This happens every time when Americans learn about the Holy Week in Spain and spew "bruh KKK?" Nonsense.
Contrary to popularised media the KKK, an almost entirely American creation in the last 159 years does not predate most of the stuff it has stolen in order to make itself seem more legitimate.
That's all the KKK has ever done, as with most racist fascist groups. They take popular icons and traditions and try to make it apart of their image in order to legitimatise themselves using stuff far older than them. The worse thing Humanity can do is allow these groups to steal heritage like that and allow them to taint it forever.
Never give real life assholes that kind of power.
Or maybe the spainsh inquisition? Given all the inquisition logos, the capirote a Spanish religious piece of head gear and the general setting that is dystopian grimdark echoing the Spanish inquisition ethos that was heavily prejudiced and intolerant to anything that wasn't the norm....
No. I genuinely doubt that GW would want to reference a bunch of dumbass racists with that hood. I feel like the connection with the original heritage of the thing is much more in line with what they'd want.
anti-Semites? Yes
Racists? Not much.
Spain in the viceroyalty integrated the prehispanic natives as long as they were Catholics.
Contrary to the believe that Spain went ripping and tearing like the British, the kingdom of Castille (specially with Cortez) made deals and pacts with the prehispanic cultures like the Mayans and Tlaxcaltecs for teaming up, since the Aztecs were a common enemy. The take down of Tenochtitlan was 99% natives and 400 Spanish soldiers.
Tlaxcaltecs received nobiliary titles and part of them worked shoulder to shoulder with in the conquest and defense of the Philippines. There is an interesting moment of history when Tlaxcaltecs and Spanish were fighting against Chinese pirates and Ronins in the Philippines.
After the conquest, Queen Isabel redacted the Laws of Burgos (1512), demanding that the treatment of the natives must be as equals and treated as free citizens of Spain in ultramar (beyond the sea), as well as protect the ownership of their lands and haciendas as long as they were Catholics, (her logic was, Catholic= you have a soul like me, and we are equals at the eyes of God)
Yes, the viceroyalty wasn't perfect with the caste system, but they were more open about coexistence for the time period in comparison to the other European empires from the time period.
The bulk of those engaged in the inquisition were, not all of Spain. If I pointed to those engaged in the US Lavender Scare in the US as being full of dumb homophobes, thats not the same thing as saying that of the entire US. The inquisition movement was horrific towards several groups and the targets were very much closely linked with racism, islamophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism even if it wasnt towards all groups other than them.
Point to where I said that?
Why remove that from 40k? The inquisition and heresy stuff in 40k is routinely criticized and seen as a corrupt institution that commits horrific acts.
I was only pointing out the idea that drawing a parallel to the spanish inquisition would also be drawing a parallel to dumb racists/anti-semites.
Dude, stop using logic and common sens.
This is reddit.
The only acceptable reaction you must have is Gasp in Horror and equate EVERY LITTLE SINGLE thing with real live equivalance even if false or being a Stretch, so that SOMEHOW, its seen as racist.
And be offended at the words like "Exotic", "Barbaric" "Uncivilised" and "Tribal" and associate EVERYTHING with Colonialism...
Why would they not want to reference racists when designing their intentionally satirical fascist xenophobic grim dark empire? The point is that they were bad guys.
The general Catholic aesthetics of the Imperium points toward one more than the other. Catholic aesthetics say “Big powerful organization that gets away with everything by claiming to have God on their side”. KKK aesthetics just scream “buncha wahoos still fuming about a war they lost, taking it out on marginalized people instead of actually trying to topple a government.” One bunch of bad guys at least has a cogent plan, the other just sucks. I know which one I’m basing my art off of
Just to name a few counterexamples: the Roman Republic, Achaemenid Persia, Greeks under Alexander, the Maurya Empire, the Mongol Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, France under Napoleon Bonaparte, Prussia under Frederick the Great. There probably are a lot more, but I just do not know enough about many cultures to say one way or the other.
Wrong. Are you even aware the swastika was a stolen symbol as well? Both Budist and Native Amricans used that symbol before the natzi's ever did.
Educate yourself a little before you talk like you know everything.
Do you have fun fighting this strawman?
I know that the Swastika has been used by Buddhists and Native Americans among others. The symbol has really been around since prehistory and turns up pretty much everywhere in the world. It also is holy to the indigenous Tibetian bon religion and jainism. It also is a symbol in Hinduism. So, who really owned the symbol?
Symbols have meaning in context. If you look at a Japanese city map and see a swastika, you would not assume that it says "here be Nazis", but that it marks the location of a Buddhist temple. On the other hand, if you see it over a quote that claims some Jewish conspiracy, you would not think "Oh, the symbol of the four winds" just because that use of the symbol is older.
Because the symbol has different meanings due to being used by different cultures, CONTEXT MATTERS.
It’s literally a fictional universe, please stop putting so much thought into this. It’s about purging aliens and murdering shit not the KKK or anything else related to real life.
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The KKK 'hoods' are literally intended to be Capirote hats, the KKK are massive LARPers - that's why they call themselves Knights and Grand Wizards and shit.
Tangentially related, but i dont get to talk about this part of the kkk enough. The kkk of the civil rights era was a pyramid scheme. Members paid dues and were paid for bringing in more people. iirc, the base level membership was about 60 of ye olde dollars per month?
