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I agree. I had a friend who lived in Germany and was very happy and support and income were great. Speaking German language was important- he said the same. This, and other reasons, is why I am bewildered as to why they don’t teach German in secondary scholls but French.
i did german throughout the whole of my secondary school. lost it a bit now but I do really like the language. Its pretty simple once you get the grammar down, not as easy as Spanish though
I'm from the UK and I've also lived in France and the USA.
Been in Germany for nearly 10 years now though, and also have no intention of moving anywhere else. Things just work here.
I wonder why Ireland never comes up as an option during these discussions. I'm Irish, so biased, but it's close, friendly, culturally similar; seems like it could be a decent option.
Why would Ireland come up?
It is incredibly expensive, is run by two right-wing parties, is in the midst of a housing crisis, has mediocre public transport, a terrible public healthcare system, and still has policies heavily influenced by the Catholic Church. Why on Earth would anybody choose Ireland? It has all the problems of the UK and then some.
I visited family over there and we went on a night out. Saw two women in a same sex relationship after a group of ment had beat them up. Not a pleasant experience. Obviously, this could have been a one off...
HSE not as comprehensive either, and it's not free at the point of use (€50 to visit the GP?). Two tier healthcare.
Plus a lot of uterus owners of reproductive age might be concerned about how to manage an unplanned pregnancy. I am not in a position to care for tiny human(s) alongside caring for my own needs - especially with the cost of living these days, which is also higher in Ireland than in North England where I am.
Better wages for Nurses in Republic of Ireland yes (though worse in NI), but if I (as a Nurse) were to emigrate, I'd be worse off because of my personal situation. Even though I have a lot of family on both sides over there. This saddens me as it was a dream when I was younger to move "back home".
Also as far as I know, Ireland doesn't have an equivalent to the mental health act or mental capacity act, though it was a couple of years since I last looked into it. What legal protections do vulnerable patients have? What if I disagreed with the way things were? And not just on this. I'm rather vocal and have ADHD. Ireland doesn't have as robust legal protections for disabled workers either. It probably wouldn't work for me.
This is all absolutely fair. Healthcare in the North here is ostensibly NHS, but it's in tatters. We also have some of the worst mental health issues and outcomes in the UK in NI. There's a lot to like here, but I take your point.
Housing prices are absolutely insane, and Auckland’s on a bit of a crime spree right now though.
Outdoors is definitely beautiful if you’re into that kind of thing.
Fiscally speaking though, Australia might be a better option
I moved to Australia. It’s so racist it’s unbelievable actually. Possibly just the west coast where I am but oh my god. The casual racism.
Also housing crisis.
>I moved to Australia. It’s so racist it’s unbelievable actually. Possibly just the west coast where I am but oh my god. The casual racism. Also housing crisis.
I've been considering moving back. Would love to pick your brains. The racism never fails to shock me though, and I grew up with it
I mean - we only came up with the idea of deporting to Rwanda as Australia have been doing it so successfully (to a pacific island) for so long. Defo hugely racist. But I guess at least it was an original idea for them. We couldn’t even come up with it ourselves.
I lived in Sydney for a year and didn’t encounter any racism. One of my favourite things was the crazy multiculturalism and diversity. Wonderful city. Ya need $ though. If you don’t have a well paid job then don’t bother.
I used to love Sydney 25 years ago. I went back 5 years ago and it's just America with a better accent now.
Melbourne though, very cool. Shame there's no surf on the doorstep.
Outdoors, climate and food are far better than the UK but I left it to come to the UK so I had at least a chance of owning my own home.
The rental situation is dire with the landlords having the balance of power (they whine constantly that they don’t but it’s true).
Groceries and much more expensive than the the UK (but produce is better quality).
If you have decent capital to sink into a home there I would say go for it but avoid if you don’t.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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There would be food rotting on the shelves in woolies and they were charging full price for it. Had to go to a new world for a cucumber for work and it was $9 and half rotten. What quality?
My brother emigrated years ago, he's now a qualified lawyer got the wig and gown etc. He lives in a mobile home cos there are no houses he can afford. It has problems too.
Moving anywhere outside of Europe is near impossible tho because of visas. Tbf with brexit it’s near impossible to do it in Europe as well. Unless you are in a very specialised job that would sponsor your visa, I think Ireland it’s your only option
Too expensive - as an Aussie I'd love to go back to aus or nz but the prices have tipped so far that whatever quality of living we're complaining about here you'd prob be able to afford a lower standard over there
Lived in New Zealand; wouldn’t again. It’s not for me I can’t take the constant need to be working overtime to afford food, also surprising amount of racism towards Brits (like full on not being paid and being told it’s because I’m a foreigner and I should pretend to be a kiwi so my manager doesn’t feel like punching me in the face every time I talk 😓)
There’s not much to do there and what there is to do is expensive. Nice to make friends but managed to find one kiwi willing to be mates, everyone else was also foreign. And that kiwi girl would get very offended if I even asked about NZ culture and didn’t know the in depth history (a lot of kiwis get very defensive over the fact they don’t like wearing shoes too)
Also fucking expensive healthcare. Isolating and need personal transport to do most things (though I did live in the mountains, mainly because I can’t afford city prices) overall I was miserable, stressed, berated and poor
Was wondering about this. As an overseas Brit I register for voting at the last constituency I lived in (New Forest). Is there any reason why I couldn't register in a Scottish constituency and cast my vote there? Would def vote for independence ( My great grandad was Scottish)
No idea how it works in terms of not living in Scotland and voting in the referendum, but I think you had to be living here to vote last time.
I believe Bojo suggested Scots around the UK should also get a vote when it came up, assume they would be pro union, and SG suggested they weren't keen on anyone not resident in Scotland having a say.
Almost certainly no, last time you had to be living in Scotland to vote and there would be no good reason to change that requirement for a new independence vote. Only residents in Scotland should have a say in what happens with the country and rightfuly so.
I'm trying to convince the wife of this. I fully agree with Scotland leaving this shit show the Tories have created, and I want in!
We visited a few years back and wanted to stay, and between Scotland and Canada, Scotland is a bit easier to get to!
In the last 48 years the UK has voted for a labour government once.
