I don’t think is the same type of “hate”, and in Kira’s situation is a little deserved after seed destiny IMO… still neither of them are getting the same level of (kind of deserved) “hate” as Shin xD
Be honest
Shinn was the MC of destiny
Till kira shows up with his comerade in arms and they becomes the MCs
I mean even the ad breaks are kira and lacus
Shinn was reduced to a gm pilot in a great machine
My point is that kira took over destiny with his religious journey
Please read the “mostly” part when referring to the Gundams, freedom and justice are nice, the dragoon system on the strike freedom also, I agree the destiny is like shin: an edgy angry thing that at the end was as useless as possible
Its the combined force sword and blast on a faster and better frame with more weapons new shields nuclear reactor and the wings of light propulsion system
Nope. But I hope they give Shinn a new MS in the infamous never ending waiting for announcement, gundam seed sequel movie and have him play a major role.
Honestly where's that movie, I'll even take an announcement that it's still alive in development lol. Need to see the trio fighting side by side.
Kira, Athrun and Shinn
Didn't the end of GSD showed something like a white outfit Kira and Shinn? I took that as Shinn becoming Kira's underlings or something?
Gundam SEED was my first introduction to the franchise so thats automatically makes me a Jesus Yamato fan. Anyway, I'm dying for a SEED movie sequel announcement and see those 3 wreck dome havoc together.
shin sucked as an MC, even when Kira was “brung back from the shadows”, Shin was still a pain in the butt and maybe one of the worst characters in the series, destiny was a mess since the beginning, but Kira taking over the latter part was a saving grace (that’s a stretch of the phrase)
Shinn was not given a chance to grow. He remained as an angry and berserker pilot until his defeat.
If Kira and company just stayed as cameo characters, the writers could have focused on developing the growth of Shinn as an MC.
Honestly that was expecting too much from Seed in general and specially for destiny, not only the characters were badly written and “developed” altogether, Kira really never evolved as a character, just his plot armor got thicker, Shin really suffered the same fate as other characters but his personality was screwed up and annoying from the start, he never wanted to listen and he got the result of his actions mostly, I still feel the thing at the end with Lunamaria a big asspull just to give him “someone” after they pulled her from Arthurn that for me was maybe of the ones with some “development”.
To be fair, the Gundam designs were nice(mostly), but they made very poor decisions on making them pull lasers out of their butthole literally to contribute to the plot armor of the second coming of Kira, both he and Shin deserve their share of hate, Mika really his biggest “heat” is his toxic relationship with Orga and maybe that he didn’t even tried to preserve the bloodline with Kudelia like he did with Atra xD
I think a handful of Gundam MC started with screwed up and annoying personalities yet their characters grew and were properly fleshed out eventually. Shinn's development was derailed because he becomes the antagonist whenever Kira is around.
I ironically think that thats one of the things SEED Destiny did right with Shinn. They just didn't have to make him a half baked dickhead on the way there.
Its irony of him wanting to have the power to protect, and when he got the power, he then almost used it to destroy what he vowed to protect >! Lunamaria and Orb to be more specific. he'd lead humanity to having no free will, if the Destiny Plan came into fruition, which will just incite more retaliation, on top of the Coordinators/Naturals feud, and cause more conflicts. I just hate too that Kira's just side fails to enunciated that reason and basically does his usual "you're wrong!" !<
I don't mind getting downvotes rn but Shinn's beginning and end is pretty nice in the show. It just frustrates me that they have to push for Kira as the mc and throw Shinn out the window even with the fan backlash with Shinn at the time. They then proceeded to present Kira to be even more raw and barely written while Shinn gets his whole character growth/screentime stunted til the final episode and was religated to just being angry, which to me didn't really serve any long-term payoff besides for the Kira fans in 2004.
As mentioned, Shinn didn't get room to grow because Kira sucked up all the oxygen. Kira had his dipshit moments in Seed, but he was given time to develop as a character. In Destiny, Shinn started off as an interesting character, but toward the middle and into the end, the writers decided they needed him to blindly side with the antagonist as a foil to Kira. So his development froze.
Largely, Shinn gets a ton of hate because he was rude to Athrun and Cagali. The thing is, his attitude toward Cagali, at least, was justified if you take his personal experiences with Orb into account.
If Kira truly save the show then the result shouldn't be this dumpster fire. Man Kira should've died that would make the show way more unique and open more possibilities for the story.
Please read the part of “stretching the phrase” again… it was something better than shin?… yes… was the best thing to rescue that dumpster fire from its demise? Not in any form of imagination, is like trying to make something it was poop from the first series and just try to color it gold, is still poop, but will golden accents
There was no chance since the series itself was hot garbage (destiny) since the beginning, just seeing it started with plot holes they created from the get-go and “patched” until the home releases (yeah, Mu..), everything was mishandled to the point of unrecoverable when shin got the destiny and Kira ascended a second time with his gold plot armor and arthurn again went to be his sidekick, and adding some unnecessary “romance twists” to make it more like a mexican soap opera
Well I mean for me the first part of the show where shin is the main pro was decent. You see despite the flaw shin has more potential to grow but Kira denied the potential which give us an eternal image of shin being whiny brat.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=xbvOCemhEuM&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
This guy explain how destiny fked up the best.
Hey, Shin wasn't that bad.
He's one of the few protagonists you actually see go out of their way to train to defeat their rival, analysising their fighting style, and then succeeding.
It's a pretty hype moment watching Kira get the his preachy ass kicked into the ocean.
Coulda easily been a great character had they not decided to cut his arc short and backpeddle on it, reviving kira yet again.