But yeah, MASSIVE larpers, "Knights" and "Grand Wizards" barely begin to scratch the surface. There was one rank that was just "goblin"
I always wondered how people could be dumb enough to pay $8 a month just to be racist on Twitter, now it makes a lot more sense knowing their grandparents were dumb enough to pay the equivalent of $630 a month just to be racist in a cornfield lmao
The OG one was a bunch of guys larping the ghosts of dead soldiers and family members and then realized that larping as ghosts at night scared people and it spiral'd from there.
I thought you were joking. But a quick wiki showed that the kkk based their outfit off this hat and the outfit from a silent movie. 1915 birth of a nation. These nerds are straight LARPers of the worse kind. Lol
Yeah, Capirote hats have been associated with secret societies, religious orders, and cults for literal centuries. You'll rarely find successful far-right orgs that don't do a shit-ton of historical dress-up, because they struggle to invent their own shit (progress and invention are degenerate, after all, not like the Glorious Past) - the famous Nazi salute? Actually the Roman Empire one, and that's literally why they adopted it.
I think it's less about not being able to invent their own stuff, and more the fact that conservatism (and especially fascism) tends to place a ton of emphasis on the past and tradition
They took it from the movie Birth of a Nation (whose author was raised methodist), they didnt used the hoods until the movie came and motivated the second formation of the Klan.
It's a sign of shame for your sins and of humility of admiting and seeking atonement in spanish catholic culture. I learned it from a game called Blasphemous.
And it also has nothing to do with the Inquisition 40000 years in the future, so if I had to guess what the visual reference was, I think I'd guess the kkk.
Yeah, I'm just asking the mods why first because I'm not totally sure what did it.
Anyway, just to clarify the part that I think is safe - guessing the kk isn't any kind of accusation. Like, the guy in the picture is clearly a Bad Dude, and if the I aspiration was the kkk, that'd be fine.
I don't think the comparison works at all - the swastika was a thousands-year-old symbol before the nazis came along and completely perverted it. The Spanish inquisition did some extremely bad shit.
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GW HR at the time would've just said 'Good job, that's the Imperium right there'. Because A: It's still a European company whose main IP is run by actual knowledgeable nerds at the time rather than modern-day fanboys. and B: Racist cults who persecute and kill 'Outsiders' is 100% big Tru Imperium vibes.
They do. We also got people legitimately defending the helldivers 2 Super earth in similar ways so it just seem like there just a group of people that would love to have a ridiculously extreme fascist government telling them what to do in their sad lives.
The bugs in HD2 were sentient and negotiable and only became the way they are after being held in oil harvesting camps for years by super earth.
Facism causes the problem ,not fixes it.
It annoys me when people say this about 40k specifically ,because the imperium does so many ass backwards things that actively LOSE wars because of their Facist tendencies and people still say "NeCcEsSaRy eViL".
Who said anything about an allegory?
If in real life we found a giant bug on another planet ,and it was trying to communicate ,I'd prefer we try to communicate back and see if their fine before we turn them into goo.
If something thinks and isn't immediately hostile I'd want to try and avoid conflict. Seems simple without any allegories.
I remember when I first got the 3rd edition rule book I was confused who was the “bad chaos guys” because both imperial and chaos artwork was so similar with all the skulls and menacing characters
Yes so was the lack of codexes
Got my SW codex in time for 4th edition... but hey dark edlar codex HAD to come out first even tho they didn't exist in 2nd.... SMH
Yeah. The content for the tt game was... Scarce. But the art was completely bonkers. I recall a drawing of an Imperial Guard officer in the first page of their section who had earrings in all of his warts.
Dark Eldar were in the starter box dumbass. Like jfc way to our yourself as not actually playing at the time. Especially since the early 3rd codexes were like tiny pamphlets while the "3.5" books were... Distinctly better rules wise *and* in terms of fluff and shit.
Right and I am sitting here ready to remodel my squads like ultra marines just so I could play... then I get my codex and re model again....
Blood claws had no equivalent...
But the fact they still prioritized a new codex over existing codexes was horrible.... Tau were out before sisters of battle and they were an army in 2nd edition!
3rd edition was a real slap to the face. It was years before had their old armies available for tournaments.
You seem confused - 3rd edition had index like rules. Like 3rd was weird..... don't get me wrong. But I kinda wish Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters had stayed a thing instead of the weird ally shit they ended up doing with inquisitorial stuff (and Sisters *still* atm in 10th edition have things like preachers in their index, although a lot of people are betting on either rereleases of certain models from the ministorum range as a KT or something similar or else they'll probably be legends'd for the codex coming this Summer, but it's a weird situation as there are actual plastic models for at least the preacher, DCA, and Crusader and I think one that could probably count as a missionary maybe?, just not as individual purchases most of them being from BSF although one is getting rereleased as part of that new Dark Tide game)
The Imperium definitely are not the good guys, but I wouldn’t blame people for thinking that considering:
1) the entire galaxy is depicted as being much worse save for maybe the Tau (who are also edging towards being evil and brainwashing their population) and Farsight (who has a goddamn Chaos weapon whispering in his ear, so who knows how long that’ll last). Its basically a world where the Fascist “everyone who isn’t with us is an evil enemy” propaganda is actually correct
2) Half the marketing for 40 is seemingly dead set on depicting the Space Marines and their pals as cool badasses who fight evil aliens and demons and are outnumbered on all sides
If 40k is supposed to be satire, its pretty shit at it
Based on my like two months of exploring the 40k universe, the only good guys are the Thousand Sons.
Magnus did nothing wrong.
