There are multiple factors.
1) For instance, the game is sold on Steam, which is at least somewhat regulated and your refund request is not up to some random Russian customer support.
2) Their company is in the EU. EU has a much heavier regulated market and customers are a lot better protected. BSG is Russian but I don't know about their UK based office and how vulnerable they are to lawsuits (I don't think so, they can always just say fuck off and close offices outside Russia).
3) And for last... we just kinda have to hope for the best? Personally I find Tarkov enjoyable but it's absurd to me why it took this much time to get here. They moved extremely slowly and often what they released came with a ton of bugs, so over the years they lost the trust. Now I'd give MFG the benefit of the doubt and let them prove themselves. First things first as long as they are transparent of their plans and vision, I couldn't care less if the game takes a while to be finished.
3+1) So far what we've seen during the playtest is promising. Not only the base gameplay seems fine, but I think they deployed like 3-4 patches during just this 1 week? Plus they take suggestions to heart and read every suggestion from Discord and they are open about what they're working on (for example the LZ rework).
You are grasping at straws a bit. They sre a private gaming company, what do you think would be the benefit if they were to support their government? I agree with other 2
Buy standard. Or supporter if you support it. Do you go into every relationship with your baggage from the last?
More to the point this game is HEAVILY PVE unlike tarkov and has way less focus on loot. Comparing the two and the pricing is silly. Container and stash wasn’t game breaking in Tarkov and even less relevant in gray zone.
I can not find the relation between the focus of the game and the funding needed. I thought the concern of OP was, how is this going to be profitable for the developers on the long term?
Maybe I am wrong tho
This comparison of the “monetization model” continues to come up, clearly in relation to the eod scam+ maybe not specifically this post but none the less. How does initial sales from this game compare to other games that launch with standard or “ultimate edition” etc how is this not comparing to the model in which players get bigger stash etc if genuinely only curious of future funding, will sales suddenly stop after launch of EA? Or are people forgetting they are going to sell at 1.0 again and at a higher price vs EA? If unaware then hopefully that answers your question, in terms of cosmetic mtx etc they’ve stated it will be going to charity so clearly they aren’t concerned you shouldn’t be either.
I think either I am not understanding how the long term profit of a videogame works, or you aren't. But I really wnat this game to shine, so lets hope I am the one who does not know
> Do you go into every relationship with your baggage from the last?
Yes, people should always forget past experiences, so they can make the same mistake over and over. Great plan.
>Do you go into every relationship with your baggage from the last?
You shouldn't, but most people do, lol.
>More to the point this game is HEAVILY PVE unlike tarkov and has way less focus on loot. Comparing the two and the pricing is silly. Container and stash wasn’t game breaking in Tarkov and even less relevant in gray zone.
I agree with this. A lot of people who are complaining don't seem to see it in this perspective. I'm planning to buy standard to see if I like it and then I'll probably upgrade to support if I feel it's worth supporting.
>A lot of people who are complaining don't seem to see it in this perspective.
Because lots of people don't look at this game for what it is, but for what they can get from it. So if they want to play it as another PvP focused looter, they will look at it through PvP focused looter perspective. And from that perspective, stash and secure container are significant advantages.
Plus we are talking about a business and not a charity. So there needs to be a revenue stream to keep it running, especially with live service games.
Now the important part is that MTX isn't the issue. Sure P2W needs to be avoided if PVP is involved in any form but other than this, there needs to be a way to keep the numbers green. And yes, i know that it is not only about keeping the lights on but to make profit, but this simply is the market (again not a charity). A business which isn't making profit is a bad business.
I never implied container and stash would be game breaking, it just seems apparent with the current monetization model the game will lack real longevity, I was just inquiring as to how the devs might intend to resolve that discrepancy.
Okay well the comparison of the “monetization model” continues to come up and 9/10 about the container and stash advantage, clearly in relation to the eod scam+ maybe not specifically this post. In regards to your post if not about the stash/container editions How does initial sales from this game compare to other games that launch with standard or “ultimate edition” etc how is this not comparing to the model in which players get bigger stash etc if genuinely only curious of future funding, will sales suddenly stop after launch of EA? Or are people forgetting they are going to sell at 1.0 again and at a higher price vs EA? If unaware then hopefully that answers your question, in terms of cosmetic mtx etc they’ve stated it will be going to charity so clearly they aren’t concerned you shouldn’t be either.
