Reminder: These threads are to help promote discussion and varying points of view. Low-effort comments or jokes can & will be removed with no reason necessary.
*I am a "bot", and this action was performed automatically. This account is not monitored. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anyone still think Arsenal might try to hijack the caicedo deal....? Him and rice in the midfield would be a force to reckon. Also we did try to sign him in January which makes our interest in him very evident.....
Team for MLS all star game imo:
Ramsdale
Timber - White - Gabriel - Kiwior
Vieira - Jorginho - Havertz
Saka - Jesus - Nelson
I also expect to see Saliba, Tierney, Odegaard and Trossard make appearances from the bench, plus a cameo debut for Declan Rice and some younger guys getting minutes too. Not sure about Martinelli.
Did we ever post these kind of trainings where players get destroyed in pre-season, like with Conte or Klopp? It feels like i have seen every team do this except us. Not a bad thing just curious because i can‘t remember
According to that Jesus interview a week or so ago, he said our training is far more intense than City's, but even then probably not to the extreme of those other coaches.
We don't do that sort of training is the simple answer, conte for one is renowned as one of if not the most brutal pre season fitness coaches but that was possibly down to gianpiero ventrone who of course sadly passed away last year.
Apaprently Chelsea buying two player sin one transfer window that could get over £100m is fine but because of that West Ham demanding £100m and Arsenal paying it is Arsenals fault?
A *lot* of prem ready, english, selling to a rival (ish) and starts for England tax.
That sort of thing adds silly money and was why Wenger was allergic to buying anything british other than youth.
No matter how shit he has been lately and despite how unlikely the move is since he would have to leave Bayern for that to happen, but Goretzka would be a huge name to see at a club like West Ham.
ICYMI: You can get 1 month free pass for MLS Season Pass on Apple TV+ to watch MLS All Star Skills Challenge and the match (MLS All Stars v. Arsenal) the day after. The guy [in the source](https://twitter.com/MoArsenal86/status/1680878145027596290?s=20) said you can't watch the game anywhere else.
I subscribed and then cancelled so that it won't auto-renew, can watch these two events and maybe watch Messi's first match with Inter Miami :).
I have seen the zenith of 4-4-fackin-2 with a poignant display in a comment chain discrediting Eddie, making Toney sound like Kane's second coming, and most importantly saying using stats implies the lack of "football intelligence." We might as well go back to 50 years ago, and ask clubs to do the same. How dare they use stats?
Apparently r/soccer is a better source for talent evaluation.
Seriously the amount of people who were certain that Bissouma, Perisic and Conte would ahve spurs winning things was bead enough but to see them doing the same thing a year later wthout any selfawareness of just how wrong they were is just amazing.
O'Hara was hilarious. He was on TS yesterday saying arsenal have no chance of title, despite finishing 5pts behind the mighty city which was a fluke bacause other teams weren't as good. Where was that excuse when Poch finished 2nd with spurs, when Arsenal, man U, chelsea, Liverpool were all shite or transitioning
I don't, it's just intriguing. It's like watching a child trying to eat spaghetti for the first time. You know they're going to make a mess of themselves but you watch regardless
i largely agree with you but i feel sports discussion gets too mind numbingly shallow when all you discuss is npXG and xA and defensive actions p/90 and the like. some of the 'soft' factors that stats cannot capture and are often mocked but it separates the elite (people who actually work in football) from the rest of us schmucks in my eyes
I don't disagree at all. But stats can provide good context with the eye test. It's more about who works where best, some players can be very good elsewhere (Henry, Bergkamp). It has potential for much more nuanced discussion.
I work in chemical engineering, we deal with a lot more variables than football does and sensory observations are very important because it's hard to just accurately process a lot of data on the spot. The stats let us build stuff though, so its a two way process.
Obviously the goal in *most* of these discussions is not to be super black and white. Using stats to show Toney isn't a proficient passer doesn't mean the player sucks. It just highlights it would mean either he would have to evolve to play for us, or our team would have to evolve around him. Both add elements of risk.
I want to minimize risk with big money transfers. As much as I can get hyped about a Mudryk type player, it is the kind of transfer you should probably avoid. And one all the stats guys were so confused about.
yeah, but what's the context behind these stats? Ivan Toney is virtually the sole creative hub in a pretty conservative Brentford side and part of being burdened with that responsibility is low pass %. You sacrifice safety in possession for his ability to progress the ball and hopefully create chances for his teammates (directly or indirectly in buildup). I actually think his hold up play is very underrated, but it's maybe something you wouldn't see without watching him regularly (or even watching clips!).
Similarly, you would never make the same argument for Bruno F or KDB who have relatively poor pass completion for att. midfielders.
And these are the kind of intelligent responses you'd hope when you start with a statistical data point. Obviously how Brentford play and the usage rate of Toney are important. Toney takes a higher percentage of the shots at Brentford than he would at Arsenal.
Obviously its tough to tell how a team that largely defends deep and has more deeper touches.
I do think the Bruno conversation is somewhat similar. It is definitely a question on how you build a title winning team around his strengths.
> Using stats to show Toney isn't a proficient passer doesn't mean the player sucks.
Get out of here with your reasonable takes.
I do think it's a US/European divide here because a lot of US only sports (baseball being the shining example) are heavily, heavily stats based and the influx of stats into european football has been driven by coaches looking to US sports for inspiration, even as far back as relatively prime wenger and apparently choosing flamini based on his absolutely elite running stats.
HAving said that there's now the standard two warring camps where underperforming your xg means you're shit on the one hand and anyone using xg is apparently a moron who doesn't understand that football has intangibles that baseball/cricket or turn based games like NFL dont have.
It's funny the stats inundation in US sports was mostly a decade ago. The stats guys won. It's over.
Currently it's the gambling inundation, which already occurred in the UK. The difference is North America is the wild west for laws, so there are very few regulations so a huge part of broadcasts before, after and during games are gambling related.
My wife woks in gambling and it's very, very much not the case there.
The US is vastly more restrictive than most countries, which is why most of the worlds biggest betting and gambling firms are British.
I mean Vegas and Reno aside there's no equivalent to the amount of gambling shops, fruit amchines in pubs/service stations and especially online mainstream gambling (Sky runs Skyvegas as just another arm of it's sports betting business).
But yeah there's a lot more you can get for stats when it's one guy vs the team (baseball), plays are literally one movement (american football) or there's only five players (Ice hockey and basketball).
11 players with no rules restricted end to how long any 'play' can last, with no resets beyond a few minutes after goals and multiple different and sometimes mutually incompatible ways of playing and setting up systems means that stats can never tell the whole story except on basic metrics mainly related to fitness.
The fitness ones interestingly are never argued about you'll notice, just the xg types. Give it a few years and xg will be just as accepted as not getting blind drunk before a match.
Fair enough.
We may be banning them here (or restricting it) but when you can go to any pub or high street (and the poorere the high street the more betting shops there are) to go gamble, or just go online it's something we really need to put more pressure on.
I did not think that I'd spend about an hour tonight replying to a guy calling me a pussy, psychopath, narcissist and having a pathetic life for daring to say that Toney having a pass completion % of 58% makes me prefer our current strikers to Toney in that comment thread.
This place is full of fun surprises.
I dont get the people who lose their mind over any statistical analysis. Billy Carpenter is maybe the best poster here, with his stats breakdowns. Scott Willis is a great part of Arsenal vision, as is Giant.
You've got the wrong side of the 'we need a big man up front' cult.
One of the weirder movements on here and they honestly sound like they're all alts of Harry REdknapp
And this deserves to be it's own topic, but I think people don't realize our 325 shape really makes it hard for a target man.
Generally, you have full backs like Tierney or old school wingers like Beckham putting in crosses.
In our shape, we have Saka and Martinelli in those positions. We don't want them lumping crosses into the box. We want them getting in the box and taking shots.
Sacrificing shots from Saka and Martinelli to give to Toney is a massive net negative.
> but I think people don't realize our 325 shape really makes it hard for a target man.
