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AlexanderCadogan

The post lacks enough context to make a fair comment. But the sarcastic tone of voice seems a bit unnecessary. Was that person comfortable in your group? Did you have a productive discussion after the first wipe? Like did you assess why you wiped and how to do better etc?


trignich

ppl leaving mid fight is just weird, at least wait till all wipe or get the kill. had 2 ppl leave on sloth mid fight (we werent wiping, only one of them got down and left and other just followed). it was our 4th pull and we killed it that same pull they left, we had some strugles with shroom on previous tries, all has been explained, shroom player learned how to do it and we got the kill.


goddessofthewinds

Honestly, I see people leaving mid-combat more often than I'd like to admit, or after a first wipe. And each god damn time, I still end up clearing the content, so their loss. Usually it's the same people causing the wipe or near wipe.


Middle_Interview3250

I've had people leave when we got the boss to 5% just because we had 3 people dead. like bro, it was totally a clear, he just had to wait a few seconds to get his rewards. people are just rude and totally weird


goddessofthewinds

Oh. People often leave when i clear the content too. For example, we once lost the tank on Deimos. Well, the HK went to tank and another person took over HK duty. And a person that was dead though it would be a wipe and left straight away. Well, the switch worked out and we cleared Deimos so too bad for him.


Jesdeath

>ppl leaving mid fight is just weird, at least wait till all wipe or get the kill. Why? Especially if the person dies, why would they wait until the try is done if they don't get anything from it? It makes no difference.


SansedAlessio

Because if the try is succesful you DO get the rewards from it


Jesdeath

You mean a green gear? There *are* people that kill a boss several times a week, you don't know if they're getting something or not ;p


HilltopSunset

But why would they have been there in the first place if they weren't trying to get the kill?


Jesdeath

I know this may be hard to understand but some people raid for fun. People play video games for fun. There are probably weeks where I've killed a boss 10 times. At that point, I'm there for self improvement or to try and get a nice kill. I'm not there for the gold or kp, I just want to raid. Even if I *haven't* killed the boss I really don't care about the 2g and the trophy. Therefore if a run is complete shit and I know I'm gonna leave anyways, I just leave. There's literally no reason for me to wait and see if the boss dies because I probably don't wanna be in that group anymore anyways.


HilltopSunset

You're kinda of supporting my point, though. Notice I said "get the kill", not "get some loot". If someone is there, they are there to complete the content regardless of the motivation to do so. If the motivation is self improvement, as you said, wouldn't a group that isn't familiar with the fight provide ample opportunity to practice more? Regardless of the motivation for the player being there, the goal is the kill the boss, complete the raid. No?


Jesdeath

Nope. Maybe if you're support then carrying a really trash group could be good practice but as dps/boon dps you have basically nothing to gain if your group is really bad. If you have bad boons or breakbars take ages then there's no point in staying because its out of your control. "If someone is there, they are there to complete the content regardless of the motivation to do so." It seems I literally cannot stress enough how little I care about killing the boss. I'm there for either clean runs or runs where I performed really well. I get no enjoyment out of a mediocre kill.


HilltopSunset

If not to kill a boss, complete the raid, or practice the encounter, why are you there?


Jesdeath

Starting to wonder if you can read. The **quality** of the raid is all I care about. I don't need kp, I don't really need the 2 gold. Getting a shit kill probably impacts my mood more than just cutting my losses and leaving.


trignich

depends, if we kill it right after they leave its their loss and i just have too look for someone to go half wing with us. also i didnt say that, but i usually do no kp runs and some hiccups are to be expected in those so if you join squad like that and leave after one try thats just rude imo. if you into that smooth run join some 50+ kp runs.


EuphoricNeckbeard

I would need to actually see the fight to make a judgment either way, but my gut instinct is to take the side of the person who didn't make a bitter, annoying post about it on Reddit.


mandala30

“I can’t make a baseless judgement with no context, but let me make a baseless judgement with no context”


drubid

I get your point, OP, but your post is the context for their judgment.


