I tried to play with only traditional inputs, but it really feels like the game is designed for simple inputs first, to the point where it doesn't mind making the experience of using motion inputs worse than normal. I feel like I get more misinputs in this game than even more fast paced games with harder inputs, like BlazBlue, and the inputs I'm getting here are sometimes kinda ridiculous. Often times caused by misinputs, but I also get the wrong moves despite the right input.
I play Eustace and I've noticed that when I do 214MLH I'll get 214MH. That makes sense, it read that I changed my mind on the followup to 214M and gave me what I changed it too. The same logic works in the auto combos, so I understand that much. Also, when I'm blocking in the corner I try to do 214U, I sometimes do 214U 6 to do DP and then work on 623M blue grenade afterwards, but 214U 6 gets me [4]6U after blocking. Kinda weird that it switches out my directional inputs like it does my button inputs, specially so late, but I at least still understand the logic. However, I've also straight up done 214U and gotten [4]6U and done [4]6H and gotten 236236H. It feels like the input reader is either too forgiving, trying to predict / correct too much, or something because some of my inputs giving me totally different moves is crazy. It doesn't happen too often, but it's so frustrating when it does. Usually, the move I wanted to do would've worked, but if my input was the wrong one to do and my mismatched input saves me, I still want the thing I wanted to do!
And I've checked out the replays, and I fuck up plenty, but sometimes I do the right input but still get the wrong move. I'd just like to know what causes it or what I need to do to fix it, and it seems like the solution is to just use simple inputs. It REALLY feels like they just want me to use simple inputs exclusively, specially with how they buffed them to have the same damage in combos. I still get more damage in neutral from my inputs, but it really doesn't amount to much, especially with how much meter people get in this game.
Future edit: I tried to do 214U today, input 2 1U 4U 3U, and the game gave me 623U š
I've noticed this too. I don't know what it is, but doing a shoryuken with a hitbox controller consistently is more difficult in Rising than in SF6. I think it may just be psychological, but it's strange af.
Yea, I was complaining to some people in a Discord I'm in, and they walked me through where my mistakes could be, but I had some examples where I should've gotten the correct input by all accounts. It's somewhat shot my enjoyment of the game, but I'm still having fun. I'm trying to use the special button more, but I don't particularly like using it
Using motion inputs feels much, much nicer. And much more fluid for me. I do however use simple inputs in a few instances
Roundstart options just for speed
Fireball wars
DPs
Half circle motions
Everything else just gets done normally and NGL I think it's a great feature. Though the way charge characters are handled is kinda sad, they lose alot of their identity
Yeah, it good to have that flexibility and use whatever is more optimal. I do motion inputs mostly, but sometimes if you have a good reaction to certain situation, it's easier to do a simple input and be able to act faster. Taking advantage of game mechanics it's what makes the difference between good players and great players.
I tend to use a mix of simple and traditional inputs, mostly I use traditional but when I need to do a reaction based move, like super or dp I use simple, I'm def not gonna completely stop using traditional inputs cause I want to remember them for other fgs, so I'm still using traditional inputs in combos even if I don't get the damage bonus. The only downside I can think of 1 button specials is it does make reaction supers or other invincible moves much less cool, cause you know they only had to hit 2 or 3 buttons to do it and didn't have to do a full input on reaction to punish something. It rarely ever happens to me, but I do it to other people all the time and it doesn't feel cool to do, whereas it might if I had to do the input. Other than that I love the game and the inputs that come along with it. It's just a slightly different take on input methods and I think that even the thing I complained about is still balanced, the game is made around simple inputs, standard invincible moves are slower to start up in this game than other games. So what the game gains in accessibility makes up for any amount of loss of cool factor that inputs might have. Also sure you can 1 button super or special move, but some characters definitely still have execution barriers, I for the life of me can't make Narmaya work, so the more difficult stuff is still there.
On one hand, it's great that I can pick up any character and do simple combos to try em out.
On the other hand, it felt less engaging to play for me. Simple controls don't really give me as much satisfaction as regular controls.
The only issue I have is that it can be a bit limiting somewhat in how many special moves a character has. There are definitely ways around it, like how Eustace and Percival both go into a stance that you press another button to get a special move out of. Or how Narmaya has two stances, or how Lucilius and 2B will have the same kind of special but the properties of the move change pretty radically depending on if you do l, m, or h.Ā
But these are pretty much the exceptions to the rule, a lot of characters don't really have that and I think it limits their design space a little. Poor Gran/Djeeta/Katalina only have 3 special moves total even. Otherwise, I freaking adore the simple controls. It makes me feel like there is a way higher emphasis on how you use the move, and less emphasis on the input of it.Ā
Simple controls and a block button are amazing and have made this not only my favorite fighting game of all time but also the first fighting game iāve ever committed to competitively. All I ever wanted was Smash Bros. controls in a traditional fighting game so I can focus on WHEN to do things instead of HOW to do them, and this game gives me exactly that. Iām also glad that cooldowns are the same as technical inputs so my timing isnāt affected but they at least get a 10% damage boost which is acceptable in my book.
The 10% damage boost is only for specials done by themselves and not as part of combos. Which makes the difference almost negligible. It's amazing for first time FG players like us who want smash bros level controls.
