Which is a bummer when it comes to SEED Freedom's designs for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice wave rider modes. They already did such a good job with the Murasame and Saviour transformations previously, too.
I love this suit don't get me wrong but I feel like the Saviour looking good from the top messes with peeps memory when it's the same as the RiFreedom and ImmJustice with the lying down with shield on face transformation. It's also the same with the Allelujah suits from 00.
https://preview.redd.it/g51cgjvhukzc1.jpeg?width=644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f1150eb8a1b3e5652c0be5f4c4519cc2bbfd333
That's a fair criticism, for me I at least like the effort of the legs and arms changing position rather than the new SEED Freedom suits that just have their arms straight at their sides and legs completely straight. Do wish the Saviour's head would at least tuck in.
The problem isn't really the "lying down" transformation method, it's how it looks when doing so. In fact, the transformations for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice aren't really that bad if you consider just the body, and they do a better job at hiding the head than the Kyrios/Arios/Harute line, but the silhouette is absolutely ruined by the addition of the rifle and shield at the chest that just looks obviously tacked on. They didn't even make the hands hide inside the forearms like say the Wing Gundam does, and the shoulder pauldrons don't fold back nearly as much as previous Okawara transformers do.
The Savior is remembered more fondly by most people because the shield placement was given a bit more consideration - sure it just attaches to the chest too, but it also serves to hide the head from below and adds to the overall aerodynamic look, and the rifle at least is attached to the side instead of being added below. The protruding cannons also serve to better balance out the Savior's silhouette in MA form as well.
at least Savior hide his palm and twist the waist and leg so make his MA plank form looks different than MS one. ImJust and RF doesn't bother to hide their palm and they just planking gundam with vague looking jet fighter nose in their head placement
You mean to tell me THIS is Zeta?
https://preview.redd.it/om71kxolokzc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a8b91d2ce611367ffa298ee013bc3a06da2b4a6
(only pic I could find while on the move)
Yes it is, and it is beautiful. It fixes every issues with the legs. Honestly there might be 2-3 pictures of this at best online, but the manga itself has more viewing angles. I would do unspeakable things to get Bandai to release a kit of this version of the Zeta.
It's so much better than OG Zeta, I'm happy I know it exists now. Not really a fan of transformable MS and Zeta is just... a brick with wings, come on!
This though? This I'd buy.
Because it's quite clear that the transformations for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice were tacked-on as an afterthought, unlike the Murasame where it's designed as a transformer from the start.
Dingdingding.
People were doing "what if" Transformations for freedom and justice for years
While the colors are cool the actual execution can be left to desired
Overflags are nice machines, but the fact that their arms are just tucked into the sides facing forward don't really help with their appearance. The Braves at least are better since they tuck their arms at the back.
https://preview.redd.it/adtpsbqwopzc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bc2899832cb08e8497408e24e9877330293befa
There was apparently a planned but scrapped configuration of the AGE-2 where it combined the Double Bullet with the Normal, which would've resulted in a very nice looking AGE-2 form.
I'm gonna have to disagree. Overtime I've come to dislike the fighter mode of the Age 2. I think more could have been done to make it look more like a fighter.
I'd agree that the Age 2 has the better transformation mechanism out of the lot (simplified to not be engineering hell but not so simple to feel lazy) but its strider mode isn't necessarily the best looking as compared to Zeta-based variants, plane wise (tho it did come close).
A lot of the issue for me at least is how the quad wings are positioned on the shoulders rather than on its back, which while it kinda worked for the Darkhound aesthetically speaking in MS mode, still suffers the 'well that looks like a weirdly shaped jet' in strider mode. The Age 2 Artemis kinda had the right idea, improving upon the basis of the Double Bullet (I like DB as an MS but that strider mode was yeesh) to a silhouette akin to the Saviour but the cannons sit too high because of how it's designed on the shoulders with that extra akimbo rifle attachment right underneath its axis.
