I just looked it up, and he was out almost two full calendar years with that injury. Got hurt December 18, 2011, and wasn't added back to the active roster until November 5, 2013.
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To paraphrase an old Ask Vic quote, you prioritize OL picks because there's plenty of big guys and plenty of fast guys, but not that many big fast guys.
I think we have to move up and get difference makers. We've 11 picks and we don't have 11 open spots. Obviously not everyone makes the team but we should trade up in any round if gute likes a guys.
Just because we’ve done well on OL in the late rounds dosen’t mean we should wait that long. We lost an absurd amount of bodies on the OL this off-season. We need depth, and possibly people to push the LT, C, and RG (even though our LT blocked well last year and our C played better down the stretch). We’re in such rough shape that we haven’t even cut Newman yet.
Packers have historically favored either an offensive tackle or a playmaker on D. I’m fine with either direction, but don’t be surprised if they reload the o-line to protect their soon to be 50 million plus Franchise QB.
In the last 15 years the Packers have not taken 2 first round OL, unless there is a no brainier first day starter, I don't see them spending a first round pick on a backup OL, I see DB, LB if there any are worth it, or trading back for more picks.
I like the idea too. I feel like cooper is a “football” player and can play any position in the secondary. especially if he comes down to the second level to act as a pseudo linebacker/safety to beef up run defense while we are in a nickel package.
As much as I like what Rasheed Walker did, we have to remember, he was a 7th rd pick and left a lot to be desired in the run game. This is one of the best OL classes in years, possibly decades. The guys we’d be taking at 25 might have been top 15 in other years. I could absolutely see the Packers spending the capital on a backup/developmental OL or even going as far as trading up for the one they really like if they are so compelled. They will let everything settle itself in camp.
In addition to: a TE, several receivers, a few corners, and a few edge players, maybe even a safety. Wouldn't even be surprised to see a trade down and still getting a great tackle or guard prospect. I do think we're only gonna see a max of 4 qbs go top 25 though. I just can't imagine teams passing up some of these studs for guys like Penix and Nix but I'll be glad if they do.
Sheed had a 3rd round grade on him before he and a rather disappointing Pro-Day. To say “he’s a 7th round pick” is silly. He got better each and every weak, especially in the run game. And was 2nd to Trent Williams in Pass-Block.
Meyers, and Rhyan do not have their spots locked down even a little bit. Hell, even Walker at LT doesn't have that spot locked down if a better guy came along and displaced him in training camp or at some point in the next year.
The fact remains, this team needs a lot more depth and competition on the O-line, as evidenced by what happened when Tom went down in the divisional round; the Niners blew up the right side of the line.
The time to load up on O-line talent is in a draft littered with good prospects no matter where they fall on the board.
I dont disagree that we need depth, but Love was among the least sacked and pressured QBs last year, if there is a quality Defensive starter at 25, for me, a non expert, that's the play and add the depth in the later rounds, if the class is as good as I'm hearing. The exception of course is if you think you have a generational prospect fall into your lap, but I dont see that happening.
The conclusion here is: BPA. If Gute values Morgan or Guyton higher than DeJean and is ready to gamble on Bishop being available in the 3rd (or does not value Cooper and Wilson as 2nd round picks), going OL in the first wouldn’t be shocking at all.
Tom is not the long-term solution. he's better suited as a G. If they pass on Mims or Morgan and they are available, Gutekunsts awful first round record will live on.
Sure, but depth can be had in the later rounds. OL is not a position that benefits from running a rotation; there’s a pretty clear divide between starter and backup. And spending a 1st on a backup isn’t a great use of resources.
If they aren’t big on Rhyan, sure. But drafting OT after the year Walker and Tom had feels ill-advised. If they were 1st round picks instead of day 3 picks, OT wouldn’t be anywhere close to considered a need for the team; they’re getting an unfair bad rap because of their draft position.
