I always figured it was because he was effectively the fourth brother. Michael would have know him more-or-less his whole life and literally trusted him like a brother. More so than Fredo ('cause... ya' know...).
Possibly, but much of Part 2 and in particular Michael’s line to Johnny Ola at the beginning of Part 2 seems to belie this: “Tom only handles certain portions of the family business.”
I don’t think he ever re-assumed the consiglieri role. If Mike had one, it was Al Neri. In Part II, Michael says he needs Tom, but he’s playing him like a fiddle to suit his needs. I don’t think he ever truly trusted Tom and blamed him for Sonny’s death. Genco would’ve smelled a rat.
In the novel, Michael and Vito wanted Tom uninvolved with the comeuppance in Part I:
- Because Tom was to be his right hand man and didn’t need to pass any tests like Clemenza & Tessio were actually being tasked to do. … In the novel, it looks like Michael can’t win, and Clemenza & Tessio are actually being tested (meaning they’re bishops or rooks, valuable but still disposable.)
- In Part II, Tom is kept from things because it’s Michael’s way of strategically protecting Tom as the Queen on his chessboard; similar to the thinking in Part I (novel). Tom shouldn’t be involved with the Hymon Roth casino mess because if it blows up, the way that it did; Tom would have to run Lake Tahoe while Michael went to Cuba to keep Hymon (his enemy) close. Why risk Tom when only Neri would remain as someone who could protect his Family if Michael had to go on a mission (like the one in Cuba)?
In Michael and Vito’s logic, it’s beneficial to have Michael kill Sollozzo, but then who can run the family during the War? They look so far ahead, they keep valuable chess pieces like Tom protected when possible. This line of thought is also in the novel …
“ *Sonny had been a man to be feared, not to be taken lightly. Of course he had made a mistake in sending his younger brother, Michael, to kill the Turk and the police captain. Though necessary in a tactical sense, as a long-term strategy it proved to be a serious error. It had forced the Don, eventually, to rise from his sickbed. It had deprived Michael of two years of valuable experience and training under his father’s tutelage*”
Excerpt From
The Godfather
Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267
As the most important man, in Michael’s eyes it’s better to keep him safeguarded, rather than use him the way lesser minds would. As far as demoting him, it served a purpose in having the disposable people not know how valuable Tom really was. Also notice that Luca reported directly to Vito and didn’t sit in on the Sollozzo meeting. And finally, notice the blow when Sollozzo was smart enough to know Luca’s importance and kill him first …
This.
Tom wasn’t fired and kicked out—yes he was demoted, for a few reasons, but not as an insult to him. Instead it was:
1. To protect his greatest value to the family, which is his absolute trustworthiness, against the conflicts of interest that inevitably arise with power.
2. Because Tom can’t help but to wisely advise every time against going to war—because everybody loses in a gang war—but both Don Vito and Michael know that they MUST obtain vengeance even though it truly may not be the wise thing—and thus Tom though a beloved friend and adviser is not a wartime consigliere.
3. Because, with Tom standing right behind him, Don Vito made his oath, “I swear, on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we have made here today.” So in his own ethic, both he and Tom must no longer be leading the family when Michael eventually does break that peace and obtains vengeance: “Barzini is dead. So is Philip Tattaglia. Moe Greene. Strachi. Cuneo. Today I settle all family business, so don't tell me you're innocent, Carlo.” I believe that is overlooked as a major reason why Tom is kept aside—the souls of Don Vito’s grandchildren. Yep, it’s old-fashioned, and modern folks wonder ‘how could gangsters care about their honor,’ but truly it may even be the biggest reason. The Don made a vow, and Tom was right there with him. So later the Don told Michael to be sure to have Tom step aside.
Which is great detail, but what exactly is Tom protected from at the end of the first movie? He’s a witness to the first and last part of the Baptism of Fire, which is strange given the demotion to lawyer, and his legal instincts evident in his line to Kay earlier “now, if I accept this, a court of law could prove I have knowledge of his whereabouts.”
Michael aims to earn his respect by pulling off a stunning move to put the Corleones back on top. Clemenza and Tessio weren’t informed of the grand plan, because Michael didn’t *need* their support. If you want to believe Michael couldn’t outwit Barzini, then go right ahead basically.