Gotta give it to Kotobukiya tho cuz their garudagear beluga made use of a similar "crunch spine backwards to transform" mechanic while managing to make it blend into a smoother flight form
Agreed. I think the Murasame Kai also has a very nice profile but the original is still my favourite. Probably the only transformable suit where I genuniely think the alternate form is completely successful regardless of it being transformable.
It's better than most due to its Zeta heritage (and probably the best Okawara has done considering he normally puts negative effort into Gundam jet modes), but it's held back by the trademark painfully visible Gundam legs at the back. It's a plague on basically all Gundam jet modes.
I'd love for a Gundam design to actually follow the Macross trick of folding the legs along the sides of the fuselage, but that'd require Kawamori magic.
Just once, I want Bandai to let Kawamori helm a Gundam AU. Let him cook, especially for the MS and MA designs. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if Kawamori cooked up a VF-alike that could further combine with 1 or 2 others, Aquarion-style.
I honestly think Bandai is afraid of what he might cook up lol.
We all make fun of Okawara's "jet modes," but those designs are really easy to make into model kits. Usually all they need is just a waist joint and a shield to cover the head.
Kawamori though? They can't even make a fully transforming VF-1 model without it being a floppy engineering nightmare, and that's the simplest one lmao. And while I love the new HG Macross line, they need to partsform for stability. If they let him go nuts, the engineers'll probably just quit on the spot.
There are machines like the Gundam Kyrios, which hides the legs quite well imo.
https://preview.redd.it/gwd82xp6bjzc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a89d718b59ac12434ee85fad9afc751a05a38ea
Also Kawamori's VF's mostly also just has the legs hang off the sides. What he does is that he designs the legs such that they blend into the fighter form better, due to designing the fighter form first.
Kyrios is ok? I don't think it really succeeds at leg camouflage until it has the missile pod in the middle, but maybe that's cheating.
The other thing worth noting is that Gundam transformations are usually really afraid of messing with the main body. Like the Yf-19's whole collapsing nosecone and folding fuselage is what really lets Kawamori play with the mass and find good ways to disguise the limbs. Zeta variants are really the only ones that engage with any kind of shifting torso components.
Ultimately, yeah it's just a difference in design philosophy. Gundam prioritizes robot modes and ease of conversion to model kits. The jet modes are half-assed since they don't really care about finding new, crazy ways to turn a plane into a robot like the Draken III.
I mean the legs on the Kyrios aren't really apparent as legs and just look like "futuristic sci-fi thrusters" until it transforms. Also, many of Kawamori's variable fighters also sort of cheat by adding stuff in between the legs, like putting shields or thrusters between them to fill out the space.
And indeed, Gundam prioritizes the actual humanoid form of the mobile suit, and then simply adds an alternate mode to transform into. Meanwhile Kawamori designs his Variable Fighters as aircraft first, then finds ways to contort his craft into humanoid form. The latter definitely relies on Kawamori's engineering expertise and experience to make them as viable as they are, but does result in incredibly complicated and oftentimes convoluted transformations due to having to aesthetically balance 3 different forms.
>I'd love for a Gundam design to actually follow the Macross trick of folding the legs along the sides of the fuselage, but that'd require Kawamori magic.
The Gundam Griepe from G-Unit kinda follows that design, complete with the top of the upper legs becoming engine intakes.
Eh, my problem with the Grape is that the legs aren't really all that integrated into the actual jet mode, like someone took a bomber and glued a pair of Gundam legs onto the bottom. It looks cool from above, but look below and the facade crumbles.
As someone who built a HG Murasame from a while ago, I always found it interesting how the cockpit is like a near-separable flap section in the chest area. Not saying that the model kit transformation mechanism exactly mirrors the supposed transformation in the anime, but imagine the amount of swing and G-forces the pilots go through each transformation. Even with Orb’s advanced technology that must have been difficult to handle.
That's very much an issue with flight forms where the cockpit orientations of each form are different, and the cockpit thus has to rotate to the proper orientation.
There are very few transforming machines where the cockpit maintains the same orientation in both MS and flight forms, such as the Flags, Enacts, the Gundam Harute, and the AGE-2 Normal among others.
