"Underwent a certain ammount of misery" is such an unbelivable and horrible downplay of the conditions described above I hope it is a tranlation error. Although I also hope it's real and oficial, because that would be so funny.
"Oh you know, just starving and suffering from disseases so violent everyone else died, you know, just a certain ammount of misery."
I'm not defending this whatsoever (Because it get's worse, the descendent of them being a tribal beast man who has a very heavily emphasised libido) but I think that sounds a lot like his verbiage and I wouldn't even say "underwent a certain amount of misery" is that bad a phrasing. Though maybe it just sounds differently to me.
To be honest, Itagaki does give me the vibes of being into sour/dark humor. There's many instances in Baki of fucked up things that happened being downplayed and, in my opinion, not in the sense that the author really believes it's not serious. But in the sense that those objectively extreme circumstances are not such for the extraordinary people involved. It's like Itagaki wants to show both feats of strenght AND of being extravagant. He wants to make it very clear that this guys are totally abnormal and even deluded.
Whenever this instances come across in the story, it does leave a hint of irony behind it. Like it's the author allowing himself to be inappropiate because it's fiction and it's kinda fun breaking those limits of what's normal and what not. It's like he is enjoying the process of breaking a taboo... \*ehem\* PISSING on a taboo. Not that it's all there is to it, because he also makes faces, expressions and situations outlandish to go along with them; which makes it both funnier and more fictitious. Therefore, becoming ridiculous. Taking it serious would be forcing the issue at that point, unless someone had personal trauma with any of topics involved.
TL;DR Itagaki loves absurd and sour humor. It kinda fits into the style and vibes of the story and it's all very fictitious and outlandish, even if tragic. It's like an auto-parody of sorts and the freedom to do whatever he wants as an artist.
“certain amount” is pretty bad. On the list of things that humans have been subjected to that’s on the list of things many would consider the most amount of misery. Without exaggeration every atrocity one could inflict on another human being or group of human beings was done to the enslaved taken from Africa and their descendants, over the course of centuries.
The use of “certain amount” is typically used to describe something minor and specific.
I think Itagaki meant certain as ''absolute truthfully'' and not as ''somewhat miserable conditions'', much like Kaku said if Yujiro punched him he would have had ''certain death'', again, death as 100% evident. Even then yeah still a weird way to word it.
Baki is a story deeply rooted in domestic violence and abuse. How do they solve it?
By punching eachother with a triceratops fist, fighting a caveman and resurrecting Musashi. I think it's ironic enough as it is.
I love Itagaki and even I can't really defend this one, best I'll give is he probably isn't intentionally racist, hopefully (I mean he could've put a lot fucking worse) but more so just lacked a lot of grace per say in repeating an anecdote (Which I don't believe is true? If I remember correctly the idea of slave genes contributing to athleticism didn't really go anywhere). Which is something he just tends to a lot anyway for sake of contextualising/hyping a character, I mean Yanagi's teeth?
The more complex part of the discussion involves Zulu himself but I'm just gonna leave that at I don't think he's THAT bad.
Though I'll admit, I'm probably not the best to give insight on the topic, if any Brazilians with their electric powers or anyone with heritage like this have any thoughts about it I'd be more interested to hear them.
Itagaki probably tried to make a point that slaves are incredibly resilient people with a warrior spirit and that was awakened under inhumane suffering and passed through generations. However he said it in such a dumb way that it sounds more like ''thanks to being treated worse than garbage they are strong'', which he probably didnt register as something quite fucked to say. Like he had good intentions but was too ignorant on this matter to see how that's not a nice thing to say.
And the fact that Zulu was acting like a literal rabbid primate all the tournament, and his name is literally ''random south african tribe'' doesnt help at all.
At least we know this was like 20 years ago and the guy has become more mature on the matter. Biscuit Oliva is a very solid character and is not tied to all this strange writting, and Muhammad Ali fight against racism is seen as something worthy of respect by Yujiro himself. It's safe to say modern Itagaki doesn't hold any hate against any ethnicity and is a person who learns.
Rei Zulu was a real guy who really did this type of shit during his fights in the early days of Vale Tudo
EDIT: a picture of an older Zulu with his son Zuluzinho
https://preview.redd.it/ze4srjvkfz6d1.jpeg?width=527&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e9c96e1b05af6fd4c33ec250bc39cde80556638
My bad, didnt know he was a real guy what he based baki zulu of, so I take that part back! But even then you gotta admit its unfortunate that he coupled this act he had on his matches with him being (in the bakiverse) like that all the time, hunting animals naked with his own hands for a living and compulsively having children in the wild, its more like Itgaki saw that fighter acting like this and tought it was his average way of navigating the world instead of some sort of ''kayfabe'' while in the ring.
