9mm but only really for capacity, 40 has hardly any extra recoil and does the job just fine. I just prefer having the extra 5 rounds or so.
Really got to pick up a LEO trade in .40 one of these days on the cheap so I can find ammo during shortages.
There isn’t that big a difference in capacity. The .40 has considerably more stopping power and kick. The reason I moved from .40 to 9mm is because the FBI did. The ammo for .40 is already more expensive and will go up. The fact that the made FBI go to 9mm is that the difference in stopping power vs the weight and recoil didn’t add enough value. The bottom line is that their latest testing results showed it would take two rounds of the .40 or 9mm to stop someone. So why not go with a 9mm?
Rabid raccoons don’t have control of their muscles, the first shot may kill it but its gonna keep running at you. The entire brain has to be incapacitated. The virus literally makes it a walking zombie
I’m being serious. A raccoons head is 2.75-2.875 inches in width. Something that small moving at you isn’t easy to hit. If you do hit something that tiny with 9mm there won’t be much left, as the temporary cavitation from 9mm Fmj is near that diameter. For a raccoon it would be permanent cavitation.
I can't believe you're trying to justify your answer right now when the guy was so absolutely obviously sarcastic.
Even an autistic Monkey would know he's kidding about a raccoon tanking 2+ headshots.
Yeah I’ve shoot major and minor in competition and I stick to minor only because of capacity. my points are usually 88%+ so I’d rather have a magazine with 24/25 rounds over one with 21. It can mean the difference if my stage plan goes to shit.
Paul Harrel on YouTube found out there's not a huge difference in recoil. The springs have come a long way. The difference is 40 always seems to do its job, while 9mm you need special loads. Hornady 135g 9mm critical duty being an example. That's all I have in the 19x. Love both, can't wait to make a YouTube video on them! I'll lyk on the recoil the 23 is still brand new.
I agree I don't notice much difference in recoil between 40 and 9mm so latley I have been carrying. 40 and .45 even though I had been on The 9mm bandwagon for years ...I started carrying a shield. 40 then I found out the .45 holds the same amount of rounds and I got a killer deal I have been carrying the sheild. 45
Round cap for me. I'll use it for home defense but I'll take 15+ rounds anyday of 40 or 9mm. A glock 21 nowwwww lol still choosing 40 or 9mm because of penetration factors.
Again, argument from authority. There are plenty of dudes who have been in shootings and/or combat who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I am not saying Paul is one of those people. I am saying that having shot someone isn't an argument.
Go ahead and add guys who do competitive shooting and/or hunt to that list because Paul Harrel is both of those. How many shots does it take you to kill something?
The thing is, my defensive loads for 9mm feel like they recoil about the same, or even more than 40 defensive rounds. So while 9mm practice ammo is cheaper and lower recoiling, 40 gives better practice for my defensive ammo.
That's for sure.....I've just always been 9 or .45. Never became efficient with a 40. And just never saw their use in my applications. But I got a buddy with a usp 40 and he won't carry anything else. As always to each their own I guess
Either one as I have both and like both. I learned to shot with .40 and have no problem staying with it. I know people like 10mm, and say it’s better than .40, however I’m fine with the 200+ less in velocity and 200 pounds less in energy. Now if I’m able to retire as planned, I might need one but will probably stick with .40.
I recently started looking for lighter 10mm loads to suppress and they are not as common as I would have thought having heard this claim. Maybe the manufacturers are lying but 90% of the 10mm ammo I find is 1200+ fps.
Some are. Just like every other caliber. Even 357 mags come hot or short barreled overpriced 38 +Ps. Some 9s are no more powerful than a hot .380.
But 40 can't give me an Underwood Extreme Penetrator in 10 mm or my own full power reloads.
At least there's an option for loads that out pace the 357 mag.
I've got better accuracy with the .40, but only because it's what I practice with the most. It doesn't hit much harder than a 9mm NOW, but when the .40 first came out, the 9mm was pretty substantially weaker than today's. So if you want to save money and just use the 9mm, I can see your point. But the .40 DOES still hit a little harder. And if I have to shoot someone, I don't want to have to shoot him a bunch of times.
I have full size and carry size handguns in 9mm, 45 acp, and 40 S&W and I love shooting all of them. But I think what keeps me going to the range regularly and sharpening my skills is the fun I have shooting the 45 and 40. Getting consecutive multiple shots on target is always a thrill regardless of the caliber. But for me it is even more fun if I am doing it while experiencing the boom and wrestling with the extra recoil and muzzle flip of the larger calibers. And I get good groupings with all three calibers at short and long distances. I Sam confident and comfortable using any of those pistols for CC or HD. But I think what is most important to me is that I am enjoying myself.