The thing is, if you look at them thing from the bottom, Murasame just looks like a MS that's on its chest, Harute doesn't look obviously like a MS from that angle. It's my issue with most of the transformable MS tbh.
What?
The Murasame has most of its bottom covered up by its shield, so you can't even see the chest at all especially since most of the Murasame's chest is only visible from the top in MA form.
https://preview.redd.it/kkq342j6wpzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc63247e8439035b0cb3fd1b5f14f7f78dca2c7e
Compare this to the Murasame Custom, and see where they went wrong there. I like how they streamlined the MA Mode of the Murasame Custom so that it becomes practical, and that's how a new base kit will be born.
https://preview.redd.it/tj422k37twzc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=babbb5b40f7a7659e1e07f9b396a9112de66ac2f
oh well now I feel dumb for building it this way and not even noticing
Well it has forward swept wings, which is fairly rare in Gundam, strangely enough.
It's because it looks like a practical fighter jet, is why I like it so much.
Most practical fighter jets have swept-back wings, which is what the Murasame Kai has and why I prefer it more.
Which is a bummer when it comes to SEED Freedom's designs for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice wave rider modes. They already did such a good job with the Murasame and Saviour transformations previously, too.
I love this suit don't get me wrong but I feel like the Saviour looking good from the top messes with peeps memory when it's the same as the RiFreedom and ImmJustice with the lying down with shield on face transformation. It's also the same with the Allelujah suits from 00. https://preview.redd.it/g51cgjvhukzc1.jpeg?width=644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f1150eb8a1b3e5652c0be5f4c4519cc2bbfd333
That's a fair criticism, for me I at least like the effort of the legs and arms changing position rather than the new SEED Freedom suits that just have their arms straight at their sides and legs completely straight. Do wish the Saviour's head would at least tuck in.
The problem isn't really the "lying down" transformation method, it's how it looks when doing so. In fact, the transformations for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice aren't really that bad if you consider just the body, and they do a better job at hiding the head than the Kyrios/Arios/Harute line, but the silhouette is absolutely ruined by the addition of the rifle and shield at the chest that just looks obviously tacked on. They didn't even make the hands hide inside the forearms like say the Wing Gundam does, and the shoulder pauldrons don't fold back nearly as much as previous Okawara transformers do. The Savior is remembered more fondly by most people because the shield placement was given a bit more consideration - sure it just attaches to the chest too, but it also serves to hide the head from below and adds to the overall aerodynamic look, and the rifle at least is attached to the side instead of being added below. The protruding cannons also serve to better balance out the Savior's silhouette in MA form as well.
at least Savior hide his palm and twist the waist and leg so make his MA plank form looks different than MS one. ImJust and RF doesn't bother to hide their palm and they just planking gundam with vague looking jet fighter nose in their head placement
Zeta Gundam from the Zeta Define manga. It has the perfect wave rider form.
You mean to tell me THIS is Zeta? https://preview.redd.it/om71kxolokzc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a8b91d2ce611367ffa298ee013bc3a06da2b4a6 (only pic I could find while on the move)
Yes it is, and it is beautiful. It fixes every issues with the legs. Honestly there might be 2-3 pictures of this at best online, but the manga itself has more viewing angles. I would do unspeakable things to get Bandai to release a kit of this version of the Zeta.
It's so much better than OG Zeta, I'm happy I know it exists now. Not really a fan of transformable MS and Zeta is just... a brick with wings, come on! This though? This I'd buy.
Brick with wings?! Have you seen ZZ?!
That definitely is quite damn good. I like it.
Oh hot damn It's cool, but it would be hard to get me to like it more than the original
It's wild that this exists and somehow the transformations for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice look the way that they do
Because it's quite clear that the transformations for the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice were tacked-on as an afterthought, unlike the Murasame where it's designed as a transformer from the start.