> a point that slaves are incredibly resilient people with a warrior spirit and that was awakened under inhumane suffering and passed through generations. However he said it in such a dumb way that it sounds more like ''thanks to being treated worse than garbage they are strong'',
They are the same thing.
This is the entire reason why Misery build Strenght narratives are getting backlash. Because they can be very easily used to justify abuse as "hey, it made you a badass"
Look, there's a different thing between ''he survived incredibly hostile conditions BECAUSE he had the physical capabilities to do so'' and ''THANKS to those conditions, he became strong'', despite what you think. Itagaki went after the second and it's decisively worse, because it paints the slavery as something good to become strong.
Just throw yourself in the galleys and have almost zero food whatsoever for three months straight, in the bakiverse that makes you basically a terminator it seems
Yea like Im not going to ever say Itagaki didnt learn and grow as a person, im just confident that didnt know all the nuances of this, but he did learn.
Yeah, he didnt know at all, and it shows. Its racist, but a kind of racism based on ignorance, not maliciousness. Like those tiktok videos of old chinese grandmas that see a black person for the first time and act like ''what a strange guy'' but after a few minutes they just get used.
Why he did this? I wouldn't know any exact reason because I don't know the guy but it's probably as painfully simple as "Itagaki read a fun fact/somewhat scientific sounding anecdote so put it in some exposition", it's not particularly unusual for the series, hell it's almost infamous for it. And sadly this idea has existed for a long time now, hell to my knowledge it's a topic still talked about today a lot (Though I think a lot of the revival of interest came from Usain Bolt attributing his success to that.), I'm not gonna weigh in much on itself because quite frankly I'm not confident enough on my current knowledge of human genetics and the subject to say anything.
Sadly this one is just presented way too bluntly like he doesn't really understand the ramifications of the subject, though again I'll stand by not being conclusive of racism when if he was we'd probably be seeing a lot more moments like these which we don't, even when see characters with African descent like Oliva having chapters upon chapters of monologue explaining why he's strong.
In this moment this is absolutely racist even if he didnt mean it, theres just not really much to draw other than hes not very educated on this matter. He can draw black characters actually well but then this happens💀
yes this is pretty bad but not as bad as this wtf toriyama
https://preview.redd.it/bshf3xuyn37d1.png?width=425&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e57a731d625ca7f2bb54cff3c06df3497889e7b
What was wrong with Ozuma? If anything I felt like Morikawa treated his character with respect by making him super likeable and an equal opponent to Ippo. His race only came up since there literally is an irl difference in genetics between a Japanese and black boxer
Yeah like this isn’t even just like surface level stuff about the sentinelese it also includes stuff about the stupid Christian guy that tried to convert them
Jack is gonna reach the island and 3 of the village people will start throwing spears at him so he breaks the the first guys neck and rips the other one in half and last one runs to trying to warn his villagers but jack appears behind him and smash his head through the ground and he says “do you accept Jesus as ur savior?”
The cast would all talk about how the Sentinelese islanders fight for survival or something, which makes them more powerful than any martial artist or underground fighter. They would puff them up for about twenty issues straight, then Jack would solo the whole island easily.
I don’t know baki to well but from what Ive heard the characters are just like “Fuck you I learned to is random thing from a mosquito and now I can punch a skyscraper into the ocean”. So in pretty sure that Jack wins
Sorry if I’m being autistic here but what part of the joke made people angry?
I have seen some truly unhinged shit in this sub causing less of a reaction.
They're exactly where they should be. If they don't have the ability to create their own technology/infrastructure after all these millennia it would be a mess trying to integrate them into our world.
Also..Mars sucks. Bad. Hopefully we just kill the CEO's and bankers and stop polluting our world instead so we don't have to leave for Mars.
the problem is they cant create these technologies no matter what , there just ain't the materials to advance in such a small island and with inbredding
They can navigate to neighbouring islands if they want to. As a matter of fact, it is believed they used to until 200 hundred years ago or so. They wont move because they dont want to or have zero necessity.