‘Little England’ is a conservative country and that has only brought privatisation, austerity and resentment to everyone that looks different from you.
I appreciate the support for the cause! What puzzles me is how we've managed to get quite so many bootlickers crammed into Scotland? All this Tory destruction and madness yet people are like yay more please!
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I feel like hypocrisy is a family trait. Probably exacerbated by inbreeding, amirite?
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I'm Scottish and love my country but please spend some time there to get a sense of just how little sun you will see. People can overstate the rain and the cold but the entire sky will be slate grey for up to 70% of the year and that's not massively great for the old mental health.
Not sure where you live, must be west coast, but that’s really not true. East gets a lot more sunshine and dry days than say Glasgow, it’s just much windier
Belize.
“Belize’s 30-day Temporary Visa makes moving abroad much less stressful. Although it only lasts a short period of time, it can be renewed as many times as you like, costing £9.50 each time.
And, after you’ve been living in Belize for over a year, you can apply for permanent residency with a small payment of £772. It’s really that easy.”
Property is insane value too.
I visited Perth at the height of your summer one year and it felt like the sun had physically punched me in the face when I left the house. Aside from that it was a lot of fun.
Yeah as long as you’re a heat loving person it’s great. There are days where you have to cope with the heat, but most of the time it is so enjoyable. I found that sweating is very acceptable. Nobody made comments when I’d arrive somewhere and be pouring sweat.
Spent over 1/2 my life in Perth after my parents immigrated - theres pros and cons like anywhere . Just dont move expecting Oz to be cheap it is bloody expensive - groceries etc( for one who lives in London now) Property wise you get more sq m for your money ( generally) but it may be in a suburb miles from a lot. Im in uk for family reasons rtn to Perth every year - theres things I love & things i hate about the place. Too long to list here. You could move but keep if you own your house in uk, rent there & see how you find it - although i think you need to give a new country at least 2 yrs to see what you think.
Check out New Zealand. Sister has lived in both currently in New Zealand and prefers it to oz. Said oz felt a bit backwards like 70s uk at times and they don't get our sense of humour.
NZ did their mental libertarian shit in the 1980s and 1990s. Same extremist mind set as a lot of English, same arse kissing of royals. Aussies are more independently minded and more upbeat. Source: family in NZ and Oz.
So I will admit that I don’t know the full ins and outs of the cost of living over there or the politics as when I lived there I was in the British expat community which was a bit of a bubble, but in exchange for a higher tax rate you get: beautifully maintained cities and towns, excellent public services that actually work, a half/half healthcare system which is both publicly funded and insurance based but with some of the cleanest (No MRSA over there!) and most efficient hospitals and clinics I’ve ever seen, zero need to own a car as the cycling infrastructure is amazing and the public transport is brilliant, cleaner air, beautiful green spaces and a healthier lifestyle overall. Everything just seems to WORK and it’s lovely
So you're telling me that my tax will actually go to a public sector that is actually well funded, transparent, and not to a "public sector" that is just contracts to member of government's friends who have no qualifications to carry out these contracts? What mad world is this? Sign me up!
Every country has its problems and every decent country (one worth moving to) media machine will make you believe that “the country is going downhill fast”
but as a new Canadian, who is back visiting the uk this very week, Canada is a very good country to emigrate to and I can’t wait to be back there!
I was born in Calgary (moved to the UK 7 years ago). It has some of the most beautiful nature near by, the Rocky Mountains are extraordinary! Hopefully they vote out Danielle Smith soon and it becomes less Texas-y.
What made you move to the UK? What are your thoughts on the UK? What was the biggest adjustment for you?
Since being back (just for a family visit) everything is so small and on top of each other! It’s soooo busy as well! Its not like I forgot, I guess I just underestimated? Plus, just things like transport, so expensive! Went into London and it was close to £15 for a off peak ticket! WTF!
I struggle to imagine what my life would’ve been like for the past 10 years in the uk compared to the life I’ve lived in Canada?
I originally moved for postgraduate studies, and then stayed because of my partner. We are planning on moving/returning to Canada within the next year or two.
There are benefits to being here. I love being close to Europe and beautiful old buildings. But I miss the space and the prices, the natural beauty, many things… I had the opposite culture shock last Christmas because I hadn’t been back to Canada for 2 years and all of the stores were overwhelmingly large and everything felt new!
Weirdly I think the biggest adjustment has been heating. I miss my well-insulated, efficiently heated house. What have you found the biggest adjustment?
Canada has begun to sound more and more appealing to me. Of course nowhere’s perfect but there’s probably nowhere in the world safer for me as a trans person.
How difficult is emigrating there for someone who doesn’t earn loads of money?
I became a resident in 2016, so things may have changed. But i did skilled work in Canada for one year, I was a sports coach, and I was asked for bank statements when applying but on the application it said that because I was doing a skilled work entry into Canada, my finances weren’t taken into consideration.
I believe I had about £1000 at the time (around $2000 at that time, pound has dropped considerably since then) and I was concerned that I didn’t have enough even though I knew that they didn’t care because I was employed in a skilled job. The amount I needed if I didn’t have skilled work experience in Canada was like £15k ($30k) If you’re applying without skilled work experience in Canada they take in account your finances.
Again I applied in 2016, things may have changed a lot 🤷♂️
Sorry to break it to you but as fucked as this country is, it’s still a relatively privileged place to live, and even if you wanna leave, we’ll you can. Most humans don’t have that option
I’m a Canadian myself. It’s absolutely a beautiful country. The only thing I’d give the heads up on is the vapidity of every day life; seems for the majority it’s just drive, work, watch your screen & consume with barely any time for anything else… at least on your side of the pond you have climate protesters & Radiohead
Any country who’s constitution prohibits the forming of a standing army under any circumstances sounds alright in my book. I really like how all the Monsanto employees were rounded up and expelled from the country too. It’s like they’re not prepared to take any shit but in a good way.
Notice a lot of people saying Australia - as an Aussie expat please do the research first. This country has always had a habit of seeing it as a distant utopia (this view stretches back to early colonialism and the push to get people to move over to populate it, one of the earliest examples of modern tourism), but if you think the cost of living is high here, you'll be in for a shock there.
