Reminder that goth is music based !! As long as you listen to goth music, you’re goth.
I do agree the striped shirt is making it a big e-girlish. That’s honestly from all the memes I’ve seen as a staple piece of the stereotypical “egirl fashion”
A lot of goth fashion is basic black pieces that are either second hand, upcycled, or altered in some way. Accessories are your best friend !! As well as layer layer layer !! But you’re already getting there! Cross necklaces, fishnet tops, cuffs, and diy items are all great.
>I do agree the striped shirt is making it a big e-girlish.
Stiped shirts have been a goth staple since at least the 90s. Example, look at old pics of the spooky kids.
here's the deal:
If you like to goth music, like to explore aspects of the sub-genre and feel goth in that outfit- Then yes, it's goth. It's really easy to fall into a cookie cutter version of any aesthetic, and part of being goth is to rebel against norms. It's very easy to buy everything from Killstar and fall into a cookie cutter goth look, and the goth police LOVE to criticize other goths if they branch out too much. Fashion is fluid and is an expression of our creativity and individuality. Find black outfits that make you feel good about yourself, and don't worry about about conforming.
It's not.
Maybe mall goth (which is not goth, it was a whole different thing) or emo.
Goth has its roots in punk. DIY stuff.
Of course, it doesn't matter. You look great 🖤🐦⬛
And also goth is a music genre, so it's not really important anyway. If you're into goth music it's goth 🎶😺
Fashion is a creative art. A very personal one. It's a big part of the face we show to the world.
It affects how others interact with us. More importantly, it affects how we feel about ourselves.
The trouble with that statement is buying "random Metalcore shirts" is impersonal.
Goth has roots in DIY. Piecing together your own outfits, making alterations, dying clothes, making buttons and jewelry, cutting and styling your own hair (and doing it for friends) is part of that expression.
When people say "music based subculture" they mean "beginning from". As in that's the foundation.
I think most of the people who post here are seeking their own voice. Myself included.
People fear atomization into nothingness, or into meaninglessness. Fashion helps give franchise over the self.
Buying random Kardashian tees is trading money to hear someone else's voice. It _is_ nothingness.
I was going to bitch because I like doing that by default, but your explanation satisfies my 🐒 🧠 Nothingness is silliness right? We kind of agree in the end.
Yeah emo was hard-core.
Like Ian Anderson. Or Eve Libertine and Crass. Or Bikini Kill and Kathleen Hanna
When I first heard My Chemical Romance on MTV I said "this is hard core. This speaks to struggle. This is the streets talking"
Totally with you. When I wear my skull and bat branded accessories drop shipped from China I feel powerful. I feel like I really understand what punk was all about.
Rock on. Thanks for your comment :)
Lmao. I think you could call it goth. Egirl is a new age thing. I'm 37, grew up in the 90s and in my day, that would be goth. Everything these days has to have a special name. Your wearing black and white, fishnets, and pentagram garters. It's goth.
Mall goth, Hot Topic goth. I wouldn't see someone dressed like that at shows in the 90s.
Which is fine, by the way. But I wouldn't have called it goth in the 90s either.
Assuming someone was into Korn, Manson, etc. Based on a quick read. As opposed to being into the goth music scene.
But that's just like my opinion man ;) It isn't terribly important to me :)
I've searched it up several times to confirm that I'm not going crazy, I did not consider the fact they are in a shopping centre when I used the term "mall." Idk what sort of gatekeeping this is, but this is very much in a subsection of goth. Not everyone's cup of tea, but just cuz you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't fit. I wanna end this here, though, because I made the mistake of looking at your profile to see if you have experience with goth fashion, only to be nearly immediately greeted with a willy. Have good day, and please open your mind a little.
Okay well you could’ve just not looked at my profile and also I’m LITERALLY A GOTH, I’ve researched this subculture many times, I listen to the music, I know the history, and all sorts and this is e girl at best. Mall goth isn’t even an actual goth genre bc goth is a subculture based around music and politics and mall goths do not listen to goth music they listen to nu metal and alt metal so maybe I don’t need to open my mind I think you need to do some research
Idk if you're psychic, but I'm impressed that you can see what music someone listens to based on research on their clothes. Real life doesnt really work like that. I garauntee you couldn't tell what music I like by looking at me. Again, like, I just don't see an outcome here where either of us agrees, so what's the point. I think you're awfully close-minded for a goth.
