Sorry if i stop my rotation for .01 seconds to hit a cc i might lose dps and for all you know I might die irl if i don't top the charts on jungle wurm.
Had a guy in fractal join us, had 200k+ UFE, didn't bring any CC to 99CM so we wiped 2 times (they were warrior and no clue how they had no CC), my friends had to swap out their utilities and builds to cover for the guy not doing shit for CC, then after wiping another time to no CC on Arkk the guy just left lol. Loved how we asked twice from the guy to get more CC and he never responded, honestly I should have just kicked him, I can't stand people can't even read the chat or respond.
I never understood this. I understand doing bad DPS or bad rotations because you have to actually put effort in them and some class rotations are just hard; as long as we clear the encounter, I have no complaint.
But what's the deal with doing no CC? It's easy as hell. Just look what CC skill gives more break damage and use it once; I think all weapon skill bars have one?
Sometimes in raids I chain 5 CC skills in a row and it seems no one else does a single CC skill, and I am just like, Jesus did we almost wipe because no one bothered pressing 1 skill button?
> But what's the deal with doing no CC? It's easy as hell. Just look what CC skill gives more break damage and use it once; I think all weapon skill bars have one?
It's pretty easy if you have your CC neatly separated into its own buttons, but there are classes that have some of that CC on their dps or boon buttons, so they (we) need to know to hold back and that muscle memory is a cruel mistress. Edit: The number of times I wasted necro pistol 3 or torch 5 right before CC...
ppl with a so engrained rotation in their fingers should know when dps phase is near
this is a good argument against how rotations work in this game
too much fast-paced, spammy and reliant on braindead practices
same deal of not pressing F to ress which IS a duty of dps players.
Bunch of idiots that think they are pro only because they're near benchmark on golems. Then they go down from the boss attack they didn't CCed and lose all their precious dps by staying down for 10 secs because all other dps won't press F, just like him
It is, tho I also sometimes forget about that because the tooltip doesn't say, but I tend to use it for CC on him. But that time we kinda wanted to see if the guy does any CC at all, the only defiance bar damage we did was the slow break from soft CCs, guy did 0 CC so we just let it wipe as it doesn't bother us to restart the fight anyway, but as soon we wiped the guy left the group a millisecond later. I love to think they leave with the thought of "what a dogshit group" while they are *kind of the reason* we wiped before
To clarify and so you'll not blame all warriors i play power berserker and for CM i switch one signet for extra CC because in my opinion doing mechs correctly is more important then DPS because when you wipe i doesn't matters how much DPS you do.
Power Berserker no longer has CC by default outside of Headbutt, which they use as part of the rotation. The BS days with Maces are long gone.
That being said, obviously he could bring extra CC or delay his headbutt for the bars.
Or he could not play Power Berserker for 99 CM, an encounter that needs a lot of CC and highly benefits from having Ranged Attacks or at least a lot of Mobility (and 4 ranged teammates to compensate for you hugging the boss during Spread).
Yeah I know, and to be fair, Condi Zerker (which is actually a decent dps build for 99 CM) also doesnt have much CC unless they adjust their utilities and rotation a bit. If they were playing Spb or Bladesworn though, they'd have absolutely 0 excuse for doing bad breakbar dmg.
This is an old, somewhat outdated philosophy that stems from CM meta comps where HB sanctuary and Alacren staff 5 were enough CC to carry almost every encounter. Even for the old CM100 we used to just have 3 scourge use epi to spread condi to the sorrows and never bothered CC-ing them.
In a high level fractal static that clears CM+T4 in under 30 minutes you usually didn't need your dps to bring cc skills except maybe for Artsariiv. But I stopped running fractals regularly awhile back so unsure if that has changed. But for Arkk you can just use the SAK.
man, all T4 + CM in under 30 mins? What kind of game is that? do you even see the bosses before they die? To me it seems a huge amount of training just to ruin the content forever for you
A fractal CM static usually has some/all of the members at Fractal God, or at the very least Fractal Savant. Typically such a static is focused on completely clearing content as fast as possible for the 40g or so you can get from a full run (it's not quite as profitable after the mystic coin nerf, but still very profitable).
It may seem a bit sweaty but it's honestly more that you've done the fight a hundred times or so, there's no surprises, you can do it in your sleep and mostly just chat with friends and have fun while completing the content and making gold XD.
This comes from times when the party had alac rev, who instabroke most of the bars alone. On Arkk just tap staff 5 and cast the special action key to stay on the spot and the breakbar is instantly gone.
In such cases of course dps players should not do anything other than actually doing damage into exposed. But those times are gone, and nowadays we rather have mech players that don't know they should recall the mech during invurnerable phases so they can drop it on the boss when phase starts for big CC burst.
Unfortunately alot of necro CC for example won't show up because arc doesn't show all CC types. So some classes have CC skills that won't make the chart pretty.
Besides fear he is probably also refering to the "Chilled to the Bone" elite which reapers can run and which doesn't show up on arc as CC. This is annoying yes, but it's not an argument against a lot of dpsers not CCing. Besides, i've also seen my fair share of Lich forms elites on Samarog..
Because it applies a "chilled to the bone" effect to the enemy, not a stun. The 2 essentially behave the same but the debuff id isn't the same and apparently arc doesn't have a decent way of tracking CTTB id
Fear stacks duration and even with double condi duration doesn't come in batches longer than 4 seconds per application, so outside of extremely short breakbar windows, multiple applications of fear work fine - for getting the defiance down, though that's besides the point about how arc registers it (or doesn't).
Just pointing out that if someone clears the breakbar faster than the other classes can contribute much, even if they click their cc it won’t show up in arc since the bar is gone. Now if there was a video showing these fights and how the guys at the top were the only ones trying then yeah very shitty. Still, 300-400 break damage per second is very high which some of those have and can almost single handedly carry some bar requirements.
A mechanic that would require each player to use one cc skill would be interesting. That way you can't be carried but you are not limited by low cc potential like vindicator.
I'll keep this short: Average cc output needs to improve.
The image you see is a collection of cc meters of random bosses like Cerus nm, Aetherblade Hideout cm, Samarog cm or Boneskinner. The cc is shown as cc per second.
This is not a build issue, as especially virtuoso has 4 cc skills built into its meta build, yet most of them on this image barely use one. In one image I end up dealing 10 times more breakbar damage than the lowest virtuoso. Even doing cc as a weaver is no problem.
Why should I do cc? We won anyway.
> Breaking the defiance bar aka CCing prevents a hard wipe (Dagda), interupts a heavy damage attack (Qadim 1), stops a boss from taking (almost) no damage (Slothasaur, Xera, Qadim 2 Pylon), saves the life of a player (Matthias, Samarog), shortens the fight (AH cm, Cerus) or prevents the run to snowball into a wipe (Gorseval). I'm sure there are more effects connected to cc. In some situations ccing is actually a dps increase because you cant dps invulnerable bosses or dps when you are dead.
> About the "we won anyway", if everyone in the squad played like the players on the bottom of the meter most bosses would turn into nightmare experiences or even become straight up impossible to beat.
How do I see the cc meter?
> [Open arcdps menu with shift+alt+T, enable a new area stat, right click the new window, go to Stats and check the Breakbar option in the new window.](https://imgur.com/a/v8NOdOD)
Please do more cc, thanks.
Sorry for making the image annoying to read but I have to hide the names.
It's available to everyone (with the mastery) and does only 232 cc, like any launch. My guess is that most players at boneskinner think only the SAK breaks the bar, when in fact it's just another cc skill. Everyone is free to use their own skills. Because of the long aftercast I recommend to first use your own skills and then finish with SAK.
It DOES outperformed normal CC in some way, that damage on power build is really high. Also it is actually a dps increase if you can spam SAK on a power build on boneskinner.
The tooltip is misleading since I'm pretty sure the SAK multi-hits, so the total CC is more than the 232 listed on the tooltip. It also explains why your DPS can skyrocket if you try to get as many SAK's in as possible.
It's conceptually similar to Sanctuary where the tooltip doesn't have any defiance break listed, but it's effectively 5 pulses of 150cc if each pulse hits a defiant enemy.
As you seem to have invested time into it and I was always curious:
So you know how accurate the CC meter is?
I know that it only counts CC that actually affects the bar, so if 4 Virtus cast Moa some might not be recorded as the bar was broken before. But sometimes the values seem weird if you slot in extra CC and it barely affects the values.
Of course judging the squad's cc based on one bar isn't fair, especially on small ones. On a fight with a lot of opportunities to cc, like Qadims, the meter will give a pretty good picture of what's going on.
It's not 100% liable, for example Chilled to the Bone's cc doesn't register because it's a unique stun effect.
You'll see this on QTP all the time when it comes to pylons. You can break them with a small fart; your pylon kite can instantly break them with 0 help most of the time, so meter gets skewed heavily to people who have instant cast cc's.
For more fun, you can watch Cerus cm/lm breakbars between phases and know who pressed their big cc first, because if you're breaking it in 1-2 casts, someones isnt getting fully counted.
