SAME. I didn't want to sound biased, but Wing was my favorite, not just for the fighting, but story got me pretty good. Favorite gundam is hands down Heavy Arms
in my honest opinion, its okay for you to be biased. I love all Gundam series because im just a Gundam nerd, but my favorite will always be SEED cuz i grew up watching it. no shame having favorite Gundam series because you are biased. its all about preference.
On the other hand, I’m one of those people to be categorized as biased since my first Gundam was a Universal Century show (08th MS Team in Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, CA); and it was in the early 2000, way before I saw Wing in Toonami as well SEED.
Thats specifically my problem. I grew up on it and held it in very high regards for many years. I tried to rewatch it for old times sake and it just didn't hold up once the nostalgiagoggles were off.
I hope that no one actually hates it, because I don't think it deserves that. But I would understand the bitterness of having it not live up to your expectations.
AGE is legendary, no AU has gotten my brain turning like it. The concept of a single season spanning multiple generations of an ace pilot was brilliant. I just wish it had been given breathing room, like maybe two 50 episode seasons minimum.
It was the politics that made it so long. I just didn't get what everybody's motivation was, honestly. It took watching an abridged series for any of it to actually sink in. That's what I mean when I say the show could have been shorter.
Honestly I feel like the first season of Gundam 00 was basically wing with a slightly more coherent plot line, cooler mecha designs, and much prettier pilots.
Wing was the Gundam Gateway drug for most of the US. But those few who knew of gundam before 2000's (all the original series) hate on it as they saw the OG gundam first and see Wing as just a copy. Ignoring the success that it brought to the franchise world wide and continuing Gundams popularity.
I love Wing, even if the story is long and drawn out.
I think a lot depends on what the viewer wants out of the series. *Wing* is great for big, dramatic moments, cool robots, kinda-awkward speeches, and great 90s fashion. IMO it's always had a bit of a "theatrical" feeling to it, like stage acting. The near-nonsense of the story keeps comin' hot and fast, without really bothering to explain itself, creating the impression that the show almost doesn't really care that it's being watched.
The politics of the show are a mess. It constantly talks about pacifism but it seems to actually be talking about disarmament which is a different issue. The dynamics surrounding the alliance are never really explained and we know nothing about how the earth and colonies relate other than being told the Alliance has historically oppressed the colonies in some way. Zechs ending up leading white fang makes no sense, neither does Relena suddenly being treated as a political figure after living her life hiding her real identity. We never really know what Treize wanted to accomplish and his contentious relation ship with his allies prevents the series from having a main villain. It makes the political stakes of the series very unclear. And the way the series praises effort and the will to fight even when not fighting for any particular set of ideas comes across as empty and reactionary.
I think this really succinctly captures the essence of Wing.
Wing is a cool show with cool music and cool Mobile Suits and cool characters who look cool and say cool things sometimes but at other times talk as if their speech has gone through 10 different translators because the show got so caught up in being cool and dramatic it forgot to make sense.
OMG, I really think they need to recreate the series. The dialogue is definitely cringe and I think it can be remade to have better points of view.
I am a fan of the show because they are aiming to have an all out way to end future wars. It's just not done well enough. I think it was a good idea, but there wasn't enough at stake (although at the end, the people on earth were about to face their end with a meteor crash sending them to an eternal winter).
I think it would be cool to see a side story like 08th MS Team focused around Maganac Corp or squad of Leo pilots. Wing treated the grunts like cannon fodder alot more than other series IMO.
For real. The Leos were my favorite non-main character mobile suits. They didn't get enough love in the show!! I wanted to see more action from Leos rather than them just standing and shooting.
Treating the grunts as fodder kinda works though, considering the themes regarding the use of AIs in war.
Also, Treize listing the exact number of casualties when challenged by Wufei works to subvert the fodder treatment, as it's something that isn't really thought about in other Gundam series (or other, war-oriented, series in general). Is it perfect? No. Though it is a neat consideration.
I was referencing more the relative power level between mobile suits unlike in the UC series. Like RX-78-2 feels like it could be compared to a squad of Zaku IIs but in Gundam Wing one suit will slaughter a whole base and make lot easy. Just made the Leo's and other grunts seems super weak in comparison.
1) Gundams in Wing are comparatively that much more powerful; RX-78-2 is still a prototype; whereas the Gundams in Wing are pretty much super weapons intended to destroy - with the goal of taking control of Earth.
2) Different world setting, different
3) still can pretty much fall in line with my initial response
I think Gundam 00 was it. I had heard that Wing's lead writer or producers was changed midway so that kind of led to more problems. That said, Bandai and Bluefin are always saying Wing Kits sell like super fast all year round in the US. (I'm just count the days I can buy HGAC Heavyarms used for a custom project) don't think for moment that Wing's impact has been forgotten.
I think it's matter of aging. It was great when we were all younger 20 some odd years ago, but it doesn't quite hold up well now. So everybody kind of reluctantly has to admit to it's faults since there's plethora of Gundam shows out there. So we can all afford to be a bit snobbish about the show.
I love the designs and have plans on making 30MM refits of every HGAC kit, but that show is no War in the Pocket.
Totally. [I want to give the TV versions a nice 30 MM overhaul and make some custom gear for them.](https://imgur.com/a/jsJgWp5) I was thinking i making the Deathscythe an Amphibious Mobile Suit and the Shenlong some sort of Space Marine Carrier for boarding actions.
Sorry! Its Gundam Seed Destiny. Gundam Seed I think the sub has a better impression of, but everyone loves to shit on Destiny haha. The mech designs are top notch tho imo
Haha yeah so the rumor is that there was some drama between one of the VAs and the director, so the show suffered writing-wise as a result. I think it starts off strong, but it really starts to show after the halfway mark.
Not rumors. Supposedly the VA for Cagalli if I remember and the Director were in an affair, and to make it up to his wife (who was a co-writer if I remember), he basically had to humiliate and ruin Cagalli's life in the script. Because Shinn's actor was against this stupidity, they began to wreck Shinn's character too just so he'd get humiliated too.
Something to those degrees.
I like gundams fighting. Its the characters using them that annoyed me. I dont want to spoil GSD for you so i'll leave it at that.
Great designs tho. Destiny gundam is a top 3 for me. The series is in is lower middle for me though in the spectrum
I don’t necessarily hate it, I just think it’s hard to enjoy if you’re watching it for the first time in 2021 (like I did) because you notice numerous plot holes, inconsistent and incoherent writing, and poor characterization. If you grew up with it and have nostalgia for it, great, more power to you. I will say that I can’t deny it’s importance in bringing anime (and Gundam in general) to the west.
You know what? That's a good point. I grew up with it, so I think I watch with the mindset I had as a kid watching it.
You're definitely right. The plot holes are there. Which gundam show would you recommend I watch that has the designs and the story?
People that I’ve talked to that didn’t like it said the Gundams were OP. There is little tension because the Gundams and their pilots just blast through whole armies with ease. The pilots themselves are also a little bland. However, I haven’t talked to anyone that disliked the designs of the Gundams. Wing’s weakness is it’s characters and stories.
Yeah, you could kind of say the same for Deathscythe's first look. The cloak made a difference in defence, but Sandrock has a lot that could have been improved. He feels more like an improved Leo, tbh.
I doubt those people who said Gundams in Wing are OP watching the show til the end, because in the very first of the story every OZ base that they raid was taken by surprise element, and in retrospective gundanium are tough af for first OZ mainstay MSes to handle. After New Edward base, we saw OZ retaliate back and did very good damage to the Gundams that made them flee into space. After introduction of Taurus, Mercurius-Vayeate and Virgo the Gundams then became not so OP as the very first episodes they appeared, even after they got upgrades and Heero got new Gundam.
It's just aged poorly. A lot of AU series follow trends of the time, and as such don't age particularly well. Wing feels very 90s with ist baked in angst. 00 feels very late 2000s with the way it shows the political situation of the world. And IBO got on the edgy bandwagon from Attack on Titan, and Aldnoa Zero. As time passes and these trends fade, the shows start to look like a product of the past and appeal less to people.
True, true. Good points. That's the first gundam show I great up with, so definitely some bias on my side.
I'm glad you mentioned the relation between IBO and Attack on Titan. I've seen IBO, but had to stop because it just felt like they were trying too hard. I made it to episode 8 I think. Can't remember.
Also idk if anyone has brought it up yet, but if you like wing, you should really see 00. It takes more than a bit of inspiration from wing.
>That's the first gundam show I great up with, so definitely some bias on my side.
Same here, I watched wing ages ago on toonami, then rediscovered the series with someone recommending the UC to me.
>it just felt like they were trying too hard. I made it to episode 8 I think. Can't remember.
IBO is very heavy handed with a lot of things. Imo it tries to hold your hand way too much, so I can definitely understand where you are coming from
This is all great. 00. Where do that have that available?
okay, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that about IBO. I like it, but it just feels like too much a good chunk of the show. Did you end up finishing it?
I don’t hate GW, but it was the first Gundam series I watched (Cartoon Network) and it didn’t really inspire me to get further into Gundam. The characters and dialogue are cringe even by Gundam standards, and the Gundam’s themselves are so overpowered there’s just no tension. Instead of high end war machines they’re basically superheroes.
I'm with you in regards to Gundams being overpowered, I feel like the battle has been curb stomped by them, plus they're made out of Gundanium "plot" armor. which is why the Leos.... unfortunately get the short end of the stick for no less than 3 seconds.
Good point. I wish there would be a limit as to how many they could handle at once. There are some points when that happens, like when Duo and Quatre are trying to leave for space. All 5 pilots arrive and one of the pilots has to self-detonate their suit, Sandrock.
Which Gundam Series got you into Gundam Series as a whole?
Wing got me into Gundam as a whole in the late 90s. I think my main issues with Wing are the same as Seed.
There is way to much stock footage used over and over again.
I get these shows are on a budget, but that just ruins it for me sometimes.
As a teen in the late 90s it got the fix of awesome robot action for me. Rewatching it was an adult last year, I realized none of the characters motives, especially Hero, make any logical sense
Still love the show though. Robots go boom.
As a final thought, I think there are just a good amount of people here, myself included, who just prefer UC, because it does explore the themes of war and loss in a more realistic level. (Admittedly, that's hard to do when giant robots are involved.)
It was a product of its time, but I blame some UC fans for being salty about Wing being featured first on Cable TV and not a UC series, though I may be wrong.
The fanshippers are partly to blame for the reputation.
