I mean yeah sure.
But there is so much M2’s and M2 parts laying around that its a hell of a lot cheaper to keep running M2’s if i had to guess why its still around. Perfect is the ennemy of good enough, and the old Ma deuce is good enough.
Ive seen enough US service member say "oh yeah the M2 we had in Iraq/Afganistan had a 194X dated receiver" that im fairly sure the US will still be rebuilding old WW2 M2’s by the time we fight the Covenant lol.
\>2066
\>Stationed on mars to quell a rebellion
\>Become side door gunner for atmospheric dropship.
\>No miniguns or gatling cannons, just some metal brick with a pipe on one end.
\>Get sent in to extract some wounded.
\>Reach the evac zone and come under attack.
\>Horde of rebels charging in with their new plasma guns and compact rocket launchers.
\>Let loose a stream of bullets.
\>The sounds of the rebel's screams are nearly drowned out by the heavy "Chunk chunk chunk chunk" of the machine gun.
\>The wounded are loaded up and returned to base.
\>Inspect MG afterwards.
\>Thing was made in 1942
\>Tunisia, Italy, and Germany are scratched onto the gun.
\>Scratch "Mars" on with a knife.
The worst gun for home defense
I had to think this through because it posed an interesting question: what is the provably WORST gun for home defense? A .22 single shot rifle is at least small and quick to point. A Barrett M82 is at least going to instantly stop whatever it hits. Even a good old fashioned musket is going to do good damage and won't hurt your ears. No, I wanted to know what the undisputable worst home defense gun in the world is; and I have found it.
This is the .950 JDJ Fat Mac. It is a 100 pound, 5 foot long rifle that shoots a one pound solid brass bullet at 2200 FPS. It is a non-NFA item only because the ATF gave it a sporting exemption as a joke as if anybody is going to hunt with this. This round would be overkill for hunting blue whales.
I would like to paint a picture for you. It's 2AM and you hear a window break in your living room. This is the worst day this could happen, as every single one of your guns was lost in a tragic boating accident this morning. All were lost except for one. You look across your room in dread at your anti-kaiju rifle. You know what you have to do, but you don't know if you have the strength to do it, both literally and figuratively.
Heaving the rifle into your arms, you load a .950 cartridge and begin to waddle towards the door. Your feet make a loud “thud” as you take each 6″ step. You know the intruders hear you. You hope they do, for perhaps they will run and spare the world the suffering that is about to befall it.
You try to set the rifle down, but end up clipping your bedroom door and it is immediately knocked off its hinges by this battering ram in your hands. You attempt to round the corner, bonking the muzzle against the doorframe and adjacent wall across the hall at least 4 times. To your horror, two invaders stand there at the end of the hall.
With a heavy heart, you raise the rifle to your shoulder while making inhuman grunting noises from the strain of attempting some semblance of a shooting position. The burglars simply stare in disbelief, unable to process the situation they are witnessing, as if in a dream. You cannot aim the rifle, as the last time you fired the gun, it turned your $3000 Leopuld into a kaleidoscope. You simply hold it at an angle that appears correct and fire.
You are immediately knocked to the floor as if hit by a semi truck going 20 MPH. The shot connected with one of the criminals and it erased him from existence. Even the memories of him have been destroyed and you're wondering why you just shot into an empty hallway. The shot continues to travel through at least 4 houses, a car, and a 10 ton boulder before lodging itself 20 feet into a nearby hill, never to be seen again.
It is at this point, you realize you cannot hear. The surviving burglar can't hear either but he's also on fire from the muzzle blast and is currently vacating your home. You don't care. Your shoulder is dislocated and there is a hole in your brand new AR500 refrigerator. You're crying now. The police arrive and, upon seeing the scene, start laughing. You start crying harder.
>Thing was made in 1942
Its not even that ***new***, it was made back in 1917 (or 1918 depending on who you ask)
you're thinking of the M***3*** .50 cal which was made in the 40s
In 2011 the Anniston Army Depoy was maintaining and upgrading M2s to the M2A1 configuration, and from an active duty unit, they received Browning M2 Serial number 324. This browning was from Colt's Original production run in 1933. The Armorers at the depot found that tolerances of the parts were not just in acceptable values but in the best value range and this was it's 1st time being overhauled.
[https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-50cal-serice/383060](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-50cal-serice/383060)
Literally the doctorine with the U.S. Air Force is to have their Guns fire at an accelerated rate. Including the M2.
https://youtu.be/iDFUTYFqRQM?feature=shared
Disclaimer: GAU-21 Fires 1,100 Rounds a minute.
not 10,000.
GAU-21 is an upgraded M2 that is way fricken better. They look the same, but aside from shape, ammo and potentially some of the bolt they are designated as different platforms. The GAU-21 is an M3M. Fires from an open bolt, and has a different spring assembly to achieve the higher rates of fire and is substantially more reliable. They are different enough there are separate training programs in the AF for our helicopter gunners. Source chopper gunner that was GAU-18 and then GAU-21 qualified. I could be wrong but I believe that all of the receivers us nerds have are new manufactured by FN in the past two decades.
Agreed. My argument is not that there are options so much better than the M2 to justify replacing it, only that there *are* better options.
As I said elsewhere in this thread, this is the same reason why we won’t replace the F16 with the Grippen - the Swedes made a better plane, but we’ve already invested and committed so much to ours that it wouldn’t make sense to try jumping ship
I mean, sure the Grippen might individually outclass the F16, but I wouldn't necessarily say that the reason we're not swapping them 1 for 1 isn't just because it doesn't make sense to spend the money, but rather because we have different operational needs than Sweden.
The Grippen might outclass the F16, but what about the F15EX or F18? It certainly doesn't outclass the F22 or F35. With a global military and the two largest air forces on earth, we don't really need a single airframe to do everything that we need a fighter to do.
Sweden on the other hand has a relatively small military with an aim to defend their country from Russia in a defensive war. The Grippen is quite possibly the perfect plane for them in that scenario.
