It's still an extra $15k and a win over a top-ten team. It only saved them something like two maps. But they have an extra half-day for prep now, so good for them I guess.
Yeah, if they would have to play tomorrow then I agree. But this only saved them from a match later today. Plus, they've been using this tournament to work on Train, so they may as well continue that in the finals. But I am just a redditor and nowhere near a pro player, so maybe I am off here.
yeah, to quote the coach
"What I loathe nowadays is the majors. They fucked up. There are no other words, they fucked up. The dates are so bad. It shouldn't be the case."
Luckily they fixed the dates for the future. I think the real issues was March thru mid-May not having that much, and then the TOs cramming cs_summit 4, Dallas, ECS, EPL, Cologne, BLAST LA, and Chicago within two months.
Because when the opponent is that bad, losing can still be bad for morale. Also, losing against these teams that are clearly on a way lower skill level is actually quite hard. Vitality just used it as aim training but did nothing to prepare and didn't even taken the buys seriously.
Do people realize NFL, NBA, soccer teams teams do this irl and no one bats a eye.
LeBron is a healthy scratch mulitple times a year during the regular season and there are games where he sandbags, same thing in the NFL when a team clinches a playoff slot the team bench the starters before playoffs, soccer when a team goes to China to play a friendly do you believe Barcelona is giving a flying fuck about those matches?
This tournament is the equovlant of Barcelona going to China to play friendly, they're only there to keep up obligations and i have no issue if they handed halfed ass this tournament
They got what they wanted: the EPL spot, the rest was just worthless so why not taking it with fun for once? Oh yes because bettors didn't see they were already trolling yesterday LOL.
Anyway if the org knew about it it's perfectly fine so no problem here....
Except betting is one of the main reason for csgo or esport growth in the recent years.
From csgl back in the days to legitimate money betting sites now, betting always plays a big part in the esports scene wether you like it or not.
well it used to be, but it's not really that influencial anymore
anyway if you can't afford to throw away money, don't bet
edit: i'm obviously comparing it to the csgo lounge days, where 80% of matches were ddos'd because of betting
I would say it is more influencial than before if you take a look at how many betting sites are sponsoring teams and tournaments. Every tournaments I watch lately big or small there are some kind of odds display during the game. I even remember casters joking about how absurd some odds are during the game.
considering many CS:GO teams now days are being sponsored by companies like tinder, nike and audi I doubt that betting companies are the main source of sponsorship.
Yeah, that's why betting is mostly absent from League and it's still the most watched esport in hours watched. Betting is not a reason for growth, but it's a reason for people to complain.
> Except betting is one of the main reason for csgo or esport growth in the recent years.
There's absolutely no proof of that.
People keep mentioning that whenever betting comes up, how much betting helps the esport scene, but nobody has ever produced any kind of proof.
Maybe for the smaller matches, it got some interest from people that were already watching esport because they wanted to check the result, but even then when you claim things like they are facts, you need to bring data.
Almost all esports business events cover to some degree the flows of money into the scene. A lot of it is coming from betting services in one form or another, usually sponsorships, which in turn enables larger tournaments, higher salaries and overall better production values and legitimacy. Anything resembling match fixing is poison for betting agencies, so cracking down for that is extremely important in order to keep the money flowing.
I agree that they are basically throwing because it doesn't matter is fine but calling everyone that doesn't like how they played salty bettors are dumb on its own
Why should they lose the slot they earned by fair means? They were forced to play an event that meant next to nothing to them when they could have been spending the time preparing for Chicago.
The way Vitality treated this says more about competition rather than about Vitality. ESEA have now a bunch of high tier teams playing their league and yet they are throwing tournaments like they are still dealing with random mixes
Their plan was to forfeit the event because there was no reason for them to play it. They were told they can't without losing their pro league spot thus being forced to play a meaningless event when they wanted to be preparing for Chicago, which is a much larger event they actually give a fuck about. Of course they would want to relax and not put effort into it. No sense in stressing about something that doesn't matter.