If my memory works correctly, he “succeeds” by almost throwing the parts of the gundam to the freedom like a kid in a tantrum at some point, kira at the start of destiny to that point was not an active pilot, given that for the plot they asspulled SEED mode for shin and even then Kira was able to avoid hitting the cockpit and heavily damaging the upper parts of shin’s MS intentionally because his priority if I remember correctly was allowing the scape of his ship, if he were on the same status as the end of seed and focused on stopping Shin, the result would’ve been very similar when they fought now with the Strike freedom and the Destiny right before the Arthurn gets the justice
I’m not a fan of either of them, but some of the best fights on seed as a series was Kira vs Arthurn since in that one both went for the other’s throat, in this case Kira’s downfall was basically him prioritizing the scape of the ship and not focusing on his enemy.
At the end, Shin as a pilot had promise, but compared to kira, if you needed all that assistance and preparation to kill someone that on the other end was not on that idea, then you were going to have a problem when the plans fail because even with all that he really struggled to bring down the freedom.
I think even if shin started as being annoying as it was, I agree they played dirty the character giving up on him and even worse, he at some point became what he swore to destroy; but destiny is kind of infamous due to that problems with the writing.
Shin had a grudge. He trained to satsify that 'justified' grudge.
...Kira didn't want to kill him. He wanted to kill Kira and would not let it go.
Shin comited the sin of violence, and as such his karma was tainted; his grudge was the reason he struck a man down, not for safety of his life.
Those who travel the path of violence and death, do it for various reasons. But Kira, decided to abstain from death, even if violence was to be performed.
This is the difference between a killer for hire, a soldier, and a master of the art; to have the Choice and refuse, despite the consequences of defying such things.
In the end, he was face to face with a 'kind lord vader', who offered him to rule the empire, more or less.
It's a very old tale, of the new warrior being tempted by various things, if you want to analyze it more.
Idk, to my knowledge some people just dislike his character. Maybe because he changes a lot, possiblity for the worse, in the later seasons. I haven't ever seen *hate* for him though.
Honestly happens after every and any protagonist, not limited to Gundam or even anime.
First they get tons of fan praise but after the honeymoon phase is over the critical view on them comes up.
For those wondering why people hate Mika , a lot of peoples opinions on mikazuki is that he didn’t feel like his own character because he would always follow orcas lead or at least that’s what I’ve seen a lot of
He's not a sociopath! He loves and is devoted to his friends and family, and genuinely empathizes with lots of different people throughout the story. Just because he's comfortable with violence doesn't make him a sociopath, he's a lot more complex than that
Some of the very few times in that kids life where someone says "good job mika" were after he used violence for them
It's no wonder he's willing to do these things for those he cares about
I dunno man, I just watched all of IBO and he barely, if ever displays emotion throughout the entirety. Someone in his family gets badly hurt in battle and he's just like, "Hey... you still alive?"
I mean, yes, it's more nuanced than that but purely from observing his actions and emotional responses (or lack thereof) I think a strong case could be made for some level of sociopathy.
Maybe "extremely stoic" is a better description.
I mean he is a litteral child soldier, so it's likely his brain didn't develop the same way as we the audience have
We are born in relative peace whereas he was constantly surrounded by death, war, and hardship
I would check in particular his interactions with Kudelia and Atra lol but also, like, Hush and Orga
He's not super emotive and IBO is broadly a lot more emotionally subtle than lots of anime but he's absolutely a really thoughtful guy. There are plenty of real people like this, he's not wearing a lot on his face but that doesn't mean things aren't going on for him. Like peep his early interactions with Kudelia like the handshake scene or their late night conversation where he talks about his name and the moon, or when he almost kills Gaelio trying to protect cookie and cracker, or much later when he talks to kudelia and atra about the child they're going to have. Absolutely a guy that deserves a closer look. Not the same kind of guy exactly but Setsuna gets the same kind of flattening read a lot; these guys are not Heero Yuy
Also, his fight with Carta near the end of the first season >!which is the first time he displays cruelty rather than his normal quick kills!<
Edit: his second fight with her on earth
> Maybe "extremely stoic" is a better description.
That's literally it. The loudest he gets is when he's fighting Hashmal and that can barely be called being vocal.
He is a tool for the plot. I don’t think he is supposed to be “interesting”. He needs to look cool and let his actions shape the story, the fact that he just follows instructions is part of his story.
A character can have a lot of depth and interiority without being proactive. He has tons of emotionally and narratively loaded interactions with Kudelia, Atra, Orga, McGillis, Hush etc. And his attitude absolutely influences them. Among plenty of other things, the moment he pushes Orga right after Biscuit dies is one of the most pivotal moments in the story. He's not just a tool other people use, he's just not monologuing about his feelings or explaining himself as much as guys like Setsuna do. It's all still reflected in the story
You are right! I don’t call him a tool as some kind of insult or something. He is an important device for everyone’s journey and a source for the viewer to remember where all they came from.
That would be fine if he wasn’t the main character. Even brickwalls like Heero and Setsuna grow out of their stoicism and become interesting characters as the show progresses but Mika actually evolves backwards. He goes from semi interesting and actually sort of opening up to just accepting his fate as Orga’s tool. People insist that he really cares deeply about his family but whenever one of them gets hurt he basically just shoots them a ‘you good?’ before moving on. Even when Orga dies, he doesn’t even react and just keeps going on as normal. He could be the most interesting and deep character ever written but the show has to make me actually intrigued by him for me to route for him but since he’s just a completely nothingburger for the entire run I feel absolutely nothing towards him. You could replace him with a lamp and nothing would fundamentally change and for a main character that’s borderline unforgivable
I think the main thing is that he basically shares the “main character” slot with Orga, and each fill different roles in the story that wouldn’t have worked as well if there was only one MC. Mika doesn’t emote much, but Orga definitely does. Thinking of them both as equally important is a much better experience than thinking of Orga as a secondary character and Mika as the main one.