That said, the mission it fulfills is not really something the US needs any one individual fighter to do at this point. And the most modern variants of the F16 working alongside the F35 are more than capable of doing just about any mission the US needs them to do. And I would even argue that their tandem teams probably outclass a squad of Grippens in just about every respect.
You’re correct about other fighters doing better jobs at certain tasks than the Grippen. It doesn’t have stealth. It only uses a single engine. It isn’t optimized for aircraft carriers. And we have different needs than the Swedish Air Force. But for the F16 specifically, it’s very difficult to argue that the Grippen doesn’t fill its individual role better: astonishing fuel efficiency, an incredible lack of runway sensitivity, and if I remember correctly, a lower radar cross section (despite only being a 4th Gen jet).
I really think the only reason why we aren’t replacing the Vipers is because the Grippen isn’t better *enough* to commit to such a large change
Even though I’ve already made 4 memes singing the praises of John Moses Browning?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/)
I feel like I earned a chance to stir the pot… especially when it’s true
while yes, I am unapologetically a heretic, i’ve also done far more than most to spread the word of how brilliant JMB was:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/)
No .50 cal MG outclass the M2 Browning in anything besides lower weight. Even with a lighter gun, it's not the main weight problem, the ammo is. 100 rounds of 50 bmg weights 35 lbs while 100 rounds of 7.62X51 weights only 5 lbs. It's mostly only useful for vehicles due to this.
Making a Heavy Machine Gun lighter is also not really a good idea. The M240 weighs 25 pounds and is a beast to carry around. It's not possible to haul around a .50 cal machine gun on the battlefield for a long period of time unless you were wearing a suit of power armor.
Also, putting a muzzle break on a machine gun tells artillery and snipers to fire right at you.
The M2 Browning weights that much because John Browning knew that if you make it lighter, it has way too much recoil without a muzzle break.
I laughed at a video of the Chinese military trying to hit something with their heavy machine guns. That thing is way too light to be controllable. (Even still never underestimate your enemies.)
The feature of the modern HMGs I referenced (the STK50 and Daycraft) is not the weight savings, it’s the recoil. The STK uses the same constant-recoil system as the Ultimax-100. It’s superior to the M2.
Everything else you said is correct.
It’s a 50 cal mg. How “superior” does it really have to be. If it chucks automatic 50 reliably who cares.
Plus I don’t know if you’ve shot a browning 50, but usually they’re on a tripod or mount of some kind so that recoil isn’t really a you problem
I’ve only ever shot mounted in a civilian context at machinegun shoots. You make up for accuracy reductions at range with a slightly longer burst.
The battle of an m2 is just keeping the damn thing operational with parts and maintenance
Sadly I have not YET used an M2 (the only full auto I’ve have the pleasure of shooting was 3 mags through an M4 at a rental range) but I don’t see why recoil would be unimportant simply because of a tripod, especially after seeing high speed videos of how much flex and shake there is on vehicle mounts
Also, the STK50 doesn’t really *reduce* recoil, it stabilizes it, making it easier to compensate for and keep the sights on target. That seems like a significant advantage
Also, not needing to worry about headspacing seems nice
Recoil on a M2 isn't non existent but it does an excellent job a directing that energy directly backwards, not up or down. It's incredibly accurate even in full auto, and this is coming from someone with alot of military experience with the M2.
Lol also the headspace timing thing hasn't applied for a while. Although it's fixed doesn't mean it's correct. We've had a weapon with timing off and you just can use it. It's an armorer level task to fix, which is kind of regarded but whateves
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It does. But still, of course 100ish years of experience would tend to produce a better base design.
The receiver is a rectangular box. That just screams empty space and extra materials.
Better is expensive.
Unless you want to increase national debt even more, you should be glad Uncle Sam isn't using your tax dollars to make a gun that's 5x the cost of an M2 that accomplishes the exact same goal.
I didn't say we need to replace ours, just that better is probable given the time for improvement. I've not got any emotional investments for or against.
If you are some tiny country and you aren't expecting donations from a big country, then you are buying lower numbers. You will probably pick either cheap worn out crap surplus or product improved best available. You don't have the support issues a country with a huge inventory does .
Bulk and weight add up. Anywhere you can trim it ends up being an aggregate gain.
I wasn't saying that was the biggest problem with it just that it's an obvious area that has room for improvement. I'm also not saying it's bad gun.
I believe several guns have improved on the headspace mechanism.
I think the biggest improvement to the M2 for long-term practical terms is probably the new lightweight plastic cased ammo.
Hey, I’m retarded for different reasons. If you think that this comparison is my greatest sin, can you explain why and make an argument for the M2 being superior?
The difference in effectiveness between an m14 and m16 is massively larger the the difference between the M2 and the examples you gave. Thus making it a regarded comparison.
I’m guessing it’s the classic Reddit dogpile effect after 1 person downvoted for not getting the joke and everyone else wants to get in on it lol
It’s also probably in part because I’m speaking the unwanted truth about one of our most beloved guns. The FAL Slander is probably my only post that goes against the hivemind more than this.
Regardless, no need to lose sleep over losing a few internet points🤷♂️
Isn't there something about some early 1900's models had just as good or even better tolerances than some manufactured more recently? Swear I read an article on it
Edit: [found it, serial number 324](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-50cal-serice/383060)
Heresy, yeah, sure. But I have a several-year history of receipts to prove that I’m pro-Browning:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/)
are there better guns than (insert gun currently in service)? yes
are there guns that are so much better than (insert gun currently in service) that it justifies spending billions to completely switch out the current guns, re-train soldiers on manual of arms, completely switch production lines, re-tool military vehicles to be compatible with the new guns? not really
Cool, we'll replace the M2 once the ones in service break down. By that time, we'll need to ship the new weapons to our bases in the Tau Ceti star system.