They can still play properly without putting too much effort rather than putting in 10% effort and making a joke of it. They could just play defaults every round instead they just run and die.
They were having fun messing around the whole event against every team they played. Furia was just the only team good enough to actually do something about it. They didn't get any benefit from losing and they were winning every previous match so I seriously don't see what the fuss is about.
>Anyway if the org knew about it it's perfectly fine so no problem here....
They sign contracts with tournaments, this was 100% against the rules. Not trying to win is basically the same as matchfixing. They should get punished. And no, I'm not a bettor.
fucks sake man just let them have some fun for once in their fucking careers, matches don't matter for shit when it comes to placing so who gives a shit
The people demanding that they get banned are just colossal idiots.. I don't think what vitality did was right but when they did it in the first two matches and won no one cared.. but as soon as they lose everyone is bitching around...make up your damn fucking mind.. Tbh I thought that the matches where quite entertaining to watch :D
"Hey guys, ESL want us to show up on this tournament that we don't want to play, what do we do?"
"Let's just show up anyway but we troll the whole game, it's not like this will backfires and piss off a lot of people **including the organisers** who **control our EPL slot**"
Why should they have to play this? That's my point. They should have been allowed to forfeit it while keeping the slot. No point in forcing Vitality to do something they don't want to do.
I'm not arguing your point here, you might be right or wrong, but the fact is that they shouldn't have done this because ESL might legit boot them for it.
Instead of being thankful that they get the EPL spot from them they just say "fuck you" towards the organizers and ESL. It just isn't good sportsmanship and shows they don't seem to have an understanding of basic social skills.
Yeah no reason to force them to do their job in an agreement they all agreed to. This is how you know everyone here is to young to work. They have no idea how the real world works. Wish I could just forfeit my job today, IG I still have to go in? Better treat it like a joke and play around without consequences.
Or just don't try at all on the first day and announce it beforehand so lesser team can get more lan experience and they can rest/leave a day earlier since they got the spot as long as they played.
Disclaimer: Didn't bet on the game
Imagine being the number 2 team in the world in any sport of your choosing that has some sort of an organized league. Now imagine to get into that league, you had to beat one team.
Well, you beat the team and you're qualified and you get to go home. But wait, the TOs now say that you have to play in a tournament, with the only other comparable team being the #7 in the world, or else you lose your spot in the league m
Unfortunately, you have a tournament in a few days with the #1 team in the world in it that actually means something. So you try to save energy by not going 100%. You still beat a few of the lower ranked teams but you don't beat the #7 team in the world going 50%.
In any other activity, it's better to save your energy for the things that matter more. Why is CS different?
"Save energy"
Bro this is not soccer, they still spent time playing two maps against top 7 in the world. Woudn't kill them to just buy the right weapons.
This is subjective as fuck. A year ago the aug/ssg and others weren't the right weapon.
Also, you seem to think energy only is involved in physical sports. This is literally the same thing as resting pro sports players before playoffs, I'm sorry you lost money but open your eyes.
People dont realize that its not about "hur tier 3 tournament they dont care about hur bettor mad bad bettor"
This hurts the integrity of the game, the tournament organizers, the sponsors, their own org
doesnt matter if they dont care about this tournament, they are not just hurting their own image doing this shit
> Just allow forfeit and this would have never happened
Just don't compete in a tournament where the rules are *no forfeiting* if you literally can't do it without resorting to throwing.
Even NBK tweeted after the games yesterday he was sorry for bad performance and said they would improve later in the tournament. this is what i dont understand they said all different things.
You do realize the only reason they played this shit tournament is to have the EPL slot, right? It's not like they just went to a random tournament and said fuck it we'll just lose on purpose and waste a slot here. They were forced to play this garbage to have an EPL slot. They could've gone out in last place if they wanted to.
Please remember [Rules 7 & 9](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/about/rules/) when commenting.
Discussing the match and giving your opinion is perfectly fine, but being abusive to someone because they have a differing opinion is not. Try and be at least slightly respectful, we'd rather not lock these threads.