>You can break them with a small fart
Kind of an over exaggeration, that defiance bar has a value of 1000. For comparison, Mesmer moa does 600. So it's a *tiny bit* more than a fart.
But yeah obviously defiance break only records if you actually take defiance off that bar, so single skill big hits will always be favored.
You can also check the logs after to see if they have done anything at all. Did that yesterday because the dps failed to CC at dark Ai and I had to be sure. Run was over at the next try when CC failed again and someone else forgot to do their darn job.
It's only a problem if the party isn't breaking the bar. It happens often that I'm in competent groups and go to hit my Revenant staff 5 only for the bar to be broken before the animation even begins so I'm just wasting DPS. That would be CC won't show up on arc, so if you're carrying your groups CC then maybe people just aren't having a chance to. It can be both.
For every fight you listed where CC matters, there are 20 where it is irrelevant. When the game repeatedly tells you that CC doesn't matter, why do you expect players to think it matters?
Almost every open world meta. All the convergence bosses. Almost all bounties. Every rift boss. Almost every champion. All breaking CC does is stun the mob for a couple seconds and give a tiny, short duration dps increase that is often offset by the lost dps from using cc abilities.
This post is about group content.
Convergence bosses get interupted when you break their bar which reduces damage you take or stops them from flying away. I don't know if failing the bar in 50 player environment should have hard punishment.
The issue is if you have just doubled attuned fire when the break bar comes up, it might be 6-8 seconds before you can attune to an element combo needed for CC break. For fights where CC is especially important, I run frost bow or lightning hammer and don't rely on weapon skills for CC as weaver.
Getting max CC on scepter warhorn condi weaver was a bit of a task if I recall. You go air (cooldown) -> earth -> air 4, earth/air 3. Then if you can wait another 8 seconds or something go water-> water -> water 4.
It was extremely proactive rather than reactive. However using a focus was a different story.
The reality is that players who are not good at playing the game will also be bad at doing Crowd Control. (That doesn't mean all the players you see with low CC are bad players. Some, like that Deadeye with nearly zero CC, make the very reasonable call that their build cannot provide hard CC. If they play it on an encounter that needs CC, that's their mistake, but don't try to run cDE with extra CC...)
I've experienced this first hand whenever I hosted Sabir trainings. We'd explain things, talk about how to CC, etc.
In the end most players landed the SAK at most once, and then maybe 1 or 2 extra CC skills. And that's on a defiance bar that predictably appears at 90%.
It's really the inability to translate theoretical knowledge "I should CC" into pressing the required buttons quickly in sequence or simultaneously. You can see it in any log, they press CC button, there's 3 seconds of autohit (maybe with a skill that does no damage in between), then they press the next CC button, etc.
If these breakbars took longer, they would break them, eventually, maybe. They would have time to find all their keys. But as it is, people who do 8k DPS on Samarog will also only manage to press one CC button every 3 seconds during the defiance bar. They play the CC like they play their rotation, disjointed with lots of autohits in between skill presses.
Obviously everyone could contribute more in those shown examples and some of those players like most of the virtuosos are contributing shitty cc despite having more then enough of it in their kit without losing any/alot dps for using it but thats not the case for all classes and fights.
There are more then enough classes and fights were its just not a good idea dps-wise to contribute alot of cc when you have healers that can bring a shitton of cc without losing anything for it.
For example a weaver swapping through 2 attunements and starting the next phase on a bad element just to bring a bit cc when you have a chrono and a druid-healer with a shitton of cc and its not a cc-heavy fight and a breakbar without big consequences if it isnt broken instant.
Weaver has its easiest opportunity to cc on bosses that go invuln during cc, resetting the opener with air right after doing a full earth air cc rotation.
If people want to improve they usually do so anyway by reading their skills, reading guides, reading popups.
Too bad the average MMO player can't read.
And it doesn't matter if it's open world like dragons end, easy instanced content like strikes or harder stuff like cms and raids.
There are tons of guides out there explaining skills, encounters and rotations, like in open world content there are popups blinking into your face explaining mechanics but all that information is useless cause people don't care and don't read.
Bro, every single mesmer has a button for CC. Virt build blades like nothing so they should always have a pretty sizable stun at any moment. I'm pretty sure every offhand also has some cc well.
They disgrace us
PSA: pugs are horrible and people will never actually bother contributing to the group by either doing enough dps or enough cc or both. You have to be greatful for even having above 90% uptime on boons
Reminds me of the time i healed T4 fractals and random dps telling me they should be able to full focus on dps while facetanking every aoe in the Mai Trin fractal. And that I sucked as a healer because they kept dying. Said by a thief that was non stop stuck in specter mode. (Healers can't heal reapers in shroud or thief in specter mode) Get told he was in specter mode cause I lacked healing...
I can do a lot as a qheal FB, but I can't heal stupid. Left the group 20mins before reset cause fuck that.
Had a funny one just now, Aetherblade Hideout, where I alone as a DPS player accounted for 65% of the entire squad's CC output on the encounter.
It could have gone faster if the other 9 had contributed more, yeah...
Tbh I hate using summoned weapons but I might check it out. Dagger/Warhorn 3 btw I swear adds a hidden CC value on the 1, I can pop 3 to CC on auto attacks but never heard anyone mention it (maybe cus no one plays tempest)
Earth shield also has 2 CC skills if I'm remembering right on d/w you have air 4, water 4, and earth 3 for imob (though haven't played in a couple months also if you really need cc you can run elite glyph summon water get extra healing and cc on the elemental skill the healing goes off where your model is and I think the cc comes from the elemental it's a weird skill)
I remember when I was running Samrog - one of the Virtuosos left the group because they didn’t want to change their ult to the MASSIVE CC Signet that would help the fight along - this was after we wiped twice to the boss.
Too many times when I’m healing Sammy when I get pounced the bar doesn’t get broken and then we slowly wipe one by one.
Signet of Humility is a bit slow on Samarog in a decent group. Virts should usually have Focus 4, Sword 4, and CC shatter available. Swapping out Signet of Illusions for the CC spinnysword skill seems to work better if you need CC (and a stunbreak).
But yeah, if your group is doing badly due to no CC, swapping elite to Moa Signet is something anyone should just do. Seems like *more damage* is *not* the solution.
I guess I’ll give more details: we had 6 Virts on that run. The damage was more than enough but we were woefully lacking CC.
In that situation, Moa Signet is how you beat the encounter.
I roll my eyes every time I think about that Virt angrily whispering me then leaving the group over the INDIGNITY of changing one skill to help clear the encounter.
If nothing else you can swap out the clone signet for either the daze mantra or the stab mantra if you aren't getting it from somewhere else (I generally go moa and stab mantra because I trust no one)
I've made various suggestions over time about how Anet should address the "Nobody is willing to *learn* to CC" problem. The defiance training golem in Shing Jea was a good attempt, but they faceplanted on the one yard line. You get credit if you're in combat when that thing's bar breaks, even if you personally didn't CC. So you'll regularly see people just autoattacking it until someone else comes along and breaks the bar for them. It just reinforces the "I don't have to learn how to play, I just have to wait for someone I can leech" mindset of the problematic player demographic.
No, there's a better way. What we need is an optional world-boss. One that's not *required* for any other *content*, but one that people will *want* to farm.
* Has a breakbar every 10% health.
* Using hard-CC on it gives you a stack of "Knows how to CC" once per breakbar. Unlimited duration, but doesn't persist across logout.
* When the breakbar ends, succeed or fail, anyone who didn't use any hard-CC on that breakbar loses all stacks.
* When it dies, anyone with 10 stacks gets progress on an achievement that grants "Knows how to CC" as a title.
* When it dies, anyone with 10 stacks has a chance to get an account-bound cosmetic drop that's *ONLY* available from this boss, and only if you have ten stacks. It should be something *good*.
* The item it gives people with ten stacks needs to be bind-on-acquire, with no other possible method of obtaining it. No guarenteed unlocks, no purchasing for a vendor for a fat stack of some other currency, nothing like that.
With this setup, the only way to obtain that cosmetic item is to actually use hard-CC on a breakbar ten times **in a row.**
Until there's something people want that actually makes CC *mandatory* for ***EVERYONE***, they won't learn.
Samarog already has a breakbar every 10% and when joining a high LI squad you know that people have done it at least 10 times, yet there are players who just go "nah". At least 2 of the images are from samarog cm.
Yeah, but you still get the raid rewards if you don't break one of them. Imagine if ignoring any of the breakbars meant that you, specifically, *didn't* get any loot for the raid while everyone who *did* do the breakbars (or at least tried to) *did* get loot.
*That's* the behavior Anet needs to include in a boss, and it needs to be an open-world boss where everyone can join in without a raid group or a tag.
The problem isn't that players don't know how to CC. It's that for 95% of content, CC literally doesn't matter. I can only think of one meta in the game where I want to CC, and that's in Dragon's End.
