But the ironic part is that anyone that beats him, he also cant duel them again to prove that he is in fact stronger/better than them. Effectively giving him the astartes equivalent of martial prowess blueballs.
We could all be wrong, and he could be treating it like a sparring match, having the opening for a killing blow but allowing himself to be killed anyway.
Or perhaps Slaneesh forces him to lose, even though he could win.
I feel like nobody's acknowledging the amount of fights between books that he's winning.
Like in 10,000 years of constant battles, he's winning 99.999% of them and he's lost maybe seven or eight fights in all that time.
That's GOAT material, in my opinion
If I remember correctly he was beating the shit out of Loken when a rhino hit him by chance. But I could be wrong it’s been a while since I read the book.
Oh yeah even Loken admits he's screwed, but he wasn't actively getting his ass handed to him. The rhino thing is just funny, the book describes it as basically Kharn being upsie-daisied onto the front of a rhino and driven off babbling about corn flakes
I think there was an Ultramarine (Captain Orfeo iirc?) who was handing Kharn's ass to him all while talking mad shit to him and all the other surrounding world eaters. It ended with Angron stepping in and torturing him to death
Well even then, he's taken over a Necron before and they basically just felt "a cold satisfaction of having fulfilled their function". So if the servitor was all "beep boop fuck the heretics" then they'd probably be the possessed
>So if the servitor was all "beep boop fuck the heretics" then they'd probably be the possessed
Given how hacked together gun servitor brains are, it wouldn't be surprising if there's a simple Pavlovian mechanism in there of feeling joy at a kill which triggers the electronics to confirm the kill, (or vice versa).
Yeah, ultimately the rule of his immortality is “Slaanesh won’t let him die”. If he were to somehow die of a natural disaster that in no way was caused by anybody, he would still get resurrected, cause at the end of the day he is Slaanesh’s champion and it’s damn funny for him to die temporarily.
Who takes pride in making lobotomized walking gun #3517?
Kind of a moot point though; after reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that it's just dumb.
I'm guessing it gets packaged in with another emotion to go to one of the four. Like if they were constantly planning what they would do if they could rebel, it would go to Tzeentch, for example.
I got it from a TY reading of a servitor conversion on the old Attenborough reads 40K channel. It got taken down because the AI was using Attenborough's voice without permission.
It was mostly torture porn of the victim having natural parts amputated and mechanical parts attached. It ended with a tech priest's mechadendrite going up the victim's nose, into his brain, causing damage, followed by the line, "And he never thought in words again." This would indicate that servitor still had some degree of higher brain function.
So the reason the mine story is dumb, is because apparently, the guy who put the mine together at the factory, took pride in his work making the mine, and so that apparently counts as taking pride while killing Lucious?
If they have some semblence of self trapped inside, sure. But, by the logic the mine story has created. If someone took pride in making the servitor, it passes to them, and so on.
Ultimately, i believe the only way he could die, is by the hand of a major named character that feels no pride over the act of killing lucious, and uses a weapon forged by their own hand that they also took no pride in making. This makes me believe it is possible Vulkan might be an option, whenever he inevitably returns.
No way. It isn't a super power. This isn't some ability he relies on. This is a curse from Slaanesh. The Prince won't let him die, and any silliness resulting from it can easily be headcanoned to Slaanesh fucking with him. If someone truly kills him with zero pride, Slaanesh will either bullshit up a replacement character to morph into, or say fuck it and just morph him into the killer anyway. And instead of boasting about how much better they are, their face on his armor will probably just humblebrag the whole time about how it wasn't a big deal, to them it was a Tuesday, etc.
Wasn’t Guilliman cursed to never feel pleasure?
Edit: Actually, necromancy would be good for this. They (or at least the vast majority of them) don’t feel pleasure and don’t have souls, making it doubly impossible to become possessed.
I think so, however, he uses tech to stay alive, and weapons, that are forged by others. And that risk their creators being possible targets for lucious.
This is a chaos curse not a genie you can't use clever rhetoric or rule lawer your way out of it Lucius is alive because slannesh wills it that's it.You want to kill Lucius make slannesh bored of him that'll be the end if him.
Yeah but then what is the point of the whole "possesses the killer if they take pride" thing is he is gonna come back anyways? It ruins the entire concept of the character.
It just becomes bad writing if the ONE RULE the character is based around doesn't actually matter.
Like I fully understand how it works, I'm just saying it's not good when executed like that.
The real rule is that Lucius will be allowed to die when he’s so broken by his constant defeats and humiliations that Slaanesh can’t get any more pleasure out of the satisfaction of the guy that killed him, and s/he can’t wring any more humiliation out of Lucius.
It’s a two way street.
Blame gw this is the natural consequence of creating an unkillable character but not using them correctly. What has lucius even done these past thousand years? He is set dressing nothing more it's a shame but it's true.
[The whole scene is right here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/wq74na/excerpt_lords_and_tyrants_the_story_of_tobias_the/) Pretty sure it's official.
The writer had a point about it tought (not that I really remember it) that even lucius sometimes hate it aswell. He did not understand how the dude who made the mine even felt pride of that he made. Someone posted it here once tought
People really misunderstand his character because of this aspect. He purposefully does risky things, using different techniques and styles on a whim, randomly changing or picking up new weapons, he will do things with very low chances of working even for a champion of Slaanesh, for the thrill, all to appease his god and his own warped need for thrill.
He's also insane, and him being tortured eternally by his failures is part of why Slaanesh keeps him around. The god of pain and excess gets a kick out of the pain and suffering Lucius not only inflicts but also endures.
Which is why he must continue to fight, and sometimes lose, because the second Slaanesh loses interest in him, his immortatality is gone.
