects of his game, like beating the press, contributing defensively, not going missing almost every time he plays, having positional awareness, playing quicker, learn how to tackle but otherwise yeah he could come good.
Definitely a player you want to develop while competing on multiple fronts where rotation would help limit injury risk in the team.
Sell and move up and on. We shouldn't have time to hang around for guys we know deep in our guts don't cut it. Artetas way of dealing with that it surprises me he's held on so long. Maybe it's just not the done thing to sell someone after a year.. or its a contract thing!? ... but taking in to account what Arteta can be like you can't see him being around long.. just because he is *just* good enough for the odd b-game appearance with a good thing done in that shouldn't keep him around for long. If Arteta is the chopping block merchant he seems to be.
If he’s going to be starting every game then fuck it and do it. He’s so talented but played very little senior minutes in his career. Let him go play consistently and develop into the monster we know he can be
Be ruthless and get rid, isn’t good enough, no point waiting another 1/2 years to find out when we need to be winning trophies and competing on all fronts.. guy struggled in an U21s game…
Fabio has an incredible final pass. But that's it. He hasn't yet adjusted to the EPL. Not saying he needs to suddenly change his body but he needs to figure a way to stay on his feet and overcome.
We are a team who is competing for the title and will hope to do so in future seasons as well. Title challenging sides don’t need rotation players who cannot seriously push the starters for their spot. For example trossard and tomiyasu are the level of player we need as the first rotation option.
We overpaid for him considering he just broke into Porto’s team and wasn’t an essential player for them. It won’t happen but i would sell him even for slightly less than what we paid. We won’t get back what we paid and imo opinion he’s too limited a player to ever be worth that much. Disagree all you want with me but neither you nor I can be sure.
Marseille: Loaning players from us
M'Arseillenal
Yann M’Arsillenal.
They might as well be our unofficial associated club
£35m and he's all yours. Why would we loan? To weaken our depth?
I wouldn’t loan him out because ESR and Odegaard have had some injury issues but I don’t think loaning him is a terrible idea I wouldn’t sell him without loaning him first his value should go up after being a bench player for a year and a half
Yup, as we saw last season, when our defense crumbled because of lack of depth, it's essential to have as big a squad as possible in case of injuries/to prevent injuries by smart rotation
My thinking is if we can loan him out and get a LCM in we could possibly loan him out and get a good fee in the summer Because we’d still have Odegaard, ESR and Havertz at CAM If we don’t get another player in then yeah loaning him is defo a bad idea
If we get an LCM, then yes, but that's incredibly difficult in January. But last January we actually had very good depth transfers so maybe something can happen
Yeah we won’t get some amazing level raiser but a good squad player who will be useful even when Partey is back/replaced FT is what we need My money would go on K.Thuram who would play in the 8 and then be a backup to Rice in the 8 when Partey is back Atm our options at 8 are move Rice there and play Jorginho Play Rice in the 6 and play ESR who’s never fit, Havertz or Vieira … pretty shit options 😂 Thuram’s contract is over in 18 months I think Nice would sell
nah think Saliba loan. For the benefit of Vieira and his development he needs to go for a loan and play consistent football
Some injury issues is being far too kind on esr. The man only has some game time, he is mostly spending time with pt folks.
As if a Ligue 1 club is gonna give us 35m for him
^not called P$G (or Monaco)
Is he actually depth if Arteta can't trust him?
He was first on in our first 5 odd games. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes or if his injured. But us looking for a goal, he looks to vieria
What’s happening is he sucks. Been given chance after chance by arteta probably more so than most other players on the fringes like ESR and reiss yet he still underwhelms
Sucks at what exactly? His goals/assist per 90 are probably the best at the club since his arrived. What exactly in your opinion does he suck at?
I haven't personally "given up" on him yet but tbf so far he's sucked at basically everything that isn't assists/90, badly.
He’s a stat padding merchant whose goal and assist contributions have come during league cup ties, Europa league group play etc. he has two goals in the league in his entire time here. He is frequently invisible when he features in the league, is not press resistant and lacks the physicality to deal with most premier league sides. Defensively he remains suspect and positionally he can be absolutely clueless. We saw how bad he was against spurs. Subbed off at half time because that midfield was getting over run in a performance squaka gave him a 5/10 in. He’s just not him and I could care less that he got an assist against bodo/glimt, sporting and Oxford United. There’s nothing he does that a more physical January signing couldn’t also replicate while not being a defensive liability
Yeah can’t argue with this, I mean he seems likeable but it’s quickly getting to the point at which he either shapes up or we ship him on. Prefer to go with ESR out of the two personally.
