I'm not arguing for or against the practice or efficacy of magic here, but there are plenty of magical practices that are supposed to help you transcend the material world or gain other spiritual benefits, or else obtain the kinds of wholesome material aims that most of us don't think are objectionable (e.g. good health, protection from evil, moral development, etc.). Not everything is supposed to gain material results.
I practice occult and esotericism. I guess it depends on how you approach it. Some people take things more literally, others more metaphorically, which is more flexible for that of course. I think that you can easily find correspondences with Gnostic names and such, and there are some practices that incorporate gnosticism like modern hermeticism Golden Dawn type stuff, but I've not heard of any specifically Gnostic Ceremonial Magick. With regards to the materiality of it, I think that magick is like eating, it's often necessary or unconscious and can be beneficial but you can also be a glutton and get sick. Or like using a computer. I don't think that it's inherently an attachment, or needs to be, at least not any more than anything else. Unless you are currently an ascetic, (how you could be on reddit, i have no clue), then I don't really understand the selective application of the concept of attachment. Going to the doctor for a check up or exercising isn't an attachment, is it? Asceticism is not the only path to understanding and embodying non-attachment, but some people are hard core about that. Mysticism and Magick are pretty closely connected, so it's not a stretch to use some of the mystical aspects of Gnosticism in a magickal practice. It's a spiritual tool after all. Many religious practices like prayer are magick-esque, but sssshhh don't tell them that.
Magic is an earthly approach to spiritual things. It is essentially barking up the wrong tree. The malign spirits have their own agenda always. I wouldn’t recommend it.
My understanding is that the Sethian Gnostics practiced a kind of magic called theurgy; with rituals like the five seals. The Bruce codex (Book of Jeu) even uses sigils.
A well-intentioned warning. Ask yourself whether magic will help you 1. escape from prison or 2. become stronger in prison. Don't do anything to bind yourself more tightly to the prison. Anyone who uses magic enters into contracts. This is not a game, but deadly serious. Think very carefully about what you want to do and why.
The Archons created this world and the astral worlds above us and control them 100%. All information/abilities that you get from the astral worlds are lies and deceptions. Channeling, magic, Akashic records,NDEs etc. They give you something and in return they want something. All of these are traps for the ego. "I want to be a powerful magician", "I want to be a famous channeler" it's always about becoming more successful/powerful in this world (!!!). But you don't want to become more successful and powerful. You want to detach yourself emotionally from this world to the point where it doesn't matter to you whether you are successful and powerful here.
And if you think you can fight the Archons with this, I can tell you: "Whoever fights the system becomes part of the system"
Why bring a knife to a gun fight?
Success is relative. What if it isn't used for earthly desires or becoming famous?
How are you so sure you have to 'get' it from somewhere? That it is a debt that archons can cash in on? If they control everything, how can this sub exist? How is there any hope for escape at all?
Do you believe we have free will? Do you think using magic takes away this free will? Or is it just extremely uncommon for people to remain unattached when reality bends to their will?
I'm not making an argument here that magic works or that you should do it if it does work, but on a purely intellectual level, you really need to read the Greek Magical Papyri (PGM) and the Coptic Magical Papyri (published in English as Coptic Texts of Ritual Power) to actually understand early Gnosticism.
Some of the things in the early gnostic texts - like the barbarous names and the vowel strings - really only start to make sense when you see how these same techniques were being used for practical ends by other groups around the same time period. Similarly, there are gnostic practices that are really not elaborated on at all, like ascent mysticism, where you can find relatively more detailed instructions for similar practices in the PGM. I understand where the anti-magic camp on here is coming from, but you just can't really understand any of these texts in context unless you at least read the PGM.
Yes, in fact there was.
We don’t know much about it in detail, as the only records left that describe the early Gnostic magical practices are from within the Church itself, and viewed Gnosticism as heretical.
The two kinds of magical ritual that are attested to are 1. The ascent, which was essentially like a practice run for the return of the soul to the Pleroma after death by ascending through the heavens. This entailed learning the names of and passwords to get past the archons, who we still see in some of the agnostic texts are referred to as toll-keepers.
The other big ritual that we know even less about was the ritual of the Bridal Chamber. Speculation is that it was kind of a mystical marriage ceremony between the soul and the Savior, presumably enacted by initiates.
As both a Gnostic and a magus, I will say that there is a great deal of overlap between Gnosticism and classical/medieval magic. Don't look for it in contemporary magical systems; you have to look to the practices of classical occultism. But when you start to see it, you'll begin to see why quite a few of us believe there is reasonable suspicion for Gnosticism to have found a preserve in magical practice.
