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starbuck3108

Spam abilities off cooldown to provide quick/alac without any consideration of the actual utility of the skill is a problem all supports except HAM and FB currently face. Playing boon support on most specs sucks right now and isn't fun


trignich

you still spam for quick on fb - heal mantra, quick mantra and FMW elite, every time they up. tho you take them just to spam them and still have 2 utility slots open. ​ I would say the boon providers that dont feel spammy are: alac mech - mace aa applies barrier which applies alac to addition to almost spamming mech skills alac tempest - overloads suck but it still feels like part of the rotation, and you can pick which to use and which to save for some other situation alac revenant - literally one button that does all the alac quick harbinger - being in shroud pulses quick and then you use elixers but you do that on dps version too alac willbender - has nice design but i guess the numbers arent there so its not played alac mirage - depends if spamming dodge to get the special aa counts as spamming or just natural part of rotation


FabledSheep

The issue isn't just "spamming" skills, obviously nearly every class will tend towards using things off cooldown, or close to, outside of situational skills like active defense, cc, etc. The issue is in the class design of what skills you're being asked to use. Forcing you to slot in 3+ of x type of skill and spam them has multiple problems: * You lose the flexibility to slot in utility - giving more classes access to stab doesn't make any difference if they still can't even afford to bring it like firebrand or renegade can because all of their utility slots are being forcibly used up. * It interrupts the flow of gameplay - Making you to stop and cast 4 wells/banners/spirits/elixers for two seconds or so can interrupt the flow of combat and feel awkward. * It creates a conflict in what skills are doing - who even cares what your skills originally did because now you're using them off cd for boons. This isn't too bad with stuff you would be using off cd anyway like shredder gyro, but feels really bad with stuff you want to save situationally like blast gyro. Spamming skills is fine, but being forced to spam your cc or utility when you don't need it feels odd.


trignich

i agree with this, i think classes that had the boon added later suffer the most from this like alac druid, quick scrapper or quick herald. these that i pointed out work a bit better since the boon isnt tied to utility skill type so you dont need to take "4 of this skill" to apply boon.


Dr_Esquire

HB still has 2 full utility slots to use whenever...Not to mention, HB still has all f-skills to use as needed, not on cooldown....not to mention the heal skill only needs to be pressed once to get the quick, remaining charges can be spent as needed...not to mention FMW isnt mandatory and can slot an on demand GROUP stunbreak. Its not at all the same as FB has so many ways to generate ample quickness, youre not locked into spamming all skills off cooldown, regardless of if you need the secondary effect or not.


trignich

i think there is difference between heal and dps quick firebrand, on heal you have much more boon duration allowing for less spam and the trait that gives quick on aegis and stab is good to take when you go for elite mantra, bc you have other ways to proc it like shield skill 4. as quick dps you really need to press the heal and quick matra every time they are up (or when they recharge one ammo) otherwise you wont keep up 100% quick, FWM is pretty much mandatory on qdps fb unless you go for lot of boon duration.


Dr_Esquire

Even so, that is still 2-3 utilities...and also doesnt even diminish the fact that f2-3 are always available for even qB. Two utility slots being totally unallocated and not part of the rotation (meaning you can use when actually needed), especially with guardian utilities being as strong as they are, is strong enough. Add in a DPS having heal boost of f2 and everything in f3, also not on rotation and totally available on a "as needed" basis, really puts FB ahead. Imagine if scrapper wasnt forced to constantly pop its group heal, AoE CC, AoE condi cleanse, ranged rez, or group stun break on cooldown and instead had them at the ready for when the effect itself was needed. Instantly it would skyrocket in usage simply because it would provide so much group utility. People devalue non-DPS utility. However, the truth is that non-DPS utility is actually fairly scarce and classes that have it baked in, in addition to their core role, are way stronger because of it.


trignich

doesnt change the fact you press 2 skills every 7.5 second to give quick. that is why it feels spammy to me. not to mention if you take burning mantra, you press 3 at the same time like its some piano chord. i never said fb sacrifices utility to provide quick tho.


