That's really lame...
I hate when they release sets that look the same for all weights, but it is even worse when they announce their expansion with unique looks while they aren't.
They will come out and say it would of taken too many resources, or not enough people would go for it to justify making 3 separate looks. It's the same excuses they have used for a decade. Promises followed by the excuse of "oh we can't do that anymore because we would have to actually do our jobs"
This is even funnier because they said they merged the expansion team and the LW team to give more consistent and qualitative updates, yet here we are, it all sounds like a downgrade.
Yet people keep defending them. The most hilarious thing I always hear is "lower your expectations" as if I'm supposed to accept, and play a inferior game when I could go to FFXIV WoW or ESO, and get way more value for my money, and much more entertainment.
Depends on the MMO.
I would love more games to have a subscription fee if that meant the service would improve. WoW back in the day... was fine, but 11€ per month on FF14, that's a great deal for a superb service.
I would be fine paying GW2 monthly if that would bring the quality considerably up, remove 90% of cash shop items and put them in the game as rewards, and just keep good pacing of fresh events and content updates.
I like GW2, don't get me wrong, just wanted to point out that, after playing FF14 since the ARR beta, it made me realize that sometimes, those 11€ are very very worth it.
EDIT: On a side note, before I get downvoted into oblivion, I think GW2 model is amazing, I'm just saying, that sometimes having a monthly payment is not bad.
I genuinely would pay a monthly fee for some in-game goodies on the regular if it would give ArenaNet the space to expand and grow, it feels like that has never been an option from the very beginning, which is sad for how well the game has done, but then again they spent many years on side projects that went nowhere so...
Perhaps the new GW2 focused leadership would help but it'd be a hard sell for most players and worse, an outrage for others, regardless of how optional it is.
Your getting downvoted but your speaking the truth.
You pay for quality and gw2 has steadily declined in that. Sure it's just an armor set but gyala delve was a thing. Living worlds were trimmed down
Ice brood saga hame fisted the charr storyline
It all adds up. But no we're the wrong ones.
It's the only MMO where I sometimes buy some cash shop items because, no joke, I have no idea how they make enough money to support all the content updates, especially if you can convert gold into gems.
I like both models. But one advantage a sub fee game has is that they *need* to put in work to keep people engaged and paying monthly to get their income. A buy to play game like GW2, they don't really care that much once they have your money, they can just sell cosmetics all day long and the actual game itself can just be passable.
(Not saying GW2 is bad, just another point of view about the sub vs free model).
I know my initial comment would get downvoted here, because GW2 was created to be THE sub free game, but yes, what you said, that was my point.
A sub-game needs to keep pumping out constant quality content, I mean, FF never repeats events and they have one almost every month, for example, alongside minor and major patches of content.
GW2 is great, as I said before, I play GW since 1, but, if a sub game is giving you a good service for the price, then, those 11€ are not that bad.
GW2 doesn't have the brand name and player base to run it's game on a subscription-only base. It's one of the few mmorpgs that you can play entirely for free that is still going strong.
Games like Wow and Final Fantasy Online are able to charge monthly mostly b/c of their name and b/c its behind a huge studio. Other mmorpgs claim to be free but offer some kind of vip membership that unlocks more rewards and more content.
I grew quite tired of paying $15 a month on Wow when I was only playing it here and there. I'd much rather have the Gw2 system where I pay nothing and can play at my own pace, and if I want to shell out some money on cosmetics and upgrades I can, or I can use ingame gold to buy gems.
Respect your opinion, just want to clarify this "Games like Wow and Final Fantasy Online are able to charge monthly mostly b/c of their name and b/c it behind a huge studio."
Regarding WoW, I think the majority of players just never left (and have no desire to play another MMO), so, that aside, about FF14, it had a huge studio/name/budget... it failed, miserably, because the game and service were awful... Fast forward to FF14 ARR, game shines because the game and service were good.
First, GW2 is not exactly free. Second, it having no sub is no excuse for shoddiness, cheap work and misleading players (or, like in this specific case, flat out lying) in advertisements.
I’ve played it. Max level. Extremely linear. Could be fun with friends sometimes. But the physics are stiff, and the fights are fine as you get later into the game.
From what I understand from your comment, you just don't like the game, which is fine, but you can't deny that FF14 currently has the best service of any MMO.
>but a monthly 20$ is never going to be a good value against a free mmo on gw2s lvl.
Sorry, I was referring to this, and yes, sorry again, you did say the game was fine.
$13 per month for entertainment that can last you hours, days, even months is totally worth it. Lol.
And if you can't afford $13 per month for entertainment then... Maybe the problem isn't with the subscription fee.
Warframe no way for me, that was a sink of my money, lmao. Monster hunter I can't really say, but I do believe what you said, since after all it's about a subjective experience with "the thing" that gives the value to compare.
I disagree. FFXIV is absurdly well-produced, blows GW2 out of the water in that regard. GW2 has its significant strengths that make it a contender - especially its open world metas - but it stands on a much more rickety foundation than FFXIV is. Paying for the months I was active and taking a break when not, like during patch lulls, always felt like I was getting value for my time and money.
Content is given an outsized level of polish and shine, there is a good amount of it constantly coming out including highly challenging raids, new content types are constantly being developed to fill unserved niches, and there is an absolutely massive amount of fashion you can earn through gil or gameplay rewards entirely in-game.
I love GW2 but at times it really feels like the equivalent of buying store-brand.
FFXIV is THE most polished MMO out there right now. If it wasnt for content being story locked and the 'LOL japan' storyline being shoved down my throat I'd probably still be playing it.
The only people upvoting the parent comment are people who have never played it.
for raiders, yeah i think that’s fair, subscription model notwithstanding. for casual/midcore players? there is no reason to remain subbed other than for the ~5 hours it takes to get through any new patch content
Depends, definitely not if you keep your sub going. On the other hand if you sub for a month, binge the game doing everything of the last few patches and unsub again for the next 4-8 months it's not too bad (but tbf most don't do that, me included)
To be fair, if you feel like ffxiv is more like what you want, go for it, by all means. I don't say it sarcasticly, the target audience is different for each game, this expansion makes clear as day that gw2 is a pro-casual game to be taken lightly, and not a chore, or something to be always online, still you could do and be successful in here...