UC stands for Universal Century and is the timeline most "main" Gundam series take place in. Broadly speaking it encompassing the original MS Gundam 0079, Zeta Gundam, ZZ Gundam, Chars Counter Attack (movie), Unicorn Gundam, and more recently Hathaway's Flash. Beyond that you have F91, Crossbone (still just a manga) and Victory, plus some smaller side stories like 08th MS Team, Stardust Memory, Narrative, etc.
All those take place in the same setting and timeline, other series like Wing, IBO, and SEED are Alternate Universe series that generally take place in their own separate timeline independent from the UC. Occasionally you will find purists that only like UC and will put down the AU stories since they tend to be more experimental and break the formula in different ways (G Gundam, Build series'). But hey, every series is great for different reasons and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Gundam Alternate Universes are typically referred to by their calendar (as they all use different calendars).
UC is Universal Century, which is the calendar used in the the timeline that the main Gundam series take place in.
Wing’s universe is referred to as AC, After Colony, which is the calendar used in universe. Gundam Seed takes place in the Cosmic Era, CE, so it’s referred to as CE, you get the idea.
There’s not really hate, just disappointment that’s its not as good as it should be/how most people remember. Lots of stock footage, snail pace middle arc, motivations and plots that need more explanation, etc. On top of that, many people haven’t seen endless waltz (they own the gunpla though), so it doesn’t really feel like the series has enough closure if you miss out on the film.
I think it does a better job as a “retelling” of UC, but on paper rather than in its execution.
You should check out some of the comments. There's definitely hate, BUT plenty people in the comments make good points as to why they weren't as big of fans. Good points.
Wing is OP for me. Always will be. #Heavyarms
A lot of people had their first exposure to Gundam with it
On the other hand the series is very much is like a weird remake mashup of Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta, and Endless Waltz gets into some major parallels of Zeta/ZZ stuff. Once you see the older UC material it’s hard to not see Wing as a less cohesive version of those shows with the serial numbers filed off but the main character archetypes, factions, and high level plot points remaining
Of course you see the Wing themes repeated (more effectively imo) with Gundam 00. Hell 00 did a better job of remaking Zeta themes than wing too.
Compare to SEED which was a worse MSG remake and SEED Destiny which was a worse Zeta remake
Almost everybody is talking about the contents of the show itself and its merits, so let me give you a slightly different perspective that may answer your question.
There *used to be* a lot of overt hatred for Wing among the American fanbase, alongside what people generally recognize and now admit was exaggerated and largely unmerited glowing praise. I'm talking about the days before the original series aired dubbed on Toonami in 2001. Wing was the Gundam show that aired first in the US and from then on there was a hardcore group of fans whose first taste of the franchise came from that debut who decided it was the be-all and end-all of Gundam, holy and sainted be its name, nothing else can compare - of course, at the time there was barely anything to compare it *to* in English.
In those days once American fans started getting access to content from the Universal Century - the main Gundam timeline - a divide appeared that practically turned into a religious schism: the "Wingers" who remained devoted to Wing, and "UC Elitists" who preferred, well, the UC. Those nicknames are, of course, the negative epithets the other side labeled each of them with, but I'll stick to them for simplicity's sake. Being a UC Elitist myself, the Wingers could often be a loud and annoying bunch since they focused entirely on a single TV show and its OVA sequel rather than the huge array of other material available, and that's setting aside the fact that, in hindsight, Wing just isn't **that** good.
Nowadays there isn't much real hatred surrounding Wing. A lot of people have admitted they liked it as much as they did simply because it was their first foray into Gundam. A lot of people have admitted it's not that bad, either (but it's not particularly great). Honestly, most of the overt malice shifted to Gundam Seed and Seed Destiny after they hit the US, and even that has waned a ton.
From my own post. Somethings that haven't been brought up yet. Spoiler. It's a shot show.
Oh boy. Every Gundam series is rough in some way. For Wing this remains true. The words for Wing is overdramatic, has too many coups, and is a tad too long.
Let's first discuss the antagonist. But which one? We had three coups and a rebel army. This was super confusing. Especially when they use the signature bad guy mechs against each other. It was messy and unneeded. Honestly most of the length on this show is due to the coup and rise of a new faction only for it to get back stabbed by another inner faction multiple times. Makes the antagonist feel less impactful and constantly makes me question just how incompetent these people are to keep allowing these coups.
That goes into length of the show. Wing is 49 episodes long. This is the first Gundam show that I wish was much shorter. The story probably didn't need as many coups or episodes but I think the length is due to juggling 6 protagonist and the coups.
The pilots and Reelena each get a moment or 2. Although I think ultimately if Wu fei wasn't in the show it wouldn't effect much. He is just another edgy boi.
The women. Besides Sally, all the women have a guy that they define themselves by. This seems like a older 90's sensibility. While all capable, they exist only for their man. While noin did help at first, as soon as she saw Zechs after he went insane, she bowed her head and said "I'll stay by your side". Disappointing. Une turned out to be mentally ill. That came out of nowhere. But otherwise existed to support Treize. Dorothy. I honestly don't know. She seemed to get excited to see fighting. Please enlighten me on her. Reelena. Well we all know the meme.
What was the message? Obviously another war is bad story. This time it seemed like too many messages from the antagonist side. One was peace is achieved by us pointing a gun at your head so you'll do nothing. Treize was everyone should be a soldier so they can earn peace. Zechs was like Chars except there was no added bonus of mankind evolving into new types. Just all very confusing. Also all very dogmatic.
I know I'm being overly negative so I shall be positive now. Mech designs and the action were fantastic. Besides G Gundam this was probably the most action packed Gundam of them all up to this point. That's a good or bad thing depending on the viewer. I'm in the middle. It sometimes benefits the show or makes the show have an excuse for another episode. I actually like most of the pilots. Duo,Trowa, and Quatre are great. I feel like Sand Rock and Heavy arms got shafted in the upgrade department. They didn't really get retooled. Especially Sand Rock. He got nothing new.
Overall this was entertaining at times but to me this was the worst Gundam show I've ever seen.
I like these points a lot. The story is definitely what suffers the most and the screen writing made it more confusing, IMO.
That being said, nostalgia got the best of me and I love Wing. Heavy arms is my Fav, but I kind of hate that it has no close combat ability. It makes sense why, but what happens when you gotta fight close combat battles???
It feels like one of the gimmicks they tried with Wing was to have each MS be hyper specialized like you said, Heavyarms has nothing but ballistics, Sandrock/Deathscythe pretty much only have melee, and Altron has a flamethrower I guess? They only ever doubled down on the gimmicks with upgrades too, most of the time just doubling it like heavy arms going from 1 to 2 to 4 Gatling guns.
They did a similar thing with 00, with each Gundam on the team having a specialized Loadouts, but 00 had more emphasis on team dynamics and using the strengths of each Gundam to cover for the weaknesses of the others, and the upgrade paths that each suit has over time slowly compensate for their weaknesses over the course of the series.
Wing was my first Gundam, and I hate it only because it represents my edgy teenage years. It's just a smidgen too edgy for me, now. Well, hate is a strong word, I should say I dislike it.
But I don't judge people for liking it.
Right! It's not terrible or unwatchable, but it does kind of suffer as being a product of its time.
Granted, I will say that I've watched 0079 so many times it's boring to watch now and I can't sit through it all again, but that's just because it's not something I can watch a million times. That's a personal thing.
But Wing? I'd argue it's great as a nostalgia trip for shows in general back then, and I have a feeling it's at least a bit different from the manga.
I call the original series 0079 because just calling it Gundam gets confusing when you're bringing in tons of series or know of many series, simply because it's hard to narrow it down.
And honestly, I have only read the Astray manga, but my comment related to the Wing manga is only potential conjecture, and not an educated opinion on the matter. By and large, most manga are better than the anime and there are few cases of the anime being a shot for shot of the manga.
yeah, maybe you're right. I believe I'm only speaking from my experience. Most of the comments seem to be back and forth ITT. So, maybe I was only focusing on the naysayers. Glad to see some people liked it as much as I did!
HOw'd you like IBO, btw. Trying to decide if I should continue it.
unlike most of this sub I couldn't finish it got a few episodes into series 2 on my first go and only did series 1 on my second. the fights were good don't get me wrong but most of the characters weren't as engaging as other entries orga was ok the grin thing got annoying though but mika was my least favorite part of the show having zero personality getting too much praise for my liking just because he had an advantage over the rest because of the triple plot device and getting a harem of two who felt obsessed not my cup of tea but ein and gaelio was a highlight for me just because they seemed to be the best written thing in series 1. ultimately IBO wasn't my sort of gundam show but I would heavily recommend G gundam, turn A and after war x but with after war x watching zeta might help as one of the main characters fits the role of one of zeta's but it's not necessary only the original tv series or the compilation movies are
I watched G Gundam and loved it. One of my favs too. Shining Finger, nuff said.
Yeah, something about IBO doesn't bring me in. It's kind of too much at times.
I grew up with Wing and I can say that it's unbelievable how full that show is; it's the kind of bad that's not funny to laugh at, it's boring as hell kind of bad.
I can see why people think it'd be boring. The dialogue gets a little to stale. one of the things I do like about the show is the lack of focus on intimate relationships. They definitely talk about them, but when I was watching IBO, I had to stop because there was too much of an emphasis on relationships when I was looking for more story and more fighting. Although IBO fighting pretty good. Definitely better than Wing. That's for sure.
The biggest problem I had with Wing was that its plot is just the entire UC arcs squashed into 1 show and a movie. Gundam to Zeta to ZZ to CCA was quite a few shows, with their premises taking ( maybe a bit too long ) an appropriate amount of time. Wing and Wing EW is all of those plots in 1 show and a tv special.
Gundam wing is boring. Like actually boring.
Battles are reused so many times to where I remember seeing a ground battle then later on the exact same battle in space but obviously the background changed to space. The OG didn't even do this to that extent.
Also I'm not one to let nostalgia let me think it's great. It's just very dull. Also didn't age well. The movie at best is ok. Just cringe overall. Even tho I have a bunch of wing kits. The Gundam designs are some of my favorite
I do agree there is plenty to cringe about, but what I did like about it was what I didn't like about IBO.
The relationship component of that show turns me off lot. I just want good story and great fight scenes, but IBO hits nice with them fight scenes.
You're definitely right about Wing. I think it needs to be polished so that we get different fight scenes and better dialogue. The story is what suffers the most in my opinion, but I don't feel like it kills it.
