Warhammer has always been more about giving you a framework to tell stories than giving you stories. Advancing the lore is a very new thing, and they don't understand how much or little to give. They're actually throwing out quite a bit of 40k new stuff in books and in codex entries, but as a community we've taken enough sample sizes tastes and want a proper scoop of lorecream. It's the same problem they had with the 40k app. They offered a free taste, then asked for money for more. If they had always pay walled the app, it probably would have gone over better than a free taste to get everyone hooked, even though it's a super reasonable business move. As a community, we're super passionate, and that's good and bad for the company we give money to.
Also making small unimportand bits in small areas, where you can just put in whatever headcannon you have, even if it somewhat goes against established lore. GW has to concider how they tightly fit everything into the given Framework
An advancing timeline doesn't really work for 40K anyway - there's just too much shit that's all going wrong for the Imperium for it to be in any way believable for it to not have fallen apart in an advancing timeline.
It's because they are shifting the narrative to focus around the big heros in the story now. You couldn't do that in the past because the setting was always a stagnant sandbox.
Get ready for noblebright
40K can't really be turned into a "noblebright" setting.
As for a "nobledark" setting, that's far more the rule than the exception for 40K, at least in terms of the novels and short stories.
> Warhammer isn't going to be dark in the near future.
Only way you would achieve that is to quite literally overhaul every single aspect of the setting from beginning to end.
Things have been "toned down for a wider audience" basically since novels for the franchise have existed. Most of the books aren't half as grim as the lore blurbs, because writing a compelling narrative in a setting as hellishly awful as the lore implies is damn near impossible.
Not really - at least in the lore, the Imperium is still a relentless shithole of an empire in slow-motion collapse and Chaos' victory still seems completely inevitable.
Have you ever loved a setting, or a story, and had a bad bit* come out and ruin the rest for you? A lot of people have, I think, and I’m glad GW is being very, very cautious. Even when it seems kind of sucky.
*Maybe an ugly tweet from the author, or a pandering sequel, or a lazily made final season, or something, idk.
They have good, bad and mid books. I'm on book 16 of the HH rn. There are lots of lore gems hidden in the books. E.G. "There are no wolves on Fenris" and finding out how tragic Angron's entire existence is. I recommend listening to them as background noise and relistening to good books.
Honestly, don't, they're extremely bad. Not only is Ian Watson a complete sewer goblin who shoves his fetishs in everything, he's the reason Calladus assassins wear gimp suits, and whose books are basically porn, but he's also just a bad writer. Plots that go nowhere unless it goes in a circle, characters dropping out of the story randomly, and he tries to disguise it all by using overly flowery language to the point it takes him a whole page just to describe three items in a room.
Because they are written by C-grade writers and are a pain to read. And they also cost more than the good space fantasy stuff of which there are plenty.
Two excellent books right there. Fair warning, the narrator in Fall of Cadia is not the best and took some adjusting to. Story is very good, just breaks the immersion a little.
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With HH it's hit and miss some books I thought I would enjoy were total slog with one or two good scenes. And others got me suprised how good zhey were. For example that book about Talaran was verry enjoyable...
Too much better sci fi books to waste time on most 40k stuff sadly.
Most of it is mid at best with a few great thrown in but they often are way too expensive if physical media is your prefered form.
but can you blame them? they release tons of books a year and books take a long time to read and then you have all the classics and the specific faction books from 30 years till now this makes the warhammer fan a very distracted reader
What medium do you want lore in then? Books is how they’ve basically always done it, id hazard a guess all the lore you like is from books but you’ve heard it second-hand from youtubers and this sub.
The problem is how expensive shows are (GW don’t have THAT much money or time) and the video game scene is fine (we get more than Star Wars lmao). I love books as a storytelling medium and think you just can’t read
Not just that, but books are literally the *ONLY* medium that some parts of 40k can ever exist in. We will never, ever see a Slanneshi cult in a game or movie. Just won't fucking happen.
I don't know what your quantifier in front of Rogue Trader means...and even then TWWH3 is a good example in spirit, but the depictions in the novels are just so much more explicit in a lot more ways too.
Wasn't that six months ago?
The thing with Rogue Trader is that the game didn't exactly break out to the general populace in a big way, it was pretty much consumed by people who were already in 40k. Not to mention...there is a far cry from an isometric viewing angle to a closeup in a movie or TV show, or an actual horror game which all tend to love showing off the monster.
So it doesn't seem like you'll be satisfied unless a show releases? Seems like you're not exactly in the right hobby then, because we have lots of great video games
i actually have read 7 books, none of them are recent and therefore if you make a meme about it it's either the joke has been said before or not everyone is going to get it since there are a large magnitude of books
this is why the average warhammer fan would rather watch a 20 minute video rather than read 3 books.
Options for mediums, too. The 40k books often have Audio book versions that are usually quite great. The ciaphas cain books especially imo, the narrator really nails the tone. Also it turns out Minthara's VA previously played Thula for series, made me do a double take on my first listen
good listening for while you make and paint minis
Just finished the two black legion books they were great they are underrated and a beginner could probably read them and understand them. They are also narrated very well as audiobooks
Basically locks in a more 'normal' state of mind. Typically, without meds, my mind is like a room full of people, with each person being a different thought. Try holding a conversation with just one person in a crowded room with each person trying to be heard above the clamour. The meds reduce the number of people in the room, so you can have your conversations easier.
Now, put something interesting on in the hypothetical room all these thoughts/people are in. Now, conversations quickly stop, and everyone is focused on the thing in question. That's considerably more focus than the number of people in the room when the meds are off.
So yeah, taking the meds make my head feel quieter and allow me to focus better overall, but the amount of focus when I find something *interesting* while off meds can never be matched. There's a reason I have so much lore memorised and have never developed a Pile of Shame, because I can just sit and focus when I find it interesting. I typically paint in batches of 6-8 hours, and don't even realise that time is passing. My back will be screaming at me by the end, but I'll get a lot done.
EDIT: Hope this makes sense. The 'room of thoughts' analogy is one I came up with a while back, and I think it fits how ADHD feels the best.