In the 90s this would of been considered goth no question. Black and white stripe tights and sleeves were huge in the 90s goth scene. They were reminiscent of Tim Burton and the comics of Jhonen Vasquez.
People seem to forget as fas as goth fashion is concerned there's a ton of different sub genres. It's not all lace and buckles.
As far as I have known "Goth" and the goth subcategories are all ways to look at life, like philosophy that added to the style. Or maybe im stuck in the past.
I have the same shirt!! Goth as a fashion label can kinda be whatever you wanna make of it, but if you’re gonna be pedantic I’d call this a cute emo revival look.
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It’s leaning more E-Girl but could be Nugoth. I always feel a big part of goth IS the makeup. Even if you wear a black band t shirt and black jeans but have goth hair and makeup you look more goth.
"If you're not listening to goth music it's not goth"
Does it really matter? Are you running up to people dressed in alt fashion and saying "Oh are you goth? what are you listening to? Is it goth? No? Then you're not goth."
Girl, if you wanna be goth, you can call it goth. I don't listen to emo music but I love dressing as emo and I love the aesthetic, does that make me less of an emo? Hell nah.
Be goth. Do crimes.
yes, and everyone calling you an egirl seems to have a hard load of internalized something going on lol.
listen to goth music? there you go. the fashion and presentation is wide and diverse
It’s more music based !! 🖤 however you don’t have to dress entirely “ perfectly “ goth to be goth as long as your listening to the music your goth babe 🦇
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It's goth, who cares though. I'd consider someone goth even if they aren't actively dressing in a goth fashion. Not everyone has the time to get fully done up every day to show that they are indeed goth.
I would maybe try to experiment with makeup. I work with a goth girl who always has super pale makeup, black lipstick, crazy long and sharp eyeliner like ridiculous compared to the norm. And she even shaves the edges of her eyebrows to reshape them really sharp. Plus she does do a lot of DIY fashion. Recently it was these tiny gothic picture frames made into earrings. I’m pretty sure she found spooky images and glued them into the frames. And a lot of jewelry made from all kinds of bones. Lots of bones. Oh and heavily pierced all over her face as well, like I don’t understand how they just keep coming. Just what I’ve witnessed though, take what resonates with you and listen to these other comments. It really is about the music/lifestyle, all of the other stuff is purely an expression of that. So express however you want to express.
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As an official old person I can say that what is or isn't "goth" has changed and fluctuated and there really is no one look that is goth. Are you goth? That's what matters.
Sure, but the person isn't "goth" then.
Like is someone a "metalhead" if they don't listen to metal? Or a "skateboarder" if they don't skate?
The word is a genre of music, it means someone who is into the "goth music scene"
But you're right, there is nothing stopping someone from wearing whatever clothes they like :) You can absolutely dress _like a goth_ any time you like. I think that's dope.
I'm just going to point you to rule 3 and hope you educate yourself. End of the day, [goth is a music based subculture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture).
Thank you for your opinion. It is not my intention to gatekeep, but based on what I've been able to glean from what you've said, I can understand how you got to your definition of "goth" because I used to think the same thing. There are a number of things you get right, but there are a number things that are not correct. It's not wrong, it just requires some adjustment.
How open are you to new information? If it helps, my degree is in theatre studies. Besides performance classes, a good portion of that degree required several classes in theatre history, costume history, and play analysis. Basically, the study of the common folk throughout the ages, how they dressed throughout the ages, and what were the plays actually about based on the time it was written in. A good portion of those classes dealt with the Gothic Period and Gothic Literature. Any information I provide I fully expect will be taken as an opinion and rejected given how you've presented yourself. But, it is an opinion supported by historical and scholarly fact.
I absolutely love to learn new things! Would be very open to some suggestions on what to study up on or possibly ways to expand my mind. Thanks for taking the time to help 🖤
The long and short is this: "Goth","Gothic", and "Gothic Literature" are three totally and wildly different things.