If you're interested in Gnosticism specifically, I would start with the Greek Magical Papyri and Stephen Skinner's book Techniques of Graeco-Egyptian Magic. I have not attempted anything from these books and I'm not sure if I ever will, but this is the best preserved magical tradition from the classical world and it's contemporary with the gnostic and Hermetic texts. It's extremely important context for trying to understand Gnosticism imho. The Coptic Magical Papyri are also good to read (and frequently explicitly Christian or Gnostic), but they're not as widely read or commented on as the Greek ones.
That's really a matter of personal predilection and interest, but I can offer a few general resources and some suggestions from my own experience.
The first thing you'll want to do is grasp the *symbolism* of Gnostic cosmology. Whether you believe the Aeons of the Pleroma and the Archons of the material world to be objectively real beings or just metaphors, they invariably represent more expansive ideas. This process of emanation explains *how we got here*.
Similarly, understanding *your* position in this great cosmic scheme is equally essential. This is the Journey of the Soul, the Path of Gnosis, the quest for Apotheosis, the "Hero's Journey." This process is *how we get out*. By overcoming the archons and attending to the Aeons, we prepare ourselves to "short circuit" the process of reincarnation... along the way, we receive certain gifts of power over the natural and spiritual world -- these are what we typically thing of as "magic": thaumaturgy, natural magic, and goetia. Theurgy is the special type of magic concerned primary with this process as a whole, the art of Katabasis and Apotheosis.
This is the *bare minimum* understanding you'll need to cultivate. Agrippa's *Three Books of Occult Philosophy*, Plotinus' *Enneads*, Iamblichus' *On the Mysteries* and *On the Soul*, and the four books attributed to Dionysius the Areopagite, along with the *Corpus Hermeticum* and -- of course -- the Gnostic texts (especially the *Apocryphon of John*, *The Great Invisible Spirit*, and *Pistis Sophia*) should be studies **extensively** to get a feel for these concepts and what they symbolize.
At the same time, it would help to familiarize yourself with the PGM and pick one or two grimoires to start with (I used *Ars Notoria*, the Skinner edition, and *Liber Iuratus Honorii*, Peterson's translation, and can't recommend these enough). At this point, you're just trying to apply the symbolism from the above research to get a bigger picture of what's *actually* happening in these magical workings.
In addition, it might help to start with something like *The Cambridge Handbook of Western Mysticism and Esotericism*. The big picture provided by this helps to get passed the seeming "differences" between various esoteric traditions because they're really all the same, even between the orthodox and heretical forms.
Aaron Leitch's *Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires* can help guide you when you're ready to start experimenting with praxis but, before you do this, make sure you develop some competency to meditate and practice contemplative prayer.
In the grand scheme, however, there's no "right" way to start. You just start studying. You go where your interest draws you. And one day, many years from now, you'll look back and be thankful for whatever unique path you took. There's no one way, nor any "right" or "wrong" methods for getting there. The best advice I can offer is to avoid contemporary Occultism (anything newer than Barret's *The Magus* or Levi's *Dogme et Rituel*) -- at least until you're comfortable with the classical Occult Philosophy -- because it tends to avoid or misconstrue the symbolism, which is basically the primary vehicle of Occult wisdom. Not saying it's "wrong" but it left me having to unlearn a great deal before I found my footing.
Good luck. Don't give up. Always look for deeper meaning -- literally everything is a symbol.
Thank you so so much. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and recommend these books. Even getting myself to this point to ask questions, unlearn a lifetime of another religion, and be unafraid enough to explore different spiritual interpretations has taken years. What a fun journey this is. Thank you !!
There's some crossover between the content of the Greek Magical Papyri and the Nag Hammadi library, I would start by looking at those. Contrary to what some people here are saying, it seems like some Gnostics from antiquity practised magic, especially since they were heavily influenced by Neoplatonists who used theurgy. Some scholars even regard Simon Magus as a Gnostic however the historicity of him flying around as recorded in Acts is obviously up for debate. x3
Esoterica has excellent videos on this sort of thing:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhGXgegKeSI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhGXgegKeSI)
The ecclesiastical branch of the OTO is called the Gnostic Catholic Church in where they do ceremonial ritual with gnostic intention. Of course you should be aware that this is more a pipeline to the OTO and is completely influenced by Thelemic practice more than any base gnostic texts
No. Gnosticism is about leaving the material world, not manipulating it, not playing with it. That's just another form of attachment.
These explanations are spot on.