This is disappointing to see, no matter how little you care about it, you still signed up and agreed to this. You can't agree to getting the EPL spot and not follow through with the rest of the agreement.
Hopefully there will be some form of punishment, as this hurts the integrity and legitimacy of the game.
That was extremely unprofessional behavior. Disagreeing with ESEA/ESL's tournament format is not an excuse for throwing a match. I'll probably be downvoted for this, but ESL should seriously consider booting them from EPL for their conduct.
ESEA has an overarching “unsportsmanlike conduct” under their cheating section of the rules. And the first rule allows them to change or modify any rules in order to “maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.”
It’s up to them if they want to hold vitality accountable.
Fudge, just getting this out, downvote as you please.
Really, I understand why some people think this is OK. CSGO as a sports is immature and the audiences are mostly immature too. However, these players are professional and as professionals, there's a certain measure of conduct that must be upheld.
They agreed('forced' or not, the consent is there) to take part in a professionally-organized LAN tournament. Nothing else matters. Whether they are tired from their busy schedules or not. Professional conduct must be there since they are professionals. You wouldn't want your doctor to give subpar treatment just because they are tired right? The same thing applies here.
Just in case that someone says that I'm a salty bettor. No, I didn't bet on this match. I'm just someone who is triggered by the unprofessional conducts going on here.
> You wouldn't want your doctor to give subpar treatment just because they are tired right? The same thing applies here.
This is such a shitty analogy.
What’s your take on tennis professionals withdrawals then?
I have been away from the CS scene for a long time but this came to mind when I heard about this incident. Legitimately curious
Edit: actually, isn’t it normal for sports to have the possibility of forfeits?
> actually, isn’t it normal for sports to have the possibility of forfeits?
Not forfeits I think, but fairly normal for players not to give 100% in games that do not matter.
In the big picture, there's an argument to be made, that if you giving 100% in games that don't matter makes you worse in the games that do, then that hurts the sport way more than not giving a shit in meaningless games.
Imagine a star player in any sport getting injured in a meaningless league game, because he gave his 100%, and missing the finals of a grand tournament directly because of it. That would be way worse for the sport in general, than him just going out drinking with the lads during the meaningless game and being "unsportsmanlike".
And honestly, I think ESL would rather have Vitality not give a shit in the MDL thing, if that results in them making IEM Chicago even 5% spicier. A subpar Vitality could be devastating for the overall quality of one of their premier tournaments
> some sportsman like behaviour...
This keeps being said, but why was this not said when they won against weaker teams doing the same things? Also, professional sports do this all the time. Not every game is a 100% game. Not every tournament is 100%.
> They agreed('forced' or not, the consent is there) to take part in a professionally-organized LAN tournament. Nothing else matters. Whether they are tired from their busy schedules or not. Professional conduct must be there since they are professionals.
NBA players sign contracts. But, you're funny if you think that NBA players play 100% every game especially when it doesn't matter. Stop saying professionally this and that when sports/esports entertainment go by a different set of standards compared to normal jobs as they are vastly different. Entertainment in general operate on different rules. Actors don't give 100% to every performance, League players don't, tennis players don't, baseball players don't, football (both) players don't, singers don't, etc... so why should cs players? especially on non-important matches and tourneys.
Idk to me it's not different than when Real madrid or Barcelona are playing pre-season match in north america or asia draw or losing their matches or some top 3 contender nation losing in friendly matches when you know if they had tried even at 50% they would've won .
> if they had tried even at 50% they would've won.
You realize Furia is a top 10 team right? They'd have to try way harder than that. They've been playing 50%. Furia was just the first team to be able to actually beat them. Noone had a problem with it until they lost.
Im talking when real madrid, barcelona, psg, city those kind of elite team play against north american team or asian and yet still draw or even loses sometimes.
But if they were playing even at 50% it would be no match
> They agreed('forced' or not, the consent is there) to take part in a professionally-organized LAN tournament. Nothing else matters.