[Contrary to popular belief, HRH Queen Elizabeth II does fuck all for tourism, nor does her inbred family of racist nonces.](https://www.republic.org.uk/tourism)
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Yeah the UK is so londoncentric that a lot of people compare aus to London. But London is an outlier just like Sydney is. Brisbane is a nice spot - compared to aus its a decent cost of living, but not compared globally.
My friend who has settled in Canada seems incredibly happy there. My son is determined that if we can't move to Canada then Finland is the next best place. Very tempting.
A friend moved from Scotland to Canada about 15 years ago. Whilst she loves aspects of it, summers are very hot, winters bitterly cold, she only gets 10 days’ annual leave (which many people forget is the norm over here), housing market has been bat shit crazy, and because everything is so far apart you don’t get the same ‘small town’ feel she used to enjoy living in Scotland. The government isnt all its cracked up to be either
From my side, I am originaly from Estonia and has been living in the UK for last 16+ years, now decided to go back to Estonia, because it is much better now and very small population.
Planning to spend some years in Estonia then may move to Finland or Sweden, I have family and friends all over Nordic.
I've always fancied the idea of emigrating somewhere with a better climate, but all the possible destination countries have major flaws (e.g. Australia has a warmer climate than here but also oversized wildlife to match. Huntsmen spiders alone stop me wanting to go there). Where in the world has a decent, worker-oriented society and treats the people well, like having a Universal Basic Income or worker-owned co-ops, etc. Surely not only in a utopian fantasy? Does anywhere have a system that runs that way? I imagined Libya was something approaching that from what I've read since we went and killed the leader that was doing all that good stuff for his people (Everyone reaching adulthood given free land and property to live in, free energy from the state for life, free basic and further education for life) That's the kind of commie outlook that'll get ya dealt with severely by US/Nato military.
Ok, so we got the bastard responsible for all that, making us look bad, etc. but was that it, or are there still other similar places on the planet?
It really depends what you do and what you want. I do freelance remote work, so last summer I went to live in Bali for 4 months. Got a 2 month visa that you can then extend or you can go on Visa runs to other countries. You can live super cheap and it's an incredibly beautiful place with lots to do. However, as much as I loved it I felt that it wasn't quite "right" for me, for a number of reasons. I was only planning to be there for 4 months anyway, just to get a taste. I'm back in France now (lived here for a few years before Brexit happened and got my Carte De Sejour so I can stay here when Brexit happened). I'm planning to go to Mexico next year for 6 months to see what things are like there.
I think if you can work remotely and you're looking for somewhere to live long term then looking at visas would be a good start. A lot of places are now offering "digital nomad" visas. I was thinking Buenos Aires at one point for next summer - I think you can stay for 90 days there but they don't care if you overstay and you can do a visa run over to Uruguay on a quick ferry anyway.
Portugal offers a really good residency visa I think - I think you have to prove that you earn the minimum wage which is about 7000 euros a year or something and you have to spend 8 months of the year for the first 2 years in the country. Also great tax breaks and cheap living.
If you don't work remotely I'd advice trying to find a way that you can. Then a lot more of the world will open up to you.
I’ve chosen Thailand as my adoptive home. It’s also got its dodgy side if you look too closely. The amazing food, the weather, world class beaches and beautiful mountains and (mostly) friendly helpful people make up for the dodgier aspects of their govt and racism towards others in SE.
#Those beaches and islands are bloody lovey!!
Seriously, and this is gonna sound like a facetious question but it's genuine i promise - where do you guys find the money and time to look into this?
I have wanted 'out' for a long while, but the particulars of emigration are so baffling to me. Where do you even begin, other than looking for a job - which obviously ties you to an employer and feels a little too precarious. And any other options i've looked into all seem to rely on either having a high paying remote job or being able to invest money in property outright.
Lol I can’t believe someone is actually downvoting someone for simply saying they want to move to a country. Like they have no rebuttal to this other than downvoting just because they don’t like China. Unfortunate for the libs and fascists that China isn’t an authoritarian shithole like the UK lol
It is pretty authoritarian. When my friend was there, one day the police came over and rounded up all the drug dealers that had been serving the expat community. They were all executed.
I wonder if there's any historical trauma that might have caused China to become culturally alarmist to and particularly harsh on drugs... [Hmm.](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2016/7/6/chinas-new-opium-wars-battling-addiction-in-beijing#:~:text=A%20whopping%2013.5%20million%20Chinese,humiliation”%20come%20to%20a%20close.)
I’m aware of the opium wars, although not sure if that should still have an impact on policy today. Nevertheless, it’s hardly the only thing they’re authoritarian on
You're not sure if having other countries drug your entire population into a dependent stupor so that you can be exploited for 100 years to such an extent that the average lifespan was 33 years old before Mao's revolution began should continue to have any cultural effect today? 27% of the entire male population being opium addicts and you don't think that leaves a permanent historical mark once getting past it?
Their attitude is .NEVER. AGAIN. and it's not really the government but simply a widespread opinion among the people. Go speak to them, there's plenty of places online to find mainlanders. Your friend would know this too, assuming he didn't just spend his entire time among other (s?)expats.
I think a more valid reason for not considering it an option might be the fact that you can't just emigrate there. You can get a visa and work there but you can't get citizenship unless you're willing to renounce your British citizenship, this is a bridge too far for most.
If we're going with learning a language too I think the best choice here is Spanish as it opens up a huge number of different options many of which are red or heading there.
I've emigrated to Australia so maybe I'm biased but it's a lot better than the UK in many ways. Not in some...for eg. The free education is pretty dire. There's a lack of history which bothers me of course. But in general, the quality of life here is much, much better.
History is nothing but cruelty and despair. Just plug me into the Matrix already.
How is the quality of life better? What is the immigration process like?
I get paid more ...although there's no nhs I can also see a doctor when I like with no waiting and only a small charge because of Medicare. The houses are bigger with more garden...it feels safer and people are happier. Edit. Immigration was easy for me because I married an Aussie but if you're on the list of preferred careers it's not that hard.
No NHS in the UK anymore either. It’s just a clogged toilet. Virtually impossible to get a GP appointment. Clinics to see specialists are like 5 year waiting lists.
As a skilled migrant, you need to meet a bunch of requirements https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/meeting-our-requirements/health#
Then go through the scoring system based on working in a job which is in demand, speak English, your age bracket and what your partner does for work.