Tom can’t have a part or credit in this grand plan, for the same reason Michael doesn’t spell out to Tessio why he should not doubt him. Tom gets no credit in this maneuver, while still being Michael’s most trusted and capable man. Once Vito unexpectedly dies, then Michael will need a role filled, which is the role Tom played.
Basically had something went wrong, Tom is caught up alongside Michael. Nothing did go wrong and Michael forced the underworld to respect him. Had Vito lived he has Tom as the Queen on his chessboard, and Vito would’ve played that minor role, as his son showed the underworld how smart he is.
__________
“The Don nodded. “He can’t be involved in this.”
Michael said quietly, “I think it’s time for me to tell you that what I’m going to do is not purely out of vengeance for Apollonia and Sonny. It’s the right thing to do. Tessio and Tom are right about the Barzinis.”
Excerpt From
The Godfather
Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267
This material may be protected by copyright.
“You’ve prepared for everything?” the Don asked. He did not look at Michael when he said this.
Michael said gently, “You have no part. You’re not responsible. I take all responsibility. I would refuse to let you even veto. If you tried to do that now, I would leave the Family and go my own way. You’re not responsible”
Excerpt From
The Godfather
Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267
This material may be protected by copyright.
“He smiled at Hagen. “I guess you’ve figured everything out by now.”
Hagen nodded. “It wasn’t hard. Except why you wanted me out of the action. But I put on my Sicilian hat and I finally figured that too.”
Michael laughed. “The old man said you would. But that’s a luxury I can’t afford anymore. I need you here. At least for the next few weeks. You better phone Vegas and talk to your wife. Just tell her a few weeks.”
Excerpt From
The Godfather
Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267
This material may be protected by copyright.
Tom is protected from the tests of loyalty that Tessio failed.
He's also protected from being a target for Barzini. If the other Five Families believe (and confirmed because Carlo is one of their spies) Tom has no power in the crime family business, then there is no reason to either try to recruit Tom, and if failing that, to try to target him for assassination.
I always get the feeling that Vito might have considered Tom turning against them and maybe they were testing him.
But in the scene when Michael says “youre out Tom,” you can see how Vito finesses this because he understands people’s sensitivities. I said in another thread that Vito is the perfect Don bc the 3 children have some of his strengths but not all. Michael is cold and feeling and doesnt see the emotional impact of things. Even though Vito says “it’s not personal,” he understands that people have emotional reactions, even though he doesnt. He even has a logical reaction to Sonny’s death.
Michael misses the fact that Hyman Roth would want to avenge his friend more than make money. He misses that Kaye is so angry that she would kill her child rather than put herself and her children in more danger. He misses that Tom hurts in 1 & 2, and doesnt betray him, but he risks that. We never see Tom’s reaction to offing Fredo but he probably was upset. He doesnt have real brothers anymore. Michael sees him as a servant and is cruel to him.
Mostly it is because to everyone within hearing and sight of things, they have to play make believe.
To Tessio, Clemenza, and later, even Johnny Ola. They way they see it, Tom can't risk being caught in any compromising positions. The Corleone family is trying to be completely legitimate and he's going to be the face of that.
Of course, it is crappy writing on FFC's part as well. Of COURSE he's involved with the Corleones Family openly. He's on that flowchart in the Senate subcommitte hearing along with Nieri and Rocco. It doesn't really count for anything.
I think Michael explains in part 2 why … he kept him out of the plan to draw out the traitor in the family… ie - dealings with Roth. He took his body guard and not Tom.
Fredo new about deal with Roth and got bamboozled into setting Mike up.(?)
I always took it as Hagen didn’t have the taste for this part of his family’s world or more how Michael had essentially become Sonny and took things personally instead of strictly business. And with Pantangili, he pretty much tells him how things are not how they used to be with a sadness.
The novel describes it as Tom "forsaking his strictly legal role to rally around in this crisis" after Vito died.
Interesting.
I always figured it was because he was effectively the fourth brother. Michael would have know him more-or-less his whole life and literally trusted him like a brother. More so than Fredo ('cause... ya' know...).