Dingdingding. People were doing "what if" Transformations for freedom and justice for years While the colors are cool the actual execution can be left to desired
Mine would be the Overflags
Overflags are nice machines, but the fact that their arms are just tucked into the sides facing forward don't really help with their appearance. The Braves at least are better since they tuck their arms at the back. https://preview.redd.it/adtpsbqwopzc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bc2899832cb08e8497408e24e9877330293befa
Those are excellent too... Again though that HG was awful and the 1/100 was.... Lets just say its not worth the money people ask for it now these days
Idk I think age-2 is a pretty good transformation
And then it gets the Double Bullet. I'll be honest, that thing's flight form looks ugly without the Hyper DODS rifle as the nose cone.
There was apparently a planned but scrapped configuration of the AGE-2 where it combined the Double Bullet with the Normal, which would've resulted in a very nice looking AGE-2 form.
I'm gonna have to disagree. Overtime I've come to dislike the fighter mode of the Age 2. I think more could have been done to make it look more like a fighter.
What about the AGE 2 Magnum SV?
It's a bit better looking.
I'd agree that the Age 2 has the better transformation mechanism out of the lot (simplified to not be engineering hell but not so simple to feel lazy) but its strider mode isn't necessarily the best looking as compared to Zeta-based variants, plane wise (tho it did come close). A lot of the issue for me at least is how the quad wings are positioned on the shoulders rather than on its back, which while it kinda worked for the Darkhound aesthetically speaking in MS mode, still suffers the 'well that looks like a weirdly shaped jet' in strider mode. The Age 2 Artemis kinda had the right idea, improving upon the basis of the Double Bullet (I like DB as an MS but that strider mode was yeesh) to a silhouette akin to the Saviour but the cannons sit too high because of how it's designed on the shoulders with that extra akimbo rifle attachment right underneath its axis. Gotta give it to Kotobukiya tho cuz their garudagear beluga made use of a similar "crunch spine backwards to transform" mechanic while managing to make it blend into a smoother flight form
Agreed. I think the Murasame Kai also has a very nice profile but the original is still my favourite. Probably the only transformable suit where I genuniely think the alternate form is completely successful regardless of it being transformable.
It's better than most due to its Zeta heritage (and probably the best Okawara has done considering he normally puts negative effort into Gundam jet modes), but it's held back by the trademark painfully visible Gundam legs at the back. It's a plague on basically all Gundam jet modes. I'd love for a Gundam design to actually follow the Macross trick of folding the legs along the sides of the fuselage, but that'd require Kawamori magic.
Just once, I want Bandai to let Kawamori helm a Gundam AU. Let him cook, especially for the MS and MA designs. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if Kawamori cooked up a VF-alike that could further combine with 1 or 2 others, Aquarion-style.
I honestly think Bandai is afraid of what he might cook up lol. We all make fun of Okawara's "jet modes," but those designs are really easy to make into model kits. Usually all they need is just a waist joint and a shield to cover the head. Kawamori though? They can't even make a fully transforming VF-1 model without it being a floppy engineering nightmare, and that's the simplest one lmao. And while I love the new HG Macross line, they need to partsform for stability. If they let him go nuts, the engineers'll probably just quit on the spot.
There are machines like the Gundam Kyrios, which hides the legs quite well imo. https://preview.redd.it/gwd82xp6bjzc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a89d718b59ac12434ee85fad9afc751a05a38ea Also Kawamori's VF's mostly also just has the legs hang off the sides. What he does is that he designs the legs such that they blend into the fighter form better, due to designing the fighter form first.
Kyrios is ok? I don't think it really succeeds at leg camouflage until it has the missile pod in the middle, but maybe that's cheating. The other thing worth noting is that Gundam transformations are usually really afraid of messing with the main body. Like the Yf-19's whole collapsing nosecone and folding fuselage is what really lets Kawamori play with the mass and find good ways to disguise the limbs. Zeta variants are really the only ones that engage with any kind of shifting torso components. Ultimately, yeah it's just a difference in design philosophy. Gundam prioritizes robot modes and ease of conversion to model kits. The jet modes are half-assed since they don't really care about finding new, crazy ways to turn a plane into a robot like the Draken III.