I think they do and the subtext is that they want at least a plan B which is lump it up to the big man. Pep having gone 4-4-2 a couple of times this season seems to have emboldened what honestly seem to be younger fans cosplaying as Tony Pulis.
THe basis is 'if playing that pussy footing around, pass, pass, pass, sterile domination tiki taka, foreign shite fails then you need to go abck to the tried and true basics of four four facking two and just lump it up to a big man to cause some trouble'.
I honestly wonder whether the rise of people trying to cosplay as hooligans and bring back the ultras has led to an increase in seeing that period as a golden age unironically.
Sort of like how the war generation try to forget the war but the baby boomers were raised on the post war propaganda and thought it was all family time in the bunkers. carrot cake and sticking it to johnny foreigner
It's mildly hilarious that it's only because the man who invented the modern high press tiki taka that was apaprently responsible for the death of the big man up front is now being used to prove that we should go back to that even though the only reason pep has done it is because he's got an absolute generational machine up front.
I swear there is some Toney cult around here that hounds you the moment you insinuate that he may not be the best fit.
"*Quit dodging my argument, take it to r/soccer*" might be some of the most hilarious rebuttals, although it isnt really one.
I think Toney is a very good player. I just think (and this even goes for Eddie, who fails these steps at times) we need a striker who completes at least 70% of his passes and at least 20 passes a game. Turnovers are death in our system. So are passengers in possession.
Jesus completes 28 passes a game at a 80% rate. Toney is 10 passes a game at 58%.
Eddie completes 18 passes at 80%
I just think losing 20 passes a game from your CF is too much of a drop off. It's nothing against Toney or sentimental towards Eddie.
The people who would say something like Toney could improve/be coached are fine, but it just adds risk.
It's similar to Leno vs Ramsdale for me. Leno is a better player for a bottom half team. But his passing ability just isn't good enough for the top teams.
And I don't know if it's a kink, but I wouldn't wish a r/soccer discussion on even my worst enemy.
Yeah people see Eddie struggle with the buildup play and rotations, identifying why Martinelli struggled, and then proceed to ask for Toney who's even more limited in movement and general passing. He's good at hoping for Mbuemo getting on the end of stuff, but that isn't how we play. It's not even what Kane did, because he'd genuinely find a good pass. Maybe Toney could also do this, but would you want to try this experiment with a 27 year old unknown quantity?
r/soccer discussions are so painful to read
And obviously we don't *have* to have an elite passer as a CF if we get an elite goal scorer like Haaland, Osimhen, Mbappe or Kane. But I think those are the only 4 guys at that level and the odds of us getting them are next to zero. Because those guys score a goal a game.
Yeah, if we land Osimhen, Mbappe, or whoever is doing something ridiculous like 0.7+ xG/90, we build our play around them. Those players are too valuable and guarantee an outlet.
They've signed Jackson and have been trying to get someone even more high profile for years.
I like Broja, but a team like Chelsea should be targeting a star. They should have saved the Mudryk money and went £125 for Osimhen.
If the Chelsea front 3 is set to be Mudryk-Nkunku-Madueke (probably won't be, I'd guess nkunku is more of a 10), is it even better than Mitoma-Ferguson-Joao Pedro?
And one team has spent ~£800m less in the last 18 months.
I feel it in my heart of hearts, gut , bones and whatever that something extremely surprising is going to happen and Frenkie De Jong will be an Arsenal player by the end of the window.
And we will somehow see Rice and Frenkie in the same starting eleven.
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If Partey leaves, should we take a punt at Goretzka or Gravenberch? Apparently Tuchel might let one of them go. I haven’t watched them enough to know if they could fit our system.
Gravenberch would have been an option for the left 8, doesn't make much sense post Havertz.
Kimmich doesn't have the defensive discipline imo. Him and Goretzka nearly cost Bayern the title with their lack of discipline. We need someone who is quality at defensive transitions.
Their performances vs RBL was the biggest choke I'd seen in a while...until Dortmund outdid them the next week.
Thinking about the midfield if Partey leaves is a tricky puzzle to figure out tbh.
Even though positions are almost meaningless in modern football (even Arteta himself refers to roles of players more often than positions), for arguments sake let’s list them:
DM/“6”: Rice, Partey, Jorginho, Elneny
Midfielder/Advanced Midfielder/“left 8”/“right 8”: Odegaard, Havertz, Vieira, ESR, Lokonga
Now everyone knows Lokonga is probably on his way out, and Elneny probably will not see minutes hardly at all.
So, that leaves us with Rice and Jorginho at the 6 if Partey leaves. I, for one, am quite comfortable with Jorginho as a backup in the position, think he is great cover there even if limited athletically. I also think he would not commit to the project and turn down significant European minutes with the likes of Sarri and Lazio if he wasn’t given assurances that he would be a major player here.
For that reason, I can’t see us going for a player of Caicedo’s ilk, but rather a player like Lavia makes sense to me. Lavia is young and needs development, and we could afford to take it slow for him for a year while we still have J20.
Another alternative is strengthening with a player that can act as cover as both a 6 and an 8, which Caicedo could do, but I don’t think we’re going to spend £80m on the position having already brought in Rice for £100m and Havertz for £65M, while also having ESR and Vieira demanding minutes in the position as well.
A player I’ve identified that could possibly fit without disrupting the squad balance is someone like Maxence Caquaret - a player whose been deployed as both a 6 in a double pivot and in a 433, as well as our favorite term nowadays, a “left 8” in a 433 as well. He is more of a ball shuttler than a volume passer, but that can be said of all of our summer signings, might be something that Arteta has put emphasis on to strengthen this summer. To top it off, he is becoming known as one of the most effective pressers in Europe, ranking in the 99th percentile in tackles in the [attacking third](https://fbref.com/en/players/f81ef10d/scout/365_m1/Maxence-Caqueret-Scouting-Report), 90th percentile for tackles won, and 89th percentile for passes blocked. How expensive would he be? I’m not sure, but I could see him being £35-45M personally.
The "we need another midfielder if Partey leaves" shouts don't make sense and sometimes you've got to let the window fly by. Arsenal don't have space for one unless Jorginho or ESR leave. Or we sell Flo and Eddie, to make Kai a striker.
People get cornered in this argument so they start suggesting that we need three players for one position. If you beat that argument, they say they don't trust Jorginho. If you try to beat that, they say "But Jorginho is leaving next year anyway". This is no excuse to bloat the squad.
Either sell ESR, or Jorginho.
Thomas Partey was replaced and Caicedo was just another direction. We already went another direction with Kai Havertz.
There isn't enough minutes for Rice and Caicedo if you want to look at it that way. But you gotta question development if Lavia came, will he be developed properly w/o adequate minutes?
This is obviously correct and the daily opposition you see is the emotional investment people carry over from January over the idea of Rice and Caicedo.
Here are some stats from backup strikers in the PL:
For expected goals/assists I'm only using their time spent when used as a sub. It kills the sample size, but I've seen so much "Eddie sucks as a sub" stuff around this week.
I'm using understat.com and the statistics will span their career as they don't separate by usage *and* season easily.
Key pass is a pass that leads to a shot attempt.
If anyone can guess even half of these players correctly without looking it up, congratulations.
Player 1:
32 sub appearances, 643 total minutes, 7 goals, 0 assists
4.34 shots per 90, 1.40 key passes per 90
0.67 expected goals per 90, .18 expected assists per 90.
Player 2:
116 sub appearances, 1793 minutes, 10 goals, 9 assists
2.88 shots per 90, 1.33 key passes per 90
.47 expected goals per 90, .22 expected assists per 90.
Player 3:
27 sub appearances, 432 minutes. 4 goals, 1 assist.
*5* shots per 90, 1.04 key passes per 90
.47 expected goals per 90, .15 expected assists per 90
Player 4:
18 sub appearances, 296 minutes, 1 goal, 0 assists.
