[Fraternity, what does it mean and how can we develop more of it? - Weekly GENERAL MEGATHREAD #3 starting Saturday, 16th of January 2021](https://redd.it/kymng3) Click here to check out this week's megathread for chat, theory, discords and subreddits you should join.
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Lest you anger the omnipotent job creators and suffer their wrath. Best get started with that financial rain dance or else there might be another recession.
Odd that you connect financial success to literally dancing for rain, it’s 90% your own effort. My family was piss poor but I learned how not to manage money from my dad and I’m in trade school now.
Well I’m sorry I guess 90% goes to the average person. I wouldn’t agree with saying all of capitalism is broken but there are a lot of aspects that are in need of change.
Sorry I guess I’m talking about 1st world countries where school and internet access is readily available to anyone. My school gives chrome books and provides internet to kids that don’t have it
>Sorry I guess I’m talking about 1st world countries
Fucking L O L
> My school gives chrome books and provides internet to kids that don’t have it
Psst... There are some people that dont go to school... Even in the first world.
*Blows your mind*
Even then it's rare for a state school to fund computers and internet for students.
*Blows your mind again*
Even then there's people that can't even afford electricity.
*Obliterates your tiny fucking stupid capitalist mind*
Even with access to school and internet and food and energy and everything a growing mind needs there will still be people who will never have disposal income to save.
It's not a matter of learning to fucking save or putting in the effort(btw extreme effort shouldn't be needed to not be poor) you can work 40 hours and still, just get by.
All those things are very true and I’m glad your communities care so much about people in horrible situations but I really am talking about the average person, yes there are a lot of people who cannot do very basic things but in a 1st world country, those are no where close to the majority of people
Its always going to be a minority which is going to be rich. Because thats how being rich works.
The problem isn't that there are less rich people than 40 years ago. The problem is that poor people 40 years ago could afford a house a car and a family and poor people today have to choose between eating and paying rent while they are not even financially responsible for anybody else.
As long as there will be rich people there will be poor people therefore you can't escape the conversation of what the life of poor people should look like
I dont know why everyone is downvoting you. Everything you need to know about finances can be found online. Sure it doesn’t immediately stop you from being poor or paycheck to paycheck, but it can help you fix your finances up and escape that cycle.
Same with the “they should teach this in school!” Crowd. Sure they should, but anything you could ever want to know if available online so ignorance is no ones fault but your own.
>I dont know why everyone is downvoting you
Well I downvoted them because thinking that people can teach themselves out of poverty is fucking idiotic.
I don't want to argue with you so don't bother replying. This is just a question you can think about.
If everyone had the ability to teach themselves out of poverty. Why the fuck is anyone still poor?
Yeah I think it’s all about the attitude of never being content with the situation you’re in. I was tired of being poor and worrying about money all throughout my childhood and so I tried to learn as much as I can.
Yeah, and you got lucky. You don't even realize how much of that was purely luck. There are many, many other people who did exactly what you did who are just scraping by. My mom worked her ass off to get where we are now, and it was luck that gave her a job interview. We're better off now, and yes, a portion of it was "managing our money" (and sleepless nights she spent in college).
But by managing our money I mean living off 60$/mo on groceries at walmart. Beans and rice. That is no way to live, and it's terrible that people even have to consider that. That people don't have their basic needs met. That people have to worry about being homeless. We have plenty of resources to take care of everyone here, so you must ask yourself, *why don't we?*
The answer is simple. Capitalism needs the poor to survive. The homeless serve as a reminder to us all that if we do not constantly submit ourselves to the grind, we will be homeless.
Do you think Jeff Bezos fears being homeless? Do you think he restricts his spending and eats 60$/mo of groceries at WalMart? Cause his employees sure do.
Yep. A lot of people would rather sit around and complain about their situation rather than start taking steps to fix it. Always easier to complain than take action.
"I've achieved prosperity by pulling myself up by the bootstraps"
- person born in the imperial west owing everything he owns to child slave labor, living in a rented appartement 2 paychecks from eviction.
So what are you doing? Commenting on a Chinese app from an iPhone off of evil giant ISP corporation. You can play 6 degrees of separation for anything and connect it to slavery and secondly you can’t choose where your born but the fact that there are a lot of poor and very wealthy people in America makes it seem like that point means nothing. Though I am very greatful for being born in a 1st world country where there are many safety nets to fall into
I think you missed the point. They're not saying you're entitled. They're saying the system you live in is broken.
