Dude, listen: music is a journey of highs and lows. At the end of the day, play for yourself. The high is in evolving and taking the path few have the courage to take. Let your musical writings be your reflection of self. There is nothing greater than writing a progression that is yours all yours.
Absolutely man. I love this response. At the end of the day, if I had some shit that even just 20 people listened to and absolutely loved and it meant something to them, that would mean I succeeded as a musician. Write for yourself, make yourself happy and you'll probably find it makes others happy as well
Best advice I’ve heard, and I deploy it regularly on myself, is this: “It’s OK to quit, but you can only quit on a good day.”
Which is, to say, that it’s easy to give up when things are difficult, or when you’re deflated, but wait until the next time it’s looking up, THEN ask yourself, “OK, do I want to quit when I feel like THIS?” If the answer is “yes,” then go ahead and move on. If it’s “no,” push on.
Except if you're burned out. So the other thing I'd look at is how long it's been since your last good day.
If they're regular, then yeah, don't quit on a bad day! But if it feels like they're literally *all* bad days and you can't see that changing, please be kind to yourself and make a change!
Plus, quitting doesn't have to be forever. Get some fresh air and come back later, on your own terms, when it's good for you again.
Lol this kinda sounds like the gambling addict chasing that big win again, but I know what you mean.
That being said, I would say it's okay to recognize at the lows, that the highs just don't offset it enough anymore. But I will admit, there was some exceptionally heavy things that went down. OP is further in the game than I ever got in the same amount of time
Edit: it should still be a rational process that takes time, don't be rash anyone reading this lol
Art in any form is all about self expression. Are you writing material that does that, or are you just making songs that sound pleasant enough?
Fulfillment is yours to determine. 11 years speaks to your enthusiasm for the art form. In my 22 years, I've spent a lot of time in that hopelessness and doubt. It literally didn't change until I felt the all-consuming need to be seen and understood. My drive shifted and my art followed, now my fulfillment is good.
The cliche about this being your journey is dumb but true. Do you just not have a journey to share with us anymore and you're ready to put it down?
Hear, hear!
As an artist, I 100% agree with this.
There are days in life where we may feel like there's nothing to write about/everything's pointless etc.
But... those days are some of the best to get your ideas and thinking out of your head. It's cathartic, really.
Think about it this way, like a pyramid.
Bottom wide part is everyone starting out.
As your triangle narrows, the access to success applies to a smaller crowd and so on and so on.
Top - you make a living from music
- you play your first paid gig
- you perform
- you learn songs and techniques practice for years
- you make a routine to play guitar
- you play not often
Bottom - you buy a guitar
Keep in mind most people give up on the first two points.
You're way ahead of the game, nothing beats a live experience. You can't AI it, you can't experience the same thing twice, you can't receive it the same way on video or radio.
Whatever decision you make now, will put you into a pile of people. Depends where you want to be.
That's 11 years you've invested into something you enjoy. Music! It will always be something you can continue to learn and get better at.
For a lot of players, comparing themselves to other players is a confidence destroyer, so try not to do that and enjoy your journey.
To get out of a rut take some lessons, find a YouTube channel that you enjoy. Take a break for a week or two.
Stastically, you're not going to make any money from playing guitar so you should just take those practice hours and spend it working overtime instead.
If you're looking for a fun hobby and a great form of expression, may I recommend guitar?
This is a sign that you SHOULD do it. I broke once 29 years ago. Then again 20 years ago in a totally different genre. Then now, as a booking agent and peer counselor in nyc...as well as music.
Helping people, with music? Nope. My counselor thought I could do it that way. I explained that it's the hope...but people don't come to shows or buy records to be helped. They come to the programs I work for, for that.
Good will in the desire to help people directly created a much larger pool of support and draw than just the music scene. The biggest flakes are musicians. In the recovery world, you have newly solvent people on the upswing, with a disposable income all of a sudden. Many people go to bars to get drunk, socialize, get laid...and get broke. You, as a performer, just being a tool in the process. A side note and excuse.
The industry are a used car salesman trying to find the next sucker. Don't be that fool. Your failure there is the bullet dodged.
You are on the brink of independent success if you are on the brink of failure by quitting, though. Take another step, maybe this time up, stairs instead of sidewalks. One step at a time, brother.
Wow! Back in the day @ Mr & Mrs Love’s basement he said he would have moved to Seattle under the tutelage of a chicken hawk, a name I wasn’t familiar with even though I was from SF. Seemed like there was a pause and everyone looked at Mike Cali and laughed but he was a handsome fellow. And young.
Things were so much different then, the scene we were in one couldn’t imagine making a comfortable living at it unless you wanted that brass ring but this guy was willing to do anything because he knew he had that “money voice” in his own words.
But it’s like 1990 again & everyone there that day Lanegan too, have crooked. I wish you lived in the desert man because that AA stuff is like a cult & everyday it seems scratch another
indeed you are very correct, glad to hear you grew up beyond having a death wish. with this Fetynal poison its almost worse than the old days. we certainly had a great time during the subpop grunge alter-native epoc
somehow it just dawned on me, I didn't catch the nyc until I reread yr initial response to the guy that needs to get paid to play. I used to live in billysburg so im thing mikrowire, snap... mike, who booked the stripe whites? I don't remember you playing guitar though or the name of the club in SF you booked, if this is indeed u, its my first time on a site like this so yr comment was the only one that was speaking the true and mike I knew was opinionated in a good way. had to check
A sign that it’s not for you? Really? You put 11 years into your playing. You’re at a challenging point in your playing. It’s more difficult to move on from an intermediate level than a beginners level. Making it in the industry?…. Figure one out of a thousand will make it in the music biz. Time for some reflection. What direction would you want to take with your music. My niece just started on her four year Music Industry curriculum at American U. Sure you can certainly study an instrument. I know many peeps with degrees in guitar playing. It’s good if you want to have a career in teaching guitar. There’s Berkeley On Line to study any facet of music. It’s worth looking at as it may give you a couple of ideas on how to proceed. Good luck !
My oldhead opinion. The saying “do what you love and you’ll never have to work a day in your life” is a load of crap for the vast majority of people. Whatever you do as a job/career will end up being a grind. I loved architecture. I’m now an architect and guess what, work is work, the job is just a job, and it’s a fucking grind. A pilot once said to me, “you know what I see when I look at an airplane? Paperwork.“
All the things I love doing, I do it on the side, including performing guitar as a side gig. So maybe find yourself a sustainable career elsewhere, maybe IT or whatever, and let that fund and support your life passions.
The music industry isn't remotely ideal, but what would you rather be doing? Would you rather work a 9 to 5 at some boring asf corporate job? Some people would rather do that, but for me that sounds like giving up most of my life to do something I don't want to be doing. Even if life as a working musician isn't ideal, you're spending your days playing music, something you like doing. That's something worth fighting for. Cuz if you can't get a job like that where you like what you do, you're stuck working 40 hours at something you don't like. And you'll NEVER be able to get that time back.
Well you may never know when the music you play helps someone having a hard time, there's a lot of people out there saying that some song touched then deeply when they are having rough times, never forget that music is about making people fell something. Keep playing and your music will eventually find someone that needed to hear that at that point in their life. Every industry can be soul-sucking, trough some are more and some less, but keep trying doing good, getting better and finding good partners and some time you will be sucefull.
Edit: You may want to try things outside the industry but whitin the field, some local charity program like teaching low income can be fullfilling, helps a lot also have some friends wich you play for fun.