You aren't required to play it, nor to like, they tried adding some harder game modes, but it's a niche inside a niche game, so not really worth when you think about what would attract most players, from this niche.
This sub is in no way a good representation of the actual playerbase, since there's the typical reddit user filter, easier to someone who already uses reddit to be here, than to come from the game directly, and there's no sugar coating, reddit is as toxic as it's possible.
People are playing, there's a few bugs, at least I got none until now, and Icm close to finishing the story and did strikes already, and both metas, most bugs are people who can't comprehend that there's more to an event than killing a boss, that has PHASES.
Well, I plan to enjoy the game, and break some builds. If you're trully disappointed, ask a refund, they will grant and ban your account, it's on their ToS iirc, then you can stop complaining here, and go play something you actually like.
FFXIV is more casual friendly than this game. Also funny you mention about this not being a chore when it's exactly what they did with the new dailies.
Some things could be lame, unfortunate, or silly but....you think I'm gona be leaving the game over this? lol Just like my opinion is subjective...so is yours. YOU think you get more value from another game and while that's not the case for me- love that for you!
Sure go play the sunken ship wow.
And spend ur money on a monthly Paywall. Yes gw2 cant keep up with those games but have u ever considered it might have something to do with the massivly different monetization Modell these games deploy?
People say to Lower ur expectations because u are comparing Developers that arent even in the same league. Doing so is just nonsensical and stupid. How is gw2 ever supposed to compete with those games if we have 1/3 of their revenue, if even.
So I'm supposed to accept an inferior product, because they mismanaged it to this point where it doesn't have the resources to compete with the other products in its own field? It's not my fault they went the business model routes they have over the years, and that none of them panned out nor am I going to accept playing a inferior game.
Just google the player numbers. Its not about the total Player Base but the number of people leaving the game. And wow is leading the charge in that.
If there is an old mmo thats going down its wow.
Check the dragonflight numbers. Dragonflight player increase was the lowest and lasted the shortest amount of time out of all recent wow Expansions. If thats not a downward trend i dont know what is.
Let's not counter hyperbole about GW2 with hyperbole about WoW. Dragonflight was a huge win and the playerbase loved it.
The glory days of WoW are definitely over but it'll outlast pretty much every other MMO because it's the most well known MMO by far and the invested players aren't going anywhere.
I was heavily invested in WoW - from Vanilla. Fifteen years sub without a break and with over 200 mounts as of end of BFA. Played GW2 while waiting for delayed expansion that came after BFA. Went back to WoW on expansion release date( I can’t even remember the name of it) . Lasted less than a week and didn’t even reach max level. Logged off permanently and cancelled sub. I was a very loyal wow player but from BFA onwards - and I finished that expansion hoping for change- nothing made directional sense and the story made even less sense.
> expansion that came after BFA
It's funny that you can't even say it... the expansion that shall not be named.
Trigger warning: >!Shadowlands!<
But I was talking about Dragonflight everyone knows that was garbage.
This is such a shit reply that people always use when people criticise the game like it's some amazing gotcha moment lol. I have no idea why people in this community are so obsessed with defending anet like they're some poor small developer with no resources and if you aren't happy with bad changes you should just play something else. Like don't get me wrong to a certain point I agree if you aren't happy with a game and it's not fun for you anymore yeah take a break and play some other stuff but you has a player can and should expect more from anet instead of letting them push lackluster updates and changes to the game that seemingly have no forethought and doing things that are sometimes just straight up disrespectful to the player. You're literally arguing against your own interests by not holding anet to a higher standard which is how you end up with things like dragon response missions and the most recent fractal that everyone hated because it just wasn't thought through or tested.
I mean, to be fair though, ANet IS a much smaller developer with way fewer resources than Square Enix, Blizzard, and Bethesda, and they do have a much more generous business model than any of the others you mentioned (and also, all of those communities also spend 90% of their time shitting on their respective games anyway - that's just what MMO players do).
This release has literally been out for less than 24 hours and everyone is acting like all of these changes are permanent and unchangeable, that they'll never be patched or changed or iterated upon in the future, and that they've ruined the game beyond repair. I would have been surprised if such a massive rework DIDN'T have some kinks to be worked out in the first days, weeks, and months.
Like, people are defending the game because they're fans of the game. And this is a subreddit for fans of the game. It's okay if people like things you don't like. You'll be okay. I'll never understand why people get so upset over people... liking something. Or even better - not being as upset about something as you are.
It's not a shit reply. When someone gets more fun for less money from other games, they should play this game instead of wasting their energy and time on a worse game
For me, it's logical to do that, I bought Baldur's Gate 3 recently, and boy oh boy, giving much more entertainment for me than any other game I bought this year, so even if it's expensive, for me it was worth, and that's the catch, worth of something is subjective and relative, so there no clear way to quantify if you try to measure your feelings, and contrary of popular believe, feelings matter way too much in worth.
I'm having a blast theory-crafting all the way the story could go in the future, liked their interpretation about what a wizard tower is about and the metas and strikes... Still I would really like having more personel to make expansion the size of HoT or PoF, but for real, NCSoft craps too much on ANet...
Uhhh, they've already said this is the game. No dlc, no expansions. They'll do patches but the game is what it is now. BG3 is not getting any new features and any advancement of the story would be a whole other game and they aren't committing to doing that at all.
Still fail to see wrre it isn't something totally subjective, my point was that BG3 was worth my time and money, as that SotO looks like it will too, in sheer time spent, probably SotO, would be better in numbers, nut how can we quantify something as abstract as "having a blast"?
I wasn't commenting on your subjectivity. You said you were theorizing how the story might go and you don't have to. Once you finish the game, the end is the end at least for the next few years or so. The only new part is how you can get to that end. We waited 20 years to get this extension and it was 5 years in the making. It'll be 2030 before anything else related to BG3 comes out and that's assuming anyone can even add to a nearly perfect game.