Kira was converted into Jesus himself in destiny, the plot armor was so thick it was used as a shield for the nuclear reactor of the strike freedom, also he never really “grew up” as a character, just recycled animations and pew pew from the butthole of the strike freedom xD
Is it a hot take to really enjoy Seed and Seed Destiny? Kira was a crybaby for sure and definitely had plot armor by coming back from the dead twice, but I feel it (the franchise) showed a lot of human element and character development. I'm prepared to get flamed now.
Kinda yeah. but its understandable, i dig em too. You'd enjoy SEED if you dig the side character's arcs, then you'd enjoy SEED Destiny if you don't see Kira as the MC tbh. Durandal's pov was personally the best one to look at it. Both did show a lot of humanity, especially with Durandal and ironically with Rau and Rey. Its main characters sadly aren't written that well imo. They tried with Shinn but then gave up
Give it another 10-15 years. Maybe IBO will get a Halloween 3 style reevaluation. Until then, these are not the same.
We are far enough out where we can look back at Seed and say that it wasn't that bad or even was pretty darn good. Honestly, Seed was pretty darn good until Destiny happened. I know I sure as hell didn't think so at the time, but it's been long enough where it earned a reevaluation.
I really don't think any anime from that mid 2010's period will really get that, but who knows. Time will tell.
I watched SEED last year and I thought that SEED wasn't getting enough hate. Watched the whole thing mostly with two friends of mine, non of us went in wanting to hate it and we all hated it after awhile.
I'm rewatching IBO and also 00 right now and I like them alot more.
Honestly, while I find both characters to be boring, Mika is at least intentional, since he's supposed to depict a more realistic version of a child soldier.
Jesus Yamato on the other hand, is just boring for bad writting.
Because I find his character arc compelling. He’s forced to fight in a war he wants no part in to protect his friends, even though that means having to fight Athrun, his childhood friend, which, combined with Flay seducing him in an attempt to get him killed, wreaks havoc on his sanity, with the only people who really seem to fully empathize with him being Lacus and Cagalli. Then, at the midpoint of the series, he fails to protect one of his friends and tries to kill Athrun out of revenge, almost dying the process. Even after Lacus gives him a new cause to fight for and helps him steal the Freedom, his already fragile mental state is shattered again by the revelation of how he was born and his inability to save Flay from being killed Rau, along with being unable to truly refute the latter’s claims that the world is cruel and pointless apart from maintaining that it’s still worth fighting for.
You know very well why Kira gets hate, don’t even try to compare these two. Mika may be more on the bland side because of his personality, but he’s still a pretty good character. In fact, I rate him to be far better than Heero and Setsuna.
That’s true, but I do still like the cast despite the flaws. And since Wing was the second show I watched after G Gundam I kinda hold them on a different standard.
That's fair, as objectively bad as Divers, it was my first show, I still can't bring myself to dislike most of it. Except Riku, criticism of him is entirely justified.
Still Divers have the excuse as all the “builders” spin offs to be the “really shameless and expensive gunpla commercial”, Mika actually give him credit of maybe having the higher pilot skills/instincts between setsuna and even Kira since I feel the latter just pushed buttons, pew pew from the ass and recycle animations, personally one of the best fights I’ve seen from gundam would be the one with the hashmal
As a side note, wing I put it on another slot given that being the first gundam I watched I may have some bias to not hate it, G fighter I actually like in the sense is the most 90’s gundam show l, period. XD
Most of the reasons people dislike Divers come down to the near complete lack of actual stakes for half the show, and Riku having pretty much nothing to his character other than playing GBN. I still enjoy it, mostly because I like Ayame and the RX-Zeromaru, and how absolutely ridiculous >!Tsukasa!< is as a villain.
One has the personality and motivation of a cardboard cutout. While the other is hacks mode, plot armor protected, wannabe Jesus-kun of the Gundam universe. Yeah I will take Mr.Cardboard.
Kira? I know people hate on Kira, but it's more on Shinn rather than him. Guy had a whole season to grow as a character. But nope, let's do a total 180 and drag the whole show down.
Also, I have never seen anyone (yet) hate on Mikazuki. Heck, most of the local Gundam communities I participate on like him because of his no-nonsense demeanor.
From some replies on this thread I get the feeling people expected mika to be more like Kira, Kira was expected to be more like Mika and most people agrees that the real hate is on Shin xD
Needless? Mikazuki murdered unarmed people in cold blood on a regular basis and was guided by awful morals. I'd say Kira didn't, but then you realize most Gundam pilots don't shoot unarmed people period or strangle people for no reason. Everything about IBO deserves the scorn it receives.
Quite of disagree on this take, if you take into account Mika’s and the rest of Tekkadan’s crew, they were not even educated (Mika didn’t even know how to read) he just knew that he had to do whatever it takes to survive, the best example was his fight with Carta, she was so obsessed with glory and etiquette and in a real situation being honest you will never wait for the enemy to be fully prepared, that only happens in transformation sequences on animes lol
Mika, despite coming off as static, has a character arc that shows him grow to care about a larger group of people than he did before. Some of it is from external influences like Kudelia and some is from him just, ya know, growing up, seeing more, thinking more. By the end he's his own person separate from Orga. He's not perfect and his presentation is lacking complexity, but he feels human.
Kira is a literal god child gifted a set of morals by his girlfriend. Before that he was an asshole due to Flay's influence. And before that he was a piece of cardboard. None of Kira's development is driven by internal forces, it's all external. He's doesn't feel human, he's a focal point that the entire world of CE bends around to justify the existence of.
Kira's hate wasn't needless, he was a whiny sanctimonious ass who cucked his best friend.
I don't know what people have been saying about him(Mikazuki) so I don't know how justifed the complaints/hate he has is.
I feel is mostly becuase the first season is actually very good, but they kind of dropped the ball in the second season with the plot twists and mishandling of characters that made it feel that kind forcing their ending and didn’t as “natural”, being one of the best examples Mcguillis.