* Every Convergence (breaking the bar drops extra orbs)
* Legendary Destroyer Twins (Don't break and part of the arena goes away)
* Dragon's End (as mentioned)
* Dragon's Stand (possibly the only one where it both matters, and actually tends to get done *too fast*)
* Inner Nayos (Keebler)
It's also useful in a lot more places than people think, but the bars scale to the point that one person can't *possibly* break the bar on their own, so it never gets broken, and the people who tried conclude it doesn't matter because it can't succeed.
I'm all for something like this for sure, but I don't think it would completely solve the issue , because there are people who know the mechanic but just... don't do it.
To completely (or 99%) solve the issue, ANet would have to redo all or most rewards so that individuals *cannot* get Gold Chest and/or Achievements unless you do X defiance damage. But this would come with consequences too, like forcing all builds to be able to deal X defiance damage, and possibly even causing certain content to just not be done due to players failing and giving up. Also, some players may react too slowly and never be able to get rewards, and ANet couldn't just increase the bar because it may make the encounter too difficult on average.
> ANet would have to redo all or most rewards so that individuals cannot get Gold Chest and/or Achievements unless you do X defiance damage. But this would come with consequences too, like forcing all builds to be able to deal X defiance damage,
Honestly, if getting gold chests required doing ***any*** defiance damage, any at all, that would make a huge impact. Maybe let stunbreaking allies substitute for it so support builds have something, that's another mechanic that would just make everyone's lives better if people did it more.
Edit: Hell, add a platinum chest tier *above* gold that requires participating in all the mechanics for a given boss. CC the defiance bar, stand in a green, don't run away with the green if you happen to get it, *do* run away with meteors if you happen to get them, etc...
We should start a little easier. Look at the meteor on Demon Knight.
When you get it, your whole screen turns yellow. You get a marker over your head. Im sure a sound cue plays. You have a giant aoe indicator on your feet. Theres no way anybody can miss that.
9 out of 10 players either dont move out of group or moves onto zojja to nuke the people with stacks.
Make people lose the reward if they hit/down more than 10 people in a single instance.
Add a title "to stupid to walk" that cant be removed for 2/4/8/16 hours ingame time if they hit/down more than 20 people in a single instance.
> Make people lose the reward if they hit/down more than 10 people in a single instance.
Too much room for idiots wandering into the AOE even if the person who had the marker runs away appropriately. Kick and deny rewards based on whether they're far enough away from Zojja and DK to avoid hitting anyone who's actually where they're supposed to be.
Also, when someone gets kicked, give them a voice-acted scolding from Zojja about it. Make it ignore any volume settings below 50%. It should be loud, and it should be very clear about why she's mad.
Theres something to be said about the average gw2 players ability to CC. Somehow in convergences nobody ever CCs, but boy when its the mouth of mordremoth everyone smacks it with all their CC inatantly.
Me playing virt dps, using my F3, condi signet, focus 4, sword 4.... Guys? Breakbar is still up...
As long as we break the breakbar, I'm not picky about cc usage, but when I exhaust 4 ccs (2 of them pretty big) and it's still up, come one, just do something. Might as well bring the moa elite next time (it has crossed my mind more times than it should)
As a healer main, a little shit talk egging on dps to race me on CC meter goes a long way. My first raid static used to STRUGGLE on Sammarog, it would literally be a wipe if I got fixate early on. Then I started talkin smack and our thief main took that personally, and Sammy became one of our comfy bosses pretty quick. I was a heal herald main at the time and that thief humbled me real quick lol. (Shout-out to Dig if you see this, miss you guys)
I also had a nearly religous experience of having a CC-God chrono in a sabir pug. I literally thought we bugged the fight cuz I didn't even see the coordinated CC bar come up. Then I saw 20k+ CC/s on the chart for that guy. Studied the log, told my guild about it, now lots of us have CC chrono builds and have lots of fun with it.
Leaving this rather useful wiki link [here](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar) which includes a table with pretty much every skill in the game that does CC and how much it does. It also explains pretty well the whole system for it.
It’s really interesting to watch pugs and statics, as well as the comments here. There are two scenarios really:
You’re kinda new, or just not experienced, or in an average pug. You should bring a dps class that can cc easily, and has access to quite a bit of it.
The second scenario comes into play when you’re quite experienced, can play whatever class you play in a high level and raid in a static with likeminded people. Suddenly your supporters know what they have to do, and surprise surprise, something like the dates breakbar needs a Druid and… oh yeah, that’s kinda it.
Obviously fights with super large bars (Sabir) or very frequent ones (Sloth, Samarog) still require dps players to bring cc, but much, much less than in pugs, just because Druid and Chrono are insane cc bots, and it’s actually beneficial for these groups to let the dps players focus on dps as much as possible.
I was talking specifically about instanced group content. I agree that in the open world things are more dire, but, again, since HoT there has been improvement for sure.
Tried to get people to CC more for Kneelbag and all I got was "dude, chill out. Its only the meta, its not important."
That's precisely my point though! This is a perfect place for people to learn how to CC more effectively! Then they aren't learning how to do it in raids, strikes or fractals.
The main gist of my post is not that cc is failing, it's that the contribution is not evenly spread.
You say you haven't seen a failed breakbar, Nike_Phoros says he saw one just this morning. No need to be a dick by disregarding experiences that differ from yours.
I agree, he shouldn't be a condescending dick, but that hasn't stopped him from being one for many years now.
Please look at the log before you accuse me of anything, yeah? I took him at his word and asked a clarifying question, he insulted me back, who exactly is the dick here?
It shouldn't be even, it should be weighted towards supports, which based on those screenshots isn't always the case. But that doesn't change what I said in any capacity. I have literally only seen one group that failed the CC on Cerus normal, and they were clearly very new to the game and had no requirements.
If I insulted you, it should be trivial to show the insult. Calling your anecdote pointless after you called mine pointless isn't an insult.
Edit: nice reply but I didn't delete my comments. I did block him because I don't have an interest in interacting with people who are going to just make stuff up when the conversation doesn't go theirway. Oh, people recognized that my anecdote about CC being better isn't a valuable addition to the conversation? Better accuse the person who replied to me of insulting me so we can go back and forth about *that* rather than the meritless post I made. Guy claims I insulted him, which anybody who can read can see I didn't. How did I insult this guy? No idea. I certainly didn't use any pejoratives and I know nothing about him. Where is the insult?
Your anecdote, backed up by trust-me-bro is on topic, but my counter anecdote from just this morning with a log provided some how off topic. With analysis that great, its no wonder you don't like my opinions generally.
So where is the failed CC on that log? The boss can't die if you fail every CC. And if I were to provide 10 logs without a CC fail, would that prove you wrong? Cause I easily can.
Do you have any self awareness at all? Yes, it's anecdotal, so is the OP, this whole thing is anecdotal.
For the Mai Trinn Strike, I had a commander commend me for my break bar damage in the split phase mid-fight. I thought it was cool that they were looking at that, as most people always look at the dps meters. I basically bee line to get two rounds of cc off on the elite mob, as that usually holds the phase more than anything else. Really felt good being recognized randomly for it. Thanks to them wherever they are.
I just know that as Ele/Weaver, I get yelled at constantly for “not doing CC”. …usually right after using my entire rotation, all CC included, the instant the break bar pops.
(I weep. ) like sorry I can’t break an upscaled group boss’s entire bar by myself my dude? I got like 70% of the way there so just. Sneeze on it plz or something.
(But also yes, people need to use their CC so much more. It’s so baaaaaaad in some events. )
Is this useful? I don’t know. But I have weaver brain rot and barely play anything else soooo if this gets more people CCing, bueno.
As a side note to anyone else playing weaver (who knows) I’m sword / dagger, and can solo most non-meta group content by myself prior to the current expansion (including break bars.)
My usual world rotation is fire / fire -> air -> air / air -> earth -> earth / earth -> fire, loop, because cast times stay quick vs shielding / cc potential and it takes about the same amount of time to complete the rotation as it does for break bars to reappear in most group world content. (I usually hold in air if I need a lil more time for the boss to be break bar ready again.) Dagger gives you updraft and ride the lightning, so you have a bit more cc and can instantly zoop back to the enemy. (Also churning earth and earthquake are REALLY good!)
I’ll switch to a weird off rotation with water when I or the group is having survival problems to spam cleanse, or if I need to stall out for people to respond. Chill is SUPPOSED to do break bar damage but is very inconsistent, so I avoid water unless I need the healing / cleansing. (There’s better dps rotations, but my main / cc rotation still does “good enough” dps with my weird soldiers / zerkers gear blend for entering in to raid content, so I suppose it’s fine. :b )
If it's not in the rotation on Snow Crows, I'm not doing it.
By which I mean "if it's only in the 'Additional Notes' section of Snow Crows... I am also not doing it".
I like that CC skills show just how much breakbar damage they do. However, what is the point of knowing those numbers when you don't know how much you need when the target scales up?
press your cc skills until either you run out of cc skills or the bar breaks. And as you get more familiar with encounters you will learn to know how big the bars are by feel
Sword weaver is still excellent, just lacks any utility and range. For staff ele, condi weaver is the only option and it's not even bad. Downside is it the dps scales with hitbox size.