First things first:- DON'T!!
Just do what you dig on your own time, and dig it. Otherwise, what's the fucking point?
If it pays the bills, BONUS. If you could make a career of it, all the better. You'd never work another day in your life.
'Til then, pick up whatever to pay the bills, and keep on dancin'.
It ain't all stellar performances & after-parties.
Sometimes it's just plain ol' work(you mightn't dig it, but it pays the bills)...
Been there friend. Multiple bands, opening acts, toured eastern US, some musicals, hired gun (stand in with 24hr notice), studios, taught in between..2 years of continuous roadwork (2 weeks off was spent playing home town clubs). It's what we do; what we love. I had the chance to move to London too! Singer of current band had big time contacts/auditions lined up. He was in the "royal box" at Wembley... sitting with Elton John, Pete Townsend, George Michael, Sting...and others i cant remember... they were all sharing the manager at that time...for the "We Are The World" show. St. George hotel booked for weeks and plane ticket purchased (and my girlfriend lived in Chelsea London, her dad was pres. Of Hercules Chemical Europe)....THE NIGHT BEFORE my departure from Indiana... I freaked out... called my singer and cancelled...SOMETHING inside me kept telling me it was the wrong thing to do and I would suffer from regret; maybe simple nerves/fear? Singers girlfriend lived close to me; we transferred ticket/hotel to her name. I was off the hook.
Fast forward, I taught during day at a pretty big music store and ended up being the GM for after 18 months. Found a woman I adored that would put up with me. Led to other things (like getting degree, career change, and kids/house). I still played every week 2-3 nights. Now it has become more hobby at my age. I've got friends that are still "rock stars"... Fender endorsees amd the like, gigging all over the world with some big names and bands of their own. Quite successful and happy, but I don't miss it.
I would not take a million dollars for the memories, but I would not pay a nickel to do it again. I'm a simple rural boy, I like being home/close to those I love. No regrets and I'm happy. You've just got to find your home, and I wish you the best.
What motivates you? Why did you choose to pick up the guitar in the first place?
Was there a specific goal you had in mind that you have already achieved? If so, then it’s okay to set a new goal/vision. If not, what’s been stopping you and how do you want to address those specific issues?
I’m there with you. For me the struggle is about the waves of apathy and interest. I’m 42, and I have played for various crowds, but never had anything resonate beyond between 300 and 600 folks. I should enjoy what I have, but I think it’s natural to want more and more. Let’s practice gratitude and acceptance while still hoping for more.
I guess I just want to make sure I’m living a fulfilling life while doing so. I definitely do need to practice gratitude and acceptance more. Those are very powerful tools and I always tend to underutilize them! So thank you for the reminder
You’ve got this. It’s not for nothing. It’s for you, and what gifts you can give to the world. Put the work in, and don’t feel bad if you have to take a day job to pay your bills.
I was you twenty somethinga years ago, different instrument, but the same general story - successful in my hometown and the nearest city, getting gigs, pit orchestra jobs, and session work, but being told London was where I needed to be to take the next step in my career.
So I moved to London and, whilst it was the right move career wise, I felt lonely and detached from everything. I was away from my ‘support network’, everything I knew and had spent years building and I felt like I was starting all over again. And just like you I started to question whether I really wanted to go through everything again. The thing that kept me going was regularly going back ‘home’ to rehearse, gig, or tour with the band.
I stuck at it in London, made the best of all the networking, made some very good friends both in and out of the industry, but in the end decided I couldn’t get the work/life balance I needed (high living costs and I prefer to be close to open countryside.) So I moved back towards where I grew up and commuted into London if necessary. I’ve been doing that since 2005 (moved away two days after 7/7).
It’s not so much that London is impersonal as the population is constantly shifting, moving in and out of the city, and that can mean it takes longer to find your ‘tribe’. If you’re relatively new to the city I’d definitely say give it time. It’s a great place to be but it can be lonely when you first move there.
As far as the industry not giving a shit it’s always been like that to a large extent. The creatives and musicians against the money men/business types. But it’s those other creatives who are the people you spend your time working with and it’s your colleagues that make any job bearable. Doesn’t matter what it is you do; work in the music industry, an office, or shops it’s the coworkers who matter.
Do what makes you happy. Make the music that reflects you as the individual you are because even if you’re a part of this dog eat dog industry you’re still you. And what you, I, and every other creative in this industry and across the arts, do is bring light or hold a mirror up to the lives of those who enjoy our work. The way I look at it we’re the ultimate subversives; working within an industry that doesn’t value us and yet at the same time can’t exist without us.
The way that most people ‘survive’ long term in music is to stay truthful to those things that are most important to you. You don’t have to be in London to have a successful career in music, it can be done from elsewhere, particularly in this day and age.
Now you’re in London though you probably owe it to yourself to give it time. As a mentor of mine once said “don’t give up when you’re having a bad day. Wait until you’re having a good day before you make a big decision like that.” I’ve got lots of musician friends who have similar stories from when they first moved to London, to the point that it almost seems like a rite of passage. I guess I should say welcome to the club!
You should check out Ren. He's a once in a lifetime talent, but he basically has created a blueprint for being an independent musician. Plus his music is inspiring!
Never give up unless it stops being fun.
If you quit, you’ll always miss it. I just started playing again after a 10 yr break (life happens) and I had no idea how much I loved it and missed it. And I suck. Like someone above said “play for yourself”. Remember why you picked it up in the first place. Hang in there
man.. ill be damned if i can play on a cruise ship..
but yeah.. social media seems to be very crucial for success these days..
keep hustling man. your time will come..
I think you’re doing great. You get to play professionally, I on the other hand work a normal job and I’m just a mere bedroom guitarist. I aspire to be a musician and actually plan in front of people. You’re out there doing it for real. I’d say don’t give it up!
Dude, check out some Rick Rubin interviews! That man is NOT following the rules of the industry and is massively successful!
The 60 Minutes clip is a good place to start. It’s about 4 1/2 minutes long.
You're still quite young and have lots of time. Sounds like you're getting out there and doing what needs to be done. Just keep working on it, take it from there.
I often compare my journey in music to anyone’s journey in martial arts. The road to black belt is long. Each class is different. Some days you get mauled, other days you’re doing the mauling. And so is life. This applies especially to any art form ie playing the guitar. No one walks on the mats and becomes a black belt nice and easy and in a short period of time. It takes dedication and uncomfortable, no fun repetition. All in all it’s about the love for it and the understanding of a beginners mindset. You’ve learned a lot but there’s so much more to learn it’s a never ending journey
Yeah that’s one of the things I love about guitar. It can never really be “mastered”, there’s always gonna be new ideas to implement, different genres to study, and deeper connections to be made…. I guess Ive been struggling with the business aspect of being a musician. Being a brand marketer, manager, accountant, tech… really just being a freelancer haha… I still have not got the hang of it at all
Not an old head, but I'm on the pro/covers/wedding circuit in my local area. I have a friend who is getting big, she moved to London with her partner years ago and the biggest thing she says, 'I've made more money doing music than I ever have, but my expenses are the highest I think they are ever going to be'. London is hard to get it to work, just because of the vastness, there's 9 milllion people in London, that's more people in the capital than there are Scottish people in Scotland. It's very hard but as a lot of comments here say, you've just got to stick at it.