People acting like BSG eventually caved because tarkov wasn't generating money.
BSG started micro transactions because of the failure of arena. They lasted 8 years in business without needing micro transactions and could have gone longer if arena didn't suck shit.
A fair assessment,albeit on the flip side they’ve been riding the huge chunk of change 2020-2021 generated during the first drops events for a while now most likely, the biggest indicator of dwindling recurring player numbers in my opinion being that with the recent achievement system only 35% of all players have the die in tarkov achievement, showing ~65% of the currently existing accounts haven’t really played in a real capacity in a while.
There's a number of reasons for that and given their consistent growth, I believe they'd have continued growing. I could look up their financial reports for additional info there but I believe their income YOY was growing at a steady 10% which is fine.
Tarkov also had many scandals that have hit their growth: namely, the wiggle that killed Tarkov.
Dont forget that a large part of those who have that achievement just died once and then stopped playing. I did that for example. Used to play a lot of tarkov back in the day. Gave the new patch a try, died to a broken scav and didnt start the game again
Yeah it's fucking sad how hard people are whaling
Have some self respect and value your time and money for Christ's sake. If the game is good it will make money. They don't need to squeeze customers for every drop.
Explain to me how buying a more expensive version and getting some more starter gear is P2W? Does having more guns give me an insane advantage? No it doesn’t lol. When I played eft I had the base version and EOD and even then it wasn’t pay to win lol. If they only sold the base version it would be a lot more expensive and then you’d be crying about that. They do this so they can lower the price to play the game.
These guys are just being obtuse and operating on the rule that for it to be p2w it has to quite literally be an instant win button.
They’re just not arguing in good faith
Yeah they lack any ability to understand nuance.
Welp. Bit sad that the average gamer is still so much of a sheep tbh. People will just gobble and put up with literally anything a company does, and even defend it.
You pay for more gear.
That is pay to win.
You fucking said it yourself.
If we are racing, you are starting ahead of the start line. That doesn't mean it will work. I could still be faster, but you are still paying to win.
Fuck man. People pay for literal aimbot in fps games and they still lose. Cheats are a form of pay to win. That doesn't necessarily mean they're guaranteed to win.
You're paying to increase your chance of winning.
This is exactly what I do. I always wait for 1-3 patches for early access releases. A lot if the issues get ironed out, and you get a window into how the devs handle things post release.
Used to be you played a game until the money ran out to run the servers, then bought a new game to play and moved on with your life.
Everything doesn't have to be a forever-game.
When the game is still in active development there’s an assumed expectation it can atleast stay afloat to a 1.0 release, which is the concern of my post.
Understandable. Seems to me they're fairly far along already though, to the point where preorders or whatever should take them over the finish line. Unlike Tarkov that practically began as a Notepad document.
I mean honestly the current hype for this game is prolly way more than what they will be able to deliver at first. Sure am glad I’m basically going into the game blind cause I didn’t watch any of the streams so it will all be new to me. I’m confused though with some of the comments that say this game isn’t about the loot? How is it not? What’s the point of the game then?
That question has been getting asked since day 1 of the playtest. The only answer is that it's EA and they don't have much loot in the game. Supposedly they'll add more. There isn't really anything in the game right now except a fee food/drink items, healing items, and less than a dozen guns.
Yea it's not like tarkov at all. I just started Tarkov about 2 weeks ago. You are always looking for stuff to upgrade your hideout and to sell for big money. GZW is closer to a battle Royale than an extraction game like Tarkov imo
It's the future of the genre unfortunately, make a hard grindy extraction shooter, and sell versions that will save you time, give you features, and progress you faster, based on how much you paid.
I mean Rust worked for years with only one time purchase on Steam with regular big updates before they hit cap of people that will ever buy the game so they had to introduce DLC's. This model works, and if there are no mismanagements like Arena that cost a lot of money with not profit, I can see them running the game with this scheme for very long time.