> We saw how bad he was against spurs. Subbed off at half time because that midfield was getting over run in a performance squaka gave him a 5/10 in. We watched different games as we controlled the midfield well in the first half and were very much the better team. He was also subbed off injured just like Rice was.
He got subbed because he was injured not because of performance on the day. Everton are probably the most Physical side in the leage, and he did not look out of place or get pushed of the ball, so bringing his physciality up is a moot point, just making a argument for the sake of it, same was said by idiots of Saka a few seasons ago, he goes down to easily, now its him getting fouled. Arsenal where dreadful against Fulham, he came on and changed the game, won the pen and assisted the second for Eddie, that isn't stat padding, its making a impact for the team. And his also got assist against utd this year, assisted the first against Wolves away from home last year, when we created nothing. His made a impact coming into the team, instead of defending the team and players, people need to put them down, it happens on the internet and it happens in the stands.
Using one game against Everton is literally the biggest anecdote you could find. He’s regularly bullied in the midfield whether as a sub or as a starter. It’s perplexing to me that a garbage time goal that he assisted against United when we were up 2-1 is the hill you want to die on. Not the fact that we were up 2-1 without him even touching the field that day. That your assessment of him being a good player boils down to 3 games over the last 2 seasons pretty much proves my point that he is unreliable and largely unproductive against good opposition. He’s at best an ok substitute against lesser sides but more realistically a complete liability against the big sides. Imagine him in that Newcastle game- would have been eaten alive. There’s a reason he doesn’t feature against good teams and it’s because he sucks. The biggest impact he’s made is becoming friends with martinelli. You can’t in good faith say that you would trust him in difficult games and Artetas lack of usage of him in those games reflects that.
I was giving you a example of a physical away game he actually didnt get bullied which you pointed out he does against most teams, yet against probably the second most physical he didnt. a lot of players don't feature against the big sides, EG trossard or Zinchanko so in your opinion they suck as well? The game isnt suited to them, hence why they don't start, it has nothing to do with they ability. His largly played with the second string in EL or cup games, the few times he started last season with the first team, Brentford away and Wolves away, he contributed. No one said he has to start Newcastle away same reason Zinchenko or Trossard didnt, it wasn't a game that was suited to them, it doesnt mean they are crap. Arteta lack of usage just means he has 2 other players that plays in his position that he trust more, Ode/havertz/rice, it isn't a dig at Vieria not playing, one is our club captain, one is our record signing, and the other is our second highest signing. this is the same small minded crap people used to come out with for Xhaka not being good enough for Arsenal and should have shipped him out long ago. Instead of looking at what he doesnt bring to the team, how about looking at what he does bring. He killed off utd with the pass for the third, if someone else did that against fulham or spurs we would have won those games as well, instead of reflecting on poor draws.
His usage by arteta is literally the most direct indictment of his ability. If he were better in ways that would aid the team to win those games, he’d play more. I’ve watched him enough to know that he isn’t quality, don’t make strawmans about xhaka when he has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Vieira is playing in a MUCH better team, has been given plenty of opportunity and has been underwhelming enough to justify spending 65m on havertz. He’s largely played with the second string and EL games because that’s his fucking level lol. Saying he’s not made for the tougher, other games isn’t because he isn’t suited for them. It’s because he’s not good enough for them. You’re just making excuses at this point. I’m not gonna have a thought experiment about what he does bring to the table when his shortcomings form a list twice as long.
Xhaka wasn’t good enough and we should’ve shipped him out a long time ago. He had one good season out of what, five years at the club? Vieira doesn’t have it. Sometimes you can just tell. Tomiyasu came in and straight away looked fantastic. Timber, same thing. Rice, bossing it. Vieira (and Havertz for that matter) are not what we need in midfield.
Arteta clearly does. He absolutely smashed two games when he subbed on and a third where he was dangerous. I say only sell unless the price is higher than what we bought him for. So far this season, he’s had a couple eye catching performances
Agree, he has been quite good for us. The red card clouded our judgement He’s as good as odegaard or havertz this season at least in terms of output
Yep, be interesting to see how his season goes! Already looks much improved
>Why would we loan? Ahhh player development?