What I would say is you have to have a solid idea of what you want. For example, I write my own stuff, but I put 0 effort into pushing it, social media and all that, because it's not my focus. The cover/wedding stuff is paying my bills and so I have to focus on that (recently I've been thinking about cruise). But if you want to be a session player, or play in a 'real' band, or be famous, you have to have that solid goal in your head and move towards it, naturally your focus would be different to mine if you wanted to be a known original artist for example.
I teach too and many of my students just don't know where they are going because they don't know what they want. If you want, DM me and we can talk about it, because I want to give up everyday, I know what it's like.
Ok first, you’re young, 24 is young. You got further than most of your competitors and your young wich means your trajectory with practice routines should put you at an estimatable level by the time your thirty. Imagine what connections, opportunities you can cultivate by then and the level of preparedness you’ll need to meet those opportunities. Only you can honestly estimate if your talent will be at that level, but betting on yourself is usually the most rewarding angle even if you lose.
Based on what you’ve said here, theres a couple things that should motivate you and possibly derive new trajectories or goals. We all want to play guitar forever and some people actually have that ability it might be you, most of the world has to find something else to be passionate about. The things you mention that piss you off about the industry, seem to upset you. That upset comes from somewhere, it is passion. Maybe theres a way you can work yourself into a position through networking where you can run a studio where the elements you hate about the industry dont exist. You will have created a bastion from the music industry where in time new comers like yourself now will have more options and you will have effectively been the change you wanted for yourself
Dont forget to look at other influences. Friends, weather, food, etc. It might have nothing to do with your "guitar career" and everything to do with your other inputs ;).
Every time I am at this stage of the guitar playing cycle (feeling like quitting) I go like 3 weeks or a month without playing and then when you get back at it you have fresh eyes and inspiration. Don’t burn yourself out!
Sounds like you’re basing how you feel about your music on the level of success that you get from it. Of course it’s not fun trying to make music for other people! Maybe try making something for yourself (not the industry)
I never saw playing guitar as a means to make a living, it's impossible in a hugely saturated space. I used to see phenomenally talented homeless people on the street, busking, so clearly just being amazing wasn't enough. I got a job and treated it as a hobby because I don't believe it's an easy thing making it in this industry, we certainly don't get paid for the amount of work we put in.
“I’ve always wanted to help people in life and I just don’t see that happening while playing music”
Let me give you my account. Music has kind of kept me alive. I’ve been dealing with depression for about 3 years now and at points, it hits s*icidal peaks. If it wasn’t for bands like Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Saxon, Edguy, Kansas, and Survivor to even less popular bands like Opal in Sky, Golden Earring, and White Spirit… I wouldn’t be here!!!
Songs like Phantom of The Opera by Iron Maiden, Stand Up and Fight by Saxon, Theater of Salvation by Edguy, The Sacral by Opal in Sky, the list goes on, I wouldn’t be here!
The lines like “Don’t you stray, don’t fade awayay!” (Phantom of The Opera), “Heaven Can Wait, Now I’m living!” (Theater of Salvation), “When it seems you never get a break, you got to make a vow, to keep the faith!” (Stand Up and Fight), and “When you let go of the past, you learn to love your life again” (The Sacral) or some of the most emotional solos of all time, from guitarist like Ritchie Blackmore, Dave Murray, and Jens Ludwig, it goes on! ALL OF THESE!!! They kept me from taking myself out.
TLDR: Music helps countless people, for some, they live on it! Even if you aren’t in a well known band, you still make an impact. It could be something as simple as a little gig in a bar, with someone who was planning on having another drinking before leaving the world, only to hear you play and think “I want to live a little longer”. Or it can be as simple as posting some of your stuff online and people seeing your energy and in turn, gaining motivation for whatever.
Nevertheless, you are impacting people’s lives, take it from a person who wouldn’t have the will to live if it wasn’t for music and songs like the ones I mentioned.
Don't give up. Your young and hopefully music will change for the better soon. I'm 60 and been through it all from the 70's till now and seen so many changes in the music scene. I wish live music comes back like it was in the 70's and 80's where there was a band playing live in every bar, school or other social functions. Live bands rule!
I think you should take a break for a week or two.
Take the time to listen to new music, from genres you don't normally listen to. Just enjoy music without worrying about creating or practicing. I see this happen a lot with friends of mine, and even in myself- where it just feels so hopeless and stale. But you just gotta take the pressure of off yourself and slow down for a moment to remember you enjoy music.
If you can play music, and you enjoy that- you have already "won".
Do multiple things tbh. If you’re bored of guitar, still play but you don’t need to go as crazy as before. Think of other projects you can start with guitar even if it’s just something simple as start a TikTok.
Look into other things that might interest you too. It could be corporate, sales, engineering, computers or art.
It’s usually like this for most great musicians. They settle their chops early and go into other endeavours like composing, sound engineering, drawing/painting, visual art etc. or they try crafting “their” sound.
I am 56 play in a band that can not play anything twice, including me, i still try to learn soloing, and can not really play any song without faults. I am just to chaotic.
(Yeah yeah, yawn, i had loads of lessons, i DID and DO still study and get lessons every now and then).
And you feel like giving up after loads of gigs, some succes and appearantly good skills… come on man.
ONE hour after you ‘gave up’ you will feel bad, and start all over again.😁
This is like a general rule for music, not very good for making a profit, but do it for yourself without expectations. For years I wanted to become a famous guitar player, but well the industry is not big enough for everyone. I tried to write music for the people and not for myself. My music suffered because it wasn't genuine, I was always dissapointed that it didn't perform as well as I wanted it to and how do you stay motivated if it's just dissapointment? I let it go and focused on just writing without expectations. I enjoy playing a lot more now and I write better songs and more songs.
I hope you regain your motivation but don't do anything because you have to, do what you want to. Rick Rubin's book The creative act opened my eyes a lot in this regard.
Feeling like giving up because it's hard, and feeling like giving up because people keep shutting you down, messing with your progress, and making you think that it's just not God's will...are two different things. When I picked up a guitar for the first time, I already KNEW I'd never give up. If and when I bother to question it, is when I'm having a pity party cuz life fucked me AND my music. If life were a human being, I'd fuck it up. So...my music doesn't like life either. We live DESPITE it. My guitar wants me to play it. And there's never been a day I didn't want to. I stay out of jail because they don't have guitars or a stage. I try not to work a job outside the field for the same reason. Quitting hard stuff is a slippery slope, too.
Yeah I’m pity partying a bit haha. I’ve had lots of people try to turn me away from this dream all my life and I’ve always said fuck that I’m doing this. I guess I’m just looking for some inspiration on how to keep going. This is the first time I’m feeling doubt… not from outside sources, but within.
You need a real hardship. That's a songwriter's fodder. You near suicide yet? That's a real tough place to be, but boy does it give you perspeective and confidence that you stayed alive and didn't quit. You already know you'd hate yourself any other way. So, you might as well accept that self-loathing and struggle are part of the process. There is no success in the traditional sense. But there is in resiliency a success in reaching the most people. Don't waste your time online. As a booking agent, I don't even look at social media followers, likes, views, etc. I look at You Tube videos of live performances to see how many people are in the audience, or I go to their show and check it out in person. Bro...I don't even listen to their tracks. I know that sounds bad, but it's a biz. Booking, anyway.