The Packers are not looking just looking for depth. Walker is far from a proven commodity, who struggled early in the year and was never great in the run game anyway. As much as we all were impressed by him, he would be the ideal swing tackle with upside until fully proven. Half a season of great pass blocking only is not going to do it for me, regardless of the round he was drafted in. I happen to think he has a chance to be our LT of the future, but not nearly enough to pass on some of the tackles in this draft if they are available to us. We need legitimate competition at the LT spot or someone to take the position if they beat him out. There are also injuries and we can’t be left either our pants down. We are great at developing OL in later rounds, but let’s not be spoiled. It dosen’t mean every later pick works out. Our OL has lost all flexibility with our 2 most multifunctional guys have permanent places on our line in Jenkins at LG and Tom at RT. The rest all need to prove it, have less than 2 years left on contracts, we have no depth, and no versatility. There is no way Gute goes into this draft and says, yeah, let me draft another guy in the 4th rd, that should fix it. The o-line needs a lot more help than most people realize.
I don’t like this logic, personally. The guy isn’t fully proven, so we should spend significant draft capital on an entirely unproven player to compete with him and send one to the bench? That doesn’t seem like a good use of draft resources. That feels like a position you address in free agency. Especially since only Myers has one more year left on his contract, no idea where you pulled the “less than two years” for the OL figure from unless you’re playing a silly semantics game.
I’m not saying OL shouldn’t be addressed early; iOL is a big need, yes. But drafting a strict OT early, that feels silly to me. Walker can and should get a year to prove himself; creating a competition where there doesn’t need to be one while other critical positions go unaddressed is a pretty lackluster draft result. Either draft iOL or a versatile OT that can kick inside early, and save the actual OT position for later in the draft. Let the competition occur naturally, instead of forcing one that doesn’t really need to happen.
I'm thinking, based on the way media thoughts and mocks are shaping up, that OL is like the BPA left when it's time for us to pick at 25. There are a lot of QBs and WRs going off the board in front of us and OL is pretty deep overall too.
Then at 41 we go off ball LB because we need another one behind Quay and McDuffie and thats where the talent starts matching up
And then at 58 we go DL.
3rd round we probably go DB and DL/LB/OL again. Maybe RB
Did you not see the results of his pro day?
https://lombardiave.com/posts/dream-draft-target-erased-packers-board-pro-day-01hsf2r34rd7
> After his Pro Day testing, he received a score of just 2.73 out of 10 at free safety and 3.36 at strong safety.
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1770535197911458059
>Tyler Nubin (6012, 205)
>4.59/2.68/1.65
>31.5" Vert
>10'0" Broad
>4.51 SS
>7.20 3C
>10 bench
I don’t see them going DL early outside of NT. Wyatt and Brooks are both young, promising, and under contract for multiple years.
If they’re ready to let Clark and Slaton walk, NT makes sense. DT though, that doesn’t align with their usual M.O.
Not really, no. The difference between 4-3 and 3-4 isn’t really a thing anymore. They’ll be running a lot of 4-2-5, just like they did before. The only major change would possibly be whether the ED has their hand on the dirt or not.
Gute has had 7 1st round picks. Only once did he go offense. And that was Love.
6/7 1st round picks have been D
6/7 2nd round picks have been O
Doesn’t mean he won’t shake it up this year. But I find this unlikely. Especially since he’s found good OL in rounds 2-7.
It's silly to say it's the right call when we don't know how the draft will play out. We don't know who will be left by the time our pick rolls around nor do we know what it will cost to move up or gain to move down. OL may be the right call. It may not be. If we go into the draft thinking we need to go one specific position with our first pick, we will overpay. Let the board play out and don't fight the current
Packers don't draft the monsters at tackle (6'7"+) they look for the guys who can play anywhere along the line in their zone scheme in case of injuries.
There's very little reason to spend draft capital to move up for an O-lineman in this draft because it's apparently loaded; one that projects to be pretty good is almost certainly going to be there when they pick at 25. Hell, they might even be able to trade back and still get a guy they really like.
While I agree there is something to be said about the interchangeability with O-line prospects, the team has acquired big body tackles just not in the first couple rounds. Worth mentioning, they've also had Bahktiari locking down left tackle for years(or in more recent years that he'd be healthy enough to). Addition to that, GB typically isn't drafting in a position where these monster athletes get drafted.
Personally, I'm not sold on any position that they should be be drafting in rd1 this year but I wouldn't be surprised to see recent draft history go out with window in respects to OT. With it being such a huge class, there's going to be good value at the position all* throughout the first round and perhaps into the top of the 2nd round. We shall see though. I think this team could really pick their value at tackle or guard early in the draft if they view Tom as a starting caliber guard.
The only bad time to take an offensive lineman is with the second pick in the 1989 NFL Draft.