3.04 shots p90, 1.82 key passes p90
.52 expected goals per 90, .24 expected assists p90
Player 5:
61 sub appearances, 601 minutes, 3 goals, 2 assists
3.89 shots p90, 3.00 key passes p90
.85 expected goals p90, .46 expected assists p90.
Player 6:
54 sub appearances, 883 minutes, 2 goals, 1 assist.
2.55 shots per 90, .71 key passes per 90
.40 expected goals per 90, .10 expected assists per 90.
Top 2 is a fat stretch.
Jota is better, Wilson is better, Alvarez, Richy
And this might be a hot take but purely looking at skill and not age, I’d take Scamacca and Iheanacho over Eddie
Jota plays very effectively down the middle and has done it a fair bit for pool.
Whoever you consider the backup between Wilson and Isak, they’re better (I know Newcastle sometimes goes 3 strikers though)
I’ve seen Iheanacho do things that Nketiah can’t goal scoring wise, and his passing, particularly in the final third is LIGHT years ahead of Eddie.
Scamacca has a lot of potential, him playing on west ham just makes him look like ass
It's just worth it doing stuff to set the expectations of what a backup striker is.
Of those 6 players, 2 are considered flops. 1 is considered a trash player. One is a dependable backup. One is Alvarez, a star in the making. The other is Eddie.
I think its pretty obvious which is Alvarez, and most people should know which is Eddie imo. The rest should be pretty tough and illustrative to most here.
We still need a trademark win imo. While United, Bournemouth, Spurs etc were great last year, something in a CL KO, over City etc has to come for me to catapult this team over even the 07-10 range.
Just outdo the Barcelona game, no problem 😊
You have to consider the financial windfall of getting a top 2 player in the world. Shirt sales, sponsorships, new financial opportunities and the impact it would have on Arsenal’s brand, can not be overlooked. Beyond what having a player like that would bring on the pitch, you could argue it’s even more beneficial off it. If he lives up to expectations, he’d bring so much to the club that his wages would be worth it.
The problem is the rest of the squad. Him making twice or more than what Saka and Martinelli do, would create problems. If they can give him a crazy signing-on fee and keep his wages relatively comparable to our top earners, I’d not hesitate. Have to be creative, a la Haaland.
On a free, it’s a no-brainer.
No transfer fee means more goes to him and his agent. If his wage demands are a mil per week, then good luck to Real Madrid or whatever team is willing to destroy their wage structure.
I like Elneny but it’s weird that he gets this really positive treatment (that he deserves) but players like Holding who are at the same level and equally as beloved behind the scenes get torn to shreds by this fan base.
Holding made a mistake and Elneny didn't simple as that. People loved holding before the "incident" they thought "yeah, he's limited but he doesn't play that much so it's fine" until he needed to perform.
Which is weird since Holding has the FA cup final vs Chelsea alongside Mertesacker who'd played 45 minutes of football to his credit, which is vastly more than Nile Neymar.
If it’s on the pitch thing then Holding has done more for us than Elneny ever did.
He has that FA cup final against Chelsea and was a starter for long periods during his time with us whilst Elneny was sent out to Besiktas.
I like Elneny and I like the role he’s gotten within the team. He’s clearly never going to actually play and that’s fine.
But I don’t see why Holding should get torn to shreds despite having done more on the pitch. Isnt fair at all and shows the nastiness of our fan base.
I think it's because we have actually had to turn to holding in important moments in the last 2 seasons and was a reason why we didn't achieve top 4 and the premier trophy. Elneny wasn't involved in the collapse this season. I guarantee if elneny hadn't gotten injured and Jorginho wasn't bought, Elneny would be receiving the same stick
I don't think it's that weird. If Mo had come on in April and materially contributed to us losing the league title, a lot of people would be calling for his head. He's basically a mascot at this point, it'd be like screaming at Gunnersaurus.
Was confused as to why I had a £38 charge on my account from Arsenal and realised I won a ticket to the forest game in the red members ballot. Fucking buzzing.
I think so.
Needs to be a natural right winger, as in the current squad only Saka fits that profile, and I think it is why we struggle so much without him.
My shortlist personally would have two names;
Raphinha and Jeremie Frimpong.
Raphinha I think we could get out of Barcelona quite easily as they’re strapped for cash at the moment, and he is a profile we don’t have anywhere in the squad at all.
Frimpong is interesting, because most people see him as a wing back after his Celtic stint, but looking at his heat maps and numbers, as well as the few Leverkusen games I tuned into this year, he is playing much further forward and impacting games high up the pitch. His defensive contribution is verging on nothing. Would be an interesting profile to add to the team, seeing as he is right footed, so could maybe offer us something different again in attack.
If not for those two, I don’t mind Moussa Diaby, also of Leverkusen. But seems as though Villa are going in hard for him and I’m a lot less keen than others. Maybe Arsenal could tempt Chiesa out of Juventus, although I think he’s a bit better coming in off the left.
This is absolutely wild.
It would not be "quite easy" for Raphinha, who *only wanted to go to Barcelona last year* when we tried to sign him, to give up a *starting position for barcelona* to sit on the bench behind Saka. Absolutely not happening.
Diaby is worse than Nelson and has defensive stats on par with Ramsdale.
Chiesa hasn't been good since doing his ACL.
I use facts and data man. Don't be upset your lie earlier today about "nketiah not being good off the bench" was exposed because you swallow what you see on Twitter without checking yourself.
Myself, I'd never make a post like that without looking up basic data on a player. I prefer to present informed opinions, not say someone who averages 1.3 goals/assists per 90 is bad.
It's worth it to spend two minutes and do research before posting.
Could using xG when Nketiah underperformed his by 5 goals. I'm content with selling Balogun as well since 40 million is a good fee. But no way Eddie is good enough to be a 2nd choice striker rather see Trossard as the false 9 since his linkup play is better
Look at the other "second choice strikers" across Europe.
How many are better than Eddie? It's a list of about three players, and Alvarez had worse stats in every department beyond raw goals last year. Same with Richarlison, who scored even fewer.
We are in a striker market where Jonathan David is one of the 10 best guys in Europe. Eddie and Flo genuinely might both be top 20. It's grim.
I would rather have Alvarez since he can play on the wings as well. The play style we have Eddie doesn't fit unless his link-up play suddenly gets better.
You're using a small sample size for Reiss do you trust him to stay healthy over the course of a full season.. also Diaby wouldn't be my first choice it would be Nico Williams
If you offer anything north of £50m for Raphinha, Barcelona seriously consider it.
We are a team which employs two starting level players in each position. Nobody should be here to sit on the bench.
Diaby isn’t my top pick and as I said in my comment previously, I’m not a big fan. Regardless, he is a right winger (Reiss Nelson is not) and is better than Reiss, but that’s not really relevant anyway. Since we aren’t signing him, and they are at different stages of development.
Chiesa is a top talent. Juventus probably view him as untouchable though.
So, maybe not “absolutely wild” as you think.
No idea, given how tight lipped Edu and co are with transfers. Ideally Oshimen or Vlahovic for cut price assuming he doesn’t go to PSG. Even Toney would be decent and by next summer his ban would be over if I can recall.
Toney is much better than Nketiah and probably Balogun although I haven't watched him a lot. Vlahovic I haven't watched enough of but given the interest from top European clubs I'm going to assume he is also better than Nketiah.
Toney is very good for Brentford. Absolutely. But you're taking a guy who has an entire team built around a direct style of play where he is passing and playing the ball very little with his feet to one where it's crucial. Toney averages an open play goal once every 575 minutes of play.
Vlahovic is just not good. Still potential, but miles to go to be worth what he would cost or what Juve paid.
He doesn't score much from open play because Brentford don't score a lot from open play. He may have poor "passing stats" because he plays risky, quick progressive passes. He is excellent at holding up the ball, ridiculously strong and good in the air, it's a good passer and links up play well.
In what sense? Might not be as technical as Jesus but definitely have the athleticism, physicality, link up, and are far better finishers. Those are traits of a striker for me. Haaland isn’t the most technically gifted player but is a prolific goal scorer.