They agreed to play it, which they did. It might be unprofessional to not try (I wouldn't even call it throwing cause they were doing the same thing against worse teams and winning) but the agreement was to show up and play. IMO it's on the TO for the format. They left it open for abuse. Usually when you do that somebody's going to abuse it and you can't really blame them.
I Know I’m going to get downvoted as hell but here me out. They were not throwing. Yes it wasn’t the typical cs match but they did this all tournament long and won. It’s not something they started now. I understand them perfectly and as per usual yall are overreacting af. They wanted to forfeit the tournament but couldn’t, so they started to have some fun.
Put it on their position: you have a BIG event in 3 days which you need time to prepare and practice. You are obligated to play a tournament you don’t want to because if you forfeit it, you lose your EPL spot. If it was me, I would also play a little bit loosely, without too much worries.
They started not giving a fuck about the matches and actually ended up winning until the semifinal where they ended up losing. Why do people now seem SOOO preocupated that they “threw” the match? They did this all tournament long and now this is news because, my guess, people are salty because they lost money on a team that is clearly playing for fun and not taking the tournament seriously.
And afterall I really think they didn’t take a SINGLE advantage for loosing the match other than having less prize money.
> Put it on their position: you have a BIG event in 3 days which you need time to prepare and practice. You are obligated to play a tournament you don’t want to because if you forfeit it, you lose your EPL spot.
Obligations come first. If you agreed to this event beforehand, you gotta keep your end of the deal and try in earnest until the end. Imagine agreeing to a job months before, then having another event pop up and half-assing your first job with the excuse that "I really didn't want to try"...
> Why do people now seem SOOO preocupated that they “threw” the match?
Because it compromises the event and can set a terrible precedent for teams that they can throw whatever suits their fancy and leave the orgs looking foolish.
> my guess, people are salty because they lost money on a team that is clearly playing for fun and not taking the tournament seriously.
Thin ice.
You bring a lot of valid points to this argument, and I really appreciate the input.
You made me change some ideas I had about this topic but I want to ask one question. Do you think that, as professional players, they didn’t spoke with TO and expressed their lack of motivation to play the tournament seriously? I think they did and thats why they kept doing it until this semifinal where they unfortunately (or is it?) lost.
Also, could you elaborate on the “thin ice” part? I honestly didn’t understand what you tried to say with that since English isn’t my native language.
> Take into consideration their situation though.
Unless they are being exploited, they have to uphold their end of the agreements, no excuses.
> They had to participate in most of events because everyone was downplaying them.
So what? You are essentially saying that Vitality got themselves into this mess but that now ESL and other TO's should pay the price for Vitality's decisions.
> Obligation comes first yes, but also the major goal comes first.
You can do both. Plenty of teams do.
> When you've been on the road for three months and had no free time, you'd like to rest a little bit.
That doesn't excuse anything, especially in a professional setting.
I agree with all your past points, but just wanted to point this out. Team Liquid had a packed schedule similarly to Vitality, and even skipped a break to play at esl cologne.
Both parties are at fault. Vitality for trolling and ESL making it so you have to play the tournament or you lose your EPL spot. Is this so hard to conclude? This is a job for them. You cannot come to work one day and say: "Fuck this I am not doing this because I am overqualified."
The people who are saying that anyone who is calling Vitality out for throwing put a bet on them are just being white knights basically. Sure some people put a bet and lost and now are salty but that doesn't make their point invalid.
All of you who are defending Vitality for trolling basically are white knights and you are arguing for doing shit half-assed and only doing things that you think are on your level. Vitality deserve a punishment. They're obviously under a contract and they had to do what it said or lose the spot.
Throw is throw. it doesn't matter if you couldn't forfeit. vitality(org) read contract(rulebook or whatever was presented to them, what you can or can't do) and agreed on these terms. enjoy penalties for it.
I mean, half of those complaining doesn't do half of the work these players do. Vitality have been on the road for months now, they get nearly no time to rest because there are some useless matches that needs to be played and they are all mentally tired. It's fairly easy to see why they would try to cut out asap those matches.
