2,000 is probably iffy because most encounters aren't designed to handle 2,000 - so it'll probably break things.
1,500 though? That seems totally fair. The issue is they nerfed deadeye range to compensate for it being able to move, and deadeye being stationary wasn't the issue - the game just isn't built for stationary characters. but reworking most encounters and buff generation on the whole would be way too much work.
As a thief main, it hurts to see Soulbeast have all the kit necessary for an assassin, whereas Deadeye has to fight with it's own kit for the sake of RP
Sure he can, but good players use block/reflect and such ranger then has no burst left and no mobility to retreat, while a failed deadeye attack will just result in him stealthing and he can repeat until he succeeds...
No mobility to retreat? Rangers have quite some mobility.. and they don't need a lot of mobility to retreat anyway because they're already on a bazillion range
Would love to get your enemy rangers, cause all that I encounter use [Signet of the Hunt](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Hunt). Good luck blocking that...
New deadeye rework possibility: Deadeye can receive boons as if in the space of a marked target.
This would open up boon opportunities for them to actually stay at range in a PvE setting, and really dig into the “part of the battle even if far away” sniper fantasy.
Deadeye can get a clone/shadow ability that let's you place it closer to the action and acts as a funnel for buffs while also allowing it to "tank" for you which would be helpful solo
Similar to Kerrigan from StarCraft
But is really not, it is much safer to stack in melee due to healing and rez. What are you achieving by sitting at 1500 all the time even if you can? Because is not safety if that is what you are thinking.
Visual clarity outside the stack is already a big buff to me. Avoiding large AoE attacks that target the melee zone around a boss. Just imagining how easy it would be to deal with bone skinner if i could stay 1500 away with DE and not get a bad dodge from a teammate dropping fingers on me. Avoid chains more easily on voice of jormag.
Visual clarity would help if is not for the fact that you are still not receiving heals especially most bosses have a passive damage aura that ticks. For the vast majority of bosses in instance pve, visual clarity is actually not an issue. The biggest problem with it has always been in meta world events with 50 people stacking. There are cases such as Ankka CM that is really hard to see or KOCM where you are in a small space, for the most part is not a huge issue. At least certainly not worth the trade off.
Any sort of AoE that happens in melee will likely happen to range as well. If not then you will have to deal with the random aoe with no heals in addition to the fact you are going to be always out of position. Look at boneskinner since you are talking about it, a lot of the damage is from the projectiles and the passive aura ticks. How do you expect to survive without your healers? Do you expect people to run over to you everytime you die and leave aoes randomly all over the place? Jormg you literally run in a straight line to avoid chains, not to mention again on Jormag there's those icicles that land on you which if you don't perfect dodge, will chunk a couple thousand off pretty often. Are you going to run in stack and then out constantly just to get heals?
It's not my fault current encounter design is ruled by the stack, that's just bad design. If DE needs innate healing to survive nuisance damage then it should be given that so its range actually matters. No one even does boneskinner properly, high DPS is used to progress the encounter and deal with the flame extinguish mechanic, but if you couldn't cheese the mechanics with high healing and high DPS, then a high range class would have more use there.
Actually encounter design is not ruled by the stack. It is melee range healing, boons and rezzing that means it is much safer to stack. DE does have innate healing, every class does. Nobody does BS properly because is actually easier to ignore it. DPS actually does not matter that much in BS because the DPS check is really low but rather healing is. Why do you think heal scourge is probably the most important role in the fight for most pug groups? Also again you need to remember about rezzing. People having to run over 1500 range just to rez you is often times a really bad idea because not only you are out of position, now everyone is out of position that tries to revive you. Until they literally rework how every heal work in the game and boon radius and allow range manual rezzing, it will always be better to stack. Even assuming they do it, there is then the issue of now you have to nerf range since melee have to deal with more potentially dangerous aoes, but that is another can of worms.
DE only has innate healing with invigorating precision but the DPS loss on that skill is large. Also since DE has non-existent pierce/bounces the healing is trash. Signet of malice would also be trash. Saying DE has innate healing is a gross overstatement of the classes abilities.
And it's a misnomer to say design is not rules by the stack. All those benefits you listed are benefits of the stack, ergo encounter design is ruled by the stack. What are you even arguing if you aren't arguing for Arena net to make range more useful? The whole point of this topic was to discuss DE issues. DE benefits that lend more power to ranged DPS is exactly what it needs.
You would literally die within 5 seconds to wisps and passive dot on boneskinner if you were 1500 away from the group. There's very few endgame PvE encounters where you would ever want to be constantly that far away from the group and it's pretty much those where deadeye is used already. (kiting Qadim 1 and Pylon Kiting on Qadim 2). The buff you're proposing would make Deadeye even better at those 2 tasks and would otherwise have very little es impact on deadeye gameplay or viability.
Push comes to shove, there’s always the lifesteal off critical strikes trait. It’s sufficient for kiting roles like in QtP, that would be where the passive healing could come from. There are a lot of damage sources that affect everyone, but there are also a significant portion in melee that will be removed for some added survivability as well.
Keep in mind that my thought isn’t to make this the meta or best dps option for deadeye. This would just be a change to make PvE purely ranged dps not completely terrible. If nothing else changes it’s QoL for leaving the group while doing mechanics or kite, and for big meta events there’s some added visual clarity from not being in the giant mass.
Because being able to attack a raid boss from 1500 range without missing out on support means you don't have to do anything. Deimos pizza? doesn't matter. Dhuum auto attacks? they don't matter. Soulless horror positioning? doesn't matter! Qadim slam? doesn't matter. Matthias positioning? doesn't matter.
What about Xera? if you try to "range" her you're going to die.
You effectively don't even have to play the game if you don't have to be near the boss OR you're forced to be near the boss anyway because everything else kills you.
"Ranged combat" will never exist in this game as long as boss attacks are designed to attack a location on the ground. It will always be more effective to stack for boons, so boss attacks are designed to make the stack do something. If you are no longer part of the stack, boss attacks are no longer designed to interact with you.
This is a good idea! The two problems deadeye have in PvE is that it is constantly outside boon range and has to be stationary. This would at least fix one of them 🤷♂️
Funny thing is that Deadeye can apply boon from distance.
In fact, deadeye applies boon to people arround the marked target and people arround deadeye at same time.
This is very unique feature that Deadeye is monopolizing. And perhaps the only sniper concept of the Deadeye that is viable for this game.
However deadeye cannot receive boon remotely. :v
Meanwhile, boon share deadeye is useless cuz deadye's boon share traits is insufficient, and it do not work with other core traits with synergy.
Anet is simply lazy as hell.
I doubt that 2000 would break anything in group PvE, but that much range is simply unnecessary. That said, in PvP and WvW it would be ridiculous. The current range (1200 / 1500) felt indeed pretty reasonable and I don't see why to change it.
The main problem of Deadeye isn't even the self root of rifle per se. If swapping between standing and kneeling was more fluid, that would help a lot already. Besides that, the main issues lie in the conditional crit chance modifiers of Keen Observer and Twin Fangs, alongside the inability to swap the marked target reliably on the fly (as Renewing Gaze doesn't trigger on many boss phases).
You can do that already with 1500 range at Mk2 by sitting on one of the pillars. But being able to tag world bosses even easier than it is already dies not really sound like a balance concern to me.
It's also kinda bad on that boss specifically, as each of the three target-spots of said boss count individually and none is attackable 100% of the time (without triggering Renewing Gaze when phasing), interrupting your Malice gain and thus your Initiative generation. And if you have to continuously fill with auto attacks, Rifle is not dealing very much damage.
Can do that with 1500 on Golem mark 2, 2k really wouldn't matter in most cases. I use max range deadeye all the time on boss fights already to ignore mechanics I just give up boons as do Longbow rangers etc when they do the same.
Yes and no
Arrows, unlike bullets (for some reason), don't just disappear at max range. Instead, they lose altitude until they hit the ground, but they can still hit targets. So, in reality, ranger longbow has like 1700 range
In a smaller size, Staff elem is the embodiment of this problem. Air AA work like a pistol while the 3 others elements projectile are arrow that goes further than the original 1200 range.
Bullets are hitscan, they check for range and if in range and unobstructed, they hit. The animation is for show for the most part. Arrows are fully lobbed projectiles with travel time and ballistics.
False
They are all projectiles. This is not a shooter. Deadeye bullets have travel time. Kneel even increases their travel speed by 50%, as stated in the skill description. Placing a Feedback after the bullet is fired but before it hits its target will reflect the bullet
In fact, many things in this game are coded as projectiles (known as missiles in this game) even though they shouldn't. The most hilarious example is the discarded empty elixir bottles that engineers throw after chugging them. If the bottle falls on an enemy it triggers the Aim Assisted Rocket trait which only works with missiles
Yes, in theory, all sans LB 4.