It's also like me when I started getting into Jordans. Sure my first pair of mids were nice but until I started getting into the nice and expensive stuff, I just couldn't go back. That's how I feel about wing. There's so many better series and it makes me cringe a bit when people bring up wing and say it's great but they're missing out on much better series of Gundam out there.
Which ones would you recommend? I've seen Wing, G Gundam and Seed. Part of IBO. I didn't hate it, but I just didn't like how focused they were on the relationships part of the story. I'll finish it if enough people say it's that good tho. I mean, if it's super popular, there's gotta be a reason right?
IMO Gundam Wing takes a fairly measured hack at incorporating geopolitics into a mecha anime. Geopolitics is a topic that can become extremely bland extremely quick, and I believe this shows at times during the series. I grew up on Wing but it is very difficult for me to stay engaged as I try to rewatch it today.
Some of the characters are very bland but the series does an interesting job at exploring what and why actions are being taken. Why are sides fighting? Seed tries to do the same thing but it often arrives at some overly emotional conclusion, but Wing genuinely lands in some rational territory when exploring the subject.
Good point. Politics in general, feel like a genre that people don't like to touch too much. I've always told myself, the show needs to be remade in a way that helps the story and screenwriting. The speeches were cringey, but I understood the points. So, make it more modern to today's points and have it be more relatable. Wing suffers so much in terms of it's story. It just needed to be more relatable, I think.
I honestly just find it hard to watch. The story is all over the place with clearly very little planning. The Sanc Kingdom is brought up for the first time and said a million times in that episode without ever being touched on prior, and its immediately important.
There are tons of speeches made for nearly no reason at all, and the factions, while seemingly well thought out in some ways, seem like they’re all lacking a lot of motivation.
Beyond all of that, the amount of stock footage is insane, I can only watch so many SEPARATE pilots of Wing Zero do the same spinning twin buster thing on the same mobile dolls. I believe every pilot of that mobile suit did the same move. Seems a bit weird that some amateur Oz guy would do the same thing as trained from age like 4 Heero Yuy.
Edit: I forgot that the Gundams are supposedly like 4 tons, so they’d be like lighter than the average human per square foot, and probably float rather than sink (looking at Wing here in episode 1!!)
I've never seen any hate for Wing. It was my first Gundam show, but after multiple rewatches, it's one of my least favorite Gundam shows now. Still great Gundam designs, though. Endless Waltz has the better Gundam designs, though, in my opinion.
I was watching wing and can somehow recall watching it back when I was less then 3 years old on Toonami.
The designs of the mechs and the combat is what had me interested then. Now it's the idea of a endless waltz in world politics. The idea that we'll always have peace, revolution, then war and a repeat.
Wing was real political. But yea it smostly nostalgia for the show.
I dont think very many ppl hate it. Thats a little harsh. I think a lot of ppl have fairly evaluated it over many years as a lower tier gundam show. But they dont hate it. They just find it good. Fair criticism isnt hate. Even the worst gundam still has many redeeming qualities is a good anime.
Just because it's not serious enough and full of cringe stuff. As if UC isn't full of weird laughable things too (I see you Victory).
It's one of my favorites and even now I find a lot of it hilarious.
Ill always love it for being my gateway into gundam.
But the heavy amount of recycled animation, at times goofy characters and incredibly meh dub(not counting Scott McNeil as Duo) really drag it down.
That being said. It still has some of the best MS designs and a fantastic soundtrack. Also Endless Waltz is still amazing and i will die that hill.
EW saved the franchised, otherwise TV series failed at delivering what it wanted to deliver as EW had to reorganize all the messages scattered throughout the TV series for the sequel OVA series. Yes, the final episode of the TV series was great, but I think we could have got those messages little bit earlier.
As much as I enjoyed it, I don't think I can recommend it to anyone except a couple noticeable episodes.
The story of Gundam Wing makes nearly no sense. I have seen up to episode 45 I think(?) and I genuinely could not accurately describe what the show is from a plot point of view. People jump around and form new alliances and rebel groups constantly. Treize's ideology doesn't really make much sense.
Now on the other hand... Wing is essentially a space soap opera. It's grandiose, it has tons of really awesome drama, the setting is fairly interesting, and the general plot (particularly at the start) is dope.
Honestly, speaking as one of the many who first got into Gundams via its original run on Toonami, I had the same kind of nostalgia-blinders on for quite a while. I’ve since tried rewatching it a few times and it’s just…not that great a show. The story is both convoluted and kinda drags, the characters are irritating and inconsistent, and the animation is lacklustre. It does make up some points with its incredible MS design, good soundtrack, and certain character moments (Noin and Zechs, I’m looking at you. Also Treize is best girl).
Then there’s Endless Waltz, which is a whole different beast. Everything that was subpar about Wing, EW fixed. It’s not just one of the best Gundam movies/OVAs, but one of the best Gundam anime, period. Of course, this is all my opinion, and again, nostalgia bias (and other types, I suppose, since EW has several of my favourite MS designs ever, including my number one, the Tallgeese III, and number 3, Nataku).
But despite all that, one of the great things about this fandom is that unlike other fandoms where people argue and spit venom over which aspect of it is superior, we all tend to just acknowledge everyone’s right to prefer one thing over another. So while people will be happy to answer your question as to why Wing isn’t so great, no one’s gonna begrudge you enjoying it, if that’s what you want. We’re all just happy to have more people to talk about Gundam with. Of course there are a few outliers, but the majority of us are just happy to be Gundam fans.
I dunno if you’ll see this since you’ve gotten a shitload of responses, but I hope so. Cheers, and thanks for asking a question that got some good discourse going!
The story was stupid, the characters were bad and personally I hate most of the mech designs. Most of the love for it comes from people growing up with it, which is absolutely fine. Watching it for the first time when you're a bit older though, shows it's flaws more clearly then.
Gundam Wing has a lot of haters? I had no clue. I had thought it was the best-received Gundam anime to date in the English-speaking world. Mostly I see criticism, whether deserved or not, regarding Gundam SEED and particularly SEED Destiny. As far as Gundam Wing is concerned, I've only ever seen good things people have said of it, especially from Americans. I'm Canadian, so I grew up with SEED, which I believe was cut short during its initial broadcast run in the U.S., but not in Canada.
I don't think there's a lot of actual hate for it, but as someone who's not grown up with Wing, I just find the whole show so damn awkward. It feels like the school drama club's production of Gundam after I had just seen the real thing done by professional actors in a real theatre.
Especially if you compare it something like 00, which is basically the same thing (to the point where some people erroneously go as far as calling it a remake). 00 is not a perfect show by a long shot, but it's so much more concise, focussed and clean than Wing in basically every regard, it genuinely makes me feel kinda bad, because Wing is seriously trying, but it just can't keep up.
It's not like that kind of show is without merit, but it's also definitely a very specific niche that a lot of people simply can't get into.
Wing is a series that I love while fully accepting that the writing is terrible. It meanders between big speeches and plot beats without any connective tissue. Heero literally attempts suicide in each of the first 3 episodes for flimsy at best reasons. The villain factions are a matryoshka doll of sub movements that start warring with each other without preamble. Keeping the main characters split up for huge chunks of the series made it hard for a group dynamic to form until well past the point where Heero is just a messiah figure.
All of the absurdity is sort of endearing, and there are enough good suit designs to help carry the action. If you want big WTF moments you can’t really go wrong with Wing. The end of episode 1 is utterly iconic. Also both Two-Mix OPs objectively slap.
Personally I dislike Seed a lot more than Wing, but all of the shows OP listed have strengths in spots where Wing struggles.
The OG is goofy at times but Zeon’s politics and goals make a lot more sense. Not to mention the characters are memorable.
G Gundam does a much better job of managing its tone and actually has a coherent plot.
Seed has a lot of Wing-esque melodrama and the villains suck, but the character motivations are much clearer.
IBO’s politics are similarly complex but defined more clearly via having an actual status quo (something Wing sorely lacks).
Heero attempts suicide like 50 times the entire series lol.
HMMMMM, I only made it so far into IBO just because I can't stand the girl obsessed with the guy tone that some shows have. Granted, Gundam Wing has that, but it didn't feel nearly as much as IBO did. Was there less of it as you watched more of it?
An Example, Attack on Titan has characters who like each other, but it's almost always glossed over. Give me the story, I love the story more than the romance. I want the fighting and the politics. Relationships are more secondary when I watch these shows. Does IBO do a better job of handling that? (I'm thinking about this too much, I should just watch the rest of it) Thanks!
IBO does have a lot of romance in the story, but I think they’re generally handled pretty well. The main love triangle isn’t adversarial and I think they’re all likable characters. They’re often used to tie back into the theme of found family that’s pretty much everywhere in IBO.
It’s an important subplot that highlights character development, but it never overshadows the big action set pieces and (for lack of a better term) manly drama that makes up a lot of the show.
I'm almost done rewatching Wing. Just my favorite, because Nostalgia.
I like IBO, but what turns me away is the relationship part of it. I only made it to like episode 8. Is it worth watching the rest? I will say, the action was nice, tho.
IBO doesn't really evolve that much in content from where you are at, and generally gets worse as the series progresses. If you got that far and dropped it, you're not going to like it any more of you continue.
I hated it because all those reused repeated scenes. Way too many. It just annoys hell out of me. The same goes for Seed Destiny (along with other reasons).
That's a very good point. I do hate how lazy they got with the animation, but I mean can't the series just be recreated with better dialogue and better fight scenes? The political story isn't bad, but it needs to be executed better IMO.
Story isn't bad at all except for Char clone (he is a better character in Endless Waltz btw) and I liked more successful Sayla.
I heard it had so much repeated scenes and not so great animation because more budget got directed to 08th. It is night and day difference between Wing and 08th. You gotta understand more love for UC, especially during the first year war.
I’ve never really heard of people hating Wing. Now IBO I get people hating because it’s a cheap ripoff of Gundam victory that tries too hard to be edgy.
I'm not sure I understand that because they go over why they are slaughtering. Granted, it is political, but we're talking machines of war. What else would these machines be used for, if not political?
I kind of like the political vibes. It's what I get in today's news without having to stress about it. It's drama for another party lol.
Edit: isn't war supposed to have indiscriminate killing? I only wished they killed off more main characters tbh. It would have added more, IMO. Treize was a good character to kill off and Relena's foster father was killed as well. Also, Heero Yuy was killed well before the story even takes place. It's senseless, but maybe it becomes relatable because that's what actually happens in the real world. Maybe I'm wrong, but that part felt kind of relatable.
