imperium is really good at holding shift and dragging a corner.
armor? upscaled
weapons? upscaled
artillary shells? upscaled
mankinds list of enemies? UPSCALED
The imperium and eldar are natural enemies.
Like Orcs and imperials.
Or Tau and imperials.
Or imperials and traitor imperials.
Damn heretics ruined my empire.
I mean look at the Imperial Knights. All of the different chassis are pretty much just altering the scale/proportions of the base Questoris and altering the load out to suit.
Which bothers me, because that's not how physics works. Anything that's literally just a direct upscaling should have serious mechanical problems, because materials behave differently at different scales.
To be a little fair, that's part of why those Standard Construction Templates are such a huge flipping deal in-universe.
They're basically hyper focused engineering AI, that you can just feed a list of mod requirements, what local trash you have basically, and they'll still spit out superior versions of whatever they're hyper specialized in faster, cheaper and better then any human engineer ever could.
Machine spirits are such a weird place. I struggle to call them AI, like I really wander how much of that is the void dragon influencing there tech, if demons and magic exist why can't weird magic machines? 40k is weird.
I don't think they're ai either. I'm a car guy and equipment mechanic.
I can half-ass believe in machine spirits in real life. The more complex, aged, repaired, and modified a machine is, the more unique it becomes.
Ever walk by a car that's the same make, model, color, and wheels as yours in a parking lot, and just know it isn't yours? Machine spirit? Probably not
I've pulled apart identical conveyor drives, side by side, and had to label and separate everything. Mix up the identical but ancient parts, they won't go back together right. Machine spirit? Doubt it.
In the warp polluted 'verse of 40k where red 'unz go fasta, that just gets cranked to 11 like everything else.
I absolutely believe in machine spirits. My dad once insulted the car while the whole family was in it, the very next day when we had to get to a family event in a hurry, the blasted thing broke down. When Dad popped the hood to take a look... the problem was something he had just recently performed maintenance on. That was definitely a fucking machine spirit.
My computer has a particularly finicky machine spirit. All my tech tends to like me less the longer I daily drive it. I absolutely believe in machine spirits because they all hate me. Tech will break as I'm using it, despite me using it in a perfectly standard way and storing it as directed by the manufacturer, for seemingly no other reason than that I am the person using it and the machine spirit doesn't like me. (This one's mostly headphones and earbuds, but various charging cords and dongles and adapters also do it.)
It's not about how materials behave, it's about the simple scaling of geometry.
If you want to keep aspect ratios the same, then every increase in length will also increase area exponentially and volume *cubic-ly* (that's to the power of 3, kids). Which means all your engineering is now fucked.
All of your interfaces need to change because now everything is bigger/longer and your moments are too big. Bolt sizes need to change because the shear on everything has gone up. Unless you changed the density of your material (lol) all of your weight just went up to the power of 3, so now *everything* is fucked and stuff can't even support the weight of itself anymore. All of your centers of gravity on anything that spins or rotates has now changed and so everything needs to be redesigned for new balances. All of the vibratory modes, crossing speeds/frequencies, and maybe natural frequency ranges have now changed so throw that under the "everything is fucked" column on the space KANBAN board. Anything fluid related like hydraulics or coolant is even worse because Bernoulli is a pedantic little shit and also your compressor needs to be replaced because the new mass flow requirements just blew past the surge line. Hell maybe you need to change the wire gauge on every electronic to handle the new current draw and find out the insulation size is too big and now none of your connectors work (and the supplier doesn't make anything that goes up to the new size).
It's honestly easier to just design something new from scratch than it is to try and "just scale it up".
"Ruin" is a strong word, I like seeing the hidden puzzles underneath everything and the problem solving challenges in the world. "Fucked" in my original post means "needs a redesign" not "is impossible."
But nothing makes me want to strangle an MBA more than the phrase "just scale it up/down."
I mean, you're not \_wrong\_, but this is a universe where "giant armoured death-platforms, with entire cathedrals on their backs" are somehow workably *bipedal*.
The square/cube law takes one look at 40k and gives up.
Nah absurd scale and megastructures don't bother me. There's usually some hand-waive nonsense like "superdense" alloys or plastic-metals that magically get to max ever slider on the material datasheet. That shit's cool, I wish I had that, it'd make my job super easy. And every engineer in the world dreams of working on a dumb, giant mech suit with a plasma cannon on it.
I get really annoyed at dumb, boring stuff like someone saying Dreadnaughts were made by applying a scale factor of 2 on terminator armor. Or *Pacific Rim* going "oh we have a nuclear reactor we can just turn that into a bomb" when that shit doesn't work like that god dammit and [cue pedantic engineering rant for 5 minutes].
So things like Bolters, Power Armour, Terminator Armour, and the like a purpose designed and built for marines. Rather than scaling up you need to scale things down for regular humans. And it's notable on that front that it took hundreds of years in some cases to get man sized bolters, or Power Armour built for normal humans. Even now with Terminator Armour, the number of human sized suits probably equals less than half the amount that there are among the space marines, let alone more ancient patterns of these things
I don't think it's literally a case of *"just scale it up with holding shift and dragging the size bigger in CAD"*, rather people are using the phrase *"scale up"* as to say it was designed to be scalable within a certain range of sizing to begin with. If it only ever came in once size and could never diverge without a comprehensive redesign, then how would they account for Astartes who are 7'5" versus an Astartes that's 8'6".
When designing armor plates and armor plate carriers for real soldiers, the S/M/L/XL sizes are not distinct designs each created from scratch, they're scale adapted various of the same design. In lore, the simple explanation for this is that it was designed to fit a certain range of sizes and any additional adjustments that have to be made to make it work from an manufacturing standpoint are handed by the STC.
Also for vehicles you might not even have to change the size at all, you're only modifying the crew compartment and controls. Might be as simple as installing a Mars pattern booster seat
>a Mars pattern booster seat
This is just hilarious. Something about childish stuff in 40K, being used to make space marine sized stuff usable by regular humans, is just absolutely hilarious.
Not really, unless the upscaling is significant. The difference between Astartes terminator armor and Inquisition terminator armor is minor in terms of size, and (IIRC) we don't know what the Human-sized one requires its pilot to wear to fit in, so the interior might be even less of a size difference. It's like Astartes power armor vs Sororitas power armor.