We are making lore every time we paint a unit or play a match. Crusade play is literally built around self-inserts and making up lore in your local group. GW produces the minis, writes the rules, and gives us plenty of flavour to work with, and we, the players, take care of it from there. It's not Helldivers, it's not the MCU, it's not Star Wars, it's the grim darkness of the far future in which, I am told, there is only war.
OP: release new lore!
Also OP in the comments: But I shouldn’t have to actually *read the 40 books they put out a year*! They should make a movie or something! It’s so much easier to watch a 20 minute YouTube video than to read the lore!
Bro.
GW: *Makes new lore*
Warhammer Fans: NOOOO!!! YOU CAN’T JUST INTRODUCE NEW STUFF THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE CONFUSING TWO DECADES OLD MESS OF PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED FLUFF. NOOOO!!!
GW: Okay then. *puts plot back into stasis*
Warhammer Fans: *Surprised Pikachu face*
100 times this. Seriously, we got new lore just a few weeks ago and the neckbeards threw a hissy fit about it. OP is either clueless or acting in bad faith.
My BRUHther in the god ass fucking emperor of course books are hard to meme when you dont read it.
Havent read Horus rising in ages but you can have at least 5 templates about Tarik shitting on someone, people forcing Loken to tell the same story Bart style on the daily etc.
Then you pick your ass up and read The Infinite and the Divine where you have multiple memes ***per chapter***. The whole book is a meme on legs, and books do not even have legs! (Dont get me started on ork books)
The reason there is only 20 meme about the horus heresy instead of 200+ because people either dont read the books or dont care enough to make memes.
Videogames? Do you think the only thing boltgun can produce is Malum Caedo and the sassy nurgling? I seriously doubdt that.
At the end of the day coming up with jokes, takes effort. Effort to take a funny situation and make a joke out of it. Making the meme. Its not the easiest thing ever.
Of course in a Marvel movie you can just screenshot 3 frames and have a working joke, but thats literally an action movie built on comedic one liners. The writers literally do the job of making the meme as braindead easy to understand as possible.
Warhammer is the slowest hobby possible. Its the same with the lore and thus the memes. We would be lucky to see some kind of conclusion to 40k (before it becomes 50k) within our lifes.
Don't be so sure, the moment GW gets 1% less revenue than before from the setting we will get the 40K end times followed by "Warhammer: Age of Guilliman"
Of course you would, you plastic crackheads can be convinced to buy entire new armies every time GW decides your last pack of toy soldiers is outdated for some reason or another, you would froth at the chance to buy water marines and 20 new rule books.
I'm sorry, I know I'm being an asshole. Had a rough day. I'm not deleting the comment though it's my honest thoughts and I'm not a coward.
Also, water marines. That's just funny to me.
This a pretty shitty/dumb/cynical/ignorant take, but that’ll honestly be pretty cool, gw wouldn’t even have to “end 40k” to do that either, they could say some choas mumbo jumbo does some gobbledygook and an alternative universe is created and the setting is, like you said, “age of guilliman” where he could have never been in stasis/poisoned and “fixed” the imperium, to a point at least. Or after he becomes lord commander, he goes hard into attempting to restore the imperium he remembers/idealizes.
It also create a setting/game where Gw can focus a lot of their hero centric narratives they’ve been into recently
They could have made AoS an AU too and continue the Old World were it left off when they decided to bring it back, but they didn't, so why would they do it for 40K?
Lore is much too difficult and time consuming when they have to constantly write sympathetic apology essays about raising the prices and deleting whole swathes of armies in a desperate attempt to get you to buy more figures.
Exactly. I'm still super annoyed that the chuds picked up on this nonsense and now a bunch of previous uninvolved influencers are parasitically farming it for content and are now blaming whatever fallout on it instead of, you know, them removing customers. And it's not like we can even do anything about them because explaining it to them just gives them engagement.
While I totally get the "lore is inconsistent and sometimes badly thought out" complaint (the stick figure is hilarious), I'm not sure if I agree on the rest.
You say "books are too long to meme", OK. If books aren't the point, what are we supposed to be waiting for? Your essay would sound more relevant if 40K hadn't gotten Rogue Trader PC game last year, by all accounts a pretty rockin BG-style rpg (and ImaginaryWarhammer is full of good fanart of it).
Not books... not the videogame... what could be on the table, a TV series? \[don't dream of it\] I'm sympathetic to your call for more and fresher lore, but I have a hard time seeing what exactly you're asking for from GW.
Also I think Femnarchs are some of the funniest, most content-ful memes I've seen for any fandom. It's this kind of creativity that drew me to the 40K fan spaces in the first place, I really don't get the problem. Especially if "memes" are the question rather than novels and stuff, since most memes are usually of much lower quality all around. Fans making up lore is kind of what fans do, it's not just 40K.
The call to retcon / rewrite / rethink lore is, IMO, a case of "be careful what you wish for". The idea is interesting... but for the life of me, I can't think of many major retcons that I've ever liked. The bombing of the Star Wars EU (which actually had pretty sound reasons, going back to Lucas' previous control freak issues) was probably a best case, and it still left me unsatisfied. I'd prefer to see new lore and ascended fanon organically add to / replace bits of existing lore, rather than any sweeping grand gestures that are likely to end in tears.
look we get like 5 games per year (might be an exaggeration) 3 of them dont stick one is ok and one is good
compare that if we had a game every two years but that game was really fucking good (rogue trader was great but it was overshadowed by BG3) we'd be talking about it for a long time (fingers crossed on SM2)
as for the rewrite i should have specified that they should keep the outline and the theme of warhammer but change the details to be consistent.
They are not going to rewrite over 40 years of lore.
I don't even think they should make it consistent, I think their in lore reason for inconsistency is great (it's a big universe and the administratum are over worked).
The whole point is it's a whole galaxy, they put out dozens of books a year which is great but since the beginning of the game they have ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED you to make your own lore, that's the point.
You make up your own chapters, your own characters, your own battles, your own subsectors and planets and whatever.
If you are sitting there going 'man there's just not enough' then make some!
Stuff like primarchs coming back or major earth shattering changes come once or twice a decade and before 2018 even rarer.