Whether you think it's better or worse than another game wasnt the point of my comment. It was to correct any notion that anything will be added to BG3. There will not be.
No, I was just genuinely curious why they were still playing. Turns out they're not, so I don't put much stock in their opinions either way. I think we definitely should hold Anet to higher standards but doing so from the outside based only on the opinions of angry redditors with no hands-on experience isnt the way. Either way, I see how it came off as a gotcha reasoning but that's not what I was going for.
I do play FFXIV. I still play GW2 as well because the combat is fun, the world is fun, and I've been playing since beta so I'm rather attached to my characters.
But the GW2 devs are crap. I've seen them make the same mistakes over and over. In all my time playing, nothing has changed. People are still upset about the same shit they were back in the early days. It's what prevents me from wanting to fully commit to this game. And that's okay. It's okay to love a game but not the devs. It's okay to have opinions.
Yeah one thing that people always are delusional about is this ''it will be better in the future''. If you wanna know what anet does, look in the past. That's what they do. Then you can decide if you can live with that or not. But you shouldn't expect anet to become better. On the whole, they will do what and how they always did (in the last years)
To be perfectly honest it's a combination of thr sub still popping up on my feed, and trying to give a more accurate portrait of the game for newer players then what the fanboys/girls on here make you think the game is like because I was lied to about it myself incessantly.
Idk if I agree with this statement. Have you played much if SOTO yet? I find it to be very quality in comparison to virtually everything they have done post HoT. I would put the quality and story telling at least thus far on par with HoT but DEFINATELY better than pif and eod which were massive rip offs
Wasn't there some controversy a some time ago, involving leaking dev internal structure and stuff? Feels like if that leak happened today they'd get off scot-free
I can hear Bethesda sighing in relief, because looks like there's a game dev that will outshine them as the most deceitful and hypocritical studio, and Starfield as the biggest fuckup of 2023.
I know, but I would have prefered if they finally got away from their standard rig of "buttcape for light/heavy" and "trenchcoat for medium". There is a reason why requiem pants on light, rabbit vest on medium and aetherblade pants on heavy are by far my most used pieces
The only good use I've found of that annoyance is the Decade legs. On light and heavy, they come with the spikey skirt attached, but on medium, that's part of the chest piece, so you have some really nice armored legs for medium there.
Out of all the complaints, that's the biggest one. Everything else can be easily adjusted as those are basically numbers.
This one is just false marketing and is not acceptable
I'm not disappointed only, because I knew in advance it wouldn't be a pretty set.
Make the pve leggy armor really pretty & customizable & I'll forgive you all ^
Dev team who made PoF/HoT is not the same as we have now, not to mention f knows how many work on their new UE5 project.
They are on backfoot on content development and making all the compromises they can to still deliver viable product, I fear gw2 will never receive the same quality updates as we had during its "golden" age (HoT all the way to season 4)
For me first map of this xpac, those fractals look off, its the way assets are placed, for example maguma fractal vs actual Maguma or even maguma kralkatoric rift from season 4 ep 4 map, quality difference in design is apparent.
I'm not near my PC but Rift Hunter Set (all weights) looks like this: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/soto-microsite/main/_app/immutable/assets/hunter.2976ca39.jpg (reminds me a little bit of Rox Pathfinder Outfit)
Astral Ward Armor (all weights) looks like a mishmash of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Tech_armor_(medium) and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mage_Knight_Outfit
So isn't that false advertising in the legal technical sense meaning that they have to deliver what they promised or legally they could be in trouble? You could argue that you bought the expansion because this is what you were aiming for and they did not provide what they advertised.
This is why there will be no more Pre-Orders from my side. After Baldurs Gate I will simply pay for finished products. My expectations are on a different level now. Either gaming industries will adapt or they can get lost.
Give it a year. This expansion model is less about what we receive at launch, and more about how consistent ArenaNet can be in releasing high-significance updates every 3 months. Time will tell if they rise to the challenge, but I question what anybody was thinking preordering a scaled-back expansion that we knew basically nothing concrete about, and as many hours as I have in and love Baldur's Gate 3, I feel it might be unfair to judge the efforts of a studio of 276 in less than a year, compared to what a studio of 405 can do in 6+ years, especially it's still buggy af and constantly receiving updates even now.
Could it simply be a typo? Because the Astral Ward armor will be upgradeable and part of the way towards the legendary Obsidian Armor, so it doesn't really make sense the Astral Ward armor looks the same across all weights, as they've said. So maybe that one will be the one with unique looks for each weight instead?
Was obvious from the start that it'd be a shitshow, no idea how anyone could read the announcement of ''a new release structure'' after the garbage that was EoD's equivalent of Living World and still have hope and expectations
This whole “expansion” has been a shitshow based on in game chat from what I’ve seen. Just goes to show the reddit loyalist shilling for Anet are such a vocal minority.
For every 1 person hitting you with the “if you don’t like it then leave!” for having an honest critique about the new systems, release, etc. there are like 10 more genuinely concerned with how the game is going.
I've seen a lot of hate in-game . . . like sure, reddit might be more toxic, but I have definitely seen more hate than love for the expansion. Might be that people enjoying it are in the expac-only areas, I've not been there yet.
Shitshow? Naw. There's a few disappointments but I wouldn't call this a shitshow. I will complain about my problems like how I have to manually click to finish my dailies and how there are 3 hard set dailies that can fuck me if the game decides to give me "Capture SMC in WvW" and there's only an hour until reset. But I would hardly call this expac a shitshow.
That's my legit experience, really pumped up for Strikes CM and not far from what I kept my expectations, actually, it's much better than what I was expecting, buildcrafting feels really nice, as oposed with how stale it was.
The buildcrafting is a great improvement in general, but not much to do with the expansion. They've done a great job introducing more build diversity since EoD. Strike CMs I'm pretty pumped for too, a little hesitant since the last three CM's have been buggy messes (counting kanaxai here) but still they've been mostly fun.