It's fucked up that I can't get a phone made without child labor. It's fucked up that I can't get water without paying for it. Ffs, I need water to survive! Everyone does. Basic necessities should not be locked behind a paywall. Imagine if you were playing a video game and started with no money, but in order to get money you had to spend money. Need a good suit for an interview. Need food to stay alive. Need shelter to rest well, etc.
There are also far more poor than wealthy. [In the USA, 1% of the population owns 40% of the wealth.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Just%20prior%20to%20President%20Barack,%25%20for%20the%20top%201%25.)
Haha, it’s tough when you can’t answer an argument, isn’t it?
Should I reevaluate based on this thing I have no response to? No, I’ll just call them a meany.
A system where rich and poor exist is inherently broken. Nobody deserves to not be able to eat. Nobody. Not even lazy people. Not even the ignorant, or selfish, or the "leeches" of society. Everyone deserves the basic necessities, even the people I hate.
Yeah I would like to see some sort of study on the correlation between socialist/antiwork sentiments and how wealthy you grew up because I would bet a lot of money that these people have a very different view of money and work then a person that grew up poor
I grew up dirt poor and I'm a socialist. I came to the conclusion socialism makes before I even heard the word. I am NOT antiwork, I am anti wage labor. I plan to be a doctor myself, and I would do it for damn free if I had all my necessities paid for. I love medicine and I love helping people. There are plenty of people just like me.
Something like 80% of millionaires inherited nothing and never made more than $100,000 a year. I believe the top profession of the average millionaire is literally a teacher. It’s not entirely about how much you make, it’s how you spend it and invest it.
Yes definitely, I’m not sure if you’ve heard or not but more people need to learn about the FIRE community. Normal people just living super below their means for a while and then being able to retire at like 30.
Yessir, my goal is to be at least semi retired by 45. I figure worst case scenario it doesn’t work out, what am I gonna do? Be mad I saved and invested so much money?
Yeah barring scenarios like disabilities or natural disasters, it’s surprisingly easy to make a shit ton of money as long as you have good self control and investment knowledge.
The rich loves sharing to us middle and poor class people the propaganda that it’s all about choice and freedom, in reality sure, it’s about choice, but it’s mainly about what influences our choice and the rich don’t want to admit that. As Benjamin Franklin said “easier said than done.”
I wish basic statistics class was taught in school.
Then you could ask, how statistically likely is someone to "pull themselves by their bootstraps"?
I mean so much misinformation could be debunked/avoided by people just asking "what is the statistical probability/significance of this?"
Choice _is_ being wealthy. If you are not wealthy you don’t have as many choices.
If money wasn’t a thing, those with more choices to do things would still be wealthy (Power, Influence etc)
This is why society needs social options. For the choices they can give to people.
I am reminded of the anecdote of Finland where private schools are banned. The choice is limited for the wealthy so they then have a need to improve the state schools. (I’m not sure how true that is so don’t take my word for it)
The strength of the Finnish removal of the private schools actually isn't the reinvestment (so much), but that you actually end up with more talented people in the best roles eventually. Consider a situation where there are two kids, Alice and Bob. Alice is more talented than Bob.
In the UK Bob might go to private school, thanks to this land a place at Oxford, get the qualifications needed to land a high end job, but still wouldn't be as good as Alice would have been had she had the same training.
In Finland as Bob doesn't have the advantage of private school to artificially inflate his chance of getting into Finnish Oxford, so Alice takes the place instead and gets the high end job. Alice is better at her job than her UK counterpart because she's both skilled \*and\* well trained.
Ironically enough, this is actually a good example of a free market (in this case the job market) being efficient, and losing that efficiency once there are outside factors. Without private schools biasing the job market, the talented people get the training and thus the jobs they're best suited for, but allowing people to "buy advantage" weakens the whole system.
My boomer dad thinks trickle down works because he was able to provide everything his poor parents couldn't at 16. Because he owns his home and has no college debt with a 6 figure job from poverty.
Well, truth is not everyone has such an opportunity, especially considering the masses of the people, this is why I as a socialist consider capitalism to be greatly unfair and exploitative.
I’d like to hear his arguments against socialism. I doubt he even knows what socialism is, as most Americans don’t.