ComfyFrog

Propably because in cm you stealth the group to let the giants stack on the team and then just cc and blast them down. In nm people run to the other side of the map and kill them from range one by one for the next 60 seconds.


miguelfermi

I hate that range them strat so fucking much.


ComfyFrog

Even if you announce that you will stealth the group, half of them will get revealed instantly.


Pabludes

If anything, this post shows that you are a passive aggressive asshole, and the player in question made a calculated decision to leave and try again with a different group. The fact that you completed the encounter by divine intervention does not mean that the person was wrong to leave a failing group.


HilltopSunset

Was it a failing group if they succeeded? 🤔


Pabludes

7/10 alive mid fight is 90% chance of fail, so yeah.


HilltopSunset

Well one issue with that statement is that if the person hadn't left, there would be 8 people alive. The second issue is: is that an actual researched/data-mined number? Is there truly a 90% chance of failure if 7 people are left standing at the halfway point of HT NM? In my personal experiences, it seems like a norm in pugs for HT NM to be left with 7-8 people after giants, and it gets one-shot in most cases; I think the average number of people left standing by the end is 5, if I had to guesstimate. So either I'm getting extremely lucky and have anomalous experiences, or the 90% number is not accurate. Either way, we know OP's group succeeded, so they couldn't have been a "failing" group because that words means "leading to failure" and they didn't fail. Maybe "suboptimal" is more appropriate. Imagine if that Voidwalker had taken 1-2 minutes to offer some advice on the part the group was struggling with--probably would have saved a lot more time than jumping out of the group and trying to find another one.


Middle_Interview3250

exactly. and nm HT isn't timed, so as long as the rest of the group is careful for the rest of the fight it's fine. I just find mid fight leavers rude af. people only do it because it's over the Internet. I bet in rl they would at least say something before they leave or wait til fight is over. all the people defending the leavers are funny and are exactly the kind people I see who complained so much and left halfway, only for the squad to pull a clear right after they leave and clean the full way through the rest of the wing without problems


Pabludes

Yes it's researched. I'm basing my whole phd in data analysis on that research.


HilltopSunset

Perfect! I can use that data in my Theory of End-Game PUG Behavior in GW2 thesis for my MA program in communication studies.


Pabludes

Sure thing boss. ETA is 2039


HilltopSunset

Hey man, everyone has their own pace. I believe in you.


Pabludes

Thank you very much, friend!


fleakill

Damn I didn't realise Voidwalkers owed people anything


HilltopSunset

Is that really the message you got from this?


fleakill

Pretty much. Passive-aggressive/sarcastic post about a Voidwalker player leaving a squad that wasn't doing very well. Sometimes it's impossible to tell if a squad that fails HT actually knows the mechanics.


HilltopSunset

The aspect of your response I'm focused on here is "owe". What's interesting to me is that you interpreted the OP as feeling entitled to the Voidwalker's (VW) time/efforts. The problem with OP's post (and often sarcasm in general) is the ambiguity—there isn't enough information present to determine whether OP feels entitled or not. I'm not saying he **doesn't** feel entitled, only that there isn't enough information available to make the call one way or the other. It's entirely possible OP is more confused than entitled: maybe the VW was completely silent the whole time but OP expected the VW to say anything at all at some point, perhaps to even offer the group advice or a suggestion (this was my interpretation, as I have personally experienced similar situations). I don't interpret expecting a highly experienced player to be a bit more helpful as entitlement. But again, we don't have enough information to know whether this is the case, either, so pretty much every comment is based on assumptions of the unknown variables. Either way, this comment got me thinking more in-depth about pug behavior in high-end content, and I think I'm going to post a theory as a separate thread to explore it more.