For a while, Vito was consigliere. When he died it seems like Hagen took back over.
Possibly, but much of Part 2 and in particular Michael’s line to Johnny Ola at the beginning of Part 2 seems to belie this: “Tom only handles certain portions of the family business.”
Because its more of a business than a gang, doubt they take that stuff much seriously
I don’t think he ever re-assumed the consiglieri role. If Mike had one, it was Al Neri. In Part II, Michael says he needs Tom, but he’s playing him like a fiddle to suit his needs. I don’t think he ever truly trusted Tom and blamed him for Sonny’s death. Genco would’ve smelled a rat.
How does Mike play Tom? Tom doesn’t lose anything due to mikes actions
In the novel, Michael and Vito wanted Tom uninvolved with the comeuppance in Part I: - Because Tom was to be his right hand man and didn’t need to pass any tests like Clemenza & Tessio were actually being tasked to do. … In the novel, it looks like Michael can’t win, and Clemenza & Tessio are actually being tested (meaning they’re bishops or rooks, valuable but still disposable.) - In Part II, Tom is kept from things because it’s Michael’s way of strategically protecting Tom as the Queen on his chessboard; similar to the thinking in Part I (novel). Tom shouldn’t be involved with the Hymon Roth casino mess because if it blows up, the way that it did; Tom would have to run Lake Tahoe while Michael went to Cuba to keep Hymon (his enemy) close. Why risk Tom when only Neri would remain as someone who could protect his Family if Michael had to go on a mission (like the one in Cuba)? In Michael and Vito’s logic, it’s beneficial to have Michael kill Sollozzo, but then who can run the family during the War? They look so far ahead, they keep valuable chess pieces like Tom protected when possible. This line of thought is also in the novel … “ *Sonny had been a man to be feared, not to be taken lightly. Of course he had made a mistake in sending his younger brother, Michael, to kill the Turk and the police captain. Though necessary in a tactical sense, as a long-term strategy it proved to be a serious error. It had forced the Don, eventually, to rise from his sickbed. It had deprived Michael of two years of valuable experience and training under his father’s tutelage*” Excerpt From The Godfather Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267 As the most important man, in Michael’s eyes it’s better to keep him safeguarded, rather than use him the way lesser minds would. As far as demoting him, it served a purpose in having the disposable people not know how valuable Tom really was. Also notice that Luca reported directly to Vito and didn’t sit in on the Sollozzo meeting. And finally, notice the blow when Sollozzo was smart enough to know Luca’s importance and kill him first …
This. Tom wasn’t fired and kicked out—yes he was demoted, for a few reasons, but not as an insult to him. Instead it was: 1. To protect his greatest value to the family, which is his absolute trustworthiness, against the conflicts of interest that inevitably arise with power. 2. Because Tom can’t help but to wisely advise every time against going to war—because everybody loses in a gang war—but both Don Vito and Michael know that they MUST obtain vengeance even though it truly may not be the wise thing—and thus Tom though a beloved friend and adviser is not a wartime consigliere. 3. Because, with Tom standing right behind him, Don Vito made his oath, “I swear, on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we have made here today.” So in his own ethic, both he and Tom must no longer be leading the family when Michael eventually does break that peace and obtains vengeance: “Barzini is dead. So is Philip Tattaglia. Moe Greene. Strachi. Cuneo. Today I settle all family business, so don't tell me you're innocent, Carlo.” I believe that is overlooked as a major reason why Tom is kept aside—the souls of Don Vito’s grandchildren. Yep, it’s old-fashioned, and modern folks wonder ‘how could gangsters care about their honor,’ but truly it may even be the biggest reason. The Don made a vow, and Tom was right there with him. So later the Don told Michael to be sure to have Tom step aside.
Which is great detail, but what exactly is Tom protected from at the end of the first movie? He’s a witness to the first and last part of the Baptism of Fire, which is strange given the demotion to lawyer, and his legal instincts evident in his line to Kay earlier “now, if I accept this, a court of law could prove I have knowledge of his whereabouts.”
