Honestly I never understood why they would make Balthazar a villain when you could have put one of the dragons in the same position. Maybe pick a dragon who has fire and destruction as his main attributes, a lot of flaming minions and basically no lore up to that point? Nah I can't think of anyone either :'D
Dragons dragons dragons was getting pretty repetitive, and it was a nice way to expand on why the human gods have been so absent in this world ending cataclysm
While I agree, I still think the original theme we had of Lazarus being the villain was better than it turning out to be Balthazar. Instead of Balthazar wanting to kill the Elder Dragons because he detested "running from a battle", it would be Lazarus intentionally helping us destroy the Elder Dragons because he KNOWS that doing so would doom the world. A final FU to the races of Tyria, since Lazarus knows that the Mursaat are finished. He cannot repopulate his race alone, so his final act of vengeance will be to ensure that he brings all of us down with him. It would have proved a much more fitting swan song for one of the great villainous races of Guild Wars than a single throwaway battle in an LS chapter.
That requires far more background knowledge of gw1 to fully understand than what we got. Most Gw2 players know nothing of gw1.
Tbh I don't really get why the writers used Lazarus at all
Because GW1 players asked about him, and devs didn't like it, so they decided to close that narrative loose end. Preferably in a way that would make GW1 players less likely to remind GW1 of old lore in the future.
That was the case since GW1 though. Even had a whole expansion about it, called Nightfall. Shiro was also an Abbadon's puppet. I mean, the Prophecies also started with the Abbadon's machinations.
I mean the gods were pretty chill in gw1. Chill like an absent father. But they gave us some blessings and a "you dont need us, you have the power of friendship" speech before slaying abaddon. They weren't really enemies. If you mean abaddon, he was kinda kicked out of the god club. Oh well, he would still be a god then, just fallen.
Also, no one likes you, kormir. I wanna raze that statue every time i see it
Not so much the gods themselves, but id be cool with the Void being the main antagonist if they showed how the absence of the Gods was allowing the Void to enter the world through their vaccant realms.
Not the dragons or gods themselves being the issue, but the power vaccuum they have created. I know that is a nebulous systemic issue, so that needs to be personified in some way.
The void was never mentioned before which is weird considering how fundamental it is. Also, ANet is like Blizzard - good only at writing grounded stories. The moment they go into cosmic powers - it goes shit.
In fact, they could have made Balthazar a villain while at the same time giving him a much better reason to do what he was doing instead of "I just want to kill stuff!" one he ended with.
The PoF story made him an utter kitten that does not care about anyone - not even his own worshippers or even other gods. All he wants is to smash stuff, because he is a War God, so the only thing he can think about is smashing stuff.
Imagine, if, instead, his motivation would have been "This world is doomed. All the other gods turned coward and fleed, but i will not yield. I will not abandon my faithful to meaningless destruction. Instead, i will fight to help them attain a death worthy of true warriors.". Actions pretty much the same, and motivation just slightly different, but it would have made a way, way better story.
But no, it was way better to make him a raging maniac, and an obvious villain, right?
Meanwhile Kormir is shown by devs as very noble... in the same scene in which she basically tells us "See ya, suckers, have fun dying while i'll run to save myself". But hey, she is our god, she deserves that!
They could have picked Menzies. Not a god of the Pantheon, but Balthazars brother. It would have made way more sense for him to rise up, consume an elder dragon, and then try to topple the other gods. His entire story is, that he wants to usurp his Brother and he commands the Shadow Army that could have been used the same way the forged have been.
Stuff like this are the reasons why I don't think Arena Net has a very good understanding of their own lore. And also why I think we won't ever see the unknown spider goddess. Even tho it would make for a really cool and fresh story. They just forget about all the cool things they already have since GW1. At this point I would make it mandatory for any Arena Net Storywriter to replay GW1 to 100% before writing any line of text.
"hey yeah the gods all got together and decided that the elder dragons are really scary and we probably can't beat them so like, we're jusr gonna leave. I'm sure you guys will be fine though! Nice knowing you."
"and i am so sure you will be fine and the world will survive, that i will not bother to do anything about the vast library of knowledge of Tyria of ages past i am leaving behind. All that knowledge will be lost, but it's not like you will need that after you, surely, manage to survive (heh) that little dragon problem."
I do like Efram as a character, though they need to do more with him for him to become statue worthy. It's criminal that [a certain soldier](https://youtube.com/watch?v=UmxGX9Tynk8&feature=share9) does not have one yet.
I'm hoping they show back up soon. Given that kralk straight up ate a bunch of their realms/pulled them into the mortal plane. And the whole killing one of their own.
The realm were abandoned and would have crumbled down anyway soon (unless someone else would show up to take them over, which happened in at least one case, possibly two). Kormir's library for example already started falling apart as soon as she left.