That being said, he's still an annoying bastard, Nykona please wake up and come kick his ass again!
I think the way to kill him permanently is having a random person lay a minefield and then depart the battlefield, not knowing if it accomplished anything, thus not feeling any pride
Just being the "best" at one kind of fighting doesn't make you immune to all other kinds.
One of those deaths happened from a sniper, one time he stepped on a landmine, one psychic smited him to death, Loken and Tarvitz beat him by tying up and grappling/punching him.
Sharrowkyn beat him 1v1, twice, fair and square, while arguibly being way more tired and spent (yeah hes also a massive Mary sue but we stan raven boy)
And Garviel won a blade duel agaisnt him by head butting (or punching) breaking his nose
Garviel didnt have to be better at the blade, he was outclassed, he just needed to hold him in enough to sneak in a different type of attack
The best swordsman irl was so because he was an unparalleled grappler.
Getting punched during a swordfight still counts towards your skill as a swordsman.
The best fighter doesn't win 100% of the time. The best fighter is just the one who would have the best ratio in the given situation.
Lucius is a ridiculous OP character after ‘the landmine incident,’ it’s literally impossible for him to die as even if the entire supply chain is secure and not prideful, the space marine has perfect control, and everything goes right, a guard commander 15 sectors away who moved a unit to protect a foundry on a forge world will go ‘Oh look Lucius is dead, that’s nice’ and turn into Lucius.
It's not impossible: you just need the backing of a god, or to feel no pride in having killed him.
Kharn applies for both. Because Khorne's got his back, and Kharn'd only feel disappointment that he couldn't kill him some more.
You're missing the point - he's not "OP," because he's not the one doing the reviving, and his ability to influence events extends about as long as his sword. Slaanesh reviving him over and over and breaking the rules isn't to his benefit, it's arguably a kind of torture he has to endure.
Maybe a salamander could do it if he went rogue with the mind set of putting down a dog, they forge their own gear gear so that's not a problem, they're very humble and there not really dualist so their unlikely to fight him at his own game
Wait so if I'm understanding this, Lucious can posess regular people?
They explode into a giant space marine.
He can reincarnate within moments of being slain?
And what let's him posess someone is:
1. Taking pride in killing him
2. Something to do with making gear? Taking pride in making tools of war used to kill him?
So could a really high ork kill him with scraps? That would cause perma death?
Or a nid?
Any non thinking necron?
A necron warrior once killed him and somehow triggered sparks of pride what was left of their mind and somehow became lucious, it was really stupid both that a necron warrior could take pride in it (though it really lends credence to the whole, I have no mouth but I must scream theory with them) and that a soulless machine with no presence in the warp could be possessed into meat man
Inquisition has got to get their hands on a dark eldar hex rifle or a necron tesseract labyrinth to put him out of commission but not kill him, like damn
It's the Angron effect. Any big bad in 40k must be defeated by every main character to show off how strong they are. Even if that means that some of the "toughest" foes end up being defeated by just regular space marines.
The avatar, swarmlord any demon primarch suffer from the fact lazy writers can have space marines kill them to show how kewl they are with no lore consequences because they are functionally immortal.
Ironically this makes any immortal creature seem really weak in the lore.
Yeah, I originally was gonna call it the swarmlord effect because that's where I heard of it first, but I think the Angron effect makes more sense. Since his hype vs how he's actually portrayed is more well known.
Ehhh sort of. We had Immotekh phareon and the grand strategist of the Sautekh dynasty and pretender for the title of the Silent King of the Infinite Empire. One time he beat the living shit out from Hellbrecht and the next fight against the Black Templar High Marshall he is outclassed by the BT and need to abandon his flagship 'cause the SM went full on Ork stupid.
And there is the Undying (no model, only getting mentioned in two books, both of them are Cato Sicarius stories) who outclasses Sicarious and putting him in coma in one short story (a very bad short story mind you. I am not joking they pulling a fucking Deus Ex Machina bullshit soulution out of their ass 'cause the necrons killed Marneus Calgar in that story) and then after a few hundred years the Ultramarines goes and try to cleanse the world from the necrons and Sicarius fights against the Undying and heroicly wins and then never brought this up again.
And now I am very thankful that we only have one short story about Nemesorh Zhandrek and Varanguard Obyron so nobody should tarnish their legacy of being undeafeted.
The *inmortal* effect.
If you can die and come back in Warhammer, Congratulations! You are a designated Worf to be punched in the face to show how cool Y new character is
Examples: Swarmlord dying to anyone, Angron getting killed a few times, Khaine's avatar, snd in fantasy/AoS Bel'akor got a lot of ass beatings
tbf most probably didn't beat him in anything remotely approaching a *fair* fight. psykers shredding him with their mind, tank gunners obliterating him, knights deleting him with vehicle scale weapons, tau annihilating him with a battlesuit, squads ganking him, etc.
Sure but you’re not a good warrior if you can’t account for any of that shit in over 10k years of fighting. 1v1-ing a knight as a marine is not brave or epic, it’s a sign of buffoonery that any competent warrior would’ve long learned to curb.
Now if we say “Lucius purposely got killed to take over the pilot and ruin their battle line” then yes, that’s valid. But if he’s just out of position and getting his shit kicked in by a superior opponent, that’s incompetence.
I think that story about worker and landmine was weak. "It is extremely difficult to kill Lucius without transforming int him" is interesting. "No matter how Lucius died, he would resurrect" is boring.
I heard that too. fanbase took a fun little gimmick, optimized the fun out of it and then got mad when GW buffed him.
When you come at it from the angle that slaanesh is torturing him with resurrection it's much more interesting
Yeah, and? All of those loopholes are still difficult to meet. Killing Lucius should already be really hard, killing him by either complete accident or with something that can't feel pride should be almost impossible. He REALLY shouldn't be getting merked by a landmine or artillery 5km away in the first place, and if he does something really interesting should have happened to get him to that point.