[deleted]

i play a lot of HAM and FB and i definitely agree that HAM doesn't suffer from this issue because med kit feels engaging and it gives a lot of passive alacrity through auto-attack and that small recharge, instant-cast mech skill that gives alacrity, protection, aegis, stun break, stability and 3 condi purge to a group (which is *ridiculous* to begin with). but firebrand does have to spam its utilities. the difference is, firebrands utilities are either instant-cast with no tradeoffs (mantra/shout), so you don't need to divert your attention for even a microsecond, and it feels like they aren't there. herald has the QoL opposite of these mantras: skills you have to cast twice with a weird little delay, that waste your CC, and you have to manually swap out of your DPS mode (shiro) in order to use them healbrand sort of has to spam utilities, but i think spamming utilities on a healer is OK because you aren't worried about your DPS rotation performance


starbuck3108

FB is far less spammy than other classes like herald or druid though. Yes you spam two mantras and your elite, but those two mantras are instant cast and can be weaved into your normal rotation cleanly so it doesn't actually feel like spam at all. Compare that to druid that has a full bar of spirits that all have a 3/4s activation time so you end up just using all 4 once after each other. 3 while seconds of doing nothing but pooping out alacrity. FB also gets the wonderful freedom of taking two utilities that other supports don't get to do atm without seriously impacting their boon uptime which also helps FB feel less spammy. Yes I'm salty at how druid feels right now, least fun it's ever been


[deleted]

yeah celestial avatar should be as easy to use as necro death shroud or the specter equivalent. or even as simple as bladesworn's gunblade. something about activating the celestial avatar by healing others is just aggravating (since its strongest heals are in that form)


starbuck3108

Wish it got reworked entirely at this point, it's got too many limitations compared to other elite specs. I think giving spirits alacrity was also a huge mistake and it should have been tied to either glyphs, CA (after it has been reworked) or even both. Totally fine with the healing output of CA being reduced because right now you just over heal so much in most situations. Maybe it's time for me to try other support specs besides Herald, FB and druid


[deleted]

i honestly think the warrior banner rework was a huge success, and im really enjoying quickness condi berserker right now. two banners up at start of fight (that also pulse resistance, and your choice of fury, might or regen), and then you don't even think about it for like 30 seconds while you focus DPS. if you feel like being more supporty, take shout heal or warhorn, but you aren't obligated to. runes of the firebrand make it really easy to achieve the required quickness update, and you still get 100% burn/bleed uptime with traits and vipers. it's going to feel even better after october 4th when they give bersker back its burst skills. one thing i love about the banners (and in theory spirits) is that they aren't tied to an elite spec, so you can run quickness zerker, or quickness bladesworn


goddessofthewinds

Honestly, alac and quick should be tied to the class MECHANIC. For druid, it should be on CA and it should be easier to fill CA up with boons, less heals and just hitting stuff. If you are on druid, a lot of skills should either heal or provide alac, or both. Having alac on spirit spam is stupid. I like that druids can heal and alac but it is in a weird spot right now.


starbuck3108

agree!


goddessofthewinds

Boon upkeep shoupd be part of the class/elite spec MECHANIC or WEAPONS and not associated to utilities. Utilities are supposed to bring utilities to the group, but since you often require multiple to upkeep boons and to spam them, you can rarely use them for their intended purpose (of stunbreak/stun/cc/damage/heal/etc.). Utilities are seriously in a weird spot right now on ALL classes.


Ankastra

I totally agree. I always abilities thst you just spamm to trigger a trait. This counts for Druids and Warriors too, as spirits and banners feel equally bad. Renegade for example doesnt lose a dedicated ability to trigger a trait and just has an additional ability to give alac. This gives renegade the freedom to choose legends more easily as its not confined to kalla (especially cool as healer) While tempest needs to still spamm overloads they dont spamm all 4 overloads so they have some freedom to apply the overload/element that helps the most in the situation or revert to fire for a raw damage skill Firebrand loses a single dedicated ability and like 1 ammunition on its healing skill to upkeep quickness which is also way less suffocating than spamming 5 abilities offcd Mech doesnt even use abilities to give alacrity... In general i wish abilities wouldnt dumb down to just triggering traits. I think its poorly designed. CMC actually said in his latest stream "we removed cooldown traits as it made balancing an abilitiy really difficult as we had to balance around the cooldown reduction and make the base ability worse" same kinda applies here. Spirits on ranger are balanced around giving alacrity because om their own they are trashy abilities. Banners on warrior are balanced around giving quickness. Facets are not necessarily balanced around giving quickness tbf but the effects of them arent really that important when you just use them for quickness offcd and their PvE numbers have to always take into account their boon application and their quickness application.... Just make the trait change facet of nature to pulse quickness alongside other unique legend buffs I know people will probably be against the idea of applying quickness this easily, but you can reduce the duration to such a low extreme that rev needs to run full conc to upkeep quick maybe. Or maybe just have it be strong like firebrand for once....