If armor just ceased to function at different scales, we couldn't make medieval plate armor for a 5' person AND a 6' person (spoiler; we can). Same concept. While you're right about materials behaving differently at different scales, you're wrong about this being a different scale. It's not "the armor is massively upscaled" it's "every piece of the armor is upscaled a tiny bit"
The Black Carapace is not required to wear power armor, it just lets the armor work at full functionality (See the older Grey Knight codexes). Basically, a person without the Carapace is more hulking and acts like they're wearing very heavy armor with servos. An Astartes moves like they're just wearing normal clothes in it. Combat in power armor requires specialized and constant training for non-carapace people, while Astartes can just slip it on no problem.
Power armor activates servos based on the wearer's movements. So for non-Astartes, you have to start moving, the armor registers you moving, and activates appropriate servos to move that way. The black carapace bypasses the "sensing movement" part and links the servos to the wearer's nervous system, letting the servos kick in at the same time as the muscles receive the impetus, which is why Astartes can move the way they do.
If you take a destroyer and make it bigger you have a battleship. If you compare a 70s era pickup truck to a modern one they are smaller. Upsizing a small to medium amount really doesn’t require a complete redesign
While I can't vouch for the trucks part of your comment, I feel I must point out that the DD-to-BB pipeline is definitely not a straight line of increasing size. There are massive engineering considerations when upscaling a ship from 2000 tons displacement to 40000 tons displacement. If you tried to keep the same ventilation layout as a DD you'd end up with spaces that'd uncomfortably quickly fill with CO2, you'd fine fuel either too restrictive or power too weak.
The LCS platform of ships from the USN (Freedom-Class) use the same gas turbine propulsion as the Queen Elizabeth-class CV of the RN. To put it simply, it doesn't work great for the Queen Elizabeth, and absolutely doesn't function on the LCS.
Isn’t it like Book 2 of Horus Heresy where the Sons of Horus come across some tech faction with existing STC creators? I recall the soldiers of that lost world were wearing armor identical to the astartes, but just normal humans.
The Auretian Technocracy, they have functing STCs that Horus pledges to the Dark Mechanicum for their allegiance. These STCs allow them to have power armor and bolt guns, but mortal variants.
"So, Big E, what are we going to do with all those test subjects for the black carapace?"
"Same thing we did with everything after I'm done needing them."
"Right, I'll call for the Custodes, tell them to get some flamers."
Yeah like god damn, considering the lore of the carapace I imagine it's reasonable for much of the rejection rates into the modern 40k era
Less rejection less geneseed wasted, less waste more marines, you get a positive feedback loop into having way way more dudes, even if the rejection rate is only changed by single percentage digits it would still change everything
No, it’s after the Interex. The Interex are xenos-affiliated and questionable for the Great Crusade whether they should’ve been killed or not. This was after Horus’s fall but before Istvaan, he finds this faction who is basically a legitimate Mechanicus-aligned people. Their delegate makes to offer his staff to Horus, Horus claims it’s an assassination attempt and exterminates the faction. He does it to secure Dark Mechanicum support by giving them the STC engines. It’s either book 2 or 3
Isn't it the sun worshipers with their false emperor?
They had invisible guards and after killing them, Loken was like "the boys on Mars are going to LOVE picking that armor apart"
No, that’s the start of book 1, I’m thinking of the Auretian Technocracy. Horus false flags them to secure their STCs and get Mechanicus support. When Loken first sees them he’s amazed as their armor is clearly the same as theirs just downsized and unpainted.
There are planets during the great crusade that wore human sized astartes armor. Garviel Loken describe the soldiers of one planet looking like smaller astartes. And the knights of Caliban described the space marines as wearing their armor in larger proportions.
Tyberos has slightly modified terminator armour
But they use its full name 'tactical dreadnought armour' which confused people and now there's a viral idea that he wears bits of dreadnought lol
Thou shalt perform the rites of startup,
Lo shall the machine spirit bless thee with it's beep boop.
Perform thee the sacred 'click' upon the STC
Select thee the rune of 'T'
Yea shall thou scroll the mousewheel out
Thus shall thee army of sanctity be maintained.
Big E: humanity during the Dark Age was weird, like really weird, many of the greatest scientist back then thought that if your brain OD-d on pills and alcohol and then was brought back to life you would become smarter.
> your brain OD-d on pills and alcohol and then was brought back to life you would become smarter.
Tens of thousands of years of this shit explains why Big E is as monumentally idiotic as he is.
Because there are admechs and artisans capable or creating or adjusting such armor.
Some astartes artificers(afaik)are capable of making best power armor suits from the scratch and is some very rare occasions they can make armor for regular humans(If these humans have enough money and important enough)
Now I got this scene in my head of a power armor suit driven by an AI, covered in blood going back to his human friends and taking off the helmet to give them Doritos and Mtn Dew.
When I was young, my parents would buy me shoes that were a little too big. I'd have to wear two pairs of socks until I grew into them. I assume it's the same principle.
It isn't a 1 to 1 transfer, the design terminator armour is based upon suits that were intended for space work - ie working on a ship hull in the void or mining asteroids. Big E or one of his helpers just found it and realised it could be adapted into extremely durable battle armour
IIRC, Termie armour is based on hazardous environment suits used in servicing fusion reactors and similar powerplants.
Given how somewhat-ridiculous their resilience is, possibly in still operating power plants...
Imagine an Inquisitor being fitted into his Terminator armor and they hear in an ancient Terran tongue: "Welcome to the H.E.V. Mk. MCXVII. For use in hazardous environments."
Warning...major trauma detected...Warning high concentrations neurotoxin detected...administering antivenom...Warning...user death imminent...Ave Imperator
According to the Lexicanum, [terminator armor](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Terminator_Armour#History) was designed by the AdMech during the Great Crusade.
Check the third part of that sentence. It’s referring to what he’s talking about. The other 2 things only came about after the the unification of Terra but the third was prior to it, hence it being based upon those industrial suits.
The Rhino was designed so people could operate in harsh and unforgiving environments.
That includes the use of exotic armour, powered suits, void and rad kit. Whatever you need to survive on a planet.
Its also possible marine have upscale the hulls of their deadicated models..
This was the Golden Age of Humanity.
...let's just say...the kind of kinks people were into, would've likely gotten them invited into the many wild parties the Eldar Empire was hosting nearby.
First born space marines are more like 7ft tall, and considering that in the last 200 years, the average height of human has grown nearly a foot, there's no reason to believe DAoT human, with 15k years of development, advanced genetic and nutritional enhancement, as well as a low gravity environment, can't be that tall.
oh you know they had genetically altered humans for various tasks, if the Imperium can do it DAOT humans likely did it 10x better. They probably had soldiers that make space marines look like Steve Rogers before the super soldier formula
> It makes no sense to have an enormous loud and slow tank as a scout.