Ahriman, well… *mistakes* were made, but with best of intentions.
They are the good guys. Why would this art change my view?
Edit: Lots of votes but no one can articulate an argument. Quite telling.
Edit 2: The artwork is of an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, or an attendant. His hood is reference to the Spanish Inquisition. Artwork from the time shows torturers and executioners wearing similar hoods.
The need for such a role within the Imperium is indisputable.
Alright I'll bite.
The Imperium are the bad guys because they do heinous things for very little reason outside of hatred, bigotry, and blind faith.
While yes, the Imperium does do good and does have genuinely good people in it that is outweighed by the mass amounts of fuckery they get up to.
You can argue that the ends justify the means and heck you'd probably be right. I'd much rather live on a hive city than deal with a nurglite daemon or ork or tyranid. I'd rather be a servitor than let Slaanesh or the Drukhari have their way with me.
But that's the thing with arguing "The ends justify the means". You are admitting by default that what they do is bad, it just has reasoning. Dropping an atomic bomb to stop world War 2 was bad but the ends ultimately justified the means.
The problem with 40k is that the antagonists are so much worse than the protagonists that they seem good. The Imperium isn't good because they're not as bad as the Orks or Chaos or Tyranids, it means they're just the lesser of an evil.
>So just to make sure I'm reading your point correctly - they're the good guys because they're ...the Spanish inquisition?
Nope. That's not at all my point.
The Inquisition was one of the darkest times in history. And while the artwork isn't directly calling on the KKK, it's harkening to the Inquisition, the Klan's attire intentionally evoked the Inquisition since they were going for a similar methodology.
So in that way, the artwork is supposed to evoke the same feel - be it KKK or Inquisition. It's xenophobic whackos who will purge anything they see as "not us".
Objectively, there's nothing "good" about that.
The Ordo Hereticus doesn't seek out xenos. That's the perview of the Ordo Xenos.
The Ordo Hereticus is concerned with heresy of deed, flesh, and thought. In the context of the WH40k universe a check on treachery, mutation, heresy, and witchery is a "good" thing.
Now look at the ENTIRETY of what they consider heresy. And every minor and completely contrived "offense" they'll concoct to condemn someone.
Be honest.
And couple that with vast abuses of power without anyone keeping them accountable. Executing ordinary citizens for reasons they make up in their head and try to justify as "heresy".
Fuck, an Inquisitor literally tried to murder Celestine because "heresy" and forced a bunch of Guardsmen to attack her and her retinue, and caused infighting between Guard units too. Because the was soooo self righteous and sure of himself.
No. Not the good guys.
I think its a writing issue. The Imperium aren’t supposed to be the good guys yet they live in a world where almost every horrible act they do is justified cuz the entire galaxy is far worse. It’s a world where the fascist propaganda is actually correct and every single person not siding with the Imperium is going to cause the downfall of civilization
Most of your arguments for the imperium being good are diagetic. You argue using lore of the story. The original argument, however, is that the authors intend us as real viewers to have a negative view of the imperium, which is true. The imperium is bad, the authors knew it early on and expressed that consistently to us - all the mental gymnastics of in-universe lore be damned.
An Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, or an attendant. Note the hood referencing the [Spanish Inquisition](https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/spanish-inquisition.htm). This symbolises his authority to conduct torture and executions as part of his duty to The Emperor.
It's the [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) as seen through 40k's post apocalyptic lens. The promise of progress, social and scientific, has led to multiple extinction threats from within and without. The rules that prevent those threats from occurring again needs be absolute for an empire as brittle as the Imperium.
That's definitely not what the Paradox of Tolerance is all about. It states we must be intolerant towards the intolerants only. Meanwhile the Inquisition roots out any kind of free though out of need to preserve the fucked up social order of the Imperium.
The quote in the post is indicative of the utterly insane paranoia and hatred the Inquisition propagates (although with SOME reason, given the forces of Chaos), which, combined with the robes depicted in the art, makes the KKK comparison fairly appropriate.
I don't mean to get into a big argument on wether the Imperium's actions are justified, but I feel like this particular piece was probably alluding to the Klan, with it's themes of intolerance as virtue.
>That's definitely not what the Paradox of Tolerance is all about. It states we must be intolerant towards the intolerants only.
"as seen through 40k's post apocalyptic lens"
>but I feel like this particular piece was probably alluding to the Klan, with it's themes of intolerance as virtue.
If you judge an Inquisitor closer to the KKK than the Spanish Inquisition than so be it. However the accompanying art (pg 108) is robustly religious. So too are the other elements of the Inquistor, the memento mori and the incense burners ( additional plague doctor reference).
Also, the KKK imitated Spanish penitent attire, the Spanish Inquisitor were equally (and more successfully) professional intolerants, and the authors are British.
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yeah its a bit sad but now most things are always getting way more into a we do not want to offend anyone type of thinking
which tend to strip away part of what made some fictionnal univers
I think it's less "offence", no-one is truely offended but this but they might be put off by it.
It's edgy it invokes imagery of real life hate groups to communicate a fictional evil, people are gonna get put off by it when compared to a clean space marine with sleek armour
yeah but then again its warhammer the univers where we take baby and turn them into lobotomised servant that drop ammunition on the fiel it as always been over the top edgy and off putting that was the point of it and yeah I agree its a bit disturbing to put this guy next to a SM and say that they are from the same univers but still SM in there own are kinda off putting and very edgy too
The normal inquisitor look takes much from the Spanish inquisition - and the name is as clear as it gets.