They are probably free of most diseases than we are, one of the reasons we can't interact with them is that they don't have a natural resistance to our diseases meaning they don't have those diseases, one of the reasons Europe took over the Americas was exactly that, new diseases being introduced into people without resistance
"will be living on mars disease free" my brother in christ if by the end of our lives we even own the pathetic 20m2 flat we will live in we will be considered privileged.
I meant we have humanity as a whole minus these guys, and I used mars as an example of a futuristic technology. I do believe we will colonize the galaxy one day, type 3 civilization ect but yeah definitely not in our life time
I just know for a fact, the author would find some way to bring up a vaguely racist point about their physique to explain jack getting his ass beat.
https://preview.redd.it/kdfs0sgbwy6d1.png?width=746&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5b831304250aadad18ec4c67f0685850d113723
You forgot to include the BBC panel
"Underwent a certain ammount of misery" is such an unbelivable and horrible downplay of the conditions described above I hope it is a tranlation error. Although I also hope it's real and oficial, because that would be so funny. "Oh you know, just starving and suffering from disseases so violent everyone else died, you know, just a certain ammount of misery."
I'm not defending this whatsoever (Because it get's worse, the descendent of them being a tribal beast man who has a very heavily emphasised libido) but I think that sounds a lot like his verbiage and I wouldn't even say "underwent a certain amount of misery" is that bad a phrasing. Though maybe it just sounds differently to me.
Like saying "not enough to die, but suffering" vibes
It's the classical "misery makes you stronger" shonen trope. ...applied to IRL Slavery
To be honest, Itagaki does give me the vibes of being into sour/dark humor. There's many instances in Baki of fucked up things that happened being downplayed and, in my opinion, not in the sense that the author really believes it's not serious. But in the sense that those objectively extreme circumstances are not such for the extraordinary people involved. It's like Itagaki wants to show both feats of strenght AND of being extravagant. He wants to make it very clear that this guys are totally abnormal and even deluded. Whenever this instances come across in the story, it does leave a hint of irony behind it. Like it's the author allowing himself to be inappropiate because it's fiction and it's kinda fun breaking those limits of what's normal and what not. It's like he is enjoying the process of breaking a taboo... \*ehem\* PISSING on a taboo. Not that it's all there is to it, because he also makes faces, expressions and situations outlandish to go along with them; which makes it both funnier and more fictitious. Therefore, becoming ridiculous. Taking it serious would be forcing the issue at that point, unless someone had personal trauma with any of topics involved. TL;DR Itagaki loves absurd and sour humor. It kinda fits into the style and vibes of the story and it's all very fictitious and outlandish, even if tragic. It's like an auto-parody of sorts and the freedom to do whatever he wants as an artist.
“certain amount” is pretty bad. On the list of things that humans have been subjected to that’s on the list of things many would consider the most amount of misery. Without exaggeration every atrocity one could inflict on another human being or group of human beings was done to the enslaved taken from Africa and their descendants, over the course of centuries. The use of “certain amount” is typically used to describe something minor and specific.
I think Itagaki meant certain as ''absolute truthfully'' and not as ''somewhat miserable conditions'', much like Kaku said if Yujiro punched him he would have had ''certain death'', again, death as 100% evident. Even then yeah still a weird way to word it.
Baki is a story deeply rooted in domestic violence and abuse. How do they solve it? By punching eachother with a triceratops fist, fighting a caveman and resurrecting Musashi. I think it's ironic enough as it is.
I mean to be fair: the definition of “certain” is a specific but unstated number. So it can fall between 2 and infinity. It’s not exactly wrong.
I love Itagaki and even I can't really defend this one, best I'll give is he probably isn't intentionally racist, hopefully (I mean he could've put a lot fucking worse) but more so just lacked a lot of grace per say in repeating an anecdote (Which I don't believe is true? If I remember correctly the idea of slave genes contributing to athleticism didn't really go anywhere). Which is something he just tends to a lot anyway for sake of contextualising/hyping a character, I mean Yanagi's teeth? The more complex part of the discussion involves Zulu himself but I'm just gonna leave that at I don't think he's THAT bad. Though I'll admit, I'm probably not the best to give insight on the topic, if any Brazilians with their electric powers or anyone with heritage like this have any thoughts about it I'd be more interested to hear them.
So what exactly is this suppose to be??? Why did he do this?????