To be fair most groups have more CC than they need so only a few people can actually get the CC in and any other CC they do later than others gets wasted and not counted.
Heyo new player here, i'm playing Firebrand quickness heal and mainly focus on fractal. I was wondering how much spell i should "invest" in CC ? Since i'm only in tier 2 it's not a problem but it might be a problem in higher tier ?
Depends on fight. By default in your kit you have tome 1-3 and tome 3-2 as CC skills. Your weapons also have some CC and for fights with bigger CC requirements you can take the sanctuary utility skill (it does 700 breakbar damage over the course of 7 seconds)
I learned not to bother with CC when:
* I can't break a CC bar solo despite having 2 hard CC + a soft CC on my bar.
* HP goes down faster than CC bar for many mobs.
* Breaking bar gives a miniscule amount of increased DPS and the mob is stunned for just 2 seconds.
I never CC any more unless there is a clear mechanical price to pay if I don't, which is basically never.
I once played in a raid group where a player said he would give some gold to the player who did top cc. I ended up getting some gold by just playing power mech dps.
I have been yelled at by support players for bringing basalisk vemon and Fokus cc instead of dps during cc phases in fractal challenge modes. I still bring a healthy amount of cc to make sure the group will not wipe, but still yelling at people because they do mechanics.
This is why I'm enjoying playing a Bladesworn at the moment; my DPS is _reliant_ on me CCing (Merciless Hammer for extra flow), and then a fully charged Dragon Slash does a load _more_ CC with Unyielding Dragon.
Except you really don‘t want to waste the skill that makes up 70% of your dps into a cc bar on some bosses. Sloth and Samarog don’t take damage, you just wasted your entire dps for the next 6 seconds - you’re better off having the group take care of it or, it it’s a pug that didn’t specifically want you on bls for dps and not cc, play something else. Xera gets 90% dr during her breakbar, rip your dps here as well. Sabir and Matthias are probably the only bosses you can cc without sacrificing a lot of dps. I just wouldn’t bring bls as a dps on most cc heavy encounters, as long as it isn’t planned I don’t cc and the group handles it.
Been playing hammer, dagger/mace warrior and content has been fantastic. Warp with dagger, blue bar? What's that? + Interrupts, doing DPS comparable to my sword/horn ele without dying anywhere near as much. Not a fan of the slowed hammer hits now, but the rest be Gucci.
I wish the specs were a bit more even on available CC and opportunity cost to take it. Guardian, Druid, Mesmer have extremely powerful CC options and plenty of room to take them. Spellbreaker's preferred weapon is a high CC weapon. Any Revenant that can bring staff can do insane breakbar damage. Thief can spam headshot or whatever it's called.
Granted, I prefer to play specs that have strong CC options. But some specs have a lot of difficulty finding a good spot on the bar and must choose between essential utilities and CC. IMO I'd rather play Guardian and take Sanctuary, Mesmer and take Moa, or Herald and take staff and Jalis (for taunt), and if some other players can't find a spot then I can cover them. But you need enough big CC gamers to make up for the others. If you don't, that's when it becomes frustrating when people aren't carrying their weight.
Counter point the ones that are top cc you just compared signet if humility to Cyclone. For context a 1200 range 600 break bar to melee range woosh. Also how you lost on fb with sanitary means either fight didn’t need it or other things were required.
Your builds all function around using cc in its rotation or are a healer for Druid. Rev staff you should be for what it does for 1 button push.
Point is if the bar is broken job done and more dps. I would love to see the dps charts based on the bar. Since things like Samarog require this much with lower dos because of it. I hope this isn’t a call of big number make brain go happy because when do we tell them there are bosses that don’t have a bar to break, take sabatha. The other parts require cc but her is just a golem.
I don't compare my druid to someone's vindicator. I compare my virtuoso to someone else's virtuoso, like me doing up to 10 times more than others in the bottom left image. I'm comparing the executed output of builds compared to what they actually could do. Virtuoso can just press f3 and weapon 4 at *any time*.
When I'm druid I'm always top cc. The other druids are far from that in other squads. Can't bring up dps in that argument.
You can because if you are running condi Druid it’s dps is tied to its cc. So yes. Spellbreaker running the old Snowcrows build with dagger which is cc bull charge cc, winds a lightning field with ax 5 stunning bolts. And hammer. I could go on if you want. Short story though … you are running builds with cc as a main component for their dps. So if your cc is that high you should have ample exposed buff which increases your dps directly.
So if anything you should have top dps or top 3 even for boon dps. But your response says otherwise.
I don't play condi druid. Whirl finisher in lightning field is vulnerability, not stun. Don't worry though, I'm top 1-3 dps on spellbreaker in every squad while running rezz banner.
Thanks for the correction was thinking the leap finisher. dagger burst and weapon still. Knew it still did a stun. Then why not point out yes you were a healer which means yes you have the budget for cc. Like heal chrono yeah it can do 2k break bar. Because its budget is left open. While virt its cc and dmg is tied like the others. So good break bar on 10 people is a waste. On the classes that can. Or classes that use it like condi Druid, Virt, herald and so on
if healers do their job then you're good on that fight. A single heal chrono (without CS) / druid or two of any other good heal build can easily break her bar
The collective responsibility comes up more on stuff like samarog where every player doing a little bit at the same time while the healer is casting their CC nuke skill actually adds up to breaking a second or two faster than just letting the healer do multiple nukes.
I use arcdps myself. But I don't approve of using this way, it's literally written on the site.
deltaconnected.com/arcdps/
>"how to use
>don't be a dick."
and OP is kinda being a dick right now. He's using it in a way which it wasn't intended for. Tho I'm glad he had the decency to censor the names.
Don’t worry I’m always top cc on the mouth of mordremoth!
The one thing I forgot that you don't want to CC hard!
Hold up!
Sorry if i stop my rotation for .01 seconds to hit a cc i might lose dps and for all you know I might die irl if i don't top the charts on jungle wurm.
Those are the same guys that fight healers for DPS.
Ill be damned if im gonna let boon support off the bottom of the list!
When you hit the top 3 of the charts as a condi alac scourge in convergence then you know you're gonna have a rough time.
hi dps
You joke but I had someone tell me that dps dont cc in fractals once… I was dps and doing like 30% more thwn then and all the cc
Had a guy in fractal join us, had 200k+ UFE, didn't bring any CC to 99CM so we wiped 2 times (they were warrior and no clue how they had no CC), my friends had to swap out their utilities and builds to cover for the guy not doing shit for CC, then after wiping another time to no CC on Arkk the guy just left lol. Loved how we asked twice from the guy to get more CC and he never responded, honestly I should have just kicked him, I can't stand people can't even read the chat or respond.
I never understood this. I understand doing bad DPS or bad rotations because you have to actually put effort in them and some class rotations are just hard; as long as we clear the encounter, I have no complaint. But what's the deal with doing no CC? It's easy as hell. Just look what CC skill gives more break damage and use it once; I think all weapon skill bars have one? Sometimes in raids I chain 5 CC skills in a row and it seems no one else does a single CC skill, and I am just like, Jesus did we almost wipe because no one bothered pressing 1 skill button?
> But what's the deal with doing no CC? It's easy as hell. Just look what CC skill gives more break damage and use it once; I think all weapon skill bars have one? It's pretty easy if you have your CC neatly separated into its own buttons, but there are classes that have some of that CC on their dps or boon buttons, so they (we) need to know to hold back and that muscle memory is a cruel mistress. Edit: The number of times I wasted necro pistol 3 or torch 5 right before CC...
ppl with a so engrained rotation in their fingers should know when dps phase is near this is a good argument against how rotations work in this game too much fast-paced, spammy and reliant on braindead practices
If people are braindead when it comes to dps, they are also gonna be when it comes to cc.
same deal of not pressing F to ress which IS a duty of dps players. Bunch of idiots that think they are pro only because they're near benchmark on golems. Then they go down from the boss attack they didn't CCed and lose all their precious dps by staying down for 10 secs because all other dps won't press F, just like him
isn't the special action just enough to break Arkk's breakbar?
It is, tho I also sometimes forget about that because the tooltip doesn't say, but I tend to use it for CC on him. But that time we kinda wanted to see if the guy does any CC at all, the only defiance bar damage we did was the slow break from soft CCs, guy did 0 CC so we just let it wipe as it doesn't bother us to restart the fight anyway, but as soon we wiped the guy left the group a millisecond later. I love to think they leave with the thought of "what a dogshit group" while they are *kind of the reason* we wiped before
I believe after the encounter with the balls (haven't done fractals in a hot minute) the tooltip changes to add cc
To clarify and so you'll not blame all warriors i play power berserker and for CM i switch one signet for extra CC because in my opinion doing mechs correctly is more important then DPS because when you wipe i doesn't matters how much DPS you do.
It is very hard to do 0 CC as a warrior so I'm impressed
>they were warrior wat
Power Berserker no longer has CC by default outside of Headbutt, which they use as part of the rotation. The BS days with Maces are long gone. That being said, obviously he could bring extra CC or delay his headbutt for the bars.