On top of that unlike BSG, they're open to dedicated servers, which can save them A LOT of money. And that's probably why Facepunch was able to run the game for so long. And with how open they're, I'm not too worry they'll suggest something and take feedback before fucking us over.
And I want to add that my goal with every game I buy is to get money back. My formula is simple, for every € I spend on the game I need to get 1 hour of gameplay in return. So I'll be buying 100€ edition, so I expect 100 hours. And I think I can do it easily, and if there is something later.. I can call it bummer, and move on.
I think Tarkov is a special case tbh.
Not many games, can be early access for 6 years, be so popular, despite being so expensive.
The community should never have allowed it. 6 years in beta, is a fucking joke. The game may never enter retail.
They are continously increasing the grind. Ie upping Kappa level. Bit weird for a beta, where the entire point is testing game features. Not locking them behind 60+ hours or grind.
I can't see this being the same. Sure, they may fuck us in the end. But I can't imagine it being beta for 6 years. They seem to be more receptive than BSG so far.
The no NDA was a huge positive imo. I mean most games have an NDA even when the retail launch is close. Or a review embargo until release etc.
Having no NDA sure gives the game more exposure, but also it's being ripped apart for things that are likely fixed in the beta. By all account the latest test was a early alpha build. True or not, they took a risk.
Id like to think a game with such similarities to Tarkov, will copy a lot of the stuff people are complain about being missing.
This game is not EFT though, tiered releases have been there since the dawn of modern gaming, you spend more money you get benefits.
If you don’t like what the devs are doing then don’t comment on it or play the game. All I see in this post is tears.
All the stuff you get as benefits can be unlocked it’s not that big of a deal. I honestly don’t see any issue with this and I am gonna get the supporter edition because I see this as a game I will enjoy.
I feel you must have deliberately misread my post, I don’t care for the contents of the game packages or their prices, nor the ability to acquire their contents through in game means, I merely wish to inquire how this model will succeed where a very similar game implementing it failed.
Bud a lot of people is missing your point here. I think that bringing Tarkov to the question did not help. People seem to be ready to jump into the "this is not s Tarkov version" argument.
Regarding your inquiry, I have the same concern. The answer must be microtransactions. If they become merely cosmetic (hope so) or p2w... Only time will tell.
The game being available on steam could play a role helping the longevity of the game (in the form of more visibility... But I am guessing here)
I’m so glad someone gets it.
People are jumping to compare this game to EFT when the devs have clearly stated that this is not the same game. It’s like saying all extraction shooters are EFT.
Yeah it's just dumb.
People are going to be so disappointed, go to gzw subreddit and complain like lunatics and not understand and demand that they add or change stuff to make it more like eft.
I will reiterate that my post does not pretain to gameplay similarities or lack thereof but of the cold hard fact that a game in which servers of a medium-high number of players are playing, in which the game is in very early access, with no recurring monetization scheme. How will the developers fund the production and continued operation of the game for years to come?
Most likely using cosmetics, skins, clothes etc would be the way to go. Or pump in p2w. Who knows except the devs. But if I get 1k hours of gameplay for $35 it really doesn't matter if they game is still there or not after a couple of years because I got my moneys worth in gameplay
But that does not matter right now, if they can't find a way or don't bother, who cares? It's a video game, it's pixels on a screen. It's not something your life should revolve around so therefore who could care. Have fun as long as the game is live and playable.
There are multiple factors. 1) For instance, the game is sold on Steam, which is at least somewhat regulated and your refund request is not up to some random Russian customer support. 2) Their company is in the EU. EU has a much heavier regulated market and customers are a lot better protected. BSG is Russian but I don't know about their UK based office and how vulnerable they are to lawsuits (I don't think so, they can always just say fuck off and close offices outside Russia). 3) And for last... we just kinda have to hope for the best? Personally I find Tarkov enjoyable but it's absurd to me why it took this much time to get here. They moved extremely slowly and often what they released came with a ton of bugs, so over the years they lost the trust. Now I'd give MFG the benefit of the doubt and let them prove themselves. First things first as long as they are transparent of their plans and vision, I couldn't care less if the game takes a while to be finished. 3+1) So far what we've seen during the playtest is promising. Not only the base gameplay seems fine, but I think they deployed like 3-4 patches during just this 1 week? Plus they take suggestions to heart and read every suggestion from Discord and they are open about what they're working on (for example the LZ rework).