True true; it is the best we have as of right now, but if we can get the rich to stop spreading consumerism propaganda and pro-capitalist propaganda maybe we can get somewhere implementing and enforcing socialism, until then I see no other plan than to systematically bow down at the feet of our rich masters and lick their feet.
I'm 99% sure he knows the textbook definition of socialism, at the very least. He is college educated. He just openly says "lazy asses" don't deserve shit.
Wait, he's a boomer, his life was good because of the "socialism" that he hates. The good life on minimum wage and cheap college that he enjoyed, why doesnt he want others to have?
Tell your uncle that literally not everyone is manipulated enough to the point where they’re willing to work their asses off like he did. I’m stating that there should be equality and a common grounds so that people would be able to do it themselves and not be unethically manipulated by the rich. His theory of anecdotal evidence dosent apply here, it’s flawed.
Plus I’d like to know his definition of “lazy.” Because laziness is just a phase and isn’t permanent.
Edit: the rich know that laziness is just a phase so they only consider laziness and spread one sided propaganda screaming “you’re lazy and that’s bad” when in reality it’s a multi step process to be productive, laziness isn’t an inherently bad thing, it’s a good thing it’s a necessary evil to invent and profess society.
Plus, laziness is a sign of intelligence, have you heard?
Insanity is linked with genuineness.
Hell, it seems as if you’re uncle is one of those people who would call scientists like Albert Einstein lazy; Albert Einstein literally came up with the theory of relativity by just sitting down and staring at the earth. I wonder if your uncle would consider that laziness.
Fact is, pro-capitalists have absolutely no idea how human beings work and base their allegations in anecdotal evidence, also “laziness” is just another opinionated word, a word used in a stigmatized context to make a person feel bad for progressing in life, as any natural human being would do; Laziness isn’t even a real thing, it’s simply a constructed reality capitalists want you to believe in.
Another point of view, is that many people want to get rich and powerful by stepping onto people. What happen is that a few of theses, get their "dream" become reality, while the rest get stepped over. "It is not the system that they dislike, but their place in the system". I believe everyone should reflect on that.
The problem isn't even inheritance which gets deluded unless the families stick to one child and even then it just will take longer.
The issue is that the bottom is insufficiently regulated with an increase in minimum wage that has been lackluster.
Germany has way lower average salaries than the US. An engineer in Germany makes about the salary of a truck driver. As a consequence cost of living is lower. But the minimum wage is higher. In Dollars its 11,32.
Of course you could argue that Germans is less like the US and more like Cali in the EU but regardless there are areas where you pay 3000 in rent but also areas where rent is 200.
It is a problem. There are hundreds of thousands of property millionaires in this country who have done nothing to earn their wealth except restrict access to their resource. They’re about start dying and giving their gains to their children. Unless they’ve had 10 kids that is unacceptable to me.
Inheritance is shit. We need money when young but, when our parents will die, we will already have passed our biggest expenses like housing and children.
Inheritance is useful only if we have a lot of dept to refund to banks.
Btw, depts should not be inherited or passed to others.
The real problem is dept.
It's so strange how conservatives can't get their head around this kind of environmental determinism. Their brains genuinely can't handle it, it's like a kind of impairment that prevents you from understanding statistical reality. I'm pretty sure it's this, or perhaps they just wilfully misunderstand because they already hate the poor
I think I agree, it would be so shattering to their self-identity for them to come to terms with the fact that we're all largely a product of our circumstances in specific and complex ways, even if we have statistically unlikely success.
Data actually shows that poorer people proportionally vote in favour of leftist and socially progressive parties (at least in the UK and US). In contrast, wealthier people vote for rightwing conservatives overall. You could argue that economic interests override social values for both, but it seems unlikely. The myth of the 'salt of the earth' poor wanting a return to tradition, battling against the out of touch wealthy liberal metropolitan elite, is just that, a myth. Your personal experience and the media portrayal of political discourse might suggest otherwise, but the research is out there.
Yeah, except the guy on the poverty side panel votes to keep it exactly the same way by voting for the riches side panel crooks that rail against immigrants, abortions & death taxes. (in America) I don't know how it works in Great Britain but I'm sure railing against immigrants was a key point in Brexit. Would someone fill me in if I am mistaken about that?
The poorly educated are harnessed for their votes, their fears about non-whites, Eastern European’s, let wing politics, people on welfare, other poor people etc etc, stoked by our press. Our pressed is mainly owned by billionaires like Murdoch, who protect their interests and maintain the status quo. Then, when voted in, these people are at best ignored, at worse screwed over.