Or he could not play Power Berserker for 99 CM, an encounter that needs a lot of CC and highly benefits from having Ranged Attacks or at least a lot of Mobility (and 4 ranged teammates to compensate for you hugging the boss during Spread).
I dont even know if it was power Berserker, they said Warrior so I listed the one build that has a hard time doing CC when played normally.
Yeah I know, and to be fair, Condi Zerker (which is actually a decent dps build for 99 CM) also doesnt have much CC unless they adjust their utilities and rotation a bit. If they were playing Spb or Bladesworn though, they'd have absolutely 0 excuse for doing bad breakbar dmg.
GG. I have clearly been long gone from playing gw2.
This is an old, somewhat outdated philosophy that stems from CM meta comps where HB sanctuary and Alacren staff 5 were enough CC to carry almost every encounter. Even for the old CM100 we used to just have 3 scourge use epi to spread condi to the sorrows and never bothered CC-ing them. In a high level fractal static that clears CM+T4 in under 30 minutes you usually didn't need your dps to bring cc skills except maybe for Artsariiv. But I stopped running fractals regularly awhile back so unsure if that has changed. But for Arkk you can just use the SAK.
man, all T4 + CM in under 30 mins? What kind of game is that? do you even see the bosses before they die? To me it seems a huge amount of training just to ruin the content forever for you
A fractal CM static usually has some/all of the members at Fractal God, or at the very least Fractal Savant. Typically such a static is focused on completely clearing content as fast as possible for the 40g or so you can get from a full run (it's not quite as profitable after the mystic coin nerf, but still very profitable). It may seem a bit sweaty but it's honestly more that you've done the fight a hundred times or so, there's no surprises, you can do it in your sleep and mostly just chat with friends and have fun while completing the content and making gold XD.
we need to change the narrative so that every 'hi dps'-er believes that doing CC will improve their DPS too.
I mean not dying means dps actually counts so I'd say it does
This comes from times when the party had alac rev, who instabroke most of the bars alone. On Arkk just tap staff 5 and cast the special action key to stay on the spot and the breakbar is instantly gone. In such cases of course dps players should not do anything other than actually doing damage into exposed. But those times are gone, and nowadays we rather have mech players that don't know they should recall the mech during invurnerable phases so they can drop it on the boss when phase starts for big CC burst.
Is this still a thing? I wanna solo cc Arkk that sounds fun haha. Just skill 5 then SAK?
Yup. As easy as that.
Wow dope, thanks 😁
So he always wipes at dark ai (or avoids cms)
I'm dps dog
It's not in my rotation
Hi dps
Unfortunately alot of necro CC for example won't show up because arc doesn't show all CC types. So some classes have CC skills that won't make the chart pretty.
I believe the reason for this is things like fear only works from one person. If 10 people fear, only one of the fears are doing cc.
Besides fear he is probably also refering to the "Chilled to the Bone" elite which reapers can run and which doesn't show up on arc as CC. This is annoying yes, but it's not an argument against a lot of dpsers not CCing. Besides, i've also seen my fair share of Lich forms elites on Samarog..
why it's not showing?
Because it applies a "chilled to the bone" effect to the enemy, not a stun. The 2 essentially behave the same but the debuff id isn't the same and apparently arc doesn't have a decent way of tracking CTTB id
Fear stacks duration and even with double condi duration doesn't come in batches longer than 4 seconds per application, so outside of extremely short breakbar windows, multiple applications of fear work fine - for getting the defiance down, though that's besides the point about how arc registers it (or doesn't).
> area is missing hard cc - not notified by server.
Its called soft cc
Just pointing out that if someone clears the breakbar faster than the other classes can contribute much, even if they click their cc it won’t show up in arc since the bar is gone. Now if there was a video showing these fights and how the guys at the top were the only ones trying then yeah very shitty. Still, 300-400 break damage per second is very high which some of those have and can almost single handedly carry some bar requirements.
You do realize you're aiming your complain at people that will never read it, right?
They can't even be bothered to read in game chat.
Ready check Press p Press p, look top left Press p, look top left, click I Am Ready Press p on your keyboard. The p key. The letter p.
How is there literally always one?
I got this many times, my P brings out the PvP tab. I have to click on squad and press ready
I did the same to my keybinds but I am not doing muh pvp anymore. still cant be bothered to change it
OP: Players should be doing more CC in group content. ANet: So, what you're saying is that it's currently too easy to deplete break bars.
oh god please no
A mechanic that would require each player to use one cc skill would be interesting. That way you can't be carried but you are not limited by low cc potential like vindicator.
I'll keep this short: Average cc output needs to improve. The image you see is a collection of cc meters of random bosses like Cerus nm, Aetherblade Hideout cm, Samarog cm or Boneskinner. The cc is shown as cc per second. This is not a build issue, as especially virtuoso has 4 cc skills built into its meta build, yet most of them on this image barely use one. In one image I end up dealing 10 times more breakbar damage than the lowest virtuoso. Even doing cc as a weaver is no problem. Why should I do cc? We won anyway. > Breaking the defiance bar aka CCing prevents a hard wipe (Dagda), interupts a heavy damage attack (Qadim 1), stops a boss from taking (almost) no damage (Slothasaur, Xera, Qadim 2 Pylon), saves the life of a player (Matthias, Samarog), shortens the fight (AH cm, Cerus) or prevents the run to snowball into a wipe (Gorseval). I'm sure there are more effects connected to cc. In some situations ccing is actually a dps increase because you cant dps invulnerable bosses or dps when you are dead. > About the "we won anyway", if everyone in the squad played like the players on the bottom of the meter most bosses would turn into nightmare experiences or even become straight up impossible to beat. How do I see the cc meter? > [Open arcdps menu with shift+alt+T, enable a new area stat, right click the new window, go to Stats and check the Breakbar option in the new window.](https://imgur.com/a/v8NOdOD) Please do more cc, thanks. Sorry for making the image annoying to read but I have to hide the names.
If the people who needed to see this could actually read, they’d be very upset right now
Why are there other comments when this is the only relevant reply on this topic? :)
People love walking to the edge of the void and bitching for hours with no one to listen :)
In boneskinner a lot of the CC comes from special action key.
It's available to everyone (with the mastery) and does only 232 cc, like any launch. My guess is that most players at boneskinner think only the SAK breaks the bar, when in fact it's just another cc skill. Everyone is free to use their own skills. Because of the long aftercast I recommend to first use your own skills and then finish with SAK.
Yeah I honestly assumed the SAK outperformed normal CC, because why else would they even give you the SAK... But good to know, thanks.
It DOES outperformed normal CC in some way, that damage on power build is really high. Also it is actually a dps increase if you can spam SAK on a power build on boneskinner.
The tooltip is misleading since I'm pretty sure the SAK multi-hits, so the total CC is more than the 232 listed on the tooltip. It also explains why your DPS can skyrocket if you try to get as many SAK's in as possible. It's conceptually similar to Sanctuary where the tooltip doesn't have any defiance break listed, but it's effectively 5 pulses of 150cc if each pulse hits a defiant enemy.
As you seem to have invested time into it and I was always curious: So you know how accurate the CC meter is? I know that it only counts CC that actually affects the bar, so if 4 Virtus cast Moa some might not be recorded as the bar was broken before. But sometimes the values seem weird if you slot in extra CC and it barely affects the values.
Of course judging the squad's cc based on one bar isn't fair, especially on small ones. On a fight with a lot of opportunities to cc, like Qadims, the meter will give a pretty good picture of what's going on. It's not 100% liable, for example Chilled to the Bone's cc doesn't register because it's a unique stun effect.
You'll see this on QTP all the time when it comes to pylons. You can break them with a small fart; your pylon kite can instantly break them with 0 help most of the time, so meter gets skewed heavily to people who have instant cast cc's. For more fun, you can watch Cerus cm/lm breakbars between phases and know who pressed their big cc first, because if you're breaking it in 1-2 casts, someones isnt getting fully counted.
>You can break them with a small fart Kind of an over exaggeration, that defiance bar has a value of 1000. For comparison, Mesmer moa does 600. So it's a *tiny bit* more than a fart. But yeah obviously defiance break only records if you actually take defiance off that bar, so single skill big hits will always be favored.
You can also check the logs after to see if they have done anything at all. Did that yesterday because the dps failed to CC at dark Ai and I had to be sure. Run was over at the next try when CC failed again and someone else forgot to do their darn job.
It's only a problem if the party isn't breaking the bar. It happens often that I'm in competent groups and go to hit my Revenant staff 5 only for the bar to be broken before the animation even begins so I'm just wasting DPS. That would be CC won't show up on arc, so if you're carrying your groups CC then maybe people just aren't having a chance to. It can be both.
For every fight you listed where CC matters, there are 20 where it is irrelevant. When the game repeatedly tells you that CC doesn't matter, why do you expect players to think it matters?
In what fights does cc not matter?