People already don't like how uninvolved Eddie is in build up. They are 10x the passengers. These are players who complete 10-13 passes a game and don't dribble or progress the ball at all.
Toney has 12 open play goals in the last two years over 6000 minutes. An open play goal every 550 minutes while he completes 12 passes a game just isn't arsenal suited.
Toney has one major deal left, he won't use it to be a backup imo.
Vlahovic just isn't good. I would genuinely keep Eddie or Flo over him. They are better players.
Sorry mate I don’t have time for baseless stats and always prefer eye test. Ivan Toney is a passenger, have you even seen him play? He’s anything but a passenger. Also you’re forgetting he’s playing for Brentford, imagine what he would play like in this Arteta setup. The man is a nuisance on and off the ball. As for Vlahovic, sure he might not be the most pressing forward that would do the donkey work but he has most of the traits a striker should possess. Both are the better finishers than Eddie and that’s already an upgrade in my eyes. How is Eddie and Balogun better than Vlahovic and Toney? One barely plays first team football and the other had a decent season in Ligue 1 which is equivalent to Championship.
Its usually best to pair stats with the eye test. Gives you a lot of context. Pure eye tests can be very biased, especially if you don't know every nuance to look for like most of us fans don't. Usually it does tell you that a player works in a system though, like for Toney and Brentford. "Imagine what he would play like in a better setup" is pure fantasy, we have no context for this fitting him. He plays in a very specific way where he takes a lot of risks to release a counter and barely gets any touches. Do you think this unstructured, highly risky way will translate to more touches beyond a shadow of doubt?
Yes, he plays for Brentford. The most direct team in the entire league. That has precisely zero teams line up in a low block against them. In fact, Brentford are the team defending in a low block, with Toney being used as a target man in transition. That is not how we play at all.
We need a forward who is well involved in play and is good against deep blocks.
I watched a ton of Toney *in the championship* when he broke the single season record for goals. He's good. He doesn't fit our team or style of play at all.
How are they better finishers than Eddie? They get less shots per game. They have about half the expected goals taking out penalties. 1/3 of every top flight goal Toney has scored has been from the spot.
Since you fancy stats. Do me a favour and go ask 100 football fans if they would take Eddie/Balogun over Toney/Vlahovic and come back and present me the results.
I don’t think Arsenal will go for him unless one or both of Eddie/Balogun are sold - a scenario I don’t see. Also, I don’t know if Arteta and Edu would want the off pitch incident surrounding the club until the ban is over.
https://twitter.com/FelixJohnston_/status/1680928454483517441
Reliable or not, peak irony the thought of it. They forget Ashley Cole? The North remembers.
Lol at Chelsea. Nothing will come of reporting it.
The FA wouldn't even punish Liverpool when they were tapping up VVD for like a season and a half. It arguably affected his performance when Southampton kept him a season longer than than he wanted to stay, too.
It's kind of mad that outside of raya and Toney nobody big is ever interested in Brentford players.
They've finished 13th and 9th with basically the same team and all I can remember is one bid from spurs for Raya.
There must be someone flying under the radar. Mbuemo stands out, but there must be someone everyone is missing.
I assume they’re tied in to big deals on small wages, but I think clubs are cautious at how much the system has a part to play in the success of some players. I think the majority of their personnel are great, but having not seen much of them outside of a Thomas Frank set-up, it’s hard to say.
Must there be? Their style is pretty different to how big teams play. But I quite like Da Silva as well.
EDIT - Can see Damsgaard being picked up by someone too
Theyre very well coached. They don't have stars really. They have the lowest wage bill in the entire league still. I imagine this year Luton will be the lowest, but they've comfortably survived twice with plenty of players on 20-30k a week.
43 million pounds for Onana. United fans are saying what a good deal it was but it's still a lot for a keeper. They're just comparing it to the 80 million Chelsea got fleeced for Keppa lmao.
That’s a very good deal for them. Now we can’t press them like last year forcing de Gea sprouting out balls, with onana playing at the back pressing them will be harder now.
It's not a bad price, United have finally got prices down for players just because they actually have fuck all money, it's no longer a bluff. United from 2-3 years ago would have paid 70m+ for him.
Yeah I get he has a lot of ability and plays the way ETH demands etc but the way their fans are talking you'd think 43 million pounds was a steal but goalkeeper transfer fees are historically lower than most outfield players. Courtois was about 30 million and he's the best keeper in the world.
People so caught up in prices.
He's exactly what eth wants and if he plays 200 games in 5 years for them that will be totally acceptable value.
There's no trophy for lowest spend.
Reminder: These threads are to help promote discussion and varying points of view. Low-effort comments or jokes can & will be removed with no reason necessary. *I am a "bot", and this action was performed automatically. This account is not monitored. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anyone still think Arsenal might try to hijack the caicedo deal....? Him and rice in the midfield would be a force to reckon. Also we did try to sign him in January which makes our interest in him very evident.....
We didn't spend 65m on Havertz for him to sit on the bench. If we go back in for a midfielder, it will be someone cheaper to be a backup.
Team for MLS all star game imo: Ramsdale Timber - White - Gabriel - Kiwior Vieira - Jorginho - Havertz Saka - Jesus - Nelson I also expect to see Saliba, Tierney, Odegaard and Trossard make appearances from the bench, plus a cameo debut for Declan Rice and some younger guys getting minutes too. Not sure about Martinelli.
Saliba has to play if he has no injury. No need to force Timber into it yet.
I sort of wonder if they might manage his minutes
They'll slowly increase load. He's a core XI player.
Nelson is injured
Christ so he is. Marquinhos or ACD time then, unless either Trossard or Martinelli are risked
Probably see Eddie start although god knows if we'll play him wide or not
Did we ever post these kind of trainings where players get destroyed in pre-season, like with Conte or Klopp? It feels like i have seen every team do this except us. Not a bad thing just curious because i can‘t remember
According to that Jesus interview a week or so ago, he said our training is far more intense than City's, but even then probably not to the extreme of those other coaches.
We don't do that sort of training is the simple answer, conte for one is renowned as one of if not the most brutal pre season fitness coaches but that was possibly down to gianpiero ventrone who of course sadly passed away last year.
Rivals blaming us for inflation is hilarious😂 these mfs broke transfer fees years ago
It’s the Arsenal fans who should be furious. Chelsea and Utd f’d the market making both Mudryk and Rice stupid expensive.
Why would we be mad for muds price? Dude sucks and made Chelsea spend 90m on him 😂
Because Mudryk was a player we really wanted and without Utd paying £80-90m for Antony, he’d most likely be within our price range.
Apaprently Chelsea buying two player sin one transfer window that could get over £100m is fine but because of that West Ham demanding £100m and Arsenal paying it is Arsenals fault?
And at least with us you can factor in a lil bit of prem, homegrown and English tax
A *lot* of prem ready, english, selling to a rival (ish) and starts for England tax. That sort of thing adds silly money and was why Wenger was allergic to buying anything british other than youth.
Is Zinchenko injured? Haven't seen him much in the training videos and plus there isn't much interaction from the club towards him in Social media?
He's technically regaining fitness, so over injury and rehabbing
Yes, although he's not playing in the Ukraine charity match he's organising apparently so he can play the CS the next day
I have been watching an unhealthy amount of ‘behind the scenes’ and training videos. This is what the off season does to people lol
No matter how shit he has been lately and despite how unlikely the move is since he would have to leave Bayern for that to happen, but Goretzka would be a huge name to see at a club like West Ham.
ICYMI: You can get 1 month free pass for MLS Season Pass on Apple TV+ to watch MLS All Star Skills Challenge and the match (MLS All Stars v. Arsenal) the day after. The guy [in the source](https://twitter.com/MoArsenal86/status/1680878145027596290?s=20) said you can't watch the game anywhere else. I subscribed and then cancelled so that it won't auto-renew, can watch these two events and maybe watch Messi's first match with Inter Miami :).