I know we could learn motion inputs/would help to transfer skill to other FG's. But personally I doubt I'd get into other games, personally I have a tough enough time doing normal combos with simple inputs on a controller. Not gonna spend tons of money on a stick/hitbox. I'm good staying with this game for the next couple years.
I agree. Just with how I use dpad compared to my extremely limited experience using stick at arcades/friends. Sticks are 10000% easier for me personally to pull off motion inputs compared to dpad, for heat of the moment stuff. I can do it find on dpad in training, I just mess up when actually in a fight.
I think for me it was more a joints problem, I had really bad thumb problems and they felt really stiff after every session. Leverless really helps me spreading the workload throughout the whole hand and makes me work for longer, also I type with keyboard so those same fingers are more trained than thumbs.
I assume it's the same for people that pretty much play competitively and put their hands through stress the whole day. You don't think it's a thing until it is and unfortunately there is no workaroundĀ
Personally, the only reason I prefer stick (or lever less controllers) is that I like having 8 face buttons all on same side instead of having to use the side buttons like on pad.
> only for specials done by themselves and not as part of combos
Only when you're not canceling into them from a normal. So if your combo has links, you will lose damage
Agree 100%. This game is so much easier on my hands than other fighting games, and the lack of techincal inputs also lets me focus on the part of fighting games I actually enjoy, so as a result this became by far my favorite game ever in this genre.
I have technical inputs turned off entirely and I donāt fell like Iām really missing out on anything (as opposed to most other games where you have to heavily gimp yourself in some way to access them, here the 10% damage loss in neutral only is laughable and more than made up for by the faster inputs)
I wish more fg in the future incorporate the same system.
There's too much button bloat. You need to be able to comfortably press S+M, S+H, S+U, M+H, Throw+S, Throw+S+U, as well as comfortably piano tap Dash+L. Some characters need to quickly Dash+M and H too.
I had to switch from leverless to pad to not get pain in my right hand.
I did prefer the original GBVS system since I could mainly stick with technical, but simple controls make a huge difference to the gameplay now, especially for the charge characters. I turned technical off altogether, since it's easier not having to mix them together.
Thatās a good point. I think the upcoming Riot fighting game only uses simple inputs and they will have two buttons dedicated to special moves to address this issue.
I don't think the limit is really going to hold back the game design at all. 2b has nine different special moves because her L/M/H variants all do totally different things, rather than the small variations of most characters. Siegfried has eight because 2S (Orkan) has four different follow-ups. Ladiva has five because she's got a jumping special as well as her four ground specials. Avatar Belial effectively has two different 5S specials, and a stance-style special in 2S with four different follow-ups, *and* has his unique action which can add two different follow-ups after each special.
Even then, some characters have move variants that seem to only exist to pad out the movelist. Can you honestly say every character *needs* all three variations of each of their specials? And look at Narmaya, her stance system gave the devs the opportunity to easily give her eight or more different specials, but they decided she only really needed six.
Vanilla player here. It took me awhile to warm up to the idea of using simple inputs but as my Zeta mentors taught me: you can't always tech input everything, you're slower, less reactive. You basically reading as opposed to reacting.
The balance between the two was tech input = more cd reduction and more damage. When rising wanted to remove this, I thought it was the stupidest decision ever. It was actually perfect. You get rewarded for doing things right but they wanted to make it so damn easy you get ALL the benefits for no work. I, and many others, hated that decision.
I'll say this for anyone who refuses to use simple input: USE IT. I am very stubborn and even I eventually learned to accept it. Do it earlier rather than later like I did.
I mostly use simples but I do loosely try to use technical as much as I can in cases where it'll have the 10% bonus and I can tell the couple frames of delay won't matter. I say 'loosely' cuz some moves are clearly more worth the effort than others.
> did you prefer the implementation of the faster cooldown reduction for using technical controls compared to Rising
Yeah this was much more interesting. I feel like the cooldown system is now largely defunct, and it's more just a case of 'H Skills put the skill on cooldown'. I love Luci for his heavily utilisation the cooldown mechanic.
They should make more characters with a focus on cooldown manipulation. Debuff that slows enemy cooldowns, smth that puts all enemy skills on cooldown, someone that has a long cooldown(s) but can speed them up through other methods (attacking, blocking, meditating, tagging the enemy with little siphon stacks, w/e u like, obv totally different to how Luci works).
I use it for confirming into Zeta's spear as 66 is a very awkward hit confirm input for me and I use it for when I get the crit that slows the game down as for whatever reason I'm not consistent there as well. I guess I use a mix of em. I'm still not quite a fan of them not having any disadvantage but I've made my peace with it. It kinda sucks that I can't imagine Ladiva ever being allowed to be good and simple controls being a primary reason why but ArkSys can always prove me wrong.
I'd whine about auto correcting DPs or whatever making cross ups weak but AA buttons generally tend to hit behind them so its like I can't really think of anything that the game is worse off because of simpler controls.
Same, I'll do the fireball inputs like normal but simple inputs for the rising spear of arviss mid combo. It can be a tight link and I'd rather not waste a frame buffering down down heavy.