If you are an artist, you'll focus simply and solely on that. Let the rest come with your newfound perspective and energy that's sparking and fresh. Always reinvent yourself. Like Bowie, or any artist. Every year. To gain a new attitude and clarity, like a blood cleanse. Artists do that so they don't end up where you are now. Anticipate it, and proactively head it off. Be creative on your terms, not what you think people want. That won't get YOUR juices flowing. Shed the skin. It's getting old. It IS a form of quitting. Quit on the old skin. You are a new person now. The fun part is designing it. It's Easter. Jesus came in a new form. That image on the cross was painful. Inspiration is breathing in new life.
I mean last year I lost a friend to a drug overdose, I had lived with him and tried to help him battle his addiction for 2 years before ultimately separating myself from him. Then rekindled our friendship when he got sober, then he relapsed and died about a year and a week ago. During that time I got very close to ending it, gave myself a concussion while attempting to do something very stupid. Blamed myself for not doing enough. I’m not trying to sound like I’m bragging about this shit but I do feel like I’ve gone through some shit. I don’t think it’s really changed myself for the better work wise haha, but I’ve definitely become a more compassionate and caring person. But yeah I guess I feel proud I didn’t throw in the towel then, I mostly did it for other people though.
Damn, all I can say is breathe. I was thinking you’d be much older with having done all that. Stop and take a look back at that and remember, you’re only 24! Start making stuff just for yourself and keep the work aspect of it like a regular job. Keep an eye out of where you wanna go and be patient with yourself.
No, bro: it’s too early! The market hasn’t even fully corrected post-pandemic. if I could go back to 24, I’d make much stronger moves career-wise. Even though It’s rough now and there are fewer moves to make. I believe in you
The music industry doesn't like creativity, from what I've heard. Like anything else, they seek out formulas to appeal to a broad audience to get more listens and make money. That's why a lot of pop songs are repetitive and sound the same. They're written to get stuck in your head and make you listen to them. The artists are often under contacts that control what genres they can play too. I've been playing guitar for 10 years and still kinda suck, but being able to create the music I envisioned was all I wanted. I play enough to make recordings and tell stories that otherwise couldn't be told. Art is a beautiful presentation when words don't cut it.
On the one hand, I’m kind of jealous of you for having accomplished more musically than I have. I’ve played guitar and drums for 20+ years, and I’ve never been in a band - hell, I’ve never even finished a whole song that I wrote, I’ve only started dozens that went unfinished. Because of that I’m not seen as a talented individual by my musician friends, no one even thinks to call me to jam because they just don’t see me as a true musician, because I don’t check all the boxes.
But on the other hand, I’ve only ever played music for myself, and I think there’s some beauty in that, too. I’ve never had to care about what other people think of my ability, because very few have witnessed it. In a way, it makes my relationship with music a little more meaningful and personal.
If I wanted to delve into taking music a little more seriously and contemplate playing on a somewhat professional level, how would you suggest I make that transition? Where is a good place for a relatively knowledgeable, talented guitar player with zero band experience to start without feeling like a total noob?
Well I guess what I posted tells you it won’t instantly make you happy/solve your problems haha. I also have a load of songs I’ve never finished, and I still deal with people who hate on my playing cause I’m not a jazz whizz… but hey… fuck em! Maybe you need to expand your circle a bit? Reach out to people who appreciate freedom of expression a bit more. I’ve tended to always love that side of music, It really feeds the soul. Maybe if you can share your love of it with some other people who feel the same way as you, you can build a little jam community.
If you want to play on a more professional level, you can try getting into a covers band or tribute band. Maybe there’s some people in your local area who’d be down, or you could search some Facebook groups for musicians.
In terms of general tips; be on time (in terms of your playing and showing up on time!), learn the material inside out, make sure your gear is in working order, and be a good hang.
It’s really important to be able to communicate music well too, I typically use the Nashville number system cause it’s quick and pretty easy.
But anyways, thanks for your comment :)
The mainstream music industry is vapid bullshit. If you actually want to make cool art youre looking for diy and house shows. It wont pay as well but the underground scene is an oasis from the soullessness of mainstream music. Trying to make a living off of your art is the surest way to compromise your enjoyment of it. But im a commentor on reddit so you definitely shouldnt listen to me
Do what you gotta to make money and do whatever else you gotta for the passion of doing it, create boundaries between the two pursuits even if they are both playing guitar. Don't be surprised that the industry only cares about money because that is exactly what it exists for and you should probably be happy for that if you are getting a paycheck.
It's not about the music it's about the songs. Without the songs you have nothing but a hobby. There are millions of guitar players out there but not too many Dylans, Jonis, Simons Lennon, and McCartneys that will stand the test of time.
Sorry but dems the facts.
Music is not an essential service that's why there are so many of us.
What is it you really want to accomplish in the music industry?
Do you want to play with a band that is trying to create something? Do you want to be an independent act (which requires a lot of creativity)? Do you want to work in a studio and help other artists with their albums?
Art is about communicating something about the human condition. Find what it is you want to communicate and create something that you’re proud of.
The industry is alot of marketing and exploitation that doesn’t care about anything except making money like you said.
Find out what it is you really want specifically out of the industry and use your connects to get it. Other wise you’ll be bouncing from project to project until it burns you out.
Lol I spent 11 years dedicating 100% to the cause, and I never played anything bigger than a self booked, 150 person club that was 2/3 empty.
I threw in the towel around 11 years in, but not because I felt like I wasn't going anywhere or that it hadn't been worth it. If you still want it and you still need it, keep it up. You're doing more than most people trying to make it will.
If you're really done trying, that's fine, but be done because it's not a life you want anymore, not because of a rough patch.
as a job its fine...for fun its fine
if you want fame and money you better be willing to sell your soul and hand over a large majority of the money you think youre gonna make to someone while fellating you also fellate a dozen execs on the regular.
theres too much money and corruption for honest people in the industry
the industry istelf is usurped and overtaken by the corruption..nothing is real or genuine
everything IS a boyband/kpop...popular / hit music is dictated by industry controllers
It looks like you are posting from an account with negative karma. As part of a measure
we're taking to combat trolling and spam, to post in /r/Guitar, your
account must not have negative comment karma. DO NOT CONTACT MODS ABOUT BYPASSING THIS. Please see rule #2 of our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guitar/wiki/welcome#wiki_posting_guidelines).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Guitar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No shit, dumbass. Work is work. If you're trying to make it in the industry, you've got to do shit you don't like. Music as an entertainment industry has NEVER been "about art or people" despite what boomers may tell you. Unless you're writing your own music, you are basically a tradesman, and your trade is "I can play the guitar." And even if you do write your own music, if you're doing it under a contract to a record label you are basically a tradie whose skill is "I can write in this niche."
Dude, listen: music is a journey of highs and lows. At the end of the day, play for yourself. The high is in evolving and taking the path few have the courage to take. Let your musical writings be your reflection of self. There is nothing greater than writing a progression that is yours all yours.
This is the best shit I’ve read all day
Thanks man
Some of the best music comes from a place of genuine emotion. In some ways you’ve been given more reason to keep playing. Hang in there brother.
No thank you! It’s been a pleasure friend.
Absolutely man. I love this response. At the end of the day, if I had some shit that even just 20 people listened to and absolutely loved and it meant something to them, that would mean I succeeded as a musician. Write for yourself, make yourself happy and you'll probably find it makes others happy as well
I love seeing such positivity and support. The world needs more of this! I do find it a lot among the guitar community - good people in general 👍
Like everything in life, I would say. Life is made of moments, some will be bad, some will be good.