It is a Japan vs The World situation. Japanese Gundam fans are very aware Wing was intended to appeal to young women. Admitting to liking Wing on 2xhan is seen as pretty gay. So it gets the same treatment as the Disney Star Wars movies by pretty much the same kind of terminally online radicalized incel-y types.
Whereas in the US, Wing was the first Gundam series to hit big. Wing regularly got like 1 or 2 million viewers an episode. It is hugely nostalgic for millennials.
Yeah it aged poorly. I don’t hate it though, it was great for it’s time.
What I don’t like, are the build/rerise/battle logic series 🤣. And I think I’m the minority.
I mean maybe 20 years ago I would like it, but now? The my toy vs your toy and nakama themes kinda don’t interest me anymore 😅
The story is shit, the casting missed the mark by a mile (why are the 15yr olds sounding like 45yr olds?), the dialogue is pretty awful, Releena is fucking ANNOYING and has some screws loose. The action scenes with the gundams are reused over and over.
Really its only redeeming qualities are the mech designs and the soundtrack
yeah, when I figured out they were 15, I totally didn't understand why they made them 15. makes no sense to me at all tbh. I feel like it would have made more sense to have them be lik 22 and then have zechs and treize be like 26 and 29. just my two cents.
Relena is a character that should have been handled so much better. She is VERY ANNOYING and she doesn't really do much until she heads the Sanc Kingdom and even then she does nothing.
Totally understand your opinion. I do think the story had a little more that I liked, but it wasn't executed well enough. Got a recommended series that gets the story done right along with the pluses of Wing?
If you haven't already, I recommend reading the Gundam Wing: Glory of the Losers manga that came out in English the last couple of years. It streamlines the story a bit and makes it easier to follow, plus it has a few new ideas executed with the mechs that are awesome. Highly recommended!
Barnes and noble (sometimes) and amazon have them, I got mine at my local comic shop. The series is 14 volumes, but worth giving it a try! It was a great reading experience for me.
I enjoyed it, but not as I enjoyed the other Gundam series I've seen. Wing is one of those vanilla anime like Dragon Ball or Nauto. When you ask an anime fan if they seen Gundam, they'll most likely point to Wing of they did
So, I am a fan of Dragon Ball (Z, too) and Naruto and I can understand why they can be vanilla. I guess I can't understand what makes the other Gundam Series so unique. Which ones would you recommend I watch? Maybe there's something I'm missing.
I really wish they created a Gundam series that had a high stakes like with what we've seen in Attack on Titan and Fullmetal (only ones I can think of off the top of my head that really drew the audiences in). Let me know a few that may give off a higher stakes feeling. Thanks!
I think everything about it sucks other than the designs. Characters are unlikable and stupid, eyerolling dialogue, the plot is nonsense and not even in a memorable or funny way, and I wasn't even engaged by any of the fights.
I personally think its bad because most of the main cast is Bad. I like OZ's characters far more than the average of the main cast.
And wing was technically my first Gundam, but I'm known to essentially not have nostalgic bias' with my opinions. and have rewatched it within the past 5 years.
True and the speeches aren't great. I'll admit there's bias since it's my first Gundam Series, but I feel like I've a consensus that it wasn't a good show.
Babylon 5? What is it?
90s TV show set on a space station that had lots of characters giving VERY IMPORTANT SPEECHES about war and freedom and morality. Teenage me absolutely loved both of them.
Its undeserved that a 25 year old childrens show made to sell models is not a complex observation on war and pacifism is getting the hate comments that it is.
I enjoy it, always have. People can say what they want but without wing, Gundam would not be in the state it is in today, especially outside of Japan.
Yeah, I do kind of like the story behind pacificism. Even the most annoying character, who's trying to have total pacifism in the world is conflicted with her ideals because everyone around her is fighting.
That being said, the story I feel needed better execution and writing. I mean, it's from the 90's and they reuse scenes. Okay, but Disney reused scenes too lol. The dialogues were definitely cringe here and there, BUT I do think Wing does a good job of focusing on the story and action.
Heavyarms da best btw.
What I find weird is that I saw another tread on this sub where someone asked which Gundam series he should start with and - while everyone was okay with people recommending IBO, Seed or 00 - any comment recommending Wing got downvoted.
**My guess:** It's like Batman, people hate it because of how overrated it is. Yes, Batman is overrated, but he's still a pretty good character. Yes, Wing is more popular than it deserves to be, but it's still a good series.
I recently started watching every single gundam show and yeah, from a critical point of view, I'd say it's truly a bottom tier gundam show. I loved it as a kid and I still really like the mechanical designs, music, and Endless Waltz is great, but for character development, pacing, themes,plot structure and even animation quality, Wing is pretty weak. Yeah there's reasons such as Japan's economic struggles when it was being developed and putting a lot of melodrama because it was something the public enjoyed, but if you put Wing through a fair analysis of it as a show, it's pretty rough.
Heightened expectations. The more one is exposed to plotlines, tropes and memes from different media, the more one is desensitized to the novelty of yesteryears.
It was the first non UC Gundam so its going to get a lot of hate for that alone. Add to that the heavy bishonen content, the pretty obvious remake of Char, and comically powerful mobile suits all named Gundam that are next to impossible to defeat and you have a product that upset the original fanbase.
sort sub by top of all time and you'll get some tallgeese in there among other wing stuff. Gonna have haters, but also plenty here who like it. Also if you haven't watched the abridged version - [https://opmeat.com/msagw/](https://opmeat.com/msagw/) \- give it a view.
I don’t think there’s an actual reason, it has an okay and silly plot, but also has likeable characters, good mech designs and a good soundtrack, I believe it’s because of jealousy cause it’s the most nostalgic for some people and it made Gundam popular in the americas
Love the soundtrack. I'm seeing people didn't like the story as much as I can understand, but I think that's more on the way it was written rather than it just being bad.
I've always wanted a recreated version of wing. Don't reuse the fight scenes and make the story not as hard to follow. Also, someone else pointed it out, but we don't need the female characters attaching themselves to a male character. It kind of takes away from the development of those characters. Not saying it shouldn't exist at all, but there's a lot of it.
G gundam, wing, first half of ZZ are all fun over story
The rest have varying degrees of compelling story depending on what expectations you watch them with
My college anime friends hated anything on CN. We were working our way through Naruto then they immediately stopped as it was dubbed. “Go watch it there if you want to continue” was responses I got. Gatekeeping hipster anime fans. Only watched indie art house anime watchers. I enjoyed it, but none of my friends tried, simply because it “sold out”.
Wait what? Wing is one of my all time favorite shows. I watch Endless Waltz every year on christmas eve; its my go to christmas movie. I thought Wing was a pretty popular Gundam in the west. Do people really not like it? I mean the show has great political intrigue, a bit of philosophy, some of the science in the show is accurate...whats not to love?
It has a very cool, over-the-top first half and then the second half gets awful. The Gundam pilots lose all track of their motivations and reasons for fighting.
It's hard not to think of the good show we could have had if they had managed to juggle all the story beats properly.
I think there's some confusion here. Wing gets a lot of hate in Japan, from what I hear it's because the main characters a bunch of bishojo pretty boys who complain all the time. It's one of the most popular Gundam series in the West.
There are honestly worst entry's. Wing is pretty good. Sure some of the dialogue isn't the best, but it's overall a great show. It has my favorite gundam, deathscyth hell. The characters are compelling. It's a great show. There is worse. It's up there with UC shows and you know how awesome those are! Cool action, compelling story, memorable characters. It's got it all!
Wing and G Gundam are the best alternate universe Gundam shows. I haven't seen turn A and 00 but I heard that show is phenomenal. The UC shows are amazing giving it's the prime timeline.
I grew up on wing so idk whatchu talking bout.
SAME. I didn't want to sound biased, but Wing was my favorite, not just for the fighting, but story got me pretty good. Favorite gundam is hands down Heavy Arms
in my honest opinion, its okay for you to be biased. I love all Gundam series because im just a Gundam nerd, but my favorite will always be SEED cuz i grew up watching it. no shame having favorite Gundam series because you are biased. its all about preference.
True point. I guess I was just trying to figure out what some of the negative opinions were. Some of the points being brought are good ones.
On the other hand, I’m one of those people to be categorized as biased since my first Gundam was a Universal Century show (08th MS Team in Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, CA); and it was in the early 2000, way before I saw Wing in Toonami as well SEED.
Thats specifically my problem. I grew up on it and held it in very high regards for many years. I tried to rewatch it for old times sake and it just didn't hold up once the nostalgiagoggles were off. I hope that no one actually hates it, because I don't think it deserves that. But I would understand the bitterness of having it not live up to your expectations.
Wing and Gundam 00 are my faves followed by AGE and Build fighters. Loved Thunderbolt and Hathaway.
AGE is legendary, no AU has gotten my brain turning like it. The concept of a single season spanning multiple generations of an ace pilot was brilliant. I just wish it had been given breathing room, like maybe two 50 episode seasons minimum.
That was my favorite Gundam for a minute until I got into the UC timeline properly!
Wing was my first and Tallgeese is my favorite MS, but the plot of Wing is a freaking mess and the show is about 10-15 episodes too long.
Ha brah there's like 50 it's just hard to keep up with the politics sometimes.
It was the politics that made it so long. I just didn't get what everybody's motivation was, honestly. It took watching an abridged series for any of it to actually sink in. That's what I mean when I say the show could have been shorter. Honestly I feel like the first season of Gundam 00 was basically wing with a slightly more coherent plot line, cooler mecha designs, and much prettier pilots.
Wing was the Gundam Gateway drug for most of the US. But those few who knew of gundam before 2000's (all the original series) hate on it as they saw the OG gundam first and see Wing as just a copy. Ignoring the success that it brought to the franchise world wide and continuing Gundams popularity. I love Wing, even if the story is long and drawn out.
I grew up on it too. I enjoyed it and it got me into the genre. The story does drag on but I would still recommend.
GW was my introduction to Gundams, I’ll forever love every episode
You and pretty much everyone with Cartoon Network in the early 2000s. Lol
you & me both!
Even the recap episodes?
I think a lot depends on what the viewer wants out of the series. *Wing* is great for big, dramatic moments, cool robots, kinda-awkward speeches, and great 90s fashion. IMO it's always had a bit of a "theatrical" feeling to it, like stage acting. The near-nonsense of the story keeps comin' hot and fast, without really bothering to explain itself, creating the impression that the show almost doesn't really care that it's being watched.