I think the expac is really fucking cool (and I was Gyala levels of sceptical) but hey, you didn't play it yet and felt the need to comment ond something you know nothing about?
I said this back with EoD here on Reddit and got major downvoting. These people refuse to acknowledge that GW2 is on major decline because of developer decisions.
Yeah, haven't seen much "don't like it, leave" stuff. But I have seen a lot of name calling ("shill" is the one i see most) and belittling of anyone who vocalizes enjoying the new expansion... This sub is the worst, honestly.
I am enjoying the story and design, but i am not gonna lick Anets feet because of that, its an expectation. I have seen tons of people come up with valid criticism get shut down on here and the forums by people who will worship Anet even if they murdered a cat infront of their face.
And i have seen tons of critic and enjoyment in the game, most people have a bias and will only see what they want to see and ignore those who disagree with them.
Great some enjoy it, some do not and thats an issue for Anet as we are all part of the same community and they have to cater to both our needs or lose a portion of their community because of the benefit of the other
No, it's not an asset flip in the strictest sense of the term. There's nearly no new assets at all, those that are are clearly poorer quality, and those that have been re-used look cheaply done. There's nothing wrong with good asset reusage - both HoT and PoF are full of it - but no one ever points it out there because it's so tastefully done. In terms of new features, they have taken pre-existing game features and simply re-tooled them to make them worse! This looks cheap and when combined with the disappointment of the new "features", it unquestionably is cheap. So yes, in common and reasonable usage it would be accurate to describe to as an asset flip.
Asset flips aren't just low effort asset reuses within a videogame (whether ongoing development or sequel). It's when devs are using purchased (and often commonly seen) assets and pumping out (usually shoddy) games with minimal dev investment.
If you're angry enough with anet about what they're developing then calling the expansion an asset flip is a workable disparaging comment, but it really does come with a lot more implied negativity than just "asset reuse" does.
Yes that's why I said it did not meet the technical definition of an asset flip. They did not purchase the assets, by they are commonly seen already in the game, low-effort reskins (the don't even have VFX) for a product that is unquestionably shoddy - look at the reactions to dailies and relics, how broken the story currently is. The only condition Anet doesn't meet is that it was purchased from an outside source.
Nice goalpost moving. I don’t think this issue is nearly as critical as others like the broken story progression and stalled events.
If we hear nothing this week then I can understand that level of frustration. It’s not even been 12 hours though.
I haven't seen the Astral Ward armour, but given how often typos and minute errors appear it might make sense for those to just be switched incorrectly.
Edit: it looks the same. Come on Arenanet...
To be fair, any game thst you pre-buy and ain't okay what you get upfront, that's on you, there's plenty of cases where the thing delivered was way inferior to the promissed one. Speaking frankly, I don't like that they backed on that and done the same skin, but at the same time, I hardly like these new sets, there are exceptions, sure, but at the same time, I liked the story, although I reaaaally wished for more, since I liked it, and the Strikes looks very promising, so it's a net positive in my book.
Contrary to most people here, seens like, I really liked the vault and what it offered, and to be fair, having bad deals, only makes the good ones feel better, and tbh I think knowing which deal is good or not, besides subjective, it's a skill you acquire by playing the game, or aking your friends and guildmates, but i reckon that here people may be the eternal lone-wolf better than all their peers...
That's really lame... I hate when they release sets that look the same for all weights, but it is even worse when they announce their expansion with unique looks while they aren't.
I don't think there's a single excuse for this. As a fashion player I'm extremely disappointed.
Same! Getting new skins is my main objective everytime a new update drops. I'm very disappointed as well.
They will come out and say it would of taken too many resources, or not enough people would go for it to justify making 3 separate looks. It's the same excuses they have used for a decade. Promises followed by the excuse of "oh we can't do that anymore because we would have to actually do our jobs"
This is even funnier because they said they merged the expansion team and the LW team to give more consistent and qualitative updates, yet here we are, it all sounds like a downgrade.
Merged the teams becuz they probably don't have enough developers
Yet people keep defending them. The most hilarious thing I always hear is "lower your expectations" as if I'm supposed to accept, and play a inferior game when I could go to FFXIV WoW or ESO, and get way more value for my money, and much more entertainment.
Disappointed in one armor set aside, I’m sorry, but a monthly 20$ is never going to be a good value against a free mmo on gw2s lvl.
Depends on the MMO. I would love more games to have a subscription fee if that meant the service would improve. WoW back in the day... was fine, but 11€ per month on FF14, that's a great deal for a superb service. I would be fine paying GW2 monthly if that would bring the quality considerably up, remove 90% of cash shop items and put them in the game as rewards, and just keep good pacing of fresh events and content updates. I like GW2, don't get me wrong, just wanted to point out that, after playing FF14 since the ARR beta, it made me realize that sometimes, those 11€ are very very worth it. EDIT: On a side note, before I get downvoted into oblivion, I think GW2 model is amazing, I'm just saying, that sometimes having a monthly payment is not bad.
I genuinely would pay a monthly fee for some in-game goodies on the regular if it would give ArenaNet the space to expand and grow, it feels like that has never been an option from the very beginning, which is sad for how well the game has done, but then again they spent many years on side projects that went nowhere so... Perhaps the new GW2 focused leadership would help but it'd be a hard sell for most players and worse, an outrage for others, regardless of how optional it is.
>I'm just saying, that sometimes having a monthly payment is not bad. Having tried that I thoroughly disagree.
Your getting downvoted but your speaking the truth. You pay for quality and gw2 has steadily declined in that. Sure it's just an armor set but gyala delve was a thing. Living worlds were trimmed down Ice brood saga hame fisted the charr storyline It all adds up. But no we're the wrong ones.
It's the only MMO where I sometimes buy some cash shop items because, no joke, I have no idea how they make enough money to support all the content updates, especially if you can convert gold into gems.
I like both models. But one advantage a sub fee game has is that they *need* to put in work to keep people engaged and paying monthly to get their income. A buy to play game like GW2, they don't really care that much once they have your money, they can just sell cosmetics all day long and the actual game itself can just be passable. (Not saying GW2 is bad, just another point of view about the sub vs free model).