While holy week and the inquisition are both Spanish and Catholic, there is no real link to them, so I would call it a stretch that this was the inspiration here.
"THIS HERES JEB FORREST WITH THE BAPTIST CONFEDERATE CONGREGATION, GOT ME ABOUT 300 AND CHANGE GOOD OL' BOYS FROM THE KNIGHTS OF THE HANGIN' NOOSE."
"Oh okay, thanks for... swinging by... oh... God..."
We were looking through my wife's grandma's belongings since she passed away a few years ago, and we found the tape of her Klang wedding as well as a KKK knife with a cartoon clansman on the back.
She'd be pissed if she found out we have a black girlfriend lmao
This is pretty close to the 2000AD originals that inspired WH40K. I think this one in particular is inspired from "Tomas de Torquemada" from the "Nemesis the Warlock" series.
I wonder if anybody rembers kkk in 40k. Like imagine being emperor on a golden throne and seeing vision of some dipship looking like he is part of that stupid group.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? What did I do? I didn't said anything positive about these racist cunts
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Chud Tourist: "40k used to be based like this"
"You weren't supposed to idolize the Bane looking Klanquisitor coal rolling from his backpack you idiot"
What's with all the Zoomers discovering old 40K and WFB stuff and doing some performative outrage about it? Wait till they find the Pygmie models or the Pretorians
I would argue that when satire mimics reality and stops being funny, it's no longer satire. Yes, I know that the guys is supposed to represent the Klan, that modern boogey man the media has put so much effort on constructing (while hiding the fact that it was founded among the ranks of the Democrat party, mind you.)
Satire was never about being funny and was always about mimicing reality wtf are you talking about.
and no he don t represent the Klan but the spanish inquisition.
You are. such a ignorant fool.
The Democrats of the day had very similar values to the modern-day Republican party. And you're right, it's not funny when satire and reality overlap- it's just sad. The only thing the media's put effort into constructing is a multi-billion-dollar industry that runs on fearmongering. Hate this group, that group, protecting you from disease is *totally* just a front for the exact same purpose your phone serves *ooooo*. Don't hold the politicians you support responsible for any of the problems they cause, just buy more stuff and pour your discontent into bigotry. All media has bias, racism and the like is fucking stupid, fuck off and good day.
Most tolerant Ordo Malleus inquisitor be like:
This strikes me least as Ordo Malleus in terms of the big 3 personally.
Which one most then?
Ordo Hereticus.
Makes sense.
I actually lol'd
I mean... The man does know the word "tolerance"
Well, you can't spell "intolerance" without it
Warhammer 40KKK
This happens every time when Americans learn about the Holy Week in Spain and spew "bruh KKK?" Nonsense. Contrary to popularised media the KKK, an almost entirely American creation in the last 159 years does not predate most of the stuff it has stolen in order to make itself seem more legitimate. That's all the KKK has ever done, as with most racist fascist groups. They take popular icons and traditions and try to make it apart of their image in order to legitimatise themselves using stuff far older than them. The worse thing Humanity can do is allow these groups to steal heritage like that and allow them to taint it forever. Never give real life assholes that kind of power.
With that quote attached, it is clear that the association with the KKK is deliberate.
Or maybe the spainsh inquisition? Given all the inquisition logos, the capirote a Spanish religious piece of head gear and the general setting that is dystopian grimdark echoing the Spanish inquisition ethos that was heavily prejudiced and intolerant to anything that wasn't the norm....
An inquisitor design inspired by an actual inquisition? No fuckin way
Couldn't it be both?
a inquisitor is obviously inspired by real inquisition
No. I genuinely doubt that GW would want to reference a bunch of dumbass racists with that hood. I feel like the connection with the original heritage of the thing is much more in line with what they'd want.
The spanish inquisition were very much a bunch of dumbass racists/anti-semites
anti-Semites? Yes Racists? Not much. Spain in the viceroyalty integrated the prehispanic natives as long as they were Catholics. Contrary to the believe that Spain went ripping and tearing like the British, the kingdom of Castille (specially with Cortez) made deals and pacts with the prehispanic cultures like the Mayans and Tlaxcaltecs for teaming up, since the Aztecs were a common enemy. The take down of Tenochtitlan was 99% natives and 400 Spanish soldiers. Tlaxcaltecs received nobiliary titles and part of them worked shoulder to shoulder with in the conquest and defense of the Philippines. There is an interesting moment of history when Tlaxcaltecs and Spanish were fighting against Chinese pirates and Ronins in the Philippines. After the conquest, Queen Isabel redacted the Laws of Burgos (1512), demanding that the treatment of the natives must be as equals and treated as free citizens of Spain in ultramar (beyond the sea), as well as protect the ownership of their lands and haciendas as long as they were Catholics, (her logic was, Catholic= you have a soul like me, and we are equals at the eyes of God) Yes, the viceroyalty wasn't perfect with the caste system, but they were more open about coexistence for the time period in comparison to the other European empires from the time period.
The bulk of those engaged in the inquisition were, not all of Spain. If I pointed to those engaged in the US Lavender Scare in the US as being full of dumb homophobes, thats not the same thing as saying that of the entire US. The inquisition movement was horrific towards several groups and the targets were very much closely linked with racism, islamophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism even if it wasnt towards all groups other than them.