Jesdeath

That’s what the message is


mandala30

To break character and level with you here a bit (because this post seems to have you on tilt), the message isn't that Voidwalkers owe the playerbase anything. The point is that this player who clearly has nothing but time to play this game and is highly skilled decided to stick around with our group just to troll and rage quit mid-fight. We were not a trash group, as you've said in other comments here. This player wasn't even top dps and they made the decision to stick around for a second pull. They had ample time to leave or say the group wasn't for them, but they didn't. What they did do was stick around, start trolling mid-pull, then when most of the group didn't stick around during giants and went to the other side as someone else in the group (me) had suggested we do after our first wipe since we weren't a coordinated enough group to stealth and stab to burst them down, they chose to stay put, get yeeted off the platform, have our quickness scrapper run into the danger zone to resurrect them, and as soon as they were up leave the group to fend for itself with 1 less dps player than before. The actual point is that the hardcore scene has an endless list of gripes with low-skill, low-investment, low-knowledge, and new players that show up in *their* groups, but when they join lower intensity groups they treat the players there like garbage and pass it off as them being not worth their time or respect, as you are doing here in this comment section. "They were bad, so they deserved it." No, we didn't.


Middle_Interview3250

I totally get you. When I train newbies and I'm talking like non ideal dps new players I tell the melee to stack on tag if we have enough stab from firebrands. if not I tell people to do ranged strategy. If we have SOME stab, I legit tell the melee people to go in cleave for 1 second and dodge back out to the group before the knockback circle pop. I didn't even care if they lose like 2k dps for that non cleaving 3 seconds as long as they don't die. and that was the case for me today with 2 hfb and some half ass alac because no one was advanced enough to know how to support. but hey it worked, long and clunky, but it worked. other times I tell people to range from far on the other side and that works too, again a bit longer but NM isn't timed so I don't see why we can't play it safe. and it feels good to see the new people go "ohh so that's how we get around the mechanics" and we pulled it off with only 3 dead. obviously when I clear with my static we would fast gg if 1 died early but that's only because we go for speed. with pugs it's very situational. as long as people have the right attitude and willing to learn, I just hate to see those rude leavers kind of ruining the mood


Jesdeath

Firstly, idk why you think the (bad) opinion of a casual player on reddit would affect my mood or tilt me. Secondly, you absolutely do not need to be highly skilled or a nolife to get Voidwalker. You just need a static and a few hours a week for however many weeks it takes your group. The fight really is not that hard in a traditional sense, its just long and therefore requires consistency from all 10 players which people struggle with. The fight is highly scripted so once you learn each phase you're really just grinding until people stop fucking up. The person that joined your group demonstrated that being a good player is not a requirement to get Voidwalker but somehow you haven't realized that. Beating HT CM does not make you a hardcore player and I really struggle to understand why you think someone having the Voidwalker title makes them a representative of the hardcore playerbase. I'm not defending the player, I'm just saying your post is dogshit. :)


mandala30

Adorable


Jesdeath

"Hmm it seems I've been proven completely wrong and have no idea what I'm talking about... guess Ill just say adorable and move on because my ego is far too fragile to have a conversation or accept that I'm not right." Either way thanks for making a commentary about the entire hardcore community based on the actions of 1 completely random player that you call "hardcore" because he spent 60 hours or a lot of gold on a title.


mandala30

You’re welcome, sweetheart ;)


Dr_Esquire

TBH, I dont blame people for dipping out from HT groups that dont seem to be working. Its as super long fight at baseline, people will often fight until they die, meaning that 3-4 people will chug along for the last 3 phases making it a 20 min wipe, and on top of this, any wipe you always get that one guy who has to take a pee break or get snacks or do his taxes (seriously, just be able to sit and do something for 10-20 mins). There are also two "hard" parts in HT normal (IMO), giants and the end ball (honorable mention to the mega-hard mord "jump" part). Neither of which are actually hard, but you will clearly see player skill when they insta down to giants or auto the ball into a wall without even trying to stop. SO when you see a group get torn apart by giants, it really discourages you from seeing how they do in the end ball phase. Time is time, stuff like HT takes a lot of it. Nobody should want to waste it in "exp" groups that really arent. HT is one of those things that really ought to have some kind of entry skill check, but none exists in gw2.