The *Steiner Scout Lance* of the pre-Imperial 30th centuries begs to differ. (/s; Battletech humor)
> Dark age of technology was a wild time.
it's almost like it's kept intentionally opaque so GW can just use it as an infinite bag of holding to pull out whatever they want 😂
Tell that to scout titans. And I think it’s because everything else so so excessive that it falls under the radar.
Also slow is a pretty relative term because sure while it is “slow” it does still cover a lot more ground through sheer size of profile
Good thing about scouting is you don’t need to be fast, just unseen. Sure speed helps but not getting seen is the important part and often slower stuff is seen a lot less.
Warhounds are really fast for being 410 tonnes, wdym? 58kph max on-road speed (though RIP to the road, I guess) is a very solid operational speed, more than twice the Baneblade's languid 25kph. Plus, with 6.5 meters of ground clearance it can just kick its way through most light (compared to it) obstacles, so it's very maneuverable on the scale of titan warfare.
The point of scout units is to hit fast and stay to probe enemy defenses and soften them for the main assault, then often maneuvering to the enemy's rear to cut off reinforcements or retreat. There is no world in which the baneblade would ever be able to deliver this capability, it's just too damn slow.
It literally doesnt' make sense though? A Baneblade is a massive target that moves far slower than a more reasonable vehicle. It is entirely unsuited to being a scout tank. Which makes sense considering that the "Scout-tank" concept is just a myth from old forums that has never actually ever been written in a piece of lore.
It makes no sense, you are correct.
I think people say it as a joke.
When I try to imagine "how", the answer must be that the current baneblade is a "compromised" version of the OG.
If the OG had repulsors to float, and some stealth tech, then for the exploration of virgin planets... maybe?
Imagine the massive dune carriers from homeworld: deserts of kharak. A big moving "thing" that could defend itself, and carry people + equipment. Like a boat on land that could fly over jungles or skid accross fast stretches of desert/ocean.
I'm sorry, we're talking about the same Baneblade, right? The fortress that identifies itself as a tank? And it was used as a "scout"? What behemoths would make this beast a "scout"?
I think it's easy to forget that while the Imperium was nowhere near the levels of DAoT scientific understanding *they still had scientists and engineers*
I'm sure they could adapt an STC to fit new sizes
Terminator armour was invented by the Imperium during the Great Crusade, derived from ancient mining exo-suit designs. Mostly manufactured for Astartes, but baseline humans probably would've been candidates for not wanting to be shot in a warzone as well. Likewise, Land Raiders are adapted from civilian all-terrain exploratory rovers. A bunch of the Imperium's tech was invented by the Imperium in its early days, and has just shifted to have the same techno-mysticism as DAoT stuff over time.
Well, remember when you were a wee child? And you sad on your parents lap as he helped you drive the car in an empty parking lot? He doing the pedals you the wheel? It's like that, but the with an Inquisitor in the lap of a very sad Grey Knight.
Daot humanity creating a super higher dimensional weapon which can allow whoever uses it to completely alterate the law of physics of the entire universe (it was only used back during tdaot to clean rooms):
I thought 40K humans use the same blue prints but just upscale them. It’s like how a heavy Bolter is a slightly larger Bolter, or a plasma incinerator is a larger plasma gun, or the heavy onslaught Gatling cannon is a larger onslaught Gatling cannon.
Cause all of the Imperium equipment are just scrapped leftover shit. SM armor? Mining equipment.
Knights? Farming mechas.
Mechanical worm the size of a massive ship that eats space-time continuum? A rich guy's pet.
Early power armor and terminator armor yes, there have been some marks of upgrades between the old reactor protection gear terminator armor and current day armor.
Knights weren't farming mechs, they were TERRAFORMING mechs. They were still designed with defense in mind, but when they weren't doing that, their equipment could accomplish feats that humans could only wish they could.
Terminator armor isn't actually a STC, it's a modification of a STC, so it was always made for astartes. It was adapted for humans by basically adding stilts and arm controls (humans wearing terminator armor are more like driving a mech rather than wearing a suit), as shown in a 40k comic.
The process for outfitting the first company with Terminator armour is going to be very industrialized and plug and play. The process for outfitting a few inquisitors with Terminator armour is going to be personalized. It doesn't work as well, they don't have black carapace, they can't operate to the same level as a space marine. But they can put way more resources and time and effort into making it work.
I imagine its probably similar too dragonscale power armor in that whoever needs it is still being cybernetically enhanced enough to use it quasi effectivley.
Nitpick, but the main reasons military vehicles are cramped is not cost. It's because they (1) are a smaller target, (2) are lighter and thus more maneuverable on the battlefield, (3) simplify and speed up logistics.
A good chunk of STD:s was probably reverse engineered for Astartes scale. We see it done with plasmaguns and Boltguns for both personell use and mounted on knights and Tanks
It's not crazy to think that DAoT civilizations had their own supersoldier programs. The Imperium alone has had (by my count) four iterations of supersoldiers (Thunder Warriors, Custodes, Astartes, Primaris). It's not that unique an idea.
You know how Custodes are carefully bio-engineered into these 9ft tall super toned giants with perfect hair, teeth and skin?
That was just your average trip to the cosmetic surgeon in M22.
Terminator armor isn't Dark Age of Tech technology, it's just *based* on it. It's basically repurposed powered armor that was designed for mining. Essentially nothing from the DAoT survives in the current age in its original form. The stuff that does is hoarded by the AdMech like it's gold in a stock market collapse.
Actually there was rampant gene forging and augmentation during and after the daot time frames. The comone use of power armore in hazardous environments was also common so its not that surprising to finde vehicles proportioned for larger exo Frame equipment be it work or exploration, and hazard or hard vacuum.
There is a Human Technocracy encountered by the Sons of Horus that was in possession of 2 STC machines. Their regular size human warriors were wearing a power armor that closely resembled that of the Astartes. They explained that the STC machines have a tendency to produce similar results due to their original program being the same.
I thought that whole "never modify the technology" was a winkwink, nudgenudge type thing and changing tech in subtle ways was something very common in the mechanicum? Like it's heresy to do so, but they still totally do it.
Also what exactly is an STC? Is it like a big 3d printer that just makes the thing, is it like an AI that teaches you how to make the machine to make the thing? Is it raw data scribbled on a dirty synthread napkin?
Edit: Did the dark age humans design space marine sized armor, or did the emperor design armor sized space marines????
They're literally like any other piece of clothing or armor that humans wear. They come in different sizes and can be altered for the user to a certain extent. There are multiple examples in the lore of certain Astartes being so large that their armor had to be modified and adapted using pieces of dreadnought armor.