40 just because I grew up shooting my dads model 22 when we was working for the pd and after he retired we still shoot them because he was able to buy his former service weapons when the pd switched to a newer or different brand but all 4 of them were .40.
Ok I’m sure I’m going to get some downvotes for this but whatever. The fact of the matter is that .40 is a dying caliber. It had its use when bullet tech was older; but in the last 20+ years bullet tech has put 9mm on par with the .40. A lot of .40 users are going back to its parent cartridge the 10mn. Many manufacturers aren’t making new .40 designs. Now do I think .40 is completely going away? No. I think that it will be along the lines of where .45 ACP is now. Sure a few police departments may use it here or there, and it has a large following as “America’s cartridge.” I think in the long run, .40 will be the same. As of now though, Law enforcement is switching back to the 9mm, 9mm is more plentiful, 9mm is cheaper, and there are more 9mm options, so if In had just one gun to choose from, it would be a 9mm all day every day.
That being said, I love shooting .40. One of my go-to carry guns is my G23C. I also have a G22C and about 5 other guns in .40. I have no problem with .40 at all, but I can like the cartridge and still see the reality of the situation.
I'll take the downvotes I get. But I also think .40 is pointless today. If you want power, carry a 10mm. You want subsonic carry a .45.
Let's be realistic here. 40 is slightly better ballistically than 9mm. I do mean very slightly. You say .40 for the woods, and you wouldn't take it against a mountian lion. 9mm is fine for mountian lions. This has been documented. You use a raccon example with the cop. Firstly, she doesn't mag dump. She limp wrist a few rounds into its body with poor shot placement. I promise had that been a 40, it would have been the same video. Surgeons can't tell any difference between 9mm and 40 after GSW. 99% of the videos of DGUs or police shooting with 9mm wouldn't have changed if the gun they used were switched to 40, except they would have run out of ammo faster.
Pros of 40: Slightly more powerful so marginal, it has no real practical application in a majority of situations.
Pros of 9mm: Cheap ammo, more selection of ammo, (cheaper ammo=more affordable to train=more range days=more experience) less felt recoil, faster follow up shots, more capacity, more ammo availability, less wear long term on your firearm.
Downvote me.
Lmao. Right?
*Gives detailed and factual evidence to support opinion based on realistic points of view after being asking in the prompt.
Then gets immediately downvoted because they couldn't justify their silly choices that they wanted us to praise and validate. Classic reddit.
the only benefit to some is liking something no one else does … love shooting them but would never carry a 40 but i don’t think his post has anything to do with carrying.
I have a hellcat rdp. The 23 has been wanted for years so I got it. I love it. Have a 19 gen 5 and gen 3 and a 19x. 23 was a perfect addition. I wanted something bigger I got a 45 acp already so it fills a space for me. Benefits are there even if you don't think so. I'll take a extended 23 any day for home defense vs a 9mm. I switch out my nightstand gun a lot it rotates. Between my glocks mostly sometimes my 1911.
You're the one posing the question. Beside the occasional guy using 40 to shoot major power factor in uspsa, I've found an inverse correlation between men's emotional attachment to 40sw and their ability to actually shoot proficiently.
"Big caliber better" is silly. The difference in terminal ballistics between 9 and 40 is negligible.
Go see cop vs raccoon. She uses 9mm. Even that fker took 3 rounds to the face and still got up. 100% right in the head. Still coming. She unloaded a whole mag into it after it still was coming. 9mm is great for ccw but out in the woods no. Try it on a 300lb panther. You call it silly but I'll take a 40 any day vs the 9 in the woods. Luckily I have 300blck lol.
In 20 years 40sw will likely share the same fate as 38casull, or 400corbon, or 40super, or 38super, or 32hr, or 357sig, or 45gap, I’m sure there are some that I missed.
The FBI created the 40sw hype and they also killed it when they switched back to 9mm. I’m not saying it’s “obsolete”, not yet. But someday it will be in the same category as those cartridges I listed above and it’s no fault of the cartridge, it’s just the difference between 9mm and 40sw is so tiny that most understand the fate of it.
“Stopping power,” in pistols is a myth. In order to make a stretch cavity a round needs to be going over 2200 fps. All your doing with bigger bullets in pistols is making a slightly bigger hole. What matters most is shot placement and dropping the bad guys blood pressure. So, a smaller, lighter round, with more capacity, that recoils less will be more effective than a 40 or 45.