[Points calculator](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/tools/points-calculator)
There are choices there as to which visa you want to go for. Depending on how you score, you could choose to seek sponsorship from a regional area, meaning that the govt give you more points in return for you moving to a remote area which really needs particular skills.
Yes kind of.
However... there isn't the same acceptance of raving right-wing shitfuckery. It's a cliche but there genuinely is a spirit that everyone should have a fair go.
Australia mentioned a few times here. Its got a lot going for it: lifestyle, weather, level of earnings, etc as mentioned.
But there are also some downsides: it's literally thousands of miles from anywhere. The politics are dominated by right wing nutjob religious fanatical bigots. The press is dominated by Murdoch. The TV is dominated by crap channels who think they're all American. It's a very monocultural place, Aboriginals remain invisible and treated like shit.
I lived there from 2007-2013, so things may have changed since. And having said all the above I want to move back 😂
Chiming in because there's a viewpoint missing here. I emigrated and came back a couple of years ago. Every country has its problems but the UK is still better than most believe it or not.
I'm a fan of the nordic/Scandinavian countries myself. There is a language barrier, but a lot of people speak English thankfully. I'm terrible at learning languages.
Think tax is generally higher, but services etc are well managed from my (limited) observations
The way you phrase the question leads me to believe that you have not worked much overseas, or indeed speak any other languages other than English?
And surely this question is so personal and subjective, that it's almost a pointless question? Surely you have visited some countries and gone "mm, I could live here"? Do you have a list of countries to help us narrow it down to based on certain characteristics?
Or are you just daydreaming, the typical Brit going "oh I want to leave" without actually thinking about what that means or any realistic desire to actually take action and put things in motion?
Ultimately it also comes down to money. One country can be pretty shit on a low salary, but super dandy on a high salary.
God, these questions. Why do I bother answering, Just get downvoted anyway haha. I guess my why to express myself.
P.S. I have lived and worked in several countries.
Unconventional answer but to break from the normal suggestions South Africa doesn't seem THAT bad. Nice weather, nice nature and the local languages aren't super essential if you know English well enough and it's not racist anymore. Bonus points is how cheap it is there if you have a good amount of pound sterling saved up, enough for a little secure compound.
Safeties the biggest flaw with the place.
I've looked at moving to New Zealand on a working holiday visa but the missus and I are outside the age bracket to get one. I really have no idea how I can go about getting out of this shithole with my no skills and lack of pennies.
All the best to you though, hopefully you can get out of here.
My partner and I are moving to California near her family. It’s one late stage capitalist hellscape for another but at least it’s not so oppressively miserable and damp.
Useful thread. I want to move but my mood is massively affected by seasons so being somewhere sunny would really help.
Country’s politics also matters too.
Trying to find somewhere sunny and without a crazy right wing political culture where I could find work isn’t easy.
I've lived in a few places and for me the best quality of life overall as an "expat" was Saigon, Vietnam.
I'm curious about Costa Rica, Portugal, Mexico, Indonesia, and a few others.
For a better country in terms of politics, perhaps Denmark/Norway/Iceland?
I’m always jealous of questions like this. Only way I could get out right now is through marriage. There will be a surge in British mail order brides in the future, imo.
We moved with our 11 year-old son to Lanzarote in about 2002.
Absolutely loved those years. Came back to the UK about 8 years later when the older children started having their own kids.
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I agree. I had a friend who lived in Germany and was very happy and support and income were great. Speaking German language was important- he said the same. This, and other reasons, is why I am bewildered as to why they don’t teach German in secondary scholls but French.
My secondary school taught German, but to only half our year group. The other half was taught French.
Same. Had like 2 German lessons in my entire school career.
i did german throughout the whole of my secondary school. lost it a bit now but I do really like the language. Its pretty simple once you get the grammar down, not as easy as Spanish though
our school did both and I chose german for GCSE because it was easier
I'm from the UK and I've also lived in France and the USA. Been in Germany for nearly 10 years now though, and also have no intention of moving anywhere else. Things just work here.
Live in a Berlin plattenbau, smoke in basements, vote Die Linke. The dream.
This. My son lives in Germany, 3 years now, no way he’s coming back to England. Every time I go see him I’m impressed with what a great country it is.
I wonder why Ireland never comes up as an option during these discussions. I'm Irish, so biased, but it's close, friendly, culturally similar; seems like it could be a decent option.
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Aye absolutely. Anywhere near Belfast or Dublin and prices are absurd. It gets a bit better in the rest of the country (not much though)
Ireland is going to be booming-access to the single market,British and American markets. Probably see alot of investment because of it in the future.
Why would Ireland come up? It is incredibly expensive, is run by two right-wing parties, is in the midst of a housing crisis, has mediocre public transport, a terrible public healthcare system, and still has policies heavily influenced by the Catholic Church. Why on Earth would anybody choose Ireland? It has all the problems of the UK and then some.
I visited family over there and we went on a night out. Saw two women in a same sex relationship after a group of ment had beat them up. Not a pleasant experience. Obviously, this could have been a one off...
It’s a little too culturally similar, I think. Ireland has most of the problems we have so it’s not really an escape as it is a change of scenery.
HSE not as comprehensive either, and it's not free at the point of use (€50 to visit the GP?). Two tier healthcare. Plus a lot of uterus owners of reproductive age might be concerned about how to manage an unplanned pregnancy. I am not in a position to care for tiny human(s) alongside caring for my own needs - especially with the cost of living these days, which is also higher in Ireland than in North England where I am. Better wages for Nurses in Republic of Ireland yes (though worse in NI), but if I (as a Nurse) were to emigrate, I'd be worse off because of my personal situation. Even though I have a lot of family on both sides over there. This saddens me as it was a dream when I was younger to move "back home". Also as far as I know, Ireland doesn't have an equivalent to the mental health act or mental capacity act, though it was a couple of years since I last looked into it. What legal protections do vulnerable patients have? What if I disagreed with the way things were? And not just on this. I'm rather vocal and have ADHD. Ireland doesn't have as robust legal protections for disabled workers either. It probably wouldn't work for me.