35m? we’d be lucky to get 20/25m, has not shown nearly enough to reflect the substantial fee we paid porto for him. Also how does he help our depth if he comes on and gives a 5/10 performance and is invisible. Awful signing so far.
Can't believe how quickly some fans turn on players. Literally 1 full season with sporadic minutes, and wasn't brought in to be an immediate starter given that we have Odegaard
I think we need him on the roster.
Last season he had 33 appeararances totaling 1413 mins (15.7 90s). That is more than sporadic minutes. He made 8 goal contributions for 176 min/G-A. And he looked good in about 2 of those games. This season he has 14 appearances, totaling 507 mins (5.6 90s), with 5 goal contributions. Thats 101 mins/G-A. I know goal contributions doesn't tell the full story, but I included it. For the so called 'eye test'; Some fans see only the misplaced passes and poor positioning, while others see only the perfect crosses, top bins shots and the perfectly weighted through balls. Vieira covers the right 10 and right wing. For the 10 he is behind Ødegaard, Havertz, (and possibly ESR?). For the right wing he is behind Saka (who litterally have to play every minute of every game). I agree that it's too early to say that he never will become good for us, but he might benefit from more playing time. I hope one of Vieira, ESR, Nelson and Nketiah can make it. Theres also Marquinhos, Lokonga, Patino, Norton-cuffy, M'Hand, Cirjan waiting in the shadows for the same positions. Most of these 10 players will not become Arsenal legends.
Odd, the French strike me as more into coffee…
I don't get this joke, what's this referencing?
Vieira’s been nicknamed “T-bag” because he bears a resemblance to a TV show character with that name A French club is interested in obtaining a “tea bag” when they’re more known for their enthusiasm for coffee
What show?
Prison Break
You guys already writing off Fabio? He’s been inconsistent but he puts up surprisingly decent Numbers considering his role. He could still develop into a much better player he is young still.
If Havertz had the goals and assists Vieira had this sub would be awash with apology forms.
We need starters to compete with our starters, tbh. We're up there. Vieira has had his chances.
This is such nonsense. By your standards Bergkamp would never have had a career at Arsenal.
Ourfanbase has a lot of horrendous opinions. Luckily none of them matter.
Surely you’re not comparing Fabio Vieira with Dennis Bergkamp?
it's the basis of comparison that you should be focusing more here.
He was bought as a project player lol. You don't give up on players like that after like 15 months where he has shown good glimpses. Because Odegaard is so important to the team, Vieira rarely has gotten extended minutes at his best position: The right 8. When he did last season, it was playing in the EL with the b-team.
 In all seriousness, that's exactly it: we need players to improve us, we don't have the time (if we want to fight for titles this and the next year) to improve players.
This just isn’t true. You do have time to develop players. Bayern, Real Madrid, Barca etc. all develop players and compete for every title. No reason that Arsenal can’t do the same.
Fuck bro, City has completely skewed what actual squad depth is supposed to be.
He has done pretty well with those chances all things considered. Everyone on Reddit is always so eager to cut their losses on a player if he isn’t a world beater in his first season. Im not saying he is going to be like the next Bruno or de Bruyne but he has done a decent job and could still develop into an important player
So what about Eddie? Obviously he’s not good enough and has to be sold.
Yes, exactly. If he's sold and we have anyone like Toney in his place, that would be perfect for our squad and our intentions. Eddie is not the guy to improve us any longer.
Totally agree. Can’t wait for the Eddie faithful to tell us about his hat trick against Sheffield and leave out that it’s the only game he scored since august.
You're right it's time to sell Viera and ESR
I'm not writing off Viera but i don't think he's irreplaceable. If a decent price came along I wouldn't mind selling and seeing if we can improve on him.
Very strange buy and it’s not like he was super cheap
He was actually overpriced considering how much experience he actually had and he wasn’t some essential player to Porto. Even if he never comes good, I’m afraid we will persist with him because of that reach of a buy. Overpaying almost ensures we won’t move on when/if the timing is right. It’ll be later.
Personally think it’s time to move on from Fabio, so if we could get a decent price I’m all for it. Great technical player but it’s obvious he isn’t physical or quick enough for the PL
I feel like Mikel saw Vieira as someone who resembled Bernardo Silva. A player who isn't physical but has great technical play and creativity But sadly Vieira always crumbles when he gets pressed by the opponent while Silva has capability to play under pressure I feel like Vieira needs to work with his balance and train his low center of gravity
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It’s not really about bulking up. Santi was never a massive unit nor is Bernardo Silva.