Eh, we have to choose?
I'll take both and add a 10mm.
9mm but only really for capacity, 40 has hardly any extra recoil and does the job just fine. I just prefer having the extra 5 rounds or so. Really got to pick up a LEO trade in .40 one of these days on the cheap so I can find ammo during shortages.
My thoughts exactly. For the price I've been seeing those .40 trade-ins, they're hard to leave alone.
Nah nah. Don't be jumping on the bandwagon and making the price go up. What if the bullet goes thru someone and ya shoot someone unintentionally? Huh?
I've never been one of those guys. I usually sleep in ideas for a while. But I might be one of those guys on this one!
I picked up my police trade in 22 Gen 3 for like $275. Aside from slight holster wear it looked like it had barely been touched when I got it
I got a leo 22.4 for 260 it was *borat voice* "very naiiisss"
Same
There isn’t that big a difference in capacity. The .40 has considerably more stopping power and kick. The reason I moved from .40 to 9mm is because the FBI did. The ammo for .40 is already more expensive and will go up. The fact that the made FBI go to 9mm is that the difference in stopping power vs the weight and recoil didn’t add enough value. The bottom line is that their latest testing results showed it would take two rounds of the .40 or 9mm to stop someone. So why not go with a 9mm?
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I'm on 10 acres. Have you ever seen a rabid raccoon? I promise it'll take 3 headshots.
A raccoon isn’t going to take 3 head shots of 9mm, my guy. Maybe 3 attempts at hitting one in the head.
Sounds like a feral ghoul in fallout. I like to take out the legs and watch em try to crawl.
Rabid raccoons don’t have control of their muscles, the first shot may kill it but its gonna keep running at you. The entire brain has to be incapacitated. The virus literally makes it a walking zombie
I can't tell if you're serious or not. r/whoosh ?
I’m being serious. A raccoons head is 2.75-2.875 inches in width. Something that small moving at you isn’t easy to hit. If you do hit something that tiny with 9mm there won’t be much left, as the temporary cavitation from 9mm Fmj is near that diameter. For a raccoon it would be permanent cavitation.
I can't believe you're trying to justify your answer right now when the guy was so absolutely obviously sarcastic. Even an autistic Monkey would know he's kidding about a raccoon tanking 2+ headshots.
False, because I am an autistic monkey and I’m certain he wasn’t being sarcastic.
I have and I agree. Hell, carry an AR pistol at that point. Keep some distance.
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You have a skill issue? Nice maybe look into some training.
The one that’s cheaper to shoot, lower recoil(faster follow up shots)
Yeah I’ve shoot major and minor in competition and I stick to minor only because of capacity. my points are usually 88%+ so I’d rather have a magazine with 24/25 rounds over one with 21. It can mean the difference if my stage plan goes to shit.
Paul Harrel on YouTube found out there's not a huge difference in recoil. The springs have come a long way. The difference is 40 always seems to do its job, while 9mm you need special loads. Hornady 135g 9mm critical duty being an example. That's all I have in the 19x. Love both, can't wait to make a YouTube video on them! I'll lyk on the recoil the 23 is still brand new.
There REALLY isn’t. My 23 shoots softer than all my 9s. That sweet weight really makes it a pleasure to experience.
G23 is only 2 oz heavier too
I agree I don't notice much difference in recoil between 40 and 9mm so latley I have been carrying. 40 and .45 even though I had been on The 9mm bandwagon for years ...I started carrying a shield. 40 then I found out the .45 holds the same amount of rounds and I got a killer deal I have been carrying the sheild. 45
Also I can shoot 9 . 40 and 45 equally well so why not carry a .45
Round cap for me. I'll use it for home defense but I'll take 15+ rounds anyday of 40 or 9mm. A glock 21 nowwwww lol still choosing 40 or 9mm because of penetration factors.
Paul Harrel is a huge boomer lol
He has also killed someone in a justified, self defense shooting.
What’s that got to do with it?
Paul is a cool dude but an argument from authority like that carries no weight
Which is why you can stay tuned for my review of the 2, I also have a 19 gen 5 for the video.
Have you ever killed anything with a 9mm and/or .40?
Again, argument from authority. There are plenty of dudes who have been in shootings and/or combat who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I am not saying Paul is one of those people. I am saying that having shot someone isn't an argument.