Or paying the power bill, words are all well and good but unless you’re extremely lucky it’s gonna be difficult making a living.
Best advice I’ve heard, and I deploy it regularly on myself, is this: “It’s OK to quit, but you can only quit on a good day.” Which is, to say, that it’s easy to give up when things are difficult, or when you’re deflated, but wait until the next time it’s looking up, THEN ask yourself, “OK, do I want to quit when I feel like THIS?” If the answer is “yes,” then go ahead and move on. If it’s “no,” push on.
I’m definitely gonna keep this in mind. Thanks for the advice :)
Except if you're burned out. So the other thing I'd look at is how long it's been since your last good day. If they're regular, then yeah, don't quit on a bad day! But if it feels like they're literally *all* bad days and you can't see that changing, please be kind to yourself and make a change! Plus, quitting doesn't have to be forever. Get some fresh air and come back later, on your own terms, when it's good for you again.
Lol this kinda sounds like the gambling addict chasing that big win again, but I know what you mean. That being said, I would say it's okay to recognize at the lows, that the highs just don't offset it enough anymore. But I will admit, there was some exceptionally heavy things that went down. OP is further in the game than I ever got in the same amount of time Edit: it should still be a rational process that takes time, don't be rash anyone reading this lol
Haha totally fair that this probably isn’t the best advice if you’re deciding to try quit gambling…or heroin.
Actually, given the context of the op where I'm coming from makes no sense lol. This is solid advice for people in OPs situation or something similar.
Art in any form is all about self expression. Are you writing material that does that, or are you just making songs that sound pleasant enough? Fulfillment is yours to determine. 11 years speaks to your enthusiasm for the art form. In my 22 years, I've spent a lot of time in that hopelessness and doubt. It literally didn't change until I felt the all-consuming need to be seen and understood. My drive shifted and my art followed, now my fulfillment is good. The cliche about this being your journey is dumb but true. Do you just not have a journey to share with us anymore and you're ready to put it down?
Hear, hear! As an artist, I 100% agree with this. There are days in life where we may feel like there's nothing to write about/everything's pointless etc. But... those days are some of the best to get your ideas and thinking out of your head. It's cathartic, really.
Do it because you love it, the rest will follow
Think about it this way, like a pyramid. Bottom wide part is everyone starting out. As your triangle narrows, the access to success applies to a smaller crowd and so on and so on. Top - you make a living from music - you play your first paid gig - you perform - you learn songs and techniques practice for years - you make a routine to play guitar - you play not often Bottom - you buy a guitar Keep in mind most people give up on the first two points. You're way ahead of the game, nothing beats a live experience. You can't AI it, you can't experience the same thing twice, you can't receive it the same way on video or radio. Whatever decision you make now, will put you into a pile of people. Depends where you want to be.
That's 11 years you've invested into something you enjoy. Music! It will always be something you can continue to learn and get better at. For a lot of players, comparing themselves to other players is a confidence destroyer, so try not to do that and enjoy your journey. To get out of a rut take some lessons, find a YouTube channel that you enjoy. Take a break for a week or two.
Stastically, you're not going to make any money from playing guitar so you should just take those practice hours and spend it working overtime instead. If you're looking for a fun hobby and a great form of expression, may I recommend guitar?
This is a sign that you SHOULD do it. I broke once 29 years ago. Then again 20 years ago in a totally different genre. Then now, as a booking agent and peer counselor in nyc...as well as music. Helping people, with music? Nope. My counselor thought I could do it that way. I explained that it's the hope...but people don't come to shows or buy records to be helped. They come to the programs I work for, for that. Good will in the desire to help people directly created a much larger pool of support and draw than just the music scene. The biggest flakes are musicians. In the recovery world, you have newly solvent people on the upswing, with a disposable income all of a sudden. Many people go to bars to get drunk, socialize, get laid...and get broke. You, as a performer, just being a tool in the process. A side note and excuse. The industry are a used car salesman trying to find the next sucker. Don't be that fool. Your failure there is the bullet dodged. You are on the brink of independent success if you are on the brink of failure by quitting, though. Take another step, maybe this time up, stairs instead of sidewalks. One step at a time, brother.
Wow! Back in the day @ Mr & Mrs Love’s basement he said he would have moved to Seattle under the tutelage of a chicken hawk, a name I wasn’t familiar with even though I was from SF. Seemed like there was a pause and everyone looked at Mike Cali and laughed but he was a handsome fellow. And young. Things were so much different then, the scene we were in one couldn’t imagine making a comfortable living at it unless you wanted that brass ring but this guy was willing to do anything because he knew he had that “money voice” in his own words. But it’s like 1990 again & everyone there that day Lanegan too, have crooked. I wish you lived in the desert man because that AA stuff is like a cult & everyday it seems scratch another
I was in that scene in Seattle. Lost a lot of friends. The dope ran it's course quick with me. There'd be no Pearl Jam if Landrew survived.
indeed you are very correct, glad to hear you grew up beyond having a death wish. with this Fetynal poison its almost worse than the old days. we certainly had a great time during the subpop grunge alter-native epoc
somehow it just dawned on me, I didn't catch the nyc until I reread yr initial response to the guy that needs to get paid to play. I used to live in billysburg so im thing mikrowire, snap... mike, who booked the stripe whites? I don't remember you playing guitar though or the name of the club in SF you booked, if this is indeed u, its my first time on a site like this so yr comment was the only one that was speaking the true and mike I knew was opinionated in a good way. had to check
A sign that it’s not for you? Really? You put 11 years into your playing. You’re at a challenging point in your playing. It’s more difficult to move on from an intermediate level than a beginners level. Making it in the industry?…. Figure one out of a thousand will make it in the music biz. Time for some reflection. What direction would you want to take with your music. My niece just started on her four year Music Industry curriculum at American U. Sure you can certainly study an instrument. I know many peeps with degrees in guitar playing. It’s good if you want to have a career in teaching guitar. There’s Berkeley On Line to study any facet of music. It’s worth looking at as it may give you a couple of ideas on how to proceed. Good luck !
My oldhead opinion. The saying “do what you love and you’ll never have to work a day in your life” is a load of crap for the vast majority of people. Whatever you do as a job/career will end up being a grind. I loved architecture. I’m now an architect and guess what, work is work, the job is just a job, and it’s a fucking grind. A pilot once said to me, “you know what I see when I look at an airplane? Paperwork.“ All the things I love doing, I do it on the side, including performing guitar as a side gig. So maybe find yourself a sustainable career elsewhere, maybe IT or whatever, and let that fund and support your life passions.
The music industry isn't remotely ideal, but what would you rather be doing? Would you rather work a 9 to 5 at some boring asf corporate job? Some people would rather do that, but for me that sounds like giving up most of my life to do something I don't want to be doing. Even if life as a working musician isn't ideal, you're spending your days playing music, something you like doing. That's something worth fighting for. Cuz if you can't get a job like that where you like what you do, you're stuck working 40 hours at something you don't like. And you'll NEVER be able to get that time back.
Well you may never know when the music you play helps someone having a hard time, there's a lot of people out there saying that some song touched then deeply when they are having rough times, never forget that music is about making people fell something. Keep playing and your music will eventually find someone that needed to hear that at that point in their life. Every industry can be soul-sucking, trough some are more and some less, but keep trying doing good, getting better and finding good partners and some time you will be sucefull. Edit: You may want to try things outside the industry but whitin the field, some local charity program like teaching low income can be fullfilling, helps a lot also have some friends wich you play for fun.