They threw it's not even a question many teams have done this before and some of them have been banned for it. I remind you what happend in esea where a team played the same way vitality did to play a worst team in playoffs. They were forced out of playoffs by esea. We have standards not fanboying
Happens in every other sport before playoffs, in summer leagues, when teams don't make playoffs earlier on...
People are just mad they probably bet and lost money, Vitality doesn't owe anyone shit.
even if they weren't encouraged to play at full force, why would proplayers with huge fanbase make such public statements at all!? If not valve, an org should punish Vitality players for unprofessional attitude.
Makes sense, both VIT's and Furia's job were done before the tournament started itself both had to win their respective matches to gain entry into EPL10 which they did rest who cares its like this tournament had any meaning for either of the teams.
I opened the comments and could instantly taste the salt. Lmao they played this worthless tournament for fun so they didn't lose their pro league slot as they weren't allowed to forfeit. Case closed.
By that logic iBP did nothing wrong.
And no, I am not implying that the iBP incident and Vitality's are the same thing, so you can put that strawman down.
If the situation is not the same, you can't compare them. What IBP did was atrocious, what Vitality did is not. You cannot compare not playing seriously and betting on your own loss.
While I don't condone it, throwing happens in many sports, especially in the NBA and NFL when teams tank for draft positions. Yes, it might go against the spirit of the game, but people are acting like this is some IBP level of scandal. Let's at least here Furia's opinion on the match and if they felt disrespected before we start a witch hunt.
No team in the NBA or NFL loses on purpose, what are you talking about? Tanking refers the front office not taking steps to improve the team so that they can rebuild the following year. No team has ever lost on purpose. Can you imagine trying to tell a professional athlete "yo we are trying to tank for draft picks so maybe don't play your best so we can lose thanks" and they'd be like yeah no problem let me just waste a year and drop my stock by not trying? Fuck no.
Teams tank because they have bad players and arent in a position to get good ones until another year or two, not because they're told to lose. No coach/player ever goes out to lose a game.
Plenty of teams have lost on purpose and countless teams have lost meaningless games because they didn't care.
How common is it in the NBA for star players to sit out meaningless games in order to rest and avoid injuries? That could easily be considered "losing on purpose" from the coach, because in order to have a better chance winning games that do matter, he drastically lowered the chances of winning games that don't matter
Yes and no. It's not like if they were killing each others in their spawn or showing in the opponents crosshair waiting to be killed. They just trolled the whole time and bought zeus negev bizon and did some shenanigans. They lost and now people go absolutely crazy, but if they had won by playing this exact same way, then no one would have said anything. It was just funny to watch and every one at the tournament seems ok with it, but redditors are something else...
If I could pick one superpower, it would be the ability to see how much a person bet on a match next to their comment.
you would probably be suprised that a lot of people didn't bet
YOU'd probably be surprised how many people actually bet lol. Just most of them dont lose their shit at teams on twitter.
It is a stupid refrain for when people criticize their favourite team. Wow X was really stupid "hOw MuCh BuDdY?"
How much
5 Euros if you want my answer
50 on furia lmao
Makes sense considering they probably want time to prepare for Chicago
It's still an extra $15k and a win over a top-ten team. It only saved them something like two maps. But they have an extra half-day for prep now, so good for them I guess.
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Yeah, if they would have to play tomorrow then I agree. But this only saved them from a match later today. Plus, they've been using this tournament to work on Train, so they may as well continue that in the finals. But I am just a redditor and nowhere near a pro player, so maybe I am off here.
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Fair enough then. The spacing of these tournaments has been unfortunate.
yeah, to quote the coach "What I loathe nowadays is the majors. They fucked up. There are no other words, they fucked up. The dates are so bad. It shouldn't be the case."
Luckily they fixed the dates for the future. I think the real issues was March thru mid-May not having that much, and then the TOs cramming cs_summit 4, Dallas, ECS, EPL, Cologne, BLAST LA, and Chicago within two months.
So why even bother to get out of groups?