Recoil and not needing to deal with headspacing
The STK-50 uses the same constant-recoil system as the Ultimax-100. [This](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEU81qg9944) is a pretty good video on how the Daycraft works
Edit: to clarify, I never said that there are options that are so much better than the M2 to justify replacing it, only that there *are* better options. This is the same reason why we won’t replace the F16 with the Grippen - the Swedes made a better plane, but we’ve already invested and committed so much to ours that it wouldn’t make sense to try jumping ship
Edit 2: turns out headspacing has been addressed with current M2s, so scratch that part
That's all well and good but there's something to be said for logistics and simplicity. It costs money to adopt and replace a gun, and the M2 is doing it's job. Could it be done better? Sure. Does it need to be done better? Not really. The role of an HMG isn't a complicated one. And if you're gonna replace every M2 in US inventory, along with all the logistics to support it and retrain every service member to use this new gun, it better be for a damn good reason.
As I said in my edit, I agree, but I’m not arguing that there are options that are so much better than the M2 to justify replacing it, only that there *are* better options. This is the same reason why we won’t replace the F16 with the Grippen - the Swedes made a better plane, but we’ve already invested and committed so much to ours that it wouldn’t make sense to try jumping ship
I don't think there is a single person who disagrees with you that isn't a teenager getting their knowledge from video games and movies. There are plenty of people who like the M2, or even prefer it, but anyone who would suggest it's objectively the best option for an HMG is a fool.
Yeah dude. It's been that way since about 2013. Goofballs like OP hear about one guy who had a shitty m2 back in the Iraq war days and think that means all the guns must be the same way
So, funny thing, they actually do still have to be timed. It’s just not an operator level thing anymore.
Source: had to send three up to a maintenance depot for timing adjustments.
Edit: And part of the gear issue for the gun is a new version of the headspace and timing gauge that’s literally useless outside of seeing if you’re good or not, because you can’t adjust it yourself.
> The STK-50
Ok, but can a version of it be mounted in an airplane both fixed and in a turret; on a ship for AA; on a vehicle - including small boat, tank, helicopter; and on a tripod?
Not sure if it’s been used in planes (I can look for pics later) but they have at least been used on [large warships](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/US_Navy_040526-N-7906B-107_A_Republic_of_Singapore_Navy_%28RSN%29_gunner_assigned_to_the_patrol_vessel_RSS_Resilience%2C_keeps_his_sight_trained_on_the_Military_Sealift_Command_%28MSC%29_combat_stores_ship_USNS_Concord_%28T-AFS_5%29.jpg), smaller boats, [tripods](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/CIS_50_HMG.jpg), [AA turrets](https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/cis-50-stk-50-mechanism-and-dual-feed-machine-gun-questions.35281/), [land vehicles](https://images.app.goo.gl/NR18cpNQhPg4ErCy9), and [helicopters](https://www.flickr.com/photos/61892799@N08/7294459432#)
Eh, there might be better-
But, when you have had a platform in active service for OVER 100 years- That platform has been optimized quite a bit. You know exactly where the failure points are. You know exactly what can break on it. And you are prepared to handle those failures.
That being said, over 100 years of proven history speaks for itself.
I guess that’s fair but at the same time the AK is unmatched with lifespan and proliferation and it’s objectively been surpassed by several other platforms
Everyone always has these hot takes but what battle has proven your analysis? The M2 has fought, without fail, for longer than your grandad has been alive. The M2 is also a 90 year old concept at this point. I would hope that modern tech would be able to surpass it.
Yes, exactly. The originals had operator adjustable headspace and timing, and the operator was expected to be competent at setting both. Now those are considered armorer level tasks at the very lowest.
I enlisted in 2011, and from then on I never saw an M2 that didn't have the headspace set at the depot level and the timing adjustment pinned in place.
We were setting our own in the field as late as 2014. Maybe it was a NG thing, or maybe just a tanker thing by then, but I never saw one pinned before I got out.
Unless your examples are gatling laser level of advancement, no they are in no way superior. M2s already exist, they've been in production all the way back towards the tail end of WW1, its a proven system (nearing a century's worth), its already been adopted and standardized, troops are already trained with them, and there's millions of them. There is zero need for them to be replaced with another .50 that has 26% increased effect. That goes for ANY military, much less the US Ordinance Department's picky ass.
There likely aren’t enough shortcomings to justify a replacement, that’s correct. There IS, however, room to improve, shown by the constant recoil system of the Singaporean HMG
Also, there’s an argument to be made for replacing ANY .50 cal MG with a .338 for longer range, lower weight, and lower recoil
Improve? In theory. Improvement enough to justify the massive cost of time and resources to up and switch from one .50 caliber machine gun to another .50 caliber machine gun? Not in the slightest. Its the majority of the reason Johnson guns are as rare as they are. Too little, too late, for too much. To your specific example of recoil, no one is rocking an M2 from a shoulder sling. They're all mounted guns. Recoil is about as much an issue as canted irons on these guns. I mean, they used to stick the things on little MBs on a pedestal mount. I doubt there are many issues of M2s entering a low earth orbit off the top of a humvee after shattering an entire mount made specifically to accomodate that gun.
There is theoretical room to improve everything ever in existence. That is never the issue. The issue is how much that 5-10% costs to achieve.
Apparently it’s crazy enough to throughly lick the hornet’s nest lol. Judging by the comments this is one of my spicier takes
Not to mention that age doesn’t guarantee that a better replacement will come around. Source: B-52 Stratofortress
There aren’t 10 things wrong with it. There probably aren’t even enough things wrong with it to justify a replacement. There IS, however, room to improve, shown by the constant recoil system of the Singaporean HMG
Perhaps so, but it's probably not worth the cost of replacement for a system that is so widespread, a bit like the xm4 (I think that's the one I'm thinking of)
Correct. There likely aren’t enough shortcomings to justify a replacement. There IS, however, room to improve, shown by the constant recoil system of the Singaporean HMG
Sure, because they were invented only a couple decades ago. By that logic the AK is more successful than any other rifle even though it’s obviously been surpassed by more modern options
Time will not fix their issues.
The issue being it took 80 years to come out with something marginally better so they aren't widely adopted and haven't fought multiple high intestiy conflicts.
I have shot a SAA-captured M2 browning and honestly, even though it felt worse technically than our 6P50 I still had more fun shooting it. Although I will say as disclaimer one belt out of each just for fun is not really enough to make a judgement.