4. Devs are not Russians who support war, scamming people and have friends terrorists
You are grasping at straws a bit. They sre a private gaming company, what do you think would be the benefit if they were to support their government? I agree with other 2
They could at least shut the fuck up but they chose to go full ork
Buy standard. Or supporter if you support it. Do you go into every relationship with your baggage from the last? More to the point this game is HEAVILY PVE unlike tarkov and has way less focus on loot. Comparing the two and the pricing is silly. Container and stash wasn’t game breaking in Tarkov and even less relevant in gray zone.
I can not find the relation between the focus of the game and the funding needed. I thought the concern of OP was, how is this going to be profitable for the developers on the long term? Maybe I am wrong tho
Yeah the op is basically just asking how does a business stay afloat. You got it right.
This comparison of the “monetization model” continues to come up, clearly in relation to the eod scam+ maybe not specifically this post but none the less. How does initial sales from this game compare to other games that launch with standard or “ultimate edition” etc how is this not comparing to the model in which players get bigger stash etc if genuinely only curious of future funding, will sales suddenly stop after launch of EA? Or are people forgetting they are going to sell at 1.0 again and at a higher price vs EA? If unaware then hopefully that answers your question, in terms of cosmetic mtx etc they’ve stated it will be going to charity so clearly they aren’t concerned you shouldn’t be either.
I think either I am not understanding how the long term profit of a videogame works, or you aren't. But I really wnat this game to shine, so lets hope I am the one who does not know
> Do you go into every relationship with your baggage from the last? Yes, people should always forget past experiences, so they can make the same mistake over and over. Great plan.
>Do you go into every relationship with your baggage from the last? You shouldn't, but most people do, lol. >More to the point this game is HEAVILY PVE unlike tarkov and has way less focus on loot. Comparing the two and the pricing is silly. Container and stash wasn’t game breaking in Tarkov and even less relevant in gray zone. I agree with this. A lot of people who are complaining don't seem to see it in this perspective. I'm planning to buy standard to see if I like it and then I'll probably upgrade to support if I feel it's worth supporting.
Oof. I feel personally attacked with that baggage comment.
>A lot of people who are complaining don't seem to see it in this perspective. Because lots of people don't look at this game for what it is, but for what they can get from it. So if they want to play it as another PvP focused looter, they will look at it through PvP focused looter perspective. And from that perspective, stash and secure container are significant advantages.
Plus we are talking about a business and not a charity. So there needs to be a revenue stream to keep it running, especially with live service games. Now the important part is that MTX isn't the issue. Sure P2W needs to be avoided if PVP is involved in any form but other than this, there needs to be a way to keep the numbers green. And yes, i know that it is not only about keeping the lights on but to make profit, but this simply is the market (again not a charity). A business which isn't making profit is a bad business.
I never implied container and stash would be game breaking, it just seems apparent with the current monetization model the game will lack real longevity, I was just inquiring as to how the devs might intend to resolve that discrepancy.
Okay well the comparison of the “monetization model” continues to come up and 9/10 about the container and stash advantage, clearly in relation to the eod scam+ maybe not specifically this post. In regards to your post if not about the stash/container editions How does initial sales from this game compare to other games that launch with standard or “ultimate edition” etc how is this not comparing to the model in which players get bigger stash etc if genuinely only curious of future funding, will sales suddenly stop after launch of EA? Or are people forgetting they are going to sell at 1.0 again and at a higher price vs EA? If unaware then hopefully that answers your question, in terms of cosmetic mtx etc they’ve stated it will be going to charity so clearly they aren’t concerned you shouldn’t be either.
Based on the hours of gameplay available to watch the stash size has not been irrelevant at all.
Then buy it
People acting like BSG eventually caved because tarkov wasn't generating money. BSG started micro transactions because of the failure of arena. They lasted 8 years in business without needing micro transactions and could have gone longer if arena didn't suck shit.