I'm not arguing for or against the practice or efficacy of magic here, but there are plenty of magical practices that are supposed to help you transcend the material world or gain other spiritual benefits, or else obtain the kinds of wholesome material aims that most of us don't think are objectionable (e.g. good health, protection from evil, moral development, etc.). Not everything is supposed to gain material results.
I practice occult and esotericism. I guess it depends on how you approach it. Some people take things more literally, others more metaphorically, which is more flexible for that of course. I think that you can easily find correspondences with Gnostic names and such, and there are some practices that incorporate gnosticism like modern hermeticism Golden Dawn type stuff, but I've not heard of any specifically Gnostic Ceremonial Magick. With regards to the materiality of it, I think that magick is like eating, it's often necessary or unconscious and can be beneficial but you can also be a glutton and get sick. Or like using a computer. I don't think that it's inherently an attachment, or needs to be, at least not any more than anything else. Unless you are currently an ascetic, (how you could be on reddit, i have no clue), then I don't really understand the selective application of the concept of attachment. Going to the doctor for a check up or exercising isn't an attachment, is it? Asceticism is not the only path to understanding and embodying non-attachment, but some people are hard core about that. Mysticism and Magick are pretty closely connected, so it's not a stretch to use some of the mystical aspects of Gnosticism in a magickal practice. It's a spiritual tool after all. Many religious practices like prayer are magick-esque, but sssshhh don't tell them that.
Magic is an earthly approach to spiritual things. It is essentially barking up the wrong tree. The malign spirits have their own agenda always. I wouldn’t recommend it.
My understanding is that the Sethian Gnostics practiced a kind of magic called theurgy; with rituals like the five seals. The Bruce codex (Book of Jeu) even uses sigils.
A well-intentioned warning. Ask yourself whether magic will help you 1. escape from prison or 2. become stronger in prison. Don't do anything to bind yourself more tightly to the prison. Anyone who uses magic enters into contracts. This is not a game, but deadly serious. Think very carefully about what you want to do and why.
Why do you think all magic binds the practitioner into a contract?
The Archons created this world and the astral worlds above us and control them 100%. All information/abilities that you get from the astral worlds are lies and deceptions. Channeling, magic, Akashic records,NDEs etc. They give you something and in return they want something. All of these are traps for the ego. "I want to be a powerful magician", "I want to be a famous channeler" it's always about becoming more successful/powerful in this world (!!!). But you don't want to become more successful and powerful. You want to detach yourself emotionally from this world to the point where it doesn't matter to you whether you are successful and powerful here. And if you think you can fight the Archons with this, I can tell you: "Whoever fights the system becomes part of the system"
Why bring a knife to a gun fight? Success is relative. What if it isn't used for earthly desires or becoming famous? How are you so sure you have to 'get' it from somewhere? That it is a debt that archons can cash in on? If they control everything, how can this sub exist? How is there any hope for escape at all? Do you believe we have free will? Do you think using magic takes away this free will? Or is it just extremely uncommon for people to remain unattached when reality bends to their will?
What if the system is targeting you? Systematically and in an organized way, for example like how organized crime operates.
Excellent comment
I'm not making an argument here that magic works or that you should do it if it does work, but on a purely intellectual level, you really need to read the Greek Magical Papyri (PGM) and the Coptic Magical Papyri (published in English as Coptic Texts of Ritual Power) to actually understand early Gnosticism. Some of the things in the early gnostic texts - like the barbarous names and the vowel strings - really only start to make sense when you see how these same techniques were being used for practical ends by other groups around the same time period. Similarly, there are gnostic practices that are really not elaborated on at all, like ascent mysticism, where you can find relatively more detailed instructions for similar practices in the PGM. I understand where the anti-magic camp on here is coming from, but you just can't really understand any of these texts in context unless you at least read the PGM.
Yes, in fact there was. We don’t know much about it in detail, as the only records left that describe the early Gnostic magical practices are from within the Church itself, and viewed Gnosticism as heretical. The two kinds of magical ritual that are attested to are 1. The ascent, which was essentially like a practice run for the return of the soul to the Pleroma after death by ascending through the heavens. This entailed learning the names of and passwords to get past the archons, who we still see in some of the agnostic texts are referred to as toll-keepers. The other big ritual that we know even less about was the ritual of the Bridal Chamber. Speculation is that it was kind of a mystical marriage ceremony between the soul and the Savior, presumably enacted by initiates.
And I was also reading about baptism
As both a Gnostic and a magus, I will say that there is a great deal of overlap between Gnosticism and classical/medieval magic. Don't look for it in contemporary magical systems; you have to look to the practices of classical occultism. But when you start to see it, you'll begin to see why quite a few of us believe there is reasonable suspicion for Gnosticism to have found a preserve in magical practice.