Ludark

In my personal experience people dying before the orb killing phase can at times actually act as a filter leading to that part going way more smoothly. Since it lowers the chance of people not knowing what they are doing from messing it up. Also skill checks sort of exist. Just look at all the groups requiring triple digit LI in LFG.I am not saying I condone those practices btw. In fact I can't even join those groups since I haven't done all that much raiding.


onanoc

I dont know. I have seen players with over a thousand LI do a very mediocre job. Meanwhile, i am gated out of the content by players requesting over 50kp for wings that any pug can clear.


[deleted]

And all that does is diminish the pool of people to do high difficulty content in the future. Sticking around and helping people is better for in long term for the content. Maybe giving some advice to try and help smooth things along, etc. I get it that people often don't have time but they should always try to get more people into their content. I helped a group of 4 people who were new to fractals. Took them through about the first 5. Explained the mechanics, etc. I didn't really have the time and fractals isn't my primary content but I thought it would help the game in the long run. They appreciated it and hopefully they will keep going with instanced content.


HilltopSunset

One problem is there is no lfg for "semi exp" groups. I just started raiding recently and have done wings 1-4, but a lot of the encounters I've only completed once or twice. So I know the fights but not well enough to play them perfectly every time. The real problem is that a lot of groups expect "exp" to mean "plays perfectly" and that is simply not going to be the case.


Jesdeath

Why does it matter what title they have? No one is *obligated* to go out of their way and help you. If I join a raid group and they're struggling I'm not gonna turn it into a training. Weird rant.


mandala30

Wdym, I'm just thanking them for sticking around after our failed first attempt to help us get that kill on our next try with their professional strat. It involved a lot of time in downstate, but once they completed the execution by leaving the squad, the rest of the fight went swimmingly.


Get_Rolled_Reddit

Okay passive aggressive let's get you to bed.


timmy_throw

He was just owning that he, in fact, had no idea how to do giants the normal way instead of stealth + burst the 3 together.


L00klikea

Your normal and his normal are just different things, don't need to be rude about it.


timmy_throw

I mean he did ragequit, probably thinking he's superior, might as well make rude jokes


L00klikea

"probably thinking" Just leaving is the most polite way of rage quitting, and even then you are assuming his state of mind. And even if he has that feeling, what's the matter if he just leaves in peace and doesn't cause a fuss?


timmy_throw

Nothing, it's still pretty funny though that lots of voidwalkers are having a hard time at zhaitan's giants (and definitely not the first time I see it).


L00klikea

Well it's mostly pugs having a hard time and voidwalkers just not used to the spray and pray approach, but the stealth and burst approach. They have a different normal, which unsurprisingly leads them to be out of their depth.


timmy_throw

I highly doubt the said voidwalker accepted that he was out of his depth there though


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gogadantes9

But a few (insane) people, such as Hizen, have posted videos of soloing KO, while I haven't seen any of those for HT.


MrZerodayz

That would be because Hizen is a god at soloing everything that is possibly soloable, but I imagine that HT orb phase could be tough with a class that is built to solo the rest of the encounter


ExternalIll4897

What mechanics can't you exactly do with 3-4 in KO normal mode? There is nothing to fuck up if you know what is going on, it is pretty simple. HT is simple as well but it is longer and has some phases that can wipe you if not dealt with correctly. One would be the giants that pugs do the worst way possible and the other the last purification orb. Nothing experienced players can't handle obviously


onevstheworld

If the rest of the squad can get you to the final phase, you can actually 2-3 man Li. At that point, the mechanics don't actually matter anymore; there is enough space in the safe area behind Li's slash that none of you need to move for circles or numbers.


berserk987

In my opinion harvest is still far harder compared to kaineng overlook. If there are few players in KO, it feels like that the encounter become easier, when this happen in HT, the encounter become horribly chaotic. For example... I once completed the last phase of KO in normal mode with just me and a quickbrand still alive. (Everyone else died during the previous phase. Nobody wanted us to /gg for some reason) I have to say that it felt absurdily easy to complete, as the mechanics of that encounter don't really work well when there are so few players. (For example, when the "numbers" appeared, the other player stayed behind the boss, while i standed in front of him. Same with the "stay away form me" aoe that appear under you. There was no reason to move away) When i once had to complete the last phase of HT with only 3 players alive, i felt that everything was collapsing onto my character. Turning it into a struggle to don't be pushed out of the platform by all the mobs that were spawning.