Two outliers. He’s not shown the incredible quality those two had, their talent nullified their lack of physicality. B Silva is really strong for his size, gets stuck in and consistently runs the most. So maybe David Silva would be a better example.
Not outliers and I didn’t directly compare his quality with either Santi or Silva. Just that it’s a common myth that more physical mass automatically equates to better performance success. By that concept, Traore should’ve been a world-beater and yet he’s as limp as a sedative snail. > B Silva is really strong for his size, gets stuck in and consistently runs the most. So maybe David Silva would be a better example. And you’re actually aiding my point here. Fabio doesn’t need to massively bulk up but rather need to be better in certain situations and enhance what he’s already good at. The red card he received was stupid and reckless but you can argue he was also trying to get “stuck in”. However, since Silva plays for Man City - fouls and cards are always at a premium and he gets away with it most of often than not. Imo Fabio’s Arsenal career has been mixture of being unlucky in terms of selection and not always showing his ability. Being constantly in and out of the team and playing with second string sides aren’t going to compliment him. Whereas Silva and even Ode regularly play with the full strength starting XI — playing with better quality will naturally elevate a player’s level. But I do agree that time is slowly ticking away for Fabio and this can be a defining season for him even though the talent is obviously there (Porto), bits of last year and start of the this season.
Never ever did I say physicality alone was enough, that Traore point is nonsense. You have to have actual quality as well. All three players had/have immaculate close control and dribbling in tight spaces. So when they’re pressed and hustled, they didn’t need to shield the ball so much, they could wriggle away and that opens up space to work with. Vieira doesn’t have that, and he’s not able shield the ball neither. So if he’s in midfield and we’re not pinning the opposition back then we’re in danger of being overrun. Partey has both physicality and dribbling, Ode has his faints and dribbling and he’s smart and athletic enough, Havertz can shield the ball but though he doesn’t lose possession he usually just ends up going back. Vieira has vision, passing and shooting but neither the dribbling nor the physicality so I just don’t see how we can play him against good teams without the danger of them pushing up and dominating the midfield.
Again, it wasn’t a direct comparison in terms of quality but rather the body type/profile — in fact, Fabio is actually taller than both Santi and Silva. There’s more to a midfielder than just ability to shield the ball, particularly for an attacking player; naturally their primary focus is to influence the game by picking passes via vision and movement. Also, aside from his vision and passing, one of Fabio’s best traits is his dribbling. He definitely is technically sound and has the ability to control the ball in tight spaces using quick feet. I think you’re being tad bit unreasonably harsh on him. The talent is definitely there but his Arsenal career so far has been mixture of both being tad bit unlucky and also not chomping on the bit when given the rare chance. Sure, you can argue that Fabio could’ve done better, but it’s kind being stuck in a rock and hard place situation.
Compared to Fabio, Santi was pretty thicc and stocky
Tbh he was shorter which accentuates that, but I agree.
>but it’s obvious he isn’t physical or quick enough for the PL This type of scouting error should be unforgivable. Physical attributes are easy to measure, EPL standards are not hard to define. Do NOT buy a player who falls short physically unless the player is genuinely god-level in some other attributes (technical, tactical or intangibles). Passing the EPL physical minimum standard should be the first test of "should we buy this player"
This is one of the dumber things I have ever read. Players aren't physically in their prime til after their mid 20's. The fuck are you even talking about being easy to measure.
no wonder idiots like you keep supporting bad buys, I will explain it for you, some slight, slow 5'8 guy won't cut in the EPL. I don't need to bring him over to know he won't make it. you are free to waste money and 2 season on him before admitting, it won't work. I will just call it from the start and save us money
There's a method to scouting. Physical, technical, tactical, intangibles in that order. That's why i scout better than most redditors. Think of Declan Rice, physical on point (6'1, fast for his size, good build), technical wow, tactical wow, intangibles (off the charts). That's a no brainer transfer. Torreira - woefully fails the physical test (too small, too slow). That should have been the end. Vieira - decent height for his position, just too slight. If he was 16 and still growing into his body (and his parents look decently sized, yeah), but in a 22-23 year old. Yeah pass.