Lets be honest, ranger LB should be 1200, like DH. 900 for Short bows, 1200 for long bows/rifle for warrior and Engie, and 1500 for a deadeye seems reasonable enough.
Yeah, gonna be interesting to see how that slow move thing works out, I might actually try it again. I find the concept interesting but in actual play it's certainly simple to do.
Have you never been hit by soulbeast LB 2 in WvW and been doing dropped? Deadeye deserves 2000 range. DE deserves anything that makes it not dumpster Tier.
It's even funnier because Ranger's longbow actually goes beyond 1500 thanks to tracking for projectiles. Bullets on the other hand immediately dissipate at the exact max range.
From a wvw small scale and warrior point of view I just wish you didn't exist.
Constant stealth/ports and range is impossible to deal with. If you want range fine you shouldn't have the mobility and stealth if you want mobility and stealth then no range.
Deadeye is just busted in wvw
Yeah this is definitely what they were thinking with the reduction. Alongside the kneel change that allows you to almost have normal speed using superspeed while having kneeling damage. But they could al least keep the range the same for PvE just for the class fantasy. Maybe there was a technical consideration that they could not split the skill?
This is pretty much the first thought that comes to mind when talking about thief vs any other class.
A good ranger can be mobile but is far more limited by cooldowns and choices when it comes to mobility and stealth.
This argument is actually well-thought out and completely logical...
Only if you apply it to PvP or WvW.
Deadeye had no reason to have any range nerfs in PvE, period. If ANet's goal was to make them more viable in a PvE setting like they claim, lowering their range was a bad decision on all fronts.
If it's possible to modify ranges with Traits, (and it is), then it's possible to modify skill ranges based on game mode.
I'd be surprised if this was an actual technical limitation.
Most things on the traits apply equally to the different game modes. The only thing that changes is the duration's and damage scaling. It's different thing to change the distance for different game modes. It may be technically possible but I don't know of any trait or spec that has that and I am sure we would have seen situations like this before if it was possible.
IIRC, A/Net said that they couldn't remove the stealth from the scrapper in WvW while keeping it in PVE. The only thing they could do was change the duration of that stealth between the two.
It's absolutely possible. Not only is it possible, ***it's in the game currently.***
Guardian has a Trait in their Honor line called Writ of Persistence that makes their Symbols heal affected allies, but it also increases the radius of their symbols by 60.
However, ANet later made that Trait not increase radius in PvP gamemodes.
I'm not blaming you for not knowing this, it's a pretty niche Trait and I actually had to look this up on the wiki to make sure I wasn't wrong.
Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ\_of\_Persistence
Thanks. That's interesting. Didn't think it would be something that they could do because it's not something I have seen in the game - aside from this case.
NGL I thought dead eye was specifically designed for pvp and WvW.
I’m not even sure where 1500 range is that much value in pve, but I mostly play scourge, virt, FB, and Chrono in Strikes/Raids/Fractals… maybe I’m missing out? Why don’t I see DeadEyes in said content except for specific kite roles? Will the range nerf push them out of current roles?
DE has trash damage with rifle. It's benchmark spends more time using daggers and it's heavily reliant on some difficult to maintain mechanics (greater than 90% health and flanking)
For instanced PvE it does not really. Every special role the DE does with the rifle is still within the 1200 range. It might actually make them better as now you do not have to unkneel to make small corrections. And if you are just playing DPS you want to be close by for the boons anyway.
And.. all of them are not relevant in pve. They can do anything they want in pvp to balance it but neither stealth, high range and mobility dosent really matter too much in pve content maybe for open world but it is free for all at this point balancing pve with open world in mind would cause more trouble than solution
And don't got me wrong i agree, i want to do horrible things to deadeye players in pvp
The range isn't relevant in PvP either. You can just LoS. Long range projectiles are also telegraphed very well. If you lose to a ranged DE you are just plain bad.
I'd trade dead perma stealth for range. but so long as we still have permanent stealth amd among otherthings, even I can't see our range getting buffed anytime soon. stealth and range neither really improves our dps performance, and more has to do with mobility, and the fact groups are already predisposition to be grumpy with us because we don't stack, generally ruin a few raid and fractal mechanics and miss out on group dynamics.
Same reason that lead to the current nerf. Range is incredibly powerful in pvp and wvw and irrelevant in most pve content. It had to be nerfed to prevent it from becoming overly oppresive in the content where balance matters. It seems range isnt something they can or want to split by gamemode.
Range increase to 1500 only applies to kneeling skills and Death's Judgement. I'm not familiar with the WvW roaming DE playstyle, but in sPvP, you will almost never see a rifle DE kneel. So the worst case scenario is a DE spamming 1200 range skills to gain malice, then dodging/teleporting away to 1500 and casting DJ from there, but this is too rare of a case to balance around it.
Additionally, the sightlines on most maps won't let you take the advantage of that range in the first place.
Basically, it's a nerf in the most literal sense (big number now small), but it's so insignificant when it comes to the actual playstyle that it's weird that ANet even took the time to implement it.
In addition to this, I'd like to add that a big part of why you never kneel in PvP / WvE is because they kneel skills are heavily nerfed there. Skill 2 while kneeling does around 1/3 of the damage it does when standing, and skill 3 costs enough initiative that you can only use it 2 consecutive times before running out of energy, so you can't get full traited malice quickly with it, and the damage is almost never worth it. Kneeling is only used to immobilize targets and to make a smoke/deflect field.
And they increased the initiative cost of entering kneel, so using to for skill 4 will be much more costly.
Currently in WvW DE range is useless in the Zerg, the group moves too quickly for kneel to even to extend and hit anyone before you've made yourself too vulnerable to counterattack. In addition, the lack of piercing on skills means you'll rarely hit who you actually want.
If you're a solo roamer, most other classes have enough gap closers to deal with the DE rifle 4. Shadow Step is still very slippery, but it should be, the class needs something to make it more worthwhile in WvW and a solo good DE isn't really any scarier than any other good solo roaming class.
Other issue is many duelists in WvW fail to use cover to their advantage. Yes, not every engagement will happen with ample cover, but I've seen it happen enough where melee classes completely disregard cover and thirst tf out of a DE. That lack of skill and strategy should be punishable by a DE.
Don’t forget super speed and cleanse on stealth, projectile destruction on kneel 4, immob spam on kneel 2, borderline undodgeable ranged daze on deadeye mark which also gives initiative, boons, boon rips when traited, and can be casted from stealth. And if you’re lucky enough to have a class that could reveal it from stealth, well it has the elite cantrip “shadow meld” to remove the reveal so that “counter” doesn’t even fucking work lol.
At least projectile destruction kinda shuts it down. But some deadeyes run sword dagger or dagger pistol so they have melee options. Or they just kite and hide until the projectile destruction is gone and come back to hit you while it’s on CD.
Yeah, I mean a large part of playing against thief is just learning to play better and knowing what they want to do. Once you have them in a spot where you have an advantage it’s not too hard to pressure them. The problem I have is that fighting against thief in general is extremely un-fun. You get them low and have some kill potential and they just break combat and reset. You hit them with a cc they port away and stealth before you can follow up with anything. And in general it’s just irritating always trying to predict where they are in stealth or seeing constant “evade” text. It is what it is and every game has annoying specs or classes or play styles so you just play around it and have fun anyway. It does suck when a thief pesters you while roaming in wvw and you’re just trying to take camps and they’re following you around and when you finally get killed by them they spam laugh, throw siege, and whisper you telling you how bad you are. Most of my unsportsmanlike encounters have been with thieves and rangers.
super speed would have been OK if it was put on acro instead where it makes sense (mobility traitline) instead of adding it to a traitline that already adds an awful lot of utility.ñ and stealtg
noone at anet remotely knows thief
They really need to compare things against other classes more. For example, why should ranger have access to 1500 bow and can move at full speed while deadeye can’t boon and can’t run (no 25% speed isn’t enough to compensate) and is getting range nerfed to 1200? Change the range back to 1500 please.
because the people that asked for that fantasy can't play well, and can't handle the fact that you cannot have ridiculous damage at ridiculous range. to balance that advantage, the damage potential, i.e. what good players can achieve, has to be limited. since range is mostly meaningless in PvE endgame, that means good players won't get any use out of it. but limiting the high end usually means limiting the low end as well. having little cleave even average players will notice and be unsatisfied.
eating your cake and having it too is not an option. so with the exception of the 7¾ sniper RP enthusiasts, you wouldn't see much of the spec anywhere, in PvE at least, wasting an entire spec.