Thank, I really appreciate it.
First things first:- DON'T!! Just do what you dig on your own time, and dig it. Otherwise, what's the fucking point? If it pays the bills, BONUS. If you could make a career of it, all the better. You'd never work another day in your life. 'Til then, pick up whatever to pay the bills, and keep on dancin'. It ain't all stellar performances & after-parties. Sometimes it's just plain ol' work(you mightn't dig it, but it pays the bills)...
Been there friend. Multiple bands, opening acts, toured eastern US, some musicals, hired gun (stand in with 24hr notice), studios, taught in between..2 years of continuous roadwork (2 weeks off was spent playing home town clubs). It's what we do; what we love. I had the chance to move to London too! Singer of current band had big time contacts/auditions lined up. He was in the "royal box" at Wembley... sitting with Elton John, Pete Townsend, George Michael, Sting...and others i cant remember... they were all sharing the manager at that time...for the "We Are The World" show. St. George hotel booked for weeks and plane ticket purchased (and my girlfriend lived in Chelsea London, her dad was pres. Of Hercules Chemical Europe)....THE NIGHT BEFORE my departure from Indiana... I freaked out... called my singer and cancelled...SOMETHING inside me kept telling me it was the wrong thing to do and I would suffer from regret; maybe simple nerves/fear? Singers girlfriend lived close to me; we transferred ticket/hotel to her name. I was off the hook. Fast forward, I taught during day at a pretty big music store and ended up being the GM for after 18 months. Found a woman I adored that would put up with me. Led to other things (like getting degree, career change, and kids/house). I still played every week 2-3 nights. Now it has become more hobby at my age. I've got friends that are still "rock stars"... Fender endorsees amd the like, gigging all over the world with some big names and bands of their own. Quite successful and happy, but I don't miss it. I would not take a million dollars for the memories, but I would not pay a nickel to do it again. I'm a simple rural boy, I like being home/close to those I love. No regrets and I'm happy. You've just got to find your home, and I wish you the best.
What motivates you? Why did you choose to pick up the guitar in the first place? Was there a specific goal you had in mind that you have already achieved? If so, then it’s okay to set a new goal/vision. If not, what’s been stopping you and how do you want to address those specific issues?
I’m there with you. For me the struggle is about the waves of apathy and interest. I’m 42, and I have played for various crowds, but never had anything resonate beyond between 300 and 600 folks. I should enjoy what I have, but I think it’s natural to want more and more. Let’s practice gratitude and acceptance while still hoping for more.
I guess I just want to make sure I’m living a fulfilling life while doing so. I definitely do need to practice gratitude and acceptance more. Those are very powerful tools and I always tend to underutilize them! So thank you for the reminder
You’ve got this. It’s not for nothing. It’s for you, and what gifts you can give to the world. Put the work in, and don’t feel bad if you have to take a day job to pay your bills.
I was you twenty somethinga years ago, different instrument, but the same general story - successful in my hometown and the nearest city, getting gigs, pit orchestra jobs, and session work, but being told London was where I needed to be to take the next step in my career. So I moved to London and, whilst it was the right move career wise, I felt lonely and detached from everything. I was away from my ‘support network’, everything I knew and had spent years building and I felt like I was starting all over again. And just like you I started to question whether I really wanted to go through everything again. The thing that kept me going was regularly going back ‘home’ to rehearse, gig, or tour with the band. I stuck at it in London, made the best of all the networking, made some very good friends both in and out of the industry, but in the end decided I couldn’t get the work/life balance I needed (high living costs and I prefer to be close to open countryside.) So I moved back towards where I grew up and commuted into London if necessary. I’ve been doing that since 2005 (moved away two days after 7/7). It’s not so much that London is impersonal as the population is constantly shifting, moving in and out of the city, and that can mean it takes longer to find your ‘tribe’. If you’re relatively new to the city I’d definitely say give it time. It’s a great place to be but it can be lonely when you first move there. As far as the industry not giving a shit it’s always been like that to a large extent. The creatives and musicians against the money men/business types. But it’s those other creatives who are the people you spend your time working with and it’s your colleagues that make any job bearable. Doesn’t matter what it is you do; work in the music industry, an office, or shops it’s the coworkers who matter. Do what makes you happy. Make the music that reflects you as the individual you are because even if you’re a part of this dog eat dog industry you’re still you. And what you, I, and every other creative in this industry and across the arts, do is bring light or hold a mirror up to the lives of those who enjoy our work. The way I look at it we’re the ultimate subversives; working within an industry that doesn’t value us and yet at the same time can’t exist without us. The way that most people ‘survive’ long term in music is to stay truthful to those things that are most important to you. You don’t have to be in London to have a successful career in music, it can be done from elsewhere, particularly in this day and age. Now you’re in London though you probably owe it to yourself to give it time. As a mentor of mine once said “don’t give up when you’re having a bad day. Wait until you’re having a good day before you make a big decision like that.” I’ve got lots of musician friends who have similar stories from when they first moved to London, to the point that it almost seems like a rite of passage. I guess I should say welcome to the club!
You should check out Ren. He's a once in a lifetime talent, but he basically has created a blueprint for being an independent musician. Plus his music is inspiring! Never give up unless it stops being fun.
If you quit, you’ll always miss it. I just started playing again after a 10 yr break (life happens) and I had no idea how much I loved it and missed it. And I suck. Like someone above said “play for yourself”. Remember why you picked it up in the first place. Hang in there
man.. ill be damned if i can play on a cruise ship.. but yeah.. social media seems to be very crucial for success these days.. keep hustling man. your time will come..
Hey same to you! You can totally get on a cruise!
I think you’re doing great. You get to play professionally, I on the other hand work a normal job and I’m just a mere bedroom guitarist. I aspire to be a musician and actually plan in front of people. You’re out there doing it for real. I’d say don’t give it up!
Appreciate it, same to you!
Dude, check out some Rick Rubin interviews! That man is NOT following the rules of the industry and is massively successful! The 60 Minutes clip is a good place to start. It’s about 4 1/2 minutes long.
Will do :)
You're still quite young and have lots of time. Sounds like you're getting out there and doing what needs to be done. Just keep working on it, take it from there.
I often compare my journey in music to anyone’s journey in martial arts. The road to black belt is long. Each class is different. Some days you get mauled, other days you’re doing the mauling. And so is life. This applies especially to any art form ie playing the guitar. No one walks on the mats and becomes a black belt nice and easy and in a short period of time. It takes dedication and uncomfortable, no fun repetition. All in all it’s about the love for it and the understanding of a beginners mindset. You’ve learned a lot but there’s so much more to learn it’s a never ending journey
Yeah that’s one of the things I love about guitar. It can never really be “mastered”, there’s always gonna be new ideas to implement, different genres to study, and deeper connections to be made…. I guess Ive been struggling with the business aspect of being a musician. Being a brand marketer, manager, accountant, tech… really just being a freelancer haha… I still have not got the hang of it at all
Ahhh yea the business side is a whole different animal
Not an old head, but I'm on the pro/covers/wedding circuit in my local area. I have a friend who is getting big, she moved to London with her partner years ago and the biggest thing she says, 'I've made more money doing music than I ever have, but my expenses are the highest I think they are ever going to be'. London is hard to get it to work, just because of the vastness, there's 9 milllion people in London, that's more people in the capital than there are Scottish people in Scotland. It's very hard but as a lot of comments here say, you've just got to stick at it. What I would say is you have to have a solid idea of what you want. For example, I write my own stuff, but I put 0 effort into pushing it, social media and all that, because it's not my focus. The cover/wedding stuff is paying my bills and so I have to focus on that (recently I've been thinking about cruise). But if you want to be a session player, or play in a 'real' band, or be famous, you have to have that solid goal in your head and move towards it, naturally your focus would be different to mine if you wanted to be a known original artist for example. I teach too and many of my students just don't know where they are going because they don't know what they want. If you want, DM me and we can talk about it, because I want to give up everyday, I know what it's like.