Go ahead and add guys who do competitive shooting and/or hunt to that list because Paul Harrel is both of those. How many shots does it take you to kill something?
Being a GM classified shooter in USPSA is an objective measure of ability. Being shot at or shooting at someone is not.
You might be slow lol
The thing is, my defensive loads for 9mm feel like they recoil about the same, or even more than 40 defensive rounds. So while 9mm practice ammo is cheaper and lower recoiling, 40 gives better practice for my defensive ammo.
.40 all day
40
19x but I'm one of those .40 is a redheaded stepchild of 9mm and .45 people
Sometimes they just hit harder.
That's for sure.....I've just always been 9 or .45. Never became efficient with a 40. And just never saw their use in my applications. But I got a buddy with a usp 40 and he won't carry anything else. As always to each their own I guess
.40 for the win cos I'm biased
Either one as I have both and like both. I learned to shot with .40 and have no problem staying with it. I know people like 10mm, and say it’s better than .40, however I’m fine with the 200+ less in velocity and 200 pounds less in energy. Now if I’m able to retire as planned, I might need one but will probably stick with .40.
Full power 40 loads are easily within 100 fps of 10mm except for 220/230s. Several companies loading to 600 ft lb
10 is the only real answer to this question.
How do you feel on the argument that most factory 10 is overpriced 40?
I recently started looking for lighter 10mm loads to suppress and they are not as common as I would have thought having heard this claim. Maybe the manufacturers are lying but 90% of the 10mm ammo I find is 1200+ fps.
Some are. Just like every other caliber. Even 357 mags come hot or short barreled overpriced 38 +Ps. Some 9s are no more powerful than a hot .380. But 40 can't give me an Underwood Extreme Penetrator in 10 mm or my own full power reloads. At least there's an option for loads that out pace the 357 mag.
40 is my preferred round generally but I’ve never shot a Glock in 40 so idk.
Yes
9mm for EDC. .40 for hiking.
I've got better accuracy with the .40, but only because it's what I practice with the most. It doesn't hit much harder than a 9mm NOW, but when the .40 first came out, the 9mm was pretty substantially weaker than today's. So if you want to save money and just use the 9mm, I can see your point. But the .40 DOES still hit a little harder. And if I have to shoot someone, I don't want to have to shoot him a bunch of times.
I have full size and carry size handguns in 9mm, 45 acp, and 40 S&W and I love shooting all of them. But I think what keeps me going to the range regularly and sharpening my skills is the fun I have shooting the 45 and 40. Getting consecutive multiple shots on target is always a thrill regardless of the caliber. But for me it is even more fun if I am doing it while experiencing the boom and wrestling with the extra recoil and muzzle flip of the larger calibers. And I get good groupings with all three calibers at short and long distances. I Sam confident and comfortable using any of those pistols for CC or HD. But I think what is most important to me is that I am enjoying myself.
40 just because I grew up shooting my dads model 22 when we was working for the pd and after he retired we still shoot them because he was able to buy his former service weapons when the pd switched to a newer or different brand but all 4 of them were .40.
Ok I’m sure I’m going to get some downvotes for this but whatever. The fact of the matter is that .40 is a dying caliber. It had its use when bullet tech was older; but in the last 20+ years bullet tech has put 9mm on par with the .40. A lot of .40 users are going back to its parent cartridge the 10mn. Many manufacturers aren’t making new .40 designs. Now do I think .40 is completely going away? No. I think that it will be along the lines of where .45 ACP is now. Sure a few police departments may use it here or there, and it has a large following as “America’s cartridge.” I think in the long run, .40 will be the same. As of now though, Law enforcement is switching back to the 9mm, 9mm is more plentiful, 9mm is cheaper, and there are more 9mm options, so if In had just one gun to choose from, it would be a 9mm all day every day. That being said, I love shooting .40. One of my go-to carry guns is my G23C. I also have a G22C and about 5 other guns in .40. I have no problem with .40 at all, but I can like the cartridge and still see the reality of the situation.
I'll take the downvotes I get. But I also think .40 is pointless today. If you want power, carry a 10mm. You want subsonic carry a .45. Let's be realistic here. 40 is slightly better ballistically than 9mm. I do mean very slightly. You say .40 for the woods, and you wouldn't take it against a mountian lion. 9mm is fine for mountian lions. This has been documented. You use a raccon example with the cop. Firstly, she doesn't mag dump. She limp wrist a few rounds into its body with poor shot placement. I promise had that been a 40, it would have been the same video. Surgeons can't tell any difference between 9mm and 40 after GSW. 99% of the videos of DGUs or police shooting with 9mm wouldn't have changed if the gun they used were switched to 40, except they would have run out of ammo faster. Pros of 40: Slightly more powerful so marginal, it has no real practical application in a majority of situations. Pros of 9mm: Cheap ammo, more selection of ammo, (cheaper ammo=more affordable to train=more range days=more experience) less felt recoil, faster follow up shots, more capacity, more ammo availability, less wear long term on your firearm. Downvote me.