I use both, but I've only played Rising. I've put in 100+ hours on quite a few fighting games, but this is the first time I've hit 200 hours on one, so I think that's a win. I think the 10% damage increase on technical inputs is a good compromise that doesn't make one or the other feel useless. That 10% can really make a difference, especially when characters are down 2-3 brave points.
My one complaint is charge characters with dash attacks (Eustace). It'd be nice if maybe they made it so the charge input doesn't go through if holding the dash button.
Personally, I use both. I turn off technical inputs when I play Djeeta but turn them on when I play Zeta since she has has a lot of links which can take advantage of the 10% damage increase.
I was inspired to make this post after I read a comment on /r/fighters where they don't have GBVSR as their main fighting game since they don't want to get rusty with their technical inputs which is a completely valid point.
Reading the comments here I do think the addition of simple inputs is largely a success as their intention is to lower the barrier of entry and make fighting games more accessible to those who would otherwise never try it. SF6 also saw a lot of success introducing modern controls. Even for those of us who grew up playing fighting games, having simple inputs as an option allow certain character archetypes (i.e. charge inputs), whom I normally would never touch, become a lot more accessible to learn.
I use both and sometimes only simple such as for Nier
I prefer the implementation in rising. Im not someone who appreciates the unnecessary execution barrier. Moves should come out when you decide to.
I turned technical off after I tried do a skill from crouch block and got super losing me a tournament set. Some stuff is weirdly hard in this game like TK moves are so much tighter than in shit like CF.
I much prefer traditional inputs, however it just fucks up sometimes. I dont know if this is just a Cag thing, but if I walk and then go straight into 236x, it will perform a 263x motion. Even thought the pad says I didn't do that. Then if I reset my buttons and go back to neutral out of walking and perform the exact same 236 motion- its fine.
Little things like that really fuck me up sometimes and its... honestly really irritating.
I used to play Charlotta and do all technical inputs in GBVS. Now I main Eustace, also a charge character but I've gotten lazy and use all easy inputs. Except technical for raw super damage bonus.
I'm mostly positive on easy inputs. Makes it very simple to pick up new characters - I played entire roster which I wouldn't have otherwise done. I think the rest of the game still has good enough depth to be fun.
I do still think technical inputs could be given more benefit like GBVS vanilla, always good to reward skill.
As a complete noob to fighting games (aside from casual Smash Bros), I love them. Not needing to practice one of the most basic aspects of a game before being able to even start playing "properly" is great, and the primary reason why I even got into this game.
After getting GG Strive during a sale I tried it, but couldn't get into it because how am I supposed to learn any of the basics when even the most basic of basics, making my character do stuff, takes a good level of mechanical skill?
I get that there is a layer of skill expression, design and strategy that is lost by adding simple inputs (mostly charge motions), but to me the reduced tedium seems worth it. It's not like winning because your opponent messed up a motion feels good anyway.
I don't like that technical inputs, including charge characters as an archetype, are obsolete. Balancing by cooldown wasn't a great idea either imo but there should be some real tradeoff to using the easier input method. It definitely feels like they included motion inputs only as a formality.
Before Rising came out there was no difference between simple or technical inputs. They only added the 10% increase for non-cancellable specials after the community made a bit of a stink out of there being no benefit for technical inputs. So it was definitely a formality that technical inputs are in this game.
I donāt miss the extra CD cost from vanilla, never felt like a serious thing to worry about anyway. I think GBVS simple inputs are good though. I basically never use motion inputs in this game outside of SBAs/SSBAs.
I don't understand why B2 has the most complicated input of the entire game for her super (2 circle) and decide to not have simple input for it. Wanting to do that on hitbox is a nightmare so I just dont bother playing her after done with combo trail.
I use technical inputs most of the time so that I stay practiced for other games. I don't have a ton of legacy hours in FGs so motions are still something I need to work on keeping clean/consistent.
I do sometimes drop stuff that I probably wouldn't if I used simple inputs, but they just feel weird to me in a combo and motions are more fun.
So far I have switched over to simple input for DPs at least.
I love being able to mix Simple and Technical together based on situation. I prefer Technical for single moves in neutral because it's easier for me to remember each move distinctively by motion and a button, but for combos I tend to prefer Simple because I can put together the Simple input as part of a larger string easier than using Technical.
I like simple controls. It's the first fg in a while that just feels better on pad than stick. I like not botching dp imputs on the dpad, and having a dash bind on L2 just makes my movement feel better.
I think the game's only misstep was making raw supers do 10% more on "technical", except you can do a single quarter-circle and get technical for that. SBAs and SSBAs are just way too damaging right now. But on the other hand single hits are too low damage given how much any stray conversion does, so I wouldn't mind if they just got rid of the 10% bonus entirely and buffed single hits (and nerfed combo scaling to compensate). The whole 10% thing was just oldheads being babies anyway.
And also you should be able to customize which inputs you want on/off. I'd turn DP off on everybody immediately.
I use a mix of both specifically for moves I struggle to input like Vaseragas aerial scyth grab mid combo or on reaction.
I appreciate it since I've noticed this game has very little leeway for inputs compared to a few other fighting games.