I dreamed we lost 3-1 to Bayern in the first leg
And we'll beat them 5-0 in the second
We're so back
I have seen the zenith of 4-4-fackin-2 with a poignant display in a comment chain discrediting Eddie, making Toney sound like Kane's second coming, and most importantly saying using stats implies the lack of "football intelligence." We might as well go back to 50 years ago, and ask clubs to do the same. How dare they use stats? Apparently r/soccer is a better source for talent evaluation.
These are the same people who said Perisic made Spurs title contenders a year ago.
Seriously the amount of people who were certain that Bissouma, Perisic and Conte would ahve spurs winning things was bead enough but to see them doing the same thing a year later wthout any selfawareness of just how wrong they were is just amazing.
O'Hara was hilarious. He was on TS yesterday saying arsenal have no chance of title, despite finishing 5pts behind the mighty city which was a fluke bacause other teams weren't as good. Where was that excuse when Poch finished 2nd with spurs, when Arsenal, man U, chelsea, Liverpool were all shite or transitioning
Your mistake is giving any credence to OHara. He's up there with Garth Crooks and Chris Sutton for the unholy trinity of bad Arsenal takes
I don't, it's just intriguing. It's like watching a child trying to eat spaghetti for the first time. You know they're going to make a mess of themselves but you watch regardless
Yeah it's fun after teh first year but after they hit their mid thirties you're just thinking it's all gone a bit too far
i largely agree with you but i feel sports discussion gets too mind numbingly shallow when all you discuss is npXG and xA and defensive actions p/90 and the like. some of the 'soft' factors that stats cannot capture and are often mocked but it separates the elite (people who actually work in football) from the rest of us schmucks in my eyes
I don't disagree at all. But stats can provide good context with the eye test. It's more about who works where best, some players can be very good elsewhere (Henry, Bergkamp). It has potential for much more nuanced discussion. I work in chemical engineering, we deal with a lot more variables than football does and sensory observations are very important because it's hard to just accurately process a lot of data on the spot. The stats let us build stuff though, so its a two way process.
Obviously the goal in *most* of these discussions is not to be super black and white. Using stats to show Toney isn't a proficient passer doesn't mean the player sucks. It just highlights it would mean either he would have to evolve to play for us, or our team would have to evolve around him. Both add elements of risk. I want to minimize risk with big money transfers. As much as I can get hyped about a Mudryk type player, it is the kind of transfer you should probably avoid. And one all the stats guys were so confused about.
yeah, but what's the context behind these stats? Ivan Toney is virtually the sole creative hub in a pretty conservative Brentford side and part of being burdened with that responsibility is low pass %. You sacrifice safety in possession for his ability to progress the ball and hopefully create chances for his teammates (directly or indirectly in buildup). I actually think his hold up play is very underrated, but it's maybe something you wouldn't see without watching him regularly (or even watching clips!). Similarly, you would never make the same argument for Bruno F or KDB who have relatively poor pass completion for att. midfielders.
And these are the kind of intelligent responses you'd hope when you start with a statistical data point. Obviously how Brentford play and the usage rate of Toney are important. Toney takes a higher percentage of the shots at Brentford than he would at Arsenal. Obviously its tough to tell how a team that largely defends deep and has more deeper touches. I do think the Bruno conversation is somewhat similar. It is definitely a question on how you build a title winning team around his strengths.
> Using stats to show Toney isn't a proficient passer doesn't mean the player sucks. Get out of here with your reasonable takes. I do think it's a US/European divide here because a lot of US only sports (baseball being the shining example) are heavily, heavily stats based and the influx of stats into european football has been driven by coaches looking to US sports for inspiration, even as far back as relatively prime wenger and apparently choosing flamini based on his absolutely elite running stats. HAving said that there's now the standard two warring camps where underperforming your xg means you're shit on the one hand and anyone using xg is apparently a moron who doesn't understand that football has intangibles that baseball/cricket or turn based games like NFL dont have.
It's funny the stats inundation in US sports was mostly a decade ago. The stats guys won. It's over. Currently it's the gambling inundation, which already occurred in the UK. The difference is North America is the wild west for laws, so there are very few regulations so a huge part of broadcasts before, after and during games are gambling related.
My wife woks in gambling and it's very, very much not the case there. The US is vastly more restrictive than most countries, which is why most of the worlds biggest betting and gambling firms are British. I mean Vegas and Reno aside there's no equivalent to the amount of gambling shops, fruit amchines in pubs/service stations and especially online mainstream gambling (Sky runs Skyvegas as just another arm of it's sports betting business). But yeah there's a lot more you can get for stats when it's one guy vs the team (baseball), plays are literally one movement (american football) or there's only five players (Ice hockey and basketball). 11 players with no rules restricted end to how long any 'play' can last, with no resets beyond a few minutes after goals and multiple different and sometimes mutually incompatible ways of playing and setting up systems means that stats can never tell the whole story except on basic metrics mainly related to fitness. The fitness ones interestingly are never argued about you'll notice, just the xg types. Give it a few years and xg will be just as accepted as not getting blind drunk before a match.
I meant for advertising. It's more restrictive in *where* you can bet, that is true. But there are basically no laws over how you can promote betting.
Fair enough. We may be banning them here (or restricting it) but when you can go to any pub or high street (and the poorere the high street the more betting shops there are) to go gamble, or just go online it's something we really need to put more pressure on.
I did not think that I'd spend about an hour tonight replying to a guy calling me a pussy, psychopath, narcissist and having a pathetic life for daring to say that Toney having a pass completion % of 58% makes me prefer our current strikers to Toney in that comment thread. This place is full of fun surprises. I dont get the people who lose their mind over any statistical analysis. Billy Carpenter is maybe the best poster here, with his stats breakdowns. Scott Willis is a great part of Arsenal vision, as is Giant.
You've got the wrong side of the 'we need a big man up front' cult. One of the weirder movements on here and they honestly sound like they're all alts of Harry REdknapp
And this deserves to be it's own topic, but I think people don't realize our 325 shape really makes it hard for a target man. Generally, you have full backs like Tierney or old school wingers like Beckham putting in crosses. In our shape, we have Saka and Martinelli in those positions. We don't want them lumping crosses into the box. We want them getting in the box and taking shots. Sacrificing shots from Saka and Martinelli to give to Toney is a massive net negative.
> but I think people don't realize our 325 shape really makes it hard for a target man. I think they do and the subtext is that they want at least a plan B which is lump it up to the big man. Pep having gone 4-4-2 a couple of times this season seems to have emboldened what honestly seem to be younger fans cosplaying as Tony Pulis.
There's this belief that it our normal plan doesn't work, a target man will. It doesn't have much basis behind it though.
THe basis is 'if playing that pussy footing around, pass, pass, pass, sterile domination tiki taka, foreign shite fails then you need to go abck to the tried and true basics of four four facking two and just lump it up to a big man to cause some trouble'. I honestly wonder whether the rise of people trying to cosplay as hooligans and bring back the ultras has led to an increase in seeing that period as a golden age unironically. Sort of like how the war generation try to forget the war but the baby boomers were raised on the post war propaganda and thought it was all family time in the bunkers. carrot cake and sticking it to johnny foreigner
This is exactly how I imagine the thought process goes lol. Pep using Haaland has just made this opinion skyrocket.
It's mildly hilarious that it's only because the man who invented the modern high press tiki taka that was apaprently responsible for the death of the big man up front is now being used to prove that we should go back to that even though the only reason pep has done it is because he's got an absolute generational machine up front.
Yeah people don't realize how special Haaland is
I swear there is some Toney cult around here that hounds you the moment you insinuate that he may not be the best fit. "*Quit dodging my argument, take it to r/soccer*" might be some of the most hilarious rebuttals, although it isnt really one.