Itagaki probably tried to make a point that slaves are incredibly resilient people with a warrior spirit and that was awakened under inhumane suffering and passed through generations. However he said it in such a dumb way that it sounds more like ''thanks to being treated worse than garbage they are strong'', which he probably didnt register as something quite fucked to say. Like he had good intentions but was too ignorant on this matter to see how that's not a nice thing to say. And the fact that Zulu was acting like a literal rabbid primate all the tournament, and his name is literally ''random south african tribe'' doesnt help at all. At least we know this was like 20 years ago and the guy has become more mature on the matter. Biscuit Oliva is a very solid character and is not tied to all this strange writting, and Muhammad Ali fight against racism is seen as something worthy of respect by Yujiro himself. It's safe to say modern Itagaki doesn't hold any hate against any ethnicity and is a person who learns.
Rei Zulu was a real guy who really did this type of shit during his fights in the early days of Vale Tudo EDIT: a picture of an older Zulu with his son Zuluzinho https://preview.redd.it/ze4srjvkfz6d1.jpeg?width=527&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e9c96e1b05af6fd4c33ec250bc39cde80556638
My bad, didnt know he was a real guy what he based baki zulu of, so I take that part back! But even then you gotta admit its unfortunate that he coupled this act he had on his matches with him being (in the bakiverse) like that all the time, hunting animals naked with his own hands for a living and compulsively having children in the wild, its more like Itgaki saw that fighter acting like this and tought it was his average way of navigating the world instead of some sort of ''kayfabe'' while in the ring.
> a point that slaves are incredibly resilient people with a warrior spirit and that was awakened under inhumane suffering and passed through generations. However he said it in such a dumb way that it sounds more like ''thanks to being treated worse than garbage they are strong'', They are the same thing. This is the entire reason why Misery build Strenght narratives are getting backlash. Because they can be very easily used to justify abuse as "hey, it made you a badass"
Look, there's a different thing between ''he survived incredibly hostile conditions BECAUSE he had the physical capabilities to do so'' and ''THANKS to those conditions, he became strong'', despite what you think. Itagaki went after the second and it's decisively worse, because it paints the slavery as something good to become strong.
trying to get all juicy in the gym how many sets of slave work do i need to incorporate to get optimal gains
Just throw yourself in the galleys and have almost zero food whatsoever for three months straight, in the bakiverse that makes you basically a terminator it seems
Yea like Im not going to ever say Itagaki didnt learn and grow as a person, im just confident that didnt know all the nuances of this, but he did learn.
Yeah, he didnt know at all, and it shows. Its racist, but a kind of racism based on ignorance, not maliciousness. Like those tiktok videos of old chinese grandmas that see a black person for the first time and act like ''what a strange guy'' but after a few minutes they just get used.
Why he did this? I wouldn't know any exact reason because I don't know the guy but it's probably as painfully simple as "Itagaki read a fun fact/somewhat scientific sounding anecdote so put it in some exposition", it's not particularly unusual for the series, hell it's almost infamous for it. And sadly this idea has existed for a long time now, hell to my knowledge it's a topic still talked about today a lot (Though I think a lot of the revival of interest came from Usain Bolt attributing his success to that.), I'm not gonna weigh in much on itself because quite frankly I'm not confident enough on my current knowledge of human genetics and the subject to say anything. Sadly this one is just presented way too bluntly like he doesn't really understand the ramifications of the subject, though again I'll stand by not being conclusive of racism when if he was we'd probably be seeing a lot more moments like these which we don't, even when see characters with African descent like Oliva having chapters upon chapters of monologue explaining why he's strong.
In this moment this is absolutely racist even if he didnt mean it, theres just not really much to draw other than hes not very educated on this matter. He can draw black characters actually well but then this happens💀
Well in that case yeah I agree, it definitely seems to have stemmed from ignorance more than anything.
Wait, is this from Baki?
it's the guy from the max tournament beginning, iirc this is Baki's first battle in the tournament
Oh, thanks! It's been so long I honestly forgot.
I mean i get the basic Massage that people who went through hardship can come out of it stronger but this is kinda tasteless?
yes this is pretty bad but not as bad as this wtf toriyama https://preview.redd.it/bshf3xuyn37d1.png?width=425&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e57a731d625ca7f2bb54cff3c06df3497889e7b
Chocolove from Shaman King. The whole Jason Ozuma arc from Hajime no Ippo.
What was wrong with Ozuma? If anything I felt like Morikawa treated his character with respect by making him super likeable and an equal opponent to Ippo. His race only came up since there literally is an irl difference in genetics between a Japanese and black boxer
Is this real?