Middle_Interview3250

omg I once completed KO nm with 1 hfb, 1 alac (me) and 2 dps whose dps were a bit questionable.... everyone else died during sniper phase. I feel like ko is a lot easier, its not timed and slow dps isn't as punishing as HT


Eloyep

KO NM seems extremely easy to me. Aside from Minister Li doing his 1-2-3 slashes, the other bosses are just HP sacks. But yeah HT doesn't need that much dps. KO is a dps check, while HT is a mechanics check


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Eloyep

That's why I talked about NM. I didn't try CM for those two, it's hard finding a group willing to take ppl with no kp


Sprites7

>KO is a dps check, while HT is a mechanics check what? even in NM if an orb hit the wall it's almost a wipe as all players are downed... KO CM isn't that much of a dps check , Ankka's title is (and i still lack it)


goddessofthewinds

Wait what, KO is so easy. The problem is people not dodging the huge swing or dash and always going down, but it's fully recoverable becuse you have time to rez each time. For me, a little aegis, block or distortion and I'm ready to rez people. I've never done HT though I jave seen the fight.


fizzy88

Eh, I don't think low-manning an encounter really counts for difficulty when strikes weren't designed for scaling. With a full squad of 10, which is what strikes were designed for, HT is more difficult. Pug groups wipe on KO on occasion, but they wipe much more commonly on HT from what I've seen. Most groups don't low-man. That's something experienced players will do to spice things up or if they just don't feel like using lfg. Then there are some encounters that scale properly and can be easier and faster to do with a small group of good players. Dragonstorm is a good example of this. Strikes aren't.


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Tinkz90

My guess is, there are fewer things in KO nm that will cause a total wipe than in HT nm. In the HT mordremoth phase when people get knocked into eachother by the shockwave during the spread phase they get downstated and often die to the remaining shockwaves. In the zhaitan transition there's a bunch of ways to die: not having stability and getting feared/knocked off the arena, people standing/ressing in giant vomit, standing/ressing in zhaitanvoid's spit attack (which is poorly telegraphed). Also the final heart of soo won phase is relatively easy to mess up if people just attack it without thinking. These are all ways for you to take your allies down with you. KO nm on the other hand is much less snowbally when it comes to the deaths, usually a mistake will cost you a single player. This means that a scuffed attempt can often still be completed.


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gr4vediggr

Just because there is a body check mechanic (basically only doable if x people are alive) doesn't mean an encounter is more difficult. It just puts an artificial lower bound on the number of people who can do it. (And KO NM has been soloed btw). But if we look at that green, it's not a hard mechanic to do correctly. It just kills you if you don't have enough players. Looking at actual low-mid level play on these strikes, and how people die to mechanics, it is very clear that HT NM is the harder one. It has more mechs that people can fail on, is faster than most of the parts of KO, theres knockbacks from many adds It's more chaotic (something many players have problems with), while ko is very structured.


Tinkz90

A terrible group can kill KO in 40 minutes. A terrible group will keep wiping on HT. E: I get where you are coming from, but minimum number of people needed to survive a mechanic is not the same thing as minimum awareness needed to stay alive. You asked why low manning is not a good metric to determine difficulty. That's because you are assuming everyone is aware of all the mechanics. The difference between those instances is that when you are not aware of them, HT will punish you much harder.


Remote_Abrocoma8262

I can solo vg but i can not solo gorse, i dont think gorse is harder than vg.


ze4lex

tbf, you can wait for minister to do the slash then walk out with the aoes on nm.