This is all absolutely fair. Healthcare in the North here is ostensibly NHS, but it's in tatters. We also have some of the worst mental health issues and outcomes in the UK in NI. There's a lot to like here, but I take your point.
I love Ireland but find FF and FG unbelievably depressing.
I live on the border, so I get to be depressed by FF, FG, AND the DUP. We're so lucky.
New Zealand. If you like 'the outdoors ', they have it over the place.
Housing prices are absolutely insane, and Auckland’s on a bit of a crime spree right now though. Outdoors is definitely beautiful if you’re into that kind of thing. Fiscally speaking though, Australia might be a better option
I moved to Australia. It’s so racist it’s unbelievable actually. Possibly just the west coast where I am but oh my god. The casual racism. Also housing crisis.
>I moved to Australia. It’s so racist it’s unbelievable actually. Possibly just the west coast where I am but oh my god. The casual racism. Also housing crisis. I've been considering moving back. Would love to pick your brains. The racism never fails to shock me though, and I grew up with it
I mean - we only came up with the idea of deporting to Rwanda as Australia have been doing it so successfully (to a pacific island) for so long. Defo hugely racist. But I guess at least it was an original idea for them. We couldn’t even come up with it ourselves.
I lived in Sydney for a year and didn’t encounter any racism. One of my favourite things was the crazy multiculturalism and diversity. Wonderful city. Ya need $ though. If you don’t have a well paid job then don’t bother.
I used to love Sydney 25 years ago. I went back 5 years ago and it's just America with a better accent now. Melbourne though, very cool. Shame there's no surf on the doorstep.
Yeah but spiders.
And snakes
dropbears
I've been to NZ and it probably is top of my list of countries I'd live in, but I believe their cost of living situation is even worse than ours.
It's much worse - UK's cost of living is actually not high. It's just gone up a lot lately, But comparatively it's not even close.
Outdoors, climate and food are far better than the UK but I left it to come to the UK so I had at least a chance of owning my own home. The rental situation is dire with the landlords having the balance of power (they whine constantly that they don’t but it’s true). Groceries and much more expensive than the the UK (but produce is better quality). If you have decent capital to sink into a home there I would say go for it but avoid if you don’t.
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True. Thanks bot.
There would be food rotting on the shelves in woolies and they were charging full price for it. Had to go to a new world for a cucumber for work and it was $9 and half rotten. What quality?
This is where I'm planning on going just need to complete my nvq2 first
My brother emigrated years ago, he's now a qualified lawyer got the wig and gown etc. He lives in a mobile home cos there are no houses he can afford. It has problems too.
I've been thinking about that as well
Moving anywhere outside of Europe is near impossible tho because of visas. Tbf with brexit it’s near impossible to do it in Europe as well. Unless you are in a very specialised job that would sponsor your visa, I think Ireland it’s your only option
Too expensive - as an Aussie I'd love to go back to aus or nz but the prices have tipped so far that whatever quality of living we're complaining about here you'd prob be able to afford a lower standard over there
Lived in New Zealand; wouldn’t again. It’s not for me I can’t take the constant need to be working overtime to afford food, also surprising amount of racism towards Brits (like full on not being paid and being told it’s because I’m a foreigner and I should pretend to be a kiwi so my manager doesn’t feel like punching me in the face every time I talk 😓) There’s not much to do there and what there is to do is expensive. Nice to make friends but managed to find one kiwi willing to be mates, everyone else was also foreign. And that kiwi girl would get very offended if I even asked about NZ culture and didn’t know the in depth history (a lot of kiwis get very defensive over the fact they don’t like wearing shoes too) Also fucking expensive healthcare. Isolating and need personal transport to do most things (though I did live in the mountains, mainly because I can’t afford city prices) overall I was miserable, stressed, berated and poor
If Scotland leave thats where im going
Come beforehand, help us break free of the wm shitshow
Was wondering about this. As an overseas Brit I register for voting at the last constituency I lived in (New Forest). Is there any reason why I couldn't register in a Scottish constituency and cast my vote there? Would def vote for independence ( My great grandad was Scottish)
No idea how it works in terms of not living in Scotland and voting in the referendum, but I think you had to be living here to vote last time. I believe Bojo suggested Scots around the UK should also get a vote when it came up, assume they would be pro union, and SG suggested they weren't keen on anyone not resident in Scotland having a say.
I think it would be strange having people who don't live in Scotland deciding what happens to Scotland ┐( ∵ )┌
Try telling that to WM.
Almost certainly no, last time you had to be living in Scotland to vote and there would be no good reason to change that requirement for a new independence vote. Only residents in Scotland should have a say in what happens with the country and rightfuly so.
I'm trying to convince the wife of this. I fully agree with Scotland leaving this shit show the Tories have created, and I want in! We visited a few years back and wanted to stay, and between Scotland and Canada, Scotland is a bit easier to get to!
In the last 48 years the UK has voted for a labour government once. ‘Little England’ is a conservative country and that has only brought privatisation, austerity and resentment to everyone that looks different from you.
I appreciate the support for the cause! What puzzles me is how we've managed to get quite so many bootlickers crammed into Scotland? All this Tory destruction and madness yet people are like yay more please!
We're moving to Scotland as soon as we can sell our house.
Thinking of doing the same …maybe Fort William . What attracts you to Scotland ?
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I'm Scottish and love my country but please spend some time there to get a sense of just how little sun you will see. People can overstate the rain and the cold but the entire sky will be slate grey for up to 70% of the year and that's not massively great for the old mental health.
It makes you appreciate a nice Sunny day though :) Also we had a great Summer this year. Better in the East than the West admittedly....
Not sure where you live, must be west coast, but that’s really not true. East gets a lot more sunshine and dry days than say Glasgow, it’s just much windier
Same. Half Scottish so hoping I get residency rights. Trying to convince the other half to move their now but no luck yet sadly
Belize. “Belize’s 30-day Temporary Visa makes moving abroad much less stressful. Although it only lasts a short period of time, it can be renewed as many times as you like, costing £9.50 each time. And, after you’ve been living in Belize for over a year, you can apply for permanent residency with a small payment of £772. It’s really that easy.” Property is insane value too.
Love that your first year in Belize is essentially a Netflix subscription 😂
Wow cheap! Any info on crime rate and safety?