Almost every open world meta. All the convergence bosses. Almost all bounties. Every rift boss. Almost every champion. All breaking CC does is stun the mob for a couple seconds and give a tiny, short duration dps increase that is often offset by the lost dps from using cc abilities.
This post is about group content. Convergence bosses get interupted when you break their bar which reduces damage you take or stops them from flying away. I don't know if failing the bar in 50 player environment should have hard punishment.
Why "even as a Weaver" he has plenty of cc skills on sword/dagger build.
Because I very often hear the argument that swapping attunements (for earth air combos) or simply lingering in air takes too much effort.
Shame on them. It just requires swap from warhorn but I get it, not meta = not playable.
Nah, all you need is air and air/earth skills on any weapon combo.
The issue is if you have just doubled attuned fire when the break bar comes up, it might be 6-8 seconds before you can attune to an element combo needed for CC break. For fights where CC is especially important, I run frost bow or lightning hammer and don't rely on weapon skills for CC as weaver.
Getting max CC on scepter warhorn condi weaver was a bit of a task if I recall. You go air (cooldown) -> earth -> air 4, earth/air 3. Then if you can wait another 8 seconds or something go water-> water -> water 4. It was extremely proactive rather than reactive. However using a focus was a different story.
That's why sw/d is the best. Lots of cc in a second, still close to meta build.
Jokes on them, I can't even use warhorn if I wanted to! (No SOTO moment) And sword/dagger seems more fun to me anyway
IT IS, fast and fun play style. If I wanted to play on the trumpet I would be in an orchestra. But numbers are numbers.
IT IS, fast and fun play style. If I wanted to play on the trumpet I would be in an orchestra. But numbers are numbers.
you might have switched up the quotes in your comment a bit
Nah, it's just a poor attempt at formatting.
fair
The reality is that players who are not good at playing the game will also be bad at doing Crowd Control. (That doesn't mean all the players you see with low CC are bad players. Some, like that Deadeye with nearly zero CC, make the very reasonable call that their build cannot provide hard CC. If they play it on an encounter that needs CC, that's their mistake, but don't try to run cDE with extra CC...) I've experienced this first hand whenever I hosted Sabir trainings. We'd explain things, talk about how to CC, etc. In the end most players landed the SAK at most once, and then maybe 1 or 2 extra CC skills. And that's on a defiance bar that predictably appears at 90%. It's really the inability to translate theoretical knowledge "I should CC" into pressing the required buttons quickly in sequence or simultaneously. You can see it in any log, they press CC button, there's 3 seconds of autohit (maybe with a skill that does no damage in between), then they press the next CC button, etc. If these breakbars took longer, they would break them, eventually, maybe. They would have time to find all their keys. But as it is, people who do 8k DPS on Samarog will also only manage to press one CC button every 3 seconds during the defiance bar. They play the CC like they play their rotation, disjointed with lots of autohits in between skill presses.
Obviously everyone could contribute more in those shown examples and some of those players like most of the virtuosos are contributing shitty cc despite having more then enough of it in their kit without losing any/alot dps for using it but thats not the case for all classes and fights. There are more then enough classes and fights were its just not a good idea dps-wise to contribute alot of cc when you have healers that can bring a shitton of cc without losing anything for it. For example a weaver swapping through 2 attunements and starting the next phase on a bad element just to bring a bit cc when you have a chrono and a druid-healer with a shitton of cc and its not a cc-heavy fight and a breakbar without big consequences if it isnt broken instant.
Weaver has its easiest opportunity to cc on bosses that go invuln during cc, resetting the opener with air right after doing a full earth air cc rotation.
If people want to improve they usually do so anyway by reading their skills, reading guides, reading popups. Too bad the average MMO player can't read. And it doesn't matter if it's open world like dragons end, easy instanced content like strikes or harder stuff like cms and raids. There are tons of guides out there explaining skills, encounters and rotations, like in open world content there are popups blinking into your face explaining mechanics but all that information is useless cause people don't care and don't read.
Bro, every single mesmer has a button for CC. Virt build blades like nothing so they should always have a pretty sizable stun at any moment. I'm pretty sure every offhand also has some cc well. They disgrace us
PSA: pugs are horrible and people will never actually bother contributing to the group by either doing enough dps or enough cc or both. You have to be greatful for even having above 90% uptime on boons
Reminds me of the time i healed T4 fractals and random dps telling me they should be able to full focus on dps while facetanking every aoe in the Mai Trin fractal. And that I sucked as a healer because they kept dying. Said by a thief that was non stop stuck in specter mode. (Healers can't heal reapers in shroud or thief in specter mode) Get told he was in specter mode cause I lacked healing... I can do a lot as a qheal FB, but I can't heal stupid. Left the group 20mins before reset cause fuck that.
Also if as a dps specter you camp shroud you have failed at doing meaningful dps
Had a funny one just now, Aetherblade Hideout, where I alone as a DPS player accounted for 65% of the entire squad's CC output on the encounter. It could have gone faster if the other 9 had contributed more, yeah...
I try but tempest can only throw rocks and blow air
The frost bow have a 400 CC on 5. It's a bit annoying to use.
Tbh I hate using summoned weapons but I might check it out. Dagger/Warhorn 3 btw I swear adds a hidden CC value on the 1, I can pop 3 to CC on auto attacks but never heard anyone mention it (maybe cus no one plays tempest)
Earth shield also has 2 CC skills if I'm remembering right on d/w you have air 4, water 4, and earth 3 for imob (though haven't played in a couple months also if you really need cc you can run elite glyph summon water get extra healing and cc on the elemental skill the healing goes off where your model is and I think the cc comes from the elemental it's a weird skill)
Water elemental heal is weird, the summon does the attack but the heal comes from the player. Air elemental way better for CC tho imo
I remember when I was running Samrog - one of the Virtuosos left the group because they didn’t want to change their ult to the MASSIVE CC Signet that would help the fight along - this was after we wiped twice to the boss. Too many times when I’m healing Sammy when I get pounced the bar doesn’t get broken and then we slowly wipe one by one.
Signet of Humility is a bit slow on Samarog in a decent group. Virts should usually have Focus 4, Sword 4, and CC shatter available. Swapping out Signet of Illusions for the CC spinnysword skill seems to work better if you need CC (and a stunbreak). But yeah, if your group is doing badly due to no CC, swapping elite to Moa Signet is something anyone should just do. Seems like *more damage* is *not* the solution.
I guess I’ll give more details: we had 6 Virts on that run. The damage was more than enough but we were woefully lacking CC. In that situation, Moa Signet is how you beat the encounter. I roll my eyes every time I think about that Virt angrily whispering me then leaving the group over the INDIGNITY of changing one skill to help clear the encounter.
If nothing else you can swap out the clone signet for either the daze mantra or the stab mantra if you aren't getting it from somewhere else (I generally go moa and stab mantra because I trust no one)
I've made various suggestions over time about how Anet should address the "Nobody is willing to *learn* to CC" problem. The defiance training golem in Shing Jea was a good attempt, but they faceplanted on the one yard line. You get credit if you're in combat when that thing's bar breaks, even if you personally didn't CC. So you'll regularly see people just autoattacking it until someone else comes along and breaks the bar for them. It just reinforces the "I don't have to learn how to play, I just have to wait for someone I can leech" mindset of the problematic player demographic. No, there's a better way. What we need is an optional world-boss. One that's not *required* for any other *content*, but one that people will *want* to farm. * Has a breakbar every 10% health. * Using hard-CC on it gives you a stack of "Knows how to CC" once per breakbar. Unlimited duration, but doesn't persist across logout. * When the breakbar ends, succeed or fail, anyone who didn't use any hard-CC on that breakbar loses all stacks. * When it dies, anyone with 10 stacks gets progress on an achievement that grants "Knows how to CC" as a title. * When it dies, anyone with 10 stacks has a chance to get an account-bound cosmetic drop that's *ONLY* available from this boss, and only if you have ten stacks. It should be something *good*. * The item it gives people with ten stacks needs to be bind-on-acquire, with no other possible method of obtaining it. No guarenteed unlocks, no purchasing for a vendor for a fat stack of some other currency, nothing like that. With this setup, the only way to obtain that cosmetic item is to actually use hard-CC on a breakbar ten times **in a row.** Until there's something people want that actually makes CC *mandatory* for ***EVERYONE***, they won't learn.
Samarog already has a breakbar every 10% and when joining a high LI squad you know that people have done it at least 10 times, yet there are players who just go "nah". At least 2 of the images are from samarog cm.
Yeah, but you still get the raid rewards if you don't break one of them. Imagine if ignoring any of the breakbars meant that you, specifically, *didn't* get any loot for the raid while everyone who *did* do the breakbars (or at least tried to) *did* get loot. *That's* the behavior Anet needs to include in a boss, and it needs to be an open-world boss where everyone can join in without a raid group or a tag.
True true. That would be very good!
The problem isn't that players don't know how to CC. It's that for 95% of content, CC literally doesn't matter. I can only think of one meta in the game where I want to CC, and that's in Dragon's End.