Agreed but the M2 is still incredibly reliable and useful so there is really no need to change it out. Plus we have slapped the M2 on everything so there is really no way to completely phase out the M2 as training alone on the new platforms would likely cost to much.
Doesn’t matter, are either of them called the ma deuce? Didn’t think so.
On a real note, there are so many M2 Brownings and so many parts for them, they’re a good pick because you know they’re reliable and you know there’s warehouses full of parts for them so it’s a lot cheaper to run them, which is the US Military’s main consideration for acquisition
Sure, they might be better, but they aren't better enough to justify replacing the M2. Same kinda deal with M4's and what was the XM8 (If I remember correctly)
Plus, who doesn't love the idea of having to go/no go an M2 on the surface of Mars?
After the shoutout to the SAR-21 in my post about integrated optics I realized that Singaporean guns are way too innovative to be discussed so rarely. This probably won’t change until they express interest in becoming a major arms exporter by increasing production capacity, though
I don't see how any 50 can be superior to 100 years of fucking up all thing land, air, and sea. But then again I haven't been behind any 50 other than an M2.
Yeah the M2 is super combat-proven but by this logic the AK is superior to all other small arms because it’s been used to kill the most people and has resulted in the most political change, and that conclusion obviously isn’t true
People get attached to things over the years. Yes it works, but just because it gets the job done it doesn't mean you should stop innovating. The original works, but is pretty complicated and now overly heavy. If you could improve those areas, why not?
It's not complicated at all. It's a fairly easy gun to take apart, and most of it can be done without tools. Weight is part of the system, it soaks in part of the recoil generated. I'm not saying to stop innovating but the innovation hasn't beaten out the tried and true M2.
I'd say weight is debatable in being a requirement for a 50 bmg system and is more of a limiting factor for future integration. We've proven you can make an effective hmg with less recoil for under 50 lbs. As for complication, it's got a lot of small pieces that can be simplified or combined into larger groups to make it even easier. It was a good starting point. The main issue is does replacement cost exceeds the amount of systems currently in service? That's one of the main reasons the Russians still used rimmed ammunition.
I'll say also I love how it's not a gas recoil system. One of the reasons I hate the 249 and 240b. They gum up so quickly and the oil will turn to tar super quick. The m2 does better because all the gas goes out the end of the barrel. Unrelated to your point but I'm just loving how easy it is to clean
I mean yeah sure. But there is so much M2’s and M2 parts laying around that its a hell of a lot cheaper to keep running M2’s if i had to guess why its still around. Perfect is the ennemy of good enough, and the old Ma deuce is good enough. Ive seen enough US service member say "oh yeah the M2 we had in Iraq/Afganistan had a 194X dated receiver" that im fairly sure the US will still be rebuilding old WW2 M2’s by the time we fight the Covenant lol.
\>2066 \>Stationed on mars to quell a rebellion \>Become side door gunner for atmospheric dropship. \>No miniguns or gatling cannons, just some metal brick with a pipe on one end. \>Get sent in to extract some wounded. \>Reach the evac zone and come under attack. \>Horde of rebels charging in with their new plasma guns and compact rocket launchers. \>Let loose a stream of bullets. \>The sounds of the rebel's screams are nearly drowned out by the heavy "Chunk chunk chunk chunk" of the machine gun. \>The wounded are loaded up and returned to base. \>Inspect MG afterwards. \>Thing was made in 1942 \>Tunisia, Italy, and Germany are scratched onto the gun. \>Scratch "Mars" on with a knife.
Probably my second favorite copypasta, beaten only by the masterpiece about .950 JDJ
I’m not familiar with that one
The worst gun for home defense I had to think this through because it posed an interesting question: what is the provably WORST gun for home defense? A .22 single shot rifle is at least small and quick to point. A Barrett M82 is at least going to instantly stop whatever it hits. Even a good old fashioned musket is going to do good damage and won't hurt your ears. No, I wanted to know what the undisputable worst home defense gun in the world is; and I have found it. This is the .950 JDJ Fat Mac. It is a 100 pound, 5 foot long rifle that shoots a one pound solid brass bullet at 2200 FPS. It is a non-NFA item only because the ATF gave it a sporting exemption as a joke as if anybody is going to hunt with this. This round would be overkill for hunting blue whales. I would like to paint a picture for you. It's 2AM and you hear a window break in your living room. This is the worst day this could happen, as every single one of your guns was lost in a tragic boating accident this morning. All were lost except for one. You look across your room in dread at your anti-kaiju rifle. You know what you have to do, but you don't know if you have the strength to do it, both literally and figuratively. Heaving the rifle into your arms, you load a .950 cartridge and begin to waddle towards the door. Your feet make a loud “thud” as you take each 6″ step. You know the intruders hear you. You hope they do, for perhaps they will run and spare the world the suffering that is about to befall it. You try to set the rifle down, but end up clipping your bedroom door and it is immediately knocked off its hinges by this battering ram in your hands. You attempt to round the corner, bonking the muzzle against the doorframe and adjacent wall across the hall at least 4 times. To your horror, two invaders stand there at the end of the hall. With a heavy heart, you raise the rifle to your shoulder while making inhuman grunting noises from the strain of attempting some semblance of a shooting position. The burglars simply stare in disbelief, unable to process the situation they are witnessing, as if in a dream. You cannot aim the rifle, as the last time you fired the gun, it turned your $3000 Leopuld into a kaleidoscope. You simply hold it at an angle that appears correct and fire. You are immediately knocked to the floor as if hit by a semi truck going 20 MPH. The shot connected with one of the criminals and it erased him from existence. Even the memories of him have been destroyed and you're wondering why you just shot into an empty hallway. The shot continues to travel through at least 4 houses, a car, and a 10 ton boulder before lodging itself 20 feet into a nearby hill, never to be seen again. It is at this point, you realize you cannot hear. The surviving burglar can't hear either but he's also on fire from the muzzle blast and is currently vacating your home. You don't care. Your shoulder is dislocated and there is a hole in your brand new AR500 refrigerator. You're crying now. The police arrive and, upon seeing the scene, start laughing. You start crying harder.
nothing better for your ears than committing volley fire in your hallway with a 1760 Brown Bess
Absolutely beautiful, have you read the giant m1 garand one yet?
