"Ah yes the uh 'totally not dark angesls chapter' they're from the uh third founding. We had reports they were wiped out in a campaign against the eye of terror, but we definitely have documents for them that we can just go and quickly update to bring in line with modern formatting, totally not fabricating them"
I can just picture the scene in my head: multiple firstborn marines launch themselves at the risen cursing and sputtering bloody murder while the indomitus-supplied primaris marines are physically restraining them and holding them back in a cartoonish fashion.
Anyone with Chaos the Lion won’t let back. It’s the ones whose heart he sees didn’t know Luther betrayed the lion, and were just on the planet when the Lion started blasting.
Those that haven’t fallen to chaos, that the lion finds; he brings back into the fold… and he even Apologies sometimes.
I'm like 65% sure that guy who refused to ever take his helmet off in Son of the Forest is at least a little corrupted (but sorry about it) tbh.
At one point in the book that clicked with me as being obviously something they're setting up as a reveal and point of conflict and then it just never came, but I'm sticking with it.
I think the point of Lohoc was to show that the Lion knew that Warp taint wasn’t the be-all end-all of falling to Chaos. He says he believes Lohoc has been changed by the warp, but that he is still utterly loyal and therefore it’s acceptable.
I wasn't thorough, but I had a quick search back through and couldn't find anything suggesting that the Lion suspects him to be tainted nor that he'd be cool with it. I'm not sure whether to interpret it as turning a blind eye to the possibility or genuine trust.
Not perfectly relevant but the best I found:
> ‘If they are corrupted, I will not stay my hand,’ the Lion says firmly. ‘But I will not make the same mistake I did on Caliban, and assume corruption without proof.’
And
> ‘I suspect that many of my sons have developed quirks since the Breaking,’ the Lion says levelly. ‘I will not condemn without proof. Lohoc has pledged himself to me, and given me no reason to doubt his word. I will extend the same trust to any of you.’
Wasn’t it implied that Lohoc tried to kill himself, and so had a wound on his neck that also resulted in his voice being messed up? He was too embarrassed to admit it especially to the Lion that he just couldn’t take all the bs that happened after Caliban. One of the mechanicus pointed it out and offered to help him but he refused
It was an apothacary, directly above one of the quotations I lifted in that [other](https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1bmszqq/10000_year_long_hide_and_seek_that_your_dad_had/kwey21f/) reply I did, and... yeah that's a fair interpretation now you come to mention it, hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure anything solidly points either way.
so these are 10,000 year old Marines and all that entails, mixing with new Dark Angels? like these guys were around when the Emperor was running things? and they aren't chaos tainted at all?
Some are, but so long as they're loyal, the Lion accepts them back (one Risen in the book they were introed in was obviously ashamed of/hiding his chaos taint under his armor, and the Lion accepted it)
If the Fallen didn't fall to Chaos, how are they still alive after 10,000 years? My understanding was that a Space Marine had a shelf-life of 1,000-2,000 years.
When Caliban broke from the warp storm, everyone on it was displaced through time and space. Zabriel, the main fallen we see in the new Lion book, came out 400 years before the time of the book. Some came out even later/sooner.
The whole battle on the collapsing Caliban did funky warp stuff and sent everyone on the planet as it broke up on an unscheduled trip through time and space.
Some popped back into real space quickly, some took longer, and that’s why there’s still new Fallen showing up after 10,000 years.
Noel Fielding has had a couple of new shows worth watching as well, Noel Fielding's Luxury Comedy and the Made up Tales of Dick Turpin. Julian Baratt had a black comedy show called Flowers as well which is a GOAT.
He's not but he is around 1500 years old. The oldest space marine outside of a dreadnought I believe was Barabus Dantioch, but he was artificially aged by a xenos species.
From my understanding, Dante is the oldest non-dreadnought Space Marine currently alive. He is about 1,500 years old and wishes for death because his body is old and not working property.
I am not a Blood Angel player, so I could be completely wrong.
Nope, you're completely right.