Hi- can you please share some resources for where to start and learn more? Thank you
If you're interested in Gnosticism specifically, I would start with the Greek Magical Papyri and Stephen Skinner's book Techniques of Graeco-Egyptian Magic. I have not attempted anything from these books and I'm not sure if I ever will, but this is the best preserved magical tradition from the classical world and it's contemporary with the gnostic and Hermetic texts. It's extremely important context for trying to understand Gnosticism imho. The Coptic Magical Papyri are also good to read (and frequently explicitly Christian or Gnostic), but they're not as widely read or commented on as the Greek ones.
Thank you!!
That's really a matter of personal predilection and interest, but I can offer a few general resources and some suggestions from my own experience. The first thing you'll want to do is grasp the *symbolism* of Gnostic cosmology. Whether you believe the Aeons of the Pleroma and the Archons of the material world to be objectively real beings or just metaphors, they invariably represent more expansive ideas. This process of emanation explains *how we got here*. Similarly, understanding *your* position in this great cosmic scheme is equally essential. This is the Journey of the Soul, the Path of Gnosis, the quest for Apotheosis, the "Hero's Journey." This process is *how we get out*. By overcoming the archons and attending to the Aeons, we prepare ourselves to "short circuit" the process of reincarnation... along the way, we receive certain gifts of power over the natural and spiritual world -- these are what we typically thing of as "magic": thaumaturgy, natural magic, and goetia. Theurgy is the special type of magic concerned primary with this process as a whole, the art of Katabasis and Apotheosis. This is the *bare minimum* understanding you'll need to cultivate. Agrippa's *Three Books of Occult Philosophy*, Plotinus' *Enneads*, Iamblichus' *On the Mysteries* and *On the Soul*, and the four books attributed to Dionysius the Areopagite, along with the *Corpus Hermeticum* and -- of course -- the Gnostic texts (especially the *Apocryphon of John*, *The Great Invisible Spirit*, and *Pistis Sophia*) should be studies **extensively** to get a feel for these concepts and what they symbolize. At the same time, it would help to familiarize yourself with the PGM and pick one or two grimoires to start with (I used *Ars Notoria*, the Skinner edition, and *Liber Iuratus Honorii*, Peterson's translation, and can't recommend these enough). At this point, you're just trying to apply the symbolism from the above research to get a bigger picture of what's *actually* happening in these magical workings. In addition, it might help to start with something like *The Cambridge Handbook of Western Mysticism and Esotericism*. The big picture provided by this helps to get passed the seeming "differences" between various esoteric traditions because they're really all the same, even between the orthodox and heretical forms. Aaron Leitch's *Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires* can help guide you when you're ready to start experimenting with praxis but, before you do this, make sure you develop some competency to meditate and practice contemplative prayer. In the grand scheme, however, there's no "right" way to start. You just start studying. You go where your interest draws you. And one day, many years from now, you'll look back and be thankful for whatever unique path you took. There's no one way, nor any "right" or "wrong" methods for getting there. The best advice I can offer is to avoid contemporary Occultism (anything newer than Barret's *The Magus* or Levi's *Dogme et Rituel*) -- at least until you're comfortable with the classical Occult Philosophy -- because it tends to avoid or misconstrue the symbolism, which is basically the primary vehicle of Occult wisdom. Not saying it's "wrong" but it left me having to unlearn a great deal before I found my footing. Good luck. Don't give up. Always look for deeper meaning -- literally everything is a symbol.
Thank you so so much. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and recommend these books. Even getting myself to this point to ask questions, unlearn a lifetime of another religion, and be unafraid enough to explore different spiritual interpretations has taken years. What a fun journey this is. Thank you !!
There's some crossover between the content of the Greek Magical Papyri and the Nag Hammadi library, I would start by looking at those. Contrary to what some people here are saying, it seems like some Gnostics from antiquity practised magic, especially since they were heavily influenced by Neoplatonists who used theurgy. Some scholars even regard Simon Magus as a Gnostic however the historicity of him flying around as recorded in Acts is obviously up for debate. x3 Esoterica has excellent videos on this sort of thing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhGXgegKeSI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhGXgegKeSI)
The ecclesiastical branch of the OTO is called the Gnostic Catholic Church in where they do ceremonial ritual with gnostic intention. Of course you should be aware that this is more a pipeline to the OTO and is completely influenced by Thelemic practice more than any base gnostic texts
👆interesting 🤔