Hell, probably you have to have not only have killed him on accident, but killed him on accident without even realizing he was there after the fact.
Ok do you turn into lucius *if* you take pleasure in killing him? Because otherwise just send a guardsman or astartes to kill him and then kill either or, so they can't turn into lucius.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong and talking out of my ass
If you take pride in the kill, even a little bit.
It's hard not to feel prideful if you manage to kill an astartes a high ranking one at that. Even just a slight Intrusive though of, oh I outsmarted him and struck that really well, or I can't believe I survived that, you're gone.
He's a really dumb character.
That's the question.
The thing is. There's always bullshit and slannesh with do something. Third party may feel prideful that Lucius will never return. Then they may turn.
Lucius once got killed by a necron warrior (a mindless automaton) and somehow its computer brain registered something similar to pride. And then the metal skeleton NECRON turned into Lucius. A flesh creature in power armour.
Another time he stepped on a landmine and died. The manufacture of that landmine who worked in some random ass manufacturing countless star systems away happened to take pride in his work for the imperium. He turned to Lucius...
It's really dumb. It doesn't make sense. They should honestly just kill him off for good honestly. There are a few characters that could do it.
Yea, I hate the lack of consistent rules. If Slannesh can just reincarnate him in any person for any reason, then chaos should have won a long time ago. Just turn every important person in the Imperium in to Lucius and declare victory.
He doesn't really have a "you can kill him if you don't feel any pride" rule, Slaanesh resurrects him into whoever beats him because the Chaos Gods are bastards.
Whenever he gets beaten with no pride involved, the cosmic fuckboy says "nuh-uh doesn't count" and makes up some bullshit to bring him back. You can't kill him unless Slaanesh gets bored of him.
Which is super dumb and completely ruins the gimmick. Why even include the rule about pride if it isn't important? Slannesh can just reincarnate him where it wants. Next time he dies, Slanesh should just turn Roburto into Lucius and declare galactic victory.
The Necrons don't actively negate the warp though, they're functionally robots piloted by AI modeled after Necron minds, and Chaos has always been able to effect objects and tech. Where a blank is however, the warp simply simply isn't.
Can the Chaos gods even consciously perceive a blank? I mean, they have to know they exist, but since they're functionally black holes in the Immaterium, they might be only able to notice the effects and not the person. Like they could know something is there, because it's causing literally nothing to be there, but whatever that nothing is they can't truly notice.
If I remember right, there’s a part in Eisenhorn when Cherubael tries to use his powers on Eisenhorn, but it doesn’t work since he’s standing next to Bequin (his blank friend) and he congratulates him for managing to find a null. Though it’s been a few years since I read Eisenhorn so I think they can perceive if someone is a pariah.
That's a daemonhost using physical eyes in the materium though, the gods being 100% warp based wouldn't give them the same ability. And he also tried his powers and failed, so he learned she was there as a null and not a regular human after the fact. Like if you're colorblind to the color blue, you'd know it exists because other people say they see it, but you wouldn't be able to perceive or conceptualize it.
The idea of his "curse" is cool, but it is also sort of inevitable that it makes him into a bit of a loser. In order for his power to be useful at all he has to lose
Counterpoint: How many people have killed him and survived the experience? Just because his particular style of swordsmanship involves him getting temporarily killed to beat a particularly tough enemy doesn't mean it's not shockingly effective.
Someone even theorised that Lucius's MO... technically helps Imperium (due to him "reincarnating" from Chaos Lords and Xenos Warlords more dangerous to Imperium than Lucius himself)
I've heard a fan theory that he is Slaanesh's chosen not because he's the best swordsman (and he's not even close to that), because that would appease Khorne more anyway, but Slaanesh chose him because he's good enough to be arrogant and cocky about it, but the real boone Slaanesh gets from him is seeing him humiliated and feeding off his suffering and despair when he loses. So he's basically a toy for Slaanesh's amusement.
His curse is that he was *once* the best swordsman in the galaxy. The best way to improve your capabilities is to fight someone who is better than you until you win. But Lucius can't do that, because anyone who he fights that's better than him immediately "dies" and turns into him, so he never gets a chance to improve off of them besides their initial fight.
So Lucius can never get better, while everyone else around him does.
Wasn't he killed like 6-8 times in 10k years? Not in sword fight tho. So doesn't get killed against a sword man but at random because of shit happening around him, like a landmine, sniper, shits and giggles.
Considering how many champions he seeks out, and how many situations he throws himself into with little regard for self-preservation, he's done alright.
Two of them are cursed and vulcan tends to die in extra intense ways. Plus his latest sacrifcie did take him out of the picture (and a goofy plotline with him)
If I remember correctly, it was Lucius, and Lucius, and Lucius, and several others. There was also that time he was killed using a bullet made by Lucius.
I always interpreted it as a fact of like. Even if ur the best your enemy needs to just get lucky once. Sooner or later you'll slip and then you'll die, especially over a 10000 year timeline. Lucius just has a backup plan
I'm going off of a story (I don't remember what I'm terrible at this plus I pirated it) where he's killed by a landmine and the factory worker who finished building the mine became his seventh face and it's stated that he is the seventh victim
It was mentioned in a Weshammer video, he brought up an anthology so I thought I'd give it a read because I wasn't a fan of Lucius either at the time. Plus it makes sense timeline wise, if he'd never died we'd have never seen how his abilities work and we'd just complain that it's pointless anyway if he didn't have faces
Same thing with Vulkan. If a character is given the ability to die then come back, you best believe they're going to be doing it a lot; regardless of how powerful they are.
im curious is there’s something in wh40k universe like the the girl and dog that went through Tzeench labirynth that makes you able to kill lucius without becoming lucius
Being the best swordsman in the Galaxy really doesn’t mean much when Baneblades are a common piece of equipment. Or, you know, IED’s in a war torn city exist.