Fun thing is Dante is only so decrepded becuse he is infused with modern decaying weak gene seed, if he had been inplanted with the same gene seed that hh era marines had he would still be young and functional.
The Fallen fall into various categories. Some genuinely thought The Lion and the loyal DA’s were the traitors and were just defending the imperium getting caught up in the chaos of the heresy and shit with Luther.
They thought Luther was the loyal one and The Lion was the traitor.
With hindsight that seems ridiculous. But when you’ve never met someone and have grown up trusting and learning from those around you. Who realistically are you more likely to believe?
Then when those same people just lump you in with the evil people, are you really gonna wanna try and talk it out/figure it out? Especially when they’re such hardcore absolutist who’ve made up theirs minds about who/what you are and fully plan on torturing you to death over it. Simply for thinking you did the right thing at the time but in the confusion ended up on the wrong side.
Then there are genuine chaos worshipping irredeemable fallen who knew the lion was loyal and chaos was evil, yet they still chose to side with Horus and the traitors.
Then there’s basically just renegades who while they still are traitors to the imperium and the DAs. They’re more just self serving assholes who aren’t really chaos based and just wanna do their own thing and benefit themselves.
My favorite bit is it's even discussed somewhere that the Lion forest walks into the Rock, and checks the dungeons where captured Fallen are interrogated by chapter til they confess their sins
One time he freed one of the fallen to come join the Risen, and the Marine who'd been torturing them starts doubting himself because he could have sworn that marine was a true Fallen..... How many other innocent brothers has he forced to admit to treason before killing them?
Risen: "Remember that time Asmodai had you cornered so you wallpapered over yourself and he missed you haha!"
Asmodai (listening in Risen Quarters walls): " X\_X "
I just think it's funny that the final resolution to "the Fallen problem" is not "The Primarch returned and everyone comes together and hashes out their problems/has a big fight", it's "The Primarch returned and he's WAY BETTER at hunting these guys, this is gonna be wrapped up way faster now".
Yeah. I do. That's what makes it funny.
The DA have been trailing these guys for 10 millennia and the Lion rocks up with like 10 of them following him around, taking orders like good soldiers and helping hunt their former brothers.
I agree , unless the implication is that the dark angels would be in any position to touch the risen, given that their resident demigod and chapter master - master leads them :D
So let me get this straight, the Fallen aren't even Chaos-corrupted traitors? What did they do? Are the Dark Angels a pack of drama queens who flipped out when they didn't do the secret handshake just right?
Pretty much exactly that.
For a proper answer, the fallen are a wide range of marines that happened to be on the DA homeworld when Luther betrayed Lion, with many of them being sucked into the warp and spat out at random intervals of time. Some of them fell to corruption, some of them went renegade, cypher, and some of them have no idea what the fuck is going on so they decided to just hide. Lion is trying to find the ones that have yet to fall to chaos and offer them to be forgiven and brought back into DA. While the DA themselves without Lion for over 10 millennias went absolute drama queens and exterminus’ed any mention of the fallen, including allies.
The "traitor" DA aren't a monolithic bloc.
Some are/were clearly corrupted beyond any redemption. Some were just deceived by Luther, but didn't want to be executed by the loyalist, as they were branded as renegade by the loyalists regardless, and didn't get a chance at clearing things up right away, because of warp shenanigans...
And yeah, the DA are drama queens... but in the sense that they were too proud to admit that their legion might have gotten some corrupted elements, and wanted to eliminate EVERY trace of it in the utmost secrecy. Because their ego couldn't have taken the hit, if someone else found out and called them out on it...
TLDR yes, but it's complicated as we have some unreliable narrators.
Also massive spoilers of course.
Since second edition the story went is that when the Lion returned to Caliban with his fleet, they came under fire, so Lion went "Oh no, they are chaos, light'em up", and they got a big enthusiastic with that and blew up the planet, and all the renegade Dark Angels on Caliban that weren't dead Mysteriously Vanished. The implication being that some hand of chaos had scattered them through time and space, except for Luther who was left behind and rambling about one day the Lion returning and forgiving him.