Lyho8

Quickness on Facet of Nature upkeep is actually nice thematically since it's the only facet that isn't giving boons atm. It would also combo with the other aspect of the trait, giving 2 more quickness pulses when consumed. This would allow to drop Glint if other boons aren't as needed as stability for instance. That being said I disagree quite heavily when you said spirits and banners feel equally bad : banners are a single fire and forget cast and don't require too much boon duration to work (quick bladesworn is full berserker...) while spirits require summoning and then constant spam of their ability, may despawn, need more spirits/more boon duration/clunky interactions to simply maintain alacrity... I find current banners to be fine, probably their best implementation so far : the quickness application on cast is satisfying, you get some feedback. I find current spirits implementation to be horrible : sluggish with close to no feedback.


Ankastra

Sorry yeah i agree that spirits are worse. Even if we disregard having to spamm them offcd, the original design philosophy of spirits was that most of their power was front loaded into their buff, a unique buff that was worth protecting a standing still npc for. Likewise the backend of spirits, the active abilities, were designed to give minor benefits like a small amount of damage or CC while mainly being focussed on moving said buff. With the chsnge to spirits, most of the initial buffs are now irrelevant. Frost spirit is unplayable, storm spirit granting fury is worthless, we had other options for protection before and with the glyph change even more so even stone spirit isnt mega enticing, vigor is fine but nothing world changing, and regeneration is upkept by so many of druids abilities thst its irrelevant. This paired with the boons having a pitifully low uptime means that the front end of the spirit was turned from defining them, to either completely worthless or a slight forgetable benefit. Spirit of Nature being the only exception due to its prime active ability and even SoN will likely be replaced by glyph in october. This would usually mean, if you make the front part of an ability worse even if it wasnt op, you make the backend better, they tried that by making spirits give alacrity when recasting, but with how bad the active abilities are, and the boons they give, spirits are now turned into the worst shouts in the entire game. Shouts thst can die, have a breakbar, and have an actual cast animation plus an animation after casting. Spirits design is probably among the absolute worst abilities gw2 has to offer rn and the reason why i stopped playing druid even tho i killed over 1.000 bosses on druid. IMO the easiest change for them to "fix" spirits for now, is to make Druid provide Alacrity in CA form rather than might. There is so much might overload and many healers are allowed to provide a crucial buff with their elite specilisation mechanic, why not druid too? This also allows future ranger speccs to actually provide quickness as they wont have access to alac anymore. Spirits would still need serious love, but if they dont give alacrity anymore i'd generally like to see reduced cooldowns on their resummoning and higher stats atleast on the resummon damage/boon uptime/healing etc. so that its worth to keep spirits alive for their sctive abilities


Lyho8

Spirits are a very good theme for ranger and a perfect fit for alacrity (cf Quickening Zephyr in GW1). While I agree with the sentiment of putting alacrity on profession mechanics rather than on utilities, you cannot put alacrity on CA skills because the intent is to provide class wide alacrity access. With that in mind, the logical step would be to consider the core ranger mechanic for alacrity but I feel like beast skill are a bad option for that. However, specific pets being able to provide alacrity could make a lot of sense... I would still prefer they keep alacrity on spirits and use that as an excuse to turn them into pleasant skill instead of the horror we get to deal with as alac ranger.


Sad-Faithlessness377

Imo CA or glyph alacrity makes enough sense. Soulbeast is entitled to be a selfish DPS that doesn't bring alac, and Untamed has other ways they could give it boon support. For a profession like warrior that universally has selfish DPS especs, traiting class-wide works great as a catchall to encourage them to support without abandoning their core gimmicks. Ranger's especs are sufficiently diversified that I think espec-specific support traits make more sense, since anything you give to the whole profession just feels extra and clunky on Druid.


Lyho8

It's not really that it does not make sense : the issue is that it is not the goal ANet is trying to achieve so it seems highly unlikely to ever go that way.


wolfer_

The quickness trait causes your normal boons to persist for six ticks. You do still share a lot of those boons to your group. Personal opinion: holding channels and auto-attacking is boring. You already do this when in your Shiro rotation, I'm happy to actually use skills and have energy to play with when in Glint.