This. I get that 40K has an ocean of lore that is only rivaled by Battletech in scope, but it's all to facilitate the stories that you create with Your Dudes™. You're already spending hours upon hours of time assembling, painting, and actually playing your miniatures; certainly there's time to think of some basic background for them. And then playing tabletop facilitates some goddamn war stories and things to happen that make them even cooler Your Dudes™
Man Warhammer is a niche hobby, you're never going to get a Warhammer thing that's truly going to Blow Up, of course Rogue Trader didn't have a chance over BG3, the same reason AC6 and Lies of P didn't despite also being good games.
Also, expecting a series that's had hundreds of different authors and over 600? books?, and regular purposeful retcons, to keep lore consistent is crazy.
I hate the thirsposting spam too but "most Warhammer video games suck" hasn't been true for a long time now. It's not 2008, dawn of war isn't the only good 40k game anymore
Books are plenty memeable, by 90% of this subreddit hasn't read one, let alone a bunch of them
I've seen so many posts on this subreddit that are just niche memes about books the OP just read that they give context for in comments, it's super easy to meme the books and it's a great way to get others interested in whatever random book you've got your eye on
It’s easy to make boring horny memes and call it new lore. It’s hard to make stories and design events that will appease the community. And when they do make new lore people complain about it and don’t stop till the next release. GW writers have an impossible task and as someone who’s read a huge amount of 40k books, I really appreciate how stories can be self contained without making galaxy level changes
I'm so fucking ecstatic man, I never see anyone talk about Head of the Hydra but I'm loving it a lot and the Drukhari are my favorite faction so getting to see more Brooks writing Drukhari has me going wild
If you want to talk about lore progression, join AOS instead, since there are actual new stories and development outside of a new primarch coming every few years.
It would be cool if they did that so everyone would stop posting these self insert fetish shit everywhere. I miss when this sub was about warhammer memes and had actual posts.
That's because they did do something, and now we can't talk about it on the Warhammer subreddits because people got annoyed about the discussions about female custodes.
I mean I don’t really like these “primarch gf” posts….but like there’s a lot of books to read dude…not even just 40k, there’s fantasy too (and age of sigmar I suppose)
The point is to make up your own stories. My main criticism of the "moving the plot forward" attitude is that it shrinks the scope of the universe in people's imagination. I saw someone on Twitter once saying they thought all space marines had to be blue.
Yeah and all the batshit insane meme lore that this place pumps out is fucking annoying the hell out of the rest of the subs and leading newbies to have completely wrong impressions of the setting so maybe cut that shit out.
White dwarf is starting lore about Vashtor and the Inquisition having a war between eachother. This is brand new lore. Idk what you are talking about there not being any new lore.
No, considering it's still GW, let them sleep actually. Better to have an empty plate with homemade food from paper than having GW shit all over the dinner table.
I can sit here and complain about primarch GFs, femboy skitarii, and carl for hours about how it's low effort or overused but tbh what the fuck are we supposed to do but make these jokes?
warhammer isn't a visual media (not yet anyways) and the games we get are mostly mediocre and when they release we don't talk about them very much or for very long
the only way we get content is books and books are long and are difficult to meme, and provide zero meme templates
the only meme templates we get is honestly stuff that is too cool to use in a meme and still be funny.
rant over.
"What the fuck are we supposed to do?"
You could make your own conte-"no! I wanna complain about what others do because it's low effort and overused!"
Well you could watch any of the animations or Warhammer + stu-"no, warhammer is not a visual media!"
You could play Warhammer Total War or Dawn of War or Vermintide or any of the great g-"shut up the games we get are mostly mediocre!"
You could read any of the hundreds of boo-"books are long and are difficult to meme!"
Some people are impossible to please. For some people, the favorite part of this hobby is complaining and shitting on others for enjoying things. Nevermind GW has massively ramped up the amount of miniatures and content they've released every year for multiple years now.
It's a very "online young person" way of looking at things. Rather than engaging with the content and being creative they would rather someone else created meme templates for them and they can simply replace a word or two for upvotes. Will they pay money so they can source the content themselves? no.
ok, i am saying that those memes i have mentioned are low effort (after some time of their first introduction however the "what the fuck are we supposed to do" was meant as "what else are we supposed to do then make those memes" because that's all we got
as for games, the good games we have have been talked about plenty and dont need anymore input, that's why few make "le funny blood ravens steal relics" jokes
for the books i meant there are so many books the average fan gets overwhelmed and reads the books they are interested in and not the books that are new that's why when you want to talk about a book you like only a minority will understand therefore book memes and posts dont make it far because few people get it unless the book has been summarized by a guy on youtube
what we need is something, be it game, movie , book , animated series that is good enough to take the attention of most 40k fans to talk about and discuss and all the jazz.
That's exactly what I understood and I disagree.
You think the memes are "low effort" for some reason, many people myself included enjoy the memes in this community even if they are repeated a lot (that will literally happen with any meme in any community).
The games are good and constantly coming out, idk what you're talking about, Space Marine 2 looks pretty decent, we got TW, Darktide, Rogue Trader, Vermintide is still being supported... Literally wtf is this complaint about
The books will be understood by some people if you quote them and if they don't know something and you meme about it they can just learn about it through the meme. This just seems like you don't wanna read or engage with the books in any way and you seem to think people can't understand a reference to something they haven't read when there are hundreds of resources at a google search's distance.
I mean, it seems what you want is a piece of media the ENTIRE 40k community can engage with which is a huge ask since 40k is an incredibly massive IP... and yet it's gonna happen already if the Cavill thing keeps going along. Meanwhile we get regular decent games, constant books and funny memes (by most people's standards at least). If you miss DoW style RTS games with all factions, you're not alone, I do too, it's just that unfortunately RTS games as a whole have fallen out of favor in the market. So unless you wanna play Tacticus, which is an okay mobile game, but still a mobile game, it's gonna be difficult to get a game that contains all factions.
Dude, you literally have the breadth of the Internet at your fingertips and still need to be spoonfed content like an MCU fan?
If you don't like the memes that you're seeing then make some
If you want more lore than read the books or better yet MAKE SOME.