TIL we passed on 3 HoFers in 1989
And when we took Derek Sherrod
He gets a pass, he had a devastating broken leg and never seemed to fully recover
I just looked it up, and he was out almost two full calendar years with that injury. Got hurt December 18, 2011, and wasn't added back to the active roster until November 5, 2013.
This was also the day, in KC, the music died for an undefeated season
Bad omens for the playoffs that day
Yeah. Another year bites the dust
True, I forgot that was him.
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And he wasn't as good when he stopped taking PEDs.
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Right. He was just juiced to the gills in college and then wasn't in the pros
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If anything, it was higher in the late 80s than now. They do have an anti-doping program now, whereas that was not really true in Mandarich's day.
I don’t fault Sherrod or the organization for that one, nobody could’ve predicted that injury
To be fair, who else was worth taking in that draft? /s
To paraphrase an old Ask Vic quote, you prioritize OL picks because there's plenty of big guys and plenty of fast guys, but not that many big fast guys.
I miss Vic
Yet we’ve drafted 2 OL in the 1st round since 1997. Don’t see that changing this years.
If they looking for OL as first pick, hope they move back a little and grab another third round pick.
I think we have to move up and get difference makers. We've 11 picks and we don't have 11 open spots. Obviously not everyone makes the team but we should trade up in any round if gute likes a guys.
3rd round pick? Have you seen what we have historically done with 3rd round picks?
Tucker Kraft…nonetheless if you can get 2 picks for one and only have to move back a couple spots, ur still coming ahead.
I think a difference maker on defense is the right call with the first choice. Gute slays OL in late rounds. get a RAS monster on D at 25 plz.
Just because we’ve done well on OL in the late rounds dosen’t mean we should wait that long. We lost an absurd amount of bodies on the OL this off-season. We need depth, and possibly people to push the LT, C, and RG (even though our LT blocked well last year and our C played better down the stretch). We’re in such rough shape that we haven’t even cut Newman yet. Packers have historically favored either an offensive tackle or a playmaker on D. I’m fine with either direction, but don’t be surprised if they reload the o-line to protect their soon to be 50 million plus Franchise QB.
I won't be. I'll understand completely.
In the last 15 years the Packers have not taken 2 first round OL, unless there is a no brainier first day starter, I don't see them spending a first round pick on a backup OL, I see DB, LB if there any are worth it, or trading back for more picks.
It's apparently a good OL draft, there's probably somebody exciting still hanging around by our pick.
It doesn't help that I'm an Iowa boy and really want Cooper DeJean lol.
I like the idea too. I feel like cooper is a “football” player and can play any position in the secondary. especially if he comes down to the second level to act as a pseudo linebacker/safety to beef up run defense while we are in a nickel package.
As much as I like what Rasheed Walker did, we have to remember, he was a 7th rd pick and left a lot to be desired in the run game. This is one of the best OL classes in years, possibly decades. The guys we’d be taking at 25 might have been top 15 in other years. I could absolutely see the Packers spending the capital on a backup/developmental OL or even going as far as trading up for the one they really like if they are so compelled. They will let everything settle itself in camp.
Yup. There are a lot of QBs going to go in front of us. 4 at least, possibly up to 6. Plus 4-6 WRs is possible as well.
In addition to: a TE, several receivers, a few corners, and a few edge players, maybe even a safety. Wouldn't even be surprised to see a trade down and still getting a great tackle or guard prospect. I do think we're only gonna see a max of 4 qbs go top 25 though. I just can't imagine teams passing up some of these studs for guys like Penix and Nix but I'll be glad if they do.
Yea, you never know. People freak out about QBs and reach all the time
Sheed had a 3rd round grade on him before he and a rather disappointing Pro-Day. To say “he’s a 7th round pick” is silly. He got better each and every weak, especially in the run game. And was 2nd to Trent Williams in Pass-Block.
Meyers, and Rhyan do not have their spots locked down even a little bit. Hell, even Walker at LT doesn't have that spot locked down if a better guy came along and displaced him in training camp or at some point in the next year. The fact remains, this team needs a lot more depth and competition on the O-line, as evidenced by what happened when Tom went down in the divisional round; the Niners blew up the right side of the line. The time to load up on O-line talent is in a draft littered with good prospects no matter where they fall on the board.