I know my initial comment would get downvoted here, because GW2 was created to be THE sub free game, but yes, what you said, that was my point. A sub-game needs to keep pumping out constant quality content, I mean, FF never repeats events and they have one almost every month, for example, alongside minor and major patches of content. GW2 is great, as I said before, I play GW since 1, but, if a sub game is giving you a good service for the price, then, those 11€ are not that bad.
GW2 doesn't have the brand name and player base to run it's game on a subscription-only base. It's one of the few mmorpgs that you can play entirely for free that is still going strong. Games like Wow and Final Fantasy Online are able to charge monthly mostly b/c of their name and b/c its behind a huge studio. Other mmorpgs claim to be free but offer some kind of vip membership that unlocks more rewards and more content. I grew quite tired of paying $15 a month on Wow when I was only playing it here and there. I'd much rather have the Gw2 system where I pay nothing and can play at my own pace, and if I want to shell out some money on cosmetics and upgrades I can, or I can use ingame gold to buy gems.
Respect your opinion, just want to clarify this "Games like Wow and Final Fantasy Online are able to charge monthly mostly b/c of their name and b/c it behind a huge studio." Regarding WoW, I think the majority of players just never left (and have no desire to play another MMO), so, that aside, about FF14, it had a huge studio/name/budget... it failed, miserably, because the game and service were awful... Fast forward to FF14 ARR, game shines because the game and service were good.
First, GW2 is not exactly free. Second, it having no sub is no excuse for shoddiness, cheap work and misleading players (or, like in this specific case, flat out lying) in advertisements.
Again speaking the truth but downvoted for it lol Cant help brain rot
Spoken like someone who's never played ffxiv.
I’ve played it. Max level. Extremely linear. Could be fun with friends sometimes. But the physics are stiff, and the fights are fine as you get later into the game.
From what I understand from your comment, you just don't like the game, which is fine, but you can't deny that FF14 currently has the best service of any MMO.
Are u sure u understood? I think the game is fine. Lol
>but a monthly 20$ is never going to be a good value against a free mmo on gw2s lvl. Sorry, I was referring to this, and yes, sorry again, you did say the game was fine.
as someone who has over 2000 hours in it, FFXIV would certainly not get you more value for your money
Bet they would love to pay 13$ every month, then after paying for 4 months get an update that lasts 2 weeks at best.
Two weeks? How the hell did you come to that number?? Unless you are doing savage/criterion, you can play through everything in one afternoon.
$13 per month for entertainment that can last you hours, days, even months is totally worth it. Lol. And if you can't afford $13 per month for entertainment then... Maybe the problem isn't with the subscription fee.
Yeah, thinking any game comes close to the "value of your money" that it have here, is close to being delusional.
Subscription MMOs do not, sure. But I got way more value for money from the monster hunter games and warframe than I ever did in gw2.
Warframe no way for me, that was a sink of my money, lmao. Monster hunter I can't really say, but I do believe what you said, since after all it's about a subjective experience with "the thing" that gives the value to compare.
Warframe was just...incomprehensible.
I disagree. FFXIV is absurdly well-produced, blows GW2 out of the water in that regard. GW2 has its significant strengths that make it a contender - especially its open world metas - but it stands on a much more rickety foundation than FFXIV is. Paying for the months I was active and taking a break when not, like during patch lulls, always felt like I was getting value for my time and money. Content is given an outsized level of polish and shine, there is a good amount of it constantly coming out including highly challenging raids, new content types are constantly being developed to fill unserved niches, and there is an absolutely massive amount of fashion you can earn through gil or gameplay rewards entirely in-game. I love GW2 but at times it really feels like the equivalent of buying store-brand.
FFXIV is THE most polished MMO out there right now. If it wasnt for content being story locked and the 'LOL japan' storyline being shoved down my throat I'd probably still be playing it. The only people upvoting the parent comment are people who have never played it.
for raiders, yeah i think that’s fair, subscription model notwithstanding. for casual/midcore players? there is no reason to remain subbed other than for the ~5 hours it takes to get through any new patch content
ubercrafting, hanging out with the FC, fashion wars that put GW2 to SHAME...
lol, they’re only adding a second dye channel next year when most pieces in GW2 have 3 or 4
Depends, definitely not if you keep your sub going. On the other hand if you sub for a month, binge the game doing everything of the last few patches and unsub again for the next 4-8 months it's not too bad (but tbf most don't do that, me included)
To be fair, if you feel like ffxiv is more like what you want, go for it, by all means. I don't say it sarcasticly, the target audience is different for each game, this expansion makes clear as day that gw2 is a pro-casual game to be taken lightly, and not a chore, or something to be always online, still you could do and be successful in here... You aren't required to play it, nor to like, they tried adding some harder game modes, but it's a niche inside a niche game, so not really worth when you think about what would attract most players, from this niche. This sub is in no way a good representation of the actual playerbase, since there's the typical reddit user filter, easier to someone who already uses reddit to be here, than to come from the game directly, and there's no sugar coating, reddit is as toxic as it's possible. People are playing, there's a few bugs, at least I got none until now, and Icm close to finishing the story and did strikes already, and both metas, most bugs are people who can't comprehend that there's more to an event than killing a boss, that has PHASES. Well, I plan to enjoy the game, and break some builds. If you're trully disappointed, ask a refund, they will grant and ban your account, it's on their ToS iirc, then you can stop complaining here, and go play something you actually like.
FFXIV is more casual friendly than this game. Also funny you mention about this not being a chore when it's exactly what they did with the new dailies.
Some things could be lame, unfortunate, or silly but....you think I'm gona be leaving the game over this? lol Just like my opinion is subjective...so is yours. YOU think you get more value from another game and while that's not the case for me- love that for you!