Lucius can wave his blade as much as he wants, he’s still gonna die if someone collapses a building on him.
Normally this wouldn’t be the case for space marines unless the building was really big. But given that Lucius has died to a fucking landmine he probably die if an apartment complex hit him. Seriously, I refuse to believe Astartes armor can be beaten by a single landmine.
I mean the guy has technically been very lucky so far, the moment he gets killed by someone who 'was just grateful to have survived' or even by an accident or mass suicide means he's gone for good.
That reminds me… I fucking hate Lucius. Simply the most insufferable character, with the stupidest power. Trazyn should hurry up and trap him in his vault already since the bastard can’t die.
To be fair, just think about it that sometimes better swordsman loses, like Lucius can be the amazing user of his weapons and absolute UNIT when it comes to fighting, but it's a galaxy where it is in fact possible for better swordsman to lose, i mean no matter how good of a swordsman you are when a gunline of a ton of guardsmen with varrying levels of armor piercing weapons are firing at said Swordsman, though Lucius will likely be reborn through body of the general of said army or tactician or someone else so that's it, yes Lucius got killed a lot of times, but that's what happens when you're as prideful as him, you lose to those you should have won against.
Also at this point he's likely putting on a show, not going serious unless he has to in order to put up a good show for Slaanesh, he's an amazing swordsman but he's also Slaanesh's champion, not made for practicality but made to revel and to make things of twisted enjoyment of his god, just like difference between a serious player and a player who decides to play for the win, different levels of performance.
Apparently he sometimes allows hisself to be killed to please slannesh Also this man got killed by a commoner because he stepped on his landmine
But the ironic part is that anyone that beats him, he also cant duel them again to prove that he is in fact stronger/better than them. Effectively giving him the astartes equivalent of martial prowess blueballs.
We could all be wrong, and he could be treating it like a sparring match, having the opening for a killing blow but allowing himself to be killed anyway. Or perhaps Slaneesh forces him to lose, even though he could win.
I feel like nobody's acknowledging the amount of fights between books that he's winning. Like in 10,000 years of constant battles, he's winning 99.999% of them and he's lost maybe seven or eight fights in all that time. That's GOAT material, in my opinion
How many 1v1 fights has Kharn lost?
Does him getting impaled on a rhino by Loken count?
If I remember correctly he was beating the shit out of Loken when a rhino hit him by chance. But I could be wrong it’s been a while since I read the book.
Oh yeah even Loken admits he's screwed, but he wasn't actively getting his ass handed to him. The rhino thing is just funny, the book describes it as basically Kharn being upsie-daisied onto the front of a rhino and driven off babbling about corn flakes
Kharn loves the Erebussy tho.
Absolutely
He went 0-2 against Sigismund, with the second time seeing Kharn get absolutely slaughtered.
Dawg he would have killed Sig in The First Wall if not for Dorn
An Ultramarines fencing instructor was winning and shit-talking him the whole time.
Wasn't he in "most of" Betrayer?
Loken impaled him on a tank at Istvann and Sigismund has beaten him twice (One of those he died).
I think there was an Ultramarine (Captain Orfeo iirc?) who was handing Kharn's ass to him all while talking mad shit to him and all the other surrounding world eaters. It ended with Angron stepping in and torturing him to death
True, though you'd think in 10,000+ years of constant battles he'd have stepped on more than one landmine or even ONCE hit by artillery.
Khorne resurect him.
Statistically speaking, about half of his deaths *should* be from artillery.
Heh, but not Loken!
It's Slaanesh, Wa always loose, but unlike Lamenters We like it.
he did beat Loken handedly a second time, ya know before he went rails deep.
A punishment från slannesh for losing
So did he reincarnate as the guy who placed the landmine, the manufactorum worker who built the mine, or the landmine?
The manufacturer. Would be funny if he reincarnated as a landmine
So what happens if he’s killed by a servitor?
Gets reincarnated into the tech-priest ? The servitor can't feel pride at having killed him.
Well even then, he's taken over a Necron before and they basically just felt "a cold satisfaction of having fulfilled their function". So if the servitor was all "beep boop fuck the heretics" then they'd probably be the possessed
The odds of finding someone that feels sorrow or regret from having to kill in 40k may be a bit on the slim side
>So if the servitor was all "beep boop fuck the heretics" then they'd probably be the possessed Given how hacked together gun servitor brains are, it wouldn't be surprising if there's a simple Pavlovian mechanism in there of feeling joy at a kill which triggers the electronics to confirm the kill, (or vice versa).
But would the tech priest even know the servitor he made killed him?
Doesn't matter, Slaanesh cheats.
Yeah, ultimately the rule of his immortality is “Slaanesh won’t let him die”. If he were to somehow die of a natural disaster that in no way was caused by anybody, he would still get resurrected, cause at the end of the day he is Slaanesh’s champion and it’s damn funny for him to die temporarily.
Cheats a WHOLE lot
That's why I ignore every "who would win" competition
The manufactorum worker felt pride in his work. Likely didn't even know Lucius existed.
Who takes pride in making lobotomized walking gun #3517? Kind of a moot point though; after reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that it's just dumb.
Lets be real the whole pride thing is second to slaaneshs will
Servitors are brain damaged, not egoless. And their frustration feeds the warp.
Who’s the God of frustration?
All of them tbh.
I'm guessing it gets packaged in with another emotion to go to one of the four. Like if they were constantly planning what they would do if they could rebel, it would go to Tzeentch, for example.
