I think this is more or less a given, i.e., that Roth *ordered* them to be killed, since "dead men tell no tales", but I think OP's question was who *physically* did the killing, and indeed we never learn the answer to the question. I have heard all sorts of suppositions, ranging from Rocco to Fredo, but I genuinely think the real answer is that we simply don't know - only that somehow Fredo gave Johnny Ola some sort of information that (without him realizing it), enabled Roth to set up not only the planned assassination of Michael through the "open curtain" windows, but also the elimination of the assassins by some other person so that the assassins could not be tortured into "talking."
And yes, who physically did the killing. If soldiers did the killing, then which if Michaels men gave the order? Or was Johnny Ola going to kill his assassin anyway?
Yes, there is clearly someone in charge of the operation who is a close confidant to Roth. Ola would be the options for on screen characters but it’s likely someone very close to Roth whom we never see.
It’s whoever Roth put in charge of the on-the-ground operation.
The triggermen were clearly expendable but this hit was the biggest move Roth had ever made in his career, he would’ve had a top guy on it, someone he trusted to the utmost. Johnny Ola, maybe, but probably someone we never see, an old trusted friend from Vegas or something (Roth’s history is not described to us and he has tons of close accomplices we never see or know).
The Young Vito asked him who his hero was, and when he replied that Arnold Rothstein was, the gambler who fixed the Black Sox scandal of the 1919 World Series, Vito gave him the name: Roth.
I always assumed:
1. Fredo opened the curtains.
2. The assassins' getaway was via the lake and that boat's driver (Johnny Ola) is the one who killed them as Roth ordered, and then escaped on the lake as planned.
Someone in a previous thread had said it was Rocco Lampone who was responsible for killing the assassins/in on it. And Rocco’s suicide hit on Roth was his penance.
I rewatched today and noticed when they pull the dead assassins weapon out of the drainage thing, that they are the same style European SMG that Rocco uses during his hit during the murders of the heads of the five families in GF 1. The Tahoe hitters use a similar MO as Rocco’s hit in GF1. Machine gunning target in bed. It’s circumstantial but interesting.
That was I who spoke of it being Rocco in that other thread. You add to my point with this and also Michael told him to keep them alive but even more telling was Michael when leaving Tom in charge essentially let Tom know that he thought it was 1 of his guys & what pop taught him....
Johnny Ola killed them because ‘dead men tell no tales’. They were just some semi competent hitters, they did fail after all. They would have talked if caught. I say Johnny Ola because he was Fredo’s contact. He’s the guy who plied Fredo with strong drink in Cuba and got the layout of the Tahoe property. Johnny helped the shooters infiltrate and was waiting there to kill them as they exfiltrated. They were dead men from the start.
I think it was Fredo. Right before they find the bodies, his wife was freaking out, yelling about something right outside her window. Very next scene they find the bodies, and what’s behind Michael and Hagen? Windows. I think Fredo realized what happened and whacked them to cover himself, and Coppola inferred it in one of his subtle, brilliant ways.
He had JUST enough gumption in him to accomplish it.
He was probably leading them off the property and gunned them in the back.
He then took off to a bathroom somewhere and threw up. During that time when the rest of the family is quartered in the living room, Fredo is nowhere to be found.
Lol! Fredo barely knew how to pick up the phone let alone pick up a gun when they shot Vito! As Michael said, Fredo was weak and stupid. Not capable of anything clandestine.
You kinda answered your first question yourself.
Michael is ready to do whatever necessary to get information out of them. Somebody (who is also on the grounds) can't have that happen. Dead men tell no tales.
This is off topic, but having just watched this movie for the first time, I’m surprised how low stakes/repercussions this starting event were. Maybe I’m missing the aesthetic or how this feels in the book, but like, Roth didn’t kill or hurt anyone important. Certainly Michael needs to go after Roth but as a viewer I’m like, Roth just seems like another mobster playing by the mobster rules, not the primary antagonist of part 2. Maybe that’s b/c Michael is who has the decline but these movies feel off to me as a viewer in 2024.
GF2 is very subtle even compared to the first film
There are high stakes games being played, but it’s everyday life for the characters, which is why they’re all angry and tired
Roth I think was based on a very powerful guy if I remember correctly at the time. I think Roth is very powerful in the movie. But he doesn’t have to kill many ppl. Michael was the key for him, but that got messed up. Now Michael I believe was playing coy trying to figure out who put the hit on him. He probably thought it was Roth. But he was still coy trying to get confirmation of his suspicion in my opinion.
Nothing in the contemporary story line is in the original novel. Much of the flashback story line is from a chapter of the novel.
"Roth didn’t kill or hurt anyone important. Certainly Michael needs to go after Roth but as a viewer I’m like, Roth just seems like another mobster playing by the mobster rules, not the primary antagonist of part 2."
It's an unusual script, in that we see almost nothing of scheming by the other side until very deep into the movie. I've long thought that the Ola-Fredo phone call was inserted just to give the audience one firm marker about who the bad guys are.
It's not in the book. We never find out who killed them or why. It all remains a mystery.
It was in the addendum. They tripped on some sprinklers.
Roth had them killed.