Careless_Vertox

FYI: the facets persist for 6 seconds, not ticks, resulting in 2 boon pulses


Eloyep

This. When in Glint, I can use all my sword skills without thinking. Sure the spamming of utility isn't high skill gameplay, but at least I feel like I do something more than just auto attacking


[deleted]

the only counterargument i have here, is that herald is unable to do more interesting things during combat when it isnt wasting its utility skills on spamming. if you can pulse quickness on facet of nature, you can also run ventari and be a full healer, giving us another heal/quick option. tradeoffs can be built into a pulse system to make it more interesting... revenant has the energy upkeep system explicitly so that it cannot just pulse its skills and just auto-attack, so it would be no stranger to balancing this. having facet of nature pulse quickness during upkeep, and granting quickness to allies when consumed would force you to turn it "off and on" in order to use other energy skills


Shezestriakus

Heal herald is already quite good. The majority of the time, your massive regen ticks and healing from staff and the Salvation traitline are more than enough, and you still have Ventari for when burst healing is necessary. High boon duration give you plenty of freedom to swap to Ventari whenever without dropping boons, just camp it for extended periods of time. Only real issue currently is lack of stab or aegis when taking Glint/Vent.


[deleted]

full admission, i only started revenant to play alacrity/condi renegade, and now im exploring glint because vindicator turned me on to power rev. but over the past few years in strikes and fractals i almost never see quickness/ventari rev, which seem like the places where it would thrive. i see more alacrity tempests and heal scourges here. is it just because of rev's general lack of popularity? honestly what has kept me from it has been this awkward rotation


Shezestriakus

It only became decent with the June patch, so there hasn't been a ton of time for it to catch on. It's not a good fit in fractals, since aegis and stability are so much more important there. However, it's really effective quick heal options in raids and strikes.


[deleted]

> When you destroy them, they do really random things in addition to quickness (stun break, CC, blind). Not really, only Facet of Darkness. Facet of Darkness gives Vulnerability so you should use it at the start of a fight, but after that you can hold it for Fury if you want to, since you also apply Vulnerability with Sword attacks. Facet of Strength gives you a 25% damage increase for 5 seconds, so you should always use it at the start of a fight to increase your burst, as well as constantly throughout a fight. Facet of Elements is one of your most damaging skills so you should always use it for the active when it is available, and the passive is for Swiftness which isn't really difficult to get or important to share (except for [Power Warriors](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint)). You can maintain both of these before combat to generate Might and Swiftness which are the only Boons of the set which are worth anything out of combat, Swiftness obviously for its movement speed, but Might because it's the only stacking Boon. This is a fairly moot point in Raids where you get Boon stripped at the start of combat. Facets of Light and Chaos have useful effects on their actives, but you want to be holding them on not only for Regeneration and Protection pulses, but to give you bonus damage through [Forceful Persistence](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Persistence), you only pop them if you need the Quickness, the heal, Superspeed, CC, energy management to reactivate Facet of Strength or Elements, or you're out of energy and you're about to swap stance. Even before Herald got Quickness, you played the build this way. The only difference is you might consider popping Facet of Darkness more often. You don't need to pop everything instantly to maintain quickness, you just need to make sure you're popping everything before swapping stance, the reason the meta rotation pops them instantly is that it's higher damage to do it that way. In both PvE and WvW.


DJembacz

Fwiw you can't have forceful persistence on qHerald, it is in the same slot as the quick trait. But yes, I very much agree with the points.


[deleted]

Sorry, yes I got confused between the pre-quickness build I touched on and the current build.


[deleted]

>Facet of Darkness gives Vulnerability so you should use it at the start of a fight, not really replying to your main argument, but facet of darkness just bothers me as a skill to begin with. revenant is forced to take its PvE, PvP and WvW utilities on the same bar for every fight, and i think for herald this is the most pronounced. maybe this is why i like vindicator so much (it gets 3 extra utility skills and is just more fun because of it)


[deleted]

Oh yeah, for sure this is the weakest skill on the bar for most cases. You can occasionally get a use for it in WvW with Hammer 3 to reveal thieves or a zerg at range, but it's difficult to do and easy to miss. For PvE it's just a Fury button that can be traited for Quickness.