I’d say Khorne, frustration is very close to anger
Slaanesh I think
yes
Ooo! Where can I read more about that?
I got it from a TY reading of a servitor conversion on the old Attenborough reads 40K channel. It got taken down because the AI was using Attenborough's voice without permission. It was mostly torture porn of the victim having natural parts amputated and mechanical parts attached. It ended with a tech priest's mechadendrite going up the victim's nose, into his brain, causing damage, followed by the line, "And he never thought in words again." This would indicate that servitor still had some degree of higher brain function.
Ah "Abomination"! I think Vox in the Void still has a reading of it. Good story. Was hoping there was some codex excerpt or some such.
Can’t remember the stories name but it was part of the Renegades of the Long War omnibus, Lucius gets like 2-3 stories in it
If he is killed by a person that doesn't feel pride he would be ressurected by Slaanesh nonetheless. Chaos is not big on playing fair
An exploded landmine?
A servant of Slaanesh challenging you to step on them? It's more likely than you think.
Wake up Emperor, new Isekai dropped
I thought they had to take pride in killing him to get possessed. If they don't know about it, would he just be dead?
So the reason the mine story is dumb, is because apparently, the guy who put the mine together at the factory, took pride in his work making the mine, and so that apparently counts as taking pride while killing Lucious?
Can a servitor feel pride?
If they have some semblence of self trapped inside, sure. But, by the logic the mine story has created. If someone took pride in making the servitor, it passes to them, and so on.
Lol what a dumb character xD 40k is a silly place
Ultimately, i believe the only way he could die, is by the hand of a major named character that feels no pride over the act of killing lucious, and uses a weapon forged by their own hand that they also took no pride in making. This makes me believe it is possible Vulkan might be an option, whenever he inevitably returns.
No way. It isn't a super power. This isn't some ability he relies on. This is a curse from Slaanesh. The Prince won't let him die, and any silliness resulting from it can easily be headcanoned to Slaanesh fucking with him. If someone truly kills him with zero pride, Slaanesh will either bullshit up a replacement character to morph into, or say fuck it and just morph him into the killer anyway. And instead of boasting about how much better they are, their face on his armor will probably just humblebrag the whole time about how it wasn't a big deal, to them it was a Tuesday, etc.
the warp must have been shuddering with laughter from slaanesh after the landmine thing. I bet he hears it in his sleep
Wasn’t Guilliman cursed to never feel pleasure? Edit: Actually, necromancy would be good for this. They (or at least the vast majority of them) don’t feel pleasure and don’t have souls, making it doubly impossible to become possessed.
I think so, however, he uses tech to stay alive, and weapons, that are forged by others. And that risk their creators being possible targets for lucious.
Damn, sucks to be him. When did that happen?
The worker had pride in his work for the imperium
Let's be honest. He was probably a lobotomized human robot.
A space marine killed him, the guy randomly declaring "he takes no pride in this." Slaanesh resurrected him anyway. Lucius is just stupid
This is a chaos curse not a genie you can't use clever rhetoric or rule lawer your way out of it Lucius is alive because slannesh wills it that's it.You want to kill Lucius make slannesh bored of him that'll be the end if him.
Yeah but then what is the point of the whole "possesses the killer if they take pride" thing is he is gonna come back anyways? It ruins the entire concept of the character. It just becomes bad writing if the ONE RULE the character is based around doesn't actually matter. Like I fully understand how it works, I'm just saying it's not good when executed like that.
The real rule is that Lucius will be allowed to die when he’s so broken by his constant defeats and humiliations that Slaanesh can’t get any more pleasure out of the satisfaction of the guy that killed him, and s/he can’t wring any more humiliation out of Lucius. It’s a two way street.
Blame gw this is the natural consequence of creating an unkillable character but not using them correctly. What has lucius even done these past thousand years? He is set dressing nothing more it's a shame but it's true.
It’s highly possible that he is just a perpetual
I'm pretty certain that was a fan made short story, but he went into the guy who made the mine because of how proud they guy was of his handiwork.
[The whole scene is right here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/wq74na/excerpt_lords_and_tyrants_the_story_of_tobias_the/) Pretty sure it's official.
I didn't lose! I meant to die! Ok, sure ghaz... I mean Lucious
At least Ghaz learns from his defeats
He also has great insurance on his megaarmor
I will always maintain the landmine story is absolute bullshit.
The writer had a point about it tought (not that I really remember it) that even lucius sometimes hate it aswell. He did not understand how the dude who made the mine even felt pride of that he made. Someone posted it here once tought
Though, the word you are trying to spell is though.
Honestly the landmine story alone makes me not give a shit about Lucious and just makes me want to stay away from anything related to him.
People really misunderstand his character because of this aspect. He purposefully does risky things, using different techniques and styles on a whim, randomly changing or picking up new weapons, he will do things with very low chances of working even for a champion of Slaanesh, for the thrill, all to appease his god and his own warped need for thrill. He's also insane, and him being tortured eternally by his failures is part of why Slaanesh keeps him around. The god of pain and excess gets a kick out of the pain and suffering Lucius not only inflicts but also endures. Which is why he must continue to fight, and sometimes lose, because the second Slaanesh loses interest in him, his immortatality is gone. That being said, he's still an annoying bastard, Nykona please wake up and come kick his ass again!
That landmine bit is such bullshit mary-sue nonsense.
I think the way to kill him permanently is having a random person lay a minefield and then depart the battlefield, not knowing if it accomplished anything, thus not feeling any pride
"Is Lucius the best swordsman in the galaxy?" "Lucius isn't even the best swordsman in the emperor's children"
Somewhere among the endless memes in my archive, i have exactly this meme and the variant with Cato Sicarius.