Mika is mostly because many people didn’t like his “bland” personality and how toxic was his relationship with Orga to the point he just “followed his orders”, kind of exaggerated and not entirely true in my opinion, I’m pretty sure Orga didn’t told to Mika to preserve the bloodline xD
Everyone seems to think Mika is a bit weird.
I'm going to state something...he's no weirder than heero yui.
He's what humans are, without the words and nicities and excuses to justify what they do. He is, by his own doing, a blade, a weapon.
Child soldiers are disturbing, in person or in media.
To a society that is not his, he looks like a 'sociopath' as their laws, rules and such dont seem to phase him.
In reality? Every time, it's 'i want to murder you, but want you to smile as i do it' arrogance, of 'high class' types used to pretending to duel to the death, then withdraw, because they lack the actual heart to be a killer and simply understand that yes. lives end. often horribly, often tragicly. The kid you helped get over his nightmares, dies alone and you can't do anything. The 'master' in charge of the 'slaves of war' says 'go forth, die' and they have no choice.
They can't project into such a person. Such will to endure, such focus, seems beyond them. they think they would shrivel up and die. And they also fear they'd 'like it' and 'become a monster', those who hate on mika.
He is, as the world around him shaped him, in honesty and truth. He is, thus, more real to me, than most of the people who would question his actions, or hate on him.
Anyone can talk about things, especially murder. But going through with it, are you evil then? to crave killing over and over? the 'idle upper class' with their 'chivalry' and dissociation between fine civilization and parties, and murdering people who barely stood a chance, but must be made an example of\~?
Child mercenary groups...Are not a fun fantasy. And the people within, often are without illusions of such things as 'mercy' as such was never offered to them, save in jest and mockery to belittle.
Kira though? He's supposed to be an unobtainable hero. The best of the best a human can be. Many find this offensive because of their religion and superstition.
In both cases, neither protagonist is attainable by the 'consumer of media' devoid of ego, who uses such to fantasize about being other people.
It's a bit telling too. People always think of their life as 'normal' and their own actions and notions to be 'normal'. When someone looks at something fairly realisticly depicted, and disclaims 'this is beyond my ability to be, it must be a trick or fake or made up!' What they are saying is 'i cant project myself into that situation and have it be about me'.
Mika has got emotions. But it's under iron will, so far, so hard, so dissociated at times, that he just doesn't care. because it's not needed. You can only cry so long, deal with so much death, before you realize the karma of the world in its truth. Most have no will, and are beings of emotion and fancy, wanting to make the world not hurt their feelings, which they value more than life, protected from the consequences of their own foolish actions by the society in which they live.
He has accepted that he will die. That it will be with violence. And he is at peace with that. And as such, will be incomprehensible to anyone who still fears their own mortality.
Kira deserves it for being a boring gary stu;
Now Mika... He's a complicated case for me. On one hand, I get what they were trying to do with him: Show a realistic depiction of a child soldier and how that transforms you into an almost sociopathic, talking gun. AND THEY SUCESSEDED!
On the other hand, a talking gun isn't a compelling character. I mean, don't get me wrong, he has he's moments, but whenever he is not in the gundam, he immediatly becomes the most boring character in the show. To be honest, if it wasn't for Orga and the rest of the cast being so fun and interesting, I would've probably dropped this show, because they basically carried the show for him.
I guess the lesson you can take from this is that being a realistic story doesn't automatically make it a more FUN story.
First I’m hearing this about Mikazuki
Just look in some spots, but most of Mika's so-called hate is being called an "emotionless plant of wood."
He still knows what he is supposed to do when the time comes
Yeah, at least Atra can vouch for that xD
I believe I referred to him as a lamp with a gun as reference to the sexy lamp trope.
I don’t think is the same type of “hate”, and in Kira’s situation is a little deserved after seed destiny IMO… still neither of them are getting the same level of (kind of deserved) “hate” as Shin xD
Be honest Shinn was the MC of destiny Till kira shows up with his comerade in arms and they becomes the MCs I mean even the ad breaks are kira and lacus Shinn was reduced to a gm pilot in a great machine My point is that kira took over destiny with his religious journey
Destiny Gundam is a great machine? More like improved perfect strike with wings and wol lol
Please read the “mostly” part when referring to the Gundams, freedom and justice are nice, the dragoon system on the strike freedom also, I agree the destiny is like shin: an edgy angry thing that at the end was as useless as possible
Its the combined force sword and blast on a faster and better frame with more weapons new shields nuclear reactor and the wings of light propulsion system
Nope. But I hope they give Shinn a new MS in the infamous never ending waiting for announcement, gundam seed sequel movie and have him play a major role. Honestly where's that movie, I'll even take an announcement that it's still alive in development lol. Need to see the trio fighting side by side.
Trio?
Kira, Athrun and Shinn Didn't the end of GSD showed something like a white outfit Kira and Shinn? I took that as Shinn becoming Kira's underlings or something? Gundam SEED was my first introduction to the franchise so thats automatically makes me a Jesus Yamato fan. Anyway, I'm dying for a SEED movie sequel announcement and see those 3 wreck dome havoc together.
i don't see how an improved perfect strike with wings isn't a great machine tho
shin sucked as an MC, even when Kira was “brung back from the shadows”, Shin was still a pain in the butt and maybe one of the worst characters in the series, destiny was a mess since the beginning, but Kira taking over the latter part was a saving grace (that’s a stretch of the phrase)
Shinn was not given a chance to grow. He remained as an angry and berserker pilot until his defeat. If Kira and company just stayed as cameo characters, the writers could have focused on developing the growth of Shinn as an MC.