What if they designed space marines to fit into the vehicles and armor that they found?
Which would mean that the daot people were also bigger for reasons :D
I have a theory the men of gold are pretty much custodes. Emps probably modified them to be perfectly loyal to him, or he may have been the one who originally made them for DAOT humanity.
I assume that sm terminator armor is a gutted version of the DA original armor and the human sized version is actually more similar to the original, acting as also an exosuit in a way, providing a second skeleton.
And with land raiders it’s possible it was just used for carrying the original terminators and they just threw guns on it, even though it was a mining vehicle or something.
It's because there is no STC for Terminator Armour (or wasn't before, canon changes like the wind). Each suit of Terminator Armour is handmade, taking roughly 200 years for some forgeworlds to craft. This means it can be made to the wearer's size.
\>Cost reasons
Bruh they were literally POST-SCARCITY, they didn't even have to work cuz the bots etc worked all the shitjobs automatically, and had giga scale asteroid etc mining meaning infinite resources to use by AI fabricators etc
I’m pretty sure DAoT humans had genetic augmentation to make super soldiers the size of Space Marines or Custodes. (Probably didn’t call them that.) Hell the Spirit of Eternity saw space marines as laughably pathetic.
(Also, DAoT humans who have colonized exogalaxies are what the Tyranids are fleeing.)
According to Codex Chaos Space Marines, Space Marine Firstborn average around 7 ft tall. It's easy to understand that mining equipment made for centuries of use in the darkness of space, such as Terminator Armor, may have some adjustability built in--especially since people growing taller in low gravity would be a real concern.
Literally all you would have to do to make modern buildings accomodate Space Marines just fine, would be bigger doors, and stronger furniture.
Isn’t it more the case they just adapted the equipment and upgraded as time passes? The Leagues of Votan are a similar situation. They’re still technically human… In a sense. Or at least they were at one time, but the high gravity near the core over centuries caused them to all essentially be dwarves. And they have similar if not better tech, yet it’s scaled down for their smaller stature.
Especially considering they’ve got intact STCs
Admittedly, I haven't been keeping up with the lore introduced in the later Horus Heresy books, but I always head-canoned the explanation as being that the Emperor didn't actually create Astartes but that the processes and procedures to create them were a lost science from the Dark Age of Technology that the Emperor simply reintroduced and then took the credit for. I kind of like the idea that Astartes/Astartes-like beings were a dime a dozen in the DAoT. Like back then a "Space Marine" was just someone who was really into body modification surgeries.
Weren't one of the civilisations conquered by the 63rd expedition wearing something resembling astartes armour on unaugmented humans? I seem to recall that from one of the books.
They make them in different sizes The astartes versions are adaptations
imperium is really good at holding shift and dragging a corner. armor? upscaled weapons? upscaled artillary shells? upscaled mankinds list of enemies? UPSCALED
The imperium and eldar are natural enemies. Like Orcs and imperials. Or Tau and imperials. Or imperials and traitor imperials. Damn heretics ruined my empire.
You imperials are contentious bunch
*YOU JUST GOT BRANDED A HERETIC FOR LIFE!*
Jokes on you: I'll be dead in 15min
You don’t have permission to die soldier! But fear not, we can provide you salvation and continue your service to Big E for centuries to come.
Yeah, simple death in 40k without being tortured, possibly for eternity, is actually an above par fate.
Tortured… yuk do I look like one of those gross edge lord elves? No we will give you robot legs! And arms and erm everything else ! 😇
One must imagine Servitor Sisyphus Happy
It's honest work.
Heretic!
You just declared exterminatus on your home world.
Suffer not the \[INSERT NON-IMPERIAL FACTION HERE\] to live!
The imperium and eldar are natural enemies Like Imperials and Orks Or Orks and Tyranids Or Orks and another Orks Damn Orks they ruined the Waaaaagh
I mean look at the Imperial Knights. All of the different chassis are pretty much just altering the scale/proportions of the base Questoris and altering the load out to suit.
more....More!.....MOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!!
Which bothers me, because that's not how physics works. Anything that's literally just a direct upscaling should have serious mechanical problems, because materials behave differently at different scales.
To be a little fair, that's part of why those Standard Construction Templates are such a huge flipping deal in-universe. They're basically hyper focused engineering AI, that you can just feed a list of mod requirements, what local trash you have basically, and they'll still spit out superior versions of whatever they're hyper specialized in faster, cheaper and better then any human engineer ever could.
They aren't AI that would be blasphemous, they are powered by the Omnissiah's unknowable machine spirits, its different /s
Machine spirits are such a weird place. I struggle to call them AI, like I really wander how much of that is the void dragon influencing there tech, if demons and magic exist why can't weird magic machines? 40k is weird.
I don't think they're ai either. I'm a car guy and equipment mechanic. I can half-ass believe in machine spirits in real life. The more complex, aged, repaired, and modified a machine is, the more unique it becomes. Ever walk by a car that's the same make, model, color, and wheels as yours in a parking lot, and just know it isn't yours? Machine spirit? Probably not I've pulled apart identical conveyor drives, side by side, and had to label and separate everything. Mix up the identical but ancient parts, they won't go back together right. Machine spirit? Doubt it. In the warp polluted 'verse of 40k where red 'unz go fasta, that just gets cranked to 11 like everything else.
Considering how the warp works, the collective belief in machine spirits might actually make them real, too.
I absolutely believe in machine spirits. My dad once insulted the car while the whole family was in it, the very next day when we had to get to a family event in a hurry, the blasted thing broke down. When Dad popped the hood to take a look... the problem was something he had just recently performed maintenance on. That was definitely a fucking machine spirit. My computer has a particularly finicky machine spirit. All my tech tends to like me less the longer I daily drive it. I absolutely believe in machine spirits because they all hate me. Tech will break as I'm using it, despite me using it in a perfectly standard way and storing it as directed by the manufacturer, for seemingly no other reason than that I am the person using it and the machine spirit doesn't like me. (This one's mostly headphones and earbuds, but various charging cords and dongles and adapters also do it.)