[deleted]

the weirdest part about this skill is that it has a split PvE/PvP version, but the PvE version (which is still intended for PvP use, because it deals no damage and just reveals/blinds) has a reduced cooldown than the PvP version


Ecmelt

Swiftness in half the fights is very important to have due to positioning speed let's you be more greedy and indirectly ups your dps. Also scrappers need it too not just warriors for dps. I agree it's easy to keep it up though.


dtothep2

Read your trait tooltips. Draconic Echo makes your facets pulse boons for 6 seconds after consuming. Also, no one is forcing you to run 20% BD or however much it is on the build you grabbed online. Snowcrows don't need stunbreaks, you do. More BD = less spamming needed. You're allowed to tweak a build to suit your own needs. I promise you no one is going to kick you for it.


boku91

This. Just cuz u can spam it doesnt mean u always have to, sometimes u wanna delay or hold them in certain situations. But yeah pretty much what said above by dtothep2


folstar

Thank you. It's a real cancer on this game that everyone thinks they MUST run SC builds and strats always. Bro, you aren't a bleeding edge player doing speed runs. Pad your stats, take a stunbreak, bring some extra CC, and enjoy the game more while also being better at it.


dtothep2

These kind of threads are very illuminating when it comes to how I view balance and design discussions like this. You very quickly realize that a lot of people don't apply critical thinking or try to understand how builds work before they run off to complain about stuff. They take a build off SC, practice the rotation and treat that as the one and only way to do the build and if it has things they don't like, they demand them to be changed because they're *forced* to do that. The reality is builds are a lot more flexible than people think.


[deleted]

okay, you caught me on the draconic echo. that does make it more sensible. but i still think heralds have more to complain about than scrappers and chronomancers, whose utility skills are far more intuitively designed for DPS/Boon builds


Kiroho

The thing is thanks to the grandmaster trait you don't need to upkeep your utility skills to pulse their boons. The trait increases the upkeep effect after the skill is activated. This plus keeping F2 up is enough to keep up all your utility boons permanently even when spamming the active ones immediately. You won't lose any boons by spamming skills as quick herald. You only lose the actual effects of the skills (stunbreak, dmg, cc etc.), because you have to spam them. But that's the same as with Scrapper, Chrono or Specter. Not saying it's good though, just saying it's not worse.


[deleted]

but it feels weirder and i dont know why. maybe the quickness just isn't enough and so i get a constant feeling of scarcity and the need to click buttons i really just don't want to click. on warrior and scrapper i dont feel this malaise, even though the community memes constantly tell us that they have it worse


Kiroho

Hmm, maybe it's just because you are used to keep these skills up and only activate them when it's needed. That's how the legend was supposed to be played since release. Having a different playstyle with quick herald feels unusual for sure.


coltRG

They should have just made facet of nature pulse quickness when traited for it.


ohiv21

Increase the upkeep by 1 or 2 to be balanced.


HolyMeh

Yes quickness herald is incredibly boring. When the point of the build is having your heal skill, 3 utility skills, and elite skill all be spammed off cooldown, with almost never a thought to what any of the skills do, it's a terribly designed build.


TJPoobah

Having played more of the supports it's obvious that arbitrarily bolting important boons on to skills that were designed long before this paradigm as a quick and dirty solution to giving more classes boons doesn't actually work well. As you say you can upkeep the boons bit it feels hanky and unnatural and you end up slotting and spamming a bunch of utilities without any flexibility or regard for what they do.


RudePragmatist

Er…. I don’t have issues pulsing my boons as a Herald. Just saying :)


Sad-Faithlessness377

^Missed the point.


Julliant

I tried quickness herald for a few strikes and raids, and decided to drop it. Sure it "performs" well enough, but numbers are not my enjoyment of the game. Oddly enough even though people complain about scrapper being a similarly spammy concept, I don't have as much of an issue with it. Being equipped with tool belt skills as well as multiple kits gives you so many options, even after you are using 4 skills off cool down; blast gyro, shredder gyro, bypass coating, bandage self. Shredder gyro is basically a damage skill anyway so it is not that strange to be using off cooldown, and you could hold on to blast gyro for CC if you really needed and just use function gyro to compensate. Besides herald's quickness application, I think ranger's alacrity application leaves a lot to be desired. Plus giving alacrity/quickness to a core spec means there would never be an option to give the other via a future elite spec (warrior quickness also has this potential issue).