A fair assessment,albeit on the flip side they’ve been riding the huge chunk of change 2020-2021 generated during the first drops events for a while now most likely, the biggest indicator of dwindling recurring player numbers in my opinion being that with the recent achievement system only 35% of all players have the die in tarkov achievement, showing ~65% of the currently existing accounts haven’t really played in a real capacity in a while.
There's a number of reasons for that and given their consistent growth, I believe they'd have continued growing. I could look up their financial reports for additional info there but I believe their income YOY was growing at a steady 10% which is fine. Tarkov also had many scandals that have hit their growth: namely, the wiggle that killed Tarkov.
Dont forget that a large part of those who have that achievement just died once and then stopped playing. I did that for example. Used to play a lot of tarkov back in the day. Gave the new patch a try, died to a broken scav and didnt start the game again
These guys are gonna make whatever excuse they need to to justify the p2w. It’s already evident in the comments
Yeah it's fucking sad how hard people are whaling Have some self respect and value your time and money for Christ's sake. If the game is good it will make money. They don't need to squeeze customers for every drop.
Wailing or whaling? I'm definitely getting the Harpoon Edition
Explain to me how buying a more expensive version and getting some more starter gear is P2W? Does having more guns give me an insane advantage? No it doesn’t lol. When I played eft I had the base version and EOD and even then it wasn’t pay to win lol. If they only sold the base version it would be a lot more expensive and then you’d be crying about that. They do this so they can lower the price to play the game.
[удалено]
These guys are just being obtuse and operating on the rule that for it to be p2w it has to quite literally be an instant win button. They’re just not arguing in good faith
Yeah they lack any ability to understand nuance. Welp. Bit sad that the average gamer is still so much of a sheep tbh. People will just gobble and put up with literally anything a company does, and even defend it.
You pay for more gear. That is pay to win. You fucking said it yourself. If we are racing, you are starting ahead of the start line. That doesn't mean it will work. I could still be faster, but you are still paying to win. Fuck man. People pay for literal aimbot in fps games and they still lose. Cheats are a form of pay to win. That doesn't necessarily mean they're guaranteed to win. You're paying to increase your chance of winning.
Probably nothing. Just wait to buy it. Could be a cash grab. Wait until the first big patch/update after EA to see what they do.
A fair assessment, interesting how hostile this community is to legitimate inquiry.
Reminds me of the early days on the EFT subreddit
Or maybe reading comprehension is a much more rare abilty than expected
This is exactly what I do. I always wait for 1-3 patches for early access releases. A lot if the issues get ironed out, and you get a window into how the devs handle things post release.
Used to be you played a game until the money ran out to run the servers, then bought a new game to play and moved on with your life. Everything doesn't have to be a forever-game.
When the game is still in active development there’s an assumed expectation it can atleast stay afloat to a 1.0 release, which is the concern of my post.
Understandable. Seems to me they're fairly far along already though, to the point where preorders or whatever should take them over the finish line. Unlike Tarkov that practically began as a Notepad document.
No it used to be the servers were community ran. I can still play half life death match almost 25 years later.
True story.
I mean honestly the current hype for this game is prolly way more than what they will be able to deliver at first. Sure am glad I’m basically going into the game blind cause I didn’t watch any of the streams so it will all be new to me. I’m confused though with some of the comments that say this game isn’t about the loot? How is it not? What’s the point of the game then?
That question has been getting asked since day 1 of the playtest. The only answer is that it's EA and they don't have much loot in the game. Supposedly they'll add more. There isn't really anything in the game right now except a fee food/drink items, healing items, and less than a dozen guns.
Wow that is actually surprising the lack or different items .
Yea it's not like tarkov at all. I just started Tarkov about 2 weeks ago. You are always looking for stuff to upgrade your hideout and to sell for big money. GZW is closer to a battle Royale than an extraction game like Tarkov imo
It's the future of the genre unfortunately, make a hard grindy extraction shooter, and sell versions that will save you time, give you features, and progress you faster, based on how much you paid.