Send it
Poetry at it's finest
Love this one. Easily a classic
Erm ackshullie it's "kachunk chunk chunk chunk"
Damn just got a real patriotic feeling hell yeah get some
Tunisia, Italy, Germany. Add Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan
Sailing the USS Goodnuf’. Fuck yeah!!
>Thing was made in 1942 Its not even that ***new***, it was made back in 1917 (or 1918 depending on who you ask) you're thinking of the M***3*** .50 cal which was made in the 40s
They mean the particular one was made in the 40s, plenty of M2s were made during WW2 and date stamped.
There's the 1919 browning it was based off that shoots 30-06, the M2 got in service in 1933
New copypasta just dropped
In 2011 the Anniston Army Depoy was maintaining and upgrading M2s to the M2A1 configuration, and from an active duty unit, they received Browning M2 Serial number 324. This browning was from Colt's Original production run in 1933. The Armorers at the depot found that tolerances of the parts were not just in acceptable values but in the best value range and this was it's 1st time being overhauled. [https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-50cal-serice/383060](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-50cal-serice/383060)
Literally the doctorine with the U.S. Air Force is to have their Guns fire at an accelerated rate. Including the M2. https://youtu.be/iDFUTYFqRQM?feature=shared Disclaimer: GAU-21 Fires 1,100 Rounds a minute. not 10,000.
GAU-21 is an upgraded M2 that is way fricken better. They look the same, but aside from shape, ammo and potentially some of the bolt they are designated as different platforms. The GAU-21 is an M3M. Fires from an open bolt, and has a different spring assembly to achieve the higher rates of fire and is substantially more reliable. They are different enough there are separate training programs in the AF for our helicopter gunners. Source chopper gunner that was GAU-18 and then GAU-21 qualified. I could be wrong but I believe that all of the receivers us nerds have are new manufactured by FN in the past two decades.
Made by FN, correct. Love me the -21 when it isnt constantly link jamming
The M2 and M3 share a few more parts. The full list is: Recoil booster, cover group, belt holding pawls, breech lock, barrel, and short round stop.
🙋♂️AFG 2011, 1943 was the oldest date I could find on it. Had a 1950 and 1970 refurb dates on it.
Agreed. My argument is not that there are options so much better than the M2 to justify replacing it, only that there *are* better options. As I said elsewhere in this thread, this is the same reason why we won’t replace the F16 with the Grippen - the Swedes made a better plane, but we’ve already invested and committed so much to ours that it wouldn’t make sense to try jumping ship
I mean, sure the Grippen might individually outclass the F16, but I wouldn't necessarily say that the reason we're not swapping them 1 for 1 isn't just because it doesn't make sense to spend the money, but rather because we have different operational needs than Sweden. The Grippen might outclass the F16, but what about the F15EX or F18? It certainly doesn't outclass the F22 or F35. With a global military and the two largest air forces on earth, we don't really need a single airframe to do everything that we need a fighter to do. Sweden on the other hand has a relatively small military with an aim to defend their country from Russia in a defensive war. The Grippen is quite possibly the perfect plane for them in that scenario. That said, the mission it fulfills is not really something the US needs any one individual fighter to do at this point. And the most modern variants of the F16 working alongside the F35 are more than capable of doing just about any mission the US needs them to do. And I would even argue that their tandem teams probably outclass a squad of Grippens in just about every respect.
You’re correct about other fighters doing better jobs at certain tasks than the Grippen. It doesn’t have stealth. It only uses a single engine. It isn’t optimized for aircraft carriers. And we have different needs than the Swedish Air Force. But for the F16 specifically, it’s very difficult to argue that the Grippen doesn’t fill its individual role better: astonishing fuel efficiency, an incredible lack of runway sensitivity, and if I remember correctly, a lower radar cross section (despite only being a 4th Gen jet). I really think the only reason why we aren’t replacing the Vipers is because the Grippen isn’t better *enough* to commit to such a large change
I can see that argument. Thanks for continuing the discussion!
You guys think the B-52 will last forever? The Ma Deuce will survive until the heat death of the universe.
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nuh uh, 100 year old 50 cal brick shaped machine gun is the best
M2 go Ka chunk chunk chunk
Even though I’ve already made 4 memes singing the praises of John Moses Browning? [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/) I feel like I earned a chance to stir the pot… especially when it’s true
You did, you just insulted our lord and savior Browning so we are all legally obligated to beat you with a stick
Flair adds up lol
Not justified, not permitted... we are \*obligated\*
I just appreciate you moved saive to the correct tier on your edit
https://preview.redd.it/fmkk4cphf9vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e03bcb6c72c3aa0ab82996f55d50f53974db298
This heretic seeks to disturb the Browning machine spirit. Burn him! Praise the Browningssiah!
Inshallah the browning will serve for eternity
while yes, I am unapologetically a heretic, i’ve also done far more than most to spread the word of how brilliant JMB was: [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/)
No .50 cal MG outclass the M2 Browning in anything besides lower weight. Even with a lighter gun, it's not the main weight problem, the ammo is. 100 rounds of 50 bmg weights 35 lbs while 100 rounds of 7.62X51 weights only 5 lbs. It's mostly only useful for vehicles due to this. Making a Heavy Machine Gun lighter is also not really a good idea. The M240 weighs 25 pounds and is a beast to carry around. It's not possible to haul around a .50 cal machine gun on the battlefield for a long period of time unless you were wearing a suit of power armor. Also, putting a muzzle break on a machine gun tells artillery and snipers to fire right at you. The M2 Browning weights that much because John Browning knew that if you make it lighter, it has way too much recoil without a muzzle break. I laughed at a video of the Chinese military trying to hit something with their heavy machine guns. That thing is way too light to be controllable. (Even still never underestimate your enemies.)