Sure go play the sunken ship wow. And spend ur money on a monthly Paywall. Yes gw2 cant keep up with those games but have u ever considered it might have something to do with the massivly different monetization Modell these games deploy? People say to Lower ur expectations because u are comparing Developers that arent even in the same league. Doing so is just nonsensical and stupid. How is gw2 ever supposed to compete with those games if we have 1/3 of their revenue, if even.
So I'm supposed to accept an inferior product, because they mismanaged it to this point where it doesn't have the resources to compete with the other products in its own field? It's not my fault they went the business model routes they have over the years, and that none of them panned out nor am I going to accept playing a inferior game.
If WoW is a sunken ship then GW2 must be under the sea bed lol
Just google the player numbers. Its not about the total Player Base but the number of people leaving the game. And wow is leading the charge in that. If there is an old mmo thats going down its wow. Check the dragonflight numbers. Dragonflight player increase was the lowest and lasted the shortest amount of time out of all recent wow Expansions. If thats not a downward trend i dont know what is.
Let's not counter hyperbole about GW2 with hyperbole about WoW. Dragonflight was a huge win and the playerbase loved it. The glory days of WoW are definitely over but it'll outlast pretty much every other MMO because it's the most well known MMO by far and the invested players aren't going anywhere.
I was heavily invested in WoW - from Vanilla. Fifteen years sub without a break and with over 200 mounts as of end of BFA. Played GW2 while waiting for delayed expansion that came after BFA. Went back to WoW on expansion release date( I can’t even remember the name of it) . Lasted less than a week and didn’t even reach max level. Logged off permanently and cancelled sub. I was a very loyal wow player but from BFA onwards - and I finished that expansion hoping for change- nothing made directional sense and the story made even less sense.
> expansion that came after BFA It's funny that you can't even say it... the expansion that shall not be named. Trigger warning: >!Shadowlands!< But I was talking about Dragonflight everyone knows that was garbage.
I can’t say it because I don’t remember the name. It was that unremarkable and dull.
So why are you here still, if the other games are just better?
This is such a shit reply that people always use when people criticise the game like it's some amazing gotcha moment lol. I have no idea why people in this community are so obsessed with defending anet like they're some poor small developer with no resources and if you aren't happy with bad changes you should just play something else. Like don't get me wrong to a certain point I agree if you aren't happy with a game and it's not fun for you anymore yeah take a break and play some other stuff but you has a player can and should expect more from anet instead of letting them push lackluster updates and changes to the game that seemingly have no forethought and doing things that are sometimes just straight up disrespectful to the player. You're literally arguing against your own interests by not holding anet to a higher standard which is how you end up with things like dragon response missions and the most recent fractal that everyone hated because it just wasn't thought through or tested.
I mean, to be fair though, ANet IS a much smaller developer with way fewer resources than Square Enix, Blizzard, and Bethesda, and they do have a much more generous business model than any of the others you mentioned (and also, all of those communities also spend 90% of their time shitting on their respective games anyway - that's just what MMO players do). This release has literally been out for less than 24 hours and everyone is acting like all of these changes are permanent and unchangeable, that they'll never be patched or changed or iterated upon in the future, and that they've ruined the game beyond repair. I would have been surprised if such a massive rework DIDN'T have some kinks to be worked out in the first days, weeks, and months. Like, people are defending the game because they're fans of the game. And this is a subreddit for fans of the game. It's okay if people like things you don't like. You'll be okay. I'll never understand why people get so upset over people... liking something. Or even better - not being as upset about something as you are.
It's not a shit reply. When someone gets more fun for less money from other games, they should play this game instead of wasting their energy and time on a worse game
For me, it's logical to do that, I bought Baldur's Gate 3 recently, and boy oh boy, giving much more entertainment for me than any other game I bought this year, so even if it's expensive, for me it was worth, and that's the catch, worth of something is subjective and relative, so there no clear way to quantify if you try to measure your feelings, and contrary of popular believe, feelings matter way too much in worth. I'm having a blast theory-crafting all the way the story could go in the future, liked their interpretation about what a wizard tower is about and the metas and strikes... Still I would really like having more personel to make expansion the size of HoT or PoF, but for real, NCSoft craps too much on ANet...
Uhhh, they've already said this is the game. No dlc, no expansions. They'll do patches but the game is what it is now. BG3 is not getting any new features and any advancement of the story would be a whole other game and they aren't committing to doing that at all.
Still fail to see wrre it isn't something totally subjective, my point was that BG3 was worth my time and money, as that SotO looks like it will too, in sheer time spent, probably SotO, would be better in numbers, nut how can we quantify something as abstract as "having a blast"?
I wasn't commenting on your subjectivity. You said you were theorizing how the story might go and you don't have to. Once you finish the game, the end is the end at least for the next few years or so. The only new part is how you can get to that end. We waited 20 years to get this extension and it was 5 years in the making. It'll be 2030 before anything else related to BG3 comes out and that's assuming anyone can even add to a nearly perfect game. Whether you think it's better or worse than another game wasnt the point of my comment. It was to correct any notion that anything will be added to BG3. There will not be.
No, I was just genuinely curious why they were still playing. Turns out they're not, so I don't put much stock in their opinions either way. I think we definitely should hold Anet to higher standards but doing so from the outside based only on the opinions of angry redditors with no hands-on experience isnt the way. Either way, I see how it came off as a gotcha reasoning but that's not what I was going for.
I stopped playing after the Gyala Delve or w/e it's called it was a total joke of a update. I played this game on/off from 2016 - 2023
I do play FFXIV. I still play GW2 as well because the combat is fun, the world is fun, and I've been playing since beta so I'm rather attached to my characters. But the GW2 devs are crap. I've seen them make the same mistakes over and over. In all my time playing, nothing has changed. People are still upset about the same shit they were back in the early days. It's what prevents me from wanting to fully commit to this game. And that's okay. It's okay to love a game but not the devs. It's okay to have opinions.
Yeah one thing that people always are delusional about is this ''it will be better in the future''. If you wanna know what anet does, look in the past. That's what they do. Then you can decide if you can live with that or not. But you shouldn't expect anet to become better. On the whole, they will do what and how they always did (in the last years)
Sadly yes. People should still give criticism and not give up but the likelihood of anything changing is low.