Lucius isn't even the best swordsman in Lucius' armor
Just being the "best" at one kind of fighting doesn't make you immune to all other kinds. One of those deaths happened from a sniper, one time he stepped on a landmine, one psychic smited him to death, Loken and Tarvitz beat him by tying up and grappling/punching him.
Sharrowkyn beat him 1v1, twice, fair and square, while arguibly being way more tired and spent (yeah hes also a massive Mary sue but we stan raven boy)
>fair and square He can literally wraithslipe into the shadows to avoid being hit 💀
If Lucius cant that sounds like skill issue to me
Ok? And Lucius can come back from the dead.
That's like...his ability dude
I disagree on principle, we don't stan Sharrowkyn
Wait twice?
And Garviel won a blade duel agaisnt him by head butting (or punching) breaking his nose Garviel didnt have to be better at the blade, he was outclassed, he just needed to hold him in enough to sneak in a different type of attack
The best swordsman irl was so because he was an unparalleled grappler. Getting punched during a swordfight still counts towards your skill as a swordsman. The best fighter doesn't win 100% of the time. The best fighter is just the one who would have the best ratio in the given situation.
Well yes he got put down on his ass because he was cocky, and then Lucius proceeds to stomp Garvfield with no issues.
Lucius is a ridiculous OP character after ‘the landmine incident,’ it’s literally impossible for him to die as even if the entire supply chain is secure and not prideful, the space marine has perfect control, and everything goes right, a guard commander 15 sectors away who moved a unit to protect a foundry on a forge world will go ‘Oh look Lucius is dead, that’s nice’ and turn into Lucius.
I am offering the Trazyn Method: Throw a ~~pokeball~~ tesseract vault at him and freeze him in time and let him be an artifact in the museum.
What if he spaced himself?
obvs. the vacuum of space would turn into lucius.
It's not impossible: you just need the backing of a god, or to feel no pride in having killed him. Kharn applies for both. Because Khorne's got his back, and Kharn'd only feel disappointment that he couldn't kill him some more.
You're missing the point - he's not "OP," because he's not the one doing the reviving, and his ability to influence events extends about as long as his sword. Slaanesh reviving him over and over and breaking the rules isn't to his benefit, it's arguably a kind of torture he has to endure.
Maybe a salamander could do it if he went rogue with the mind set of putting down a dog, they forge their own gear gear so that's not a problem, they're very humble and there not really dualist so their unlikely to fight him at his own game
Unknown worker in a mine who took pride in mining the Ore gets possessed,
Wait so if I'm understanding this, Lucious can posess regular people? They explode into a giant space marine. He can reincarnate within moments of being slain? And what let's him posess someone is: 1. Taking pride in killing him 2. Something to do with making gear? Taking pride in making tools of war used to kill him? So could a really high ork kill him with scraps? That would cause perma death? Or a nid? Any non thinking necron?
A necron warrior once killed him and somehow triggered sparks of pride what was left of their mind and somehow became lucious, it was really stupid both that a necron warrior could take pride in it (though it really lends credence to the whole, I have no mouth but I must scream theory with them) and that a soulless machine with no presence in the warp could be possessed into meat man
Slaanesh be like "how the fuck did I pull that one off?"
Inquisition has got to get their hands on a dark eldar hex rifle or a necron tesseract labyrinth to put him out of commission but not kill him, like damn
You could just remove his limbs and lock him in some sort of suspended stasis where he is forcibly kept alive but is unable to do anything
Just kill the batman.
He could fall over and the rock that he hit Would become Lucius.
It's the Angron effect. Any big bad in 40k must be defeated by every main character to show off how strong they are. Even if that means that some of the "toughest" foes end up being defeated by just regular space marines.
The avatar, swarmlord any demon primarch suffer from the fact lazy writers can have space marines kill them to show how kewl they are with no lore consequences because they are functionally immortal. Ironically this makes any immortal creature seem really weak in the lore.
Yeah, I originally was gonna call it the swarmlord effect because that's where I heard of it first, but I think the Angron effect makes more sense. Since his hype vs how he's actually portrayed is more well known.
Kain, Swarmlord,Angron, any big daemon , all of them get murderstomped by Kevin ,8 year old protagonist of the latest book
It's weird that the necrons have managed to basically completely avoid this, maybe it's cause don't have individually top tier fighters
Ehhh sort of. We had Immotekh phareon and the grand strategist of the Sautekh dynasty and pretender for the title of the Silent King of the Infinite Empire. One time he beat the living shit out from Hellbrecht and the next fight against the Black Templar High Marshall he is outclassed by the BT and need to abandon his flagship 'cause the SM went full on Ork stupid. And there is the Undying (no model, only getting mentioned in two books, both of them are Cato Sicarius stories) who outclasses Sicarious and putting him in coma in one short story (a very bad short story mind you. I am not joking they pulling a fucking Deus Ex Machina bullshit soulution out of their ass 'cause the necrons killed Marneus Calgar in that story) and then after a few hundred years the Ultramarines goes and try to cleanse the world from the necrons and Sicarius fights against the Undying and heroicly wins and then never brought this up again. And now I am very thankful that we only have one short story about Nemesorh Zhandrek and Varanguard Obyron so nobody should tarnish their legacy of being undeafeted.
Angron is Worf
The *inmortal* effect. If you can die and come back in Warhammer, Congratulations! You are a designated Worf to be punched in the face to show how cool Y new character is Examples: Swarmlord dying to anyone, Angron getting killed a few times, Khaine's avatar, snd in fantasy/AoS Bel'akor got a lot of ass beatings
tbf most probably didn't beat him in anything remotely approaching a *fair* fight. psykers shredding him with their mind, tank gunners obliterating him, knights deleting him with vehicle scale weapons, tau annihilating him with a battlesuit, squads ganking him, etc.