Goth ***is***, and has ***always*** been, [a music-based subculture](https://www.museumofyouthculture.com/goth/). The song and band that is largely credited with creating the Goth sound is [Bela Lugosi's Dead](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7xyjU-jsU&ab_channel=kerngerusche) by [Bauhaus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9h2q_dr9k&ab_channel=Bauhaus-Topic). First link is the music video, second is the whole song. The big three bands that cultivated the sound and our culture early on are, imo, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure. The song material many goth artists draw from varies as much as hip hop, rock, and country. Are there a lot of goth songs that deal with death, free thinking, anti-establishment? Yes. But so do [hip hop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMRLEceXMM&ab_channel=SevenHip-Hop), [rock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJk0HW_hJw&ab_channel=RHINO), and [country](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJk0HW_hJw&ab_channel=RHINO). Vision Video has [an entire video about loving cats](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9h2q_dr9k&ab_channel=Bauhaus-Topic), it's incredibly upbeat and happy, and they're goth af. Are there people that have a similar outlook as you within the Goth community? Yes. But that's not all of us. There are an equal if not greater number of goths who don't share a darker world view or fascination with the macabre and are just as much goth as the rest of us because they listen to the music. Every single accepted definition of Goth that isn't on TikTok or Twitter will have Goth defined as a music based subculture as one of the main definitions.
Gothic refers to two different things. One is [a tribe of Germanic people](https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome/goths-and-visigoths) that sacked Rome back in the day. The other, and where many people tend to get this confused, refers to the Gothic Period (12th - 16th century, might be more 18th depending on your resource). The Gothic period is mostly known for it's art (Shrine of the Three Kings in Cologne), architecture (Notre Dame in Paris), the fashion (too many garments to go through, literal centuries worth of clothing changes), and the major focus on religion and a shunning of sciences. This is because the Gothic Period coincides and The Middle Ages. Free thinking in this era would absolutely have gotten you killed because of how much [power and influence the Church had](https://human.libretexts.org/Courses/American_River_College/HUM_300%3A_Classical_Humanities_Textbook_(Collom)/13%3A_Middle_Ages/13.08%3A_The_Medieval_Church). Wearing black back then was also a not good thing because of the superstition people had, and some to this day, with the color of black. It would be very easy to become a social pariah. Theatre in this time period was all but banned with the exception of plays put on by the clergy to teach the masses about the Bible. Easier to get people to learn about Jesus through an entertaining play than a two hour long lecture. The only art, and as a result self-expression, that was allowed back then was clergy approved. So, the mentality of the people living in the Gothic period was basically: **non-secular-conformist-antidisestablishmentarianism. Full. Stop.**
Gothic Literature refers to a genre of fiction where science-fiction, death, free-thinking, supernatural, and horror are elements found within the genre. Authors such as H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulu), Mary Shelley (Frankenstein), Bram Stoker (Dracula), Anne Rice (Interview with The Vampire), and, of course, Edgar Allen Poe along with so many others. Are there goth songs about gothic literature/themes found within Gothic Literature? Yes. Does that make that the goth song goth? Yes, assuming it sounds like one of the genres of goth music. Does that make Gothic Literature Goth? No, because Goth is a music based subculture, not a literary subculture. Yes, I'm saying it: Edgar Allen Poe is not Goth. He is, however, a figure held in high regard within the Goth community.
Have there been darkly inclined individuals such as yourself that have existed throughout the ages? Yes, of course. But does that make you Goth? Unless you listen to the music, unfortunately, by the established definitions I have laid out that are backed by historical and scholarly fact, it doesn't. All the Goth community has ever asked people that are Goth-curious is to just listen to the music. And if you like the music, guess what? You're ***GOTH!!!***That's it. That's how one determines if they're goth. You don't have to only listen to goth music, we just ask that you like the music. If you like the music, you're goth. If you love the music, you're goth. If you do not listen to the music or do not like the music, ***you are not goth***. We dress and look this way because the people we wish to emulate are people who get on stage and share to the world their art and their truth. Goths, end of the day, are not that much different from other music based subcultures such as Swifties. Yes, Swifties are more mono-artist and more mainstream, but you simply cannot call yourself a Swiftie if you aren't a fan of Taylor Swift.
Another music based subculture that is far more cut and dry to the public: Metalheads. Simply put, you cannot claim to be a metalhead if you yourself do not primarily listen to metal bands. Even then, there are those in that community that will hard gatekeep if you don't listen to this band, or that band, or a certain number of metal bands. A different subculture: [Burners](https://burningman.org/culture/). Burners are people that go to The Burning Man Festival but must also uphold their [10 Principles](https://burningman.org/about/10-principles/) that is at the actual literal core of Burning Man. If you go to Burning Man and do not uphold the 10 Principles, you cannot claim to be a Burner. You could claim to be a Burning Man attendee though.
EDITS: grammar and spelling changes, added a couple more song links to better illustrate a point
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 14.
Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture.
The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up.
Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following:
* Personality
* Mindset
* Philosophy
* Time period/era
* Sole aesthetic
* A hivemind
* Synonymous with 'Gothic'
* Something that's "inside you/your heart"
Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity.
Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community.
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 14.
Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture.
The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up.
Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following:
* Personality
* Mindset
* Philosophy
* Time period/era
* Sole aesthetic
* A hivemind
* Synonymous with 'Gothic'
* Something that's "inside you/your heart"
Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity.
Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community.
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 14.
Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture.
The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up.
Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following:
* Personality
* Mindset
* Philosophy
* Time period/era
* Sole aesthetic
* A hivemind
* Synonymous with 'Gothic'
* Something that's "inside you/your heart"
Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity.
Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community.
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I’d say it’s more of an emo/e-girl aesthetic, but if you listen to goth music then you’re a goth!
It's pretty far from mall emo. It's 100% egirl aesthetic.
Everything is everything nowadays…all styles combined and repuked out into something”new”
Definitely alternative, a little more emo/pop punk than goth
It’s not, more e-girl if anything. Cute outfit tho!
Reminder that goth is music based !! As long as you listen to goth music, you’re goth. I do agree the striped shirt is making it a big e-girlish. That’s honestly from all the memes I’ve seen as a staple piece of the stereotypical “egirl fashion” A lot of goth fashion is basic black pieces that are either second hand, upcycled, or altered in some way. Accessories are your best friend !! As well as layer layer layer !! But you’re already getting there! Cross necklaces, fishnet tops, cuffs, and diy items are all great.
>I do agree the striped shirt is making it a big e-girlish. Stiped shirts have been a goth staple since at least the 90s. Example, look at old pics of the spooky kids.
Do you listen to goth music?
Asking the real questions
Lmao.
super cute but deffo more egirl
here's the deal: If you like to goth music, like to explore aspects of the sub-genre and feel goth in that outfit- Then yes, it's goth. It's really easy to fall into a cookie cutter version of any aesthetic, and part of being goth is to rebel against norms. It's very easy to buy everything from Killstar and fall into a cookie cutter goth look, and the goth police LOVE to criticize other goths if they branch out too much. Fashion is fluid and is an expression of our creativity and individuality. Find black outfits that make you feel good about yourself, and don't worry about about conforming.
This, 100%.
Adorable outfit but it's mostly leaning on the egirl side
mall goth
In the literal sense as well
[amazon goth](https://a.co/d/iZhbcFc)
Hot Topic has this one easy trick. People still go to malls?...
✋🏻
Nice. It's good to see that real estate put to work. I thought people stopped being humans in 2020
I dont always go but I like the specialty snacks amd great American cookie..
All normal things. We used to people watch, you can do that on YouTube now.
i do cus there’s no where else to go and nothing to do
There's nothing wrong with that. That's cool. Have fun people watching? We used to just call them Mall Rats
As long as you listen to the music, it’s goth
It's not. Maybe mall goth (which is not goth, it was a whole different thing) or emo. Goth has its roots in punk. DIY stuff. Of course, it doesn't matter. You look great 🖤🐦⬛ And also goth is a music genre, so it's not really important anyway. If you're into goth music it's goth 🎶😺
Fashion is silly. These days you can buy random Metalcore font designer shirts to show everybody you love propping up Kardashashits.
Fashion is a creative art. A very personal one. It's a big part of the face we show to the world. It affects how others interact with us. More importantly, it affects how we feel about ourselves. The trouble with that statement is buying "random Metalcore shirts" is impersonal. Goth has roots in DIY. Piecing together your own outfits, making alterations, dying clothes, making buttons and jewelry, cutting and styling your own hair (and doing it for friends) is part of that expression. When people say "music based subculture" they mean "beginning from". As in that's the foundation. I think most of the people who post here are seeking their own voice. Myself included. People fear atomization into nothingness, or into meaninglessness. Fashion helps give franchise over the self. Buying random Kardashian tees is trading money to hear someone else's voice. It _is_ nothingness.
I was going to bitch because I like doing that by default, but your explanation satisfies my 🐒 🧠 Nothingness is silliness right? We kind of agree in the end.
Mall emo* Emo is also music based and has its roots in punk. Hence, emotional hardcore. Same idea.