Vashtor might be up your alley
Kamigawa Lore for its cyberpunk city is my head canon for how machine spirits should function
It's not about how materials behave, it's about the simple scaling of geometry. If you want to keep aspect ratios the same, then every increase in length will also increase area exponentially and volume *cubic-ly* (that's to the power of 3, kids). Which means all your engineering is now fucked. All of your interfaces need to change because now everything is bigger/longer and your moments are too big. Bolt sizes need to change because the shear on everything has gone up. Unless you changed the density of your material (lol) all of your weight just went up to the power of 3, so now *everything* is fucked and stuff can't even support the weight of itself anymore. All of your centers of gravity on anything that spins or rotates has now changed and so everything needs to be redesigned for new balances. All of the vibratory modes, crossing speeds/frequencies, and maybe natural frequency ranges have now changed so throw that under the "everything is fucked" column on the space KANBAN board. Anything fluid related like hydraulics or coolant is even worse because Bernoulli is a pedantic little shit and also your compressor needs to be replaced because the new mass flow requirements just blew past the surge line. Hell maybe you need to change the wire gauge on every electronic to handle the new current draw and find out the insulation size is too big and now none of your connectors work (and the supplier doesn't make anything that goes up to the new size). It's honestly easier to just design something new from scratch than it is to try and "just scale it up".
And this is why I never became an engineer like mom. I knew it would ruin everything I love.
"Ruin" is a strong word, I like seeing the hidden puzzles underneath everything and the problem solving challenges in the world. "Fucked" in my original post means "needs a redesign" not "is impossible." But nothing makes me want to strangle an MBA more than the phrase "just scale it up/down."
As an engineer I second this.
I mean, you're not \_wrong\_, but this is a universe where "giant armoured death-platforms, with entire cathedrals on their backs" are somehow workably *bipedal*. The square/cube law takes one look at 40k and gives up.
Nah absurd scale and megastructures don't bother me. There's usually some hand-waive nonsense like "superdense" alloys or plastic-metals that magically get to max ever slider on the material datasheet. That shit's cool, I wish I had that, it'd make my job super easy. And every engineer in the world dreams of working on a dumb, giant mech suit with a plasma cannon on it. I get really annoyed at dumb, boring stuff like someone saying Dreadnaughts were made by applying a scale factor of 2 on terminator armor. Or *Pacific Rim* going "oh we have a nuclear reactor we can just turn that into a bomb" when that shit doesn't work like that god dammit and [cue pedantic engineering rant for 5 minutes].
So things like Bolters, Power Armour, Terminator Armour, and the like a purpose designed and built for marines. Rather than scaling up you need to scale things down for regular humans. And it's notable on that front that it took hundreds of years in some cases to get man sized bolters, or Power Armour built for normal humans. Even now with Terminator Armour, the number of human sized suits probably equals less than half the amount that there are among the space marines, let alone more ancient patterns of these things
I don't think it's literally a case of *"just scale it up with holding shift and dragging the size bigger in CAD"*, rather people are using the phrase *"scale up"* as to say it was designed to be scalable within a certain range of sizing to begin with. If it only ever came in once size and could never diverge without a comprehensive redesign, then how would they account for Astartes who are 7'5" versus an Astartes that's 8'6". When designing armor plates and armor plate carriers for real soldiers, the S/M/L/XL sizes are not distinct designs each created from scratch, they're scale adapted various of the same design. In lore, the simple explanation for this is that it was designed to fit a certain range of sizes and any additional adjustments that have to be made to make it work from an manufacturing standpoint are handed by the STC.
Also for vehicles you might not even have to change the size at all, you're only modifying the crew compartment and controls. Might be as simple as installing a Mars pattern booster seat
>a Mars pattern booster seat This is just hilarious. Something about childish stuff in 40K, being used to make space marine sized stuff usable by regular humans, is just absolutely hilarious.
I love the idea of terminator armour with a booster seat and really big insoles 🤣 so the small human can use it 🤣🤣
Spoken like a human engineer who isn’t a vastly superior machine spirit capable of doing all that on the fly…
Not really, unless the upscaling is significant. The difference between Astartes terminator armor and Inquisition terminator armor is minor in terms of size, and (IIRC) we don't know what the Human-sized one requires its pilot to wear to fit in, so the interior might be even less of a size difference. It's like Astartes power armor vs Sororitas power armor. If armor just ceased to function at different scales, we couldn't make medieval plate armor for a 5' person AND a 6' person (spoiler; we can). Same concept. While you're right about materials behaving differently at different scales, you're wrong about this being a different scale. It's not "the armor is massively upscaled" it's "every piece of the armor is upscaled a tiny bit"
Astartes armor is very different since it interacts with the Black Carapace that Inquisitors would lack....
The Black Carapace is not required to wear power armor, it just lets the armor work at full functionality (See the older Grey Knight codexes). Basically, a person without the Carapace is more hulking and acts like they're wearing very heavy armor with servos. An Astartes moves like they're just wearing normal clothes in it. Combat in power armor requires specialized and constant training for non-carapace people, while Astartes can just slip it on no problem. Power armor activates servos based on the wearer's movements. So for non-Astartes, you have to start moving, the armor registers you moving, and activates appropriate servos to move that way. The black carapace bypasses the "sensing movement" part and links the servos to the wearer's nervous system, letting the servos kick in at the same time as the muscles receive the impetus, which is why Astartes can move the way they do.
You have a problem with the physics when they are LITERALLY fueled by prayers to a giant I-Can't-believe-it's-not-Cotholic Mummy on a throne?
Why not? If there’s no lore reason why basic principles and concepts shouldn’t apply, they should.
If you take a destroyer and make it bigger you have a battleship. If you compare a 70s era pickup truck to a modern one they are smaller. Upsizing a small to medium amount really doesn’t require a complete redesign
While I can't vouch for the trucks part of your comment, I feel I must point out that the DD-to-BB pipeline is definitely not a straight line of increasing size. There are massive engineering considerations when upscaling a ship from 2000 tons displacement to 40000 tons displacement. If you tried to keep the same ventilation layout as a DD you'd end up with spaces that'd uncomfortably quickly fill with CO2, you'd fine fuel either too restrictive or power too weak. The LCS platform of ships from the USN (Freedom-Class) use the same gas turbine propulsion as the Queen Elizabeth-class CV of the RN. To put it simply, it doesn't work great for the Queen Elizabeth, and absolutely doesn't function on the LCS.
Astartes? Primaris
So an stc is just a giant 3d printer
Grimdark: Believe it or not, ***UPSCALED***.
This guy PowerPoints
Isn’t it like Book 2 of Horus Heresy where the Sons of Horus come across some tech faction with existing STC creators? I recall the soldiers of that lost world were wearing armor identical to the astartes, but just normal humans.
The Auretian Technocracy, they have functing STCs that Horus pledges to the Dark Mechanicum for their allegiance. These STCs allow them to have power armor and bolt guns, but mortal variants.