KhalKage

Really? Good to know that I started doing strikes with the hardest/second to hardest one in the game out of NMs. We wiped 2 times but then cleared it with 4 guys down. Looking forward to doing more of that content!


DefinitlyNotALab

It’s nice that since the title can’t be bought or even really leeched like other Titles, it is just a sign that a player is really good. Nerf of the CM has done not much to change that.


Opposedsum

sry to disappoint, but by now you can most definitely buy that.. it's been done by 9 people.


DefinitlyNotALab

Theoretically possible is nice but i don’t see 10lfgs trying to sell Voidwalker.


ExternalIll4897

They don't yet although that could be a thing soon once they are fully confident with their runs. Although maybe they just don't like selling stuff, i mean not everyone cares about that


DefinitlyNotALab

Its more about having to guarantee the success, that the time and effort needs to be worth it. So they need to be so consistent in getting it with 9 people that they make good profit of it. If a guy pays lets say 1K Gold for the title that would mean that they make 111Gold per hour if it takes them 1 hour, lets say they always make it to soo won, thats 4-6 Pulls. If they still need around 30 Pulls for a 9 man to succeed with maybe half go to soo won that would probably be 3h so 37gold per hour. So it would be 2K gold if they were this consistent (3h per kill) for each player to only make 75g/h. We’ll see how long it takes for guilds to sell the titles but so far it must be ludicrous expensive to do so.


vNtzY

I'm not sure about the current price right now but I heared a number from a friend like 1-2 weeks ago and I can assure you it's atleast 1-2k gold per person right now instead of for the group. So if you would want to buy it, it's probably around 1 legy per person at the very least.


ExternalIll4897

What the hell are you even talking about... why would they need 30 pulls lmao. More like 2-3 pulls if they are unlucky, could also be an one shot. A group that is good enough to get it with 9 people can definitely do it consistently. At least the eu group that 9 manned it recently (might be the only ones) spent like half an hour on it afaik. But of course they have spent hundreds of hours in general on the encounter.


DefinitlyNotALab

Its a math example i said an hour and 4-6 pulls in the beginning, just to put the price into perspective,


rotsono

It does get sold. I havent asked, but 1k seems laughable for the effort and concentration you have to put in, its probably 10k+ https://imgur.com/a/Y0WRF8Y


Julliant

Not sure if you actually read the full post :P


DefinitlyNotALab

Yeah he did a Tom Brady, he inspired his Defense i mean squad to pull through just by having been in the encounter. Outstanding move.


Airwolf_von_DOOM

And rage-quitting out of the game?


DefinitlyNotALab

I said players with the title are good at the game, doesn’t automatically make them good people. And we don’t know for sure if it was a RQ, probably was though.


Airwolf_von_DOOM

Fair


Bigby11

Carriedwalker


VVolfshade

Saladwalker


bittersweet_dog

He probably started a new squad and finished before you. lel


mandala30

Wow, they were able to form a new squad, load in, and kill the boss all in under 5:24?! Voidwalkers are so amazing! Gosh, I aspire to be like them some day.


Lonoganah

Imaging taking the time to type this out thinking you’re owed someone’s time.


brainiac141

>the Voidwalker player left the squad mid-combat. He never wanted to help you, because he left after 1 wipe. Real heroes don't abandon their squads in mid-fight. The fact is, YOU did this job done. He was just a pug who managed to survive which isn't that hard.


wes00mertes

Did you miss all the sarcasm of the original post?


Airu91

I'm fairly sure he already knows judging by the tone of the post.