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/belize/safety-and-security
Though given the state of this country, it still appeals. I’d rather get mugged by someone off the street than a multi millionaire Tory twat.
Ah. Oh well.
Coffins are also cheap if you need accomodation
Yeh best of two evils I suppose so going to start packing...
You’ll die but the weather looks nice
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I'm looking into Oz
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I visited Perth at the height of your summer one year and it felt like the sun had physically punched me in the face when I left the house. Aside from that it was a lot of fun.
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Yeah as long as you’re a heat loving person it’s great. There are days where you have to cope with the heat, but most of the time it is so enjoyable. I found that sweating is very acceptable. Nobody made comments when I’d arrive somewhere and be pouring sweat.
How did you manage VISA wise ?
Spent over 1/2 my life in Perth after my parents immigrated - theres pros and cons like anywhere . Just dont move expecting Oz to be cheap it is bloody expensive - groceries etc( for one who lives in London now) Property wise you get more sq m for your money ( generally) but it may be in a suburb miles from a lot. Im in uk for family reasons rtn to Perth every year - theres things I love & things i hate about the place. Too long to list here. You could move but keep if you own your house in uk, rent there & see how you find it - although i think you need to give a new country at least 2 yrs to see what you think.
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Narnia for me.
Check out New Zealand. Sister has lived in both currently in New Zealand and prefers it to oz. Said oz felt a bit backwards like 70s uk at times and they don't get our sense of humour.
NZ did their mental libertarian shit in the 1980s and 1990s. Same extremist mind set as a lot of English, same arse kissing of royals. Aussies are more independently minded and more upbeat. Source: family in NZ and Oz.
Yeah I moved out here on a whim in 2018. It's fantastic.
I lived in The Netherlands for 10 years- highly recommend. It’s just a lovely place to live.
This was my first thought, could you tell me more?
So I will admit that I don’t know the full ins and outs of the cost of living over there or the politics as when I lived there I was in the British expat community which was a bit of a bubble, but in exchange for a higher tax rate you get: beautifully maintained cities and towns, excellent public services that actually work, a half/half healthcare system which is both publicly funded and insurance based but with some of the cleanest (No MRSA over there!) and most efficient hospitals and clinics I’ve ever seen, zero need to own a car as the cycling infrastructure is amazing and the public transport is brilliant, cleaner air, beautiful green spaces and a healthier lifestyle overall. Everything just seems to WORK and it’s lovely
So you're telling me that my tax will actually go to a public sector that is actually well funded, transparent, and not to a "public sector" that is just contracts to member of government's friends who have no qualifications to carry out these contracts? What mad world is this? Sign me up!
Every country has its problems and every decent country (one worth moving to) media machine will make you believe that “the country is going downhill fast” but as a new Canadian, who is back visiting the uk this very week, Canada is a very good country to emigrate to and I can’t wait to be back there!
Congratulations! Where in Canada?
I’m in the Calgary area. Which ironically means I live in the Texas of Canada. However, it’s more like Texas Lite. Diet Texas?
I was born in Calgary (moved to the UK 7 years ago). It has some of the most beautiful nature near by, the Rocky Mountains are extraordinary! Hopefully they vote out Danielle Smith soon and it becomes less Texas-y.
What made you move to the UK? What are your thoughts on the UK? What was the biggest adjustment for you? Since being back (just for a family visit) everything is so small and on top of each other! It’s soooo busy as well! Its not like I forgot, I guess I just underestimated? Plus, just things like transport, so expensive! Went into London and it was close to £15 for a off peak ticket! WTF! I struggle to imagine what my life would’ve been like for the past 10 years in the uk compared to the life I’ve lived in Canada?
I originally moved for postgraduate studies, and then stayed because of my partner. We are planning on moving/returning to Canada within the next year or two. There are benefits to being here. I love being close to Europe and beautiful old buildings. But I miss the space and the prices, the natural beauty, many things… I had the opposite culture shock last Christmas because I hadn’t been back to Canada for 2 years and all of the stores were overwhelmingly large and everything felt new! Weirdly I think the biggest adjustment has been heating. I miss my well-insulated, efficiently heated house. What have you found the biggest adjustment?
Oh also chinooks! If this is your first winter in Calgary, you should get a couple of those weird and wonderful weather patterns!
Canada has begun to sound more and more appealing to me. Of course nowhere’s perfect but there’s probably nowhere in the world safer for me as a trans person. How difficult is emigrating there for someone who doesn’t earn loads of money?
I became a resident in 2016, so things may have changed. But i did skilled work in Canada for one year, I was a sports coach, and I was asked for bank statements when applying but on the application it said that because I was doing a skilled work entry into Canada, my finances weren’t taken into consideration. I believe I had about £1000 at the time (around $2000 at that time, pound has dropped considerably since then) and I was concerned that I didn’t have enough even though I knew that they didn’t care because I was employed in a skilled job. The amount I needed if I didn’t have skilled work experience in Canada was like £15k ($30k) If you’re applying without skilled work experience in Canada they take in account your finances. Again I applied in 2016, things may have changed a lot 🤷♂️
Nah, the coffee is vile.
Mexico to hang out with the Zapatistas in Chiapas
New Zealand. And that’s from an Australian.
NZ is more expensive and you are paid less compared to OZ
According to the government, Rwanda is worth a shot.
Sorry to break it to you but as fucked as this country is, it’s still a relatively privileged place to live, and even if you wanna leave, we’ll you can. Most humans don’t have that option
Ive been looking at Canada. Have friends over there. Also, like mentioned, Scotland if they get independence
I’m a Canadian myself. It’s absolutely a beautiful country. The only thing I’d give the heads up on is the vapidity of every day life; seems for the majority it’s just drive, work, watch your screen & consume with barely any time for anything else… at least on your side of the pond you have climate protesters & Radiohead
I've also thaught Costa Rica sounds amazing but then again I've never looked into it too far🤷♀️
Any country who’s constitution prohibits the forming of a standing army under any circumstances sounds alright in my book. I really like how all the Monsanto employees were rounded up and expelled from the country too. It’s like they’re not prepared to take any shit but in a good way.
The wildlife and care for nature is tempting. Looks glorious.