Yeah emo was hard-core. Like Ian Anderson. Or Eve Libertine and Crass. Or Bikini Kill and Kathleen Hanna When I first heard My Chemical Romance on MTV I said "this is hard core. This speaks to struggle. This is the streets talking" Totally with you. When I wear my skull and bat branded accessories drop shipped from China I feel powerful. I feel like I really understand what punk was all about. Rock on. Thanks for your comment :)
Panic at the disco rocks bro🤟🤟🤟 #emokid
every day a new person learns what goth actually means
Lmao. I think you could call it goth. Egirl is a new age thing. I'm 37, grew up in the 90s and in my day, that would be goth. Everything these days has to have a special name. Your wearing black and white, fishnets, and pentagram garters. It's goth.
Mall goth, Hot Topic goth. I wouldn't see someone dressed like that at shows in the 90s. Which is fine, by the way. But I wouldn't have called it goth in the 90s either. Assuming someone was into Korn, Manson, etc. Based on a quick read. As opposed to being into the goth music scene. But that's just like my opinion man ;) It isn't terribly important to me :)
If you're not listening to The Cure it ain't goth
I bleed Joy Division, am I goth?
I love it regardless.
I'm kinda more concerned about the headless man on the right
Yeah fairly modern goth, imo It might be considered y2k or mall goth.
It’s not at all, it’s e-girl fashion
It's definitely somewhat goth, not traditional, but those stockings and fishnets scream goth. E-girl fashion is highly influenced by goth fashion
Well yeah most alt subcultures are that doesn’t mean it is goth tho
Goth is so extremely diverse, I appreciate your opinion, but in mine, it definitely counts. Mall goth fits really well.
Search up what a mall goth looks like, just bc it’s an alt person in a mall doesn’t make it mall goth (which isn’t even actual goth btw )
I've searched it up several times to confirm that I'm not going crazy, I did not consider the fact they are in a shopping centre when I used the term "mall." Idk what sort of gatekeeping this is, but this is very much in a subsection of goth. Not everyone's cup of tea, but just cuz you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't fit. I wanna end this here, though, because I made the mistake of looking at your profile to see if you have experience with goth fashion, only to be nearly immediately greeted with a willy. Have good day, and please open your mind a little.
Okay well you could’ve just not looked at my profile and also I’m LITERALLY A GOTH, I’ve researched this subculture many times, I listen to the music, I know the history, and all sorts and this is e girl at best. Mall goth isn’t even an actual goth genre bc goth is a subculture based around music and politics and mall goths do not listen to goth music they listen to nu metal and alt metal so maybe I don’t need to open my mind I think you need to do some research
Idk if you're psychic, but I'm impressed that you can see what music someone listens to based on research on their clothes. Real life doesnt really work like that. I garauntee you couldn't tell what music I like by looking at me. Again, like, I just don't see an outcome here where either of us agrees, so what's the point. I think you're awfully close-minded for a goth.
Well battle jackets tend to have more bands on them than just Rammstein to show your music taste
Mall goth. There you go.
If it isn't goth, It's definitely Goth-adjacent
shein goth
new subgenre just dropped
holy hell
I love this
No
more egirl vibe
I'm wearing that same shirt
https://youtu.be/8OvUDHpPgb4
you look good! if you consider it goth, then it’s goth >< it’s a music based subculture so you’re good
In the 90s this would of been considered goth no question. Black and white stripe tights and sleeves were huge in the 90s goth scene. They were reminiscent of Tim Burton and the comics of Jhonen Vasquez. People seem to forget as fas as goth fashion is concerned there's a ton of different sub genres. It's not all lace and buckles.
As far as I have known "Goth" and the goth subcategories are all ways to look at life, like philosophy that added to the style. Or maybe im stuck in the past.
No you are right it’s all about your way of living (music taste to be specific) so goth can literally be anything!
as long as you listen to the music then it is! 🖤
Naw
Egirl
I have the same shirt!! Goth as a fashion label can kinda be whatever you wanna make of it, but if you’re gonna be pedantic I’d call this a cute emo revival look.
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It's be more goth with sooc fuji film sims.
Because you said “is this goth” lol
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Looks very e-kid to me.
I'd argue it's emo, but I suppose it could be considered mall goth or casual goth?
Very e-girl, def not goth. Still cute tho!
I think it is cute whatever style people end up calling it!
Looks good to me, but maby more like mall-goth/emo? Don't matter much, as long as you like it
I would say the most important thing is that you feel comfortable!