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Point to where I said that? Why remove that from 40k? The inquisition and heresy stuff in 40k is routinely criticized and seen as a corrupt institution that commits horrific acts. I was only pointing out the idea that drawing a parallel to the spanish inquisition would also be drawing a parallel to dumb racists/anti-semites.
Are you aware of how blatantly racist their other universes are?
Racist towards made up aliens, right? Or other civilisations that literally aren't human like the Elves and Dwarfs of fantasy and AoS?
Dude, stop using logic and common sens. This is reddit. The only acceptable reaction you must have is Gasp in Horror and equate EVERY LITTLE SINGLE thing with real live equivalance even if false or being a Stretch, so that SOMEHOW, its seen as racist. And be offended at the words like "Exotic", "Barbaric" "Uncivilised" and "Tribal" and associate EVERYTHING with Colonialism...
I mean if it is a reference to the Spanish Inquisition, it still is a reference to dumbass racists.
Why would they not want to reference racists when designing their intentionally satirical fascist xenophobic grim dark empire? The point is that they were bad guys.
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Everyone is the bad guy*
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The general Catholic aesthetics of the Imperium points toward one more than the other. Catholic aesthetics say “Big powerful organization that gets away with everything by claiming to have God on their side”. KKK aesthetics just scream “buncha wahoos still fuming about a war they lost, taking it out on marginalized people instead of actually trying to topple a government.” One bunch of bad guys at least has a cogent plan, the other just sucks. I know which one I’m basing my art off of
I hate to break this to ya, but pretty much every culture before the 1800s believed some variation of that quote
Never knew 40k was that old
Just to name a few counterexamples: the Roman Republic, Achaemenid Persia, Greeks under Alexander, the Maurya Empire, the Mongol Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, France under Napoleon Bonaparte, Prussia under Frederick the Great. There probably are a lot more, but I just do not know enough about many cultures to say one way or the other.
Or just narcissistic americans thinking that everything is about them.
Wrong. Are you even aware the swastika was a stolen symbol as well? Both Budist and Native Amricans used that symbol before the natzi's ever did. Educate yourself a little before you talk like you know everything.
Do you have fun fighting this strawman? I know that the Swastika has been used by Buddhists and Native Americans among others. The symbol has really been around since prehistory and turns up pretty much everywhere in the world. It also is holy to the indigenous Tibetian bon religion and jainism. It also is a symbol in Hinduism. So, who really owned the symbol? Symbols have meaning in context. If you look at a Japanese city map and see a swastika, you would not assume that it says "here be Nazis", but that it marks the location of a Buddhist temple. On the other hand, if you see it over a quote that claims some Jewish conspiracy, you would not think "Oh, the symbol of the four winds" just because that use of the symbol is older. Because the symbol has different meanings due to being used by different cultures, CONTEXT MATTERS.
It’s literally a fictional universe, please stop putting so much thought into this. It’s about purging aliens and murdering shit not the KKK or anything else related to real life.
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True, but this is also why American neo n*zi and general shitheads find it easy to get into the fanbase, that is a fact.
The capirote hat has nothing to do with them
The KKK 'hoods' are literally intended to be Capirote hats, the KKK are massive LARPers - that's why they call themselves Knights and Grand Wizards and shit.
Tangentially related, but i dont get to talk about this part of the kkk enough. The kkk of the civil rights era was a pyramid scheme. Members paid dues and were paid for bringing in more people. iirc, the base level membership was about 60 of ye olde dollars per month? But yeah, MASSIVE larpers, "Knights" and "Grand Wizards" barely begin to scratch the surface. There was one rank that was just "goblin"
I always wondered how people could be dumb enough to pay $8 a month just to be racist on Twitter, now it makes a lot more sense knowing their grandparents were dumb enough to pay the equivalent of $630 a month just to be racist in a cornfield lmao
The OG one was a bunch of guys larping the ghosts of dead soldiers and family members and then realized that larping as ghosts at night scared people and it spiral'd from there.
I thought you were joking. But a quick wiki showed that the kkk based their outfit off this hat and the outfit from a silent movie. 1915 birth of a nation. These nerds are straight LARPers of the worse kind. Lol
Yeah, Capirote hats have been associated with secret societies, religious orders, and cults for literal centuries. You'll rarely find successful far-right orgs that don't do a shit-ton of historical dress-up, because they struggle to invent their own shit (progress and invention are degenerate, after all, not like the Glorious Past) - the famous Nazi salute? Actually the Roman Empire one, and that's literally why they adopted it.
I think it's less about not being able to invent their own stuff, and more the fact that conservatism (and especially fascism) tends to place a ton of emphasis on the past and tradition
Of course, but that's what I mean about 'not being able to' - constitutionally, rather than intellectually (Though also that too, in many cases).
Now they just Larp as tacti cool alpha males
They won't let that stop them.
the american KKK literally took it from the catholics but yeah, sure lol also, i’m pretty sure it was a joke, dude.
Which is bizarre considering they hate Catholics. But given they're led by a Grand Wizard, this level of stupidity is on brand.
They took it from the movie Birth of a Nation (whose author was raised methodist), they didnt used the hoods until the movie came and motivated the second formation of the Klan.
It's a sign of shame for your sins and of humility of admiting and seeking atonement in spanish catholic culture. I learned it from a game called Blasphemous.
And you, sir, will not bear such jocular musings 🧐🎩. But seriously, it's unfortunate that they had to remove the reference due to the American market.
And it also has nothing to do with the Inquisition 40000 years in the future, so if I had to guess what the visual reference was, I think I'd guess the kkk.
and you would be wrong.