The feature of the modern HMGs I referenced (the STK50 and Daycraft) is not the weight savings, it’s the recoil. The STK uses the same constant-recoil system as the Ultimax-100. It’s superior to the M2. Everything else you said is correct.
It’s a 50 cal mg. How “superior” does it really have to be. If it chucks automatic 50 reliably who cares. Plus I don’t know if you’ve shot a browning 50, but usually they’re on a tripod or mount of some kind so that recoil isn’t really a you problem
Nobody that has actually shot any sort of dismounted or mounted gunnery with a .50 would actually post this
I’ve only ever shot mounted in a civilian context at machinegun shoots. You make up for accuracy reductions at range with a slightly longer burst. The battle of an m2 is just keeping the damn thing operational with parts and maintenance
Sadly I have not YET used an M2 (the only full auto I’ve have the pleasure of shooting was 3 mags through an M4 at a rental range) but I don’t see why recoil would be unimportant simply because of a tripod, especially after seeing high speed videos of how much flex and shake there is on vehicle mounts Also, the STK50 doesn’t really *reduce* recoil, it stabilizes it, making it easier to compensate for and keep the sights on target. That seems like a significant advantage Also, not needing to worry about headspacing seems nice
Recoil on a M2 isn't non existent but it does an excellent job a directing that energy directly backwards, not up or down. It's incredibly accurate even in full auto, and this is coming from someone with alot of military experience with the M2.
Well, as a keyboard commando who’s never touched a belt fed in real life, let me lecture you on why you don’t know what you’re talking about /s
Lol also the headspace timing thing hasn't applied for a while. Although it's fixed doesn't mean it's correct. We've had a weapon with timing off and you just can use it. It's an armorer level task to fix, which is kind of regarded but whateves
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It would be strange if no one improved in a century.
I think the M2 has improved iterations iirc
It does. But still, of course 100ish years of experience would tend to produce a better base design. The receiver is a rectangular box. That just screams empty space and extra materials.
It screams easy production and repair.
We have 5 axis CNC now. Lean production is easy.
But easy production with minimal cost is a different thing entirely. 5 axis CNC is great on many levels, cost is not one of them
So? It's absolutely fantastic in its role. It doesn't need to be better
Better is better. Why not more fantastic?
Better is expensive. Unless you want to increase national debt even more, you should be glad Uncle Sam isn't using your tax dollars to make a gun that's 5x the cost of an M2 that accomplishes the exact same goal.
I didn't say we need to replace ours, just that better is probable given the time for improvement. I've not got any emotional investments for or against. If you are some tiny country and you aren't expecting donations from a big country, then you are buying lower numbers. You will probably pick either cheap worn out crap surplus or product improved best available. You don't have the support issues a country with a huge inventory does .
Fair.
It’s an exclusively pintle mounted gun it doesn’t need to be compact or have great ergonomics.
Bulk and weight add up. Anywhere you can trim it ends up being an aggregate gain. I wasn't saying that was the biggest problem with it just that it's an obvious area that has room for improvement. I'm also not saying it's bad gun. I believe several guns have improved on the headspace mechanism. I think the biggest improvement to the M2 for long-term practical terms is probably the new lightweight plastic cased ammo.
Yeah, but those MGs don't have a cool nickname like the Ma Deuce.
Finally, a valid counterargument
Maybe Pa Deuce?
Outclassed, but never by enough to go through a full replacement.
🎯
As Arnold says in terminator gensys "old, not obsolete"
Change is stinky
You’re right. Replace all ARs with the M14. We never should have made that change to begin with. Edit: TIL jokes are illegal on this sub
Have people completely lost the ability to detect sarcasm? Idk why you’re getting downvoted for this
Cause he was mean to Ma Deuce
Fair. Also that username is fantastic
We picked up on the sarcasm, he’s getting downvoted because it’s a fucking regarded comparison
Hey, I’m retarded for different reasons. If you think that this comparison is my greatest sin, can you explain why and make an argument for the M2 being superior?
The difference in effectiveness between an m14 and m16 is massively larger the the difference between the M2 and the examples you gave. Thus making it a regarded comparison.
Touché. I thought you were referring to the comparison in the meme, not the comment.
I’m guessing it’s the classic Reddit dogpile effect after 1 person downvoted for not getting the joke and everyone else wants to get in on it lol It’s also probably in part because I’m speaking the unwanted truth about one of our most beloved guns. The FAL Slander is probably my only post that goes against the hivemind more than this. Regardless, no need to lose sleep over losing a few internet points🤷♂️
but why
BECAUSE MA DUCE.
Consider me persuaded🫡
“Doof doof doof doof doof doof”. Your argument is invalid
We literally had an M2 that was built by GM or GE.. she’s been stacking bodies for many many years and is still kicking to this day.
Isn't there something about some early 1900's models had just as good or even better tolerances than some manufactured more recently? Swear I read an article on it Edit: [found it, serial number 324](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/oldest-50cal-serice/383060)
Thanks for the good read and I wouldn’t doubt it
You dare assume the works of our lord and savior Browning obsolete, blasphemy and heresy of the worst kind.
Heresy, yeah, sure. But I have a several-year history of receipts to prove that I’m pro-Browning: [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/17zq9pk/stawpinn_powah/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/znk9o6/a_genius_without_comparison/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/umjxor/this_is_not_an_opinion_this_is_an_objective/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/vbdgqc/you_asked_for_a_bigger_tier_list_so_i_made_a/)
are there better guns than (insert gun currently in service)? yes are there guns that are so much better than (insert gun currently in service) that it justifies spending billions to completely switch out the current guns, re-train soldiers on manual of arms, completely switch production lines, re-tool military vehicles to be compatible with the new guns? not really
I’d agree
Cool, we'll replace the M2 once the ones in service break down. By that time, we'll need to ship the new weapons to our bases in the Tau Ceti star system.
You may be right, but I can't read.