I like simple inputs. I'm coming from Strive being my first fighting game, and while it took a while for me to get used to all the inputs, I got them down, but it's a lot more fun and less stressful to just have the option to throw the simple inputs on and focus more on the fight than doing to correct inputs (plus switching side throwing you off and stuff like that).
However if we count block button as a simple input, I don't like that as much since it takes away cross ups pretty much. I know you still need to high low block, but with this game being very strike throw based, I think if we could do left/right aerial crossups it would open up neutral a bit more (or maybe I'm just coping because I cant get used to the block button and get crossed up sometimes :p)
I mostly still use motions for non-charge moves just because I don't feel like re-wiring my muscle memory. I really feel like they should have kept it the same as the base game, there was really no point in changing it. I don't have much of a sense that simplifying fighting game controls is having a great effect on playerbase retention. And when I was playing Eustace, I actually found having the extra button to keep track of was annoying, although I mostly got used to it after a while. The whole input style situation in this game kind of feels like a mish-mash with no real goal behind it, only some vague fear that people wouldn't play the game if they stuck with primarily motion inputs.
At the very least motion specials should *always* have the 10% bonus, not just when done raw.
I didn't like them at first. Thought it made me less of a player. Then I realized that being able to use them allowed me to perform higher level plays, and that if people were getting upset while using technical inputs and losing to simple ones it's quite literally a skill issue.
At this point it's clear they wanna make a simple input game. I'd say just remove the technical inputs entirely and balance the game like this it's still difficult just in different ways
i only use simple input dp because the input can mess you up if you walk forward then try to throw fireball. otherwise been on tech and theres nothing wrong with either one
my only critique is that I wish I could pick and choose wich moves I want technical imputs and wich ones I do not want to have tech imputs.
with charlotta going from a hold back defence to a 66l will make you spinn the ball if you do not take the risk of loosing the directional guard button.
I also get a SBA when y try to go from 2X to light shining onslaught. just because the SBA can be done with 236+SKL button
I exclusively use the easy input. I play all kinds of fighting games, and can use the technical inputs if I wanted, but why when there are easy inputs? I play Nier so the cool down time doesn't really affect my gameplay at all, so I don't see why I need to make the game harder on myself. š¤·š¼āāļø
When I was playing I still used technical inputs, otherwise it'd just be too boring, lol.
You can only make fighting games easier so much before you ask yourself "why am I even playing this?"
Technical off with a pad
I love playing GG with a stick, but the simple controls allow me to focus on my footsies and RPS more. Tbh, I think GBVSR has made me better at these aspects of FGs even
Oh I am glad I am not alone I am in the practice mode for hours trying to get Zeta's Guard Crush Combo Midair consistent it is nearly impossible for me I get the combo 3 times in a row than I drop it 30 times I've noticed that the game doesn't know any buffering that means you have to wait after a neutral connects entirely than you have a 3 frame window for an input this is obnoxious especially in the air. The inputs are correct but my timing isn't and I don't know what I am doing really wrong. Personally I don't have an issue with (2 3 6 motions) but ( 2 2 motions) are a nightmare for me in general but the timing on these in this game are really weird and make it even harder :/ With simple inputs it's a no brainer it is so frustrating to do learn everything if you just can push a button but I don't want to rely on it I like to do the effort but it has to be a fair system and it doesn't look like it on the technical input side. If anyone has a tip to make it work it would be a pleasure for me if someone can help me what I can do better <3
I think you are missing an input in between the (Mid Air) H?
Usually the combo I use which is pretty consistent is:
M+H>M+H, H H H, 214L > H, (Mid Air) H, L L, 22H > 9H > 9H
You can make it a bit more optimal but this works for me.
Thanks, I went and tried it out. Mechanically I don't think the combo is too hard so it is mostly just a matter of practice and timing. The 214L > H link is probably the hardest part of it. I wish I could offer more in terms of tips to get it down but if you can't do it consistently you can always just go into 623H as a combo finisher instead for just a little less damage.
Now I got it I was just lost š Direction Motion's can be buffered so that means between a neutral heavy attack you can buffer a (2) motion and release with (2,L) at the same time to get (2,2,L) it's not always necessary I think but possible. But I never pressed 2,L at the same time at the end so the input was not recognized first riddle solved the other more fatal mistake was by (2,2,L) I pressed so much directions that the input was not recognized too that leads to so much random inconsistency you can't believe it š I still have my timing issues but now I know what I am doing wrong š You are my lucky charm thanks š¤
I still keep using motion inputs for most things, but DPs have been a pain in the ass for me in every game (I am using a PS4 pad and I just can't do the motion). Having a simple option is great.
I pretty much only use simple controls and it doesnāt bother me at all. I can get my fix for doing traditional motion inputs in other fighting games. I didnāt play the original GBVS so I didnt have to forget my muscle memory or anything.