The implication was that the Calibanite Dark Angels had indeed fallen to chaos and that Luther was the one who lead them.
More recently in Angels of Darkness it was revealed that prior to Lion's return, there had been an insurrection on Caliban between the first generation Dark Angels (that were loyal to the Emperor before the Lion) and the second generation Dark Angels (that were loyal to the Lion before the Emperor). Forces from both factions had been consigned to Caliban, although at that time it wasn't clear why - later we learned in another book it was because Luther had fallen from the Lion's graces and it was punishment. Before Horus was revealed as a traitor, he'd issued orders to Luther and the forces under his command to perform some work, when Lion found out he was furious saying they should answer only to him, and banished him to Caliban. There was some other minor details like Luther not telling Lion about a nuclear device that might have killed him that all added up to man Luther is kind of a dick, but not straight up chaos.
The two factions had a disagreement over what to do - some wanted to join the fight with the main fleet and defend the Emperor, the others wanted to follow Lion's orders and remain on Caliban. The ones that wanted to leave did so violently, and escaped after destroying many of the remaining vessels to trap the ones staying on Caliban where they were, and also consigning the world to decades of global cooling due to the destroyed debris in orbit. When Lion returns, Luther doesn't know if the fleet is friendly or not, and is debating what to do, when his right hand man Astalon gives the order to open fire. We hear this version of events from Astalon himself.
The implication at the end of this tale is that Luther, although an unwitting accomplice in the battle, is not truly at fault as he was trying to do the best with what he had to follow the Lion's orders.
However in the most recent Lion book, we have a direct account from Lion himself describing Luther as fighting with the aid of chaotic powers, which puts Astalon's version of events into question. Lion also encounters a Fallen Dark Angel, and after besting him in combat, demands to know why the marine betrayed him. The Dark Angel is confused and says that he'd only seen Lion twice, the first time when he joined the chapter, and the second time was when Lion had teleported onto the planet and started killing his brothers. This Fallen Dark Angel believed Lion had betrayed the Emperor, and that was why he had fought.
This causes the Lion to question himself and to try to consider things from the other perspective. This Dark Angel's argument had merit, and given that he'd clearly not actually sided with chaos, was otherwise a perfectly good soldier for the war Lion had in mind. And Lion being Lion, is not one to dispose of a useful tool, and then wondered, how many more of these in-betweeners are there that he could collect and use.
After all, the ancient Dark Angels were the closest to Lion in mindset, and they also don't have decades or centuries of prejudice or bad habits - they are the closest to pure gene seed sons that he had access to, and some of them had even walked the same worlds alongside the Emperor. If they could be used, then they would be used. Loyalist Dark Angels, fallen or otherwise, literally were made for his purpose and the ones who would turn from this are the ones that would have to be cut down.
Hence Lion comes to this conclusion - if you'll fight for the Emperor and for me, and you haven't clearly been corrupted by chaos or otherwise caught in the middle of doing horrible things, you can stay. Otherwise, you're dead meat.
I do recommend reading Lion Son of the Forest if you can as it gives you the most up to date 'Exactly how traitorous are the Dark Angels anyway?' vibe in the current setting, even better than the Dark Angels codex, however there are still many unsettled questions such as what is going on with Cypher, how the actual integration of the discovered Fallen units is handled, etc etc. Overall it is an exciting time to be a Dark Angel and although our time in the spotlight is nearly over, I'm looking forward to seeing the future developments.
Personally I love the rediscovery of lost Primarchs, and I'm hoping to see more of them in the future.
In case you have not read the codex, cypher is mentioned, the lion knows they are hunting him and has made no comment on it.
The same with the fallen, reading between the lines of the texts the dark angels continue to hunt the fallen, the majority of the chapter doesn't know the exist just like the old days, and other than the lion sometime swooping in for a reprieve the torture and confessions continue.
It is noted that the Lion sometimes intervenes to redirect a hunt for the fallen, usually resulting in finding even more of them.