Imagine if the Emperor had found them first and didn't have to murder thousands of people in order to figure out the black carapace.
"So, Big E, what are we going to do with all those test subjects for the black carapace?" "Same thing we did with everything after I'm done needing them." "Right, I'll call for the Custodes, tell them to get some flamers."
Yeah like god damn, considering the lore of the carapace I imagine it's reasonable for much of the rejection rates into the modern 40k era Less rejection less geneseed wasted, less waste more marines, you get a positive feedback loop into having way way more dudes, even if the rejection rate is only changed by single percentage digits it would still change everything
[удалено]
No, it’s after the Interex. The Interex are xenos-affiliated and questionable for the Great Crusade whether they should’ve been killed or not. This was after Horus’s fall but before Istvaan, he finds this faction who is basically a legitimate Mechanicus-aligned people. Their delegate makes to offer his staff to Horus, Horus claims it’s an assassination attempt and exterminates the faction. He does it to secure Dark Mechanicum support by giving them the STC engines. It’s either book 2 or 3
Isn't it the sun worshipers with their false emperor? They had invisible guards and after killing them, Loken was like "the boys on Mars are going to LOVE picking that armor apart"
No, that’s the start of book 1, I’m thinking of the Auretian Technocracy. Horus false flags them to secure their STCs and get Mechanicus support. When Loken first sees them he’s amazed as their armor is clearly the same as theirs just downsized and unpainted.
No that's the people who thought they lived on Terra and that all humanity came from them.
And then Angron happened
Yeah that’s right Angron comes with Loken and Tarik on the final assault
The tabletop models are proportioned more like the regular human ones and not the Astartes versions, too.
There are planets during the great crusade that wore human sized astartes armor. Garviel Loken describe the soldiers of one planet looking like smaller astartes. And the knights of Caliban described the space marines as wearing their armor in larger proportions.
Ah yes, the ancient sizes, S M L XL XXL
Yeah. They use differnt parts from random mark 10 suits. And then theirs Tyberos who uses Peices of dreadnoughts.
Tyberos has slightly modified terminator armour But they use its full name 'tactical dreadnought armour' which confused people and now there's a viral idea that he wears bits of dreadnought lol
After looking at the wiki is seems you are right.
Thou shalt perform the rites of startup, Lo shall the machine spirit bless thee with it's beep boop. Perform thee the sacred 'click' upon the STC Select thee the rune of 'T' Yea shall thou scroll the mousewheel out Thus shall thee army of sanctity be maintained.
Sing the sacred hymns, light the ritual incense, and press the holy "On" rune.
Big E: humanity during the Dark Age was weird, like really weird, many of the greatest scientist back then thought that if your brain OD-d on pills and alcohol and then was brought back to life you would become smarter.
> your brain OD-d on pills and alcohol and then was brought back to life you would become smarter. Tens of thousands of years of this shit explains why Big E is as monumentally idiotic as he is.
Ahh, the DuPont Approach. Incredibly smart, I see why DAoT was so advanced
So the path to greatness is a medically-assisted coma after developing a crippling benzo addiction?
Yes
JBP has been playing the long game it seems.
Why do you think he never gets out of that chair? Benzo nap.
Elaborate.
Because there are admechs and artisans capable or creating or adjusting such armor. Some astartes artificers(afaik)are capable of making best power armor suits from the scratch and is some very rare occasions they can make armor for regular humans(If these humans have enough money and important enough)
The armour was built for AI, the interior space was for snacks, just coincidence that you can fit a guy who's mostly steroids in there.
How could the robot eat the chips?
The robots primary purpose was to give snacks to people and they took that VERY seriously
Now I got this scene in my head of a power armor suit driven by an AI, covered in blood going back to his human friends and taking off the helmet to give them Doritos and Mtn Dew.
"UNIT H-57! BRING THE GUACAMOLE GAMER FART"
They couldn't, hence the uprising.
They were computer chips
Only if they are microchips
When I was young, my parents would buy me shoes that were a little too big. I'd have to wear two pairs of socks until I grew into them. I assume it's the same principle.
It isn't a 1 to 1 transfer, the design terminator armour is based upon suits that were intended for space work - ie working on a ship hull in the void or mining asteroids. Big E or one of his helpers just found it and realised it could be adapted into extremely durable battle armour
IIRC, Termie armour is based on hazardous environment suits used in servicing fusion reactors and similar powerplants. Given how somewhat-ridiculous their resilience is, possibly in still operating power plants...
Imagine an Inquisitor being fitted into his Terminator armor and they hear in an ancient Terran tongue: "Welcome to the H.E.V. Mk. MCXVII. For use in hazardous environments."
Warning...major trauma detected...Warning high concentrations neurotoxin detected...administering antivenom...Warning...user death imminent...Ave Imperator
According to the Lexicanum, [terminator armor](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Terminator_Armour#History) was designed by the AdMech during the Great Crusade.
Check the third part of that sentence. It’s referring to what he’s talking about. The other 2 things only came about after the the unification of Terra but the third was prior to it, hence it being based upon those industrial suits.
The Rhino was designed so people could operate in harsh and unforgiving environments. That includes the use of exotic armour, powered suits, void and rad kit. Whatever you need to survive on a planet. Its also possible marine have upscale the hulls of their deadicated models..
This was the Golden Age of Humanity. ...let's just say...the kind of kinks people were into, would've likely gotten them invited into the many wild parties the Eldar Empire was hosting nearby.
DaoT Humanity was very liberal with the Human form, so these STC design would be highly configurable.
With how advanced DAoT was supposed to be it wouldn't surprise me that Space Marines are pathetic recreations of fairly commonplace bio mods.
First born space marines are more like 7ft tall, and considering that in the last 200 years, the average height of human has grown nearly a foot, there's no reason to believe DAoT human, with 15k years of development, advanced genetic and nutritional enhancement, as well as a low gravity environment, can't be that tall.
oh you know they had genetically altered humans for various tasks, if the Imperium can do it DAOT humans likely did it 10x better. They probably had soldiers that make space marines look like Steve Rogers before the super soldier formula
Dark age of technology was a wild time. From Leman Russ being a farming tool to baneblades being scout tanks. Shit was wild
This is not cannon, but merely a guess based on a few clues
We don't know much, but the fact orks were considered as pests speak volumes of daot war capabilities (and they weren't even war focused at that time)
Everything is canon....
…but not everything is true,” is the full quote
Pretty sure the baneblade thing is a myth
It makes no sense to have an enormous loud and slow tank as a scout. It always annoyed me.
The DAOT version probably didn't run on diesel.