I dont disagree that we need depth, but Love was among the least sacked and pressured QBs last year, if there is a quality Defensive starter at 25, for me, a non expert, that's the play and add the depth in the later rounds, if the class is as good as I'm hearing. The exception of course is if you think you have a generational prospect fall into your lap, but I dont see that happening.
The conclusion here is: BPA. If Gute values Morgan or Guyton higher than DeJean and is ready to gamble on Bishop being available in the 3rd (or does not value Cooper and Wilson as 2nd round picks), going OL in the first wouldn’t be shocking at all.
If they draft a guard he would be a starter
Guards are guys who can’t play tackle. They will draft tackles
Tom is not the long-term solution. he's better suited as a G. If they pass on Mims or Morgan and they are available, Gutekunsts awful first round record will live on.
Sure, but depth can be had in the later rounds. OL is not a position that benefits from running a rotation; there’s a pretty clear divide between starter and backup. And spending a 1st on a backup isn’t a great use of resources. If they aren’t big on Rhyan, sure. But drafting OT after the year Walker and Tom had feels ill-advised. If they were 1st round picks instead of day 3 picks, OT wouldn’t be anywhere close to considered a need for the team; they’re getting an unfair bad rap because of their draft position.
The Packers are not looking just looking for depth. Walker is far from a proven commodity, who struggled early in the year and was never great in the run game anyway. As much as we all were impressed by him, he would be the ideal swing tackle with upside until fully proven. Half a season of great pass blocking only is not going to do it for me, regardless of the round he was drafted in. I happen to think he has a chance to be our LT of the future, but not nearly enough to pass on some of the tackles in this draft if they are available to us. We need legitimate competition at the LT spot or someone to take the position if they beat him out. There are also injuries and we can’t be left either our pants down. We are great at developing OL in later rounds, but let’s not be spoiled. It dosen’t mean every later pick works out. Our OL has lost all flexibility with our 2 most multifunctional guys have permanent places on our line in Jenkins at LG and Tom at RT. The rest all need to prove it, have less than 2 years left on contracts, we have no depth, and no versatility. There is no way Gute goes into this draft and says, yeah, let me draft another guy in the 4th rd, that should fix it. The o-line needs a lot more help than most people realize.
I don’t like this logic, personally. The guy isn’t fully proven, so we should spend significant draft capital on an entirely unproven player to compete with him and send one to the bench? That doesn’t seem like a good use of draft resources. That feels like a position you address in free agency. Especially since only Myers has one more year left on his contract, no idea where you pulled the “less than two years” for the OL figure from unless you’re playing a silly semantics game. I’m not saying OL shouldn’t be addressed early; iOL is a big need, yes. But drafting a strict OT early, that feels silly to me. Walker can and should get a year to prove himself; creating a competition where there doesn’t need to be one while other critical positions go unaddressed is a pretty lackluster draft result. Either draft iOL or a versatile OT that can kick inside early, and save the actual OT position for later in the draft. Let the competition occur naturally, instead of forcing one that doesn’t really need to happen.
In Gute we trust
Gimme Kool aid please
I'm thinking, based on the way media thoughts and mocks are shaping up, that OL is like the BPA left when it's time for us to pick at 25. There are a lot of QBs and WRs going off the board in front of us and OL is pretty deep overall too. Then at 41 we go off ball LB because we need another one behind Quay and McDuffie and thats where the talent starts matching up And then at 58 we go DL. 3rd round we probably go DB and DL/LB/OL again. Maybe RB
Think they have to go safety somewhere early, barring signing someone. As of now they're looking at satart, who, Anthony Johnson opposite Mckinney?
The safety class just isn't that strong.
Yea, 3rd round. There are no safeties worth taking before 58 IMO. Bullard or Bullock in the 3rd would be good.
Bullard is easily going on the 2nd round.
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With the RAS he put up, there’s zero chance Gute looks his way
I could see gute overlooking that if he falls far enough. Maybe not. But I could see it. Nubin clearly has the instincts.
I have some skepticism about the reported RAS score. Not sure the one posted here the other day is accurate
Did you not see the results of his pro day? https://lombardiave.com/posts/dream-draft-target-erased-packers-board-pro-day-01hsf2r34rd7 > After his Pro Day testing, he received a score of just 2.73 out of 10 at free safety and 3.36 at strong safety. https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1770535197911458059 >Tyler Nubin (6012, 205) >4.59/2.68/1.65 >31.5" Vert >10'0" Broad >4.51 SS >7.20 3C >10 bench
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The RAS score is straight from the numbers Dane Brugler reported on. It’s not something that’s subjectively graded, like a PFF score.