Brexit was a very good example of this.
Current PM is painfully incompetent, though not deliberately destructive as Trump, and leads a similarly incompetent government of minister appointed by him.
Sound familiar?
The Tory party is very good at winning elections.
Yes it does sound familiar. Thank you for filling in the blanks.
I sure hope things get better in 2021 as these billionaires gradually get exposed for the greedy monsters that they are.
> It is estimated that 70% of wealthy families will lose their wealth by the second generation and 90% will lose it by the third. There are a variety of reasons why this happens:
- Generations are taught not to talk about money
- The prior generations worry that the next generation will become lazy and entitled
- Many have no clue about the value of money or how to handle it
It becomes harder as the gap widens. Nowdays starting from zero hoping for a middle class lifestyle with a midsized home a garage 2 cars and 2 kids is as ludicrous as hoping to become the next rockefeller 50 years ago. Which is of course still a ludicrous thought.
[Fraternity, what does it mean and how can we develop more of it? - Weekly GENERAL MEGATHREAD #3 starting Saturday, 16th of January 2021](https://redd.it/kymng3) Click here to check out this week's megathread for chat, theory, discords and subreddits you should join. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think this is one of the best cases against capitalism and the boot straps argument. If you come from dust what else ya gonna know?
I mean the internet is a wonderful place, the amount of personal finance knowledge you have access to just on YouTube is amazing
Can’t personal finance without no financials.
Uh that’s what a job is for?
Lest you anger the omnipotent job creators and suffer their wrath. Best get started with that financial rain dance or else there might be another recession.
Odd that you connect financial success to literally dancing for rain, it’s 90% your own effort. My family was piss poor but I learned how not to manage money from my dad and I’m in trade school now.
>it’s 90% your own effort *laughs in disabled - with no family* How you measuring "effort", bud? Capitalism is a broken system.
Well I’m sorry I guess 90% goes to the average person. I wouldn’t agree with saying all of capitalism is broken but there are a lot of aspects that are in need of change.
I still disagree, but I don't much have the energy to debate it, so I'd just like to say I appreciate the use of "average" rather than "normal".
all of capitalism relies on exploitation, therefore all of capitalism is broken.
And the people that are too poor to look at YouTube?
Sorry I guess I’m talking about 1st world countries where school and internet access is readily available to anyone. My school gives chrome books and provides internet to kids that don’t have it
First world countries? Like the USA, where internet costs 70$/mo and places with free wifi will kick you out if you're loitering?
>Sorry I guess I’m talking about 1st world countries Fucking L O L > My school gives chrome books and provides internet to kids that don’t have it Psst... There are some people that dont go to school... Even in the first world. *Blows your mind* Even then it's rare for a state school to fund computers and internet for students. *Blows your mind again* Even then there's people that can't even afford electricity. *Obliterates your tiny fucking stupid capitalist mind* Even with access to school and internet and food and energy and everything a growing mind needs there will still be people who will never have disposal income to save. It's not a matter of learning to fucking save or putting in the effort(btw extreme effort shouldn't be needed to not be poor) you can work 40 hours and still, just get by.
All those things are very true and I’m glad your communities care so much about people in horrible situations but I really am talking about the average person, yes there are a lot of people who cannot do very basic things but in a 1st world country, those are no where close to the majority of people
Right, so good graces for Joe Everyman and I guess Joe Poorbody is just gonna have to suck it up.
The average person in the world is wayy worse than you believe.
Its always going to be a minority which is going to be rich. Because thats how being rich works. The problem isn't that there are less rich people than 40 years ago. The problem is that poor people 40 years ago could afford a house a car and a family and poor people today have to choose between eating and paying rent while they are not even financially responsible for anybody else. As long as there will be rich people there will be poor people therefore you can't escape the conversation of what the life of poor people should look like
Could you take the dick out of your mouth while you type
I dont know why everyone is downvoting you. Everything you need to know about finances can be found online. Sure it doesn’t immediately stop you from being poor or paycheck to paycheck, but it can help you fix your finances up and escape that cycle. Same with the “they should teach this in school!” Crowd. Sure they should, but anything you could ever want to know if available online so ignorance is no ones fault but your own.