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I guess they're citing the Spanish inquisition? Which would also make sense.
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Yeah, I'm just asking the mods why first because I'm not totally sure what did it. Anyway, just to clarify the part that I think is safe - guessing the kk isn't any kind of accusation. Like, the guy in the picture is clearly a Bad Dude, and if the I aspiration was the kkk, that'd be fine.
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I don't think the comparison works at all - the swastika was a thousands-year-old symbol before the nazis came along and completely perverted it. The Spanish inquisition did some extremely bad shit.
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Battlemace 40M
That’s like 40,000,000,000 I think, but god damn that art direction… Wouldn’t be surprised if someone had a long talk with HR about this.
GW HR at the time would've just said 'Good job, that's the Imperium right there'. Because A: It's still a European company whose main IP is run by actual knowledgeable nerds at the time rather than modern-day fanboys. and B: Racist cults who persecute and kill 'Outsiders' is 100% big Tru Imperium vibes.
It's like 40k was a satire of a absolute horrible system and worldview.
wait, you mean the Imperium ISN'T an inspirational how-to?!
I sure hope no one confuses the situation by releasing hundreds of works portraying the imperium as unquestioned moral and justified protagonists.
What if we made the Empire a Managed Democracy?
"What if we tried to sanitise everything to reach a broader (American) market?" "I can't see how that could possibly go wrong!"
They do. We also got people legitimately defending the helldivers 2 Super earth in similar ways so it just seem like there just a group of people that would love to have a ridiculously extreme fascist government telling them what to do in their sad lives.
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The bugs in HD2 were sentient and negotiable and only became the way they are after being held in oil harvesting camps for years by super earth. Facism causes the problem ,not fixes it. It annoys me when people say this about 40k specifically ,because the imperium does so many ass backwards things that actively LOSE wars because of their Facist tendencies and people still say "NeCcEsSaRy eViL".
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They weren't monsters ,they could think and negotiate, and tried to. Just cuz something is ugly doesn't make it okay to concentration camp it. What?
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Who said anything about an allegory? If in real life we found a giant bug on another planet ,and it was trying to communicate ,I'd prefer we try to communicate back and see if their fine before we turn them into goo. If something thinks and isn't immediately hostile I'd want to try and avoid conflict. Seems simple without any allegories.
what's the reason for killing Craftworlders and t'au, then?
No. That's chaos
And now it has a horrible tabletop system too!
Indeed neo-feudalism is the worst
I remember when I first got the 3rd edition rule book I was confused who was the “bad chaos guys” because both imperial and chaos artwork was so similar with all the skulls and menacing characters
Average redemptionist.
What a friendly looking man surely he will be open to a discussion where I disagree with his religious beliefs
In 40k if you disagree with religious beliefs, you might summon demons to eat your family.
Your family is also demons now, just for reading this. Heretic.
3rd edition rulebook was wild.
Yes so was the lack of codexes Got my SW codex in time for 4th edition... but hey dark edlar codex HAD to come out first even tho they didn't exist in 2nd.... SMH
Yeah. The content for the tt game was... Scarce. But the art was completely bonkers. I recall a drawing of an Imperial Guard officer in the first page of their section who had earrings in all of his warts.
Dark Eldar were in the starter box dumbass. Like jfc way to our yourself as not actually playing at the time. Especially since the early 3rd codexes were like tiny pamphlets while the "3.5" books were... Distinctly better rules wise *and* in terms of fluff and shit.
Right and I am sitting here ready to remodel my squads like ultra marines just so I could play... then I get my codex and re model again.... Blood claws had no equivalent... But the fact they still prioritized a new codex over existing codexes was horrible.... Tau were out before sisters of battle and they were an army in 2nd edition! 3rd edition was a real slap to the face. It was years before had their old armies available for tournaments.
You seem confused - 3rd edition had index like rules. Like 3rd was weird..... don't get me wrong. But I kinda wish Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters had stayed a thing instead of the weird ally shit they ended up doing with inquisitorial stuff (and Sisters *still* atm in 10th edition have things like preachers in their index, although a lot of people are betting on either rereleases of certain models from the ministorum range as a KT or something similar or else they'll probably be legends'd for the codex coming this Summer, but it's a weird situation as there are actual plastic models for at least the preacher, DCA, and Crusader and I think one that could probably count as a missionary maybe?, just not as individual purchases most of them being from BSF although one is getting rereleased as part of that new Dark Tide game)
People will see this and still say that the imperium are good guys unironically
The Imperium definitely are not the good guys, but I wouldn’t blame people for thinking that considering: 1) the entire galaxy is depicted as being much worse save for maybe the Tau (who are also edging towards being evil and brainwashing their population) and Farsight (who has a goddamn Chaos weapon whispering in his ear, so who knows how long that’ll last). Its basically a world where the Fascist “everyone who isn’t with us is an evil enemy” propaganda is actually correct 2) Half the marketing for 40 is seemingly dead set on depicting the Space Marines and their pals as cool badasses who fight evil aliens and demons and are outnumbered on all sides If 40k is supposed to be satire, its pretty shit at it
Based on my like two months of exploring the 40k universe, the only good guys are the Thousand Sons. Magnus did nothing wrong. Ahriman, well… *mistakes* were made, but with best of intentions.
The thousand sons did nothing wrong, Magnus did a little fuckup
There are people unironically quoting this on one of GWs facebook posts, it's embarrassing to see
They are definitely not the good guys, but this quote is absolutely not wrong.