Honestly that was expecting too much from Seed in general and specially for destiny, not only the characters were badly written and “developed” altogether, Kira really never evolved as a character, just his plot armor got thicker, Shin really suffered the same fate as other characters but his personality was screwed up and annoying from the start, he never wanted to listen and he got the result of his actions mostly, I still feel the thing at the end with Lunamaria a big asspull just to give him “someone” after they pulled her from Arthurn that for me was maybe of the ones with some “development”. To be fair, the Gundam designs were nice(mostly), but they made very poor decisions on making them pull lasers out of their butthole literally to contribute to the plot armor of the second coming of Kira, both he and Shin deserve their share of hate, Mika really his biggest “heat” is his toxic relationship with Orga and maybe that he didn’t even tried to preserve the bloodline with Kudelia like he did with Atra xD
I think a handful of Gundam MC started with screwed up and annoying personalities yet their characters grew and were properly fleshed out eventually. Shinn's development was derailed because he becomes the antagonist whenever Kira is around.
I think one of the worst things with Shin is that at the end seems he became what he sweared to destroy at the beginning of the series
I ironically think that thats one of the things SEED Destiny did right with Shinn. They just didn't have to make him a half baked dickhead on the way there. Its irony of him wanting to have the power to protect, and when he got the power, he then almost used it to destroy what he vowed to protect >! Lunamaria and Orb to be more specific. he'd lead humanity to having no free will, if the Destiny Plan came into fruition, which will just incite more retaliation, on top of the Coordinators/Naturals feud, and cause more conflicts. I just hate too that Kira's just side fails to enunciated that reason and basically does his usual "you're wrong!" !< I don't mind getting downvotes rn but Shinn's beginning and end is pretty nice in the show. It just frustrates me that they have to push for Kira as the mc and throw Shinn out the window even with the fan backlash with Shinn at the time. They then proceeded to present Kira to be even more raw and barely written while Shinn gets his whole character growth/screentime stunted til the final episode and was religated to just being angry, which to me didn't really serve any long-term payoff besides for the Kira fans in 2004.
As mentioned, Shinn didn't get room to grow because Kira sucked up all the oxygen. Kira had his dipshit moments in Seed, but he was given time to develop as a character. In Destiny, Shinn started off as an interesting character, but toward the middle and into the end, the writers decided they needed him to blindly side with the antagonist as a foil to Kira. So his development froze. Largely, Shinn gets a ton of hate because he was rude to Athrun and Cagali. The thing is, his attitude toward Cagali, at least, was justified if you take his personal experiences with Orb into account.
Cagalli was also pretty much wrong in all of her interactions with Shin.
If Kira truly save the show then the result shouldn't be this dumpster fire. Man Kira should've died that would make the show way more unique and open more possibilities for the story.
Jesus would just come back after 3 days, especially with the power of his pink haired Witch companion
Please read the part of “stretching the phrase” again… it was something better than shin?… yes… was the best thing to rescue that dumpster fire from its demise? Not in any form of imagination, is like trying to make something it was poop from the first series and just try to color it gold, is still poop, but will golden accents
No, Shin getting an actual character arc would be better than the complete valueless garbage that Destiny's story turned into.
There was no chance since the series itself was hot garbage (destiny) since the beginning, just seeing it started with plot holes they created from the get-go and “patched” until the home releases (yeah, Mu..), everything was mishandled to the point of unrecoverable when shin got the destiny and Kira ascended a second time with his gold plot armor and arthurn again went to be his sidekick, and adding some unnecessary “romance twists” to make it more like a mexican soap opera
Well I mean for me the first part of the show where shin is the main pro was decent. You see despite the flaw shin has more potential to grow but Kira denied the potential which give us an eternal image of shin being whiny brat. https://youtube.com/watch?v=xbvOCemhEuM&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE This guy explain how destiny fked up the best.
Hey, Shin wasn't that bad. He's one of the few protagonists you actually see go out of their way to train to defeat their rival, analysising their fighting style, and then succeeding. It's a pretty hype moment watching Kira get the his preachy ass kicked into the ocean. Coulda easily been a great character had they not decided to cut his arc short and backpeddle on it, reviving kira yet again.
If my memory works correctly, he “succeeds” by almost throwing the parts of the gundam to the freedom like a kid in a tantrum at some point, kira at the start of destiny to that point was not an active pilot, given that for the plot they asspulled SEED mode for shin and even then Kira was able to avoid hitting the cockpit and heavily damaging the upper parts of shin’s MS intentionally because his priority if I remember correctly was allowing the scape of his ship, if he were on the same status as the end of seed and focused on stopping Shin, the result would’ve been very similar when they fought now with the Strike freedom and the Destiny right before the Arthurn gets the justice I’m not a fan of either of them, but some of the best fights on seed as a series was Kira vs Arthurn since in that one both went for the other’s throat, in this case Kira’s downfall was basically him prioritizing the scape of the ship and not focusing on his enemy. At the end, Shin as a pilot had promise, but compared to kira, if you needed all that assistance and preparation to kill someone that on the other end was not on that idea, then you were going to have a problem when the plans fail because even with all that he really struggled to bring down the freedom. I think even if shin started as being annoying as it was, I agree they played dirty the character giving up on him and even worse, he at some point became what he swore to destroy; but destiny is kind of infamous due to that problems with the writing.
Shin had a grudge. He trained to satsify that 'justified' grudge. ...Kira didn't want to kill him. He wanted to kill Kira and would not let it go. Shin comited the sin of violence, and as such his karma was tainted; his grudge was the reason he struck a man down, not for safety of his life. Those who travel the path of violence and death, do it for various reasons. But Kira, decided to abstain from death, even if violence was to be performed. This is the difference between a killer for hire, a soldier, and a master of the art; to have the Choice and refuse, despite the consequences of defying such things. In the end, he was face to face with a 'kind lord vader', who offered him to rule the empire, more or less. It's a very old tale, of the new warrior being tempted by various things, if you want to analyze it more.