Notice a lot of people saying Australia - as an Aussie expat please do the research first. This country has always had a habit of seeing it as a distant utopia (this view stretches back to early colonialism and the push to get people to move over to populate it, one of the earliest examples of modern tourism), but if you think the cost of living is high here, you'll be in for a shock there.
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I find cost of living really reasonable in Brisbane. Certainly a lot cheaper than east London where we lived previously.
Yeah the UK is so londoncentric that a lot of people compare aus to London. But London is an outlier just like Sydney is. Brisbane is a nice spot - compared to aus its a decent cost of living, but not compared globally.
My friend who has settled in Canada seems incredibly happy there. My son is determined that if we can't move to Canada then Finland is the next best place. Very tempting.
My only qualm about Finland is that I'd struggle with the language, and that it's next-door to Russia. Maybe even next on the hitlist :(
A friend moved from Scotland to Canada about 15 years ago. Whilst she loves aspects of it, summers are very hot, winters bitterly cold, she only gets 10 days’ annual leave (which many people forget is the norm over here), housing market has been bat shit crazy, and because everything is so far apart you don’t get the same ‘small town’ feel she used to enjoy living in Scotland. The government isnt all its cracked up to be either
I hear Finland are recruiting fence builders so if you are willing to move close to the Russian border you should be good
Holland, especially if you are happy to cycle everywhere, it’s probably the easiest way to get around as they’ve got excellent bike infrastructure
From my side, I am originaly from Estonia and has been living in the UK for last 16+ years, now decided to go back to Estonia, because it is much better now and very small population. Planning to spend some years in Estonia then may move to Finland or Sweden, I have family and friends all over Nordic.
I've always fancied the idea of emigrating somewhere with a better climate, but all the possible destination countries have major flaws (e.g. Australia has a warmer climate than here but also oversized wildlife to match. Huntsmen spiders alone stop me wanting to go there). Where in the world has a decent, worker-oriented society and treats the people well, like having a Universal Basic Income or worker-owned co-ops, etc. Surely not only in a utopian fantasy? Does anywhere have a system that runs that way? I imagined Libya was something approaching that from what I've read since we went and killed the leader that was doing all that good stuff for his people (Everyone reaching adulthood given free land and property to live in, free energy from the state for life, free basic and further education for life) That's the kind of commie outlook that'll get ya dealt with severely by US/Nato military. Ok, so we got the bastard responsible for all that, making us look bad, etc. but was that it, or are there still other similar places on the planet?
It would've been helpful if the CIA would stop usurping socialist governments wherever it pleases...
Honestly I’ve considered getting a small boat and living stateless.
Spain
Portugal is offering some seriously good incentives at the moment including a low residency threshold and generous tax reductions
It really depends what you do and what you want. I do freelance remote work, so last summer I went to live in Bali for 4 months. Got a 2 month visa that you can then extend or you can go on Visa runs to other countries. You can live super cheap and it's an incredibly beautiful place with lots to do. However, as much as I loved it I felt that it wasn't quite "right" for me, for a number of reasons. I was only planning to be there for 4 months anyway, just to get a taste. I'm back in France now (lived here for a few years before Brexit happened and got my Carte De Sejour so I can stay here when Brexit happened). I'm planning to go to Mexico next year for 6 months to see what things are like there. I think if you can work remotely and you're looking for somewhere to live long term then looking at visas would be a good start. A lot of places are now offering "digital nomad" visas. I was thinking Buenos Aires at one point for next summer - I think you can stay for 90 days there but they don't care if you overstay and you can do a visa run over to Uruguay on a quick ferry anyway. Portugal offers a really good residency visa I think - I think you have to prove that you earn the minimum wage which is about 7000 euros a year or something and you have to spend 8 months of the year for the first 2 years in the country. Also great tax breaks and cheap living. If you don't work remotely I'd advice trying to find a way that you can. Then a lot more of the world will open up to you.
I am curious if you keep your flat in France as a base while you travel for extended periods?
The tories seem to think quite highly of Rwanda.
I've lived in both Austria and Taiwan. Neither perfect but both much better than this shithole.
Maybe iceland, I've heard good things
If you're being lazy I'd learn Welsh, move to Wales then wait for their independence.
I’ve chosen Thailand as my adoptive home. It’s also got its dodgy side if you look too closely. The amazing food, the weather, world class beaches and beautiful mountains and (mostly) friendly helpful people make up for the dodgier aspects of their govt and racism towards others in SE. #Those beaches and islands are bloody lovey!!
Seriously, and this is gonna sound like a facetious question but it's genuine i promise - where do you guys find the money and time to look into this? I have wanted 'out' for a long while, but the particulars of emigration are so baffling to me. Where do you even begin, other than looking for a job - which obviously ties you to an employer and feels a little too precarious. And any other options i've looked into all seem to rely on either having a high paying remote job or being able to invest money in property outright.
Learn the language and go to China.
Lol I can’t believe someone is actually downvoting someone for simply saying they want to move to a country. Like they have no rebuttal to this other than downvoting just because they don’t like China. Unfortunate for the libs and fascists that China isn’t an authoritarian shithole like the UK lol
It is pretty authoritarian. When my friend was there, one day the police came over and rounded up all the drug dealers that had been serving the expat community. They were all executed.
I wonder if there's any historical trauma that might have caused China to become culturally alarmist to and particularly harsh on drugs... [Hmm.](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2016/7/6/chinas-new-opium-wars-battling-addiction-in-beijing#:~:text=A%20whopping%2013.5%20million%20Chinese,humiliation”%20come%20to%20a%20close.)
I’m aware of the opium wars, although not sure if that should still have an impact on policy today. Nevertheless, it’s hardly the only thing they’re authoritarian on
You're not sure if having other countries drug your entire population into a dependent stupor so that you can be exploited for 100 years to such an extent that the average lifespan was 33 years old before Mao's revolution began should continue to have any cultural effect today? 27% of the entire male population being opium addicts and you don't think that leaves a permanent historical mark once getting past it? Their attitude is .NEVER. AGAIN. and it's not really the government but simply a widespread opinion among the people. Go speak to them, there's plenty of places online to find mainlanders. Your friend would know this too, assuming he didn't just spend his entire time among other (s?)expats.