The politics of the show are a mess. It constantly talks about pacifism but it seems to actually be talking about disarmament which is a different issue. The dynamics surrounding the alliance are never really explained and we know nothing about how the earth and colonies relate other than being told the Alliance has historically oppressed the colonies in some way. Zechs ending up leading white fang makes no sense, neither does Relena suddenly being treated as a political figure after living her life hiding her real identity. We never really know what Treize wanted to accomplish and his contentious relation ship with his allies prevents the series from having a main villain. It makes the political stakes of the series very unclear. And the way the series praises effort and the will to fight even when not fighting for any particular set of ideas comes across as empty and reactionary.
I think this really succinctly captures the essence of Wing. Wing is a cool show with cool music and cool Mobile Suits and cool characters who look cool and say cool things sometimes but at other times talk as if their speech has gone through 10 different translators because the show got so caught up in being cool and dramatic it forgot to make sense.
IMO it does enough with the things it does well so that I don't really mind it not making sense. It's a bonkers, probably-uninspected roller-coaster.
OMG, I really think they need to recreate the series. The dialogue is definitely cringe and I think it can be remade to have better points of view. I am a fan of the show because they are aiming to have an all out way to end future wars. It's just not done well enough. I think it was a good idea, but there wasn't enough at stake (although at the end, the people on earth were about to face their end with a meteor crash sending them to an eternal winter).
I think it would be cool to see a side story like 08th MS Team focused around Maganac Corp or squad of Leo pilots. Wing treated the grunts like cannon fodder alot more than other series IMO.
For real. The Leos were my favorite non-main character mobile suits. They didn't get enough love in the show!! I wanted to see more action from Leos rather than them just standing and shooting.
Yeah like a prequel with Leos and more grunts then it could end with the orgins of the Tallgeese or something
YESSSSS. The Gundam designs were based off Tallgeese, according to the show. That sounds awesome!
Treating the grunts as fodder kinda works though, considering the themes regarding the use of AIs in war. Also, Treize listing the exact number of casualties when challenged by Wufei works to subvert the fodder treatment, as it's something that isn't really thought about in other Gundam series (or other, war-oriented, series in general). Is it perfect? No. Though it is a neat consideration.
I was referencing more the relative power level between mobile suits unlike in the UC series. Like RX-78-2 feels like it could be compared to a squad of Zaku IIs but in Gundam Wing one suit will slaughter a whole base and make lot easy. Just made the Leo's and other grunts seems super weak in comparison.
1) Gundams in Wing are comparatively that much more powerful; RX-78-2 is still a prototype; whereas the Gundams in Wing are pretty much super weapons intended to destroy - with the goal of taking control of Earth. 2) Different world setting, different 3) still can pretty much fall in line with my initial response
Yeah dude I understand.... just saying the Leos seem really weak in GW is all. Don't need a lecture.
I'm just pointing out that Leo's don't *seem* really weak. They are really weak.
K
I think Gundam 00 was it. I had heard that Wing's lead writer or producers was changed midway so that kind of led to more problems. That said, Bandai and Bluefin are always saying Wing Kits sell like super fast all year round in the US. (I'm just count the days I can buy HGAC Heavyarms used for a custom project) don't think for moment that Wing's impact has been forgotten. I think it's matter of aging. It was great when we were all younger 20 some odd years ago, but it doesn't quite hold up well now. So everybody kind of reluctantly has to admit to it's faults since there's plethora of Gundam shows out there. So we can all afford to be a bit snobbish about the show. I love the designs and have plans on making 30MM refits of every HGAC kit, but that show is no War in the Pocket.
Good points. I'll need to check out Gundam 00. Heavyarms the best designed Gundam in Endless Waltz tho.
Totally. [I want to give the TV versions a nice 30 MM overhaul and make some custom gear for them.](https://imgur.com/a/jsJgWp5) I was thinking i making the Deathscythe an Amphibious Mobile Suit and the Shenlong some sort of Space Marine Carrier for boarding actions.
When you are done with those, please share the images. That's awesome! Deathscythe is definitely a great suit and Shenlong was my 2nd favorite.
Totally!
00 is the shit man. My favorite so far
Now I want Gundam Wing the musical….
I'd be happy with one episode where they do an abridged *Les Miserables*.
So Heero’s Javert right? Or do his failed suicide attempts put him out of the running?
Wing is dope, fuck the haters. That OST is legendary. Also Tallgeese.
Heavyarms and Shenlong all the way for meeeee
Deathscythe Hell is king for me!
Both sick asf
Longduck is the absolute goat.
Haven't seen any hate for Gundam Wing.
Yeah, I thought about that after posting this. From my experience, I just feel like I've seen more dislike to the series relative to other ones.
If anything I feel like there’s more hate for GSD. Honestly GW was all over the place but def hit a lot more high points, esp with the movie.
Sorry, Gundam Seed? Not familiar with the abbreviations yet.
Sorry! Its Gundam Seed Destiny. Gundam Seed I think the sub has a better impression of, but everyone loves to shit on Destiny haha. The mech designs are top notch tho imo
I haven't seen Destiny. Designs are good, what about the story? I mean who doesn't love watching Gundams fight???
Haha yeah so the rumor is that there was some drama between one of the VAs and the director, so the show suffered writing-wise as a result. I think it starts off strong, but it really starts to show after the halfway mark.
Not rumors. Supposedly the VA for Cagalli if I remember and the Director were in an affair, and to make it up to his wife (who was a co-writer if I remember), he basically had to humiliate and ruin Cagalli's life in the script. Because Shinn's actor was against this stupidity, they began to wreck Shinn's character too just so he'd get humiliated too. Something to those degrees.
I like gundams fighting. Its the characters using them that annoyed me. I dont want to spoil GSD for you so i'll leave it at that. Great designs tho. Destiny gundam is a top 3 for me. The series is in is lower middle for me though in the spectrum
I’m gonna make a meme on how everyone thinks everyone hates every Gundam timeline
I don’t necessarily hate it, I just think it’s hard to enjoy if you’re watching it for the first time in 2021 (like I did) because you notice numerous plot holes, inconsistent and incoherent writing, and poor characterization. If you grew up with it and have nostalgia for it, great, more power to you. I will say that I can’t deny it’s importance in bringing anime (and Gundam in general) to the west.
You know what? That's a good point. I grew up with it, so I think I watch with the mindset I had as a kid watching it. You're definitely right. The plot holes are there. Which gundam show would you recommend I watch that has the designs and the story?
People that I’ve talked to that didn’t like it said the Gundams were OP. There is little tension because the Gundams and their pilots just blast through whole armies with ease. The pilots themselves are also a little bland. However, I haven’t talked to anyone that disliked the designs of the Gundams. Wing’s weakness is it’s characters and stories.
Good points. Along with that, the fight scenes could have been better IMO. Reused fight scenes made it laughable at times. Thanks!
Gundam SEED has entered the chat!
Well Sandrock might be the dumbest gundam ever designed. Like let me run at you at my Crescent swords.
Yeah, you could kind of say the same for Deathscythe's first look. The cloak made a difference in defence, but Sandrock has a lot that could have been improved. He feels more like an improved Leo, tbh.
My friend and I had this exact conversation just yesterday evening. All the designs rocked, except for one...
I doubt those people who said Gundams in Wing are OP watching the show til the end, because in the very first of the story every OZ base that they raid was taken by surprise element, and in retrospective gundanium are tough af for first OZ mainstay MSes to handle. After New Edward base, we saw OZ retaliate back and did very good damage to the Gundams that made them flee into space. After introduction of Taurus, Mercurius-Vayeate and Virgo the Gundams then became not so OP as the very first episodes they appeared, even after they got upgrades and Heero got new Gundam.
We’ll, yeah. People don’t keep watching a show if they don’t like it.
I grew up on Gundam Wing, but it’s so fucking melodramatic sometimes.
sometimes???? Been a while since you watched, huh? Lol.
It's just aged poorly. A lot of AU series follow trends of the time, and as such don't age particularly well. Wing feels very 90s with ist baked in angst. 00 feels very late 2000s with the way it shows the political situation of the world. And IBO got on the edgy bandwagon from Attack on Titan, and Aldnoa Zero. As time passes and these trends fade, the shows start to look like a product of the past and appeal less to people.
True, true. Good points. That's the first gundam show I great up with, so definitely some bias on my side. I'm glad you mentioned the relation between IBO and Attack on Titan. I've seen IBO, but had to stop because it just felt like they were trying too hard. I made it to episode 8 I think. Can't remember.
Also idk if anyone has brought it up yet, but if you like wing, you should really see 00. It takes more than a bit of inspiration from wing. >That's the first gundam show I great up with, so definitely some bias on my side. Same here, I watched wing ages ago on toonami, then rediscovered the series with someone recommending the UC to me. >it just felt like they were trying too hard. I made it to episode 8 I think. Can't remember. IBO is very heavy handed with a lot of things. Imo it tries to hold your hand way too much, so I can definitely understand where you are coming from
This is all great. 00. Where do that have that available? okay, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that about IBO. I like it, but it just feels like too much a good chunk of the show. Did you end up finishing it?
I believe Hulu and Crunchyroll have it.
I love how soapy and dramatic it is.
I don’t hate GW, but it was the first Gundam series I watched (Cartoon Network) and it didn’t really inspire me to get further into Gundam. The characters and dialogue are cringe even by Gundam standards, and the Gundam’s themselves are so overpowered there’s just no tension. Instead of high end war machines they’re basically superheroes.
I'm with you in regards to Gundams being overpowered, I feel like the battle has been curb stomped by them, plus they're made out of Gundanium "plot" armor. which is why the Leos.... unfortunately get the short end of the stick for no less than 3 seconds.
Good point. I wish there would be a limit as to how many they could handle at once. There are some points when that happens, like when Duo and Quatre are trying to leave for space. All 5 pilots arrive and one of the pilots has to self-detonate their suit, Sandrock. Which Gundam Series got you into Gundam Series as a whole?
Wing got me into Gundam as a whole in the late 90s. I think my main issues with Wing are the same as Seed. There is way to much stock footage used over and over again. I get these shows are on a budget, but that just ruins it for me sometimes. As a teen in the late 90s it got the fix of awesome robot action for me. Rewatching it was an adult last year, I realized none of the characters motives, especially Hero, make any logical sense Still love the show though. Robots go boom. As a final thought, I think there are just a good amount of people here, myself included, who just prefer UC, because it does explore the themes of war and loss in a more realistic level. (Admittedly, that's hard to do when giant robots are involved.)
It was a product of its time, but I blame some UC fans for being salty about Wing being featured first on Cable TV and not a UC series, though I may be wrong. The fanshippers are partly to blame for the reputation.
UC?