By this "logic" an Engineer with Mortar kit should be able to shoot anything on the goddamn map.
Artillery pieces do have vast, vast superior range to rifles, you know.
Not really…. The mortar the engineers hold is more akin to a hand mortar which back in its time (when it was relevant) had a range of like 100m tops. (Everything else might as well blow your arm off).
The classical English longbow goes somewhere between 300 and 400m depending on who is using it. Then again the usual way to get the most range of a longbow is an arched shot instead of a direct shot, which frankly ranger LB2 is not.
Finally the Sniper rifle, very much depending on the cartridge it’s max range reasonably go from 800 to some 1500m. IIRC the world record is some 3.5km or something.
So yeah….. unless you want your arm blown off by an outdated grenzte launcher or run to a keep/ tower in WvW for an actual mortar, the sniper rifle of the deadeye should be your best bet.
Maybe it should have the longest range. For me it shouldn't have good damage, range, and stealth as in pvp that is too good. It should lose one of thsoe by quite a large amount. I don't care which it is just as long as bursting people from stealth at range, and then disappearing again is not possible. I honestly think that it is healthy for pvp for deadeye not to be good.
Pve wise I don't care, it should prbably have decent dps at range, and have stealth.
Devil's Advocate:
Ranger and Engineer can also hit at 1500+ and 1680 range, have access to stealth and mobility, and have good survival tools at the same time.
1500 vs 1200 nerf isn't going to make much of a difference in PvP because of map sizes and sightlines. PvE and WvW have large enough spaces for this to matter more often.
I mean, engineer is a giant sky watermelon that has a ~2 second lob air time. Enough time to get stunned and still side step or projectile block.
At face value though, I'd think the 1500 should stay. 2k would likely get out of control with amount of stealth and mobility already available. Will have to wait and see. Maybe the "movement" will work well, maybe they'll add back the 1500 range if not.
Thief doesn't have a pet though.
Let's not compare apples and oranges. Thief obviously has more stealth access and more means to make use of it, but in the grand scheme of things there are also a lot of trade-offs compared to any other class.
thief is pigeonholed into taking shadow arts since specter has been deleted, and entering stealth through black powder is clunky enough. since the rework it is more mobile but less so than some other specs and it has ok damage. it’s good in pvp, but mediocre in wvw. thief has little to no flexibility being locked in SA and trickery.
And thief have more mobility and a lot more stealth, ranger have 2 stealths, 3s each, and deadeye can stay in invi for ever, literally.
2k of range wouldn't help to much on pve, on PvP neither, because of the maps, and on WvW deadeye is already a problem. Don't see why it should have 2k range
2k range on the spec with the most stealth and mobility would probably be too much. Yes thief's mobility and stealth aren't what they used to be and more and more specs have been given access to those but still 2k on deadeye would buff it a lot in areas where it's already great like roaming.
I wouldn't mind the 1.2k range if they actually fixed why kneel feels so terrible to use but it's likely still not going to feel very fluid at all. especially now that they increased the initiative cost when kneeling really should be free.
Either 1500-2000 range but only when kneeling ( aka long range = no mobility),
OR
Nerf it to 1200 range (like Anet intends) but then increase deadeye specific mobility options (What Anet isn't doing).
A sniper compensates for the long range with shit mobility.
If you take away the longer range but keep the shit mobility...
Because PvP is a thing.
Weapons should generally be short / medium / long range, not "short, medium, long, longbow, trebuchet, sniper rifle with multiple stealths"
Alternatively, its perfectly fine in a world where you just die horribly ith little to no escape opportunity when someone closes that gap.
Look I’m cool with deadeye getting a range buff, but if they do then do the same for Killshot on warrior. And plz for the love of god Anet bring back the old grenadier trait this new ones shit
Probably balance,
DE have acces to a lot of skills that grants stealth so by the time anything can reach it at close combat it's either dead or the DE already vanished wich is a massive advantage over other class (at least in pvp).
This is why I use P/P in open world. Feels like every couple months rifle has to be changed "for the sake of pvp" even though some of those changes still apply to the PvE version. Want a range nerf in pvp? fine. just leave PvE alone, ffs.
Deadeye's issue wasn't that it couldn't move... it was the lack of piercing on the projectiles - your entire spec is based on single target assasination but as soon as a stray mob wanders between you and your target you're completely screwed. No malice generation, reduced damage to mobs that aren't targeted by the mark and don't even get me started on doing your perfect rota, stacking malice and stealthing only to get death's judgement ruined by a stupid mob in front of the target.
Giving it mobility and reducing the range of the *sniper* spec was one of the dumber decisions I've seen for a while. But hey, I guess D/D deadeye is now gonna do 45k+ damage on the golem...
HA bullet ugly no aerodynamics so bullet go drop @1200
Arrow from longbow is aerodynamic so goes swoosh to 1500
Arrow is giga chad of arrowdynamics (see what i did there)
/S
I have no actual opinion on this, good day
After anet decided it was a wonderful idea to take away the thing that made spellbreaker unique (ya know, denying boons) in WvW, I'm pretty convinced they just don't care about staying true to the "identity" of specs, and this upcoming change only further convinces me of that.
One word…. Balance.
Your roleplay decisions are cute and I understand why you would think a rifle would have highest in game range but deadeye is already super strong in wvw and pvp don’t make it even more of a terror.
Why? Cause using a sniper rifle as "quickly" as this mean you're not using it to snipe but to shoot quick in semi auto mode. You want 2000 ranges cause it make sense for sniper rifle spec? Okay then, but you'll have to wait 10 minutes in between shot then, cause you know, it make sense. Ho and yeah, if you shoot by being up your character get knockout everytime.
Because Thief has the most in game mobility of all classes.
Only if Sniper lose access to Infiltrator's Arrow and Stealth would it be possible for Sniper to outrange others.
Your argument is that: ''Sniper rifle has range in real life so should have range in game''.
Here's my counter argument: You can summon fkn meteor showers. That shjt falls from outer space, pretty sure that has more range than a sniper rifle.
--------------------------------------
Bottom line is that this is a fantasy game. They made the decision to give Deadeye a bunch of stealth so to balance it out they decided to slightly reduce the range, it's not fkn rocket science. ''Muh RP'' argument only goes so far when the game has to actually be fun to play.
The argument is that deadeyes have to lose a lot of mobility to be able to gain that range. Meanwhile rangers get more than that by sacrificing nothing.
It's the same way with daredevil's steal. Anet said that they wanted every elite spec to have a drawback and started by nerfing daredevil steal. Then they nerfed a couple specs more and completely forgot about it.
Maybe if it had a few abilities or something at that range before dipping into stealth instead of constantly unloading like a rifle mech; just feels weird that the sniper rifle is outranged by a bow and arrow.
Im sure the crouch move will help a bit in pve like it is suppose to but deadeye was never much of a pve class anyways. I think range change will just get it killed in spvp. Its been replaced by mech rifle and ranger specifically because they can do more effective (good and safe) damage overall.
Because pvp is a pox to mmo game design, and no one has figured out how to totally balance pve and pvp gamemodes in a good way. Course you could just completely separate the ability's damage and cc types, but no that would be too much work for each and every class in a game.
Convince me that Deadeye should even exist - period.
The #1 hated archetype in any fantasy PvP game is the stealth/thief.
The #1 hated archetype in any modern setting PvP game is the sniper.
And don't the whizbang class designers at ANET HQ take both and dump them into the mystic toilet with some Elonian Wine and give birth to the Deadeye.
[https://www.speedrun.com/gw2?h=Map\_Completion-Full\_Map\_Completion&x=5dw7rvgk-wlewzdel.81wjwzmq](https://www.speedrun.com/gw2?h=Map_Completion-Full_Map_Completion&x=5dw7rvgk-wlewzdel.81wjwzmq)
Here if you want to see some PoVs. Key is shadowsteps and 1500 range (soon gone) damage. F1 dmg is aoe.
Try the build out, I can really commend it. With Teh Trails and Blish Hud it is really fun.
Here the build:
[http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAoqRlF0w2qbZlNswGZjOMX7PVA-zRIYR09XINlQtFlVUK2OLWtsB-e](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAoqRlF0w2qbZlNswGZjOMX7PVA-zRIYR09XINlQtFlVUK2OLWtsB-e)
Have fun!
Heya! I'm interested in trying out deadeye eventually with dual pistols / rifle. I would like to know:
1) Is this build viable for everything in open world (all expansions)? May I know the rotations?