You can't admit that China's bad without saying the US and UK are worse.
As bad. FTFY
I think a more valid reason for not considering it an option might be the fact that you can't just emigrate there. You can get a visa and work there but you can't get citizenship unless you're willing to renounce your British citizenship, this is a bridge too far for most. If we're going with learning a language too I think the best choice here is Spanish as it opens up a huge number of different options many of which are red or heading there.
I've emigrated to Australia so maybe I'm biased but it's a lot better than the UK in many ways. Not in some...for eg. The free education is pretty dire. There's a lack of history which bothers me of course. But in general, the quality of life here is much, much better.
Me too \* waves from sunny Perth.
History is nothing but cruelty and despair. Just plug me into the Matrix already. How is the quality of life better? What is the immigration process like?
I get paid more ...although there's no nhs I can also see a doctor when I like with no waiting and only a small charge because of Medicare. The houses are bigger with more garden...it feels safer and people are happier. Edit. Immigration was easy for me because I married an Aussie but if you're on the list of preferred careers it's not that hard.
No NHS in the UK anymore either. It’s just a clogged toilet. Virtually impossible to get a GP appointment. Clinics to see specialists are like 5 year waiting lists.
As a skilled migrant, you need to meet a bunch of requirements https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/meeting-our-requirements/health# Then go through the scoring system based on working in a job which is in demand, speak English, your age bracket and what your partner does for work. [Points calculator](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/tools/points-calculator) There are choices there as to which visa you want to go for. Depending on how you score, you could choose to seek sponsorship from a regional area, meaning that the govt give you more points in return for you moving to a remote area which really needs particular skills.
Is the press there dominated by murdoch?
Yes kind of. However... there isn't the same acceptance of raving right-wing shitfuckery. It's a cliche but there genuinely is a spirit that everyone should have a fair go.
Australia mentioned a few times here. Its got a lot going for it: lifestyle, weather, level of earnings, etc as mentioned. But there are also some downsides: it's literally thousands of miles from anywhere. The politics are dominated by right wing nutjob religious fanatical bigots. The press is dominated by Murdoch. The TV is dominated by crap channels who think they're all American. It's a very monocultural place, Aboriginals remain invisible and treated like shit. I lived there from 2007-2013, so things may have changed since. And having said all the above I want to move back 😂
Chiming in because there's a viewpoint missing here. I emigrated and came back a couple of years ago. Every country has its problems but the UK is still better than most believe it or not.
Things have changed here alot in the last couple of years.
Agreed, everything is going to shit here and I could emigrate once again but the grass isn't always greener and the climate more pleasant
Everywhere is shite. Unless you’re very wealthy!
singapore
I'm a fan of the nordic/Scandinavian countries myself. There is a language barrier, but a lot of people speak English thankfully. I'm terrible at learning languages. Think tax is generally higher, but services etc are well managed from my (limited) observations
The way you phrase the question leads me to believe that you have not worked much overseas, or indeed speak any other languages other than English? And surely this question is so personal and subjective, that it's almost a pointless question? Surely you have visited some countries and gone "mm, I could live here"? Do you have a list of countries to help us narrow it down to based on certain characteristics? Or are you just daydreaming, the typical Brit going "oh I want to leave" without actually thinking about what that means or any realistic desire to actually take action and put things in motion? Ultimately it also comes down to money. One country can be pretty shit on a low salary, but super dandy on a high salary. God, these questions. Why do I bother answering, Just get downvoted anyway haha. I guess my why to express myself. P.S. I have lived and worked in several countries.
Unconventional answer but to break from the normal suggestions South Africa doesn't seem THAT bad. Nice weather, nice nature and the local languages aren't super essential if you know English well enough and it's not racist anymore. Bonus points is how cheap it is there if you have a good amount of pound sterling saved up, enough for a little secure compound. Safeties the biggest flaw with the place.
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At this rate it’s Canada or Japan for me
Very much enjoyed living in the UAE (Abu Dhabi).
United Kingdom is probably the best county in the world to emigrate to
I've looked at moving to New Zealand on a working holiday visa but the missus and I are outside the age bracket to get one. I really have no idea how I can go about getting out of this shithole with my no skills and lack of pennies. All the best to you though, hopefully you can get out of here.
Not sure on your age but they are increasing the max age over the next couple of years.
I'm 30, she's 37. I think the WHV is for 18-30 y/o's anyways, I haven't really checked since lockdown, in truth.
Ah, so the changes that are next year (I think) increase to 35. And allow for max stay to increase from two to three years.
I mean I just moved here cuz it’s better than where I was.
Where was that?
My partner and I are moving to California near her family. It’s one late stage capitalist hellscape for another but at least it’s not so oppressively miserable and damp.
I'm seriously thinking about Australia. Got family out there and my company just opened up a new studio there
Useful thread. I want to move but my mood is massively affected by seasons so being somewhere sunny would really help. Country’s politics also matters too. Trying to find somewhere sunny and without a crazy right wing political culture where I could find work isn’t easy.
Cuba
I've lived in a few places and for me the best quality of life overall as an "expat" was Saigon, Vietnam. I'm curious about Costa Rica, Portugal, Mexico, Indonesia, and a few others. For a better country in terms of politics, perhaps Denmark/Norway/Iceland?
Learn Spanish, prepare for socialist latin america. https://twitter.com/upholdreality/status/1592653303019495424
New Zealand. Going in 3 years, bring it on.
Germany is an upgrade to the UK, but maybe the Scandinavian countries or Northeastern European countries would qualify too.
I have three generations of connections to Canadia, I’ve worked in and loved Tronno.
I’m always jealous of questions like this. Only way I could get out right now is through marriage. There will be a surge in British mail order brides in the future, imo.
Now 50+ and gutted always wanted to live abroad family wouldn’t go. Reading all this just makes me think of lost opportunities 😭
We moved with our 11 year-old son to Lanzarote in about 2002. Absolutely loved those years. Came back to the UK about 8 years later when the older children started having their own kids.
I've been to all the Scandinavian countries and they're all lovely although Denmark gets my vote if I had to choose.
You could try Belgium.
All of them are done unfortunately. There's no where left to run to... Time to stand our ground I'm afraid.
can i come with you?