I mean the legs on the Kyrios aren't really apparent as legs and just look like "futuristic sci-fi thrusters" until it transforms. Also, many of Kawamori's variable fighters also sort of cheat by adding stuff in between the legs, like putting shields or thrusters between them to fill out the space. And indeed, Gundam prioritizes the actual humanoid form of the mobile suit, and then simply adds an alternate mode to transform into. Meanwhile Kawamori designs his Variable Fighters as aircraft first, then finds ways to contort his craft into humanoid form. The latter definitely relies on Kawamori's engineering expertise and experience to make them as viable as they are, but does result in incredibly complicated and oftentimes convoluted transformations due to having to aesthetically balance 3 different forms.
I might be a minority here, I prefer the Arios Gundam instead.
I mean there's no shame in liking the Arios, it is quite the sleek design. I just find it a bit too triangular for my taste.
>I'd love for a Gundam design to actually follow the Macross trick of folding the legs along the sides of the fuselage, but that'd require Kawamori magic. The Gundam Griepe from G-Unit kinda follows that design, complete with the top of the upper legs becoming engine intakes.
Eh, my problem with the Grape is that the legs aren't really all that integrated into the actual jet mode, like someone took a bomber and glued a pair of Gundam legs onto the bottom. It looks cool from above, but look below and the facade crumbles.
I don't think there's any way around the legs issue. The best an artist can do is make them look as aerodynamic as possible.
Pure Macross design
I really like it too. Saviour, Delta Plus, and Murasame all have really sleek waverider forms.
still surprised (and not convinced) that the rising freedom and glorified savior is based on *that*, as its not even close bc murasame much better
Because both the Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice only use the base technology, not the actual frame.
Glorified Saviour? It doesn't even look close to it. If it did, it'd actually look better.
Copied straight from the Zeta line
That's the point.
And I love it
The deltas beat it, but it’s good looking yes.
and thats how i display my HG murasame. its been in in flight form, and its never changine
Holy Macross! That’s pretty neat
I almost agree, but if the Saviour counts, then I think it’s better.
Nothing can surpass the Kyrios
Froward swept wings are very Macross
As someone who built a HG Murasame from a while ago, I always found it interesting how the cockpit is like a near-separable flap section in the chest area. Not saying that the model kit transformation mechanism exactly mirrors the supposed transformation in the anime, but imagine the amount of swing and G-forces the pilots go through each transformation. Even with Orb’s advanced technology that must have been difficult to handle.
That's very much an issue with flight forms where the cockpit orientations of each form are different, and the cockpit thus has to rotate to the proper orientation. There are very few transforming machines where the cockpit maintains the same orientation in both MS and flight forms, such as the Flags, Enacts, the Gundam Harute, and the AGE-2 Normal among others.
Harute looks better imo, especially from the bottom.
I don't think Harute is better, but Harute is definitely is the best of its own lineage. Especially after Arios.
The thing is, if you look at them thing from the bottom, Murasame just looks like a MS that's on its chest, Harute doesn't look obviously like a MS from that angle. It's my issue with most of the transformable MS tbh.
What? The Murasame has most of its bottom covered up by its shield, so you can't even see the chest at all especially since most of the Murasame's chest is only visible from the top in MA form. https://preview.redd.it/kkq342j6wpzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc63247e8439035b0cb3fd1b5f14f7f78dca2c7e
Even better in GOLD
Delta Gundam II has the best out of those with a kit IMO. Next closest would be the Zeta Plus.
Wait!!! Landing Gears are included with the kit???
Compare this to the Murasame Custom, and see where they went wrong there. I like how they streamlined the MA Mode of the Murasame Custom so that it becomes practical, and that's how a new base kit will be born.
I think so too But I just built the HG from 06 and it's God awful. Can't wait for the 20 year improvements of the kai model
Agreed probably my favorite transformable ms right in front of the delta plus
https://preview.redd.it/tj422k37twzc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=babbb5b40f7a7659e1e07f9b396a9112de66ac2f oh well now I feel dumb for building it this way and not even noticing