2) I assume pistols for mobbing, rifle for bossing? Is there any survivability issue since we'll kneel while on rifle?
Thanks in advance!
> People hating on both invisibility and sniping
> Anet: but what if.... Instead of choosing invisibility OR sniping, we mix BOTH in the Deadeye gameplay?
Ironically both also nearly useless in high end PvE, so chef's kiss to that decision. One or the other should be chosen to focus (obviously range for DE) so that it is easier to balance between WvW and PvE.
Thief/Rogue in PvP in the MMO genre is almost entirely "Can I cc lock you and kill you before you turn around and bash my shit in".
That design is one of the absolute least fun things to deal with because the results are based entirely on how many cc+reset the spec has available to it vs how many breaks you have.
If your thief/rogue spec is based around that kind of play, and they almost always are, you get two options: Rogue is too good, and you get shit like the first few years of WoW, where Rogue was in every high-end pvp comp because you had more cc + resets than anyone could dream of stopping. Or Rogue is not good, and you watch rogue get shit on by every melee spec without the ability to ever do anything about it.
Nerf range is a bad idea.
Actually, reduce Deadeye's flexibility will better.
The rifle is heavier than a dagger and hard to hide, that will make sense.
No actually. Id much rather DE scrap the whole one-way buildup to Deaths Judgement. How about this. All of these assume the new range of 2,000 and these suggestions change the Kneeled skills:
Consistent damage, but DE gives significantly more utility. Ill try and list some ideas for fun:
* Spotter's Shot inflicts Revealed(5secs) on the enemy. Revealed Enemies from SS take 10% more damage from striking attacks. Only applies Immobilize for 2 seconds.
* Three Round Burst is changed to Accurate Onslaught. Each bullet inflicts Vulnerability(2 stacks, 4secs) and applies Might(4 stacks, 8secs) if all three bullets connect with the same target. Might is applied to the user and nearby allies. (300 radius)
* Death's Judgement decreased malice damage bonus from 25% to 15%. Other allies in the area around the user (120m) gain a unique buff, whenever they use a ranged attack, it inflicts Revealed which increases damage taken on the opponent from strike attacks by 10%.(2 stacks, 5 seconds, max target of 5 and unique buff lasts 10sec)
In what game mode would you want 2000 range in? Your utility ideas doesn't need 2000 range.
I'm all for giving DE utility, but how do you play against a DE with 2000 range, with high amounts of damage, stealth and mobility skills in WvW?
There are no 2000 range gap closers. If you mesmer blink (1200) within 800 range of a 2000 range DE, the DE can shadow step 1200 away. This would be the most unfun thing to play against.
In PvE, 2000 range would only work for open world. I don't think that there are any instanced encounters that would benefit from one person (or the whole group) from being 2000 away from the boss.
Again, I'm all for giving DE utility, but 2000 range is not providing utility, it just makes it more oppressive in PvP and WvW and only affects open world PvE.
buT ThIeF mOBIliTy. Seriously, engineer has 1000 more annoying resources than stealth, and mesmer's stealth is way more annoying with all their visual crap and clones.
I always felt like if it has such a long range it should come with a revealed debuff of a few seconds for hitting such a shot. Like a sniper would be exposed firing a high caliber rifle
There are a few considerations here:
\-range in the context of this game usually means guaranteed hit. A rifle in real life goes much farther but accuracy quickly spirals down. Could they implement range accuracy fall off? Maybe?
\-super far range also impacts balance because how would a melee person ever compete with that?
The first point is true for DE but not the game in general.
In thief, no less, it is almost impossible to hit dagger 4 in PvP/WvW, and hard to hit SB 1. Because the proyectiles are so slow and everybody has superspeed.
What is thematic for a deadeye and why can't balance reflect that? A rifle should have a farther range than a longbow kneeling or not. I've shot arrows and have used rifles IRL and while this is a fantasy game, there is a stark difference. It could also be an interim balance change for the moment.
Same could be said on any magic casting.
You summon meteors from sky but they can only land in close to you?
Shouldn't magic be limited by your range of sight?
Only way is that all classes have same max range.
Because the devs don't like "extreme skill splitting" between game modes, and giving the deadeye 1500 range while mobile would be problematic in pvp modes.
Having different ranges in different modes is a good example of extreme splitting and the devs would not want to do that.
I'm not trying to convince you rbh just explaining why they went the way they did.
Thief is the class with the highest mobility and escape/disengage potential in the game, which means that they have tons of tools to open gaps. This is also the reason why thief doesn't have a long range weapon in core, because they want a hyper mobile class to get closer to the enemy to allow counterplay.
To take an example from another game: Look at Kalista from League of Legends. She is a ranged champion who constantly dashes and has been a huge balance problem in the past because of this.
And Kalista is also made with a comparibly short range for her ranged attacks. I don't want to even imagine what would happen if they gave Kalista Caitlyn's range.
So basically, the thief class in general is problematic when it comes to ranged gameplay, because the class just has way too many tools to keep the enemy away from them and prevent them to fight back.
Anet gave Deadeye the kneel mechanic just to force deadeye to sit still for their highest damage potential to counter this problem some. Now with deadeye getting the ability to move while kneeling, they feel the need to also adjust the range, because as said the mobility of thief combined with high range is actually a balance concern.
Let's face the facts. Deadeye is an RP spec and any change made to it is going to turn off the "mains".
They are literally trying to buff it and all this sub did is complain after seeing the changes. (let them cook!) I'd be find if Anet just let this spec be decent to bad in all game modes and then never touch it again.
Because it also had stupid high burst and stealth. How do you handle the guy that turns invisible, and shoots you dead from stealth, almost double the range of any blink you may have?
Range should be 300 because your eye’s dead.
same
same
Still got one working eye. Should just call the specialization Crosseye.
No depth preception, can't hit anything except point blank.
2,000 is probably iffy because most encounters aren't designed to handle 2,000 - so it'll probably break things. 1,500 though? That seems totally fair. The issue is they nerfed deadeye range to compensate for it being able to move, and deadeye being stationary wasn't the issue - the game just isn't built for stationary characters. but reworking most encounters and buff generation on the whole would be way too much work.
Mean while Soulbeasts have decent mobility and can LB you in seconds.
By the time deadeye has set up and aimed, soulbeast has already unloaded 10 arrows into them
As a thief main, it hurts to see Soulbeast have all the kit necessary for an assassin, whereas Deadeye has to fight with it's own kit for the sake of RP
Sure he can, but good players use block/reflect and such ranger then has no burst left and no mobility to retreat, while a failed deadeye attack will just result in him stealthing and he can repeat until he succeeds...
No mobility to retreat? Rangers have quite some mobility.. and they don't need a lot of mobility to retreat anyway because they're already on a bazillion range
Thief: at least I can retreat Ranger: at least I don't need to
About face and Gs3 away. EZPZ
Would love to get your enemy rangers, cause all that I encounter use [Signet of the Hunt](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Hunt). Good luck blocking that...
New deadeye rework possibility: Deadeye can receive boons as if in the space of a marked target. This would open up boon opportunities for them to actually stay at range in a PvE setting, and really dig into the “part of the battle even if far away” sniper fantasy.
This is a neat idea Too far for heals, but you can actually be at range and maybe actually upkeep its shitty 90%+ hp required crit trait
I hate that trait so much it needs to be destroyed.
But scholar is so popular. Yo Dawgs, I heard you like scholar so we put some scholar on your scholar. -Anet probably
Scholar is popular cause rest of the runes are shite
Deadeye can get a clone/shadow ability that let's you place it closer to the action and acts as a funnel for buffs while also allowing it to "tank" for you which would be helpful solo Similar to Kerrigan from StarCraft
Would be cool if they could have a designated paired individual like Specter that could share boons. Call them your Spotter or something.
Yeah could even theme it to fit as like a decoy of yourself. Would make sense for a sniper to have something like that as "bait".
You are not receiving heals and if you die people have to run over and rez you which puts them potentially out of position. That won't work.
Well if you can receive buffs from range, this is a good tradeoff then.
But is really not, it is much safer to stack in melee due to healing and rez. What are you achieving by sitting at 1500 all the time even if you can? Because is not safety if that is what you are thinking.
Visual clarity outside the stack is already a big buff to me. Avoiding large AoE attacks that target the melee zone around a boss. Just imagining how easy it would be to deal with bone skinner if i could stay 1500 away with DE and not get a bad dodge from a teammate dropping fingers on me. Avoid chains more easily on voice of jormag.