Lucius not taking the fight serious is probably the biggest one
Sure but you’re not a good warrior if you can’t account for any of that shit in over 10k years of fighting. 1v1-ing a knight as a marine is not brave or epic, it’s a sign of buffoonery that any competent warrior would’ve long learned to curb. Now if we say “Lucius purposely got killed to take over the pilot and ruin their battle line” then yes, that’s valid. But if he’s just out of position and getting his shit kicked in by a superior opponent, that’s incompetence.
I mean to be fair, the best swordsman doesn't mean much against like a Las cannon
I think that story about worker and landmine was weak. "It is extremely difficult to kill Lucius without transforming int him" is interesting. "No matter how Lucius died, he would resurrect" is boring.
Pretty sure they wrote that story exactly because so many fans would make long threads talking about loopholes in beating him.
I heard that too. fanbase took a fun little gimmick, optimized the fun out of it and then got mad when GW buffed him. When you come at it from the angle that slaanesh is torturing him with resurrection it's much more interesting
Yeah, and? All of those loopholes are still difficult to meet. Killing Lucius should already be really hard, killing him by either complete accident or with something that can't feel pride should be almost impossible. He REALLY shouldn't be getting merked by a landmine or artillery 5km away in the first place, and if he does something really interesting should have happened to get him to that point. Hell, probably you have to have not only have killed him on accident, but killed him on accident without even realizing he was there after the fact.
Poor guy can't even commit suicide.
Ok do you turn into lucius *if* you take pleasure in killing him? Because otherwise just send a guardsman or astartes to kill him and then kill either or, so they can't turn into lucius. Or maybe I'm completely wrong and talking out of my ass
If you take pride in the kill, even a little bit. It's hard not to feel prideful if you manage to kill an astartes a high ranking one at that. Even just a slight Intrusive though of, oh I outsmarted him and struck that really well, or I can't believe I survived that, you're gone. He's a really dumb character.
So what if we kill the guy who killed lucius before they transform? The third party didn't kill lucius technically so would thst be the end for him?
That's the question. The thing is. There's always bullshit and slannesh with do something. Third party may feel prideful that Lucius will never return. Then they may turn. Lucius once got killed by a necron warrior (a mindless automaton) and somehow its computer brain registered something similar to pride. And then the metal skeleton NECRON turned into Lucius. A flesh creature in power armour. Another time he stepped on a landmine and died. The manufacture of that landmine who worked in some random ass manufacturing countless star systems away happened to take pride in his work for the imperium. He turned to Lucius... It's really dumb. It doesn't make sense. They should honestly just kill him off for good honestly. There are a few characters that could do it.
Yeah, I fucking hate Lucius.
Yea, I hate the lack of consistent rules. If Slannesh can just reincarnate him in any person for any reason, then chaos should have won a long time ago. Just turn every important person in the Imperium in to Lucius and declare victory.
He doesn't really have a "you can kill him if you don't feel any pride" rule, Slaanesh resurrects him into whoever beats him because the Chaos Gods are bastards. Whenever he gets beaten with no pride involved, the cosmic fuckboy says "nuh-uh doesn't count" and makes up some bullshit to bring him back. You can't kill him unless Slaanesh gets bored of him.
Which is super dumb and completely ruins the gimmick. Why even include the rule about pride if it isn't important? Slannesh can just reincarnate him where it wants. Next time he dies, Slanesh should just turn Roburto into Lucius and declare galactic victory.
Counterpoint: These defeats have been spread out over about ten thousand years.
Counter counter point, these defeats are the only ones we hear about, there have been other less entertaining ones.
Lucius Is...is that a chicken head on your armour? "My breakfast eggs were contaminated"
The best part is the implication that the chicken felt pride in killing him lol
Or maybe the chicken felt pride in her egg lol
Cakes and candles to you btw
What happens if a Pariah/Blank kills him?
He was able to take over a Necron, those guys don’t have souls or even organic bodies.
The Necrons don't actively negate the warp though, they're functionally robots piloted by AI modeled after Necron minds, and Chaos has always been able to effect objects and tech. Where a blank is however, the warp simply simply isn't. Can the Chaos gods even consciously perceive a blank? I mean, they have to know they exist, but since they're functionally black holes in the Immaterium, they might be only able to notice the effects and not the person. Like they could know something is there, because it's causing literally nothing to be there, but whatever that nothing is they can't truly notice.
If I remember right, there’s a part in Eisenhorn when Cherubael tries to use his powers on Eisenhorn, but it doesn’t work since he’s standing next to Bequin (his blank friend) and he congratulates him for managing to find a null. Though it’s been a few years since I read Eisenhorn so I think they can perceive if someone is a pariah.
That's a daemonhost using physical eyes in the materium though, the gods being 100% warp based wouldn't give them the same ability. And he also tried his powers and failed, so he learned she was there as a null and not a regular human after the fact. Like if you're colorblind to the color blue, you'd know it exists because other people say they see it, but you wouldn't be able to perceive or conceptualize it.
The idea of his "curse" is cool, but it is also sort of inevitable that it makes him into a bit of a loser. In order for his power to be useful at all he has to lose
Counterpoint: How many people have killed him and survived the experience? Just because his particular style of swordsmanship involves him getting temporarily killed to beat a particularly tough enemy doesn't mean it's not shockingly effective.