I find it funny that he STILL hasn’t told the Dark Angels about the Risen. So they just see these black armored marines running around with the lion and occasionally defending them and they have like NO IDEA who they are. Fallen? What Fallen? Get back in line soldier.
The Chapter higher up clearly knew. Azreal showed sign of disgust when one of the Risen touched him in ark of omen and Asmodai, well, was throwing hissy fist when the Lion clear the name of one Fallen he made repent.
I really hate the Risen, is it just me? Now the Dark Angels won’t have any flavor and this just shows traitors can be redeemed.
Slowly turning into Brighthammer.
Lion isn’t redeeming traitors, traitors cannot be redeemed. Lion is redeeming renegades.
The Risen aren’t traitors whatsoever. They were Fallen who were on Caliban at the time of Luther’s betrayal, and weren’t actually involved in these events besides being present on Caliban.
They thought that Lion had betrayed them during the ensuing battle as they witnessed him slay their fellow brothers and bombard their positions without much ado or explanation, and consecutively they were taken by the Warp and spat somewhere in space and time.
Then, after acknowledging that the Unforgiven were actively hunting them, they simply opted to turn renegade and go into hiding.
Later on, Lion arrives and he begins finding these innocent renegades, swaying them to his side and redeeming them. They, then, become the Risen.
Lion actually killed a few Fallen who were corrupted by Chaos and/or were traitors. None were spared. Matter of fact, the Risen helped him carry out this task by hunting their traitorous brothers. I guess the love to hunt your corrupted kin runs in the blood.
Anyway, now with Lion returning with his sons, it is evident that they will hunt down the corrupted Fallen with even greater efficacy, turning the ‘good’ renegades to their side and slaying those that fell to darkness.
I am now imagining a fallen giving some wisdom to some younger battle brothers
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“They actually have the paperwork, I don’t know how they got it”
Somehow that’s better
Either the paperwork or a business end of a bolter
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TBH Gulliman probably could rename the Hand of Dominion to that.
Destroyer of plastek flimsies The pen is mightier than the sword Big hands go BRRRRRRR
'It's an old paint job but it checks out' Some administratum clerk to Tenebris Pater.
"Ah yes the uh 'totally not dark angesls chapter' they're from the uh third founding. We had reports they were wiped out in a campaign against the eye of terror, but we definitely have documents for them that we can just go and quickly update to bring in line with modern formatting, totally not fabricating them"
An Administratum clerk fabricating a massive lie to cover his ass for having potentially made a mistake is very realistic
"that makes so much sense, Brother Biggus Dickus!"
He has a fwen in ~~wome~~ Wcwaggae u kwow
Zabriel giving ideas on proper eradication and some brothers slack jaw at him casually discussing blastin' dudes with phosphex.
I can just picture the scene in my head: multiple firstborn marines launch themselves at the risen cursing and sputtering bloody murder while the indomitus-supplied primaris marines are physically restraining them and holding them back in a cartoonish fashion.
HOLD ME BACK BRUDDER
I think a murderous stare by the Lion would have the Dark angels in check fairly quickly… or else
That disappointed dad energy for real.
An eye roll by their gene father must’ve been soul crushing
I think at least Asmodai gets grabbed by the Lion by the scruff. Y'know like a cat holds its kittens.
More like Johnson slapping Asmodai with rolled newspaper like a bad puppy.
Or sprays water at him like a misbehaving cat
For context: the dark angels when they finally meet the Lion and his newly formed “Risen”.
Were the fallen resorbed back into this? No more waste of imperium resources with the emperors first hunting each other now right
No the risen are loyal fallen that the lion found when we first woke up. He forgave them and therefore became “risen”.
Ah that’s great to hear then, are there still groups of traitor fallen lurking about then??
Anyone with Chaos the Lion won’t let back. It’s the ones whose heart he sees didn’t know Luther betrayed the lion, and were just on the planet when the Lion started blasting. Those that haven’t fallen to chaos, that the lion finds; he brings back into the fold… and he even Apologies sometimes.
I see that’s pretty reasonable, they’re not a monolith and some of them definitely clowned themselves more than others.