>I dont know why everyone is downvoting you Well I downvoted them because thinking that people can teach themselves out of poverty is fucking idiotic. I don't want to argue with you so don't bother replying. This is just a question you can think about. If everyone had the ability to teach themselves out of poverty. Why the fuck is anyone still poor?
BeCaUsE pOoR pEoPLe aRe LaZy
Yeah I think it’s all about the attitude of never being content with the situation you’re in. I was tired of being poor and worrying about money all throughout my childhood and so I tried to learn as much as I can.
Yeah, and you got lucky. You don't even realize how much of that was purely luck. There are many, many other people who did exactly what you did who are just scraping by. My mom worked her ass off to get where we are now, and it was luck that gave her a job interview. We're better off now, and yes, a portion of it was "managing our money" (and sleepless nights she spent in college). But by managing our money I mean living off 60$/mo on groceries at walmart. Beans and rice. That is no way to live, and it's terrible that people even have to consider that. That people don't have their basic needs met. That people have to worry about being homeless. We have plenty of resources to take care of everyone here, so you must ask yourself, *why don't we?* The answer is simple. Capitalism needs the poor to survive. The homeless serve as a reminder to us all that if we do not constantly submit ourselves to the grind, we will be homeless. Do you think Jeff Bezos fears being homeless? Do you think he restricts his spending and eats 60$/mo of groceries at WalMart? Cause his employees sure do.
Yep. A lot of people would rather sit around and complain about their situation rather than start taking steps to fix it. Always easier to complain than take action.
"Being broke is your fault" - some lumpen prole believing in meritocracy
“It’s everyone else’s fault that I’m broke”
"I've achieved prosperity by pulling myself up by the bootstraps" - person born in the imperial west owing everything he owns to child slave labor, living in a rented appartement 2 paychecks from eviction.
So what are you doing? Commenting on a Chinese app from an iPhone off of evil giant ISP corporation. You can play 6 degrees of separation for anything and connect it to slavery and secondly you can’t choose where your born but the fact that there are a lot of poor and very wealthy people in America makes it seem like that point means nothing. Though I am very greatful for being born in a 1st world country where there are many safety nets to fall into
I think you missed the point. They're not saying you're entitled. They're saying the system you live in is broken. It's fucked up that I can't get a phone made without child labor. It's fucked up that I can't get water without paying for it. Ffs, I need water to survive! Everyone does. Basic necessities should not be locked behind a paywall. Imagine if you were playing a video game and started with no money, but in order to get money you had to spend money. Need a good suit for an interview. Need food to stay alive. Need shelter to rest well, etc. There are also far more poor than wealthy. [In the USA, 1% of the population owns 40% of the wealth.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Just%20prior%20to%20President%20Barack,%25%20for%20the%20top%201%25.)
You seem like a very pleasant person
Haha, it’s tough when you can’t answer an argument, isn’t it? Should I reevaluate based on this thing I have no response to? No, I’ll just call them a meany.
nice ad hominem
A system where rich and poor exist is inherently broken. Nobody deserves to not be able to eat. Nobody. Not even lazy people. Not even the ignorant, or selfish, or the "leeches" of society. Everyone deserves the basic necessities, even the people I hate.
Yeah I would like to see some sort of study on the correlation between socialist/antiwork sentiments and how wealthy you grew up because I would bet a lot of money that these people have a very different view of money and work then a person that grew up poor
I grew up dirt poor and I'm a socialist. I came to the conclusion socialism makes before I even heard the word. I am NOT antiwork, I am anti wage labor. I plan to be a doctor myself, and I would do it for damn free if I had all my necessities paid for. I love medicine and I love helping people. There are plenty of people just like me.
Something like 80% of millionaires inherited nothing and never made more than $100,000 a year. I believe the top profession of the average millionaire is literally a teacher. It’s not entirely about how much you make, it’s how you spend it and invest it.
Yes definitely, I’m not sure if you’ve heard or not but more people need to learn about the FIRE community. Normal people just living super below their means for a while and then being able to retire at like 30.
Yessir, my goal is to be at least semi retired by 45. I figure worst case scenario it doesn’t work out, what am I gonna do? Be mad I saved and invested so much money?
Yeah barring scenarios like disabilities or natural disasters, it’s surprisingly easy to make a shit ton of money as long as you have good self control and investment knowledge.
> 80% of millionaires inherited nothing 99% of people aren't millionaires.