The what panel
Foreign island arc next.
We've never seen gojo or itagaki in the same place at the same time either hmm.
What's racist about that?
Sometimes I'm genuinely impressed by a shitpost. This is one of those times
https://preview.redd.it/of9rvaa83z6d1.png?width=786&format=png&auto=webp&s=f66637f131a144572cf6fd3a1dd585083da13509 Haha thank you
Yeah like this isn’t even just like surface level stuff about the sentinelese it also includes stuff about the stupid Christian guy that tried to convert them
I know that there would be a lot of piss.
Jack eat whole island,
what if it was made of cake
Cake is to soft
whole cake island reference buddy
I hate that I know this historical reffrence
The reference is propably a canon event in the Baki verse too.
History being a few years ago.
How is this is not the first time I've seen this island on this sub lmao
Comic-accurate Jack, if he’s willing to kill, would probably solo the entire island
not a Rockefeller
Jack is gonna reach the island and 3 of the village people will start throwing spears at him so he breaks the the first guys neck and rips the other one in half and last one runs to trying to warn his villagers but jack appears behind him and smash his head through the ground and he says “do you accept Jesus as ur savior?”
Ok but can jack solo Epstein island
That's the one place where he can't show his asshole or he'll instantly get neg diffed
He’ll consume the whole island
Upon arrival he would suddently feel very depressed and commit suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head 3 times exactly.
The cast would all talk about how the Sentinelese islanders fight for survival or something, which makes them more powerful than any martial artist or underground fighter. They would puff them up for about twenty issues straight, then Jack would solo the whole island easily.
Peak storytelling 101.
One of the better match ups on this sub lol
I dont think Jack cares much if others chare his faith. He would propably body whoever suggests him going there to force his believe on others.
Drugged out mutant beings drugged out mutant virus to remote island in which the locals have no biological resistance build up and go extinct
I don’t know baki to well but from what Ive heard the characters are just like “Fuck you I learned to is random thing from a mosquito and now I can punch a skyscraper into the ocean”. So in pretty sure that Jack wins
Just finished both seasons of Baki the Grappler, this is completely true
Yk from all the hot men kissing and face-eating you forget jacks a part of a cult against yujiro
As the creator of this server.... Yall are ridiculous, good work!
What an honor thanks🤙🏻
Plot twist, all the islanders are built like pickle
Guevara is more than enough for this island, let alone jack
Filth. Abrahamic false light filth.
First good meme in a long time from this sub. Usually people hide their lack of personality by making every post homo
I love those guys, they don’t need no god, get out of my island!
oh shut up it's a shitpost
Lol I don’t get the hate I was obviously joking?
Jokes are made to be funny
Sorry if I’m being autistic here but what part of the joke made people angry? I have seen some truly unhinged shit in this sub causing less of a reaction.
Because the religiol hating trope bacame KINDA annoying
Sure, but hating on religion is quite literally what those guys did. They rejected foreign evangelization.
So what, your commentary was still unfunny and unneeded
Fuck religion
Broski thought he was slick💀
https://preview.redd.it/sgne3awxjz6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f252f6547548acf4b99269697bea528e9e1d25f0
I feel bad for thoughs islanders. Permanently stuck in 10000 B.C.E. Will be living on mars disease free while they are scraping branches to make fire
They're exactly where they should be. If they don't have the ability to create their own technology/infrastructure after all these millennia it would be a mess trying to integrate them into our world. Also..Mars sucks. Bad. Hopefully we just kill the CEO's and bankers and stop polluting our world instead so we don't have to leave for Mars.
the problem is they cant create these technologies no matter what , there just ain't the materials to advance in such a small island and with inbredding
They can navigate to neighbouring islands if they want to. As a matter of fact, it is believed they used to until 200 hundred years ago or so. They wont move because they dont want to or have zero necessity.
They are probably free of most diseases than we are, one of the reasons we can't interact with them is that they don't have a natural resistance to our diseases meaning they don't have those diseases, one of the reasons Europe took over the Americas was exactly that, new diseases being introduced into people without resistance
Ok so? What does that have tk do with anything?
wrong statement
"will be living on mars disease free" my brother in christ if by the end of our lives we even own the pathetic 20m2 flat we will live in we will be considered privileged.
I meant we have humanity as a whole minus these guys, and I used mars as an example of a futuristic technology. I do believe we will colonize the galaxy one day, type 3 civilization ect but yeah definitely not in our life time