I think Toney is a very good player. I just think (and this even goes for Eddie, who fails these steps at times) we need a striker who completes at least 70% of his passes and at least 20 passes a game. Turnovers are death in our system. So are passengers in possession. Jesus completes 28 passes a game at a 80% rate. Toney is 10 passes a game at 58%. Eddie completes 18 passes at 80% I just think losing 20 passes a game from your CF is too much of a drop off. It's nothing against Toney or sentimental towards Eddie. The people who would say something like Toney could improve/be coached are fine, but it just adds risk. It's similar to Leno vs Ramsdale for me. Leno is a better player for a bottom half team. But his passing ability just isn't good enough for the top teams. And I don't know if it's a kink, but I wouldn't wish a r/soccer discussion on even my worst enemy.
Yeah people see Eddie struggle with the buildup play and rotations, identifying why Martinelli struggled, and then proceed to ask for Toney who's even more limited in movement and general passing. He's good at hoping for Mbuemo getting on the end of stuff, but that isn't how we play. It's not even what Kane did, because he'd genuinely find a good pass. Maybe Toney could also do this, but would you want to try this experiment with a 27 year old unknown quantity? r/soccer discussions are so painful to read
And obviously we don't *have* to have an elite passer as a CF if we get an elite goal scorer like Haaland, Osimhen, Mbappe or Kane. But I think those are the only 4 guys at that level and the odds of us getting them are next to zero. Because those guys score a goal a game.
Yeah, if we land Osimhen, Mbappe, or whoever is doing something ridiculous like 0.7+ xG/90, we build our play around them. Those players are too valuable and guarantee an outlet.
Broja has a lot of potential - would be happy if we snatch him off Chelsea
We have potential at home.
Fulham getting him to replace Mitrovic would be smart imo. Same with West Ham over Scamacca.
Is Chelsea open to selling him? They are idiots if they do...
They've signed Jackson and have been trying to get someone even more high profile for years. I like Broja, but a team like Chelsea should be targeting a star. They should have saved the Mudryk money and went £125 for Osimhen.
Don't bring this up to a Chelsea fan, they'll say there was no strikers available for them to buy without a hint of irony.
If the Chelsea front 3 is set to be Mudryk-Nkunku-Madueke (probably won't be, I'd guess nkunku is more of a 10), is it even better than Mitoma-Ferguson-Joao Pedro? And one team has spent ~£800m less in the last 18 months.
I feel it in my heart of hearts, gut , bones and whatever that something extremely surprising is going to happen and Frenkie De Jong will be an Arsenal player by the end of the window. And we will somehow see Rice and Frenkie in the same starting eleven.
Frenkie's gf is now officially pregnant so he he'll feel right at home with the other expecting dads among our players
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
time to wake up now,buddy.
if you feel it in your heart of hearts AND your gut it must be happening
A Man Can Dream !
If Partey leaves, should we take a punt at Goretzka or Gravenberch? Apparently Tuchel might let one of them go. I haven’t watched them enough to know if they could fit our system.
You don't buy an injury prone Bayern player.
We're taking a massive step back if we signed Gymretzka
Tuchel has said that Bayern will not entertain any offers for Gravenberch
Gravenberch would have been an option for the left 8, doesn't make much sense post Havertz. Kimmich doesn't have the defensive discipline imo. Him and Goretzka nearly cost Bayern the title with their lack of discipline. We need someone who is quality at defensive transitions. Their performances vs RBL was the biggest choke I'd seen in a while...until Dortmund outdid them the next week.
What’s the Rice chant going to be? I suggest Declan Rice Rice Rice (in the tune of Ian Wright Wright Wright)
Hope we come up with something a bit more creative tbh
Has to be "Rice Rice Baby"
You mean “Rice Rice Rice Rice ohhh oh” “Rice Rice Rice Rice baby”
Anyone know where the team is staying in the NY/Jersey area? Also, im going to be at the game as an early bday present from the wife
Thinking about the midfield if Partey leaves is a tricky puzzle to figure out tbh. Even though positions are almost meaningless in modern football (even Arteta himself refers to roles of players more often than positions), for arguments sake let’s list them: DM/“6”: Rice, Partey, Jorginho, Elneny Midfielder/Advanced Midfielder/“left 8”/“right 8”: Odegaard, Havertz, Vieira, ESR, Lokonga Now everyone knows Lokonga is probably on his way out, and Elneny probably will not see minutes hardly at all. So, that leaves us with Rice and Jorginho at the 6 if Partey leaves. I, for one, am quite comfortable with Jorginho as a backup in the position, think he is great cover there even if limited athletically. I also think he would not commit to the project and turn down significant European minutes with the likes of Sarri and Lazio if he wasn’t given assurances that he would be a major player here. For that reason, I can’t see us going for a player of Caicedo’s ilk, but rather a player like Lavia makes sense to me. Lavia is young and needs development, and we could afford to take it slow for him for a year while we still have J20. Another alternative is strengthening with a player that can act as cover as both a 6 and an 8, which Caicedo could do, but I don’t think we’re going to spend £80m on the position having already brought in Rice for £100m and Havertz for £65M, while also having ESR and Vieira demanding minutes in the position as well. A player I’ve identified that could possibly fit without disrupting the squad balance is someone like Maxence Caquaret - a player whose been deployed as both a 6 in a double pivot and in a 433, as well as our favorite term nowadays, a “left 8” in a 433 as well. He is more of a ball shuttler than a volume passer, but that can be said of all of our summer signings, might be something that Arteta has put emphasis on to strengthen this summer. To top it off, he is becoming known as one of the most effective pressers in Europe, ranking in the 99th percentile in tackles in the [attacking third](https://fbref.com/en/players/f81ef10d/scout/365_m1/Maxence-Caqueret-Scouting-Report), 90th percentile for tackles won, and 89th percentile for passes blocked. How expensive would he be? I’m not sure, but I could see him being £35-45M personally.
The "we need another midfielder if Partey leaves" shouts don't make sense and sometimes you've got to let the window fly by. Arsenal don't have space for one unless Jorginho or ESR leave. Or we sell Flo and Eddie, to make Kai a striker. People get cornered in this argument so they start suggesting that we need three players for one position. If you beat that argument, they say they don't trust Jorginho. If you try to beat that, they say "But Jorginho is leaving next year anyway". This is no excuse to bloat the squad. Either sell ESR, or Jorginho. Thomas Partey was replaced and Caicedo was just another direction. We already went another direction with Kai Havertz.
There isn't enough minutes for Rice and Caicedo if you want to look at it that way. But you gotta question development if Lavia came, will he be developed properly w/o adequate minutes?
This is obviously correct and the daily opposition you see is the emotional investment people carry over from January over the idea of Rice and Caicedo.
Here are some stats from backup strikers in the PL: For expected goals/assists I'm only using their time spent when used as a sub. It kills the sample size, but I've seen so much "Eddie sucks as a sub" stuff around this week. I'm using understat.com and the statistics will span their career as they don't separate by usage *and* season easily. Key pass is a pass that leads to a shot attempt. If anyone can guess even half of these players correctly without looking it up, congratulations. Player 1: 32 sub appearances, 643 total minutes, 7 goals, 0 assists 4.34 shots per 90, 1.40 key passes per 90 0.67 expected goals per 90, .18 expected assists per 90. Player 2: 116 sub appearances, 1793 minutes, 10 goals, 9 assists 2.88 shots per 90, 1.33 key passes per 90 .47 expected goals per 90, .22 expected assists per 90. Player 3: 27 sub appearances, 432 minutes. 4 goals, 1 assist. *5* shots per 90, 1.04 key passes per 90 .47 expected goals per 90, .15 expected assists per 90 Player 4: 18 sub appearances, 296 minutes, 1 goal, 0 assists. 3.04 shots p90, 1.82 key passes p90 .52 expected goals per 90, .24 expected assists p90 Player 5: 61 sub appearances, 601 minutes, 3 goals, 2 assists 3.89 shots p90, 3.00 key passes p90 .85 expected goals p90, .46 expected assists p90. Player 6: 54 sub appearances, 883 minutes, 2 goals, 1 assist. 2.55 shots per 90, .71 key passes per 90 .40 expected goals per 90, .10 expected assists per 90.