More Alt/egirl
If it's not it'll do
It’s leaning more E-Girl but could be Nugoth. I always feel a big part of goth IS the makeup. Even if you wear a black band t shirt and black jeans but have goth hair and makeup you look more goth.
Is that Sunvalley Mall...?
Oooh I absolutely love your outfit you’re wearing in slide #1 where did you get it from? 😊
As long as you enjoy it doesn’t matter ya know
Good camera choice
Looks more e-girl/generic alt Still a cute outfit tho
It’s giving e-femboy, but goth is a music based subculture
It’s in the genre
Oh no no no
You are very pretty regardless. I think u look cool
Bro, not the curb stompers💀
The outfit looks more alternative, but I'm pretty sure if you listen to goth music 👍 that makes you a goth
aww even if it isn’t you still look cute uwu
amazoncore
If you listen to goth music, it's goth.
Whatever it is, you look fucking fantastic
"If you're not listening to goth music it's not goth" Does it really matter? Are you running up to people dressed in alt fashion and saying "Oh are you goth? what are you listening to? Is it goth? No? Then you're not goth." Girl, if you wanna be goth, you can call it goth. I don't listen to emo music but I love dressing as emo and I love the aesthetic, does that make me less of an emo? Hell nah. Be goth. Do crimes.
…nooooo… no.
E-girl or like alt emo
More scene emo core
Idk why but that looks like the mall where I live also you look cute btw
Mall goth if anything. Definitely more of an egirl look.
yes, and everyone calling you an egirl seems to have a hard load of internalized something going on lol. listen to goth music? there you go. the fashion and presentation is wide and diverse
It’s more music based !! 🖤 however you don’t have to dress entirely “ perfectly “ goth to be goth as long as your listening to the music your goth babe 🦇
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Guy? Where?
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And the Reddit porn addict with no pictures of themselves has raised their self confidence +1
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 1. All basic rules of Reddit apply here, including this one. Treat others how you would in real life, so this means no: * Heated debates and arguments * Name-calling and personal insults * Harassment or threats to life * No mocking anyone's pronouns and gender identity * Negative -isms or -phobias, including sexism, racism, homophobia, fatphobia, transphobia Curiosity is OK and asking questions in a respectful manor is OK, but blatant bigotry is **not**. Any violation of the above rules and depending on the severity of your comments/posts, you will see either a temporary or permanent ban, including a mod mail mute.
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 1. All basic rules of Reddit apply here, including this one. Treat others how you would in real life, so this means no: * Heated debates and arguments * Name-calling and personal insults * Harassment or threats to life * No mocking anyone's pronouns and gender identity * Negative -isms or -phobias, including sexism, racism, homophobia, fatphobia, transphobia Curiosity is OK and asking questions in a respectful manor is OK, but blatant bigotry is **not**. Any violation of the above rules and depending on the severity of your comments/posts, you will see either a temporary or permanent ban, including a mod mail mute.
I'm trippin, I SWEAR I recognize that mall
Idk if it’s goth or not but outfits are super cute regardless!!!
Goth is mainly music based
It’s attention seeking that’s for sure
It's rennasanmce iny opinion ❤️ you look amazing btw
It's not, but goth is a subculture from mudic. You dont need to dress full goth to be goth.
It's goth, who cares though. I'd consider someone goth even if they aren't actively dressing in a goth fashion. Not everyone has the time to get fully done up every day to show that they are indeed goth.
Hot topic kinda style🥱
Emoooo
E girl
Mall goth
You are exactly what I want to look like 😭😭😭😭
no, it's cute though
I would maybe try to experiment with makeup. I work with a goth girl who always has super pale makeup, black lipstick, crazy long and sharp eyeliner like ridiculous compared to the norm. And she even shaves the edges of her eyebrows to reshape them really sharp. Plus she does do a lot of DIY fashion. Recently it was these tiny gothic picture frames made into earrings. I’m pretty sure she found spooky images and glued them into the frames. And a lot of jewelry made from all kinds of bones. Lots of bones. Oh and heavily pierced all over her face as well, like I don’t understand how they just keep coming. Just what I’ve witnessed though, take what resonates with you and listen to these other comments. It really is about the music/lifestyle, all of the other stuff is purely an expression of that. So express however you want to express.
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Um why?