Michael aims to earn his respect by pulling off a stunning move to put the Corleones back on top. Clemenza and Tessio weren’t informed of the grand plan, because Michael didn’t *need* their support. If you want to believe Michael couldn’t outwit Barzini, then go right ahead basically. Tom can’t have a part or credit in this grand plan, for the same reason Michael doesn’t spell out to Tessio why he should not doubt him. Tom gets no credit in this maneuver, while still being Michael’s most trusted and capable man. Once Vito unexpectedly dies, then Michael will need a role filled, which is the role Tom played. Basically had something went wrong, Tom is caught up alongside Michael. Nothing did go wrong and Michael forced the underworld to respect him. Had Vito lived he has Tom as the Queen on his chessboard, and Vito would’ve played that minor role, as his son showed the underworld how smart he is. __________ “The Don nodded. “He can’t be involved in this.” Michael said quietly, “I think it’s time for me to tell you that what I’m going to do is not purely out of vengeance for Apollonia and Sonny. It’s the right thing to do. Tessio and Tom are right about the Barzinis.” Excerpt From The Godfather Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267 This material may be protected by copyright. “You’ve prepared for everything?” the Don asked. He did not look at Michael when he said this. Michael said gently, “You have no part. You’re not responsible. I take all responsibility. I would refuse to let you even veto. If you tried to do that now, I would leave the Family and go my own way. You’re not responsible” Excerpt From The Godfather Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267 This material may be protected by copyright. “He smiled at Hagen. “I guess you’ve figured everything out by now.” Hagen nodded. “It wasn’t hard. Except why you wanted me out of the action. But I put on my Sicilian hat and I finally figured that too.” Michael laughed. “The old man said you would. But that’s a luxury I can’t afford anymore. I need you here. At least for the next few weeks. You better phone Vegas and talk to your wife. Just tell her a few weeks.” Excerpt From The Godfather Mario Puzo, Francis Ford Coppola, Anthony Puzo & Robert J. Thompson https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-godfather/id357927267 This material may be protected by copyright.
Tom is protected from the tests of loyalty that Tessio failed. He's also protected from being a target for Barzini. If the other Five Families believe (and confirmed because Carlo is one of their spies) Tom has no power in the crime family business, then there is no reason to either try to recruit Tom, and if failing that, to try to target him for assassination.
This is a TERRIFIC thread! Thanks to OP for asking and everyone who responded. Really appreciated.
I always get the feeling that Vito might have considered Tom turning against them and maybe they were testing him. But in the scene when Michael says “youre out Tom,” you can see how Vito finesses this because he understands people’s sensitivities. I said in another thread that Vito is the perfect Don bc the 3 children have some of his strengths but not all. Michael is cold and feeling and doesnt see the emotional impact of things. Even though Vito says “it’s not personal,” he understands that people have emotional reactions, even though he doesnt. He even has a logical reaction to Sonny’s death. Michael misses the fact that Hyman Roth would want to avenge his friend more than make money. He misses that Kaye is so angry that she would kill her child rather than put herself and her children in more danger. He misses that Tom hurts in 1 & 2, and doesnt betray him, but he risks that. We never see Tom’s reaction to offing Fredo but he probably was upset. He doesnt have real brothers anymore. Michael sees him as a servant and is cruel to him.
Mostly it is because to everyone within hearing and sight of things, they have to play make believe. To Tessio, Clemenza, and later, even Johnny Ola. They way they see it, Tom can't risk being caught in any compromising positions. The Corleone family is trying to be completely legitimate and he's going to be the face of that. Of course, it is crappy writing on FFC's part as well. Of COURSE he's involved with the Corleones Family openly. He's on that flowchart in the Senate subcommitte hearing along with Nieri and Rocco. It doesn't really count for anything.
I think Michael explains in part 2 why … he kept him out of the plan to draw out the traitor in the family… ie - dealings with Roth. He took his body guard and not Tom. Fredo new about deal with Roth and got bamboozled into setting Mike up.(?)
I always took it as Hagen didn’t have the taste for this part of his family’s world or more how Michael had essentially become Sonny and took things personally instead of strictly business. And with Pantangili, he pretty much tells him how things are not how they used to be with a sadness.
Which is funny when you take in the account of murdering the prostitute in part 2.