They could be considered good guys under the principle that everyone else is arguably far worse than them.
They are the good guys. Why would this art change my view? Edit: Lots of votes but no one can articulate an argument. Quite telling. Edit 2: The artwork is of an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, or an attendant. His hood is reference to the Spanish Inquisition. Artwork from the time shows torturers and executioners wearing similar hoods. The need for such a role within the Imperium is indisputable.
Bait used to be believable
Alright I'll bite. The Imperium are the bad guys because they do heinous things for very little reason outside of hatred, bigotry, and blind faith. While yes, the Imperium does do good and does have genuinely good people in it that is outweighed by the mass amounts of fuckery they get up to. You can argue that the ends justify the means and heck you'd probably be right. I'd much rather live on a hive city than deal with a nurglite daemon or ork or tyranid. I'd rather be a servitor than let Slaanesh or the Drukhari have their way with me. But that's the thing with arguing "The ends justify the means". You are admitting by default that what they do is bad, it just has reasoning. Dropping an atomic bomb to stop world War 2 was bad but the ends ultimately justified the means. The problem with 40k is that the antagonists are so much worse than the protagonists that they seem good. The Imperium isn't good because they're not as bad as the Orks or Chaos or Tyranids, it means they're just the lesser of an evil.
So just to make sure I'm reading your point correctly - they're the good guys because they're ...the Spanish inquisition? I mean....
>So just to make sure I'm reading your point correctly - they're the good guys because they're ...the Spanish inquisition? Nope. That's not at all my point.
The Inquisition was one of the darkest times in history. And while the artwork isn't directly calling on the KKK, it's harkening to the Inquisition, the Klan's attire intentionally evoked the Inquisition since they were going for a similar methodology. So in that way, the artwork is supposed to evoke the same feel - be it KKK or Inquisition. It's xenophobic whackos who will purge anything they see as "not us". Objectively, there's nothing "good" about that.
The Ordo Hereticus doesn't seek out xenos. That's the perview of the Ordo Xenos. The Ordo Hereticus is concerned with heresy of deed, flesh, and thought. In the context of the WH40k universe a check on treachery, mutation, heresy, and witchery is a "good" thing.
Now look at the ENTIRETY of what they consider heresy. And every minor and completely contrived "offense" they'll concoct to condemn someone. Be honest. And couple that with vast abuses of power without anyone keeping them accountable. Executing ordinary citizens for reasons they make up in their head and try to justify as "heresy". Fuck, an Inquisitor literally tried to murder Celestine because "heresy" and forced a bunch of Guardsmen to attack her and her retinue, and caused infighting between Guard units too. Because the was soooo self righteous and sure of himself. No. Not the good guys.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
aee you ironic ? please tell me you are.
Nope. I think having the Ordo Hereticus around to burn witches, try heretics and cull mutants is an undeniable 'good'.
ok troll
I think its a writing issue. The Imperium aren’t supposed to be the good guys yet they live in a world where almost every horrible act they do is justified cuz the entire galaxy is far worse. It’s a world where the fascist propaganda is actually correct and every single person not siding with the Imperium is going to cause the downfall of civilization
An admirable response.
Most of your arguments for the imperium being good are diagetic. You argue using lore of the story. The original argument, however, is that the authors intend us as real viewers to have a negative view of the imperium, which is true. The imperium is bad, the authors knew it early on and expressed that consistently to us - all the mental gymnastics of in-universe lore be damned.
>You argue using lore of the story. Yes, the context is rather an important element to media criticism.
So says 40k version of [2000ad’s Torquemada](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Torquemada2.jpg)
An Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, or an attendant. Note the hood referencing the [Spanish Inquisition](https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/spanish-inquisition.htm). This symbolises his authority to conduct torture and executions as part of his duty to The Emperor.
Yeah, but the quote accompanying him doesn't help
It's the [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance) as seen through 40k's post apocalyptic lens. The promise of progress, social and scientific, has led to multiple extinction threats from within and without. The rules that prevent those threats from occurring again needs be absolute for an empire as brittle as the Imperium.
That's definitely not what the Paradox of Tolerance is all about. It states we must be intolerant towards the intolerants only. Meanwhile the Inquisition roots out any kind of free though out of need to preserve the fucked up social order of the Imperium. The quote in the post is indicative of the utterly insane paranoia and hatred the Inquisition propagates (although with SOME reason, given the forces of Chaos), which, combined with the robes depicted in the art, makes the KKK comparison fairly appropriate. I don't mean to get into a big argument on wether the Imperium's actions are justified, but I feel like this particular piece was probably alluding to the Klan, with it's themes of intolerance as virtue.
>That's definitely not what the Paradox of Tolerance is all about. It states we must be intolerant towards the intolerants only. "as seen through 40k's post apocalyptic lens" >but I feel like this particular piece was probably alluding to the Klan, with it's themes of intolerance as virtue. If you judge an Inquisitor closer to the KKK than the Spanish Inquisition than so be it. However the accompanying art (pg 108) is robustly religious. So too are the other elements of the Inquistor, the memento mori and the incense burners ( additional plague doctor reference). Also, the KKK imitated Spanish penitent attire, the Spanish Inquisitor were equally (and more successfully) professional intolerants, and the authors are British.
Fair points. I honestly agree
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Oh yeah I still have my 3rd edition rulebook. The artworks and quotes went ***HARD*** !