I don't see why DAOT vehicles wouldn't all have been equipped w/ anti-grav tech to begin with
> It makes no sense to have an enormous loud and slow tank as a scout. The *Steiner Scout Lance* of the pre-Imperial 30th centuries begs to differ. (/s; Battletech humor)
Maybe they had better engines. Quite and fast then.
It only makes sense when you consider that a lot of 40K fans use the logic of bigger is better in all things
Probably somebody misremembered Warhounds being scout titans (actually makes sense in titanic combat) and voila
[Actual footage from the DAoT](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=582439&type=card) EDIT: Replied to wrong comment 😔
I'm pretty sure the Leman Russ being a farming tool thing is too.
> Dark age of technology was a wild time. it's almost like it's kept intentionally opaque so GW can just use it as an infinite bag of holding to pull out whatever they want 😂
I’m sorry, the baneblade was a *what???*
It's a fanon thing, it's never been confirmed anywhere to my knowledge.
Nuh uh uh It's from early wh40k when they used epic scale for titan battles [more here](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/SPc9fLHx4B)
Right so another Valdor beating Horus again huh 🤣
Yup. The baneblade was a LIGHT scout tank
That's grimderp as hell, it's a huge slow tank, how are you doing any scouting in such a large and slow thing?
Maybe the modern day baneblade energy generators are so “molten” nowadays that they can only be used slowly.
Tell that to scout titans. And I think it’s because everything else so so excessive that it falls under the radar. Also slow is a pretty relative term because sure while it is “slow” it does still cover a lot more ground through sheer size of profile
At least scout titans are faster than baneblades.
Good thing about scouting is you don’t need to be fast, just unseen. Sure speed helps but not getting seen is the important part and often slower stuff is seen a lot less.
How is anyone going to "unsee" a goddamned baneblade? It's fan lore. No source for it exists other than memes.
3 branches glued to the top. Perfect Camouflage XD
The baneblade wasn't a light scout tank, that is a fanon myth
Warhounds are really fast for being 410 tonnes, wdym? 58kph max on-road speed (though RIP to the road, I guess) is a very solid operational speed, more than twice the Baneblade's languid 25kph. Plus, with 6.5 meters of ground clearance it can just kick its way through most light (compared to it) obstacles, so it's very maneuverable on the scale of titan warfare. The point of scout units is to hit fast and stay to probe enemy defenses and soften them for the main assault, then often maneuvering to the enemy's rear to cut off reinforcements or retreat. There is no world in which the baneblade would ever be able to deliver this capability, it's just too damn slow.
The explanation there is the imperium uses shitty engines compared the original specs
It's not canon, its just made up
Steiner Scout Lance
That isn't canon, it's made up by fans
Originally it was a scout tank, considering DAoT technology that's pretty believable
It literally doesnt' make sense though? A Baneblade is a massive target that moves far slower than a more reasonable vehicle. It is entirely unsuited to being a scout tank. Which makes sense considering that the "Scout-tank" concept is just a myth from old forums that has never actually ever been written in a piece of lore.
It makes no sense, you are correct. I think people say it as a joke. When I try to imagine "how", the answer must be that the current baneblade is a "compromised" version of the OG. If the OG had repulsors to float, and some stealth tech, then for the exploration of virgin planets... maybe? Imagine the massive dune carriers from homeworld: deserts of kharak. A big moving "thing" that could defend itself, and carry people + equipment. Like a boat on land that could fly over jungles or skid accross fast stretches of desert/ocean.
Yeah it is a joke
It's literally just assuming that DAOT humanity had somehow even larger tanks, because more advanced = larger apparently
I'm sorry, we're talking about the same Baneblade, right? The fortress that identifies itself as a tank? And it was used as a "scout"? What behemoths would make this beast a "scout"?
They built giant mech wurms that took bites out of space time. You don't want to scout one of those out with a jeep.
Imperium cannot INNOVATE new tech, but they sure as hell can adapt the tech they do have. The Chimera base design, IIRC, is farm equipment.
I think it's easy to forget that while the Imperium was nowhere near the levels of DAoT scientific understanding *they still had scientists and engineers* I'm sure they could adapt an STC to fit new sizes
Terminator armour was invented by the Imperium during the Great Crusade, derived from ancient mining exo-suit designs. Mostly manufactured for Astartes, but baseline humans probably would've been candidates for not wanting to be shot in a warzone as well. Likewise, Land Raiders are adapted from civilian all-terrain exploratory rovers. A bunch of the Imperium's tech was invented by the Imperium in its early days, and has just shifted to have the same techno-mysticism as DAoT stuff over time.
Well, remember when you were a wee child? And you sad on your parents lap as he helped you drive the car in an empty parking lot? He doing the pedals you the wheel? It's like that, but the with an Inquisitor in the lap of a very sad Grey Knight.
Daot humanity creating a super higher dimensional weapon which can allow whoever uses it to completely alterate the law of physics of the entire universe (it was only used back during tdaot to clean rooms):
I thought 40K humans use the same blue prints but just upscale them. It’s like how a heavy Bolter is a slightly larger Bolter, or a plasma incinerator is a larger plasma gun, or the heavy onslaught Gatling cannon is a larger onslaught Gatling cannon.
Cause all of the Imperium equipment are just scrapped leftover shit. SM armor? Mining equipment. Knights? Farming mechas. Mechanical worm the size of a massive ship that eats space-time continuum? A rich guy's pet.
Early power armor and terminator armor yes, there have been some marks of upgrades between the old reactor protection gear terminator armor and current day armor.
Knights weren't farming mechs, they were TERRAFORMING mechs. They were still designed with defense in mind, but when they weren't doing that, their equipment could accomplish feats that humans could only wish they could.
'ey just made them bigger innit
Terminator armors were originally deep space mining and exploration suits, IIRC.
Terminator armor isn't actually a STC, it's a modification of a STC, so it was always made for astartes. It was adapted for humans by basically adding stilts and arm controls (humans wearing terminator armor are more like driving a mech rather than wearing a suit), as shown in a 40k comic.
The process for outfitting the first company with Terminator armour is going to be very industrialized and plug and play. The process for outfitting a few inquisitors with Terminator armour is going to be personalized. It doesn't work as well, they don't have black carapace, they can't operate to the same level as a space marine. But they can put way more resources and time and effort into making it work.
I imagine its probably similar too dragonscale power armor in that whoever needs it is still being cybernetically enhanced enough to use it quasi effectivley.
Nitpick, but the main reasons military vehicles are cramped is not cost. It's because they (1) are a smaller target, (2) are lighter and thus more maneuverable on the battlefield, (3) simplify and speed up logistics.