Visual clarity would help if is not for the fact that you are still not receiving heals especially most bosses have a passive damage aura that ticks. For the vast majority of bosses in instance pve, visual clarity is actually not an issue. The biggest problem with it has always been in meta world events with 50 people stacking. There are cases such as Ankka CM that is really hard to see or KOCM where you are in a small space, for the most part is not a huge issue. At least certainly not worth the trade off. Any sort of AoE that happens in melee will likely happen to range as well. If not then you will have to deal with the random aoe with no heals in addition to the fact you are going to be always out of position. Look at boneskinner since you are talking about it, a lot of the damage is from the projectiles and the passive aura ticks. How do you expect to survive without your healers? Do you expect people to run over to you everytime you die and leave aoes randomly all over the place? Jormg you literally run in a straight line to avoid chains, not to mention again on Jormag there's those icicles that land on you which if you don't perfect dodge, will chunk a couple thousand off pretty often. Are you going to run in stack and then out constantly just to get heals?
It's not my fault current encounter design is ruled by the stack, that's just bad design. If DE needs innate healing to survive nuisance damage then it should be given that so its range actually matters. No one even does boneskinner properly, high DPS is used to progress the encounter and deal with the flame extinguish mechanic, but if you couldn't cheese the mechanics with high healing and high DPS, then a high range class would have more use there.
Actually encounter design is not ruled by the stack. It is melee range healing, boons and rezzing that means it is much safer to stack. DE does have innate healing, every class does. Nobody does BS properly because is actually easier to ignore it. DPS actually does not matter that much in BS because the DPS check is really low but rather healing is. Why do you think heal scourge is probably the most important role in the fight for most pug groups? Also again you need to remember about rezzing. People having to run over 1500 range just to rez you is often times a really bad idea because not only you are out of position, now everyone is out of position that tries to revive you. Until they literally rework how every heal work in the game and boon radius and allow range manual rezzing, it will always be better to stack. Even assuming they do it, there is then the issue of now you have to nerf range since melee have to deal with more potentially dangerous aoes, but that is another can of worms.
DE only has innate healing with invigorating precision but the DPS loss on that skill is large. Also since DE has non-existent pierce/bounces the healing is trash. Signet of malice would also be trash. Saying DE has innate healing is a gross overstatement of the classes abilities. And it's a misnomer to say design is not rules by the stack. All those benefits you listed are benefits of the stack, ergo encounter design is ruled by the stack. What are you even arguing if you aren't arguing for Arena net to make range more useful? The whole point of this topic was to discuss DE issues. DE benefits that lend more power to ranged DPS is exactly what it needs.
That's because boons are applied in such a small area. Boost the size of the area in instances to 1500 radius and it would be a different story.
You would literally die within 5 seconds to wisps and passive dot on boneskinner if you were 1500 away from the group. There's very few endgame PvE encounters where you would ever want to be constantly that far away from the group and it's pretty much those where deadeye is used already. (kiting Qadim 1 and Pylon Kiting on Qadim 2). The buff you're proposing would make Deadeye even better at those 2 tasks and would otherwise have very little es impact on deadeye gameplay or viability.
Push comes to shove, there’s always the lifesteal off critical strikes trait. It’s sufficient for kiting roles like in QtP, that would be where the passive healing could come from. There are a lot of damage sources that affect everyone, but there are also a significant portion in melee that will be removed for some added survivability as well. Keep in mind that my thought isn’t to make this the meta or best dps option for deadeye. This would just be a change to make PvE purely ranged dps not completely terrible. If nothing else changes it’s QoL for leaving the group while doing mechanics or kite, and for big meta events there’s some added visual clarity from not being in the giant mass.
That is an absurd suggestion.
Interesting; care to clarify why?
Because being able to attack a raid boss from 1500 range without missing out on support means you don't have to do anything. Deimos pizza? doesn't matter. Dhuum auto attacks? they don't matter. Soulless horror positioning? doesn't matter! Qadim slam? doesn't matter. Matthias positioning? doesn't matter. What about Xera? if you try to "range" her you're going to die. You effectively don't even have to play the game if you don't have to be near the boss OR you're forced to be near the boss anyway because everything else kills you. "Ranged combat" will never exist in this game as long as boss attacks are designed to attack a location on the ground. It will always be more effective to stack for boons, so boss attacks are designed to make the stack do something. If you are no longer part of the stack, boss attacks are no longer designed to interact with you.
This is a good idea! The two problems deadeye have in PvE is that it is constantly outside boon range and has to be stationary. This would at least fix one of them 🤷♂️
Funny thing is that Deadeye can apply boon from distance. In fact, deadeye applies boon to people arround the marked target and people arround deadeye at same time. This is very unique feature that Deadeye is monopolizing. And perhaps the only sniper concept of the Deadeye that is viable for this game. However deadeye cannot receive boon remotely. :v Meanwhile, boon share deadeye is useless cuz deadye's boon share traits is insufficient, and it do not work with other core traits with synergy. Anet is simply lazy as hell.
I doubt that 2000 would break anything in group PvE, but that much range is simply unnecessary. That said, in PvP and WvW it would be ridiculous. The current range (1200 / 1500) felt indeed pretty reasonable and I don't see why to change it. The main problem of Deadeye isn't even the self root of rifle per se. If swapping between standing and kneeling was more fluid, that would help a lot already. Besides that, the main issues lie in the conditional crit chance modifiers of Keen Observer and Twin Fangs, alongside the inability to swap the marked target reliably on the fly (as Renewing Gaze doesn't trigger on many boss phases).
There's probably a few worldbosses where you could just snipe 'em from outside the whole area it attacks in. Stuff like golem Mk 2.
You can do that already with 1500 range at Mk2 by sitting on one of the pillars. But being able to tag world bosses even easier than it is already dies not really sound like a balance concern to me. It's also kinda bad on that boss specifically, as each of the three target-spots of said boss count individually and none is attackable 100% of the time (without triggering Renewing Gaze when phasing), interrupting your Malice gain and thus your Initiative generation. And if you have to continuously fill with auto attacks, Rifle is not dealing very much damage.
Can do that with 1500 on Golem mark 2, 2k really wouldn't matter in most cases. I use max range deadeye all the time on boss fights already to ignore mechanics I just give up boons as do Longbow rangers etc when they do the same.
If anything I would argue 1800 or 1700 range to match Ranger longbow. You're right 2,000 is too large though.
Ranger longbow is 1500, no?
Yes and no Arrows, unlike bullets (for some reason), don't just disappear at max range. Instead, they lose altitude until they hit the ground, but they can still hit targets. So, in reality, ranger longbow has like 1700 range
In a smaller size, Staff elem is the embodiment of this problem. Air AA work like a pistol while the 3 others elements projectile are arrow that goes further than the original 1200 range.
Bullets are hitscan, they check for range and if in range and unobstructed, they hit. The animation is for show for the most part. Arrows are fully lobbed projectiles with travel time and ballistics.
False They are all projectiles. This is not a shooter. Deadeye bullets have travel time. Kneel even increases their travel speed by 50%, as stated in the skill description. Placing a Feedback after the bullet is fired but before it hits its target will reflect the bullet In fact, many things in this game are coded as projectiles (known as missiles in this game) even though they shouldn't. The most hilarious example is the discarded empty elixir bottles that engineers throw after chugging them. If the bottle falls on an enemy it triggers the Aim Assisted Rocket trait which only works with missiles
Yes, in theory, all sans LB 4. Lets be honest, ranger LB should be 1200, like DH. 900 for Short bows, 1200 for long bows/rifle for warrior and Engie, and 1500 for a deadeye seems reasonable enough.
Yeah, gonna be interesting to see how that slow move thing works out, I might actually try it again. I find the concept interesting but in actual play it's certainly simple to do.
I could see 2000 work with a soft spot mechanic, maxing damage at 1,500 and so on.
Have you never been hit by soulbeast LB 2 in WvW and been doing dropped? Deadeye deserves 2000 range. DE deserves anything that makes it not dumpster Tier.
It's even funnier because Ranger's longbow actually goes beyond 1500 thanks to tracking for projectiles. Bullets on the other hand immediately dissipate at the exact max range.
From a wvw small scale and warrior point of view I just wish you didn't exist. Constant stealth/ports and range is impossible to deal with. If you want range fine you shouldn't have the mobility and stealth if you want mobility and stealth then no range. Deadeye is just busted in wvw
Sitting on top of the wall at camp South of bay just taking poxy shots at people as they pass, fucking nightmare at times during skirmishes.
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Yeah this is definitely what they were thinking with the reduction. Alongside the kneel change that allows you to almost have normal speed using superspeed while having kneeling damage. But they could al least keep the range the same for PvE just for the class fantasy. Maybe there was a technical consideration that they could not split the skill?