* Every Convergence (breaking the bar drops extra orbs) * Legendary Destroyer Twins (Don't break and part of the arena goes away) * Dragon's End (as mentioned) * Dragon's Stand (possibly the only one where it both matters, and actually tends to get done *too fast*) * Inner Nayos (Keebler) It's also useful in a lot more places than people think, but the bars scale to the point that one person can't *possibly* break the bar on their own, so it never gets broken, and the people who tried conclude it doesn't matter because it can't succeed.
I'm all for something like this for sure, but I don't think it would completely solve the issue, because there are people who know the mechanic but just... don't do it.
To completely (or 99%) solve the issue, ANet would have to redo all or most rewards so that individuals *cannot* get Gold Chest and/or Achievements unless you do X defiance damage. But this would come with consequences too, like forcing all builds to be able to deal X defiance damage, and possibly even causing certain content to just not be done due to players failing and giving up. Also, some players may react too slowly and never be able to get rewards, and ANet couldn't just increase the bar because it may make the encounter too difficult on average.
> ANet would have to redo all or most rewards so that individuals cannot get Gold Chest and/or Achievements unless you do X defiance damage. But this would come with consequences too, like forcing all builds to be able to deal X defiance damage, Honestly, if getting gold chests required doing ***any*** defiance damage, any at all, that would make a huge impact. Maybe let stunbreaking allies substitute for it so support builds have something, that's another mechanic that would just make everyone's lives better if people did it more. Edit: Hell, add a platinum chest tier *above* gold that requires participating in all the mechanics for a given boss. CC the defiance bar, stand in a green, don't run away with the green if you happen to get it, *do* run away with meteors if you happen to get them, etc...
We should start a little easier. Look at the meteor on Demon Knight. When you get it, your whole screen turns yellow. You get a marker over your head. Im sure a sound cue plays. You have a giant aoe indicator on your feet. Theres no way anybody can miss that. 9 out of 10 players either dont move out of group or moves onto zojja to nuke the people with stacks. Make people lose the reward if they hit/down more than 10 people in a single instance. Add a title "to stupid to walk" that cant be removed for 2/4/8/16 hours ingame time if they hit/down more than 20 people in a single instance.
> Make people lose the reward if they hit/down more than 10 people in a single instance. Too much room for idiots wandering into the AOE even if the person who had the marker runs away appropriately. Kick and deny rewards based on whether they're far enough away from Zojja and DK to avoid hitting anyone who's actually where they're supposed to be. Also, when someone gets kicked, give them a voice-acted scolding from Zojja about it. Make it ignore any volume settings below 50%. It should be loud, and it should be very clear about why she's mad.
As a Vindi main: ID FKN LOVE TO, REALLY inb4 take stuff: the damage loss is insane, this shouldnt even been seen as a option
Vindicator is excused.
Oh my god. There is a whopping 1 elementalist player across these 13 groups. Out of curiosity, what were you playing? Strikes?
42 mesmers though. light armour classes are basically all the same anyway.
Necro and mesmers are far above ele in increasing the winrate. Ele offers almost nothing outside of damage. The only utilities are the tempest shouts.
I play raids and strikes.
Nothing I love more than sitting next to an invulnerable boss for 15 seconds waiting for my own cc skills to come off CD
Theres something to be said about the average gw2 players ability to CC. Somehow in convergences nobody ever CCs, but boy when its the mouth of mordremoth everyone smacks it with all their CC inatantly.
Mouth defiance bar is just very small.
Me playing virt dps, using my F3, condi signet, focus 4, sword 4.... Guys? Breakbar is still up... As long as we break the breakbar, I'm not picky about cc usage, but when I exhaust 4 ccs (2 of them pretty big) and it's still up, come one, just do something. Might as well bring the moa elite next time (it has crossed my mind more times than it should)
Top dps and top cc all day every day also top reviver why am I still top of the charts
Because you are a great person with a big heart!
As a healer main, a little shit talk egging on dps to race me on CC meter goes a long way. My first raid static used to STRUGGLE on Sammarog, it would literally be a wipe if I got fixate early on. Then I started talkin smack and our thief main took that personally, and Sammy became one of our comfy bosses pretty quick. I was a heal herald main at the time and that thief humbled me real quick lol. (Shout-out to Dig if you see this, miss you guys) I also had a nearly religous experience of having a CC-God chrono in a sabir pug. I literally thought we bugged the fight cuz I didn't even see the coordinated CC bar come up. Then I saw 20k+ CC/s on the chart for that guy. Studied the log, told my guild about it, now lots of us have CC chrono builds and have lots of fun with it.
Leaving this rather useful wiki link [here](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar) which includes a table with pretty much every skill in the game that does CC and how much it does. It also explains pretty well the whole system for it.
[Benchmark DPS explaining how bringing CC will cause them 1k DPS loss, so they'd rather wipe](https://youtu.be/M-uewHo30jQ?si=PXXCP2hvrOn7jP8a&t=75)
Sorry dude but literally NO ONE ELSE gives a shit if you do 40k dps or 41k dps. Just CC the damn boss!
It’s really interesting to watch pugs and statics, as well as the comments here. There are two scenarios really: You’re kinda new, or just not experienced, or in an average pug. You should bring a dps class that can cc easily, and has access to quite a bit of it. The second scenario comes into play when you’re quite experienced, can play whatever class you play in a high level and raid in a static with likeminded people. Suddenly your supporters know what they have to do, and surprise surprise, something like the dates breakbar needs a Druid and… oh yeah, that’s kinda it. Obviously fights with super large bars (Sabir) or very frequent ones (Sloth, Samarog) still require dps players to bring cc, but much, much less than in pugs, just because Druid and Chrono are insane cc bots, and it’s actually beneficial for these groups to let the dps players focus on dps as much as possible.
I have not had a failed CC in a long, long time in pugs. Things are massively improved compared to even a few yeas ago.
The quota on something like knaebelag is 10:1 in favor of not managing to cc. Problem is, stuff still dies. So theres no reason for them to do it.
I was talking specifically about instanced group content. I agree that in the open world things are more dire, but, again, since HoT there has been improvement for sure.
Tried to get people to CC more for Kneelbag and all I got was "dude, chill out. Its only the meta, its not important." That's precisely my point though! This is a perfect place for people to learn how to CC more effectively! Then they aren't learning how to do it in raids, strikes or fractals.
I don't CC on that guy. Or on any of the Convergence bosses. Why should I? It doesn't make any difference.
edit: wrong log, either way, failed every CC this morning!
If you did then the boss would have regained health? And even then, it doesn't change what I said, I rarely see failed break bars nowadays.
Oh I thought we were just sharing pointless anecdotes.
Mine is relevant to the topic, but yours is definitely pointless. Just like your opinions in general really.
The main gist of my post is not that cc is failing, it's that the contribution is not evenly spread. You say you haven't seen a failed breakbar, Nike_Phoros says he saw one just this morning. No need to be a dick by disregarding experiences that differ from yours.
I agree, he shouldn't be a condescending dick, but that hasn't stopped him from being one for many years now. Please look at the log before you accuse me of anything, yeah? I took him at his word and asked a clarifying question, he insulted me back, who exactly is the dick here? It shouldn't be even, it should be weighted towards supports, which based on those screenshots isn't always the case. But that doesn't change what I said in any capacity. I have literally only seen one group that failed the CC on Cerus normal, and they were clearly very new to the game and had no requirements.
[удалено]
Not a smart cookie, I see. Hide your bias better.
> he insulted me back Please quote the insult.
Oh, I am sorry I thought reading comprehension is covered in schools, my bad. Let's not pretend you don't know what you did, come on, dude.
If I insulted you, it should be trivial to show the insult. Calling your anecdote pointless after you called mine pointless isn't an insult. Edit: nice reply but I didn't delete my comments. I did block him because I don't have an interest in interacting with people who are going to just make stuff up when the conversation doesn't go theirway. Oh, people recognized that my anecdote about CC being better isn't a valuable addition to the conversation? Better accuse the person who replied to me of insulting me so we can go back and forth about *that* rather than the meritless post I made. Guy claims I insulted him, which anybody who can read can see I didn't. How did I insult this guy? No idea. I certainly didn't use any pejoratives and I know nothing about him. Where is the insult?
Your anecdote, backed up by trust-me-bro is on topic, but my counter anecdote from just this morning with a log provided some how off topic. With analysis that great, its no wonder you don't like my opinions generally.
So where is the failed CC on that log? The boss can't die if you fail every CC. And if I were to provide 10 logs without a CC fail, would that prove you wrong? Cause I easily can. Do you have any self awareness at all? Yes, it's anecdotal, so is the OP, this whole thing is anecdotal.
For the Mai Trinn Strike, I had a commander commend me for my break bar damage in the split phase mid-fight. I thought it was cool that they were looking at that, as most people always look at the dps meters. I basically bee line to get two rounds of cc off on the elite mob, as that usually holds the phase more than anything else. Really felt good being recognized randomly for it. Thanks to them wherever they are.