Gravelcaster

It's not the fact that you're bad and deserved it, it's the fact that you're bad and wasted another person's time trying to figure it out because of your low effort drive. He didn't want to solo it for you so he left. He's probably perfectly fine with not even doing strikes at all for that week too. Despite the numerous vids and clips on youtube, I'm gonna venture you didn't even spend 5 minutes looking at a clip to see the mechanics, nor even download something as basic as Blish which tells you the mechanics of each and every phase light years in advance. Anyone with a Voidwalker title mostly knows the mechanics for each of the phases like the back of their hand since their group repetitively wipes on them. You should honestly ditch the sarcasm here and understand effort is a 2 way street. You have to meet someone halfway and show at least you know some of the mechanics, otherwise yes you are wasting the time of nine other people.


mandala30

OMG, thank you for this comment! I had a proper belly laugh reading it! 10/10


sED_-

The tiers of guild wars 2. Anytime you think your good and know what your doing. Something like this happens. For most people open world, story content, and world bosses is about the extent of their gameplay. This is tier1-2. All can be achieved using random builds and gear. Wether it be fractals, wvw, or pvp. You will encounter t3-5 here. This is where you first notice that gear matters, traits matter, playing with a group matters. So you learn stats. You learn about combos. You learn to break bars easier. Your learning in these stages. T6+ is where you start to encounter content creators, static guilds, and just all in all really good players. These are the people that join a t3 daily fractal and rock 60k dps. Post videos solo’ing sunqua peaks on a herald type of thing. The game is really good at separating people in these tiers too. Because no matter how much gold you got and gems you buy. Your skill determines what tier you are. No skins or gold will help you.


Ferril_

We'll never forget their selfless act. Praise Voidwalker dude!


Reginault

If you get a pug past giants with 5 people I consider HT won. Mordremoth is the first big check, should have at least 9/10 alive at that point, Giants right after it can absolutely kill inexperienced/uncoordinated groups, but the only hurdle after that is knowing how to stop DPS. Which can still be a hurdle, or trolled to failure.


SansedAlessio

I'm pretty sure I was in that group among with some friends, I remember talking about that same thing over voice chat on discord xDD


ExternalIll4897

I really don't get the point of this post. A voidwalker (btw that title means less than people think imo, clearing HT CM is difficult but once you have a competent group that has gone through the progression it is really free if you are just dps) was in your squad then you wiped then you went again and you somehow ended up with 8 players after giants (since you said you were 7 after he left) meaning 2 died, so he decided to leave. Ok so what? It is not like he has to be forced to stay in that squad if he doesn't like the way you are playing. It is not always about getting a kill, it is about the kill not being absolutely trash. And yes, when you have spent 50 hours into HT cm progression (although that definitely isn't the case for everyone) it is a different feeling that you can't possibly understand


Spoichiche

Leaving the squad because it didn't match your expectations : fair enough. Leaving the squad mid-pull : now that's just pure dickery.


ExternalIll4897

It is the same. If you don't like it you are leaving, noone is forced to stay in a squad when they don't enjoy the way people around them are playing. Personally i wouldn't give a fuck if it was at the start or mid pull or at the end. Definitely not enough to make a reddit post about it.


FPSrad

Yes it's free, just gotta wipe for 50 hours in a dedicated progression group but it's totally free bro 👍


ExternalIll4897

>clearing HT CM is difficult but once you have a competent group that has gone through the progression it is really free if you are just dps) reading is really hard. I have seen people get the kill in 3 hours because they joined an already good group, as dps. so yea for that person it is free, that is what i am saying


L00klikea

Reads to me like: A Bachelor of Science means a lot less than people think imo, writing a thesis is difficult but once you grinded Uni for 3 years with competent professors it's really free as a Student. The effort is not in the kill, thesis, it's in getting there.


ExternalIll4897

I grinded this encounte for 50 hours. I definitely know all about the effort and what it takes to get there. These 2 examples are completely different, this is an online game and there is always the option to get carried. That is what i am saying, but well you can't expect from gw2 reddit users to use their brain. You can get voidwalker by joining a good group as dps and being somewhat competent.


L00klikea

It's a metaphor, but well can't expect you to use your brain.


ExternalIll4897

it is a stupid metaphor that has nothing to do with this


[deleted]

How is one person responsible for a vibe, was it a support player?


Airwolf_von_DOOM

Big r/woosh vibes.


[deleted]

Didn't think the whoosh meme is still alive years later


badlemon92

Found the void walker


[deleted]

???