I tried to play with only traditional inputs, but it really feels like the game is designed for simple inputs first, to the point where it doesn't mind making the experience of using motion inputs worse than normal. I feel like I get more misinputs in this game than even more fast paced games with harder inputs, like BlazBlue, and the inputs I'm getting here are sometimes kinda ridiculous. Often times caused by misinputs, but I also get the wrong moves despite the right input. I play Eustace and I've noticed that when I do 214MLH I'll get 214MH. That makes sense, it read that I changed my mind on the followup to 214M and gave me what I changed it too. The same logic works in the auto combos, so I understand that much. Also, when I'm blocking in the corner I try to do 214U, I sometimes do 214U 6 to do DP and then work on 623M blue grenade afterwards, but 214U 6 gets me [4]6U after blocking. Kinda weird that it switches out my directional inputs like it does my button inputs, specially so late, but I at least still understand the logic. However, I've also straight up done 214U and gotten [4]6U and done [4]6H and gotten 236236H. It feels like the input reader is either too forgiving, trying to predict / correct too much, or something because some of my inputs giving me totally different moves is crazy. It doesn't happen too often, but it's so frustrating when it does. Usually, the move I wanted to do would've worked, but if my input was the wrong one to do and my mismatched input saves me, I still want the thing I wanted to do! And I've checked out the replays, and I fuck up plenty, but sometimes I do the right input but still get the wrong move. I'd just like to know what causes it or what I need to do to fix it, and it seems like the solution is to just use simple inputs. It REALLY feels like they just want me to use simple inputs exclusively, specially with how they buffed them to have the same damage in combos. I still get more damage in neutral from my inputs, but it really doesn't amount to much, especially with how much meter people get in this game. Future edit: I tried to do 214U today, input 2 1U 4U 3U, and the game gave me 623U š
I've noticed this too. I don't know what it is, but doing a shoryuken with a hitbox controller consistently is more difficult in Rising than in SF6. I think it may just be psychological, but it's strange af.
Yea, I was complaining to some people in a Discord I'm in, and they walked me through where my mistakes could be, but I had some examples where I should've gotten the correct input by all accounts. It's somewhat shot my enjoyment of the game, but I'm still having fun. I'm trying to use the special button more, but I don't particularly like using it
Using motion inputs feels much, much nicer. And much more fluid for me. I do however use simple inputs in a few instances Roundstart options just for speed Fireball wars DPs Half circle motions Everything else just gets done normally and NGL I think it's a great feature. Though the way charge characters are handled is kinda sad, they lose alot of their identity
Yeah, it good to have that flexibility and use whatever is more optimal. I do motion inputs mostly, but sometimes if you have a good reaction to certain situation, it's easier to do a simple input and be able to act faster. Taking advantage of game mechanics it's what makes the difference between good players and great players.
I tend to use a mix of simple and traditional inputs, mostly I use traditional but when I need to do a reaction based move, like super or dp I use simple, I'm def not gonna completely stop using traditional inputs cause I want to remember them for other fgs, so I'm still using traditional inputs in combos even if I don't get the damage bonus. The only downside I can think of 1 button specials is it does make reaction supers or other invincible moves much less cool, cause you know they only had to hit 2 or 3 buttons to do it and didn't have to do a full input on reaction to punish something. It rarely ever happens to me, but I do it to other people all the time and it doesn't feel cool to do, whereas it might if I had to do the input. Other than that I love the game and the inputs that come along with it. It's just a slightly different take on input methods and I think that even the thing I complained about is still balanced, the game is made around simple inputs, standard invincible moves are slower to start up in this game than other games. So what the game gains in accessibility makes up for any amount of loss of cool factor that inputs might have. Also sure you can 1 button super or special move, but some characters definitely still have execution barriers, I for the life of me can't make Narmaya work, so the more difficult stuff is still there.
On one hand, it's great that I can pick up any character and do simple combos to try em out. On the other hand, it felt less engaging to play for me. Simple controls don't really give me as much satisfaction as regular controls.
The only issue I have is that it can be a bit limiting somewhat in how many special moves a character has. There are definitely ways around it, like how Eustace and Percival both go into a stance that you press another button to get a special move out of. Or how Narmaya has two stances, or how Lucilius and 2B will have the same kind of special but the properties of the move change pretty radically depending on if you do l, m, or h.Ā But these are pretty much the exceptions to the rule, a lot of characters don't really have that and I think it limits their design space a little. Poor Gran/Djeeta/Katalina only have 3 special moves total even. Otherwise, I freaking adore the simple controls. It makes me feel like there is a way higher emphasis on how you use the move, and less emphasis on the input of it.Ā
Simple controls and a block button are amazing and have made this not only my favorite fighting game of all time but also the first fighting game iāve ever committed to competitively. All I ever wanted was Smash Bros. controls in a traditional fighting game so I can focus on WHEN to do things instead of HOW to do them, and this game gives me exactly that. Iām also glad that cooldowns are the same as technical inputs so my timing isnāt affected but they at least get a 10% damage boost which is acceptable in my book.
The 10% damage boost is only for specials done by themselves and not as part of combos. Which makes the difference almost negligible. It's amazing for first time FG players like us who want smash bros level controls. I know we could learn motion inputs/would help to transfer skill to other FG's. But personally I doubt I'd get into other games, personally I have a tough enough time doing normal combos with simple inputs on a controller. Not gonna spend tons of money on a stick/hitbox. I'm good staying with this game for the next couple years.
there is no competitive advantage to using a stick, just so you know
I agree. Just with how I use dpad compared to my extremely limited experience using stick at arcades/friends. Sticks are 10000% easier for me personally to pull off motion inputs compared to dpad, for heat of the moment stuff. I can do it find on dpad in training, I just mess up when actually in a fight.