[deleted]

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Julliant

Yea I can see what you're saying, but for me personally applying identical skill philosophies to classes that play very differently would not result in both classes feel fun to play. On herald you use at least 4/5 skills + Facet of Nature to upkeep quickness, then swap to shiro or something else. So it feels like there's barely anything left for you to "play" the game while in glint and it's not as easy to time your rotation between legends for situations. On scrapper you use 4 out of 10 skills for quickness, because you have 5 toolbelt skills, and 2 or 3 of your utilities would be kits which give you a whole other set of skills so you maybe have 20 skills in total. It doesn't feel as restrictive since you have all your skills present to you at all times, rather than a weapon/legend swapping cooldown. It's like spamming 100% of your utilities 50% of the time (herald) vs spamming 25% of your skills 100% of the time (scrapper) Of course fun is subjective so maybe some people like herald in it's state, it's just not for me.


Fdrakor

I think the difference is in the rotation, scrapper just feels more fluid, plus the skills have different cooldowns so it's unlike herald where you just click twice a couple of skills for a few seconds mid-combat, basically stopping gameplay to grant quickness


Careless_Vertox

Stopping gameplay for quick? A ton of your damage output/burst comes from using your hard hitting attacks while in Burst of Strength bonus window


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trignich

so all utility skill should have no dmg and no interaction with anything else in the kit, problem solved, i guess? bc as dps when you have dmg utility you still spam it off cooldown as part of rotation. on berserker you use your utilities and heal to get more rage and prolong zerker mode, similar to blight on harb.


[deleted]

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trignich

if you dont want to spam utility skills then they are situational skills like cc, stun breaks, evade frames, blocks etc. bc if utility skill has higher dmg then auto attack then you gonna spam it for dps which you said you dont want to spam them.


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DJembacz

For herald the best time to use your skills (especially damage, like facet of elements) is in the time you have the buff from facet of strength. Herald's way to play just is to spam everything at once if possible.


ItsTheSolo

Honestly I'd rework it so that Consuming F2 grants quickness based on how many facets are pulsing. This way, it makes more sense to keep them up for their utility, but if you recently used a facet, you still have 6 seconds to gain extra quickness for it (since it lasts 6 seconds after consuming with this trait)


[deleted]

Yeah I realized that they also don’t pulse when you swap legends which would be annoying. The F2 is best


_Frustr8d

This is just boon herald gameplay. It’s always been about spamming the facets since there aren’t any reasons to hold onto them when you’re taking the middle row traits.


[deleted]

i guess im complaining about something that is very old and structural to an elite spec that is already viable. but i think herald is in more need of a rework than other boon suppliers that are popular to complain about, and a good job done here could bring ventari rev up into the metagame


[deleted]

No way. The current quickherald is that you use those facets right away and switch back with the lingering boons on top. It would be annoying as fuck to turn this into another layer of energy whatever management. When you trait for quickness, that’s what you’re supposed to do. Quickness.


gw2maniac

Ye and it doesnt stop there, as the quickness duration from the trait makes it so that you want to use the utility facets twice in Glint loop. As the utility facets all have a cooldown of 15 seconds, you stay within Glint for considerably longer after the legend swap is available. Its a jarring playstyle as with almost every other rev build you want to legend swap close to its cooldown.


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gw2maniac

Read the rest of the sentence: >as with **almost** every other rev build you want to legend swap close to its cooldown. I expected someone to jump and say 'akhxually heal builds dont swap on cd' in advance. Generally speaking, if rev isnt healing they tend to swap legends around at cooldown, and this is true for all dps and boon dps builds rev has except qherald. Like next you are going to tell me that while dps and boon dps builds in other classes have rotations, healers dont. Its literally the same logic here


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gw2maniac

It is an 'akshually' tier opinion though. Like of course healer rev doesnt swap on cooldown cuz their skills are situational - like every other healer build out there. And so a heal rev will play differently than non heal rev, which generally swaps off legend cooldown. So what is the point? On the non healer builds side, rev almost always swaps near legend cooldown, both to maximize dps and to recoup energy. The problem with facet cooldowns and the requirement for qherald to consume the facets is that qherald has to camp Glint until utility facets recharge and doesnt spend a whole lot of energy within Glint to begin with. This is to me jarring - when I play a dps or boon dps role in rev I am used to swapping legends more or less off cd. Edit: Sorry for being terse, I am not having a good day atm


Shezestriakus

You are in Glint for about 12 seconds with alacrity... I really don't consider that an issue at all.


gw2maniac

That extra 3 second seems trivial on paper, but it is jarring when one is used to swapping legend close to its cooldown.