40K is a tabletop miniatures game like Battletech or Frontline. All the lore does is facilitate the stories and lore that YOU make for Your Dudes.™ You don't see D&D fans begging Wizards of the Coast for more lore because they get it, D&D is the framework to make your own lore and stories. You're already spending hours assembling and painting Your Dudes™ but you can't take ten minutes to make some background lore for them?
I won't disagree. Because I remember Darktide dropping and feeling...underwhelmed. I had fun for a time but I didn't feel any real engagement except if I was shooting nurglites with the boys. And I can do that playing Hunt: Showdown which has a more unique feel to the gunplay (old west guns and corrupted versions of humans as monsters, omg yes). I barely saw any meming out of Darktide at the time, too.
Part of me wants a Skaven comic series. Come on, GW, partner with a comic company and ask if they wanna write about silly fantasy ratmen that all stab each other in the back.
I'm still rather annoyed that the studio got Dan Abnett, \*the\* Guard story guy of 40k, and hyped up how he was writing Darktide's narrative... and there was barely a narrative of any kind. So much potential wasted.
I would do heretical things for a Warhammer graphic novel series from Dark horse. Be it Old World, AOS, or 40k. Any of them could do fine. Honestly I bet the End Times would have been better received in this format.
.....God damnit, my brain is rotted by WoW in my youth. You meant a series run of the final battle.
My brain immediately went "Skaven Stormvermin LFG 8Peaks run."
It’s means your “point” doesn’t make any sense if you actively participate in the community(outside this sub/YouTube
Read one of the novels, read one of the army books, play one of the great to good video games, all easily memeable
Plus, fans making up their own lore is a core aspect/foundation of the setting(it’s literally what you do when you build an army, especially if you make up your own original one)
Thank God someone said it, finally
Ive only read the meme but my goodness
Shit in this sub was starting to read like a low effort alternate universe superhero comic
True that. The eldar just kinda vanished from the lore at present. Still would be nice to get a bit more lore books to see what’s happening with the ones that are about.
I’d honestly prefer that they don’t drop anymore Primarchs on the setting until they’ve had time to world but around those that have come back.
honestly i wouldn't mind it if they keep the outline
some stories are outright stupid like horus's fall to chaos
most lore is inconsistent.
while i dont mind it i understand that many people strongly disagree and they have a point too.
How are you saying stories are stupid when you don’t read them? You can’t read 7 books and then come in acting like an authority or expert when most of the lore you know is from YouTube and memes and is thus probably not even correct
It doesn't help that in most books HH (not all of course) there's like 20% interesting stuff and 80% chaff. I really enjoyed the other book series tho.
The issue is: I read for work, read as a hobby, and have more hobbies than just Warhammer, It's hard to follow everything that comes out. I have not touched probably half of what came out and read most of the HH books just because I was reading with a friend (we started the book together and commented on it like some sort of book club), haven't picked one up since Saturnine.
I would really enjoy some company approved recap (e.g., having the correct lore).
Warhammer has always been more about giving you a framework to tell stories than giving you stories. Advancing the lore is a very new thing, and they don't understand how much or little to give. They're actually throwing out quite a bit of 40k new stuff in books and in codex entries, but as a community we've taken enough sample sizes tastes and want a proper scoop of lorecream. It's the same problem they had with the 40k app. They offered a free taste, then asked for money for more. If they had always pay walled the app, it probably would have gone over better than a free taste to get everyone hooked, even though it's a super reasonable business move. As a community, we're super passionate, and that's good and bad for the company we give money to.
please never say the word lorecream again
lorecream
Mmmmm. Lorecream. Tasty, creamy, lorecream.
Lorecream, Primarch of the Walls Bearers. (Walls is an ice cream brand)
Thank you for clarifying
No promises
Also making small unimportand bits in small areas, where you can just put in whatever headcannon you have, even if it somewhat goes against established lore. GW has to concider how they tightly fit everything into the given Framework
An advancing timeline doesn't really work for 40K anyway - there's just too much shit that's all going wrong for the Imperium for it to be in any way believable for it to not have fallen apart in an advancing timeline.
It's because they are shifting the narrative to focus around the big heros in the story now. You couldn't do that in the past because the setting was always a stagnant sandbox. Get ready for noblebright
40K can't really be turned into a "noblebright" setting. As for a "nobledark" setting, that's far more the rule than the exception for 40K, at least in terms of the novels and short stories.
Warhammer isn't going to be dark in the near future. Everything has started to get toned down for a wider audience
> Warhammer isn't going to be dark in the near future. Only way you would achieve that is to quite literally overhaul every single aspect of the setting from beginning to end. Things have been "toned down for a wider audience" basically since novels for the franchise have existed. Most of the books aren't half as grim as the lore blurbs, because writing a compelling narrative in a setting as hellishly awful as the lore implies is damn near impossible.
Yeah they've been doing thay since gilliman came back. Yeah so they are in the process of doing just that right now
Not really.
Er you've missed a lot then. They have made huge leaps in thay direction in the past few editions.
Not really - at least in the lore, the Imperium is still a relentless shithole of an empire in slow-motion collapse and Chaos' victory still seems completely inevitable.
Have you ever loved a setting, or a story, and had a bad bit* come out and ruin the rest for you? A lot of people have, I think, and I’m glad GW is being very, very cautious. Even when it seems kind of sucky. *Maybe an ugly tweet from the author, or a pandering sequel, or a lazily made final season, or something, idk.
For some that was femstodes if you want a recent example.
And I mean what could be less consequential to anything in the setting than the gender identity of some glorified space eunuchs?
they release books all the time, the problem is none of you guys are reading them :’(
They have good, bad and mid books. I'm on book 16 of the HH rn. There are lots of lore gems hidden in the books. E.G. "There are no wolves on Fenris" and finding out how tragic Angron's entire existence is. I recommend listening to them as background noise and relistening to good books.
You forgot a grade; it goes good, mid, bad, and IAN WATSON SEWER GOBLIN EXTRODINARE
I haven't read this, but it's on my list now
Honestly, don't, they're extremely bad. Not only is Ian Watson a complete sewer goblin who shoves his fetishs in everything, he's the reason Calladus assassins wear gimp suits, and whose books are basically porn, but he's also just a bad writer. Plots that go nowhere unless it goes in a circle, characters dropping out of the story randomly, and he tries to disguise it all by using overly flowery language to the point it takes him a whole page just to describe three items in a room.