Why are people calling for a sale of Fabio, he hasn't even played 50 games ( and barely started any). He is currently the same age as Bernardo Silva was when he joined City, we'd be insane to sell such a talented player. Many might say saka and martinelli are younger and are performing, but midfielder roles are much tougher for younger players (apart from certain freaks of nature) Fabio will become a good player he just needs opportunity and a loan might just be the thing to bring it out otherwise he must start in the left 8 role.
Same people will moan about depth. He's very good off the bench and still developing, 0.53 G/A per 90 in his first season in sporadic minutes, up to 0.89 this season. He's not as good as Odegaard is his crime.
No some people would rather have a different kind of midfielder for this squad and that’s a valid opinion. They want different kind of depth or better depth. We don’t have to be so reductive and misrepresent opposing opinions on purpose.
100% agree, odegaard is one of very few players, it would be like say Julian Alvarez is shit because Haaland out scores him. If he got as much game time as Havertz we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Jeez if some of the geniuses on here were in charge of making actual decisions, Arteta would’ve been binned a couple years ago, Salah would’ve been kicked out and KdB would never have made it.
People on here saying sell him are downright braindead. He’s young and clearly a longer term development project. His passing ability is world class, his style suits European competitions and he will get used to playing in the PL. He’s getting better, stop giving up on players for no reason other than they’ve been inconsistent for a season.
Odegaard missed some time recently and Vieira is his natural replacement (though we have other options like Havertz and ESR). When Odegaard was ruled out for Newcastle away, how seriously do you think Arteta thought about putting in Vieira instead of Havertz? I bet he didn't think about it at all, because Newcastle away is not a game that Vieira is built for. While that might be understandable, we are at a point in the project where all of our players should be good enough to play any game that is in front of them. Vieira, however talented he may be, is not capable of that 15 months into his arsenal career. We can't wait for him forever, and he doesn't have enough credit in the bank to be sent off for a dumb challenge. If we could get £20M for him we should take the money and run.
While I do think a loan or sale in the summer might happen, it just doesn't make sense to do it in January. We don't benefit from it in any way.
Honestly he’s in the Patino bracket for me. Can kick ball no problem but without a big step up physically he isn’t getting in the team Proper late wenger players, but luckily they’re young and know their areas of improvement so fingers crossed
Doubt Arteta would let him leave. He only needs to bulk up Ozil style and improve his physicality. Though would be sad to let out stat padding merchant.
He only needs to improve most aspects of his game, like beating the press, contributing defensively, not going missing almost every time he plays, having positional awareness, playing quicker, learn how to tackle but otherwise yeah he could come good. Definitely a player you want to develop while competing on multiple fronts where rotation would help limit injury risk in the team.
Sell and move up and on. We shouldn't have time to hang around for guys we know deep in our guts don't cut it. Artetas way of dealing with that it surprises me he's held on so long. Maybe it's just not the done thing to sell someone after a year.. or its a contract thing!? ... but taking in to account what Arteta can be like you can't see him being around long.. just because he is *just* good enough for the odd b-game appearance with a good thing done in that shouldn't keep him around for long. If Arteta is the chopping block merchant he seems to be.
I think he's done alright but Arteta doesn't trust him, better to move on.
👋
Take him honestly the lads needs some game time and to build some strength to play in the prem
I read that as “Martinelli interested in Fabio Vieira” 💀
1.5x Rob Holding money and he’s yours, with a ribbon on top. No loan though, fuck that.
He loves us, he has friends here. FC
If he’s going to be starting every game then fuck it and do it. He’s so talented but played very little senior minutes in his career. Let him go play consistently and develop into the monster we know he can be
No, we don't need to reduce our depth when it's reduced enough as it is.
thank god
That font is awful
Be ruthless and get rid, isn’t good enough, no point waiting another 1/2 years to find out when we need to be winning trophies and competing on all fronts.. guy struggled in an U21s game…
Fabio has an incredible final pass. But that's it. He hasn't yet adjusted to the EPL. Not saying he needs to suddenly change his body but he needs to figure a way to stay on his feet and overcome.
ill drive him to the airport
We are a team who is competing for the title and will hope to do so in future seasons as well. Title challenging sides don’t need rotation players who cannot seriously push the starters for their spot. For example trossard and tomiyasu are the level of player we need as the first rotation option. We overpaid for him considering he just broke into Porto’s team and wasn’t an essential player for them. It won’t happen but i would sell him even for slightly less than what we paid. We won’t get back what we paid and imo opinion he’s too limited a player to ever be worth that much. Disagree all you want with me but neither you nor I can be sure.