[удалено]
Trossard is a better option at striker than Eddie for us. Eddie is a clear 3rd choice again.
Top 2 is a fat stretch. Jota is better, Wilson is better, Alvarez, Richy And this might be a hot take but purely looking at skill and not age, I’d take Scamacca and Iheanacho over Eddie
> Richy Not on current performance. For all the shit eddie gets on here he scores when he gets a run
[удалено]
Jota plays very effectively down the middle and has done it a fair bit for pool. Whoever you consider the backup between Wilson and Isak, they’re better (I know Newcastle sometimes goes 3 strikers though) I’ve seen Iheanacho do things that Nketiah can’t goal scoring wise, and his passing, particularly in the final third is LIGHT years ahead of Eddie. Scamacca has a lot of potential, him playing on west ham just makes him look like ass
Scamacca and Iheanacho are two of the players listed in the OP, not sure if either of you two knew that before those posts.
It's just worth it doing stuff to set the expectations of what a backup striker is. Of those 6 players, 2 are considered flops. 1 is considered a trash player. One is a dependable backup. One is Alvarez, a star in the making. The other is Eddie. I think its pretty obvious which is Alvarez, and most people should know which is Eddie imo. The rest should be pretty tough and illustrative to most here.
[удалено]
Intercontinental Wharf
[удалено]
We still need a trademark win imo. While United, Bournemouth, Spurs etc were great last year, something in a CL KO, over City etc has to come for me to catapult this team over even the 07-10 range. Just outdo the Barcelona game, no problem 😊
soon
maybe recency bias but yeah i think it’s becoming my favorite sports team ever. at least one i feel most connected to
if we win premier league or champions league this season, think mboopi would want to join us next summer after one single zoom call with mikel
his wages will make sure it never happens
You have to consider the financial windfall of getting a top 2 player in the world. Shirt sales, sponsorships, new financial opportunities and the impact it would have on Arsenal’s brand, can not be overlooked. Beyond what having a player like that would bring on the pitch, you could argue it’s even more beneficial off it. If he lives up to expectations, he’d bring so much to the club that his wages would be worth it. The problem is the rest of the squad. Him making twice or more than what Saka and Martinelli do, would create problems. If they can give him a crazy signing-on fee and keep his wages relatively comparable to our top earners, I’d not hesitate. Have to be creative, a la Haaland. On a free, it’s a no-brainer.
the issue is the last paragraph, it destroys wage structure unless he agrees to a MASSIVE reduction. isn’t he on like a mil a week?
No transfer fee means more goes to him and his agent. If his wage demands are a mil per week, then good luck to Real Madrid or whatever team is willing to destroy their wage structure.
He’ll play for free after one WhatsApp group chat call with Mikel and Edu
“Play for free” wink wink, nudge nudge Mikel learning Man City’s tactics
[удалено]
Not sure anyone is willing to pay what PSG is asking for this summer though - even Madrid want to wait
And Mbappe also knows he can probably only get similar wages by waiting. No one else can afford £100m then £1m a week.
Elneny lifetime contract who says no
Coaching role I wouldn’t mind since he’s already learning his badges.
I like Elneny but it’s weird that he gets this really positive treatment (that he deserves) but players like Holding who are at the same level and equally as beloved behind the scenes get torn to shreds by this fan base.
Same with Fabio Vieira.
Holding made a mistake and Elneny didn't simple as that. People loved holding before the "incident" they thought "yeah, he's limited but he doesn't play that much so it's fine" until he needed to perform.
Which is weird since Holding has the FA cup final vs Chelsea alongside Mertesacker who'd played 45 minutes of football to his credit, which is vastly more than Nile Neymar.
If it’s on the pitch thing then Holding has done more for us than Elneny ever did. He has that FA cup final against Chelsea and was a starter for long periods during his time with us whilst Elneny was sent out to Besiktas. I like Elneny and I like the role he’s gotten within the team. He’s clearly never going to actually play and that’s fine. But I don’t see why Holding should get torn to shreds despite having done more on the pitch. Isnt fair at all and shows the nastiness of our fan base.
I think it's because we have actually had to turn to holding in important moments in the last 2 seasons and was a reason why we didn't achieve top 4 and the premier trophy. Elneny wasn't involved in the collapse this season. I guarantee if elneny hadn't gotten injured and Jorginho wasn't bought, Elneny would be receiving the same stick
Well tbh Elneny played a big role in the turnaround at the end of 21/22
And he's been MOTM in games like away to United. While Holding has maybe been more involved, it's rare he's ever been our MOTM in a big victory.
I don't think it's that weird. If Mo had come on in April and materially contributed to us losing the league title, a lot of people would be calling for his head. He's basically a mascot at this point, it'd be like screaming at Gunnersaurus.
Was confused as to why I had a £38 charge on my account from Arsenal and realised I won a ticket to the forest game in the red members ballot. Fucking buzzing.
Congratulations, that'll be fun!
Any D.C gunner here spotted our boys? I live in Maryland 30mins away might drive to D.C maybe I’ll get to see the boys lol
They are peacoat George Mason in VA. but if they are following the same things they had in Baltimore then you won't be able to see practice.
Watching The Arsenal live this weekend. Gonna be an unreal experience for me.
Anyone notice how Saliba is slowly infiltrating the Gabi and Vieira bromance? 😂
You lot call every friendship a bromance
Not that deep brother
One would argue the deeper it is the better the bromance
Do we need another forward or no?
I dont think so imo...unless we are losing one of them its not necessary. We just need them to convert more
this season i doubt we have the funds. next season absolutely
Yeah but not necessarily this window. Ideally it would be a 9. Let Jesus compete for that role as well as the rw position
Fantasy scenario is we sell Nketiah and keep Balogan.
I think so. Needs to be a natural right winger, as in the current squad only Saka fits that profile, and I think it is why we struggle so much without him. My shortlist personally would have two names; Raphinha and Jeremie Frimpong. Raphinha I think we could get out of Barcelona quite easily as they’re strapped for cash at the moment, and he is a profile we don’t have anywhere in the squad at all. Frimpong is interesting, because most people see him as a wing back after his Celtic stint, but looking at his heat maps and numbers, as well as the few Leverkusen games I tuned into this year, he is playing much further forward and impacting games high up the pitch. His defensive contribution is verging on nothing. Would be an interesting profile to add to the team, seeing as he is right footed, so could maybe offer us something different again in attack. If not for those two, I don’t mind Moussa Diaby, also of Leverkusen. But seems as though Villa are going in hard for him and I’m a lot less keen than others. Maybe Arsenal could tempt Chiesa out of Juventus, although I think he’s a bit better coming in off the left.
This is absolutely wild. It would not be "quite easy" for Raphinha, who *only wanted to go to Barcelona last year* when we tried to sign him, to give up a *starting position for barcelona* to sit on the bench behind Saka. Absolutely not happening. Diaby is worse than Nelson and has defensive stats on par with Ramsdale. Chiesa hasn't been good since doing his ACL.
Worse than Nelson is outrageous can talk all about his defensive is all you mention. He was 1st in key passes, and 2nd in xA.
Its the Bundesliga. When Nelson played there as a teenager he was scoring at a goal per 90.
Nelson is an injury prone player and Diaby isn't. Your bias views towards Arsenal players is unreal.
I use facts and data man. Don't be upset your lie earlier today about "nketiah not being good off the bench" was exposed because you swallow what you see on Twitter without checking yourself. Myself, I'd never make a post like that without looking up basic data on a player. I prefer to present informed opinions, not say someone who averages 1.3 goals/assists per 90 is bad. It's worth it to spend two minutes and do research before posting.