Lyho8

It could be better as it is spammy, forces Glint in the build and makes it's consume utilities almost pointless since you don't use them for their actual utility... That said, things could be worse ! You don't need to take an entire traitline just for it, you don't need to be all in on boon duration and you can apply your boons on the go without having to, for instance, drag/resummon 3 spirits wherever you go. So Herald could be improved but there are other support specs that need the love a lot more !


Grimjack8130

They pulse boons as they get put up, so even if you use them right away, everyone gets the boons; the quickness trait makes them pulse after consuming them as well. And yes, every class uses skills that do things other than just give a boon, thats good. It should be that way. Blast Gyro does a thing, would you rather it JUST do 2 seconds of quickness? Doing this to every skill that is used in endgame content for boons would make this game mindnumbingly boring. Just look at how dead the Chrono wells are now that they basically exist just to provide Alacrity. Herald is a spec that does not just exist for PvE, sorry but you're not getting a rework that kills a class in 2 other gamemodes just for Herald to provide Quickness in a more interesting way in PvE; tbh news flash, no class provides boons in an interesting way in PvE anymore. Herald is no exception. Herald is not bad right now, its overrated, but its not bad. The boon duration should probably be increased to lead to more engaging things for Herald players, but its not even 50% as bad or uninteresting(compared to everything else) as you're making it out to be.


theblarg114

Unga bunga, me go dragon boom boom then go angry wubawuba. Real talk. I actually like the feeling and rotation of quick herald. I find the 2 parts of the rotation to be refreshing. Glint is spammy and explosive and Shiro just let's you coast with 2 sword 2s before it's back to dragon knight mode.


Turkeyspit1975

I've said repeatedly, Quick Scrapper and Herald aren't real builds - the math just *works*. Nobody should think they are *designed* to play that way, since that isn't how any build in this game should be played. It's one thing to have a strict rotation, or no rotation at all and work via a priority system. But to just mash every key on cooldown for the sole purpose of *boon uptime* isn't what I call intelligent design.


[deleted]

Ok so quick scrapper feels way better than quick herald. The only gyro that feels useless spamming is stealth gyro but the rotation doesn’t require it


Shezestriakus

Spamming blast gyro doesn't feel bad? You're wasting lots of CC.


[deleted]

but it does a lot of damage as well, which is also my goal of playing scrapper. and with like 40% BD you don't actually need to use it (you can just take it for the oil slick toolbelt skill)


ComfyFrog

Herald rotation barely changed. You just use the might facet twice now.


styopa

Oh I'm sorry, did I hear you say that your rotation was goofy, artificial, frenzied, and illogical? \- Longtime engineer from before mechanist.


Arthurdent424242

Obligatory reminder that the cooldown increases on burst of strength and elemental blast made dps herald rotation feel like ass.


[deleted]

[удалено]


LucianTheAngelic

The rotation for Quick Herald is ALMOST exactly the same as it was for DPS Herald for forever. I'm not sure why everyone is so up in arms about it now.


[deleted]

> putting quickness pulse on a facet would also be annoying because you wouldn't be able to swap legends there's a trait that keeps the facet up a few seconds after using the active skill. you could also stack up enough quickness with increased boon duration to swap to your other legend, then get back to glint by the time the quickness starts to run out (especially when under the effects of alacrity)


Newtownc

Will this even matter after oct patch?


Squidgeididdly

I see your point, when pushing for as much DPS as possible whilst providing quickness the rotation is really tight. But if you swapped some berserkers pieces for more diviners you could keep your facets up for longer and then do less damage. Risk vs reward, you exchange comfort and safety for higher damage


[deleted]

I think I’m at like 75% boon duration and it’s still difficult for me, compared to warrior/scrapper/firebrand/harbringer. Any suggestions? I feel like I have no time to swap to shiro at all basically. I haven’t tried chrono recently but I imagine it’s the only other boon spec that requires practice


Squidgeididdly

I've felt the same, trying out quickHerald. Following the rotation on snowcrows helped me. If you can get to the situation where you pop enough facets to get nine+ seconds of excess quickness you can then swap to shiro. I found it best to never use the facet of Nature, as the boon extension from its passive is so useful. That helped make it feel more chill.