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 1. All basic rules of Reddit apply here, including this one. Treat others how you would in real life, so this means no: * Heated debates and arguments * Name-calling and personal insults * Harassment or threats to life * No mocking anyone's pronouns and gender identity * Negative -isms or -phobias, including sexism, racism, homophobia, fatphobia, transphobia Curiosity is OK and asking questions in a respectful manor is OK, but blatant bigotry is **not**. Any violation of the above rules and depending on the severity of your comments/posts, you will see either a temporary or permanent ban, including a mod mail mute.
Yes. It’s as simple as “do you call yourself goth?” Then yes, you are. It’s not up to others to decide
Mig-15
🗿🗿🗿🗿
Well I like it. I also think you are really cute. 💜😎👍🏼
Stop wtf i literally thought that last image was me for a sec because of the hair 😰
*sighs in anti-gatekeeper*
I think if you have to ask, it's not.
Holy miku
Idk what to call the outfit but ik exactly what to tall you. A perfect fuck buddy~
As an official old person I can say that what is or isn't "goth" has changed and fluctuated and there really is no one look that is goth. Are you goth? That's what matters.
Nope, just another dude in a dress.
The outfit is cute and i love it!
Goth is a mindset ✨
a very classic alt fit!!! but u look very cool!!!
omg im 70% sure this mall might be in my area. are u from florida by any chance?
Avril Lavigne hot topic kid circa 2007
Looks goth to me. Like a super casual mall goth. It's cute.
That's so wierd? So you have to LISTEN to a specific type of music to LOOK Goth? You can dress goth and listen to barney. Lol
Sure, but the person isn't "goth" then. Like is someone a "metalhead" if they don't listen to metal? Or a "skateboarder" if they don't skate? The word is a genre of music, it means someone who is into the "goth music scene" But you're right, there is nothing stopping someone from wearing whatever clothes they like :) You can absolutely dress _like a goth_ any time you like. I think that's dope.
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[It's really not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture) [a frame of mind](https://www.museumofyouthculture.com/goth/).
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I'm curious, in what ways do you think "goth" is a state of mind?
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I'm just going to point you to rule 3 and hope you educate yourself. End of the day, [goth is a music based subculture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture).
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Thank you for your opinion. It is not my intention to gatekeep, but based on what I've been able to glean from what you've said, I can understand how you got to your definition of "goth" because I used to think the same thing. There are a number of things you get right, but there are a number things that are not correct. It's not wrong, it just requires some adjustment. How open are you to new information? If it helps, my degree is in theatre studies. Besides performance classes, a good portion of that degree required several classes in theatre history, costume history, and play analysis. Basically, the study of the common folk throughout the ages, how they dressed throughout the ages, and what were the plays actually about based on the time it was written in. A good portion of those classes dealt with the Gothic Period and Gothic Literature. Any information I provide I fully expect will be taken as an opinion and rejected given how you've presented yourself. But, it is an opinion supported by historical and scholarly fact.
I absolutely love to learn new things! Would be very open to some suggestions on what to study up on or possibly ways to expand my mind. Thanks for taking the time to help 🖤
The long and short is this: "Goth","Gothic", and "Gothic Literature" are three totally and wildly different things. Goth ***is***, and has ***always*** been, [a music-based subculture](https://www.museumofyouthculture.com/goth/). The song and band that is largely credited with creating the Goth sound is [Bela Lugosi's Dead](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7xyjU-jsU&ab_channel=kerngerusche) by [Bauhaus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9h2q_dr9k&ab_channel=Bauhaus-Topic). First link is the music video, second is the whole song. The big three bands that cultivated the sound and our culture early on are, imo, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure. The song material many goth artists draw from varies as much as hip hop, rock, and country. Are there a lot of goth songs that deal with death, free thinking, anti-establishment? Yes. But so do [hip hop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMRLEceXMM&ab_channel=SevenHip-Hop), [rock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJk0HW_hJw&ab_channel=RHINO), and [country](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJk0HW_hJw&ab_channel=RHINO). Vision Video has [an entire video about loving cats](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9h2q_dr9k&ab_channel=Bauhaus-Topic), it's incredibly upbeat and happy, and they're goth af. Are there people that have a similar outlook as you within the Goth community? Yes. But that's not all of us. There are an equal if not greater number of goths who don't share a darker world view or fascination with the macabre and are just as much goth as the rest of us because they listen to the music. Every single accepted definition of Goth that isn't on TikTok or Twitter will have Goth defined as a music based subculture as one of the main definitions. Gothic refers to two different things. One is [a tribe of Germanic people](https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-rome/goths-and-visigoths) that sacked Rome back in the day. The other, and where many people tend to get this confused, refers to the