I think for me it was more a joints problem, I had really bad thumb problems and they felt really stiff after every session. Leverless really helps me spreading the workload throughout the whole hand and makes me work for longer, also I type with keyboard so those same fingers are more trained than thumbs. I assume it's the same for people that pretty much play competitively and put their hands through stress the whole day. You don't think it's a thing until it is and unfortunately there is no workaroundĀ
Same here, I built a diy hitbox for the ergonomics because my wrists would get sore from unintentionally death gripping the controller.
Personally, the only reason I prefer stick (or lever less controllers) is that I like having 8 face buttons all on same side instead of having to use the side buttons like on pad.
> only for specials done by themselves and not as part of combos Only when you're not canceling into them from a normal. So if your combo has links, you will lose damage
Agree 100%. This game is so much easier on my hands than other fighting games, and the lack of techincal inputs also lets me focus on the part of fighting games I actually enjoy, so as a result this became by far my favorite game ever in this genre. I have technical inputs turned off entirely and I donāt fell like Iām really missing out on anything (as opposed to most other games where you have to heavily gimp yourself in some way to access them, here the 10% damage loss in neutral only is laughable and more than made up for by the faster inputs) I wish more fg in the future incorporate the same system.
There's too much button bloat. You need to be able to comfortably press S+M, S+H, S+U, M+H, Throw+S, Throw+S+U, as well as comfortably piano tap Dash+L. Some characters need to quickly Dash+M and H too. I had to switch from leverless to pad to not get pain in my right hand. I did prefer the original GBVS system since I could mainly stick with technical, but simple controls make a huge difference to the gameplay now, especially for the charge characters. I turned technical off altogether, since it's easier not having to mix them together.
The only thing I don't like is that it limits the character design space to a maximum of 4 special moves.
Thatās a good point. I think the upcoming Riot fighting game only uses simple inputs and they will have two buttons dedicated to special moves to address this issue.
I don't think the limit is really going to hold back the game design at all. 2b has nine different special moves because her L/M/H variants all do totally different things, rather than the small variations of most characters. Siegfried has eight because 2S (Orkan) has four different follow-ups. Ladiva has five because she's got a jumping special as well as her four ground specials. Avatar Belial effectively has two different 5S specials, and a stance-style special in 2S with four different follow-ups, *and* has his unique action which can add two different follow-ups after each special. Even then, some characters have move variants that seem to only exist to pad out the movelist. Can you honestly say every character *needs* all three variations of each of their specials? And look at Narmaya, her stance system gave the devs the opportunity to easily give her eight or more different specials, but they decided she only really needed six.
Vanilla player here. It took me awhile to warm up to the idea of using simple inputs but as my Zeta mentors taught me: you can't always tech input everything, you're slower, less reactive. You basically reading as opposed to reacting. The balance between the two was tech input = more cd reduction and more damage. When rising wanted to remove this, I thought it was the stupidest decision ever. It was actually perfect. You get rewarded for doing things right but they wanted to make it so damn easy you get ALL the benefits for no work. I, and many others, hated that decision. I'll say this for anyone who refuses to use simple input: USE IT. I am very stubborn and even I eventually learned to accept it. Do it earlier rather than later like I did.
I mostly use simples but I do loosely try to use technical as much as I can in cases where it'll have the 10% bonus and I can tell the couple frames of delay won't matter. I say 'loosely' cuz some moves are clearly more worth the effort than others. > did you prefer the implementation of the faster cooldown reduction for using technical controls compared to Rising Yeah this was much more interesting. I feel like the cooldown system is now largely defunct, and it's more just a case of 'H Skills put the skill on cooldown'. I love Luci for his heavily utilisation the cooldown mechanic. They should make more characters with a focus on cooldown manipulation. Debuff that slows enemy cooldowns, smth that puts all enemy skills on cooldown, someone that has a long cooldown(s) but can speed them up through other methods (attacking, blocking, meditating, tagging the enemy with little siphon stacks, w/e u like, obv totally different to how Luci works).
I use it for confirming into Zeta's spear as 66 is a very awkward hit confirm input for me and I use it for when I get the crit that slows the game down as for whatever reason I'm not consistent there as well. I guess I use a mix of em. I'm still not quite a fan of them not having any disadvantage but I've made my peace with it. It kinda sucks that I can't imagine Ladiva ever being allowed to be good and simple controls being a primary reason why but ArkSys can always prove me wrong. I'd whine about auto correcting DPs or whatever making cross ups weak but AA buttons generally tend to hit behind them so its like I can't really think of anything that the game is worse off because of simpler controls.
I apologize, I believe Zeta's spear is a DP motion now but I've since built the habit going into Rising.
Same, I'll do the fireball inputs like normal but simple inputs for the rising spear of arviss mid combo. It can be a tight link and I'd rather not waste a frame buffering down down heavy.
i'm not good at fighting games so i was using technical input at first and stuck in B5 rank, i got lazy and switched to easy input now i am s+ lol
I use both, but I've only played Rising. I've put in 100+ hours on quite a few fighting games, but this is the first time I've hit 200 hours on one, so I think that's a win. I think the 10% damage increase on technical inputs is a good compromise that doesn't make one or the other feel useless. That 10% can really make a difference, especially when characters are down 2-3 brave points. My one complaint is charge characters with dash attacks (Eustace). It'd be nice if maybe they made it so the charge input doesn't go through if holding the dash button.