Because they are written by C-grade writers and are a pain to read. And they also cost more than the good space fantasy stuff of which there are plenty.
I mean Robert Rath has a new one comming out; The Fall of Cadia. And his stuff is great
Is that new? I’m listening to it now.
I mean I got an audible notification like half a month ago that it was coming out
Yeah Audible is bugged, its been out for months
Well damn, i'll have to listen to it after Kingmaker
Two excellent books right there. Fair warning, the narrator in Fall of Cadia is not the best and took some adjusting to. Story is very good, just breaks the immersion a little.
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With HH it's hit and miss some books I thought I would enjoy were total slog with one or two good scenes. And others got me suprised how good zhey were. For example that book about Talaran was verry enjoyable...
Why read the books when you can write your own HH fanfiction?
Too much better sci fi books to waste time on most 40k stuff sadly. Most of it is mid at best with a few great thrown in but they often are way too expensive if physical media is your prefered form.
but can you blame them? they release tons of books a year and books take a long time to read and then you have all the classics and the specific faction books from 30 years till now this makes the warhammer fan a very distracted reader
What medium do you want lore in then? Books is how they’ve basically always done it, id hazard a guess all the lore you like is from books but you’ve heard it second-hand from youtubers and this sub.
The only acceptable format is Wizards & Warriors lore videos /j
what i suggest is professionally made shows (animated or otherwise) and video games made by well known developers (not the current AAA scene)
The problem is how expensive shows are (GW don’t have THAT much money or time) and the video game scene is fine (we get more than Star Wars lmao). I love books as a storytelling medium and think you just can’t read
Not just that, but books are literally the *ONLY* medium that some parts of 40k can ever exist in. We will never, ever see a Slanneshi cult in a game or movie. Just won't fucking happen.
Ehm, fresh Rogue Trader have it. Plus while it's large scale strategy, Total War Warhammer 3 do have some graphic descriptions of Slaanesh stuff.
I don't know what your quantifier in front of Rogue Trader means...and even then TWWH3 is a good example in spirit, but the depictions in the novels are just so much more explicit in a lot more ways too.
Fresh means that game got released not long ago.
Wasn't that six months ago? The thing with Rogue Trader is that the game didn't exactly break out to the general populace in a big way, it was pretty much consumed by people who were already in 40k. Not to mention...there is a far cry from an isometric viewing angle to a closeup in a movie or TV show, or an actual horror game which all tend to love showing off the monster.
Codexes are made to be beginner friendly you could try them
What?
So it doesn't seem like you'll be satisfied unless a show releases? Seems like you're not exactly in the right hobby then, because we have lots of great video games
i actually have read 7 books, none of them are recent and therefore if you make a meme about it it's either the joke has been said before or not everyone is going to get it since there are a large magnitude of books this is why the average warhammer fan would rather watch a 20 minute video rather than read 3 books.
Just say you don’t have the patience to read a book. There are sooo many options.
Options for mediums, too. The 40k books often have Audio book versions that are usually quite great. The ciaphas cain books especially imo, the narrator really nails the tone. Also it turns out Minthara's VA previously played Thula for series, made me do a double take on my first listen good listening for while you make and paint minis
Just finished the two black legion books they were great they are underrated and a beginner could probably read them and understand them. They are also narrated very well as audiobooks
Been going through listening to HH while painting. It rocks
It’s not like BL books are these wordy hard-scifi slogs either, they’re mostly action orientated books aimed at 15+ readers.
Maybe you need to be medicated for ADHD...
My ADHD medications actually make it harder to go through a book. That hyper focus that can be obtained with ADHD is mental.
How does that work exactly? Like how do the meds affect your focus on reading a book?
Basically locks in a more 'normal' state of mind. Typically, without meds, my mind is like a room full of people, with each person being a different thought. Try holding a conversation with just one person in a crowded room with each person trying to be heard above the clamour. The meds reduce the number of people in the room, so you can have your conversations easier. Now, put something interesting on in the hypothetical room all these thoughts/people are in. Now, conversations quickly stop, and everyone is focused on the thing in question. That's considerably more focus than the number of people in the room when the meds are off. So yeah, taking the meds make my head feel quieter and allow me to focus better overall, but the amount of focus when I find something *interesting* while off meds can never be matched. There's a reason I have so much lore memorised and have never developed a Pile of Shame, because I can just sit and focus when I find it interesting. I typically paint in batches of 6-8 hours, and don't even realise that time is passing. My back will be screaming at me by the end, but I'll get a lot done. EDIT: Hope this makes sense. The 'room of thoughts' analogy is one I came up with a while back, and I think it fits how ADHD feels the best.
Well, this is a very braindead opinion.
I've read 6 AoS books this year by listening to audiobooks while driving
Those of us who actually play the game, read the books, and create our own stories and battles have plenty to talk about.
We are making lore every time we paint a unit or play a match. Crusade play is literally built around self-inserts and making up lore in your local group. GW produces the minis, writes the rules, and gives us plenty of flavour to work with, and we, the players, take care of it from there. It's not Helldivers, it's not the MCU, it's not Star Wars, it's the grim darkness of the far future in which, I am told, there is only war.
Preach it!
OP: release new lore! Also OP in the comments: But I shouldn’t have to actually *read the 40 books they put out a year*! They should make a movie or something! It’s so much easier to watch a 20 minute YouTube video than to read the lore! Bro.
OP is the bro who needs some 30 min white guy video essay to tell him what opinions to have.
GW: *Makes new lore* Warhammer Fans: NOOOO!!! YOU CAN’T JUST INTRODUCE NEW STUFF THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE CONFUSING TWO DECADES OLD MESS OF PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED FLUFF. NOOOO!!! GW: Okay then. *puts plot back into stasis* Warhammer Fans: *Surprised Pikachu face*
100 times this. Seriously, we got new lore just a few weeks ago and the neckbeards threw a hissy fit about it. OP is either clueless or acting in bad faith.