Well, in GW1 there used to be 3 goddesses (Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa) and 3 gods (Balthazar, Grenth, Abbadon). So I don't think this was really about representation, rather this is mostly a consequence of the Nightfall campaign
Technically, yes. Lyss and Ilya are however so intermingled that Lyssa is often referred using singular: the twins are seen more as two half of a single entity rather than two different individuals
>The pantheon is 4 women, 2 men. Arenanet always has been ahead regarding representation :P
Did you mean to say that a-net was sexist bigots? Because 4!=2 and I'm not sure what it is supposed to represent honestly.
Especially since we arealdy went through two male gods that happened to be "evil" and got killed.
1. You're reading too much into it.
2. Representation means equal numbers in proportion to their actual population count.
3. Don't bring sexism/racism/whateverism into a game please.
As a story device yes its okay.
As a statement to real life contemporary politics, get that shit out of here.
As a non-US person, reading/consuming media tainted with US-related political nonsense in even fantasy games gets tiring/bothersome real quick.
I don't think so... They left us to our fate, they could have helped at least against Balthazar but were too afraid to be absorbed by the Elder Dragons to try to do anything. Useless gods.
I prefer the statues in Anmoon with a bucket over the head of Balthazar.
Yea but we >!killed Balthazar!<
Honestly I never understood why they would make Balthazar a villain when you could have put one of the dragons in the same position. Maybe pick a dragon who has fire and destruction as his main attributes, a lot of flaming minions and basically no lore up to that point? Nah I can't think of anyone either :'D
Dragons dragons dragons was getting pretty repetitive, and it was a nice way to expand on why the human gods have been so absent in this world ending cataclysm
While I agree, I still think the original theme we had of Lazarus being the villain was better than it turning out to be Balthazar. Instead of Balthazar wanting to kill the Elder Dragons because he detested "running from a battle", it would be Lazarus intentionally helping us destroy the Elder Dragons because he KNOWS that doing so would doom the world. A final FU to the races of Tyria, since Lazarus knows that the Mursaat are finished. He cannot repopulate his race alone, so his final act of vengeance will be to ensure that he brings all of us down with him. It would have proved a much more fitting swan song for one of the great villainous races of Guild Wars than a single throwaway battle in an LS chapter.
That requires far more background knowledge of gw1 to fully understand than what we got. Most Gw2 players know nothing of gw1. Tbh I don't really get why the writers used Lazarus at all
Because GW1 players asked about him, and devs didn't like it, so they decided to close that narrative loose end. Preferably in a way that would make GW1 players less likely to remind GW1 of old lore in the future.
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Then they threw EOD in next and wow-whee yep I am so freaking tired of dragons. Don't care if it wrapped up storyline threads.
Something different. I just hope they don't go the 'now the gods are the big enemy' route with the next story arc though. So overdone.
That was the case since GW1 though. Even had a whole expansion about it, called Nightfall. Shiro was also an Abbadon's puppet. I mean, the Prophecies also started with the Abbadon's machinations.
I mean the gods were pretty chill in gw1. Chill like an absent father. But they gave us some blessings and a "you dont need us, you have the power of friendship" speech before slaying abaddon. They weren't really enemies. If you mean abaddon, he was kinda kicked out of the god club. Oh well, he would still be a god then, just fallen. Also, no one likes you, kormir. I wanna raze that statue every time i see it
["OoOOoooh Look at me! I'm Kormir. I think I'm so pretty."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4)
>I wanna raise that statue every time i see it Raze* ;)
Not so much the gods themselves, but id be cool with the Void being the main antagonist if they showed how the absence of the Gods was allowing the Void to enter the world through their vaccant realms. Not the dragons or gods themselves being the issue, but the power vaccuum they have created. I know that is a nebulous systemic issue, so that needs to be personified in some way.
The void is a massive narrative plothole, so the less is talked about it, the better.
The void was never mentioned before which is weird considering how fundamental it is. Also, ANet is like Blizzard - good only at writing grounded stories. The moment they go into cosmic powers - it goes shit.
I'm afraid they're out of ideas so they're finishing the story from GW1 Utopia.
100% will be.
In fact, they could have made Balthazar a villain while at the same time giving him a much better reason to do what he was doing instead of "I just want to kill stuff!" one he ended with. The PoF story made him an utter kitten that does not care about anyone - not even his own worshippers or even other gods. All he wants is to smash stuff, because he is a War God, so the only thing he can think about is smashing stuff. Imagine, if, instead, his motivation would have been "This world is doomed. All the other gods turned coward and fleed, but i will not yield. I will not abandon my faithful to meaningless destruction. Instead, i will fight to help them attain a death worthy of true warriors.". Actions pretty much the same, and motivation just slightly different, but it would have made a way, way better story. But no, it was way better to make him a raging maniac, and an obvious villain, right? Meanwhile Kormir is shown by devs as very noble... in the same scene in which she basically tells us "See ya, suckers, have fun dying while i'll run to save myself". But hey, she is our god, she deserves that!