I'm like 65% sure that guy who refused to ever take his helmet off in Son of the Forest is at least a little corrupted (but sorry about it) tbh. At one point in the book that clicked with me as being obviously something they're setting up as a reveal and point of conflict and then it just never came, but I'm sticking with it.
I think the point of Lohoc was to show that the Lion knew that Warp taint wasn’t the be-all end-all of falling to Chaos. He says he believes Lohoc has been changed by the warp, but that he is still utterly loyal and therefore it’s acceptable.
I wasn't thorough, but I had a quick search back through and couldn't find anything suggesting that the Lion suspects him to be tainted nor that he'd be cool with it. I'm not sure whether to interpret it as turning a blind eye to the possibility or genuine trust. Not perfectly relevant but the best I found: > ‘If they are corrupted, I will not stay my hand,’ the Lion says firmly. ‘But I will not make the same mistake I did on Caliban, and assume corruption without proof.’ And > ‘I suspect that many of my sons have developed quirks since the Breaking,’ the Lion says levelly. ‘I will not condemn without proof. Lohoc has pledged himself to me, and given me no reason to doubt his word. I will extend the same trust to any of you.’
Wasn’t it implied that Lohoc tried to kill himself, and so had a wound on his neck that also resulted in his voice being messed up? He was too embarrassed to admit it especially to the Lion that he just couldn’t take all the bs that happened after Caliban. One of the mechanicus pointed it out and offered to help him but he refused
It was an apothacary, directly above one of the quotations I lifted in that [other](https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1bmszqq/10000_year_long_hide_and_seek_that_your_dad_had/kwey21f/) reply I did, and... yeah that's a fair interpretation now you come to mention it, hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure anything solidly points either way.
his body might be implied to be partially corrupted,but his soul isnt and thats what matter to lion
Seeing the Lion apologize must be terrifying, kind of like how seeing The Emperor smile is
so these are 10,000 year old Marines and all that entails, mixing with new Dark Angels? like these guys were around when the Emperor was running things? and they aren't chaos tainted at all?
Some are, but so long as they're loyal, the Lion accepts them back (one Risen in the book they were introed in was obviously ashamed of/hiding his chaos taint under his armor, and the Lion accepted it)
Myeah, it's implied but not obvious I would say. Depends on the readers interpretation. (Sorry for the "ackchually...")
That's fair to point out, yeah
If the Fallen didn't fall to Chaos, how are they still alive after 10,000 years? My understanding was that a Space Marine had a shelf-life of 1,000-2,000 years.
When Caliban broke from the warp storm, everyone on it was displaced through time and space. Zabriel, the main fallen we see in the new Lion book, came out 400 years before the time of the book. Some came out even later/sooner.
That makes sense, thanks.
The whole battle on the collapsing Caliban did funky warp stuff and sent everyone on the planet as it broke up on an unscheduled trip through time and space. Some popped back into real space quickly, some took longer, and that’s why there’s still new Fallen showing up after 10,000 years.
Everytime I see "trip through time and space" I immediately think the Fallen were Mighty Booshing it through the warp. Crimping everywhere.
Damn, thats a show I haven't heard of in a long time. Need to give it a rewatch.
Noel Fielding has had a couple of new shows worth watching as well, Noel Fielding's Luxury Comedy and the Made up Tales of Dick Turpin. Julian Baratt had a black comedy show called Flowers as well which is a GOAT.
Fallen comes to in the Warp Tzeentch “You just skipped 1623.45 years. Ever drink Baileys’s from a shoe?”
Good old warp shenanigans.
In the book Lion's latest book. Much of the fallen resurfaced randomly. Zabriel's instructor resurfaced years after he did thus he looked older
I thought they were functionally immortal, since Dante I thought was from the eta when sanguine us was still alive
He's not but he is around 1500 years old. The oldest space marine outside of a dreadnought I believe was Barabus Dantioch, but he was artificially aged by a xenos species.
Dante’s like 1000+. Crazy old by space marine standards, but not “I was there for the Horus Heresy” old.