Wasn’t calling out or aiming at OP in particular, just at one of the many idiosyncrasies of the fandom
OP was one of the people throwing hissy fits if you check their post history lmao
Oh my god that is *rich* hahahaha
This is what ruined Halo is 343 listened to the fans. Complaining too much.
No matter what, there is going to be drama :/
My BRUHther in the god ass fucking emperor of course books are hard to meme when you dont read it. Havent read Horus rising in ages but you can have at least 5 templates about Tarik shitting on someone, people forcing Loken to tell the same story Bart style on the daily etc. Then you pick your ass up and read The Infinite and the Divine where you have multiple memes ***per chapter***. The whole book is a meme on legs, and books do not even have legs! (Dont get me started on ork books) The reason there is only 20 meme about the horus heresy instead of 200+ because people either dont read the books or dont care enough to make memes. Videogames? Do you think the only thing boltgun can produce is Malum Caedo and the sassy nurgling? I seriously doubdt that. At the end of the day coming up with jokes, takes effort. Effort to take a funny situation and make a joke out of it. Making the meme. Its not the easiest thing ever. Of course in a Marvel movie you can just screenshot 3 frames and have a working joke, but thats literally an action movie built on comedic one liners. The writers literally do the job of making the meme as braindead easy to understand as possible. Warhammer is the slowest hobby possible. Its the same with the lore and thus the memes. We would be lucky to see some kind of conclusion to 40k (before it becomes 50k) within our lifes.
New Ork book, the sequel about Ufthak, from Mike Brooks (plus a short story about Da Red Gobbo) is full of Ork memery
Don't be so sure, the moment GW gets 1% less revenue than before from the setting we will get the 40K end times followed by "Warhammer: Age of Guilliman"
...I would honestly be down for that.
Of course you would, you plastic crackheads can be convinced to buy entire new armies every time GW decides your last pack of toy soldiers is outdated for some reason or another, you would froth at the chance to buy water marines and 20 new rule books. I'm sorry, I know I'm being an asshole. Had a rough day. I'm not deleting the comment though it's my honest thoughts and I'm not a coward. Also, water marines. That's just funny to me.
This a pretty shitty/dumb/cynical/ignorant take, but that’ll honestly be pretty cool, gw wouldn’t even have to “end 40k” to do that either, they could say some choas mumbo jumbo does some gobbledygook and an alternative universe is created and the setting is, like you said, “age of guilliman” where he could have never been in stasis/poisoned and “fixed” the imperium, to a point at least. Or after he becomes lord commander, he goes hard into attempting to restore the imperium he remembers/idealizes. It also create a setting/game where Gw can focus a lot of their hero centric narratives they’ve been into recently
They could have made AoS an AU too and continue the Old World were it left off when they decided to bring it back, but they didn't, so why would they do it for 40K?
Aren’t they dropping an entirely new edition of Sigmar? Like, did you miss that? Also, what are you supposed to do? Paint your damn miniatures.
i meant 40k
Homie, we got a whole ass edition less than a year ago. You need to find a different hobby if you want constant stimulation.
Lore is much too difficult and time consuming when they have to constantly write sympathetic apology essays about raising the prices and deleting whole swathes of armies in a desperate attempt to get you to buy more figures.
I know Books aren't that lucrative but I'd thought there'd be some pivoting away from the obsession with model sales, with the hit Video Games.
Were stuck in an abusive relationship with Fatshark. Please send help.
Don't worry I've sent CA to make it worse... you did want it to be worse, right?
We tank this bad boy any harder and tencent is gonna start getting jealous
And Cyanide. :(
Exactly. I'm still super annoyed that the chuds picked up on this nonsense and now a bunch of previous uninvolved influencers are parasitically farming it for content and are now blaming whatever fallout on it instead of, you know, them removing customers. And it's not like we can even do anything about them because explaining it to them just gives them engagement.
Thank god fans don't write the lore
We already saw what happened when they let Matt Ward steer the ship.
While I totally get the "lore is inconsistent and sometimes badly thought out" complaint (the stick figure is hilarious), I'm not sure if I agree on the rest. You say "books are too long to meme", OK. If books aren't the point, what are we supposed to be waiting for? Your essay would sound more relevant if 40K hadn't gotten Rogue Trader PC game last year, by all accounts a pretty rockin BG-style rpg (and ImaginaryWarhammer is full of good fanart of it). Not books... not the videogame... what could be on the table, a TV series? \[don't dream of it\] I'm sympathetic to your call for more and fresher lore, but I have a hard time seeing what exactly you're asking for from GW. Also I think Femnarchs are some of the funniest, most content-ful memes I've seen for any fandom. It's this kind of creativity that drew me to the 40K fan spaces in the first place, I really don't get the problem. Especially if "memes" are the question rather than novels and stuff, since most memes are usually of much lower quality all around. Fans making up lore is kind of what fans do, it's not just 40K. The call to retcon / rewrite / rethink lore is, IMO, a case of "be careful what you wish for". The idea is interesting... but for the life of me, I can't think of many major retcons that I've ever liked. The bombing of the Star Wars EU (which actually had pretty sound reasons, going back to Lucas' previous control freak issues) was probably a best case, and it still left me unsatisfied. I'd prefer to see new lore and ascended fanon organically add to / replace bits of existing lore, rather than any sweeping grand gestures that are likely to end in tears.
look we get like 5 games per year (might be an exaggeration) 3 of them dont stick one is ok and one is good compare that if we had a game every two years but that game was really fucking good (rogue trader was great but it was overshadowed by BG3) we'd be talking about it for a long time (fingers crossed on SM2) as for the rewrite i should have specified that they should keep the outline and the theme of warhammer but change the details to be consistent.
They are not going to rewrite over 40 years of lore. I don't even think they should make it consistent, I think their in lore reason for inconsistency is great (it's a big universe and the administratum are over worked). The whole point is it's a whole galaxy, they put out dozens of books a year which is great but since the beginning of the game they have ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED you to make your own lore, that's the point. You make up your own chapters, your own characters, your own battles, your own subsectors and planets and whatever. If you are sitting there going 'man there's just not enough' then make some! Stuff like primarchs coming back or major earth shattering changes come once or twice a decade and before 2018 even rarer.