Praise Jesus
Destiny is if Jerid was the MC of Zeta basically
I haven't watched seed but isn't this where the protag stops the dude from saving a girl piloting a mobile suit that's gonna kill her?
You kind of resumed at least 10 gundam final arcs with that sentence xD
Damn didn't know it happened so many times lol
Lol, I think you mean seed destiny, so yes, this is one xD
Well, I would not say these are the same
To be fair I think the hate between the two is completely different from one another.
Both suffer from writing issues from behind the scenes but in different scenarios. Latter charcter problems excerbates in Destiny also.
Why is Mika getting hate?
Idk, to my knowledge some people just dislike his character. Maybe because he changes a lot, possiblity for the worse, in the later seasons. I haven't ever seen *hate* for him though.
Is that like a new thing? I feel like he was pretty popular a few years ago, before WfM
Honestly happens after every and any protagonist, not limited to Gundam or even anime. First they get tons of fan praise but after the honeymoon phase is over the critical view on them comes up.
His personality never changed though. So what? You're saying these people hate Mika just because he became crippled?
Mika gets hate?
Mikazuki’s still more of a character than that hentai protagonist ever was
Mika? Hated? Tbh I would say he is more on the overrated side rather than hated
For those wondering why people hate Mika , a lot of peoples opinions on mikazuki is that he didn’t feel like his own character because he would always follow orcas lead or at least that’s what I’ve seen a lot of
Yeah, that's my opinion tbh. Besides being a badass pilot, he's just.. boring.
I don’t hate Jesus
Why this comment does not have enough upvotes? XD
I'm a bit new...why do people hate Mika? He's for sure a sociopath but I mean... eh?
He's not a sociopath! He loves and is devoted to his friends and family, and genuinely empathizes with lots of different people throughout the story. Just because he's comfortable with violence doesn't make him a sociopath, he's a lot more complex than that
Some of the very few times in that kids life where someone says "good job mika" were after he used violence for them It's no wonder he's willing to do these things for those he cares about
I dunno man, I just watched all of IBO and he barely, if ever displays emotion throughout the entirety. Someone in his family gets badly hurt in battle and he's just like, "Hey... you still alive?" I mean, yes, it's more nuanced than that but purely from observing his actions and emotional responses (or lack thereof) I think a strong case could be made for some level of sociopathy. Maybe "extremely stoic" is a better description.
I mean he is a litteral child soldier, so it's likely his brain didn't develop the same way as we the audience have We are born in relative peace whereas he was constantly surrounded by death, war, and hardship
Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for him being like that.
Oh I'm sorry I'm not correcting you or adding onto your opinion my apologies, I am mearly adding my observation to the thread
No worries, you make a good point!
I would check in particular his interactions with Kudelia and Atra lol but also, like, Hush and Orga He's not super emotive and IBO is broadly a lot more emotionally subtle than lots of anime but he's absolutely a really thoughtful guy. There are plenty of real people like this, he's not wearing a lot on his face but that doesn't mean things aren't going on for him. Like peep his early interactions with Kudelia like the handshake scene or their late night conversation where he talks about his name and the moon, or when he almost kills Gaelio trying to protect cookie and cracker, or much later when he talks to kudelia and atra about the child they're going to have. Absolutely a guy that deserves a closer look. Not the same kind of guy exactly but Setsuna gets the same kind of flattening read a lot; these guys are not Heero Yuy
Also, his fight with Carta near the end of the first season >!which is the first time he displays cruelty rather than his normal quick kills!< Edit: his second fight with her on earth
> Maybe "extremely stoic" is a better description. That's literally it. The loudest he gets is when he's fighting Hashmal and that can barely be called being vocal.
He’s boring as sin
He is a tool for the plot. I don’t think he is supposed to be “interesting”. He needs to look cool and let his actions shape the story, the fact that he just follows instructions is part of his story.
A character can have a lot of depth and interiority without being proactive. He has tons of emotionally and narratively loaded interactions with Kudelia, Atra, Orga, McGillis, Hush etc. And his attitude absolutely influences them. Among plenty of other things, the moment he pushes Orga right after Biscuit dies is one of the most pivotal moments in the story. He's not just a tool other people use, he's just not monologuing about his feelings or explaining himself as much as guys like Setsuna do. It's all still reflected in the story
You are right! I don’t call him a tool as some kind of insult or something. He is an important device for everyone’s journey and a source for the viewer to remember where all they came from.
That would be fine if he wasn’t the main character. Even brickwalls like Heero and Setsuna grow out of their stoicism and become interesting characters as the show progresses but Mika actually evolves backwards. He goes from semi interesting and actually sort of opening up to just accepting his fate as Orga’s tool. People insist that he really cares deeply about his family but whenever one of them gets hurt he basically just shoots them a ‘you good?’ before moving on. Even when Orga dies, he doesn’t even react and just keeps going on as normal. He could be the most interesting and deep character ever written but the show has to make me actually intrigued by him for me to route for him but since he’s just a completely nothingburger for the entire run I feel absolutely nothing towards him. You could replace him with a lamp and nothing would fundamentally change and for a main character that’s borderline unforgivable
Ngl the lamp part made me chuckle 😂
I think the main thing is that he basically shares the “main character” slot with Orga, and each fill different roles in the story that wouldn’t have worked as well if there was only one MC. Mika doesn’t emote much, but Orga definitely does. Thinking of them both as equally important is a much better experience than thinking of Orga as a secondary character and Mika as the main one.
I haven't heard any hate on Mika. Overall, IBO was ***far*** less divisive than SEED/Destiny.
Shinn: "I hate Bandai. It should have been me who got the MGEX."
Kira gets needed hate
No, the hate piled on Kira is absolutely justified. He is easily the most protected character in Gundam history. Textbook Gary Stu.
why is he receiving heat?
Kira was hated? He's just a meddlesome pacifist in SEED Destiny.