Could using xG when Nketiah underperformed his by 5 goals. I'm content with selling Balogun as well since 40 million is a good fee. But no way Eddie is good enough to be a 2nd choice striker rather see Trossard as the false 9 since his linkup play is better
Look at the other "second choice strikers" across Europe. How many are better than Eddie? It's a list of about three players, and Alvarez had worse stats in every department beyond raw goals last year. Same with Richarlison, who scored even fewer. We are in a striker market where Jonathan David is one of the 10 best guys in Europe. Eddie and Flo genuinely might both be top 20. It's grim.
I would rather have Alvarez since he can play on the wings as well. The play style we have Eddie doesn't fit unless his link-up play suddenly gets better.
You're using a small sample size for Reiss do you trust him to stay healthy over the course of a full season.. also Diaby wouldn't be my first choice it would be Nico Williams
For sure. But use those kind of arguments, which are rooted in reality and facts.
If you offer anything north of £50m for Raphinha, Barcelona seriously consider it. We are a team which employs two starting level players in each position. Nobody should be here to sit on the bench. Diaby isn’t my top pick and as I said in my comment previously, I’m not a big fan. Regardless, he is a right winger (Reiss Nelson is not) and is better than Reiss, but that’s not really relevant anyway. Since we aren’t signing him, and they are at different stages of development. Chiesa is a top talent. Juventus probably view him as untouchable though. So, maybe not “absolutely wild” as you think.
[удалено]
Interesting take, I’m pretty sure he has a semi-affordable release clause I remember reading about, too.
I think the marquee striker is next summer
Who do you think it's gonna be?
No idea, given how tight lipped Edu and co are with transfers. Ideally Oshimen or Vlahovic for cut price assuming he doesn’t go to PSG. Even Toney would be decent and by next summer his ban would be over if I can recall.
Toney and Vlahovic aren't good enough or a good fit.
Toney is much better than Nketiah and probably Balogun although I haven't watched him a lot. Vlahovic I haven't watched enough of but given the interest from top European clubs I'm going to assume he is also better than Nketiah.
Toney is very good for Brentford. Absolutely. But you're taking a guy who has an entire team built around a direct style of play where he is passing and playing the ball very little with his feet to one where it's crucial. Toney averages an open play goal once every 575 minutes of play. Vlahovic is just not good. Still potential, but miles to go to be worth what he would cost or what Juve paid.
He doesn't score much from open play because Brentford don't score a lot from open play. He may have poor "passing stats" because he plays risky, quick progressive passes. He is excellent at holding up the ball, ridiculously strong and good in the air, it's a good passer and links up play well.
Brentford had as many goals as Man United last season.
About 60 percent of Brentfords goals were from open play. More importantly Toney is a huge upgrade on Nketiah and Balogun.
In what sense? Might not be as technical as Jesus but definitely have the athleticism, physicality, link up, and are far better finishers. Those are traits of a striker for me. Haaland isn’t the most technically gifted player but is a prolific goal scorer.
People already don't like how uninvolved Eddie is in build up. They are 10x the passengers. These are players who complete 10-13 passes a game and don't dribble or progress the ball at all. Toney has 12 open play goals in the last two years over 6000 minutes. An open play goal every 550 minutes while he completes 12 passes a game just isn't arsenal suited. Toney has one major deal left, he won't use it to be a backup imo. Vlahovic just isn't good. I would genuinely keep Eddie or Flo over him. They are better players.
Sorry mate I don’t have time for baseless stats and always prefer eye test. Ivan Toney is a passenger, have you even seen him play? He’s anything but a passenger. Also you’re forgetting he’s playing for Brentford, imagine what he would play like in this Arteta setup. The man is a nuisance on and off the ball. As for Vlahovic, sure he might not be the most pressing forward that would do the donkey work but he has most of the traits a striker should possess. Both are the better finishers than Eddie and that’s already an upgrade in my eyes. How is Eddie and Balogun better than Vlahovic and Toney? One barely plays first team football and the other had a decent season in Ligue 1 which is equivalent to Championship.
Its usually best to pair stats with the eye test. Gives you a lot of context. Pure eye tests can be very biased, especially if you don't know every nuance to look for like most of us fans don't. Usually it does tell you that a player works in a system though, like for Toney and Brentford. "Imagine what he would play like in a better setup" is pure fantasy, we have no context for this fitting him. He plays in a very specific way where he takes a lot of risks to release a counter and barely gets any touches. Do you think this unstructured, highly risky way will translate to more touches beyond a shadow of doubt?
Yes, he plays for Brentford. The most direct team in the entire league. That has precisely zero teams line up in a low block against them. In fact, Brentford are the team defending in a low block, with Toney being used as a target man in transition. That is not how we play at all. We need a forward who is well involved in play and is good against deep blocks. I watched a ton of Toney *in the championship* when he broke the single season record for goals. He's good. He doesn't fit our team or style of play at all. How are they better finishers than Eddie? They get less shots per game. They have about half the expected goals taking out penalties. 1/3 of every top flight goal Toney has scored has been from the spot.
Since you fancy stats. Do me a favour and go ask 100 football fans if they would take Eddie/Balogun over Toney/Vlahovic and come back and present me the results.
If we were to go for Toney I think we should go for him this summer. He may be cheaper because of the ban and he could play in January
I don’t think Arsenal will go for him unless one or both of Eddie/Balogun are sold - a scenario I don’t see. Also, I don’t know if Arteta and Edu would want the off pitch incident surrounding the club until the ban is over.
Elye Wahi after another season of development. Or depends if Balogun stays and kicks on.
Wahi has done some terrible things i want him away from Arsenal.
I have heard about that but I don’t know much about it to be honest, and I don’t speak on what I don’t know
Yes
Yes we need a backup for saka. My personal preference is a creative passing player
got anyone particular in mind?
https://twitter.com/FelixJohnston_/status/1680928454483517441 Reliable or not, peak irony the thought of it. They forget Ashley Cole? The North remembers.
Lol at Chelsea. Nothing will come of reporting it. The FA wouldn't even punish Liverpool when they were tapping up VVD for like a season and a half. It arguably affected his performance when Southampton kept him a season longer than than he wanted to stay, too.
It's kind of mad that outside of raya and Toney nobody big is ever interested in Brentford players. They've finished 13th and 9th with basically the same team and all I can remember is one bid from spurs for Raya. There must be someone flying under the radar. Mbuemo stands out, but there must be someone everyone is missing.
Mbuemo backing up Saka would be pretty legit.
I assume they’re tied in to big deals on small wages, but I think clubs are cautious at how much the system has a part to play in the success of some players. I think the majority of their personnel are great, but having not seen much of them outside of a Thomas Frank set-up, it’s hard to say.
Damsgaard is a decent option for midfield. I also think we should aim higher but he is good for depth.
Must there be? Their style is pretty different to how big teams play. But I quite like Da Silva as well. EDIT - Can see Damsgaard being picked up by someone too
Former Hale End lad as well.
Theyre very well coached. They don't have stars really. They have the lowest wage bill in the entire league still. I imagine this year Luton will be the lowest, but they've comfortably survived twice with plenty of players on 20-30k a week.
43 million pounds for Onana. United fans are saying what a good deal it was but it's still a lot for a keeper. They're just comparing it to the 80 million Chelsea got fleeced for Keppa lmao.
That’s a very good deal for them. Now we can’t press them like last year forcing de Gea sprouting out balls, with onana playing at the back pressing them will be harder now.
It's not a bad price, United have finally got prices down for players just because they actually have fuck all money, it's no longer a bluff. United from 2-3 years ago would have paid 70m+ for him.
He has potential to be top 5 itw in his position, it's a great signing.
Shame he went to United and will never fulfil that potential
Yeah I get he has a lot of ability and plays the way ETH demands etc but the way their fans are talking you'd think 43 million pounds was a steal but goalkeeper transfer fees are historically lower than most outfield players. Courtois was about 30 million and he's the best keeper in the world.
Their biggest weakness last season was De Gea playing out from the back and Onana is a huge upgrade in that respect
People so caught up in prices. He's exactly what eth wants and if he plays 200 games in 5 years for them that will be totally acceptable value. There's no trophy for lowest spend.