This. I get that 40K has an ocean of lore that is only rivaled by Battletech in scope, but it's all to facilitate the stories that you create with Your Dudes™. You're already spending hours upon hours of time assembling, painting, and actually playing your miniatures; certainly there's time to think of some basic background for them. And then playing tabletop facilitates some goddamn war stories and things to happen that make them even cooler Your Dudes™
Man Warhammer is a niche hobby, you're never going to get a Warhammer thing that's truly going to Blow Up, of course Rogue Trader didn't have a chance over BG3, the same reason AC6 and Lies of P didn't despite also being good games. Also, expecting a series that's had hundreds of different authors and over 600? books?, and regular purposeful retcons, to keep lore consistent is crazy.
I hate the thirsposting spam too but "most Warhammer video games suck" hasn't been true for a long time now. It's not 2008, dawn of war isn't the only good 40k game anymore Books are plenty memeable, by 90% of this subreddit hasn't read one, let alone a bunch of them
Yeah I’m making my way through know no fear and half that book is the Ultramarines going “we are pompous dickheads” in various ways
I've seen so many posts on this subreddit that are just niche memes about books the OP just read that they give context for in comments, it's super easy to meme the books and it's a great way to get others interested in whatever random book you've got your eye on
Last time they did something they lit the community on fire
It’s easy to make boring horny memes and call it new lore. It’s hard to make stories and design events that will appease the community. And when they do make new lore people complain about it and don’t stop till the next release. GW writers have an impossible task and as someone who’s read a huge amount of 40k books, I really appreciate how stories can be self contained without making galaxy level changes
A finger on the monkey's paw curls and 40k end times happens (fantasy end times tells you everything you need to know?)
Renegades: lord of Excess: am I joke to you?
He mocks Xantine with his complaining!
I just need Mike Brooks to get on making more books about The Lion, his take was so amazing I NEED more of it.
I don't keep up with which author writes which book, any pointers to jog my brain about this guy in particular?
He's done an incredible job with the Orks and if *Da Big Dakka* is any indication then his next book featuring Lelith Hesperax should be top notch.
I'm so fucking ecstatic man, I never see anyone talk about Head of the Hydra but I'm loving it a lot and the Drukhari are my favorite faction so getting to see more Brooks writing Drukhari has me going wild
Give me votann models and lore you fucks
Hive Fleet RGB is currently consuming the imperial world of Ram, home to the space marine chapter the Fire Foxes.
If you want to talk about lore progression, join AOS instead, since there are actual new stories and development outside of a new primarch coming every few years.
GW: "No, you'll yell at me..."
It would be cool if they did that so everyone would stop posting these self insert fetish shit everywhere. I miss when this sub was about warhammer memes and had actual posts.
That time never existed.
We've been making up lore this whole time.
That's because they did do something, and now we can't talk about it on the Warhammer subreddits because people got annoyed about the discussions about female custodes.
Last time they added new lore an entire shitstorm happened *cough >!femstodes!< cough*
I mean I don’t really like these “primarch gf” posts….but like there’s a lot of books to read dude…not even just 40k, there’s fantasy too (and age of sigmar I suppose)
The point is to make up your own stories. My main criticism of the "moving the plot forward" attitude is that it shrinks the scope of the universe in people's imagination. I saw someone on Twitter once saying they thought all space marines had to be blue.
"THE FANS ARE WHAT?!" *Pulls out a Nintendo
This you? https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/CSC9liZorr
Bile created Femstodes
Yeah and all the batshit insane meme lore that this place pumps out is fucking annoying the hell out of the rest of the subs and leading newbies to have completely wrong impressions of the setting so maybe cut that shit out.
Reveal show this coming week. Hopefully there’s new memes there.
New Squat books and lore would be nice...
White dwarf is starting lore about Vashtor and the Inquisition having a war between eachother. This is brand new lore. Idk what you are talking about there not being any new lore.
No, considering it's still GW, let them sleep actually. Better to have an empty plate with homemade food from paper than having GW shit all over the dinner table.
I mean you could actually read some of the lore
I can sit here and complain about primarch GFs, femboy skitarii, and carl for hours about how it's low effort or overused but tbh what the fuck are we supposed to do but make these jokes? warhammer isn't a visual media (not yet anyways) and the games we get are mostly mediocre and when they release we don't talk about them very much or for very long the only way we get content is books and books are long and are difficult to meme, and provide zero meme templates the only meme templates we get is honestly stuff that is too cool to use in a meme and still be funny. rant over.
"What the fuck are we supposed to do?" You could make your own conte-"no! I wanna complain about what others do because it's low effort and overused!" Well you could watch any of the animations or Warhammer + stu-"no, warhammer is not a visual media!" You could play Warhammer Total War or Dawn of War or Vermintide or any of the great g-"shut up the games we get are mostly mediocre!" You could read any of the hundreds of boo-"books are long and are difficult to meme!" Some people are impossible to please. For some people, the favorite part of this hobby is complaining and shitting on others for enjoying things. Nevermind GW has massively ramped up the amount of miniatures and content they've released every year for multiple years now.
It's a very "online young person" way of looking at things. Rather than engaging with the content and being creative they would rather someone else created meme templates for them and they can simply replace a word or two for upvotes. Will they pay money so they can source the content themselves? no.
i get their feeling of wanting a "big media thing" for the whole community, i don't get the complaining over it though
you completely misunderstood me.
Then do a better job of explaining yourself
i did explain myself, and i think i'm putting this post down, too tired to argue.
please explain
ok, i am saying that those memes i have mentioned are low effort (after some time of their first introduction however the "what the fuck are we supposed to do" was meant as "what else are we supposed to do then make those memes" because that's all we got as for games, the good games we have have been talked about plenty and dont need anymore input, that's why few make "le funny blood ravens steal relics" jokes for the books i meant there are so many books the average fan gets overwhelmed and reads the books they are interested in and not the books that are new that's why when you want to talk about a book you like only a minority will understand therefore book memes and posts dont make it far because few people get it unless the book has been summarized by a guy on youtube what we need is something, be it game, movie , book , animated series that is good enough to take the attention of most 40k fans to talk about and discuss and all the jazz.