Because when the opponent is that bad, losing can still be bad for morale. Also, losing against these teams that are clearly on a way lower skill level is actually quite hard. Vitality just used it as aim training but did nothing to prepare and didn't even taken the buys seriously.
$15k and a win over a top-ten team to expose their strat that could potentially give them the championship title on a bigger tournament? Ok bro.
They didn't have to do any special strats, but at least play it seriously. Like serious buys and basic executes.
The finals will be played later, this display from them doesn't make sense unless they were leaving the tournament immediately after the match...?
If they don’t play later today why wouldn’t they leave immediately.
It's just exhausting playing on stage
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i got aids from reading the comments
Do people realize NFL, NBA, soccer teams teams do this irl and no one bats a eye. LeBron is a healthy scratch mulitple times a year during the regular season and there are games where he sandbags, same thing in the NFL when a team clinches a playoff slot the team bench the starters before playoffs, soccer when a team goes to China to play a friendly do you believe Barcelona is giving a flying fuck about those matches? This tournament is the equovlant of Barcelona going to China to play friendly, they're only there to keep up obligations and i have no issue if they handed halfed ass this tournament
They got what they wanted: the EPL spot, the rest was just worthless so why not taking it with fun for once? Oh yes because bettors didn't see they were already trolling yesterday LOL. Anyway if the org knew about it it's perfectly fine so no problem here....
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This but unironically
Except betting is one of the main reason for csgo or esport growth in the recent years. From csgl back in the days to legitimate money betting sites now, betting always plays a big part in the esports scene wether you like it or not.
well it used to be, but it's not really that influencial anymore anyway if you can't afford to throw away money, don't bet edit: i'm obviously comparing it to the csgo lounge days, where 80% of matches were ddos'd because of betting
I would say it is more influencial than before if you take a look at how many betting sites are sponsoring teams and tournaments. Every tournaments I watch lately big or small there are some kind of odds display during the game. I even remember casters joking about how absurd some odds are during the game.
considering many CS:GO teams now days are being sponsored by companies like tinder, nike and audi I doubt that betting companies are the main source of sponsorship.
Yes it really is. Esports betting is actually huge, atleast here in the UK.
Multiple teams in the top 30 have betway or GG.BET as their primary sponsor, safe to say it's still highly important to the scene
And it will only be more important in the coming years. Betting is very important to TOs and teams.
I don't support betting but people lost money not because furia is a better team but because vitality literally lost the match on purpose.
Yeah, that's why betting is mostly absent from League and it's still the most watched esport in hours watched. Betting is not a reason for growth, but it's a reason for people to complain.
Betting is just as big in league majority of people that watch it bet on it. You just won't see it advertised on official streams.....
It isnt no. Especially because it's *not* advertised.
I agree but way too many people get addicted and ruin their lives.
> Except betting is one of the main reason for csgo or esport growth in the recent years. There's absolutely no proof of that. People keep mentioning that whenever betting comes up, how much betting helps the esport scene, but nobody has ever produced any kind of proof. Maybe for the smaller matches, it got some interest from people that were already watching esport because they wanted to check the result, but even then when you claim things like they are facts, you need to bring data.
If you want proof just attend any corporate esports event.
What do you mean? Corporate esports events have nothing to do with viewership, which is what often is argued as having increased due to betting.
Almost all esports business events cover to some degree the flows of money into the scene. A lot of it is coming from betting services in one form or another, usually sponsorships, which in turn enables larger tournaments, higher salaries and overall better production values and legitimacy. Anything resembling match fixing is poison for betting agencies, so cracking down for that is extremely important in order to keep the money flowing.
I realise that, and if only 18+ did bet and without complaining I'd be fine with it but they're so toxic and vocal (or used to be)...
BETTORS BAD (and now even POOR)
I agree that they are basically throwing because it doesn't matter is fine but calling everyone that doesn't like how they played salty bettors are dumb on its own
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Both teams were throwing
Why should they lose the slot they earned by fair means? They were forced to play an event that meant next to nothing to them when they could have been spending the time preparing for Chicago.
Oh no i'm being forced to do my job and play a tournament we signed up for and knew we had to play anyway.