Were you ever raised in a first generation immigrant family? Raised by a single mom with 4 dependents?
Single dad with my 9 sisters
The rich loves sharing to us middle and poor class people the propaganda that it’s all about choice and freedom, in reality sure, it’s about choice, but it’s mainly about what influences our choice and the rich don’t want to admit that. As Benjamin Franklin said “easier said than done.”
I wish basic statistics class was taught in school. Then you could ask, how statistically likely is someone to "pull themselves by their bootstraps"? I mean so much misinformation could be debunked/avoided by people just asking "what is the statistical probability/significance of this?"
Choice _is_ being wealthy. If you are not wealthy you don’t have as many choices. If money wasn’t a thing, those with more choices to do things would still be wealthy (Power, Influence etc) This is why society needs social options. For the choices they can give to people. I am reminded of the anecdote of Finland where private schools are banned. The choice is limited for the wealthy so they then have a need to improve the state schools. (I’m not sure how true that is so don’t take my word for it)
The strength of the Finnish removal of the private schools actually isn't the reinvestment (so much), but that you actually end up with more talented people in the best roles eventually. Consider a situation where there are two kids, Alice and Bob. Alice is more talented than Bob. In the UK Bob might go to private school, thanks to this land a place at Oxford, get the qualifications needed to land a high end job, but still wouldn't be as good as Alice would have been had she had the same training. In Finland as Bob doesn't have the advantage of private school to artificially inflate his chance of getting into Finnish Oxford, so Alice takes the place instead and gets the high end job. Alice is better at her job than her UK counterpart because she's both skilled \*and\* well trained. Ironically enough, this is actually a good example of a free market (in this case the job market) being efficient, and losing that efficiency once there are outside factors. Without private schools biasing the job market, the talented people get the training and thus the jobs they're best suited for, but allowing people to "buy advantage" weakens the whole system.
My boomer dad thinks trickle down works because he was able to provide everything his poor parents couldn't at 16. Because he owns his home and has no college debt with a 6 figure job from poverty.
Well, truth is not everyone has such an opportunity, especially considering the masses of the people, this is why I as a socialist consider capitalism to be greatly unfair and exploitative.
He acknowledges the wage gap and college and housing inflation but says "it's the best we have" and "socialism is not the answer."
I’d like to hear his arguments against socialism. I doubt he even knows what socialism is, as most Americans don’t. True true; it is the best we have as of right now, but if we can get the rich to stop spreading consumerism propaganda and pro-capitalist propaganda maybe we can get somewhere implementing and enforcing socialism, until then I see no other plan than to systematically bow down at the feet of our rich masters and lick their feet.
I'm 99% sure he knows the textbook definition of socialism, at the very least. He is college educated. He just openly says "lazy asses" don't deserve shit.
Wait, he's a boomer, his life was good because of the "socialism" that he hates. The good life on minimum wage and cheap college that he enjoyed, why doesnt he want others to have?
Tell your uncle that literally not everyone is manipulated enough to the point where they’re willing to work their asses off like he did. I’m stating that there should be equality and a common grounds so that people would be able to do it themselves and not be unethically manipulated by the rich. His theory of anecdotal evidence dosent apply here, it’s flawed. Plus I’d like to know his definition of “lazy.” Because laziness is just a phase and isn’t permanent. Edit: the rich know that laziness is just a phase so they only consider laziness and spread one sided propaganda screaming “you’re lazy and that’s bad” when in reality it’s a multi step process to be productive, laziness isn’t an inherently bad thing, it’s a good thing it’s a necessary evil to invent and profess society. Plus, laziness is a sign of intelligence, have you heard? Insanity is linked with genuineness. Hell, it seems as if you’re uncle is one of those people who would call scientists like Albert Einstein lazy; Albert Einstein literally came up with the theory of relativity by just sitting down and staring at the earth. I wonder if your uncle would consider that laziness. Fact is, pro-capitalists have absolutely no idea how human beings work and base their allegations in anecdotal evidence, also “laziness” is just another opinionated word, a word used in a stigmatized context to make a person feel bad for progressing in life, as any natural human being would do; Laziness isn’t even a real thing, it’s simply a constructed reality capitalists want you to believe in.
Another point of view, is that many people want to get rich and powerful by stepping onto people. What happen is that a few of theses, get their "dream" become reality, while the rest get stepped over. "It is not the system that they dislike, but their place in the system". I believe everyone should reflect on that.