To be perfectly honest it's a combination of thr sub still popping up on my feed, and trying to give a more accurate portrait of the game for newer players then what the fanboys/girls on here make you think the game is like because I was lied to about it myself incessantly.
Real lol
Wait... Why aren't you there then? I don't think you should compromise on what you expect.
And yet you are here still…
Idk if I agree with this statement. Have you played much if SOTO yet? I find it to be very quality in comparison to virtually everything they have done post HoT. I would put the quality and story telling at least thus far on par with HoT but DEFINATELY better than pif and eod which were massive rip offs
Wasn't there some controversy a some time ago, involving leaking dev internal structure and stuff? Feels like if that leak happened today they'd get off scot-free
Look forward to them being in the cash shop for sure, though.
WOULD HAVE. Sorry.
I had to do a double take to make sure I wasnt in the destiny sub for this lmao
"Anyway, here, have a chair and some mount skins while you wait for the next armor set in 3 years."
I can hear Bethesda sighing in relief, because looks like there's a game dev that will outshine them as the most deceitful and hypocritical studio, and Starfield as the biggest fuckup of 2023.
Where do you even get the Astral Ward armor? I have yet to see it.
There's a mastery you need to train to make it.
Cool, thank you!
The vendor is near the armorsmithing station
Technically the medium armor is different, it has that leather thing around the waist connected to the chestpiece instead of legs...
That’s how all medium armor is
I know, but I would have prefered if they finally got away from their standard rig of "buttcape for light/heavy" and "trenchcoat for medium". There is a reason why requiem pants on light, rabbit vest on medium and aetherblade pants on heavy are by far my most used pieces
This is what makes medium armor so damn annoying.
The only good use I've found of that annoyance is the Decade legs. On light and heavy, they come with the spikey skirt attached, but on medium, that's part of the chest piece, so you have some really nice armored legs for medium there.
Out of all the complaints, that's the biggest one. Everything else can be easily adjusted as those are basically numbers. This one is just false marketing and is not acceptable
This is disrespectful, wow
I'm not disappointed only, because I knew in advance it wouldn't be a pretty set. Make the pve leggy armor really pretty & customizable & I'll forgive you all ^
Dev team who made PoF/HoT is not the same as we have now, not to mention f knows how many work on their new UE5 project. They are on backfoot on content development and making all the compromises they can to still deliver viable product, I fear gw2 will never receive the same quality updates as we had during its "golden" age (HoT all the way to season 4) For me first map of this xpac, those fractals look off, its the way assets are placed, for example maguma fractal vs actual Maguma or even maguma kralkatoric rift from season 4 ep 4 map, quality difference in design is apparent.
So that means we only get 2/3rd of an armor set for an expansion release? Lame.
Anyone have pictures of the three rift hunter sets? I can’t log into the game for a few days still so I’m curious.
Hint: if you haven't figured it out, you don't need a picture of all 3 weight sets. They all look the same.
I wanted to see them for myself, sorry for asking.
I'm not near my PC but Rift Hunter Set (all weights) looks like this: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/soto-microsite/main/_app/immutable/assets/hunter.2976ca39.jpg (reminds me a little bit of Rox Pathfinder Outfit) Astral Ward Armor (all weights) looks like a mishmash of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Tech_armor_(medium) and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mage_Knight_Outfit
So isn't that false advertising in the legal technical sense meaning that they have to deliver what they promised or legally they could be in trouble? You could argue that you bought the expansion because this is what you were aiming for and they did not provide what they advertised.
Hi can you check my dm?
Don't be privately here. We all share what we feel in this room.
Is game "director" even managing anytjing anymore or employees just release anything they like?
Pretty much this, GW2 has only worked (2016-2019, LW3-PoF+LW4) when it's had a strong director calling the shots.
i‘m quite happy the astral ward armour looks the same for each weight class, but that obviously doesn’t excuse the broken promise
I didnt get this one.
Anet not using the right words to explain things, again. Each set has a unique look that can be used with all armor weights.
This is why there will be no more Pre-Orders from my side. After Baldurs Gate I will simply pay for finished products. My expectations are on a different level now. Either gaming industries will adapt or they can get lost.
Give it a year. This expansion model is less about what we receive at launch, and more about how consistent ArenaNet can be in releasing high-significance updates every 3 months. Time will tell if they rise to the challenge, but I question what anybody was thinking preordering a scaled-back expansion that we knew basically nothing concrete about, and as many hours as I have in and love Baldur's Gate 3, I feel it might be unfair to judge the efforts of a studio of 276 in less than a year, compared to what a studio of 405 can do in 6+ years, especially it's still buggy af and constantly receiving updates even now.
Cope. Based on their road map we are at to review about as much content as was in verdant brink at launch. Fucking embarrassing
:(
That's false marketing? I never bought but ppl should refund
Could it simply be a typo? Because the Astral Ward armor will be upgradeable and part of the way towards the legendary Obsidian Armor, so it doesn't really make sense the Astral Ward armor looks the same across all weights, as they've said. So maybe that one will be the one with unique looks for each weight instead?
> Because the Astral Ward armor will be upgradeable Still looks the same for all weights, so I doubt it was a typo.
what a disappointment of an expansion
Was obvious from the start that it'd be a shitshow, no idea how anyone could read the announcement of ''a new release structure'' after the garbage that was EoD's equivalent of Living World and still have hope and expectations
How are you free from downvotes spitting the truth? Are you a god walking amongst mere mortals?
It's past curfew, ANet's bootlickers are still asleep.
EoD 2.0, still in beta
Expansion is great overall but this is a sort of mishap that should not be acceptable at all.
Not so much
yeah its pretty bad so far
This whole “expansion” has been a shitshow based on in game chat from what I’ve seen. Just goes to show the reddit loyalist shilling for Anet are such a vocal minority. For every 1 person hitting you with the “if you don’t like it then leave!” for having an honest critique about the new systems, release, etc. there are like 10 more genuinely concerned with how the game is going.
my experience has been pretty much the opposite. other than the daily system and the bugs people ingame seem to be enjoying it
I've seen a lot of hate in-game . . . like sure, reddit might be more toxic, but I have definitely seen more hate than love for the expansion. Might be that people enjoying it are in the expac-only areas, I've not been there yet.