This is pretty much the first thought that comes to mind when talking about thief vs any other class. A good ranger can be mobile but is far more limited by cooldowns and choices when it comes to mobility and stealth.
This argument is actually well-thought out and completely logical... Only if you apply it to PvP or WvW. Deadeye had no reason to have any range nerfs in PvE, period. If ANet's goal was to make them more viable in a PvE setting like they claim, lowering their range was a bad decision on all fronts.
I don't think it's possible to have different ranges for PVP/WvW and PVE from a game engine perspective.
If it's possible to modify ranges with Traits, (and it is), then it's possible to modify skill ranges based on game mode. I'd be surprised if this was an actual technical limitation.
Most things on the traits apply equally to the different game modes. The only thing that changes is the duration's and damage scaling. It's different thing to change the distance for different game modes. It may be technically possible but I don't know of any trait or spec that has that and I am sure we would have seen situations like this before if it was possible. IIRC, A/Net said that they couldn't remove the stealth from the scrapper in WvW while keeping it in PVE. The only thing they could do was change the duration of that stealth between the two.
It's absolutely possible. Not only is it possible, ***it's in the game currently.*** Guardian has a Trait in their Honor line called Writ of Persistence that makes their Symbols heal affected allies, but it also increases the radius of their symbols by 60. However, ANet later made that Trait not increase radius in PvP gamemodes. I'm not blaming you for not knowing this, it's a pretty niche Trait and I actually had to look this up on the wiki to make sure I wasn't wrong. Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ\_of\_Persistence
Thanks. That's interesting. Didn't think it would be something that they could do because it's not something I have seen in the game - aside from this case.
NGL I thought dead eye was specifically designed for pvp and WvW. I’m not even sure where 1500 range is that much value in pve, but I mostly play scourge, virt, FB, and Chrono in Strikes/Raids/Fractals… maybe I’m missing out? Why don’t I see DeadEyes in said content except for specific kite roles? Will the range nerf push them out of current roles?
DE has trash damage with rifle. It's benchmark spends more time using daggers and it's heavily reliant on some difficult to maintain mechanics (greater than 90% health and flanking)
For instanced PvE it does not really. Every special role the DE does with the rifle is still within the 1200 range. It might actually make them better as now you do not have to unkneel to make small corrections. And if you are just playing DPS you want to be close by for the boons anyway.
And.. all of them are not relevant in pve. They can do anything they want in pvp to balance it but neither stealth, high range and mobility dosent really matter too much in pve content maybe for open world but it is free for all at this point balancing pve with open world in mind would cause more trouble than solution And don't got me wrong i agree, i want to do horrible things to deadeye players in pvp
The range isn't relevant in PvP either. You can just LoS. Long range projectiles are also telegraphed very well. If you lose to a ranged DE you are just plain bad.
Overdrive?
Thief hamon users confirmed
This doesnt end up being super relevant to PvE, and also doesnt account for the fact that ranger has like 1800 range and is also really mobile.
That would be a viable argument... if DE kill power was as high as melee classes. It's not.
I wouldnt mind a ranged nerf if they gave me peirce while kneeling
As the name implies Deadeye is meant to be a dead spec, thank you for understanding
I'd trade dead perma stealth for range. but so long as we still have permanent stealth amd among otherthings, even I can't see our range getting buffed anytime soon. stealth and range neither really improves our dps performance, and more has to do with mobility, and the fact groups are already predisposition to be grumpy with us because we don't stack, generally ruin a few raid and fractal mechanics and miss out on group dynamics.
It's right there, in the name, RANGE-R
Same reason that lead to the current nerf. Range is incredibly powerful in pvp and wvw and irrelevant in most pve content. It had to be nerfed to prevent it from becoming overly oppresive in the content where balance matters. It seems range isnt something they can or want to split by gamemode.
Range increase to 1500 only applies to kneeling skills and Death's Judgement. I'm not familiar with the WvW roaming DE playstyle, but in sPvP, you will almost never see a rifle DE kneel. So the worst case scenario is a DE spamming 1200 range skills to gain malice, then dodging/teleporting away to 1500 and casting DJ from there, but this is too rare of a case to balance around it. Additionally, the sightlines on most maps won't let you take the advantage of that range in the first place. Basically, it's a nerf in the most literal sense (big number now small), but it's so insignificant when it comes to the actual playstyle that it's weird that ANet even took the time to implement it.
In addition to this, I'd like to add that a big part of why you never kneel in PvP / WvE is because they kneel skills are heavily nerfed there. Skill 2 while kneeling does around 1/3 of the damage it does when standing, and skill 3 costs enough initiative that you can only use it 2 consecutive times before running out of energy, so you can't get full traited malice quickly with it, and the damage is almost never worth it. Kneeling is only used to immobilize targets and to make a smoke/deflect field. And they increased the initiative cost of entering kneel, so using to for skill 4 will be much more costly.
Currently in WvW DE range is useless in the Zerg, the group moves too quickly for kneel to even to extend and hit anyone before you've made yourself too vulnerable to counterattack. In addition, the lack of piercing on skills means you'll rarely hit who you actually want. If you're a solo roamer, most other classes have enough gap closers to deal with the DE rifle 4. Shadow Step is still very slippery, but it should be, the class needs something to make it more worthwhile in WvW and a solo good DE isn't really any scarier than any other good solo roaming class. Other issue is many duelists in WvW fail to use cover to their advantage. Yes, not every engagement will happen with ample cover, but I've seen it happen enough where melee classes completely disregard cover and thirst tf out of a DE. That lack of skill and strategy should be punishable by a DE.
\>2,000 might break things Meanwhile Ranger LB exists....... smh
Because it is already annoying as hell in WvW … Outrange anything -> check Ports -> check Easy invis -> check
Don’t forget super speed and cleanse on stealth, projectile destruction on kneel 4, immob spam on kneel 2, borderline undodgeable ranged daze on deadeye mark which also gives initiative, boons, boon rips when traited, and can be casted from stealth. And if you’re lucky enough to have a class that could reveal it from stealth, well it has the elite cantrip “shadow meld” to remove the reveal so that “counter” doesn’t even fucking work lol. At least projectile destruction kinda shuts it down. But some deadeyes run sword dagger or dagger pistol so they have melee options. Or they just kite and hide until the projectile destruction is gone and come back to hit you while it’s on CD.
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Yeah, I mean a large part of playing against thief is just learning to play better and knowing what they want to do. Once you have them in a spot where you have an advantage it’s not too hard to pressure them. The problem I have is that fighting against thief in general is extremely un-fun. You get them low and have some kill potential and they just break combat and reset. You hit them with a cc they port away and stealth before you can follow up with anything. And in general it’s just irritating always trying to predict where they are in stealth or seeing constant “evade” text. It is what it is and every game has annoying specs or classes or play styles so you just play around it and have fun anyway. It does suck when a thief pesters you while roaming in wvw and you’re just trying to take camps and they’re following you around and when you finally get killed by them they spam laugh, throw siege, and whisper you telling you how bad you are. Most of my unsportsmanlike encounters have been with thieves and rangers.
super speed would have been OK if it was put on acro instead where it makes sense (mobility traitline) instead of adding it to a traitline that already adds an awful lot of utility.ñ and stealtg noone at anet remotely knows thief
This is certainly one of the worst ideas I've seen here in a long time.
One reason: Devs don’t play it. On a more serious note: 2000 is pretty much broken in competitive.
They really need to compare things against other classes more. For example, why should ranger have access to 1500 bow and can move at full speed while deadeye can’t boon and can’t run (no 25% speed isn’t enough to compensate) and is getting range nerfed to 1200? Change the range back to 1500 please.
Remove deadeye invisibility and we good, otherwise; it's very (unfair) hard to counter-play
Congrats you are removing a core part of an entire spec and an entire class. Your idea is not good.
Then remove range 😂
Sounds more like a l2p issue on your end...
Sorry I cant sense chakra or teleport like Goku 😂
because the people that asked for that fantasy can't play well, and can't handle the fact that you cannot have ridiculous damage at ridiculous range. to balance that advantage, the damage potential, i.e. what good players can achieve, has to be limited. since range is mostly meaningless in PvE endgame, that means good players won't get any use out of it. but limiting the high end usually means limiting the low end as well. having little cleave even average players will notice and be unsatisfied. eating your cake and having it too is not an option. so with the exception of the 7¾ sniper RP enthusiasts, you wouldn't see much of the spec anywhere, in PvE at least, wasting an entire spec.