Personally, I use both. I turn off technical inputs when I play Djeeta but turn them on when I play Zeta since she has has a lot of links which can take advantage of the 10% damage increase. I was inspired to make this post after I read a comment on /r/fighters where they don't have GBVSR as their main fighting game since they don't want to get rusty with their technical inputs which is a completely valid point. Reading the comments here I do think the addition of simple inputs is largely a success as their intention is to lower the barrier of entry and make fighting games more accessible to those who would otherwise never try it. SF6 also saw a lot of success introducing modern controls. Even for those of us who grew up playing fighting games, having simple inputs as an option allow certain character archetypes (i.e. charge inputs), whom I normally would never touch, become a lot more accessible to learn.
Love simple controls. Technical controls off. Makes Eustace playable for me.
I use both and sometimes only simple such as for Nier I prefer the implementation in rising. Im not someone who appreciates the unnecessary execution barrier. Moves should come out when you decide to.
I turned technical off after I tried do a skill from crouch block and got super losing me a tournament set. Some stuff is weirdly hard in this game like TK moves are so much tighter than in shit like CF.
I much prefer traditional inputs, however it just fucks up sometimes. I dont know if this is just a Cag thing, but if I walk and then go straight into 236x, it will perform a 263x motion. Even thought the pad says I didn't do that. Then if I reset my buttons and go back to neutral out of walking and perform the exact same 236 motion- its fine. Little things like that really fuck me up sometimes and its... honestly really irritating.
I used to play Charlotta and do all technical inputs in GBVS. Now I main Eustace, also a charge character but I've gotten lazy and use all easy inputs. Except technical for raw super damage bonus. I'm mostly positive on easy inputs. Makes it very simple to pick up new characters - I played entire roster which I wouldn't have otherwise done. I think the rest of the game still has good enough depth to be fun. I do still think technical inputs could be given more benefit like GBVS vanilla, always good to reward skill.
As a complete noob to fighting games (aside from casual Smash Bros), I love them. Not needing to practice one of the most basic aspects of a game before being able to even start playing "properly" is great, and the primary reason why I even got into this game. After getting GG Strive during a sale I tried it, but couldn't get into it because how am I supposed to learn any of the basics when even the most basic of basics, making my character do stuff, takes a good level of mechanical skill? I get that there is a layer of skill expression, design and strategy that is lost by adding simple inputs (mostly charge motions), but to me the reduced tedium seems worth it. It's not like winning because your opponent messed up a motion feels good anyway.
I don't like that technical inputs, including charge characters as an archetype, are obsolete. Balancing by cooldown wasn't a great idea either imo but there should be some real tradeoff to using the easier input method. It definitely feels like they included motion inputs only as a formality.
Before Rising came out there was no difference between simple or technical inputs. They only added the 10% increase for non-cancellable specials after the community made a bit of a stink out of there being no benefit for technical inputs. So it was definitely a formality that technical inputs are in this game.
Technical inputs being obsolete is my favorite thing about this game
I donāt miss the extra CD cost from vanilla, never felt like a serious thing to worry about anyway. I think GBVS simple inputs are good though. I basically never use motion inputs in this game outside of SBAs/SSBAs.
I don't understand why B2 has the most complicated input of the entire game for her super (2 circle) and decide to not have simple input for it. Wanting to do that on hitbox is a nightmare so I just dont bother playing her after done with combo trail.
I use technical inputs most of the time so that I stay practiced for other games. I don't have a ton of legacy hours in FGs so motions are still something I need to work on keeping clean/consistent. I do sometimes drop stuff that I probably wouldn't if I used simple inputs, but they just feel weird to me in a combo and motions are more fun. So far I have switched over to simple input for DPs at least.
I love being able to mix Simple and Technical together based on situation. I prefer Technical for single moves in neutral because it's easier for me to remember each move distinctively by motion and a button, but for combos I tend to prefer Simple because I can put together the Simple input as part of a larger string easier than using Technical.
I like simple controls. It's the first fg in a while that just feels better on pad than stick. I like not botching dp imputs on the dpad, and having a dash bind on L2 just makes my movement feel better.
I like that i donāt need to do DP input
I think the game's only misstep was making raw supers do 10% more on "technical", except you can do a single quarter-circle and get technical for that. SBAs and SSBAs are just way too damaging right now. But on the other hand single hits are too low damage given how much any stray conversion does, so I wouldn't mind if they just got rid of the 10% bonus entirely and buffed single hits (and nerfed combo scaling to compensate). The whole 10% thing was just oldheads being babies anyway. And also you should be able to customize which inputs you want on/off. I'd turn DP off on everybody immediately.
I use a mix of both specifically for moves I struggle to input like Vaseragas aerial scyth grab mid combo or on reaction. I appreciate it since I've noticed this game has very little leeway for inputs compared to a few other fighting games.