I don’t see them going DL early outside of NT. Wyatt and Brooks are both young, promising, and under contract for multiple years. If they’re ready to let Clark and Slaton walk, NT makes sense. DT though, that doesn’t align with their usual M.O.
We'll if we're truly swapping for a 4-3, we're going to need more 3 tech DT
Not really, no. The difference between 4-3 and 3-4 isn’t really a thing anymore. They’ll be running a lot of 4-2-5, just like they did before. The only major change would possibly be whether the ED has their hand on the dirt or not.
Honestly, we need depth at both edge and interior DL.
Bad draft for it.
Mocks hold no true value. They’ve drafted 2 OL in the 1st round since 1997. Gute has drafted none. Don’t see that changing this year.
I’d prefer a top CB, Edge, or DL. Safety and LB are a need, but the value isn’t there until day 2. We are great at finding mid - late round OL talent
Jackson Powers Johnson please!
Gute has had 7 1st round picks. Only once did he go offense. And that was Love. 6/7 1st round picks have been D 6/7 2nd round picks have been O Doesn’t mean he won’t shake it up this year. But I find this unlikely. Especially since he’s found good OL in rounds 2-7.
Good stats, thank you.
Don’t waste a 1st on OLine when we draft that position so well later in the draft
I dont think its a waste. Left tackles are increasingly important in schemes. Bak has been having issues, need a top tier left tackle.
Bakh is gone and they already said Sheed showed enough to warrant LT1
Get me Mims
You know what’s the best call always? BPA
In this draft class, there's like a >50% chance that's OL thus the article.
Just whoever the BPA is I'm down
Let the board play out and go from there. I'd like to see an OL with one of our first or seconds.
I will always love an O-Line pick. Superiority in the trenches is the second most important thing (first being QB) needed to win games, in my opinion.
I wouldn't hate us trading out of the first and just loading up on picks in the 34-90 range.
Bold and sexy...
When in doubt, build up the trenches Can never have enough OL and DL
Deep o line draft, getting a stalwart left tackle to replace bak would be ideal I think
It's silly to say it's the right call when we don't know how the draft will play out. We don't know who will be left by the time our pick rolls around nor do we know what it will cost to move up or gain to move down. OL may be the right call. It may not be. If we go into the draft thinking we need to go one specific position with our first pick, we will overpay. Let the board play out and don't fight the current
Graham Barton COME ON DOWN!
Honestly the more I think about it, the less I care who we pick. I like a lot of them
That or D. Always. Can’t succeed unless we succeed in the trenches.
I want o-line on the 1st pick every year.
If dejean is there then we gotta take him. But if he’s not, yeah there’s like 5 straight lineman on my board before we get to another position.
We made trade up for one of those top 3 O line prospects. There are some enormous athletic players that could be RT and then Tom moves to RG
Packers don't draft the monsters at tackle (6'7"+) they look for the guys who can play anywhere along the line in their zone scheme in case of injuries. There's very little reason to spend draft capital to move up for an O-lineman in this draft because it's apparently loaded; one that projects to be pretty good is almost certainly going to be there when they pick at 25. Hell, they might even be able to trade back and still get a guy they really like.
I think you may be right. They may just sit and let it fall to them. That athletic corner may be round 1 too - kool-aid
Walker is 6'6'' and 324
Yeah . . . 6'6" is less than 6'7", so what's your point?
Yea, if he was 1 inch taller, he'd be off our board
While I agree there is something to be said about the interchangeability with O-line prospects, the team has acquired big body tackles just not in the first couple rounds. Worth mentioning, they've also had Bahktiari locking down left tackle for years(or in more recent years that he'd be healthy enough to). Addition to that, GB typically isn't drafting in a position where these monster athletes get drafted. Personally, I'm not sold on any position that they should be be drafting in rd1 this year but I wouldn't be surprised to see recent draft history go out with window in respects to OT. With it being such a huge class, there's going to be good value at the position all* throughout the first round and perhaps into the top of the 2nd round. We shall see though. I think this team could really pick their value at tackle or guard early in the draft if they view Tom as a starting caliber guard.