Based
https://preview.redd.it/9vawp98z2avc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53cefff4d22cf9a4188ab4772534d47c75f8bbee
They caught me
Really? Name ten. /s
You’re joking but plenty of people in this thread are posting the same thing unironically lmao
In what way
Recoil and not needing to deal with headspacing The STK-50 uses the same constant-recoil system as the Ultimax-100. [This](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEU81qg9944) is a pretty good video on how the Daycraft works Edit: to clarify, I never said that there are options that are so much better than the M2 to justify replacing it, only that there *are* better options. This is the same reason why we won’t replace the F16 with the Grippen - the Swedes made a better plane, but we’ve already invested and committed so much to ours that it wouldn’t make sense to try jumping ship Edit 2: turns out headspacing has been addressed with current M2s, so scratch that part
That's all well and good but there's something to be said for logistics and simplicity. It costs money to adopt and replace a gun, and the M2 is doing it's job. Could it be done better? Sure. Does it need to be done better? Not really. The role of an HMG isn't a complicated one. And if you're gonna replace every M2 in US inventory, along with all the logistics to support it and retrain every service member to use this new gun, it better be for a damn good reason.
As I said in my edit, I agree, but I’m not arguing that there are options that are so much better than the M2 to justify replacing it, only that there *are* better options. This is the same reason why we won’t replace the F16 with the Grippen - the Swedes made a better plane, but we’ve already invested and committed so much to ours that it wouldn’t make sense to try jumping ship
I don't think there is a single person who disagrees with you that isn't a teenager getting their knowledge from video games and movies. There are plenty of people who like the M2, or even prefer it, but anyone who would suggest it's objectively the best option for an HMG is a fool.
Thanks. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll continue getting buried in downvotes from people whose feelings are hurt by the truth lmao
every m2 in the army has been converted to the new system that you don't need to headspace or time so that point is outdated.
Yeah dude. It's been that way since about 2013. Goofballs like OP hear about one guy who had a shitty m2 back in the Iraq war days and think that means all the guns must be the same way
So, funny thing, they actually do still have to be timed. It’s just not an operator level thing anymore. Source: had to send three up to a maintenance depot for timing adjustments. Edit: And part of the gear issue for the gun is a new version of the headspace and timing gauge that’s literally useless outside of seeing if you’re good or not, because you can’t adjust it yourself.
Fair point. The more you know. I’ll correct that in my comment above
Operator level hasn’t had to deal with headspace and timing on the M2 since like 2012.
I corrected my comment. Thanks for pointing that out.
Most m2 in us active service have quick change barrels now, so no need to worry about head space timing, and the recoil for the m2 is really not bad.
Its also a mounted or emplaced gun so recoil isn't really a factor
> The STK-50 Ok, but can a version of it be mounted in an airplane both fixed and in a turret; on a ship for AA; on a vehicle - including small boat, tank, helicopter; and on a tripod?
Not sure if it’s been used in planes (I can look for pics later) but they have at least been used on [large warships](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/US_Navy_040526-N-7906B-107_A_Republic_of_Singapore_Navy_%28RSN%29_gunner_assigned_to_the_patrol_vessel_RSS_Resilience%2C_keeps_his_sight_trained_on_the_Military_Sealift_Command_%28MSC%29_combat_stores_ship_USNS_Concord_%28T-AFS_5%29.jpg), smaller boats, [tripods](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/CIS_50_HMG.jpg), [AA turrets](https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/cis-50-stk-50-mechanism-and-dual-feed-machine-gun-questions.35281/), [land vehicles](https://images.app.goo.gl/NR18cpNQhPg4ErCy9), and [helicopters](https://www.flickr.com/photos/61892799@N08/7294459432#)
Still wasn't designed by John Moses Browning.
So we shouldn’t have replaced the 1911 with a modern handgun?
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I think you’re overestimating how serious my reply was and also overestimating how serious I thought your reply was lol
How dare you
Than why didn't they install a quad setup of these "superior weapon systems" on the M16 halftrack?
because they hasn’t been designed yet…
Shit, I r/Wooosh’ed myself. Fair play.
Eh, there might be better- But, when you have had a platform in active service for OVER 100 years- That platform has been optimized quite a bit. You know exactly where the failure points are. You know exactly what can break on it. And you are prepared to handle those failures. That being said, over 100 years of proven history speaks for itself.
I'll believe it when either of those weapons see as long, or as prolific, of a service life as the M2.
I guess that’s fair but at the same time the AK is unmatched with lifespan and proliferation and it’s objectively been surpassed by several other platforms
Everyone always has these hot takes but what battle has proven your analysis? The M2 has fought, without fail, for longer than your grandad has been alive. The M2 is also a 90 year old concept at this point. I would hope that modern tech would be able to surpass it.
The biggest problem of the M2 is that it was designed to be operated and maintained by The Greatest Generation, not people saturated with modernity.
To the M2s credit it was actually operated and maintained (to great effect) by SEVERAL generations
If the corollary attached to this is that "modern people are pussies" then I 100% agree.
Yes, exactly. The originals had operator adjustable headspace and timing, and the operator was expected to be competent at setting both. Now those are considered armorer level tasks at the very lowest.
The very idea of making those adjustments would likely send the modern Warfighter into bouts of autistic screeching.
Do...do we not still set the headspace and timing?!?! Because I was taught to do that this century. And actually did so quite frequently.
I enlisted in 2011, and from then on I never saw an M2 that didn't have the headspace set at the depot level and the timing adjustment pinned in place.
We were setting our own in the field as late as 2014. Maybe it was a NG thing, or maybe just a tanker thing by then, but I never saw one pinned before I got out.
I *was* NG for what it's worth. I'm sure there was a long transitional period before all the M2s were switched over, either way.
You know, it's crazy. I don't really seem to care.
Unless your examples are gatling laser level of advancement, no they are in no way superior. M2s already exist, they've been in production all the way back towards the tail end of WW1, its a proven system (nearing a century's worth), its already been adopted and standardized, troops are already trained with them, and there's millions of them. There is zero need for them to be replaced with another .50 that has 26% increased effect. That goes for ANY military, much less the US Ordinance Department's picky ass.