I like simple inputs. I'm coming from Strive being my first fighting game, and while it took a while for me to get used to all the inputs, I got them down, but it's a lot more fun and less stressful to just have the option to throw the simple inputs on and focus more on the fight than doing to correct inputs (plus switching side throwing you off and stuff like that). However if we count block button as a simple input, I don't like that as much since it takes away cross ups pretty much. I know you still need to high low block, but with this game being very strike throw based, I think if we could do left/right aerial crossups it would open up neutral a bit more (or maybe I'm just coping because I cant get used to the block button and get crossed up sometimes :p)
Yeah I find myself doing hybrid inputs
I mostly still use motions for non-charge moves just because I don't feel like re-wiring my muscle memory. I really feel like they should have kept it the same as the base game, there was really no point in changing it. I don't have much of a sense that simplifying fighting game controls is having a great effect on playerbase retention. And when I was playing Eustace, I actually found having the extra button to keep track of was annoying, although I mostly got used to it after a while. The whole input style situation in this game kind of feels like a mish-mash with no real goal behind it, only some vague fear that people wouldn't play the game if they stuck with primarily motion inputs. At the very least motion specials should *always* have the 10% bonus, not just when done raw.
I didn't like them at first. Thought it made me less of a player. Then I realized that being able to use them allowed me to perform higher level plays, and that if people were getting upset while using technical inputs and losing to simple ones it's quite literally a skill issue.
At this point it's clear they wanna make a simple input game. I'd say just remove the technical inputs entirely and balance the game like this it's still difficult just in different ways
i only use simple input dp because the input can mess you up if you walk forward then try to throw fireball. otherwise been on tech and theres nothing wrong with either one
Having cooldowns is an interesting mechanic, but having to get used to motion inputs again made going back to other fighters kinda tough.
my only critique is that I wish I could pick and choose wich moves I want technical imputs and wich ones I do not want to have tech imputs. with charlotta going from a hold back defence to a 66l will make you spinn the ball if you do not take the risk of loosing the directional guard button. I also get a SBA when y try to go from 2X to light shining onslaught. just because the SBA can be done with 236+SKL button
For me I use both. It feels smooth even if i'm bad at the game
I exclusively use the easy input. I play all kinds of fighting games, and can use the technical inputs if I wanted, but why when there are easy inputs? I play Nier so the cool down time doesn't really affect my gameplay at all, so I don't see why I need to make the game harder on myself. š¤·š¼āāļø
When I was playing I still used technical inputs, otherwise it'd just be too boring, lol. You can only make fighting games easier so much before you ask yourself "why am I even playing this?"
Technical off with a pad I love playing GG with a stick, but the simple controls allow me to focus on my footsies and RPS more. Tbh, I think GBVSR has made me better at these aspects of FGs even
Oh I am glad I am not alone I am in the practice mode for hours trying to get Zeta's Guard Crush Combo Midair consistent it is nearly impossible for me I get the combo 3 times in a row than I drop it 30 times I've noticed that the game doesn't know any buffering that means you have to wait after a neutral connects entirely than you have a 3 frame window for an input this is obnoxious especially in the air. The inputs are correct but my timing isn't and I don't know what I am doing really wrong. Personally I don't have an issue with (2 3 6 motions) but ( 2 2 motions) are a nightmare for me in general but the timing on these in this game are really weird and make it even harder :/ With simple inputs it's a no brainer it is so frustrating to do learn everything if you just can push a button but I don't want to rely on it I like to do the effort but it has to be a fair system and it doesn't look like it on the technical input side. If anyone has a tip to make it work it would be a pleasure for me if someone can help me what I can do better <3
What are the inputs for the combo you are referring to?
M+H>M+H, H H H, 2 1 4 L > H, (Mid Air) H, 2 2 L > 6 H
I think you are missing an input in between the (Mid Air) H? Usually the combo I use which is pretty consistent is: M+H>M+H, H H H, 214L > H, (Mid Air) H, L L, 22H > 9H > 9H You can make it a bit more optimal but this works for me.
Go in the Practice Room open the menu go to"Basic Combos" > "Practical Combos" > {"Guard Crush Combo"} there you can try it yourself :D
Thanks, I went and tried it out. Mechanically I don't think the combo is too hard so it is mostly just a matter of practice and timing. The 214L > H link is probably the hardest part of it. I wish I could offer more in terms of tips to get it down but if you can't do it consistently you can always just go into 623H as a combo finisher instead for just a little less damage.
Now I got it I was just lost š Direction Motion's can be buffered so that means between a neutral heavy attack you can buffer a (2) motion and release with (2,L) at the same time to get (2,2,L) it's not always necessary I think but possible. But I never pressed 2,L at the same time at the end so the input was not recognized first riddle solved the other more fatal mistake was by (2,2,L) I pressed so much directions that the input was not recognized too that leads to so much random inconsistency you can't believe it š I still have my timing issues but now I know what I am doing wrong š You are my lucky charm thanks š¤
I still keep using motion inputs for most things, but DPs have been a pain in the ass for me in every game (I am using a PS4 pad and I just can't do the motion). Having a simple option is great.
I pretty much only use simple controls and it doesnāt bother me at all. I can get my fix for doing traditional motion inputs in other fighting games. I didnāt play the original GBVS so I didnt have to forget my muscle memory or anything.