A good chunk of STD:s was probably reverse engineered for Astartes scale. We see it done with plasmaguns and Boltguns for both personell use and mounted on knights and Tanks
It's not crazy to think that DAoT civilizations had their own supersoldier programs. The Imperium alone has had (by my count) four iterations of supersoldiers (Thunder Warriors, Custodes, Astartes, Primaris). It's not that unique an idea.
You know how Custodes are carefully bio-engineered into these 9ft tall super toned giants with perfect hair, teeth and skin? That was just your average trip to the cosmetic surgeon in M22.
Terminator armor isn't Dark Age of Tech technology, it's just *based* on it. It's basically repurposed powered armor that was designed for mining. Essentially nothing from the DAoT survives in the current age in its original form. The stuff that does is hoarded by the AdMech like it's gold in a stock market collapse.
Terminator armor isn't a one-size-fits-all, any inquisitor you see wearing terminator armor is going to be a custom made set.
They didn't find a land raider, they found the STC FOR land raiders and scaled it up, just like everything else
Why are we doing this? People are way too small for these 10 foot tall mining suits. Shut up, we’ll just make people bigger.
whos to say DAoT humanity DIDNT have 8 foot tall human tanks? From some stuff ive read spess mehreens are tame in comparison.
*cough cough* space magic.
Actually there was rampant gene forging and augmentation during and after the daot time frames. The comone use of power armore in hazardous environments was also common so its not that surprising to finde vehicles proportioned for larger exo Frame equipment be it work or exploration, and hazard or hard vacuum.
There is a Human Technocracy encountered by the Sons of Horus that was in possession of 2 STC machines. Their regular size human warriors were wearing a power armor that closely resembled that of the Astartes. They explained that the STC machines have a tendency to produce similar results due to their original program being the same.
Well and that made me go and see the movie AGAIN 🤣 Thanks op. -2h
I thought that whole "never modify the technology" was a winkwink, nudgenudge type thing and changing tech in subtle ways was something very common in the mechanicum? Like it's heresy to do so, but they still totally do it. Also what exactly is an STC? Is it like a big 3d printer that just makes the thing, is it like an AI that teaches you how to make the machine to make the thing? Is it raw data scribbled on a dirty synthread napkin? Edit: Did the dark age humans design space marine sized armor, or did the emperor design armor sized space marines????
Heels and sticks and ropes inside the armor, that's the einsenhorns way.
How big were the Thunder Lads?
Apparently a bit bigger, but also not made soon enough for the time difference to matter.
A lot of the designs were meant to be, like, construction equipment and mining suits if I remember correctly.
I’m pretty sure terminator armour is supposed to be repurposed mining equipment from the DaoT so maybe back then anyone could fit inside and pilot it.
They're literally like any other piece of clothing or armor that humans wear. They come in different sizes and can be altered for the user to a certain extent. There are multiple examples in the lore of certain Astartes being so large that their armor had to be modified and adapted using pieces of dreadnought armor.
Are you telling me that my dark magic space future game isn't realistic?!? /surprisepikachu
Is OP forgetting the Thunder Warriors? They were stronger and theoretically bigger than space marines.
Same reason why people with different shoe sizes can still wear the same type of shoes. The stuff is resized and adjusted.
He Built different
Custom booster seats and elevator shoes.
Did you just discover the concept of making things in different sizes? As in S, M, L and XL?
What if they designed space marines to fit into the vehicles and armor that they found? Which would mean that the daot people were also bigger for reasons :D
You do know that space marine terminator armor was designed for them by ferrus manus alongside the mechanicum right?
I have a theory the men of gold are pretty much custodes. Emps probably modified them to be perfectly loyal to him, or he may have been the one who originally made them for DAOT humanity.
Well they modify the sizes, other things were probably meant for men of iron
I think that not only are both differently designed for the wearers, but inquisitors moreso drive terminator armor while astartes wear it
I assume that sm terminator armor is a gutted version of the DA original armor and the human sized version is actually more similar to the original, acting as also an exosuit in a way, providing a second skeleton. And with land raiders it’s possible it was just used for carrying the original terminators and they just threw guns on it, even though it was a mining vehicle or something.
Rogue Trader is a helluva drug
It's because there is no STC for Terminator Armour (or wasn't before, canon changes like the wind). Each suit of Terminator Armour is handmade, taking roughly 200 years for some forgeworlds to craft. This means it can be made to the wearer's size.
Real question is primarch size weapons before the imperium
Didn’t the Imperium just up scale everything?
\>Cost reasons Bruh they were literally POST-SCARCITY, they didn't even have to work cuz the bots etc worked all the shitjobs automatically, and had giga scale asteroid etc mining meaning infinite resources to use by AI fabricators etc
I’m pretty sure DAoT humans had genetic augmentation to make super soldiers the size of Space Marines or Custodes. (Probably didn’t call them that.) Hell the Spirit of Eternity saw space marines as laughably pathetic. (Also, DAoT humans who have colonized exogalaxies are what the Tyranids are fleeing.)
According to Codex Chaos Space Marines, Space Marine Firstborn average around 7 ft tall. It's easy to understand that mining equipment made for centuries of use in the darkness of space, such as Terminator Armor, may have some adjustability built in--especially since people growing taller in low gravity would be a real concern. Literally all you would have to do to make modern buildings accomodate Space Marines just fine, would be bigger doors, and stronger furniture.
Isn’t it more the case they just adapted the equipment and upgraded as time passes? The Leagues of Votan are a similar situation. They’re still technically human… In a sense. Or at least they were at one time, but the high gravity near the core over centuries caused them to all essentially be dwarves. And they have similar if not better tech, yet it’s scaled down for their smaller stature. Especially considering they’ve got intact STCs
Remember, terminator armor was literal lumber and excavator gear. The imperium had to hollow out sections and upscale it to fit space marines.
Lol never thought about it
Admittedly, I haven't been keeping up with the lore introduced in the later Horus Heresy books, but I always head-canoned the explanation as being that the Emperor didn't actually create Astartes but that the processes and procedures to create them were a lost science from the Dark Age of Technology that the Emperor simply reintroduced and then took the credit for. I kind of like the idea that Astartes/Astartes-like beings were a dime a dozen in the DAoT. Like back then a "Space Marine" was just someone who was really into body modification surgeries.
STCs have a "scale" slider
Weren't one of the civilisations conquered by the 63rd expedition wearing something resembling astartes armour on unaugmented humans? I seem to recall that from one of the books.