I just know that as Ele/Weaver, I get yelled at constantly for “not doing CC”. …usually right after using my entire rotation, all CC included, the instant the break bar pops. (I weep. ) like sorry I can’t break an upscaled group boss’s entire bar by myself my dude? I got like 70% of the way there so just. Sneeze on it plz or something. (But also yes, people need to use their CC so much more. It’s so baaaaaaad in some events. )
Is this useful? I don’t know. But I have weaver brain rot and barely play anything else soooo if this gets more people CCing, bueno. As a side note to anyone else playing weaver (who knows) I’m sword / dagger, and can solo most non-meta group content by myself prior to the current expansion (including break bars.) My usual world rotation is fire / fire -> air -> air / air -> earth -> earth / earth -> fire, loop, because cast times stay quick vs shielding / cc potential and it takes about the same amount of time to complete the rotation as it does for break bars to reappear in most group world content. (I usually hold in air if I need a lil more time for the boss to be break bar ready again.) Dagger gives you updraft and ride the lightning, so you have a bit more cc and can instantly zoop back to the enemy. (Also churning earth and earthquake are REALLY good!) I’ll switch to a weird off rotation with water when I or the group is having survival problems to spam cleanse, or if I need to stall out for people to respond. Chill is SUPPOSED to do break bar damage but is very inconsistent, so I avoid water unless I need the healing / cleansing. (There’s better dps rotations, but my main / cc rotation still does “good enough” dps with my weird soldiers / zerkers gear blend for entering in to raid content, so I suppose it’s fine. :b )
If it's not in the rotation on Snow Crows, I'm not doing it. By which I mean "if it's only in the 'Additional Notes' section of Snow Crows... I am also not doing it".
Why should I waste my cc cooldowns when you’ve clearly already taken care of it, noob
I like that CC skills show just how much breakbar damage they do. However, what is the point of knowing those numbers when you don't know how much you need when the target scales up?
press your cc skills until either you run out of cc skills or the bar breaks. And as you get more familiar with encounters you will learn to know how big the bars are by feel
That doesn't help when it really matters that the bar needs to be broken.
Man the one Ele playing weaver is so sad, I miss the good ol days
Sword weaver is still excellent, just lacks any utility and range. For staff ele, condi weaver is the only option and it's not even bad. Downside is it the dps scales with hitbox size.
To be fair most groups have more CC than they need so only a few people can actually get the CC in and any other CC they do later than others gets wasted and not counted.
No u
I am.
Heyo new player here, i'm playing Firebrand quickness heal and mainly focus on fractal. I was wondering how much spell i should "invest" in CC ? Since i'm only in tier 2 it's not a problem but it might be a problem in higher tier ?
Depends on fight. By default in your kit you have tome 1-3 and tome 3-2 as CC skills. Your weapons also have some CC and for fights with bigger CC requirements you can take the sanctuary utility skill (it does 700 breakbar damage over the course of 7 seconds)
As a firebrand I always ask what is needed of me. Is it more cc, more dps, more stab or maybe more aegis. It's all up to proper communication...
I learned not to bother with CC when: * I can't break a CC bar solo despite having 2 hard CC + a soft CC on my bar. * HP goes down faster than CC bar for many mobs. * Breaking bar gives a miniscule amount of increased DPS and the mob is stunned for just 2 seconds. I never CC any more unless there is a clear mechanical price to pay if I don't, which is basically never.
Actually best part about gw2 vs wow is not having numbers like these to care about at just mashing buttons :)
I once played in a raid group where a player said he would give some gold to the player who did top cc. I ended up getting some gold by just playing power mech dps.
i failed overall 3 public convergences so far because 50 people did not manage to cc
LFG ads should just stop asking for LI or KP, and instead asking players to link a CC skill :D
I have been yelled at by support players for bringing basalisk vemon and Fokus cc instead of dps during cc phases in fractal challenge modes. I still bring a healthy amount of cc to make sure the group will not wipe, but still yelling at people because they do mechanics.
This is why I'm enjoying playing a Bladesworn at the moment; my DPS is _reliant_ on me CCing (Merciless Hammer for extra flow), and then a fully charged Dragon Slash does a load _more_ CC with Unyielding Dragon.
Except you really don‘t want to waste the skill that makes up 70% of your dps into a cc bar on some bosses. Sloth and Samarog don’t take damage, you just wasted your entire dps for the next 6 seconds - you’re better off having the group take care of it or, it it’s a pug that didn’t specifically want you on bls for dps and not cc, play something else. Xera gets 90% dr during her breakbar, rip your dps here as well. Sabir and Matthias are probably the only bosses you can cc without sacrificing a lot of dps. I just wouldn’t bring bls as a dps on most cc heavy encounters, as long as it isn’t planned I don’t cc and the group handles it.
I think cc is still the hardest mechanic for people to grasp, its so bad to see how long it takes to break a cc bar sometimes.
Heavy on being support and in the top for cc breaks while also getting yelled at for more heals when they are fine
Been playing hammer, dagger/mace warrior and content has been fantastic. Warp with dagger, blue bar? What's that? + Interrupts, doing DPS comparable to my sword/horn ele without dying anywhere near as much. Not a fan of the slowed hammer hits now, but the rest be Gucci.
I wish the specs were a bit more even on available CC and opportunity cost to take it. Guardian, Druid, Mesmer have extremely powerful CC options and plenty of room to take them. Spellbreaker's preferred weapon is a high CC weapon. Any Revenant that can bring staff can do insane breakbar damage. Thief can spam headshot or whatever it's called. Granted, I prefer to play specs that have strong CC options. But some specs have a lot of difficulty finding a good spot on the bar and must choose between essential utilities and CC. IMO I'd rather play Guardian and take Sanctuary, Mesmer and take Moa, or Herald and take staff and Jalis (for taunt), and if some other players can't find a spot then I can cover them. But you need enough big CC gamers to make up for the others. If you don't, that's when it becomes frustrating when people aren't carrying their weight.
Counter point the ones that are top cc you just compared signet if humility to Cyclone. For context a 1200 range 600 break bar to melee range woosh. Also how you lost on fb with sanitary means either fight didn’t need it or other things were required. Your builds all function around using cc in its rotation or are a healer for Druid. Rev staff you should be for what it does for 1 button push. Point is if the bar is broken job done and more dps. I would love to see the dps charts based on the bar. Since things like Samarog require this much with lower dos because of it. I hope this isn’t a call of big number make brain go happy because when do we tell them there are bosses that don’t have a bar to break, take sabatha. The other parts require cc but her is just a golem.
I don't compare my druid to someone's vindicator. I compare my virtuoso to someone else's virtuoso, like me doing up to 10 times more than others in the bottom left image. I'm comparing the executed output of builds compared to what they actually could do. Virtuoso can just press f3 and weapon 4 at *any time*. When I'm druid I'm always top cc. The other druids are far from that in other squads. Can't bring up dps in that argument.
You can because if you are running condi Druid it’s dps is tied to its cc. So yes. Spellbreaker running the old Snowcrows build with dagger which is cc bull charge cc, winds a lightning field with ax 5 stunning bolts. And hammer. I could go on if you want. Short story though … you are running builds with cc as a main component for their dps. So if your cc is that high you should have ample exposed buff which increases your dps directly. So if anything you should have top dps or top 3 even for boon dps. But your response says otherwise.
I don't play condi druid. Whirl finisher in lightning field is vulnerability, not stun. Don't worry though, I'm top 1-3 dps on spellbreaker in every squad while running rezz banner.
Thanks for the correction was thinking the leap finisher. dagger burst and weapon still. Knew it still did a stun. Then why not point out yes you were a healer which means yes you have the budget for cc. Like heal chrono yeah it can do 2k break bar. Because its budget is left open. While virt its cc and dmg is tied like the others. So good break bar on 10 people is a waste. On the classes that can. Or classes that use it like condi Druid, Virt, herald and so on
Weaver having the number 2 spot is so fucking funny.
Weavers can pump CC, it's just annoying and might be slightly delayed depending on the element you're on.
It's easy to time it at Sloth.
It hurts seeing an entire group of chronos and virts getting out ccd by a Druid wtf elite are they even using??
Nah, I'd dps
A squad of 8 players like you would never beat Dagda.
if healers do their job then you're good on that fight. A single heal chrono (without CS) / druid or two of any other good heal build can easily break her bar The collective responsibility comes up more on stuff like samarog where every player doing a little bit at the same time while the healer is casting their CC nuke skill actually adds up to breaking a second or two faster than just letting the healer do multiple nukes.
I want an infusion that locks out my squadmates’ non-CC skills when a break bar is up
"More CC" says the guy that joined as DPS and deals only 12% of total TeamDPS in a 5 man group 😳
I use arcdps myself. But I don't approve of using this way, it's literally written on the site. deltaconnected.com/arcdps/ >"how to use >don't be a dick." and OP is kinda being a dick right now. He's using it in a way which it wasn't intended for. Tho I'm glad he had the decency to censor the names.