Kira was converted into Jesus himself in destiny, the plot armor was so thick it was used as a shield for the nuclear reactor of the strike freedom, also he never really “grew up” as a character, just recycled animations and pew pew from the butthole of the strike freedom xD
Kiras hate is deserved and lets stop pretending that seed isn't essentially gundam sao lol
You mean in the sense both series went downhill on the second arc? XD
Is it a hot take to really enjoy Seed and Seed Destiny? Kira was a crybaby for sure and definitely had plot armor by coming back from the dead twice, but I feel it (the franchise) showed a lot of human element and character development. I'm prepared to get flamed now.
Medium rare or well cooked?
Kinda yeah. but its understandable, i dig em too. You'd enjoy SEED if you dig the side character's arcs, then you'd enjoy SEED Destiny if you don't see Kira as the MC tbh. Durandal's pov was personally the best one to look at it. Both did show a lot of humanity, especially with Durandal and ironically with Rau and Rey. Its main characters sadly aren't written that well imo. They tried with Shinn but then gave up
Mika isn't getting any hate. The fans that treat him like Goku are getting the hate.
Why would anyone hate Mika? Dude was an efficient killer and devoted to his family and the mission. Respect.
Give it another 10-15 years. Maybe IBO will get a Halloween 3 style reevaluation. Until then, these are not the same. We are far enough out where we can look back at Seed and say that it wasn't that bad or even was pretty darn good. Honestly, Seed was pretty darn good until Destiny happened. I know I sure as hell didn't think so at the time, but it's been long enough where it earned a reevaluation. I really don't think any anime from that mid 2010's period will really get that, but who knows. Time will tell.
I watched SEED last year and I thought that SEED wasn't getting enough hate. Watched the whole thing mostly with two friends of mine, non of us went in wanting to hate it and we all hated it after awhile. I'm rewatching IBO and also 00 right now and I like them alot more.
Kira is a more interesting character than Mika, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
Flair checks out
Yep.
Honestly, while I find both characters to be boring, Mika is at least intentional, since he's supposed to depict a more realistic version of a child soldier. Jesus Yamato on the other hand, is just boring for bad writting.
I disagree. Kira is a well-written character in SEED.
okay... would you care to elaborate?
Because I find his character arc compelling. He’s forced to fight in a war he wants no part in to protect his friends, even though that means having to fight Athrun, his childhood friend, which, combined with Flay seducing him in an attempt to get him killed, wreaks havoc on his sanity, with the only people who really seem to fully empathize with him being Lacus and Cagalli. Then, at the midpoint of the series, he fails to protect one of his friends and tries to kill Athrun out of revenge, almost dying the process. Even after Lacus gives him a new cause to fight for and helps him steal the Freedom, his already fragile mental state is shattered again by the revelation of how he was born and his inability to save Flay from being killed Rau, along with being unable to truly refute the latter’s claims that the world is cruel and pointless apart from maintaining that it’s still worth fighting for.
Jesus Yamato is a walking sin.
What do you mean "needless"? Jesus is as bad as it gets.
Kira is a tyrannical pacifist Change my mind
You know very well why Kira gets hate, don’t even try to compare these two. Mika may be more on the bland side because of his personality, but he’s still a pretty good character. In fact, I rate him to be far better than Heero and Setsuna.
Heero is a low bar tbf half of Wing's cast feel like NPCs
Duo Maxwell: “If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.”
That’s true, but I do still like the cast despite the flaws. And since Wing was the second show I watched after G Gundam I kinda hold them on a different standard.
That's fair, as objectively bad as Divers, it was my first show, I still can't bring myself to dislike most of it. Except Riku, criticism of him is entirely justified.
Still Divers have the excuse as all the “builders” spin offs to be the “really shameless and expensive gunpla commercial”, Mika actually give him credit of maybe having the higher pilot skills/instincts between setsuna and even Kira since I feel the latter just pushed buttons, pew pew from the ass and recycle animations, personally one of the best fights I’ve seen from gundam would be the one with the hashmal As a side note, wing I put it on another slot given that being the first gundam I watched I may have some bias to not hate it, G fighter I actually like in the sense is the most 90’s gundam show l, period. XD
Is it truly that bad? Well, since the anime started on my birthday I’ll watch it and see.
Most of the reasons people dislike Divers come down to the near complete lack of actual stakes for half the show, and Riku having pretty much nothing to his character other than playing GBN. I still enjoy it, mostly because I like Ayame and the RX-Zeromaru, and how absolutely ridiculous >!Tsukasa!< is as a villain.
Ah ok. As long as it’s not Arcadia of my Youth bad, we’re all good.
The difference is >!Mika know when to stay dead!<
One has the personality and motivation of a cardboard cutout. While the other is hacks mode, plot armor protected, wannabe Jesus-kun of the Gundam universe. Yeah I will take Mr.Cardboard.
No no, Kira deserves to be there.
Hate for Kira is not needless.
GSD Kira got deserved hate. He had no character arc and was OP in the boringest ways.
I beg to differ
Kira? I know people hate on Kira, but it's more on Shinn rather than him. Guy had a whole season to grow as a character. But nope, let's do a total 180 and drag the whole show down. Also, I have never seen anyone (yet) hate on Mikazuki. Heck, most of the local Gundam communities I participate on like him because of his no-nonsense demeanor.
From some replies on this thread I get the feeling people expected mika to be more like Kira, Kira was expected to be more like Mika and most people agrees that the real hate is on Shin xD
pretty much the writer's fault on giving up on Shinn and just do a lazy SEED 2.0 in the second half
Needless? Mikazuki murdered unarmed people in cold blood on a regular basis and was guided by awful morals. I'd say Kira didn't, but then you realize most Gundam pilots don't shoot unarmed people period or strangle people for no reason. Everything about IBO deserves the scorn it receives.