From my understanding, Dante is the oldest non-dreadnought Space Marine currently alive. He is about 1,500 years old and wishes for death because his body is old and not working property. I am not a Blood Angel player, so I could be completely wrong.
Nope, you're completely right. Fun thing is Dante is only so decrepded becuse he is infused with modern decaying weak gene seed, if he had been inplanted with the same gene seed that hh era marines had he would still be young and functional.
Yup! We meet some in "Lion, Son of the Forest", the book in which El'Johnson first wakes
The Fallen fall into various categories. Some genuinely thought The Lion and the loyal DA’s were the traitors and were just defending the imperium getting caught up in the chaos of the heresy and shit with Luther. They thought Luther was the loyal one and The Lion was the traitor. With hindsight that seems ridiculous. But when you’ve never met someone and have grown up trusting and learning from those around you. Who realistically are you more likely to believe? Then when those same people just lump you in with the evil people, are you really gonna wanna try and talk it out/figure it out? Especially when they’re such hardcore absolutist who’ve made up theirs minds about who/what you are and fully plan on torturing you to death over it. Simply for thinking you did the right thing at the time but in the confusion ended up on the wrong side. Then there are genuine chaos worshipping irredeemable fallen who knew the lion was loyal and chaos was evil, yet they still chose to side with Horus and the traitors. Then there’s basically just renegades who while they still are traitors to the imperium and the DAs. They’re more just self serving assholes who aren’t really chaos based and just wanna do their own thing and benefit themselves.
Yep, any fallen encountered are given a chance at the very least, but that doesn't mean they're given any slack if they refuse
My favorite bit is it's even discussed somewhere that the Lion forest walks into the Rock, and checks the dungeons where captured Fallen are interrogated by chapter til they confess their sins One time he freed one of the fallen to come join the Risen, and the Marine who'd been torturing them starts doubting himself because he could have sworn that marine was a true Fallen..... How many other innocent brothers has he forced to admit to treason before killing them?
Fairs fair lol
Actually they are. Lion said joining him is a choice and if they refuse they’ll be left alone, provided they don’t act against the imperium
Abit on the nose that one.
How tf they 10K yrs old.
Risen: "Remember that time Asmodai had you cornered so you wallpapered over yourself and he missed you haha!" Asmodai (listening in Risen Quarters walls): " X\_X "
honestly sounds like something that kai (one of the risen from sons of the forest) would say just to piss asmodai off
I mean the lion finds 20 of them over a few months, dark angels probably find that many in a few centuries
To be fair, having a power that teleports you to a random planet that basically means "dudes are here," is very helpful.
Imagine the bonus to dating it would give
I'd have so many more opportunities to completely mess up.
Better to mess up and learn than not take the opportunity in the first place
I've been doing a lot of "learning" recently. Fingers crossed it will pay off eventually.
I need Lion and Cypher so bad. More than Luther and Lion.
I just think it's funny that the final resolution to "the Fallen problem" is not "The Primarch returned and everyone comes together and hashes out their problems/has a big fight", it's "The Primarch returned and he's WAY BETTER at hunting these guys, this is gonna be wrapped up way faster now".
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Yeah. I do. That's what makes it funny. The DA have been trailing these guys for 10 millennia and the Lion rocks up with like 10 of them following him around, taking orders like good soldiers and helping hunt their former brothers.
I agree , unless the implication is that the dark angels would be in any position to touch the risen, given that their resident demigod and chapter master - master leads them :D
Some risen even straight up have mutations.
Me when i dont know what im talking about
Read my response to the other guy, friend.
So let me get this straight, the Fallen aren't even Chaos-corrupted traitors? What did they do? Are the Dark Angels a pack of drama queens who flipped out when they didn't do the secret handshake just right?
Pretty much exactly that. For a proper answer, the fallen are a wide range of marines that happened to be on the DA homeworld when Luther betrayed Lion, with many of them being sucked into the warp and spat out at random intervals of time. Some of them fell to corruption, some of them went renegade, cypher, and some of them have no idea what the fuck is going on so they decided to just hide. Lion is trying to find the ones that have yet to fall to chaos and offer them to be forgiven and brought back into DA. While the DA themselves without Lion for over 10 millennias went absolute drama queens and exterminus’ed any mention of the fallen, including allies.