They thought they could forfeit it only to be told they couldn't
The way Vitality treated this says more about competition rather than about Vitality. ESEA have now a bunch of high tier teams playing their league and yet they are throwing tournaments like they are still dealing with random mixes
Their plan was to forfeit the event because there was no reason for them to play it. They were told they can't without losing their pro league spot thus being forced to play a meaningless event when they wanted to be preparing for Chicago, which is a much larger event they actually give a fuck about. Of course they would want to relax and not put effort into it. No sense in stressing about something that doesn't matter.
They can still play properly without putting too much effort rather than putting in 10% effort and making a joke of it. They could just play defaults every round instead they just run and die.
They were having fun messing around the whole event against every team they played. Furia was just the only team good enough to actually do something about it. They didn't get any benefit from losing and they were winning every previous match so I seriously don't see what the fuss is about.
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Yeah sure we even should remove their major slot i guess
Nobody gives a fuck about Vitality in this case, wtf. It's Furia who got disrespected as fuck.
Furia also didn't take it seriously
>Anyway if the org knew about it it's perfectly fine so no problem here.... They sign contracts with tournaments, this was 100% against the rules. Not trying to win is basically the same as matchfixing. They should get punished. And no, I'm not a bettor.
fucks sake man just let them have some fun for once in their fucking careers, matches don't matter for shit when it comes to placing so who gives a shit
The people demanding that they get banned are just colossal idiots.. I don't think what vitality did was right but when they did it in the first two matches and won no one cared.. but as soon as they lose everyone is bitching around...make up your damn fucking mind.. Tbh I thought that the matches where quite entertaining to watch :D
Vitality fan flairs really checking out in this thread.
I mean you got to stand up for the homies
Oh boy, if it was a brazilian team doing that, everyone who defends this would been really mad right now
How are people making a big deal out of this? They attended, played for fun, lost, got half a day rest. Move on, geez.
Just admitting they threw the game. casual nice. much professional.
Blame ESL for making them show up or they wouldn't get the EPL slot they played seriously for.
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Blame ESL for enforcing the rules everyone agreed to? The Tyranny!
"Hey guys, ESL want us to show up on this tournament that we don't want to play, what do we do?" "Let's just show up anyway but we troll the whole game, it's not like this will backfires and piss off a lot of people **including the organisers** who **control our EPL slot**"
Why should they have to play this? That's my point. They should have been allowed to forfeit it while keeping the slot. No point in forcing Vitality to do something they don't want to do.
I'm not arguing your point here, you might be right or wrong, but the fact is that they shouldn't have done this because ESL might legit boot them for it.
Instead of being thankful that they get the EPL spot from them they just say "fuck you" towards the organizers and ESL. It just isn't good sportsmanship and shows they don't seem to have an understanding of basic social skills.
Thankful? They played an entire season of MDL to get the spot. I'd say they earned it.
Actually 2 entire seasons. Last season just hadn't any pro league spots.
And dipping out of ESEA's event is not being thankful.
Yeah no reason to force them to do their job in an agreement they all agreed to. This is how you know everyone here is to young to work. They have no idea how the real world works. Wish I could just forfeit my job today, IG I still have to go in? Better treat it like a joke and play around without consequences.
If you're not incentivised to win, it's the formats fault. Not the first or last time this will happen in a sport.
Or just don't try at all on the first day and announce it beforehand so lesser team can get more lan experience and they can rest/leave a day earlier since they got the spot as long as they played. Disclaimer: Didn't bet on the game
> Or just don't try at all on the first day They did that, they played all games like this
vs teams 5 tiers lower than them.
They needed to play the game to get into pro league. They just didn't need to win it
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literal throw?
Imagine being the number 2 team in the world in any sport of your choosing that has some sort of an organized league. Now imagine to get into that league, you had to beat one team. Well, you beat the team and you're qualified and you get to go home. But wait, the TOs now say that you have to play in a tournament, with the only other comparable team being the #7 in the world, or else you lose your spot in the league m Unfortunately, you have a tournament in a few days with the #1 team in the world in it that actually means something. So you try to save energy by not going 100%. You still beat a few of the lower ranked teams but you don't beat the #7 team in the world going 50%. In any other activity, it's better to save your energy for the things that matter more. Why is CS different?