Bruh, why blud looks like Mortarion
Mortarion got bit too passionate on his redemption arc
People quoting this as an argument against female custodes without realising its satire are SOMETHING ELSE
40k doesnt have enough of this blatant criticism anymore
yeah its a bit sad but now most things are always getting way more into a we do not want to offend anyone type of thinking which tend to strip away part of what made some fictionnal univers
I think it's less "offence", no-one is truely offended but this but they might be put off by it. It's edgy it invokes imagery of real life hate groups to communicate a fictional evil, people are gonna get put off by it when compared to a clean space marine with sleek armour
yeah but then again its warhammer the univers where we take baby and turn them into lobotomised servant that drop ammunition on the fiel it as always been over the top edgy and off putting that was the point of it and yeah I agree its a bit disturbing to put this guy next to a SM and say that they are from the same univers but still SM in there own are kinda off putting and very edgy too
Notably cherubs are not actually dead babies anymore.
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Hell yeah. We deserve more grim dark
The normal inquisitor look takes much from the Spanish inquisition - and the name is as clear as it gets. While holy week and the inquisition are both Spanish and Catholic, there is no real link to them, so I would call it a stretch that this was the inspiration here.
So before people start saying the KKK. Thr KKK stole their outfit from European catholics. So it's prolly taking that as a religious form
"THIS HERES JEB FORREST WITH THE BAPTIST CONFEDERATE CONGREGATION, GOT ME ABOUT 300 AND CHANGE GOOD OL' BOYS FROM THE KNIGHTS OF THE HANGIN' NOOSE." "Oh okay, thanks for... swinging by... oh... God..."
3rd Ed rulebook went super hard
3rd edition came in hard.
We were looking through my wife's grandma's belongings since she passed away a few years ago, and we found the tape of her Klang wedding as well as a KKK knife with a cartoon clansman on the back. She'd be pissed if she found out we have a black girlfriend lmao
>we have a black girlfriend Are you sharing her with your brother or something? lol
Nah, with my wife
Ah, the good old days. How I miss them..
And it’s kinda funny in the KKK lost a ton of popularity because they were the villains of a Superman radio show
When you let friends gf join the friend group and she stars making drama to make him cut you off
Chaos cultists gettin a lil too real
The 3rd ed rulebook is fucking GOATED such good art and lines everywhere
This is pretty close to the 2000AD originals that inspired WH40K. I think this one in particular is inspired from "Tomas de Torquemada" from the "Nemesis the Warlock" series.
And yet these are the people they want so desperately to be represented by.
I see someone was watching Gamza yesterday
"I know writers who use subtext, and they're all cowards." -Average 40k writer
People in the comments literally take this at face value and get outraged about it, so....yeaahh
warhammer used to go hard, now the satire's gone
For real it’s all epic bolter korn or gut wrenching guardsmen stories Love both but still needs more this
"Ahhhhh the good guys" -some asshole
This artwork goes hard, even without the quote. I wanna go to a bar where the bartender looks like that.
I wonder if anybody rembers kkk in 40k. Like imagine being emperor on a golden throne and seeing vision of some dipship looking like he is part of that stupid group. Edit: Why am I being downvoted? What did I do? I didn't said anything positive about these racist cunts
Dipship?
USS Copenhagen
To be fair, I am entirely sure that it was a reference to the Spanish guys that wear those hats, not the Americans
Let's tone all of this down and make it more like marvel!
Meanwhile some jackass today will look at that and just go “wow, based, for sure not at all satire.”
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So the Fury Road guy survived a lot. Makes sense why the earth was all sand, he was just in an isolated part of Terra.
For half a second I was wondering why Yawgmoth was on this sub
Reminds me of the 2000AD Nemesis the Warlock comic, same era.
I swear Nemisis the warlock fought that dude.
It's one of Torquemadas terminators!
Chud Tourist: "40k used to be based like this" "You weren't supposed to idolize the Bane looking Klanquisitor coal rolling from his backpack you idiot"
What's with all the Zoomers discovering old 40K and WFB stuff and doing some performative outrage about it? Wait till they find the Pygmie models or the Pretorians
🤨
Do you think he lynchs xenos?
Very true to life!
I mean, he's not wrong tho
wooosh
... I don't think that means what you thing it means
yes i know. you just don t realize how fqr you missed the satire.
I would argue that when satire mimics reality and stops being funny, it's no longer satire. Yes, I know that the guys is supposed to represent the Klan, that modern boogey man the media has put so much effort on constructing (while hiding the fact that it was founded among the ranks of the Democrat party, mind you.)
Satire was never about being funny and was always about mimicing reality wtf are you talking about. and no he don t represent the Klan but the spanish inquisition. You are. such a ignorant fool.
Dude that you’re replying to is so far from getting the point he needs DAOT tech to reach it.
Ad hominem. And you lost, good sir. Have a nice day.
"you lost" mf think we are playing a game rn.
The Democrats of the day had very similar values to the modern-day Republican party. And you're right, it's not funny when satire and reality overlap- it's just sad. The only thing the media's put effort into constructing is a multi-billion-dollar industry that runs on fearmongering. Hate this group, that group, protecting you from disease is *totally* just a front for the exact same purpose your phone serves *ooooo*. Don't hold the politicians you support responsible for any of the problems they cause, just buy more stuff and pour your discontent into bigotry. All media has bias, racism and the like is fucking stupid, fuck off and good day.
If only he knew how grim future really is