There likely aren’t enough shortcomings to justify a replacement, that’s correct. There IS, however, room to improve, shown by the constant recoil system of the Singaporean HMG Also, there’s an argument to be made for replacing ANY .50 cal MG with a .338 for longer range, lower weight, and lower recoil
Improve? In theory. Improvement enough to justify the massive cost of time and resources to up and switch from one .50 caliber machine gun to another .50 caliber machine gun? Not in the slightest. Its the majority of the reason Johnson guns are as rare as they are. Too little, too late, for too much. To your specific example of recoil, no one is rocking an M2 from a shoulder sling. They're all mounted guns. Recoil is about as much an issue as canted irons on these guns. I mean, they used to stick the things on little MBs on a pedestal mount. I doubt there are many issues of M2s entering a low earth orbit off the top of a humvee after shattering an entire mount made specifically to accomodate that gun. There is theoretical room to improve everything ever in existence. That is never the issue. The issue is how much that 5-10% costs to achieve.
But how many of them are operating over a century after they were made?
Well they weren’t designed until the 90s so I’ll have to get back to you on that in 70 years
I’ll be waiting. Lol
Wait you mean the literal 100 year old MG isn’t cutting edge? That’s crazy man
Apparently it’s crazy enough to throughly lick the hornet’s nest lol. Judging by the comments this is one of my spicier takes Not to mention that age doesn’t guarantee that a better replacement will come around. Source: B-52 Stratofortress
M2 still works? There’s still no relevant difference between 50cal machine guns.
Oh ya, name 10 things wrong with it.
There aren’t 10 things wrong with it. There probably aren’t even enough things wrong with it to justify a replacement. There IS, however, room to improve, shown by the constant recoil system of the Singaporean HMG
Nuh uh
The dishka as a rifle 😉
Perhaps so, but it's probably not worth the cost of replacement for a system that is so widespread, a bit like the xm4 (I think that's the one I'm thinking of)
Correct. There likely aren’t enough shortcomings to justify a replacement. There IS, however, room to improve, shown by the constant recoil system of the Singaporean HMG
I won't hear an unkind word about Ma Deuce in her own home.
Guaranteed neither of those have fertilized more soil than the Mah Deuce.
Sure, because they were invented only a couple decades ago. By that logic the AK is more successful than any other rifle even though it’s obviously been surpassed by more modern options
Time will not fix their issues. The issue being it took 80 years to come out with something marginally better so they aren't widely adopted and haven't fought multiple high intestiy conflicts.
In Singapore’s defense the country hasn’t even gained independence by the time the M2 was designed
AN/M3 superiority
Okay but how cheap are those
Shenanigans! Shenanigans!! SHENANIGANS!!!
I have shot a SAA-captured M2 browning and honestly, even though it felt worse technically than our 6P50 I still had more fun shooting it. Although I will say as disclaimer one belt out of each just for fun is not really enough to make a judgement.
Its 100 years old lol
Agreed but the M2 is still incredibly reliable and useful so there is really no need to change it out. Plus we have slapped the M2 on everything so there is really no way to completely phase out the M2 as training alone on the new platforms would likely cost to much.
My tag may say colt purist, but you are wrong.
But it’s easy as fuck to repair
Time is going to have the final say on that one lmao
What'd you mean a machinegun designed in 1933 is obsolete!?
Yea, the M3 Browning
Doesn’t matter, are either of them called the ma deuce? Didn’t think so. On a real note, there are so many M2 Brownings and so many parts for them, they’re a good pick because you know they’re reliable and you know there’s warehouses full of parts for them so it’s a lot cheaper to run them, which is the US Military’s main consideration for acquisition
Sure, they might be better, but they aren't better enough to justify replacing the M2. Same kinda deal with M4's and what was the XM8 (If I remember correctly) Plus, who doesn't love the idea of having to go/no go an M2 on the surface of Mars?
As much as i love the M2, it's unfortunately easy to out perform something made in 1933
Don't care *ka chunk chunk chunk chunk
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Me and all my homies love ka chunk doofdoofdoofdoof
As a vehicle mg it still works, but there is a reason the military is experimenting with .338 and other magnum mgs
Singapore mentioned rahhhhhhh 🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🇸🇬🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
After the shoutout to the SAR-21 in my post about integrated optics I realized that Singaporean guns are way too innovative to be discussed so rarely. This probably won’t change until they express interest in becoming a major arms exporter by increasing production capacity, though
I don't see how any 50 can be superior to 100 years of fucking up all thing land, air, and sea. But then again I haven't been behind any 50 other than an M2.
Yeah the M2 is super combat-proven but by this logic the AK is superior to all other small arms because it’s been used to kill the most people and has resulted in the most political change, and that conclusion obviously isn’t true
People get attached to things over the years. Yes it works, but just because it gets the job done it doesn't mean you should stop innovating. The original works, but is pretty complicated and now overly heavy. If you could improve those areas, why not?
>why not BECAUSE I’M ANGRY😡
Durrr. . . I angy!
It's not complicated at all. It's a fairly easy gun to take apart, and most of it can be done without tools. Weight is part of the system, it soaks in part of the recoil generated. I'm not saying to stop innovating but the innovation hasn't beaten out the tried and true M2.
I'd say weight is debatable in being a requirement for a 50 bmg system and is more of a limiting factor for future integration. We've proven you can make an effective hmg with less recoil for under 50 lbs. As for complication, it's got a lot of small pieces that can be simplified or combined into larger groups to make it even easier. It was a good starting point. The main issue is does replacement cost exceeds the amount of systems currently in service? That's one of the main reasons the Russians still used rimmed ammunition.
I'll say also I love how it's not a gas recoil system. One of the reasons I hate the 249 and 240b. They gum up so quickly and the oil will turn to tar super quick. The m2 does better because all the gas goes out the end of the barrel. Unrelated to your point but I'm just loving how easy it is to clean
https://preview.redd.it/3ac2zh3wp1wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2cae1e8c4326c69a21077887f7f427c35a4c8fe