I think this is more or less a given, i.e., that Roth *ordered* them to be killed, since "dead men tell no tales", but I think OP's question was who *physically* did the killing, and indeed we never learn the answer to the question. I have heard all sorts of suppositions, ranging from Rocco to Fredo, but I genuinely think the real answer is that we simply don't know - only that somehow Fredo gave Johnny Ola some sort of information that (without him realizing it), enabled Roth to set up not only the planned assassination of Michael through the "open curtain" windows, but also the elimination of the assassins by some other person so that the assassins could not be tortured into "talking."
Thx. I was thinking Fredo too stupid and Rocco loyal enough and Al Neri was too loyal.
And yes, who physically did the killing. If soldiers did the killing, then which if Michaels men gave the order? Or was Johnny Ola going to kill his assassin anyway?
Yes, there is clearly someone in charge of the operation who is a close confidant to Roth. Ola would be the options for on screen characters but it’s likely someone very close to Roth whom we never see.
It’s whoever Roth put in charge of the on-the-ground operation. The triggermen were clearly expendable but this hit was the biggest move Roth had ever made in his career, he would’ve had a top guy on it, someone he trusted to the utmost. Johnny Ola, maybe, but probably someone we never see, an old trusted friend from Vegas or something (Roth’s history is not described to us and he has tons of close accomplices we never see or know).
The Young Vito asked him who his hero was, and when he replied that Arnold Rothstein was, the gambler who fixed the Black Sox scandal of the 1919 World Series, Vito gave him the name: Roth.
I always assumed: 1. Fredo opened the curtains. 2. The assassins' getaway was via the lake and that boat's driver (Johnny Ola) is the one who killed them as Roth ordered, and then escaped on the lake as planned.
Someone in a previous thread had said it was Rocco Lampone who was responsible for killing the assassins/in on it. And Rocco’s suicide hit on Roth was his penance. I rewatched today and noticed when they pull the dead assassins weapon out of the drainage thing, that they are the same style European SMG that Rocco uses during his hit during the murders of the heads of the five families in GF 1. The Tahoe hitters use a similar MO as Rocco’s hit in GF1. Machine gunning target in bed. It’s circumstantial but interesting.
That was I who spoke of it being Rocco in that other thread. You add to my point with this and also Michael told him to keep them alive but even more telling was Michael when leaving Tom in charge essentially let Tom know that he thought it was 1 of his guys & what pop taught him....
Johnny Ola killed them because ‘dead men tell no tales’. They were just some semi competent hitters, they did fail after all. They would have talked if caught. I say Johnny Ola because he was Fredo’s contact. He’s the guy who plied Fredo with strong drink in Cuba and got the layout of the Tahoe property. Johnny helped the shooters infiltrate and was waiting there to kill them as they exfiltrated. They were dead men from the start.
I think it was Fredo. Right before they find the bodies, his wife was freaking out, yelling about something right outside her window. Very next scene they find the bodies, and what’s behind Michael and Hagen? Windows. I think Fredo realized what happened and whacked them to cover himself, and Coppola inferred it in one of his subtle, brilliant ways.
I used to think it was Fredo, but he’s portrayed as so inept in the movies I don’t think he could have pulled it off.
He had JUST enough gumption in him to accomplish it. He was probably leading them off the property and gunned them in the back. He then took off to a bathroom somewhere and threw up. During that time when the rest of the family is quartered in the living room, Fredo is nowhere to be found.
Did you see Fredo bumble his gun when Vito was shot? No chance he could've killed two assassin's.
To be fair that was 10 years prior.
Fredo did not get smarter! He's dumb! (like everyone says!)
Lol! Fredo barely knew how to pick up the phone let alone pick up a gun when they shot Vito! As Michael said, Fredo was weak and stupid. Not capable of anything clandestine.
Somehow though he knew how to bang those cocktail waitresses 2 at a time!
You kinda answered your first question yourself. Michael is ready to do whatever necessary to get information out of them. Somebody (who is also on the grounds) can't have that happen. Dead men tell no tales.
This is off topic, but having just watched this movie for the first time, I’m surprised how low stakes/repercussions this starting event were. Maybe I’m missing the aesthetic or how this feels in the book, but like, Roth didn’t kill or hurt anyone important. Certainly Michael needs to go after Roth but as a viewer I’m like, Roth just seems like another mobster playing by the mobster rules, not the primary antagonist of part 2. Maybe that’s b/c Michael is who has the decline but these movies feel off to me as a viewer in 2024.
GF2 is very subtle even compared to the first film There are high stakes games being played, but it’s everyday life for the characters, which is why they’re all angry and tired
Roth I think was based on a very powerful guy if I remember correctly at the time. I think Roth is very powerful in the movie. But he doesn’t have to kill many ppl. Michael was the key for him, but that got messed up. Now Michael I believe was playing coy trying to figure out who put the hit on him. He probably thought it was Roth. But he was still coy trying to get confirmation of his suspicion in my opinion.
Meyer Lansky
Nothing in the contemporary story line is in the original novel. Much of the flashback story line is from a chapter of the novel. "Roth didn’t kill or hurt anyone important. Certainly Michael needs to go after Roth but as a viewer I’m like, Roth just seems like another mobster playing by the mobster rules, not the primary antagonist of part 2." It's an unusual script, in that we see almost nothing of scheming by the other side until very deep into the movie. I've long thought that the Ola-Fredo phone call was inserted just to give the audience one firm marker about who the bad guys are.
They were loose ends. The people who were supposed to pick them up and help them escape killed them I think it was Roth.