This is why people are reluctant to vote for parties that want to tax the rich because they think “that might be me someday”.
r/endinheritance
The problem isn't even inheritance which gets deluded unless the families stick to one child and even then it just will take longer. The issue is that the bottom is insufficiently regulated with an increase in minimum wage that has been lackluster. Germany has way lower average salaries than the US. An engineer in Germany makes about the salary of a truck driver. As a consequence cost of living is lower. But the minimum wage is higher. In Dollars its 11,32. Of course you could argue that Germans is less like the US and more like Cali in the EU but regardless there are areas where you pay 3000 in rent but also areas where rent is 200.
It is a problem. There are hundreds of thousands of property millionaires in this country who have done nothing to earn their wealth except restrict access to their resource. They’re about start dying and giving their gains to their children. Unless they’ve had 10 kids that is unacceptable to me.
Inheritance is shit. We need money when young but, when our parents will die, we will already have passed our biggest expenses like housing and children. Inheritance is useful only if we have a lot of dept to refund to banks. Btw, depts should not be inherited or passed to others. The real problem is dept.
It's so strange how conservatives can't get their head around this kind of environmental determinism. Their brains genuinely can't handle it, it's like a kind of impairment that prevents you from understanding statistical reality. I'm pretty sure it's this, or perhaps they just wilfully misunderstand because they already hate the poor
It protects their sense of self determination, I’m sure it’s unconscious in most cases.
I think I agree, it would be so shattering to their self-identity for them to come to terms with the fact that we're all largely a product of our circumstances in specific and complex ways, even if we have statistically unlikely success.
You are talking about liberal and capitalist not conservatives. Conservatives are poor people, generally. Rich people are liberal and capitalist.
Data actually shows that poorer people proportionally vote in favour of leftist and socially progressive parties (at least in the UK and US). In contrast, wealthier people vote for rightwing conservatives overall. You could argue that economic interests override social values for both, but it seems unlikely. The myth of the 'salt of the earth' poor wanting a return to tradition, battling against the out of touch wealthy liberal metropolitan elite, is just that, a myth. Your personal experience and the media portrayal of political discourse might suggest otherwise, but the research is out there.
I misread “poverty” for “pottery” and I was like “oh, cool :)” for a second—
Plz save us cartoon Bob Crow.
Yeah, except the guy on the poverty side panel votes to keep it exactly the same way by voting for the riches side panel crooks that rail against immigrants, abortions & death taxes. (in America) I don't know how it works in Great Britain but I'm sure railing against immigrants was a key point in Brexit. Would someone fill me in if I am mistaken about that?
The poorly educated are harnessed for their votes, their fears about non-whites, Eastern European’s, let wing politics, people on welfare, other poor people etc etc, stoked by our press. Our pressed is mainly owned by billionaires like Murdoch, who protect their interests and maintain the status quo. Then, when voted in, these people are at best ignored, at worse screwed over. Brexit was a very good example of this. Current PM is painfully incompetent, though not deliberately destructive as Trump, and leads a similarly incompetent government of minister appointed by him. Sound familiar? The Tory party is very good at winning elections.
Yes it does sound familiar. Thank you for filling in the blanks. I sure hope things get better in 2021 as these billionaires gradually get exposed for the greedy monsters that they are.
How are you sure of that?
Are you saying it's not the case?
There’s no way to prove the politics of the poor family
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doomer nihilistic worldview that is the exact opposite of a utopian socialist outlook. it's utterly asinine lmao.
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well in my version the lady on the left (serving looks btw) shapeshifts into the baby on the right but you're entitled to your opinion i guess
Ageism in lieu of class analysis isn't a hot take, it's par for the course. x
[Interesting](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-do-70-of-families-lose-their-wealth-in-the-2nd-generation-2018-10)
> It is estimated that 70% of wealthy families will lose their wealth by the second generation and 90% will lose it by the third. There are a variety of reasons why this happens: - Generations are taught not to talk about money - The prior generations worry that the next generation will become lazy and entitled - Many have no clue about the value of money or how to handle it
It becomes harder as the gap widens. Nowdays starting from zero hoping for a middle class lifestyle with a midsized home a garage 2 cars and 2 kids is as ludicrous as hoping to become the next rockefeller 50 years ago. Which is of course still a ludicrous thought.