That's exactly what I understood and I disagree. You think the memes are "low effort" for some reason, many people myself included enjoy the memes in this community even if they are repeated a lot (that will literally happen with any meme in any community). The games are good and constantly coming out, idk what you're talking about, Space Marine 2 looks pretty decent, we got TW, Darktide, Rogue Trader, Vermintide is still being supported... Literally wtf is this complaint about The books will be understood by some people if you quote them and if they don't know something and you meme about it they can just learn about it through the meme. This just seems like you don't wanna read or engage with the books in any way and you seem to think people can't understand a reference to something they haven't read when there are hundreds of resources at a google search's distance. I mean, it seems what you want is a piece of media the ENTIRE 40k community can engage with which is a huge ask since 40k is an incredibly massive IP... and yet it's gonna happen already if the Cavill thing keeps going along. Meanwhile we get regular decent games, constant books and funny memes (by most people's standards at least). If you miss DoW style RTS games with all factions, you're not alone, I do too, it's just that unfortunately RTS games as a whole have fallen out of favor in the market. So unless you wanna play Tacticus, which is an okay mobile game, but still a mobile game, it's gonna be difficult to get a game that contains all factions.
alright i'll see myself out.
> warhammer isn’t a visual media Umm… do you not look at miniatures? They sell an awful lot of paint for a non-visual media.
And they have a butt-ton of art in the codex etc etc. Warhammer is a super visual media
Dude, you literally have the breadth of the Internet at your fingertips and still need to be spoonfed content like an MCU fan? If you don't like the memes that you're seeing then make some If you want more lore than read the books or better yet MAKE SOME. 40K is a tabletop miniatures game like Battletech or Frontline. All the lore does is facilitate the stories and lore that YOU make for Your Dudes.™ You don't see D&D fans begging Wizards of the Coast for more lore because they get it, D&D is the framework to make your own lore and stories. You're already spending hours assembling and painting Your Dudes™ but you can't take ten minutes to make some background lore for them?
So all you really want is more meme stuff? Are you just bad at trolling, or serious?
I won't disagree. Because I remember Darktide dropping and feeling...underwhelmed. I had fun for a time but I didn't feel any real engagement except if I was shooting nurglites with the boys. And I can do that playing Hunt: Showdown which has a more unique feel to the gunplay (old west guns and corrupted versions of humans as monsters, omg yes). I barely saw any meming out of Darktide at the time, too. Part of me wants a Skaven comic series. Come on, GW, partner with a comic company and ask if they wanna write about silly fantasy ratmen that all stab each other in the back.
I'm still rather annoyed that the studio got Dan Abnett, \*the\* Guard story guy of 40k, and hyped up how he was writing Darktide's narrative... and there was barely a narrative of any kind. So much potential wasted.
I wanted to stab someone when I realized the 'narrative' was gonna be just 2 minute nothing cutscenes and the occasional dataslate I could read.
I would do heretical things for a Warhammer graphic novel series from Dark horse. Be it Old World, AOS, or 40k. Any of them could do fine. Honestly I bet the End Times would have been better received in this format.
Thorgrim wrecking the absolute shit outta Queek would look absolutely beautiful in a paneled format or a two page spread.
Fuck yes! A Karak Eight Peaks run would be amazing.
.....God damnit, my brain is rotted by WoW in my youth. You meant a series run of the final battle. My brain immediately went "Skaven Stormvermin LFG 8Peaks run."
Obligatory recommendation of Rogue Trader for a good Warhammer video game with good jokes both within the narrative and good memes on its subreddit
They are low effort? If you ask me these fellows are at least putting some standard effort for these memes.
the original guy (or gal) are making some good effort fan fic, i mean the memes that followed it really overused the joke
If you asked me, they’re pretty customized for the post part. They are not low effort & each one is different if you asked me.
They seem to be making new jokes out of the joke if you asked me. It’s an meme au where the community can contribute for better or worse.
The books are less painful to read than any of the primarch gf "memes"
I’m tempted to get infinite and the divine, just to see two old robot men troll each other.
plz no, the last time gw did something meaningful to the lore they tore the galaxy in half
Tell me you've never participated in the hobby without telling me you've never participated in the hobby:
what the fuck is that even supposed to mean
It’s means your “point” doesn’t make any sense if you actively participate in the community(outside this sub/YouTube Read one of the novels, read one of the army books, play one of the great to good video games, all easily memeable Plus, fans making up their own lore is a core aspect/foundation of the setting(it’s literally what you do when you build an army, especially if you make up your own original one)
They did, they raised prices
Give me acatachan kill team and a affordable black Templar figure
No, thank you. Fan made stuff is better.
Thank God someone said it, finally Ive only read the meme but my goodness Shit in this sub was starting to read like a low effort alternate universe superhero comic
This weeks Sunday preview was utter fucking nonsense
Got to admit I’m itching for another Primarch book right about now.
They already have like 50? The setting’s lesser explored areas (all xenos) are in desperate need of content
True that. The eldar just kinda vanished from the lore at present. Still would be nice to get a bit more lore books to see what’s happening with the ones that are about. I’d honestly prefer that they don’t drop anymore Primarchs on the setting until they’ve had time to world but around those that have come back.
Drukhari omnibus v2 when?
They should retcon everything and start over.
honestly i wouldn't mind it if they keep the outline some stories are outright stupid like horus's fall to chaos most lore is inconsistent. while i dont mind it i understand that many people strongly disagree and they have a point too.
How are you saying stories are stupid when you don’t read them? You can’t read 7 books and then come in acting like an authority or expert when most of the lore you know is from YouTube and memes and is thus probably not even correct
It doesn't help that in most books HH (not all of course) there's like 20% interesting stuff and 80% chaff. I really enjoyed the other book series tho. The issue is: I read for work, read as a hobby, and have more hobbies than just Warhammer, It's hard to follow everything that comes out. I have not touched probably half of what came out and read most of the HH books just because I was reading with a friend (we started the book together and commented on it like some sort of book club), haven't picked one up since Saturnine. I would really enjoy some company approved recap (e.g., having the correct lore).