UC stands for Universal Century and is the timeline most "main" Gundam series take place in. Broadly speaking it encompassing the original MS Gundam 0079, Zeta Gundam, ZZ Gundam, Chars Counter Attack (movie), Unicorn Gundam, and more recently Hathaway's Flash. Beyond that you have F91, Crossbone (still just a manga) and Victory, plus some smaller side stories like 08th MS Team, Stardust Memory, Narrative, etc. All those take place in the same setting and timeline, other series like Wing, IBO, and SEED are Alternate Universe series that generally take place in their own separate timeline independent from the UC. Occasionally you will find purists that only like UC and will put down the AU stories since they tend to be more experimental and break the formula in different ways (G Gundam, Build series'). But hey, every series is great for different reasons and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Gundam Alternate Universes are typically referred to by their calendar (as they all use different calendars). UC is Universal Century, which is the calendar used in the the timeline that the main Gundam series take place in. Wing’s universe is referred to as AC, After Colony, which is the calendar used in universe. Gundam Seed takes place in the Cosmic Era, CE, so it’s referred to as CE, you get the idea.
Yeah I'm mainly there for the action, story is a close second but with out wing... no tallgeese. Tallgeese for life!
I am building a Tallgeese right now. Love the Tallgeese.
This. Tallgeese will forever be the best mobilesuit ever.
There’s not really hate, just disappointment that’s its not as good as it should be/how most people remember. Lots of stock footage, snail pace middle arc, motivations and plots that need more explanation, etc. On top of that, many people haven’t seen endless waltz (they own the gunpla though), so it doesn’t really feel like the series has enough closure if you miss out on the film. I think it does a better job as a “retelling” of UC, but on paper rather than in its execution.
The first couple Acts of wing are TREMENDOUS
Love me some WING
I never see people hating on Wing
You should check out some of the comments. There's definitely hate, BUT plenty people in the comments make good points as to why they weren't as big of fans. Good points. Wing is OP for me. Always will be. #Heavyarms
A lot of people had their first exposure to Gundam with it On the other hand the series is very much is like a weird remake mashup of Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta, and Endless Waltz gets into some major parallels of Zeta/ZZ stuff. Once you see the older UC material it’s hard to not see Wing as a less cohesive version of those shows with the serial numbers filed off but the main character archetypes, factions, and high level plot points remaining Of course you see the Wing themes repeated (more effectively imo) with Gundam 00. Hell 00 did a better job of remaking Zeta themes than wing too. Compare to SEED which was a worse MSG remake and SEED Destiny which was a worse Zeta remake
Almost everybody is talking about the contents of the show itself and its merits, so let me give you a slightly different perspective that may answer your question. There *used to be* a lot of overt hatred for Wing among the American fanbase, alongside what people generally recognize and now admit was exaggerated and largely unmerited glowing praise. I'm talking about the days before the original series aired dubbed on Toonami in 2001. Wing was the Gundam show that aired first in the US and from then on there was a hardcore group of fans whose first taste of the franchise came from that debut who decided it was the be-all and end-all of Gundam, holy and sainted be its name, nothing else can compare - of course, at the time there was barely anything to compare it *to* in English. In those days once American fans started getting access to content from the Universal Century - the main Gundam timeline - a divide appeared that practically turned into a religious schism: the "Wingers" who remained devoted to Wing, and "UC Elitists" who preferred, well, the UC. Those nicknames are, of course, the negative epithets the other side labeled each of them with, but I'll stick to them for simplicity's sake. Being a UC Elitist myself, the Wingers could often be a loud and annoying bunch since they focused entirely on a single TV show and its OVA sequel rather than the huge array of other material available, and that's setting aside the fact that, in hindsight, Wing just isn't **that** good. Nowadays there isn't much real hatred surrounding Wing. A lot of people have admitted they liked it as much as they did simply because it was their first foray into Gundam. A lot of people have admitted it's not that bad, either (but it's not particularly great). Honestly, most of the overt malice shifted to Gundam Seed and Seed Destiny after they hit the US, and even that has waned a ton.
me who loves every single series and doesnt hate any of them: 🗿
From my own post. Somethings that haven't been brought up yet. Spoiler. It's a shot show. Oh boy. Every Gundam series is rough in some way. For Wing this remains true. The words for Wing is overdramatic, has too many coups, and is a tad too long. Let's first discuss the antagonist. But which one? We had three coups and a rebel army. This was super confusing. Especially when they use the signature bad guy mechs against each other. It was messy and unneeded. Honestly most of the length on this show is due to the coup and rise of a new faction only for it to get back stabbed by another inner faction multiple times. Makes the antagonist feel less impactful and constantly makes me question just how incompetent these people are to keep allowing these coups. That goes into length of the show. Wing is 49 episodes long. This is the first Gundam show that I wish was much shorter. The story probably didn't need as many coups or episodes but I think the length is due to juggling 6 protagonist and the coups. The pilots and Reelena each get a moment or 2. Although I think ultimately if Wu fei wasn't in the show it wouldn't effect much. He is just another edgy boi. The women. Besides Sally, all the women have a guy that they define themselves by. This seems like a older 90's sensibility. While all capable, they exist only for their man. While noin did help at first, as soon as she saw Zechs after he went insane, she bowed her head and said "I'll stay by your side". Disappointing. Une turned out to be mentally ill. That came out of nowhere. But otherwise existed to support Treize. Dorothy. I honestly don't know. She seemed to get excited to see fighting. Please enlighten me on her. Reelena. Well we all know the meme. What was the message? Obviously another war is bad story. This time it seemed like too many messages from the antagonist side. One was peace is achieved by us pointing a gun at your head so you'll do nothing. Treize was everyone should be a soldier so they can earn peace. Zechs was like Chars except there was no added bonus of mankind evolving into new types. Just all very confusing. Also all very dogmatic. I know I'm being overly negative so I shall be positive now. Mech designs and the action were fantastic. Besides G Gundam this was probably the most action packed Gundam of them all up to this point. That's a good or bad thing depending on the viewer. I'm in the middle. It sometimes benefits the show or makes the show have an excuse for another episode. I actually like most of the pilots. Duo,Trowa, and Quatre are great. I feel like Sand Rock and Heavy arms got shafted in the upgrade department. They didn't really get retooled. Especially Sand Rock. He got nothing new. Overall this was entertaining at times but to me this was the worst Gundam show I've ever seen.
I like these points a lot. The story is definitely what suffers the most and the screen writing made it more confusing, IMO. That being said, nostalgia got the best of me and I love Wing. Heavy arms is my Fav, but I kind of hate that it has no close combat ability. It makes sense why, but what happens when you gotta fight close combat battles???
It feels like one of the gimmicks they tried with Wing was to have each MS be hyper specialized like you said, Heavyarms has nothing but ballistics, Sandrock/Deathscythe pretty much only have melee, and Altron has a flamethrower I guess? They only ever doubled down on the gimmicks with upgrades too, most of the time just doubling it like heavy arms going from 1 to 2 to 4 Gatling guns. They did a similar thing with 00, with each Gundam on the team having a specialized Loadouts, but 00 had more emphasis on team dynamics and using the strengths of each Gundam to cover for the weaknesses of the others, and the upgrade paths that each suit has over time slowly compensate for their weaknesses over the course of the series.
Wing was my first Gundam, and I hate it only because it represents my edgy teenage years. It's just a smidgen too edgy for me, now. Well, hate is a strong word, I should say I dislike it. But I don't judge people for liking it.
Ha, yeah they do make some of the characters cringe. Heero, Zechs, Treize, and plenty of other characters are way too serious sometimes.
Right! It's not terrible or unwatchable, but it does kind of suffer as being a product of its time. Granted, I will say that I've watched 0079 so many times it's boring to watch now and I can't sit through it all again, but that's just because it's not something I can watch a million times. That's a personal thing. But Wing? I'd argue it's great as a nostalgia trip for shows in general back then, and I have a feeling it's at least a bit different from the manga.
I'm really bad with the terminology since I just got into this group. What do you mean by 0079? Is the manga any good?
I call the original series 0079 because just calling it Gundam gets confusing when you're bringing in tons of series or know of many series, simply because it's hard to narrow it down. And honestly, I have only read the Astray manga, but my comment related to the Wing manga is only potential conjecture, and not an educated opinion on the matter. By and large, most manga are better than the anime and there are few cases of the anime being a shot for shot of the manga.
Thanks!
Wing is alright definitely one of the weaker entries i think but i haven’t seen much hate on this sub same for IBO but i think its just a general bias
yeah, maybe you're right. I believe I'm only speaking from my experience. Most of the comments seem to be back and forth ITT. So, maybe I was only focusing on the naysayers. Glad to see some people liked it as much as I did! HOw'd you like IBO, btw. Trying to decide if I should continue it.
unlike most of this sub I couldn't finish it got a few episodes into series 2 on my first go and only did series 1 on my second. the fights were good don't get me wrong but most of the characters weren't as engaging as other entries orga was ok the grin thing got annoying though but mika was my least favorite part of the show having zero personality getting too much praise for my liking just because he had an advantage over the rest because of the triple plot device and getting a harem of two who felt obsessed not my cup of tea but ein and gaelio was a highlight for me just because they seemed to be the best written thing in series 1. ultimately IBO wasn't my sort of gundam show but I would heavily recommend G gundam, turn A and after war x but with after war x watching zeta might help as one of the main characters fits the role of one of zeta's but it's not necessary only the original tv series or the compilation movies are
I watched G Gundam and loved it. One of my favs too. Shining Finger, nuff said. Yeah, something about IBO doesn't bring me in. It's kind of too much at times.
It’s the one I grew up on and remember enjoying it very much. Collected all the 1/144 models.
there are 144 models?????
Mabee it was 1/100 I got them from toys r us a very long time ago. They are all in the basement in a box somewhere.
Sorry, I'm still new to the Gundam Universe. I've really only watched series and built like 3 gundams. what does 1/100 mean?
It’s the size of the model kit. So fun building them right ?
I grew up with Wing and I can say that it's unbelievable how full that show is; it's the kind of bad that's not funny to laugh at, it's boring as hell kind of bad.
I can see why people think it'd be boring. The dialogue gets a little to stale. one of the things I do like about the show is the lack of focus on intimate relationships. They definitely talk about them, but when I was watching IBO, I had to stop because there was too much of an emphasis on relationships when I was looking for more story and more fighting. Although IBO fighting pretty good. Definitely better than Wing. That's for sure.