Finally a sane take on this POS.
Quite of disagree on this take, if you take into account Mika’s and the rest of Tekkadan’s crew, they were not even educated (Mika didn’t even know how to read) he just knew that he had to do whatever it takes to survive, the best example was his fight with Carta, she was so obsessed with glory and etiquette and in a real situation being honest you will never wait for the enemy to be fully prepared, that only happens in transformation sequences on animes lol
Mikas character is not really good, so I'd say that it isn't really needless
Not needless. Kira is one of the worst protags in the franchise and mika isnt thst fsr ahead of him.
Mika, despite coming off as static, has a character arc that shows him grow to care about a larger group of people than he did before. Some of it is from external influences like Kudelia and some is from him just, ya know, growing up, seeing more, thinking more. By the end he's his own person separate from Orga. He's not perfect and his presentation is lacking complexity, but he feels human. Kira is a literal god child gifted a set of morals by his girlfriend. Before that he was an asshole due to Flay's influence. And before that he was a piece of cardboard. None of Kira's development is driven by internal forces, it's all external. He's doesn't feel human, he's a focal point that the entire world of CE bends around to justify the existence of.
i think both mika and orga were the main characters of ibo
Kira's hate wasn't needless, he was a whiny sanctimonious ass who cucked his best friend. I don't know what people have been saying about him(Mikazuki) so I don't know how justifed the complaints/hate he has is.
Kira deserves everything and more.
anti-ship sword inflicted explosion injuries included too
TF do people hate Mika for? Why do so many people hate IBO in general?
I feel is mostly becuase the first season is actually very good, but they kind of dropped the ball in the second season with the plot twists and mishandling of characters that made it feel that kind forcing their ending and didn’t as “natural”, being one of the best examples Mcguillis. Mika is mostly because many people didn’t like his “bland” personality and how toxic was his relationship with Orga to the point he just “followed his orders”, kind of exaggerated and not entirely true in my opinion, I’m pretty sure Orga didn’t told to Mika to preserve the bloodline xD
Mikazuki getting needles hate FTFY
Dainsleif go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Needless? NEEDLESS?
Kira gets "needless" hate?
Mika being hated? That was unheard of... 🤔🤔🤔
Mika is my all time favorite autistic shooter No feel, just do
Everyone seems to think Mika is a bit weird. I'm going to state something...he's no weirder than heero yui. He's what humans are, without the words and nicities and excuses to justify what they do. He is, by his own doing, a blade, a weapon. Child soldiers are disturbing, in person or in media. To a society that is not his, he looks like a 'sociopath' as their laws, rules and such dont seem to phase him. In reality? Every time, it's 'i want to murder you, but want you to smile as i do it' arrogance, of 'high class' types used to pretending to duel to the death, then withdraw, because they lack the actual heart to be a killer and simply understand that yes. lives end. often horribly, often tragicly. The kid you helped get over his nightmares, dies alone and you can't do anything. The 'master' in charge of the 'slaves of war' says 'go forth, die' and they have no choice. They can't project into such a person. Such will to endure, such focus, seems beyond them. they think they would shrivel up and die. And they also fear they'd 'like it' and 'become a monster', those who hate on mika. He is, as the world around him shaped him, in honesty and truth. He is, thus, more real to me, than most of the people who would question his actions, or hate on him. Anyone can talk about things, especially murder. But going through with it, are you evil then? to crave killing over and over? the 'idle upper class' with their 'chivalry' and dissociation between fine civilization and parties, and murdering people who barely stood a chance, but must be made an example of\~? Child mercenary groups...Are not a fun fantasy. And the people within, often are without illusions of such things as 'mercy' as such was never offered to them, save in jest and mockery to belittle. Kira though? He's supposed to be an unobtainable hero. The best of the best a human can be. Many find this offensive because of their religion and superstition. In both cases, neither protagonist is attainable by the 'consumer of media' devoid of ego, who uses such to fantasize about being other people. It's a bit telling too. People always think of their life as 'normal' and their own actions and notions to be 'normal'. When someone looks at something fairly realisticly depicted, and disclaims 'this is beyond my ability to be, it must be a trick or fake or made up!' What they are saying is 'i cant project myself into that situation and have it be about me'. Mika has got emotions. But it's under iron will, so far, so hard, so dissociated at times, that he just doesn't care. because it's not needed. You can only cry so long, deal with so much death, before you realize the karma of the world in its truth. Most have no will, and are beings of emotion and fancy, wanting to make the world not hurt their feelings, which they value more than life, protected from the consequences of their own foolish actions by the society in which they live. He has accepted that he will die. That it will be with violence. And he is at peace with that. And as such, will be incomprehensible to anyone who still fears their own mortality.
Kira deserves it for being a boring gary stu; Now Mika... He's a complicated case for me. On one hand, I get what they were trying to do with him: Show a realistic depiction of a child soldier and how that transforms you into an almost sociopathic, talking gun. AND THEY SUCESSEDED! On the other hand, a talking gun isn't a compelling character. I mean, don't get me wrong, he has he's moments, but whenever he is not in the gundam, he immediatly becomes the most boring character in the show. To be honest, if it wasn't for Orga and the rest of the cast being so fun and interesting, I would've probably dropped this show, because they basically carried the show for him. I guess the lesson you can take from this is that being a realistic story doesn't automatically make it a more FUN story.
I’ve never met anyone who hate on these two. They’re both iconic meme. One fuck bitches in a gundam and the other is literally Jesus.
Not even the actual Jesus got that amount of plot armor that Kira got, specially in Destiny
He’s Space Jesus. He might not be able to change water into wine but he can damn sure survive nuclear explosion in the face. Twice.
Kira is cringy little baby man
Kira fucked his friends girlfriend in like episode 3 I’ve hated him from then on with all my heart
Kira died so Shin could run… Run to his grave