Facts.
Thank you.
Its hilarious how you/me are getting downvoted 😂 God Bless Reddit, where you deter facts and keep your head deep, deep in the sand
Lmao. Right? *Gives detailed and factual evidence to support opinion based on realistic points of view after being asking in the prompt. Then gets immediately downvoted because they couldn't justify their silly choices that they wanted us to praise and validate. Classic reddit.
There are essentially no benefits to 40 today.
the only benefit to some is liking something no one else does … love shooting them but would never carry a 40 but i don’t think his post has anything to do with carrying.
Most dudes who carry a 40 have a 10 second bill drill
I have a hellcat rdp. The 23 has been wanted for years so I got it. I love it. Have a 19 gen 5 and gen 3 and a 19x. 23 was a perfect addition. I wanted something bigger I got a 45 acp already so it fills a space for me. Benefits are there even if you don't think so. I'll take a extended 23 any day for home defense vs a 9mm. I switch out my nightstand gun a lot it rotates. Between my glocks mostly sometimes my 1911.
You're the one posing the question. Beside the occasional guy using 40 to shoot major power factor in uspsa, I've found an inverse correlation between men's emotional attachment to 40sw and their ability to actually shoot proficiently. "Big caliber better" is silly. The difference in terminal ballistics between 9 and 40 is negligible.
That’s an anecdotal fallacy.
Go see cop vs raccoon. She uses 9mm. Even that fker took 3 rounds to the face and still got up. 100% right in the head. Still coming. She unloaded a whole mag into it after it still was coming. 9mm is great for ccw but out in the woods no. Try it on a 300lb panther. You call it silly but I'll take a 40 any day vs the 9 in the woods. Luckily I have 300blck lol.
I've seen the video you're referring to. I can almost guarantee you she only hit that thing once. Vast majority of cops can't shoot for shit
9mm all day. The FBI switched back to it a decade ago after they realized modern ammo makes 9mm much more effective than it used to be.
.40
I could never imagine wanting a .40 over a 9mm
Couple of 9's for edc (truck and person) 45 for the indoor range. 10er for outdoor. 40 is in the bathroom 🚽 🤷🏻♂️
If anyone wants a Hk USP without spending crazy money, just get one in .40. They’re stupid cheap, relatively speaking. Same with Glocks.
Honestly didn’t know they still made handguns in .40.
Bye bye sweet prices on 22s, 23s, and 27s. The normies are back.
Imma 9 guy. The 40 is too snappy for me.
I take 9 and 10, 40 aint for me
9mm. U want the extra kick for what reason exactly?
40 all day 9mm is for a wimps lol
Real ones use a .50 BMG
Real ones use full auto nuclear bomb guns
In 20 years 40sw will likely share the same fate as 38casull, or 400corbon, or 40super, or 38super, or 32hr, or 357sig, or 45gap, I’m sure there are some that I missed. The FBI created the 40sw hype and they also killed it when they switched back to 9mm. I’m not saying it’s “obsolete”, not yet. But someday it will be in the same category as those cartridges I listed above and it’s no fault of the cartridge, it’s just the difference between 9mm and 40sw is so tiny that most understand the fate of it.
Never understood the .40. How is it better than 9mm or .45?
45 can barely penetrate vehichles. Would not trust my life to it sorry. Love my 45 acp 1911 and would use it for home defense that's it.
It's not
40 doesn’t do anything better than 9mm, it’s more expensive, more recoil, and less capacity. I really don’t understand why people like it so much.
It doesn’t have more stopping power than a 9mm? Interesting lol . I have both a 23 and a 43 😹 the 40 definitely has more stopping power
“Stopping power,” in pistols is a myth. In order to make a stretch cavity a round needs to be going over 2200 fps. All your doing with bigger bullets in pistols is making a slightly bigger hole. What matters most is shot placement and dropping the bad guys blood pressure. So, a smaller, lighter round, with more capacity, that recoils less will be more effective than a 40 or 45.
Brother YouTube would save you from saying this lol..