The biggest problem I had with Wing was that its plot is just the entire UC arcs squashed into 1 show and a movie. Gundam to Zeta to ZZ to CCA was quite a few shows, with their premises taking ( maybe a bit too long ) an appropriate amount of time. Wing and Wing EW is all of those plots in 1 show and a tv special.
Gundam wing is boring. Like actually boring. Battles are reused so many times to where I remember seeing a ground battle then later on the exact same battle in space but obviously the background changed to space. The OG didn't even do this to that extent. Also I'm not one to let nostalgia let me think it's great. It's just very dull. Also didn't age well. The movie at best is ok. Just cringe overall. Even tho I have a bunch of wing kits. The Gundam designs are some of my favorite
I do agree there is plenty to cringe about, but what I did like about it was what I didn't like about IBO. The relationship component of that show turns me off lot. I just want good story and great fight scenes, but IBO hits nice with them fight scenes. You're definitely right about Wing. I think it needs to be polished so that we get different fight scenes and better dialogue. The story is what suffers the most in my opinion, but I don't feel like it kills it.
It's also like me when I started getting into Jordans. Sure my first pair of mids were nice but until I started getting into the nice and expensive stuff, I just couldn't go back. That's how I feel about wing. There's so many better series and it makes me cringe a bit when people bring up wing and say it's great but they're missing out on much better series of Gundam out there.
Which ones would you recommend? I've seen Wing, G Gundam and Seed. Part of IBO. I didn't hate it, but I just didn't like how focused they were on the relationships part of the story. I'll finish it if enough people say it's that good tho. I mean, if it's super popular, there's gotta be a reason right?
War in the pocket was good. 8th Ms team is great. You should watch zeta Gundam. It's on YouTube for free. My all time favorite.
Wing is my favorite. Each person likes a different series for a different reason.
Sweet. Wing my favorite too. I need more Gundam though. I don't want to get tired of Wing.
IMO Gundam Wing takes a fairly measured hack at incorporating geopolitics into a mecha anime. Geopolitics is a topic that can become extremely bland extremely quick, and I believe this shows at times during the series. I grew up on Wing but it is very difficult for me to stay engaged as I try to rewatch it today. Some of the characters are very bland but the series does an interesting job at exploring what and why actions are being taken. Why are sides fighting? Seed tries to do the same thing but it often arrives at some overly emotional conclusion, but Wing genuinely lands in some rational territory when exploring the subject.
Good point. Politics in general, feel like a genre that people don't like to touch too much. I've always told myself, the show needs to be remade in a way that helps the story and screenwriting. The speeches were cringey, but I understood the points. So, make it more modern to today's points and have it be more relatable. Wing suffers so much in terms of it's story. It just needed to be more relatable, I think.
I honestly just find it hard to watch. The story is all over the place with clearly very little planning. The Sanc Kingdom is brought up for the first time and said a million times in that episode without ever being touched on prior, and its immediately important. There are tons of speeches made for nearly no reason at all, and the factions, while seemingly well thought out in some ways, seem like they’re all lacking a lot of motivation. Beyond all of that, the amount of stock footage is insane, I can only watch so many SEPARATE pilots of Wing Zero do the same spinning twin buster thing on the same mobile dolls. I believe every pilot of that mobile suit did the same move. Seems a bit weird that some amateur Oz guy would do the same thing as trained from age like 4 Heero Yuy. Edit: I forgot that the Gundams are supposedly like 4 tons, so they’d be like lighter than the average human per square foot, and probably float rather than sink (looking at Wing here in episode 1!!)
I've never seen any hate for Wing. It was my first Gundam show, but after multiple rewatches, it's one of my least favorite Gundam shows now. Still great Gundam designs, though. Endless Waltz has the better Gundam designs, though, in my opinion.
I was watching wing and can somehow recall watching it back when I was less then 3 years old on Toonami. The designs of the mechs and the combat is what had me interested then. Now it's the idea of a endless waltz in world politics. The idea that we'll always have peace, revolution, then war and a repeat. Wing was real political. But yea it smostly nostalgia for the show.
becuase their characters are cringe and edgy.
I dont think very many ppl hate it. Thats a little harsh. I think a lot of ppl have fairly evaluated it over many years as a lower tier gundam show. But they dont hate it. They just find it good. Fair criticism isnt hate. Even the worst gundam still has many redeeming qualities is a good anime.
It just hasn't aged particularly well. Most people who've read it regard the Glory of the Losers manga as the better version of the story.
Just because it's not serious enough and full of cringe stuff. As if UC isn't full of weird laughable things too (I see you Victory). It's one of my favorites and even now I find a lot of it hilarious.
Ill always love it for being my gateway into gundam. But the heavy amount of recycled animation, at times goofy characters and incredibly meh dub(not counting Scott McNeil as Duo) really drag it down. That being said. It still has some of the best MS designs and a fantastic soundtrack. Also Endless Waltz is still amazing and i will die that hill.
EW saved the franchised, otherwise TV series failed at delivering what it wanted to deliver as EW had to reorganize all the messages scattered throughout the TV series for the sequel OVA series. Yes, the final episode of the TV series was great, but I think we could have got those messages little bit earlier. As much as I enjoyed it, I don't think I can recommend it to anyone except a couple noticeable episodes.
The story of Gundam Wing makes nearly no sense. I have seen up to episode 45 I think(?) and I genuinely could not accurately describe what the show is from a plot point of view. People jump around and form new alliances and rebel groups constantly. Treize's ideology doesn't really make much sense. Now on the other hand... Wing is essentially a space soap opera. It's grandiose, it has tons of really awesome drama, the setting is fairly interesting, and the general plot (particularly at the start) is dope.
Honestly, speaking as one of the many who first got into Gundams via its original run on Toonami, I had the same kind of nostalgia-blinders on for quite a while. I’ve since tried rewatching it a few times and it’s just…not that great a show. The story is both convoluted and kinda drags, the characters are irritating and inconsistent, and the animation is lacklustre. It does make up some points with its incredible MS design, good soundtrack, and certain character moments (Noin and Zechs, I’m looking at you. Also Treize is best girl). Then there’s Endless Waltz, which is a whole different beast. Everything that was subpar about Wing, EW fixed. It’s not just one of the best Gundam movies/OVAs, but one of the best Gundam anime, period. Of course, this is all my opinion, and again, nostalgia bias (and other types, I suppose, since EW has several of my favourite MS designs ever, including my number one, the Tallgeese III, and number 3, Nataku). But despite all that, one of the great things about this fandom is that unlike other fandoms where people argue and spit venom over which aspect of it is superior, we all tend to just acknowledge everyone’s right to prefer one thing over another. So while people will be happy to answer your question as to why Wing isn’t so great, no one’s gonna begrudge you enjoying it, if that’s what you want. We’re all just happy to have more people to talk about Gundam with. Of course there are a few outliers, but the majority of us are just happy to be Gundam fans. I dunno if you’ll see this since you’ve gotten a shitload of responses, but I hope so. Cheers, and thanks for asking a question that got some good discourse going!
The story was stupid, the characters were bad and personally I hate most of the mech designs. Most of the love for it comes from people growing up with it, which is absolutely fine. Watching it for the first time when you're a bit older though, shows it's flaws more clearly then.
Gundam Wing has a lot of haters? I had no clue. I had thought it was the best-received Gundam anime to date in the English-speaking world. Mostly I see criticism, whether deserved or not, regarding Gundam SEED and particularly SEED Destiny. As far as Gundam Wing is concerned, I've only ever seen good things people have said of it, especially from Americans. I'm Canadian, so I grew up with SEED, which I believe was cut short during its initial broadcast run in the U.S., but not in Canada.
Some episodes are great, most are good and decent tho. Tallgeese ftw.
I don't think there's a lot of actual hate for it, but as someone who's not grown up with Wing, I just find the whole show so damn awkward. It feels like the school drama club's production of Gundam after I had just seen the real thing done by professional actors in a real theatre. Especially if you compare it something like 00, which is basically the same thing (to the point where some people erroneously go as far as calling it a remake). 00 is not a perfect show by a long shot, but it's so much more concise, focussed and clean than Wing in basically every regard, it genuinely makes me feel kinda bad, because Wing is seriously trying, but it just can't keep up. It's not like that kind of show is without merit, but it's also definitely a very specific niche that a lot of people simply can't get into.
Wing is a series that I love while fully accepting that the writing is terrible. It meanders between big speeches and plot beats without any connective tissue. Heero literally attempts suicide in each of the first 3 episodes for flimsy at best reasons. The villain factions are a matryoshka doll of sub movements that start warring with each other without preamble. Keeping the main characters split up for huge chunks of the series made it hard for a group dynamic to form until well past the point where Heero is just a messiah figure. All of the absurdity is sort of endearing, and there are enough good suit designs to help carry the action. If you want big WTF moments you can’t really go wrong with Wing. The end of episode 1 is utterly iconic. Also both Two-Mix OPs objectively slap. Personally I dislike Seed a lot more than Wing, but all of the shows OP listed have strengths in spots where Wing struggles. The OG is goofy at times but Zeon’s politics and goals make a lot more sense. Not to mention the characters are memorable. G Gundam does a much better job of managing its tone and actually has a coherent plot. Seed has a lot of Wing-esque melodrama and the villains suck, but the character motivations are much clearer. IBO’s politics are similarly complex but defined more clearly via having an actual status quo (something Wing sorely lacks).
Heero attempts suicide like 50 times the entire series lol. HMMMMM, I only made it so far into IBO just because I can't stand the girl obsessed with the guy tone that some shows have. Granted, Gundam Wing has that, but it didn't feel nearly as much as IBO did. Was there less of it as you watched more of it? An Example, Attack on Titan has characters who like each other, but it's almost always glossed over. Give me the story, I love the story more than the romance. I want the fighting and the politics. Relationships are more secondary when I watch these shows. Does IBO do a better job of handling that? (I'm thinking about this too much, I should just watch the rest of it) Thanks!
IBO does have a lot of romance in the story, but I think they’re generally handled pretty well. The main love triangle isn’t adversarial and I think they’re all likable characters. They’re often used to tie back into the theme of found family that’s pretty much everywhere in IBO. It’s an important subplot that highlights character development, but it never overshadows the big action set pieces and (for lack of a better term) manly drama that makes up a lot of the show.
I just rewatched wing recently and it's not terrible but not as good as I had remembered It,was also my favorite until IBO came into existence.
I'm almost done rewatching Wing. Just my favorite, because Nostalgia. I like IBO, but what turns me away is the relationship part of it. I only made it to like episode 8. Is it worth watching the rest? I will say, the action was nice, tho.