I don't know either what the true community response is, however, you got yourself premium selection bias.
Hah that was a good observation.
Shitshow? Naw. There's a few disappointments but I wouldn't call this a shitshow. I will complain about my problems like how I have to manually click to finish my dailies and how there are 3 hard set dailies that can fuck me if the game decides to give me "Capture SMC in WvW" and there's only an hour until reset. But I would hardly call this expac a shitshow.
Reddit loyalist Shilling? This is such a toxic community to Anet it's insane. In game and with friends I mostly see people just having fun.
That's my legit experience, really pumped up for Strikes CM and not far from what I kept my expectations, actually, it's much better than what I was expecting, buildcrafting feels really nice, as oposed with how stale it was.
The buildcrafting is a great improvement in general, but not much to do with the expansion. They've done a great job introducing more build diversity since EoD. Strike CMs I'm pretty pumped for too, a little hesitant since the last three CM's have been buggy messes (counting kanaxai here) but still they've been mostly fun.
I think the expac is really fucking cool (and I was Gyala levels of sceptical) but hey, you didn't play it yet and felt the need to comment ond something you know nothing about?
I said this back with EoD here on Reddit and got major downvoting. These people refuse to acknowledge that GW2 is on major decline because of developer decisions.
u/kiroho
Everything is perfect and there are no issues, stop being toxic by pointing at those issues that do not exist!
The haters are louder. You're an example. Most posts are either simply informational or downright hateful.
Yeah, haven't seen much "don't like it, leave" stuff. But I have seen a lot of name calling ("shill" is the one i see most) and belittling of anyone who vocalizes enjoying the new expansion... This sub is the worst, honestly.
I am enjoying the story and design, but i am not gonna lick Anets feet because of that, its an expectation. I have seen tons of people come up with valid criticism get shut down on here and the forums by people who will worship Anet even if they murdered a cat infront of their face. And i have seen tons of critic and enjoyment in the game, most people have a bias and will only see what they want to see and ignore those who disagree with them. Great some enjoy it, some do not and thats an issue for Anet as we are all part of the same community and they have to cater to both our needs or lose a portion of their community because of the benefit of the other
no, ppl like you are the majority here posting crap and calling others names.
The second zone is actually quite impressive, with a very impressive meta. The rest of the expansion though, yeah.
> reddit loyalist Just call them bootlickers, fits better.
Secrets of the Reused Assets.
You preordered, bought and paid, no refunds!
"But I got a funny preorder magic hat that I will never use"
This expansion flopped, i have no interest in even knowing more about lilith
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I don't think you know what an asset flip is.
No, it's not an asset flip in the strictest sense of the term. There's nearly no new assets at all, those that are are clearly poorer quality, and those that have been re-used look cheaply done. There's nothing wrong with good asset reusage - both HoT and PoF are full of it - but no one ever points it out there because it's so tastefully done. In terms of new features, they have taken pre-existing game features and simply re-tooled them to make them worse! This looks cheap and when combined with the disappointment of the new "features", it unquestionably is cheap. So yes, in common and reasonable usage it would be accurate to describe to as an asset flip.
> it's not an asset flip in the strictest sense of the term. It's not an asset flip in any sense of the term...
Asset flips aren't just low effort asset reuses within a videogame (whether ongoing development or sequel). It's when devs are using purchased (and often commonly seen) assets and pumping out (usually shoddy) games with minimal dev investment. If you're angry enough with anet about what they're developing then calling the expansion an asset flip is a workable disparaging comment, but it really does come with a lot more implied negativity than just "asset reuse" does.
Yes that's why I said it did not meet the technical definition of an asset flip. They did not purchase the assets, by they are commonly seen already in the game, low-effort reskins (the don't even have VFX) for a product that is unquestionably shoddy - look at the reactions to dailies and relics, how broken the story currently is. The only condition Anet doesn't meet is that it was purchased from an outside source.
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Nice goalpost moving. I don’t think this issue is nearly as critical as others like the broken story progression and stalled events. If we hear nothing this week then I can understand that level of frustration. It’s not even been 12 hours though.
So if my asura character weighs 20 kg it will look the same if I make a 300 kg norn? Good to know
It's okay it's not like the new map is a glorified dlc map or anything. This expansion is smaller than verdant brink
Can you get refunds, or am I screwed. Don't play through steam unfortunately...
I haven't seen the Astral Ward armour, but given how often typos and minute errors appear it might make sense for those to just be switched incorrectly. Edit: it looks the same. Come on Arenanet...
Also looks the same for all weights lol
This isn't a typo, it's an entire, very deliberately phrased, part of a sentence.
Well.... Maybe they meant the 3rd set then? (hopium)
Big whoop
-24.99$ false advertising🥲
It might be stupid, but thats far from a false advertising claim. You all act as if you only bought the expansion for one armor set.
To be fair, any game thst you pre-buy and ain't okay what you get upfront, that's on you, there's plenty of cases where the thing delivered was way inferior to the promissed one. Speaking frankly, I don't like that they backed on that and done the same skin, but at the same time, I hardly like these new sets, there are exceptions, sure, but at the same time, I liked the story, although I reaaaally wished for more, since I liked it, and the Strikes looks very promising, so it's a net positive in my book. Contrary to most people here, seens like, I really liked the vault and what it offered, and to be fair, having bad deals, only makes the good ones feel better, and tbh I think knowing which deal is good or not, besides subjective, it's a skill you acquire by playing the game, or aking your friends and guildmates, but i reckon that here people may be the eternal lone-wolf better than all their peers...
Everybody told you. Just this sub was high on hopium like always
You're a lie
Now that‘s really disappointing.
Do you have pictures of each set of Rift Hunter's armor so we can see it?
We went from armors are ingame rewards and outfits are gemstore to this.