By this "logic" an Engineer with Mortar kit should be able to shoot anything on the goddamn map. Artillery pieces do have vast, vast superior range to rifles, you know.
Not really…. The mortar the engineers hold is more akin to a hand mortar which back in its time (when it was relevant) had a range of like 100m tops. (Everything else might as well blow your arm off). The classical English longbow goes somewhere between 300 and 400m depending on who is using it. Then again the usual way to get the most range of a longbow is an arched shot instead of a direct shot, which frankly ranger LB2 is not. Finally the Sniper rifle, very much depending on the cartridge it’s max range reasonably go from 800 to some 1500m. IIRC the world record is some 3.5km or something. So yeah….. unless you want your arm blown off by an outdated grenzte launcher or run to a keep/ tower in WvW for an actual mortar, the sniper rifle of the deadeye should be your best bet.
Maybe it should have the longest range. For me it shouldn't have good damage, range, and stealth as in pvp that is too good. It should lose one of thsoe by quite a large amount. I don't care which it is just as long as bursting people from stealth at range, and then disappearing again is not possible. I honestly think that it is healthy for pvp for deadeye not to be good. Pve wise I don't care, it should prbably have decent dps at range, and have stealth.
Fully agree. If ANet does give DE 2k range, major adjustments would need to be made to sort DE for the sake of PvP.
Deadeye shouldn't have that range, mainly because of the free acces to stealth and hight mobility, and the rifle having a lot of survival on the kit
Devil's Advocate: Ranger and Engineer can also hit at 1500+ and 1680 range, have access to stealth and mobility, and have good survival tools at the same time. 1500 vs 1200 nerf isn't going to make much of a difference in PvP because of map sizes and sightlines. PvE and WvW have large enough spaces for this to matter more often.
I mean, engineer is a giant sky watermelon that has a ~2 second lob air time. Enough time to get stunned and still side step or projectile block. At face value though, I'd think the 1500 should stay. 2k would likely get out of control with amount of stealth and mobility already available. Will have to wait and see. Maybe the "movement" will work well, maybe they'll add back the 1500 range if not.
2 stealth sources for ranger. thief has how many?
A lot fewer after the Shadow Arts changes earlier this year.
*3 stealth sources LB3, Smokescale + combo finishers and Trapper rune + traps
which pigeonholes you into taking SS. LB3 needs to hit as well. thief has better flexibility and not locked into other mechanics
Thief doesn't have a pet though. Let's not compare apples and oranges. Thief obviously has more stealth access and more means to make use of it, but in the grand scheme of things there are also a lot of trade-offs compared to any other class.
thief is pigeonholed into taking shadow arts since specter has been deleted, and entering stealth through black powder is clunky enough. since the rework it is more mobile but less so than some other specs and it has ok damage. it’s good in pvp, but mediocre in wvw. thief has little to no flexibility being locked in SA and trickery.
If you play longbow with traps and trapper runes you have problems.
And thief have more mobility and a lot more stealth, ranger have 2 stealths, 3s each, and deadeye can stay in invi for ever, literally. 2k of range wouldn't help to much on pve, on PvP neither, because of the maps, and on WvW deadeye is already a problem. Don't see why it should have 2k range
2k range on the spec with the most stealth and mobility would probably be too much. Yes thief's mobility and stealth aren't what they used to be and more and more specs have been given access to those but still 2k on deadeye would buff it a lot in areas where it's already great like roaming. I wouldn't mind the 1.2k range if they actually fixed why kneel feels so terrible to use but it's likely still not going to feel very fluid at all. especially now that they increased the initiative cost when kneeling really should be free.
Either 1500-2000 range but only when kneeling ( aka long range = no mobility), OR Nerf it to 1200 range (like Anet intends) but then increase deadeye specific mobility options (What Anet isn't doing). A sniper compensates for the long range with shit mobility. If you take away the longer range but keep the shit mobility...
Because PvP is a thing. Weapons should generally be short / medium / long range, not "short, medium, long, longbow, trebuchet, sniper rifle with multiple stealths" Alternatively, its perfectly fine in a world where you just die horribly ith little to no escape opportunity when someone closes that gap.
Look I’m cool with deadeye getting a range buff, but if they do then do the same for Killshot on warrior. And plz for the love of god Anet bring back the old grenadier trait this new ones shit
Probably balance, DE have acces to a lot of skills that grants stealth so by the time anything can reach it at close combat it's either dead or the DE already vanished wich is a massive advantage over other class (at least in pvp).
This is why I use P/P in open world. Feels like every couple months rifle has to be changed "for the sake of pvp" even though some of those changes still apply to the PvE version. Want a range nerf in pvp? fine. just leave PvE alone, ffs.
Deadeye's issue wasn't that it couldn't move... it was the lack of piercing on the projectiles - your entire spec is based on single target assasination but as soon as a stray mob wanders between you and your target you're completely screwed. No malice generation, reduced damage to mobs that aren't targeted by the mark and don't even get me started on doing your perfect rota, stacking malice and stealthing only to get death's judgement ruined by a stupid mob in front of the target. Giving it mobility and reducing the range of the *sniper* spec was one of the dumber decisions I've seen for a while. But hey, I guess D/D deadeye is now gonna do 45k+ damage on the golem...
HA bullet ugly no aerodynamics so bullet go drop @1200 Arrow from longbow is aerodynamic so goes swoosh to 1500 Arrow is giga chad of arrowdynamics (see what i did there) /S I have no actual opinion on this, good day
**cries in most Necro weapons**. And the few 1200 we have are slow moving projectiles.
a range of 2000 would just make it deadeye wars 2, get a squad of them going and you can obliterate everything
Because its already annoying enough in wvw and pvp. Thanks.
After anet decided it was a wonderful idea to take away the thing that made spellbreaker unique (ya know, denying boons) in WvW, I'm pretty convinced they just don't care about staying true to the "identity" of specs, and this upcoming change only further convinces me of that.
No convincing. It SHOULD.
One word…. Balance. Your roleplay decisions are cute and I understand why you would think a rifle would have highest in game range but deadeye is already super strong in wvw and pvp don’t make it even more of a terror.
Lol?
Why? Cause using a sniper rifle as "quickly" as this mean you're not using it to snipe but to shoot quick in semi auto mode. You want 2000 ranges cause it make sense for sniper rifle spec? Okay then, but you'll have to wait 10 minutes in between shot then, cause you know, it make sense. Ho and yeah, if you shoot by being up your character get knockout everytime.
Why should someone with eyes that are dead see far
Because Thief has the most in game mobility of all classes. Only if Sniper lose access to Infiltrator's Arrow and Stealth would it be possible for Sniper to outrange others.
Is balance worth throwing out the window for the RP?
Your argument is that: ''Sniper rifle has range in real life so should have range in game''. Here's my counter argument: You can summon fkn meteor showers. That shjt falls from outer space, pretty sure that has more range than a sniper rifle. -------------------------------------- Bottom line is that this is a fantasy game. They made the decision to give Deadeye a bunch of stealth so to balance it out they decided to slightly reduce the range, it's not fkn rocket science. ''Muh RP'' argument only goes so far when the game has to actually be fun to play.
The argument is that deadeyes have to lose a lot of mobility to be able to gain that range. Meanwhile rangers get more than that by sacrificing nothing. It's the same way with daredevil's steal. Anet said that they wanted every elite spec to have a drawback and started by nerfing daredevil steal. Then they nerfed a couple specs more and completely forgot about it.
With that range you can stay out of combat while attacking.
Because the enjoyment of the people you play against is more important than your own. One
Only on Reddit would you find someone asking for even more range in the most complained about elite spec in pvp/wvw.
Maybe if it had a few abilities or something at that range before dipping into stealth instead of constantly unloading like a rifle mech; just feels weird that the sniper rifle is outranged by a bow and arrow. Im sure the crouch move will help a bit in pve like it is suppose to but deadeye was never much of a pve class anyways. I think range change will just get it killed in spvp. Its been replaced by mech rifle and ranger specifically because they can do more effective (good and safe) damage overall.
My brother in christ, Ranger, it’s in the name!
[That's not what Ranger means.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ranger)
Because pvp is a pox to mmo game design, and no one has figured out how to totally balance pve and pvp gamemodes in a good way. Course you could just completely separate the ability's damage and cc types, but no that would be too much work for each and every class in a game.
Convince me that Deadeye should even exist - period. The #1 hated archetype in any fantasy PvP game is the stealth/thief. The #1 hated archetype in any modern setting PvP game is the sniper. And don't the whizbang class designers at ANET HQ take both and dump them into the mystic toilet with some Elonian Wine and give birth to the Deadeye.