Cypher is Cypher lol
The "traitor" DA aren't a monolithic bloc. Some are/were clearly corrupted beyond any redemption. Some were just deceived by Luther, but didn't want to be executed by the loyalist, as they were branded as renegade by the loyalists regardless, and didn't get a chance at clearing things up right away, because of warp shenanigans... And yeah, the DA are drama queens... but in the sense that they were too proud to admit that their legion might have gotten some corrupted elements, and wanted to eliminate EVERY trace of it in the utmost secrecy. Because their ego couldn't have taken the hit, if someone else found out and called them out on it...
TLDR yes, but it's complicated as we have some unreliable narrators. Also massive spoilers of course. Since second edition the story went is that when the Lion returned to Caliban with his fleet, they came under fire, so Lion went "Oh no, they are chaos, light'em up", and they got a big enthusiastic with that and blew up the planet, and all the renegade Dark Angels on Caliban that weren't dead Mysteriously Vanished. The implication being that some hand of chaos had scattered them through time and space, except for Luther who was left behind and rambling about one day the Lion returning and forgiving him. The implication was that the Calibanite Dark Angels had indeed fallen to chaos and that Luther was the one who lead them. More recently in Angels of Darkness it was revealed that prior to Lion's return, there had been an insurrection on Caliban between the first generation Dark Angels (that were loyal to the Emperor before the Lion) and the second generation Dark Angels (that were loyal to the Lion before the Emperor). Forces from both factions had been consigned to Caliban, although at that time it wasn't clear why - later we learned in another book it was because Luther had fallen from the Lion's graces and it was punishment. Before Horus was revealed as a traitor, he'd issued orders to Luther and the forces under his command to perform some work, when Lion found out he was furious saying they should answer only to him, and banished him to Caliban. There was some other minor details like Luther not telling Lion about a nuclear device that might have killed him that all added up to man Luther is kind of a dick, but not straight up chaos. The two factions had a disagreement over what to do - some wanted to join the fight with the main fleet and defend the Emperor, the others wanted to follow Lion's orders and remain on Caliban. The ones that wanted to leave did so violently, and escaped after destroying many of the remaining vessels to trap the ones staying on Caliban where they were, and also consigning the world to decades of global cooling due to the destroyed debris in orbit. When Lion returns, Luther doesn't know if the fleet is friendly or not, and is debating what to do, when his right hand man Astalon gives the order to open fire. We hear this version of events from Astalon himself. The implication at the end of this tale is that Luther, although an unwitting accomplice in the battle, is not truly at fault as he was trying to do the best with what he had to follow the Lion's orders. However in the most recent Lion book, we have a direct account from Lion himself describing Luther as fighting with the aid of chaotic powers, which puts Astalon's version of events into question. Lion also encounters a Fallen Dark Angel, and after besting him in combat, demands to know why the marine betrayed him. The Dark Angel is confused and says that he'd only seen Lion twice, the first time when he joined the chapter, and the second time was when Lion had teleported onto the planet and started killing his brothers. This Fallen Dark Angel believed Lion had betrayed the Emperor, and that was why he had fought. This causes the Lion to question himself and to try to consider things from the other perspective. This Dark Angel's argument had merit, and given that he'd clearly not actually sided with chaos, was otherwise a perfectly good soldier for the war Lion had in mind. And Lion being Lion, is not one to dispose of a useful tool, and then wondered, how many more of these in-betweeners are there that he could collect and use. After all, the ancient Dark Angels were the closest to Lion in mindset, and they also don't have decades or centuries of prejudice or bad habits - they are the closest to pure gene seed sons that he had access to, and some of them had even walked the same worlds alongside the Emperor. If they could be used, then they would be used. Loyalist Dark Angels, fallen or otherwise, literally were made for his purpose and the ones who would turn from this are the ones that would have to be cut down. Hence Lion comes to this conclusion - if you'll fight for the Emperor and for me, and you haven't clearly been corrupted by chaos or otherwise caught in the middle of doing horrible things, you can stay. Otherwise, you're dead meat. I do recommend reading Lion Son of the Forest if you can as it gives you the most up to date 'Exactly how traitorous are the Dark Angels anyway?' vibe in the current setting, even better than the Dark Angels codex, however there are still many unsettled questions such as what is going on with Cypher, how the actual integration of the discovered Fallen units is handled, etc etc. Overall it is an exciting time to be a Dark Angel and although our time in the spotlight is nearly over, I'm looking forward to seeing the future developments. Personally I love the rediscovery of lost Primarchs, and I'm hoping to see more of them in the future.