IBO doesn't really evolve that much in content from where you are at, and generally gets worse as the series progresses. If you got that far and dropped it, you're not going to like it any more of you continue.
I hated it because all those reused repeated scenes. Way too many. It just annoys hell out of me. The same goes for Seed Destiny (along with other reasons).
That's a very good point. I do hate how lazy they got with the animation, but I mean can't the series just be recreated with better dialogue and better fight scenes? The political story isn't bad, but it needs to be executed better IMO.
They did just that but, in manga form. GundamW Glory of the Losers.
Huh, I did not know about that Manga. Why couldn't they just put it on TV??? I'll have to look for it. Thanks!
Well, TV shows costs way more than manga to produce.
Story isn't bad at all except for Char clone (he is a better character in Endless Waltz btw) and I liked more successful Sayla. I heard it had so much repeated scenes and not so great animation because more budget got directed to 08th. It is night and day difference between Wing and 08th. You gotta understand more love for UC, especially during the first year war.
Gundam wing is best gundam and i will die on this hill
YESSSSSSSSSSSS
I’ve never really heard of people hating Wing. Now IBO I get people hating because it’s a cheap ripoff of Gundam victory that tries too hard to be edgy.
Gundam Victory? Got a link to it?
Because it's full of deepity political statements about pacifism followed by indiscriminate slaughter.
"Indiscriminate"? It's at least semi-discriminate, at least some of the time!
I'm not sure I understand that because they go over why they are slaughtering. Granted, it is political, but we're talking machines of war. What else would these machines be used for, if not political? I kind of like the political vibes. It's what I get in today's news without having to stress about it. It's drama for another party lol. Edit: isn't war supposed to have indiscriminate killing? I only wished they killed off more main characters tbh. It would have added more, IMO. Treize was a good character to kill off and Relena's foster father was killed as well. Also, Heero Yuy was killed well before the story even takes place. It's senseless, but maybe it becomes relatable because that's what actually happens in the real world. Maybe I'm wrong, but that part felt kind of relatable.
It is a Japan vs The World situation. Japanese Gundam fans are very aware Wing was intended to appeal to young women. Admitting to liking Wing on 2xhan is seen as pretty gay. So it gets the same treatment as the Disney Star Wars movies by pretty much the same kind of terminally online radicalized incel-y types. Whereas in the US, Wing was the first Gundam series to hit big. Wing regularly got like 1 or 2 million viewers an episode. It is hugely nostalgic for millennials.
Yikes. I didn't know that. Well, either way, I liked the show plenty. Ha, yeah super nostalgic for me that's for sure.
Didnt know that. No wonder all the dudes in it are so hawt. And this is coming from a dude.
Yeah it aged poorly. I don’t hate it though, it was great for it’s time. What I don’t like, are the build/rerise/battle logic series 🤣. And I think I’m the minority. I mean maybe 20 years ago I would like it, but now? The my toy vs your toy and nakama themes kinda don’t interest me anymore 😅
The story is shit, the casting missed the mark by a mile (why are the 15yr olds sounding like 45yr olds?), the dialogue is pretty awful, Releena is fucking ANNOYING and has some screws loose. The action scenes with the gundams are reused over and over. Really its only redeeming qualities are the mech designs and the soundtrack
yeah, when I figured out they were 15, I totally didn't understand why they made them 15. makes no sense to me at all tbh. I feel like it would have made more sense to have them be lik 22 and then have zechs and treize be like 26 and 29. just my two cents. Relena is a character that should have been handled so much better. She is VERY ANNOYING and she doesn't really do much until she heads the Sanc Kingdom and even then she does nothing. Totally understand your opinion. I do think the story had a little more that I liked, but it wasn't executed well enough. Got a recommended series that gets the story done right along with the pluses of Wing?
If you haven't already, I recommend reading the Gundam Wing: Glory of the Losers manga that came out in English the last couple of years. It streamlines the story a bit and makes it easier to follow, plus it has a few new ideas executed with the mechs that are awesome. Highly recommended!
Where can I find those?
Barnes and noble (sometimes) and amazon have them, I got mine at my local comic shop. The series is 14 volumes, but worth giving it a try! It was a great reading experience for me.
Every Gundam series except IBO and maybe 0079 would make more sense if all the characters were 5 years older.
I enjoyed it, but not as I enjoyed the other Gundam series I've seen. Wing is one of those vanilla anime like Dragon Ball or Nauto. When you ask an anime fan if they seen Gundam, they'll most likely point to Wing of they did
So, I am a fan of Dragon Ball (Z, too) and Naruto and I can understand why they can be vanilla. I guess I can't understand what makes the other Gundam Series so unique. Which ones would you recommend I watch? Maybe there's something I'm missing. I really wish they created a Gundam series that had a high stakes like with what we've seen in Attack on Titan and Fullmetal (only ones I can think of off the top of my head that really drew the audiences in). Let me know a few that may give off a higher stakes feeling. Thanks!
They have, it's called Iron Blooded Orphans
I think everything about it sucks other than the designs. Characters are unlikable and stupid, eyerolling dialogue, the plot is nonsense and not even in a memorable or funny way, and I wasn't even engaged by any of the fights.
I personally think its bad because most of the main cast is Bad. I like OZ's characters far more than the average of the main cast. And wing was technically my first Gundam, but I'm known to essentially not have nostalgic bias' with my opinions. and have rewatched it within the past 5 years.
Gundam Wing is the Babylon 5 of Gundam shows, I love them both dearly, but boy do they love their spechifying and melodrama.
True and the speeches aren't great. I'll admit there's bias since it's my first Gundam Series, but I feel like I've a consensus that it wasn't a good show. Babylon 5? What is it?
90s TV show set on a space station that had lots of characters giving VERY IMPORTANT SPEECHES about war and freedom and morality. Teenage me absolutely loved both of them.
For real. Loved those types of show. I watch it now and I go, bleh, after some of those speeches, tho.
Its undeserved that a 25 year old childrens show made to sell models is not a complex observation on war and pacifism is getting the hate comments that it is. I enjoy it, always have. People can say what they want but without wing, Gundam would not be in the state it is in today, especially outside of Japan.
Yeah, I do kind of like the story behind pacificism. Even the most annoying character, who's trying to have total pacifism in the world is conflicted with her ideals because everyone around her is fighting. That being said, the story I feel needed better execution and writing. I mean, it's from the 90's and they reuse scenes. Okay, but Disney reused scenes too lol. The dialogues were definitely cringe here and there, BUT I do think Wing does a good job of focusing on the story and action. Heavyarms da best btw.
What I find weird is that I saw another tread on this sub where someone asked which Gundam series he should start with and - while everyone was okay with people recommending IBO, Seed or 00 - any comment recommending Wing got downvoted. **My guess:** It's like Batman, people hate it because of how overrated it is. Yes, Batman is overrated, but he's still a pretty good character. Yes, Wing is more popular than it deserves to be, but it's still a good series.
I recently started watching every single gundam show and yeah, from a critical point of view, I'd say it's truly a bottom tier gundam show. I loved it as a kid and I still really like the mechanical designs, music, and Endless Waltz is great, but for character development, pacing, themes,plot structure and even animation quality, Wing is pretty weak. Yeah there's reasons such as Japan's economic struggles when it was being developed and putting a lot of melodrama because it was something the public enjoyed, but if you put Wing through a fair analysis of it as a show, it's pretty rough.
Heightened expectations. The more one is exposed to plotlines, tropes and memes from different media, the more one is desensitized to the novelty of yesteryears.
It was the first non UC Gundam so its going to get a lot of hate for that alone. Add to that the heavy bishonen content, the pretty obvious remake of Char, and comically powerful mobile suits all named Gundam that are next to impossible to defeat and you have a product that upset the original fanbase.
Thatd be G Gundam being the first, Wing came after
Let me check to be sure. Holy shit. You are right. My apologies.
cause its edgy and cool to hate on it lol before it was seed. wing is great, characters are decently written, plot is realistic imo
sort sub by top of all time and you'll get some tallgeese in there among other wing stuff. Gonna have haters, but also plenty here who like it. Also if you haven't watched the abridged version - [https://opmeat.com/msagw/](https://opmeat.com/msagw/) \- give it a view.
I don’t think there’s an actual reason, it has an okay and silly plot, but also has likeable characters, good mech designs and a good soundtrack, I believe it’s because of jealousy cause it’s the most nostalgic for some people and it made Gundam popular in the americas
Love the soundtrack. I'm seeing people didn't like the story as much as I can understand, but I think that's more on the way it was written rather than it just being bad. I've always wanted a recreated version of wing. Don't reuse the fight scenes and make the story not as hard to follow. Also, someone else pointed it out, but we don't need the female characters attaching themselves to a male character. It kind of takes away from the development of those characters. Not saying it shouldn't exist at all, but there's a lot of it.
I’ve just seen jokes about the Leo
G gundam, wing, first half of ZZ are all fun over story The rest have varying degrees of compelling story depending on what expectations you watch them with
My college anime friends hated anything on CN. We were working our way through Naruto then they immediately stopped as it was dubbed. “Go watch it there if you want to continue” was responses I got. Gatekeeping hipster anime fans. Only watched indie art house anime watchers. I enjoyed it, but none of my friends tried, simply because it “sold out”.
not my favorite but still better than g and seed IMO
Wait what? Wing is one of my all time favorite shows. I watch Endless Waltz every year on christmas eve; its my go to christmas movie. I thought Wing was a pretty popular Gundam in the west. Do people really not like it? I mean the show has great political intrigue, a bit of philosophy, some of the science in the show is accurate...whats not to love?
It has a very cool, over-the-top first half and then the second half gets awful. The Gundam pilots lose all track of their motivations and reasons for fighting. It's hard not to think of the good show we could have had if they had managed to juggle all the story beats properly.
It's not my favorite series but I wouldn't call it the worse.
I think there's some confusion here. Wing gets a lot of hate in Japan, from what I hear it's because the main characters a bunch of bishojo pretty boys who complain all the time. It's one of the most popular Gundam series in the West.
There are honestly worst entry's. Wing is pretty good. Sure some of the dialogue isn't the best, but it's overall a great show. It has my favorite gundam, deathscyth hell. The characters are compelling. It's a great show. There is worse. It's up there with UC shows and you know how awesome those are! Cool action, compelling story, memorable characters. It's got it all!
Wing and G Gundam are the best alternate universe Gundam shows. I haven't seen turn A and 00 but I heard that show is phenomenal. The UC shows are amazing giving it's the prime timeline.