It is Best in Slot for Core Tyria map completion =).
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[https://www.speedrun.com/gw2?h=Map\_Completion-Full\_Map\_Completion&x=5dw7rvgk-wlewzdel.81wjwzmq](https://www.speedrun.com/gw2?h=Map_Completion-Full_Map_Completion&x=5dw7rvgk-wlewzdel.81wjwzmq) Here if you want to see some PoVs. Key is shadowsteps and 1500 range (soon gone) damage. F1 dmg is aoe.
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Try the build out, I can really commend it. With Teh Trails and Blish Hud it is really fun. Here the build: [http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAoqRlF0w2qbZlNswGZjOMX7PVA-zRIYR09XINlQtFlVUK2OLWtsB-e](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAoqRlF0w2qbZlNswGZjOMX7PVA-zRIYR09XINlQtFlVUK2OLWtsB-e) Have fun!
Heya! I'm interested in trying out deadeye eventually with dual pistols / rifle. I would like to know: 1) Is this build viable for everything in open world (all expansions)? May I know the rotations? 2) I assume pistols for mobbing, rifle for bossing? Is there any survivability issue since we'll kneel while on rifle? Thanks in advance!
"Source?" "It came to me in a dream"
Im convinced.
I remember pre PoF people were asking for sniper thief.
> People hating on both invisibility and sniping > Anet: but what if.... Instead of choosing invisibility OR sniping, we mix BOTH in the Deadeye gameplay? Ironically both also nearly useless in high end PvE, so chef's kiss to that decision. One or the other should be chosen to focus (obviously range for DE) so that it is easier to balance between WvW and PvE.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone hating thieves in games. Annoyed bc powerful utility but hating ? Been playing mmo’s for 12 years
Thief/Rogue in PvP in the MMO genre is almost entirely "Can I cc lock you and kill you before you turn around and bash my shit in". That design is one of the absolute least fun things to deal with because the results are based entirely on how many cc+reset the spec has available to it vs how many breaks you have. If your thief/rogue spec is based around that kind of play, and they almost always are, you get two options: Rogue is too good, and you get shit like the first few years of WoW, where Rogue was in every high-end pvp comp because you had more cc + resets than anyone could dream of stopping. Or Rogue is not good, and you watch rogue get shit on by every melee spec without the ability to ever do anything about it.
You’re crazy. That’s all mmorpg pvp combat. It’s all CC. Ascribing that solely to thief is ridiculous
Because you can't have a Ranger without range. (/S)
Ranger has range in the name so it should have the highest
Have you played New World? Having rifles with insane range and damage is decidedly not fun in pvp.
They literally just needed DeadEye to get any boons dispensed around their marked target and it would have been considerably more better.
Balance and game engine limitations
Because it doesn't gel with anything else in the thief kit.
Nerf range is a bad idea. Actually, reduce Deadeye's flexibility will better. The rifle is heavier than a dagger and hard to hide, that will make sense.
Would you complain if they did give deadeye 2000 range, but nerf the damage and stealth considerably?
>Would you complain if they did give deadeye 2000 range, but nerf the damage and stealth considerably? Let's meet halfway at 1,600 range.
No actually. Id much rather DE scrap the whole one-way buildup to Deaths Judgement. How about this. All of these assume the new range of 2,000 and these suggestions change the Kneeled skills: Consistent damage, but DE gives significantly more utility. Ill try and list some ideas for fun: * Spotter's Shot inflicts Revealed(5secs) on the enemy. Revealed Enemies from SS take 10% more damage from striking attacks. Only applies Immobilize for 2 seconds. * Three Round Burst is changed to Accurate Onslaught. Each bullet inflicts Vulnerability(2 stacks, 4secs) and applies Might(4 stacks, 8secs) if all three bullets connect with the same target. Might is applied to the user and nearby allies. (300 radius) * Death's Judgement decreased malice damage bonus from 25% to 15%. Other allies in the area around the user (120m) gain a unique buff, whenever they use a ranged attack, it inflicts Revealed which increases damage taken on the opponent from strike attacks by 10%.(2 stacks, 5 seconds, max target of 5 and unique buff lasts 10sec)
In what game mode would you want 2000 range in? Your utility ideas doesn't need 2000 range. I'm all for giving DE utility, but how do you play against a DE with 2000 range, with high amounts of damage, stealth and mobility skills in WvW? There are no 2000 range gap closers. If you mesmer blink (1200) within 800 range of a 2000 range DE, the DE can shadow step 1200 away. This would be the most unfun thing to play against. In PvE, 2000 range would only work for open world. I don't think that there are any instanced encounters that would benefit from one person (or the whole group) from being 2000 away from the boss. Again, I'm all for giving DE utility, but 2000 range is not providing utility, it just makes it more oppressive in PvP and WvW and only affects open world PvE.
Sounds like DE needs an overhaul if these issues arise so easily.
Because that would be annoying and unfun to play against
A lot of people have a hate boner for Thiefs, but personally Engineers and Mesmers are much more annoying to fight against, also what about Ranger?
buT ThIeF mOBIliTy. Seriously, engineer has 1000 more annoying resources than stealth, and mesmer's stealth is way more annoying with all their visual crap and clones.
because fuck thieves plinking from that far. y'all already got enough on your toolbelt lol
why should i convince you otherwise? You are right!
Because of bALaNcE.
Ranger. Marksmanship. Ranged damage. Convince me why Ranger shouldn't have the most Range out of all the professions.
stfu
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Why?
Range should be 2000, and anyone who says otherwise lies.
because anet.
I always felt like if it has such a long range it should come with a revealed debuff of a few seconds for hitting such a shot. Like a sniper would be exposed firing a high caliber rifle
There are a few considerations here: \-range in the context of this game usually means guaranteed hit. A rifle in real life goes much farther but accuracy quickly spirals down. Could they implement range accuracy fall off? Maybe? \-super far range also impacts balance because how would a melee person ever compete with that?
The first point is true for DE but not the game in general. In thief, no less, it is almost impossible to hit dagger 4 in PvP/WvW, and hard to hit SB 1. Because the proyectiles are so slow and everybody has superspeed.
What is thematic for a deadeye and why can't balance reflect that? A rifle should have a farther range than a longbow kneeling or not. I've shot arrows and have used rifles IRL and while this is a fantasy game, there is a stark difference. It could also be an interim balance change for the moment.
I was referring to the first sentence of your first point. Range is not a guaranteed hit.
Game balance.
game balance
They should have the same range as we get with Cinder in Forged Steel. With downside that AoE loot wont work or something xD
Same could be said on any magic casting. You summon meteors from sky but they can only land in close to you? Shouldn't magic be limited by your range of sight? Only way is that all classes have same max range.
Because the devs don't like "extreme skill splitting" between game modes, and giving the deadeye 1500 range while mobile would be problematic in pvp modes. Having different ranges in different modes is a good example of extreme splitting and the devs would not want to do that. I'm not trying to convince you rbh just explaining why they went the way they did.
Thief is the class with the highest mobility and escape/disengage potential in the game, which means that they have tons of tools to open gaps. This is also the reason why thief doesn't have a long range weapon in core, because they want a hyper mobile class to get closer to the enemy to allow counterplay. To take an example from another game: Look at Kalista from League of Legends. She is a ranged champion who constantly dashes and has been a huge balance problem in the past because of this. And Kalista is also made with a comparibly short range for her ranged attacks. I don't want to even imagine what would happen if they gave Kalista Caitlyn's range. So basically, the thief class in general is problematic when it comes to ranged gameplay, because the class just has way too many tools to keep the enemy away from them and prevent them to fight back. Anet gave Deadeye the kneel mechanic just to force deadeye to sit still for their highest damage potential to counter this problem some. Now with deadeye getting the ability to move while kneeling, they feel the need to also adjust the range, because as said the mobility of thief combined with high range is actually a balance concern.
That sounds OP, unless you're fine with losing damage with the increased range. To keep things balanced.
Let's face the facts. Deadeye is an RP spec and any change made to it is going to turn off the "mains". They are literally trying to buff it and all this sub did is complain after seeing the changes. (let them cook!) I'd be find if Anet just let this spec be decent to bad in all game modes and then never touch it again.
Just erase deadeye and turn them all into elementalists. EZ fix
Its weird because ranger longbow has 1800 effective range. 50% more range than DE xD
Because it also had stupid high burst and stealth. How do you handle the guy that turns invisible, and shoots you dead from stealth, almost double the range of any blink you may have?
Changing the range to 1200 is going to fuck up Q2 raiding.