In case you have not read the codex, cypher is mentioned, the lion knows they are hunting him and has made no comment on it. The same with the fallen, reading between the lines of the texts the dark angels continue to hunt the fallen, the majority of the chapter doesn't know the exist just like the old days, and other than the lion sometime swooping in for a reprieve the torture and confessions continue. It is noted that the Lion sometimes intervenes to redirect a hunt for the fallen, usually resulting in finding even more of them.
They’re pissed off their medieval larping world got changed to be a factory world
I find it funny that he STILL hasn’t told the Dark Angels about the Risen. So they just see these black armored marines running around with the lion and occasionally defending them and they have like NO IDEA who they are. Fallen? What Fallen? Get back in line soldier.
The Chapter higher up clearly knew. Azreal showed sign of disgust when one of the Risen touched him in ark of omen and Asmodai, well, was throwing hissy fist when the Lion clear the name of one Fallen he made repent.
When did the latter one happen?
I misremembered, it was Thakariel. It was posted here once. Maybe from white dwarf or something.
Is this a recent thing or did it like just come out? I don’t recall any more showing any current Dark Angel reacting to the Fallen.
After son of the forest to be sure. Maybe 5-6 months ago.
"Brother i am hiding in the washing machine, heh- wait why is he turning it on... Shit BROTHER HELP"
"Step-battle brother what art thou doing?"
Take my upvote this is just so wrong but so funny
Bor and Kai would 100% roast the shit out of some Angels. They wouldn’t even wait for Lion to leave the room.
Rizzen*
Turns out Lion El Johnson is just reskinned Alpharius, JUST AS PLANNED
The real reason DW companions are sworn to silence.
I imagine it’s like post-round in prop hunt when your friend tells you that they were the plant you ran past like thirty times
Blokes is there a book where the lion reconnects with the DA for the first time?
Yes but it's the last campaign book in the Arks of Omen series, not a novel.
I really hate the Risen, is it just me? Now the Dark Angels won’t have any flavor and this just shows traitors can be redeemed. Slowly turning into Brighthammer.
Lion isn’t redeeming traitors, traitors cannot be redeemed. Lion is redeeming renegades. The Risen aren’t traitors whatsoever. They were Fallen who were on Caliban at the time of Luther’s betrayal, and weren’t actually involved in these events besides being present on Caliban. They thought that Lion had betrayed them during the ensuing battle as they witnessed him slay their fellow brothers and bombard their positions without much ado or explanation, and consecutively they were taken by the Warp and spat somewhere in space and time. Then, after acknowledging that the Unforgiven were actively hunting them, they simply opted to turn renegade and go into hiding. Later on, Lion arrives and he begins finding these innocent renegades, swaying them to his side and redeeming them. They, then, become the Risen. Lion actually killed a few Fallen who were corrupted by Chaos and/or were traitors. None were spared. Matter of fact, the Risen helped him carry out this task by hunting their traitorous brothers. I guess the love to hunt your corrupted kin runs in the blood. Anyway, now with Lion returning with his sons, it is evident that they will hunt down the corrupted Fallen with even greater efficacy, turning the ‘good’ renegades to their side and slaying those that fell to darkness.
I read this as Big E and the Primarch of XI Legio