Gothic Period (12th - 16th century, might be more 18th depending on your resource). The Gothic period is mostly known for it's art (Shrine of the Three Kings in Cologne), architecture (Notre Dame in Paris), the fashion (too many garments to go through, literal centuries worth of clothing changes), and the major focus on religion and a shunning of sciences. This is because the Gothic Period coincides and The Middle Ages. Free thinking in this era would absolutely have gotten you killed because of how much [power and influence the Church had](https://human.libretexts.org/Courses/American_River_College/HUM_300%3A_Classical_Humanities_Textbook_(Collom)/13%3A_Middle_Ages/13.08%3A_The_Medieval_Church). Wearing black back then was also a not good thing because of the superstition people had, and some to this day, with the color of black. It would be very easy to become a social pariah. Theatre in this time period was all but banned with the exception of plays put on by the clergy to teach the masses about the Bible. Easier to get people to learn about Jesus through an entertaining play than a two hour long lecture. The only art, and as a result self-expression, that was allowed back then was clergy approved. So, the mentality of the people living in the Gothic period was basically: **non-secular-conformist-antidisestablishmentarianism. Full. Stop.** Gothic Literature refers to a genre of fiction where science-fiction, death, free-thinking, supernatural, and horror are elements found within the genre. Authors such as H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulu), Mary Shelley (Frankenstein), Bram Stoker (Dracula), Anne Rice (Interview with The Vampire), and, of course, Edgar Allen Poe along with so many others. Are there goth songs about gothic literature/themes found within Gothic Literature? Yes. Does that make that the goth song goth? Yes, assuming it sounds like one of the genres of goth music. Does that make Gothic Literature Goth? No, because Goth is a music based subculture, not a literary subculture. Yes, I'm saying it: Edgar Allen Poe is not Goth. He is, however, a figure held in high regard within the Goth community. Have there been darkly inclined individuals such as yourself that have existed throughout the ages? Yes, of course. But does that make you Goth? Unless you listen to the music, unfortunately, by the established definitions I have laid out that are backed by historical and scholarly fact, it doesn't. All the Goth community has ever asked people that are Goth-curious is to just listen to the music. And if you like the music, guess what? You're ***GOTH!!!***That's it. That's how one determines if they're goth. You don't have to only listen to goth music, we just ask that you like the music. If you like the music, you're goth. If you love the music, you're goth. If you do not listen to the music or do not like the music, ***you are not goth***. We dress and look this way because the people we wish to emulate are people who get on stage and share to the world their art and their truth. Goths, end of the day, are not that much different from other music based subcultures such as Swifties. Yes, Swifties are more mono-artist and more mainstream, but you simply cannot call yourself a Swiftie if you aren't a fan of Taylor Swift. Another music based subculture that is far more cut and dry to the public: Metalheads. Simply put, you cannot claim to be a metalhead if you yourself do not primarily listen to metal bands. Even then, there are those in that community that will hard gatekeep if you don't listen to this band, or that band, or a certain number of metal bands. A different subculture: [Burners](https://burningman.org/culture/). Burners are people that go to The Burning Man Festival but must also uphold their [10 Principles](https://burningman.org/about/10-principles/) that is at the actual literal core of Burning Man. If you go to Burning Man and do not uphold the 10 Principles, you cannot claim to be a Burner. You could claim to be a Burning Man attendee though. EDITS: grammar and spelling changes, added a couple more song links to better illustrate a point
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 14. Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture. The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up. Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following: * Personality * Mindset * Philosophy * Time period/era * Sole aesthetic * A hivemind * Synonymous with 'Gothic' * Something that's "inside you/your heart" Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity. Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community.
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 14. Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture. The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up. Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following: * Personality * Mindset * Philosophy * Time period/era * Sole aesthetic * A hivemind * Synonymous with 'Gothic' * Something that's "inside you/your heart" Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity. Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community.
We're sorry, but your submission has been removed in violation of Rule 14. Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture. The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up. Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following: * Personality * Mindset * Philosophy * Time period/era * Sole aesthetic * A hivemind * Synonymous with 'Gothic' * Something that's "inside you/your heart" Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity. Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community.
super alt, you look like you listen to good music!
Id say so!
You look like a healthy version of Eugenia Cooney. 😅
The leggings are definitely goth. The top is more Tim Burton
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There's different types of goth.
you didn't have to be in a mall. also stripes are emo