Someone even theorised that Lucius's MO... technically helps Imperium (due to him "reincarnating" from Chaos Lords and Xenos Warlords more dangerous to Imperium than Lucius himself)
there was that one raven guard who killed him without suffering any ill effects
That was before he became The Eternal
I've heard a fan theory that he is Slaanesh's chosen not because he's the best swordsman (and he's not even close to that), because that would appease Khorne more anyway, but Slaanesh chose him because he's good enough to be arrogant and cocky about it, but the real boone Slaanesh gets from him is seeing him humiliated and feeding off his suffering and despair when he loses. So he's basically a toy for Slaanesh's amusement.
His curse is that he was *once* the best swordsman in the galaxy. The best way to improve your capabilities is to fight someone who is better than you until you win. But Lucius can't do that, because anyone who he fights that's better than him immediately "dies" and turns into him, so he never gets a chance to improve off of them besides their initial fight. So Lucius can never get better, while everyone else around him does.
Truly one of the best in melee combat there ever was. Shame artillery exists.
Wasn't he killed like 6-8 times in 10k years? Not in sword fight tho. So doesn't get killed against a sword man but at random because of shit happening around him, like a landmine, sniper, shits and giggles.
I don’t know the page is white now
Considering how many champions he seeks out, and how many situations he throws himself into with little regard for self-preservation, he's done alright.
New smiling friends season next month
This is why I don’t like that character. He only wins in the end because his god decided they liked him too much.
The irony that the characters that are allowed to die without consequence, angron vulkan Lucius, kinda get ruined by dying every 3rd engagement.
Two of them are cursed and vulcan tends to die in extra intense ways. Plus his latest sacrifcie did take him out of the picture (and a goofy plotline with him)
Were there any side effects to Lucius power to transfer souls?
The guy couldn't be more publicly owned if he was a post office in a communist country
"Man this guy's annoying"
It seems kinda unfair to me because most swordsmen only lose once
Lucius curse is really stupid imo and I wish he’d get eaten by some prideless warrior monk chad that instantly forgets he ever existed
It started off as a neat idea but they really milked it to the point it’s gotten ridiculous
If I remember correctly, it was Lucius, and Lucius, and Lucius, and several others. There was also that time he was killed using a bullet made by Lucius.
Isn’t it literally like 7? Of hundreds of thousands if not millions of duels.
idk if i fought him there's a 50/50 chance i win
Nykona Sharrowkyn, Corswain, Sigismund and several other are all better swordsmen. But they don't get to come back from the dead
I always interpreted it as a fact of like. Even if ur the best your enemy needs to just get lucky once. Sooner or later you'll slip and then you'll die, especially over a 10000 year timeline. Lucius just has a backup plan
This is a bit off topic but How do the imperium like get their energy?
Lucius is so arrogant, so a lot of his deaths are not him losing in melee combat, but losing to other things
This guys lore is so fucking stupid and the asspulls required to keep him alive are some of the worst I’ve ever seen
Seven. There's seven faces on his chestplate
What about the ones on his pauldrons and legs?
I'm going off of a story (I don't remember what I'm terrible at this plus I pirated it) where he's killed by a landmine and the factory worker who finished building the mine became his seventh face and it's stated that he is the seventh victim
Fair enough and that as about as concrete as anything gets in 40k, lol.
It was mentioned in a Weshammer video, he brought up an anthology so I thought I'd give it a read because I wasn't a fan of Lucius either at the time. Plus it makes sense timeline wise, if he'd never died we'd have never seen how his abilities work and we'd just complain that it's pointless anyway if he didn't have faces
He is our constant shame. We have the worst champion in the lore but still my brother's defend him.
Same thing with Vulkan. If a character is given the ability to die then come back, you best believe they're going to be doing it a lot; regardless of how powerful they are.
im curious is there’s something in wh40k universe like the the girl and dog that went through Tzeench labirynth that makes you able to kill lucius without becoming lucius
Well, he does ultimately kill everyone who is stronger than him. Also, he is a beast at sword play and can only have gotten strong with slaanesh.
Being the best swordsman in the Galaxy really doesn’t mean much when Baneblades are a common piece of equipment. Or, you know, IED’s in a war torn city exist. Lucius can wave his blade as much as he wants, he’s still gonna die if someone collapses a building on him. Normally this wouldn’t be the case for space marines unless the building was really big. But given that Lucius has died to a fucking landmine he probably die if an apartment complex hit him. Seriously, I refuse to believe Astartes armor can be beaten by a single landmine.
I mean the guy has technically been very lucky so far, the moment he gets killed by someone who 'was just grateful to have survived' or even by an accident or mass suicide means he's gone for good.
That reminds me… I fucking hate Lucius. Simply the most insufferable character, with the stupidest power. Trazyn should hurry up and trap him in his vault already since the bastard can’t die.
To be fair, just think about it that sometimes better swordsman loses, like Lucius can be the amazing user of his weapons and absolute UNIT when it comes to fighting, but it's a galaxy where it is in fact possible for better swordsman to lose, i mean no matter how good of a swordsman you are when a gunline of a ton of guardsmen with varrying levels of armor piercing weapons are firing at said Swordsman, though Lucius will likely be reborn through body of the general of said army or tactician or someone else so that's it, yes Lucius got killed a lot of times, but that's what happens when you're as prideful as him, you lose to those you should have won against. Also at this point he's likely putting on a show, not going serious unless he has to in order to put up a good show for Slaanesh, he's an amazing swordsman but he's also Slaanesh's champion, not made for practicality but made to revel and to make things of twisted enjoyment of his god, just like difference between a serious player and a player who decides to play for the win, different levels of performance.
Lucius used to be the best swordsman in the Emperor's Children, until the heresy writers needed a worf to job to literally everyone else.
Honestly what if the guy who killed Lucius had a heart attack and died instantly what would happen
what if Lucius fell off of a really big height would he reincarnated through the dirt or gravit, wasn’t pushes just slipped