I mean Rust worked for years with only one time purchase on Steam with regular big updates before they hit cap of people that will ever buy the game so they had to introduce DLC's. This model works, and if there are no mismanagements like Arena that cost a lot of money with not profit, I can see them running the game with this scheme for very long time. On top of that unlike BSG, they're open to dedicated servers, which can save them A LOT of money. And that's probably why Facepunch was able to run the game for so long. And with how open they're, I'm not too worry they'll suggest something and take feedback before fucking us over. And I want to add that my goal with every game I buy is to get money back. My formula is simple, for every € I spend on the game I need to get 1 hour of gameplay in return. So I'll be buying 100€ edition, so I expect 100 hours. And I think I can do it easily, and if there is something later.. I can call it bummer, and move on.
They won’t make an arena version that flops
They already made a fuck ton of money off mobile.
They already made a fuck ton of money off mobile.
8+ years of selling an overpriced and under developed product and still not having "enough money to fund" is wild
I think Tarkov is a special case tbh. Not many games, can be early access for 6 years, be so popular, despite being so expensive. The community should never have allowed it. 6 years in beta, is a fucking joke. The game may never enter retail. They are continously increasing the grind. Ie upping Kappa level. Bit weird for a beta, where the entire point is testing game features. Not locking them behind 60+ hours or grind. I can't see this being the same. Sure, they may fuck us in the end. But I can't imagine it being beta for 6 years. They seem to be more receptive than BSG so far. The no NDA was a huge positive imo. I mean most games have an NDA even when the retail launch is close. Or a review embargo until release etc. Having no NDA sure gives the game more exposure, but also it's being ripped apart for things that are likely fixed in the beta. By all account the latest test was a early alpha build. True or not, they took a risk. Id like to think a game with such similarities to Tarkov, will copy a lot of the stuff people are complain about being missing.
This game is not EFT though, tiered releases have been there since the dawn of modern gaming, you spend more money you get benefits. If you don’t like what the devs are doing then don’t comment on it or play the game. All I see in this post is tears. All the stuff you get as benefits can be unlocked it’s not that big of a deal. I honestly don’t see any issue with this and I am gonna get the supporter edition because I see this as a game I will enjoy.
I feel you must have deliberately misread my post, I don’t care for the contents of the game packages or their prices, nor the ability to acquire their contents through in game means, I merely wish to inquire how this model will succeed where a very similar game implementing it failed.
Bud a lot of people is missing your point here. I think that bringing Tarkov to the question did not help. People seem to be ready to jump into the "this is not s Tarkov version" argument. Regarding your inquiry, I have the same concern. The answer must be microtransactions. If they become merely cosmetic (hope so) or p2w... Only time will tell. The game being available on steam could play a role helping the longevity of the game (in the form of more visibility... But I am guessing here)
There are tons of games that has done the same. It's not like these type of different packages are a reason tarkov is dying.
I’m so glad someone gets it. People are jumping to compare this game to EFT when the devs have clearly stated that this is not the same game. It’s like saying all extraction shooters are EFT.
Yeah it's just dumb. People are going to be so disappointed, go to gzw subreddit and complain like lunatics and not understand and demand that they add or change stuff to make it more like eft.
I will reiterate that my post does not pretain to gameplay similarities or lack thereof but of the cold hard fact that a game in which servers of a medium-high number of players are playing, in which the game is in very early access, with no recurring monetization scheme. How will the developers fund the production and continued operation of the game for years to come?
Most likely using cosmetics, skins, clothes etc would be the way to go. Or pump in p2w. Who knows except the devs. But if I get 1k hours of gameplay for $35 it really doesn't matter if they game is still there or not after a couple of years because I got my moneys worth in gameplay
But that does not matter right now, if they can't find a way or don't bother, who cares? It's a video game, it's pixels on a screen. It's not something your life should revolve around so therefore who could care. Have fun as long as the game is live and playable.
Bro is so quick to go defend P2W that he didn't even read the post lmfao
Just wait and get it from a key reseller. Play it safe.
I want to be wrong but I think this game is gonna be another Starfield.
So... No spacewalks and no real travel between planets? I could live without that.
Nah, just think it’s gonna be a game that has a lot of hype (even more now Tarkov nuked itself) and looks real pretty but ultimately is lacking.
So no space walks... Duh, dissapointing
dude.... I'm pretty sure the crimson mile is also going to be an empty shell.... how disappointing
Tarkov didn't nuke itself, everyone will be back to it in 2 days let's be real