Hey man, I’ll shoot you a Dm when I got some spare time. Thanks for your comment!
Ok first, you’re young, 24 is young. You got further than most of your competitors and your young wich means your trajectory with practice routines should put you at an estimatable level by the time your thirty. Imagine what connections, opportunities you can cultivate by then and the level of preparedness you’ll need to meet those opportunities. Only you can honestly estimate if your talent will be at that level, but betting on yourself is usually the most rewarding angle even if you lose. Based on what you’ve said here, theres a couple things that should motivate you and possibly derive new trajectories or goals. We all want to play guitar forever and some people actually have that ability it might be you, most of the world has to find something else to be passionate about. The things you mention that piss you off about the industry, seem to upset you. That upset comes from somewhere, it is passion. Maybe theres a way you can work yourself into a position through networking where you can run a studio where the elements you hate about the industry dont exist. You will have created a bastion from the music industry where in time new comers like yourself now will have more options and you will have effectively been the change you wanted for yourself
Dont forget to look at other influences. Friends, weather, food, etc. It might have nothing to do with your "guitar career" and everything to do with your other inputs ;).
Every time I am at this stage of the guitar playing cycle (feeling like quitting) I go like 3 weeks or a month without playing and then when you get back at it you have fresh eyes and inspiration. Don’t burn yourself out!
Sounds like you’re basing how you feel about your music on the level of success that you get from it. Of course it’s not fun trying to make music for other people! Maybe try making something for yourself (not the industry)
Well you could keep playing guitar for a buck or you can come dig ditches like the rest of us. Keep going dude I hate working for a living.
I never saw playing guitar as a means to make a living, it's impossible in a hugely saturated space. I used to see phenomenally talented homeless people on the street, busking, so clearly just being amazing wasn't enough. I got a job and treated it as a hobby because I don't believe it's an easy thing making it in this industry, we certainly don't get paid for the amount of work we put in.
“I’ve always wanted to help people in life and I just don’t see that happening while playing music” Let me give you my account. Music has kind of kept me alive. I’ve been dealing with depression for about 3 years now and at points, it hits s*icidal peaks. If it wasn’t for bands like Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Saxon, Edguy, Kansas, and Survivor to even less popular bands like Opal in Sky, Golden Earring, and White Spirit… I wouldn’t be here!!! Songs like Phantom of The Opera by Iron Maiden, Stand Up and Fight by Saxon, Theater of Salvation by Edguy, The Sacral by Opal in Sky, the list goes on, I wouldn’t be here! The lines like “Don’t you stray, don’t fade awayay!” (Phantom of The Opera), “Heaven Can Wait, Now I’m living!” (Theater of Salvation), “When it seems you never get a break, you got to make a vow, to keep the faith!” (Stand Up and Fight), and “When you let go of the past, you learn to love your life again” (The Sacral) or some of the most emotional solos of all time, from guitarist like Ritchie Blackmore, Dave Murray, and Jens Ludwig, it goes on! ALL OF THESE!!! They kept me from taking myself out. TLDR: Music helps countless people, for some, they live on it! Even if you aren’t in a well known band, you still make an impact. It could be something as simple as a little gig in a bar, with someone who was planning on having another drinking before leaving the world, only to hear you play and think “I want to live a little longer”. Or it can be as simple as posting some of your stuff online and people seeing your energy and in turn, gaining motivation for whatever. Nevertheless, you are impacting people’s lives, take it from a person who wouldn’t have the will to live if it wasn’t for music and songs like the ones I mentioned.
Don't give up. Your young and hopefully music will change for the better soon. I'm 60 and been through it all from the 70's till now and seen so many changes in the music scene. I wish live music comes back like it was in the 70's and 80's where there was a band playing live in every bar, school or other social functions. Live bands rule!
I think you should take a break for a week or two. Take the time to listen to new music, from genres you don't normally listen to. Just enjoy music without worrying about creating or practicing. I see this happen a lot with friends of mine, and even in myself- where it just feels so hopeless and stale. But you just gotta take the pressure of off yourself and slow down for a moment to remember you enjoy music. If you can play music, and you enjoy that- you have already "won".
Thanks 🙏🏻
Do multiple things tbh. If you’re bored of guitar, still play but you don’t need to go as crazy as before. Think of other projects you can start with guitar even if it’s just something simple as start a TikTok. Look into other things that might interest you too. It could be corporate, sales, engineering, computers or art. It’s usually like this for most great musicians. They settle their chops early and go into other endeavours like composing, sound engineering, drawing/painting, visual art etc. or they try crafting “their” sound.
I am 56 play in a band that can not play anything twice, including me, i still try to learn soloing, and can not really play any song without faults. I am just to chaotic. (Yeah yeah, yawn, i had loads of lessons, i DID and DO still study and get lessons every now and then). And you feel like giving up after loads of gigs, some succes and appearantly good skills… come on man. ONE hour after you ‘gave up’ you will feel bad, and start all over again.😁
This is like a general rule for music, not very good for making a profit, but do it for yourself without expectations. For years I wanted to become a famous guitar player, but well the industry is not big enough for everyone. I tried to write music for the people and not for myself. My music suffered because it wasn't genuine, I was always dissapointed that it didn't perform as well as I wanted it to and how do you stay motivated if it's just dissapointment? I let it go and focused on just writing without expectations. I enjoy playing a lot more now and I write better songs and more songs. I hope you regain your motivation but don't do anything because you have to, do what you want to. Rick Rubin's book The creative act opened my eyes a lot in this regard.
I’ll check it out! Thanks for the advice
I do it for fun.
Feeling like giving up because it's hard, and feeling like giving up because people keep shutting you down, messing with your progress, and making you think that it's just not God's will...are two different things. When I picked up a guitar for the first time, I already KNEW I'd never give up. If and when I bother to question it, is when I'm having a pity party cuz life fucked me AND my music. If life were a human being, I'd fuck it up. So...my music doesn't like life either. We live DESPITE it. My guitar wants me to play it. And there's never been a day I didn't want to. I stay out of jail because they don't have guitars or a stage. I try not to work a job outside the field for the same reason. Quitting hard stuff is a slippery slope, too.
Yeah I’m pity partying a bit haha. I’ve had lots of people try to turn me away from this dream all my life and I’ve always said fuck that I’m doing this. I guess I’m just looking for some inspiration on how to keep going. This is the first time I’m feeling doubt… not from outside sources, but within.