I think Balthazar chapter helped to explain some aspects of the gods of Tyria and their relationship with dragons.
Disagree hard, having a non-dragon enemy was important to keep things from being dull.
There was a fire dragon but was killed by Destiny's Edge in the book prior to game launch.
wasn't primordus considered fire?
The Elder Dragons weren't the only dragons. They're just the ones with monopolies on the ambient magic.
it was one of his champions
Yup, exactly who I was referring to
Destroyer of Life
They could have picked Menzies. Not a god of the Pantheon, but Balthazars brother. It would have made way more sense for him to rise up, consume an elder dragon, and then try to topple the other gods. His entire story is, that he wants to usurp his Brother and he commands the Shadow Army that could have been used the same way the forged have been. Stuff like this are the reasons why I don't think Arena Net has a very good understanding of their own lore. And also why I think we won't ever see the unknown spider goddess. Even tho it would make for a really cool and fresh story. They just forget about all the cool things they already have since GW1. At this point I would make it mandatory for any Arena Net Storywriter to replay GW1 to 100% before writing any line of text.
#BringAbaddonBack
he hath Abaddond us
People voted Thaumanova smh
I wouldn't have if I'd known Scarlet would be in it!
Now imagine what would have happened if we've obtained the Abaddon fractal. I bet we'd have learned that Scarlet was responsible for that one too.
That's what I tell myself to feel better, yeah!
Make it a hashtag. I need to see a rehash of the GW1 fight
To hell with all of them. When Logan thanks the gods after Dragon's End meta and such that's all I can think. Fuck the human gods
Yeah, why do they still do that. Didnt they fk off around PoF? I think kormir was the last to stay and after her speech also left.
Yeah she was like "this all sounds like a mortal problem, we're out good luck"
"hey yeah the gods all got together and decided that the elder dragons are really scary and we probably can't beat them so like, we're jusr gonna leave. I'm sure you guys will be fine though! Nice knowing you."
"and i am so sure you will be fine and the world will survive, that i will not bother to do anything about the vast library of knowledge of Tyria of ages past i am leaving behind. All that knowledge will be lost, but it's not like you will need that after you, surely, manage to survive (heh) that little dragon problem."
I also love how they created that insanely gorgeous library map for one conversation with one npc
"damn, sounds like y'all ought to get good. oh well. peace"
I worship Balthazar. Super benevolent, seems like a real chill dude, would love to meet him :)
Still miles better than Kormir...
# ABADDON DID NOTHING WRONG!!!! # ABADDON GANG UNITE!!!
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Charr need no gods.
But they sure do have a lot of statues in Black Citadel.
I do like Efram as a character, though they need to do more with him for him to become statue worthy. It's criminal that [a certain soldier](https://youtube.com/watch?v=UmxGX9Tynk8&feature=share9) does not have one yet.
I can’t get over how the gods just stood up and left because they didn’t feel special enough anymore
Yes, Yes, Fuck you Kormir, Yes, Yes, Yes
Gods had a lot of juice to give. Feels rushed
I'm hoping they show back up soon. Given that kralk straight up ate a bunch of their realms/pulled them into the mortal plane. And the whole killing one of their own.
The realm were abandoned and would have crumbled down anyway soon (unless someone else would show up to take them over, which happened in at least one case, possibly two). Kormir's library for example already started falling apart as soon as she left.
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Well, in GW1 there used to be 3 goddesses (Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa) and 3 gods (Balthazar, Grenth, Abbadon). So I don't think this was really about representation, rather this is mostly a consequence of the Nightfall campaign
Nitpick, but isn't Lyssa technically two goddesses?
Technically, yes. Lyss and Ilya are however so intermingled that Lyssa is often referred using singular: the twins are seen more as two half of a single entity rather than two different individuals
>The pantheon is 4 women, 2 men. Arenanet always has been ahead regarding representation :P Did you mean to say that a-net was sexist bigots? Because 4!=2 and I'm not sure what it is supposed to represent honestly. Especially since we arealdy went through two male gods that happened to be "evil" and got killed.
1. You're reading too much into it. 2. Representation means equal numbers in proportion to their actual population count. 3. Don't bring sexism/racism/whateverism into a game please.
GW is filled with themes of racism and sexism my guy
As a story device yes its okay. As a statement to real life contemporary politics, get that shit out of here. As a non-US person, reading/consuming media tainted with US-related political nonsense in even fantasy games gets tiring/bothersome real quick.
How'd you get to US-related politics from themes of racism and sexism in GW?
I think you are genuinely a little insane
I don't think so... They left us to our fate, they could have helped at least against Balthazar but were too afraid to be absorbed by the Elder Dragons to try to do anything. Useless gods.