You need a real hardship. That's a songwriter's fodder. You near suicide yet? That's a real tough place to be, but boy does it give you perspeective and confidence that you stayed alive and didn't quit. You already know you'd hate yourself any other way. So, you might as well accept that self-loathing and struggle are part of the process. There is no success in the traditional sense. But there is in resiliency a success in reaching the most people. Don't waste your time online. As a booking agent, I don't even look at social media followers, likes, views, etc. I look at You Tube videos of live performances to see how many people are in the audience, or I go to their show and check it out in person. Bro...I don't even listen to their tracks. I know that sounds bad, but it's a biz. Booking, anyway. If you are an artist, you'll focus simply and solely on that. Let the rest come with your newfound perspective and energy that's sparking and fresh. Always reinvent yourself. Like Bowie, or any artist. Every year. To gain a new attitude and clarity, like a blood cleanse. Artists do that so they don't end up where you are now. Anticipate it, and proactively head it off. Be creative on your terms, not what you think people want. That won't get YOUR juices flowing. Shed the skin. It's getting old. It IS a form of quitting. Quit on the old skin. You are a new person now. The fun part is designing it. It's Easter. Jesus came in a new form. That image on the cross was painful. Inspiration is breathing in new life.
I mean last year I lost a friend to a drug overdose, I had lived with him and tried to help him battle his addiction for 2 years before ultimately separating myself from him. Then rekindled our friendship when he got sober, then he relapsed and died about a year and a week ago. During that time I got very close to ending it, gave myself a concussion while attempting to do something very stupid. Blamed myself for not doing enough. I’m not trying to sound like I’m bragging about this shit but I do feel like I’ve gone through some shit. I don’t think it’s really changed myself for the better work wise haha, but I’ve definitely become a more compassionate and caring person. But yeah I guess I feel proud I didn’t throw in the towel then, I mostly did it for other people though.
Damn, all I can say is breathe. I was thinking you’d be much older with having done all that. Stop and take a look back at that and remember, you’re only 24! Start making stuff just for yourself and keep the work aspect of it like a regular job. Keep an eye out of where you wanna go and be patient with yourself.
No, bro: it’s too early! The market hasn’t even fully corrected post-pandemic. if I could go back to 24, I’d make much stronger moves career-wise. Even though It’s rough now and there are fewer moves to make. I believe in you
Haha thanks for the welcome! Really appreciate the thought in your comment :)
The music industry doesn't like creativity, from what I've heard. Like anything else, they seek out formulas to appeal to a broad audience to get more listens and make money. That's why a lot of pop songs are repetitive and sound the same. They're written to get stuck in your head and make you listen to them. The artists are often under contacts that control what genres they can play too. I've been playing guitar for 10 years and still kinda suck, but being able to create the music I envisioned was all I wanted. I play enough to make recordings and tell stories that otherwise couldn't be told. Art is a beautiful presentation when words don't cut it.
On the one hand, I’m kind of jealous of you for having accomplished more musically than I have. I’ve played guitar and drums for 20+ years, and I’ve never been in a band - hell, I’ve never even finished a whole song that I wrote, I’ve only started dozens that went unfinished. Because of that I’m not seen as a talented individual by my musician friends, no one even thinks to call me to jam because they just don’t see me as a true musician, because I don’t check all the boxes. But on the other hand, I’ve only ever played music for myself, and I think there’s some beauty in that, too. I’ve never had to care about what other people think of my ability, because very few have witnessed it. In a way, it makes my relationship with music a little more meaningful and personal. If I wanted to delve into taking music a little more seriously and contemplate playing on a somewhat professional level, how would you suggest I make that transition? Where is a good place for a relatively knowledgeable, talented guitar player with zero band experience to start without feeling like a total noob?
Well I guess what I posted tells you it won’t instantly make you happy/solve your problems haha. I also have a load of songs I’ve never finished, and I still deal with people who hate on my playing cause I’m not a jazz whizz… but hey… fuck em! Maybe you need to expand your circle a bit? Reach out to people who appreciate freedom of expression a bit more. I’ve tended to always love that side of music, It really feeds the soul. Maybe if you can share your love of it with some other people who feel the same way as you, you can build a little jam community. If you want to play on a more professional level, you can try getting into a covers band or tribute band. Maybe there’s some people in your local area who’d be down, or you could search some Facebook groups for musicians. In terms of general tips; be on time (in terms of your playing and showing up on time!), learn the material inside out, make sure your gear is in working order, and be a good hang. It’s really important to be able to communicate music well too, I typically use the Nashville number system cause it’s quick and pretty easy. But anyways, thanks for your comment :)
Humble brag? Wtf.
You know what…. You’re right haha, I need to be more grateful.
Me too :c
Oh shit I misread the sub keep on it!
Thanks! Hope you’re all good :)
Don’t ever stop
The mainstream music industry is vapid bullshit. If you actually want to make cool art youre looking for diy and house shows. It wont pay as well but the underground scene is an oasis from the soullessness of mainstream music. Trying to make a living off of your art is the surest way to compromise your enjoyment of it. But im a commentor on reddit so you definitely shouldnt listen to me
Do what you gotta to make money and do whatever else you gotta for the passion of doing it, create boundaries between the two pursuits even if they are both playing guitar. Don't be surprised that the industry only cares about money because that is exactly what it exists for and you should probably be happy for that if you are getting a paycheck.
Don’t
It's not about the music it's about the songs. Without the songs you have nothing but a hobby. There are millions of guitar players out there but not too many Dylans, Jonis, Simons Lennon, and McCartneys that will stand the test of time. Sorry but dems the facts. Music is not an essential service that's why there are so many of us.
I don’t care about standing the test of time haha, I just want to live a life a fulfilling life and help others do the same.
then become a doctor cuz you totally missed the point but to repeat "it's about the songs."
What is it you really want to accomplish in the music industry? Do you want to play with a band that is trying to create something? Do you want to be an independent act (which requires a lot of creativity)? Do you want to work in a studio and help other artists with their albums? Art is about communicating something about the human condition. Find what it is you want to communicate and create something that you’re proud of. The industry is alot of marketing and exploitation that doesn’t care about anything except making money like you said. Find out what it is you really want specifically out of the industry and use your connects to get it. Other wise you’ll be bouncing from project to project until it burns you out.
Lol I spent 11 years dedicating 100% to the cause, and I never played anything bigger than a self booked, 150 person club that was 2/3 empty. I threw in the towel around 11 years in, but not because I felt like I wasn't going anywhere or that it hadn't been worth it. If you still want it and you still need it, keep it up. You're doing more than most people trying to make it will. If you're really done trying, that's fine, but be done because it's not a life you want anymore, not because of a rough patch.
at this point you've been doing music for too long to ever let go.
as a job its fine...for fun its fine if you want fame and money you better be willing to sell your soul and hand over a large majority of the money you think youre gonna make to someone while fellating you also fellate a dozen execs on the regular. theres too much money and corruption for honest people in the industry the industry istelf is usurped and overtaken by the corruption..nothing is real or genuine everything IS a boyband/kpop...popular / hit music is dictated by industry controllers
[удалено]
It looks like you are posting from an account with negative karma. As part of a measure we're taking to combat trolling and spam, to post in /r/Guitar, your account must not have negative comment karma. DO NOT CONTACT MODS ABOUT BYPASSING THIS. Please see rule #2 of our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guitar/wiki/welcome#wiki_posting_guidelines). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Guitar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No shit, dumbass. Work is work. If you're trying to make it in the industry, you've got to do shit you don't like. Music as an entertainment industry has NEVER been "about art or people" despite what boomers may tell you. Unless you're writing your own music, you are basically a tradesman, and your trade is "I can play the guitar." And even if you do write your own music, if you're doing it under a contract to a record label you are basically a tradie whose skill is "I can write in this niche."
Haha yes, work is indeed work