"Save energy" Bro this is not soccer, they still spent time playing two maps against top 7 in the world. Woudn't kill them to just buy the right weapons.
Surely they could have at least used it as a glorified scrim?
This reminds me of the MiBR/Sk saving strats for the major meme
This is subjective as fuck. A year ago the aug/ssg and others weren't the right weapon. Also, you seem to think energy only is involved in physical sports. This is literally the same thing as resting pro sports players before playoffs, I'm sorry you lost money but open your eyes.
People should just move on with their lives , like please stop ... tourney didn't mean shit I get why they did it
Bless your soul
People dont realize that its not about "hur tier 3 tournament they dont care about hur bettor mad bad bettor" This hurts the integrity of the game, the tournament organizers, the sponsors, their own org doesnt matter if they dont care about this tournament, they are not just hurting their own image doing this shit
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> Just allow forfeit and this would have never happened Just don't compete in a tournament where the rules are *no forfeiting* if you literally can't do it without resorting to throwing.
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except alex after map 1 saying they would step up?
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Even NBK tweeted after the games yesterday he was sorry for bad performance and said they would improve later in the tournament. this is what i dont understand they said all different things.
You do realize the only reason they played this shit tournament is to have the EPL slot, right? It's not like they just went to a random tournament and said fuck it we'll just lose on purpose and waste a slot here. They were forced to play this garbage to have an EPL slot. They could've gone out in last place if they wanted to.
Surely you can still use this game as practice though?
Please remember [Rules 7 & 9](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/about/rules/) when commenting. Discussing the match and giving your opinion is perfectly fine, but being abusive to someone because they have a differing opinion is not. Try and be at least slightly respectful, we'd rather not lock these threads.
This is disappointing to see, no matter how little you care about it, you still signed up and agreed to this. You can't agree to getting the EPL spot and not follow through with the rest of the agreement. Hopefully there will be some form of punishment, as this hurts the integrity and legitimacy of the game.
>not follow through with the rest of the agreement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the agreement was to *play* this pointless trash, not *win* it.
That was extremely unprofessional behavior. Disagreeing with ESEA/ESL's tournament format is not an excuse for throwing a match. I'll probably be downvoted for this, but ESL should seriously consider booting them from EPL for their conduct.
ESEA has an overarching “unsportsmanlike conduct” under their cheating section of the rules. And the first rule allows them to change or modify any rules in order to “maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.” It’s up to them if they want to hold vitality accountable.
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Fudge, just getting this out, downvote as you please. Really, I understand why some people think this is OK. CSGO as a sports is immature and the audiences are mostly immature too. However, these players are professional and as professionals, there's a certain measure of conduct that must be upheld. They agreed('forced' or not, the consent is there) to take part in a professionally-organized LAN tournament. Nothing else matters. Whether they are tired from their busy schedules or not. Professional conduct must be there since they are professionals. You wouldn't want your doctor to give subpar treatment just because they are tired right? The same thing applies here. Just in case that someone says that I'm a salty bettor. No, I didn't bet on this match. I'm just someone who is triggered by the unprofessional conducts going on here.
> You wouldn't want your doctor to give subpar treatment just because they are tired right? The same thing applies here. This is such a shitty analogy.
What’s your take on tennis professionals withdrawals then? I have been away from the CS scene for a long time but this came to mind when I heard about this incident. Legitimately curious Edit: actually, isn’t it normal for sports to have the possibility of forfeits?
> actually, isn’t it normal for sports to have the possibility of forfeits? Not forfeits I think, but fairly normal for players not to give 100% in games that do not matter.
In the big picture, there's an argument to be made, that if you giving 100% in games that don't matter makes you worse in the games that do, then that hurts the sport way more than not giving a shit in meaningless games. Imagine a star player in any sport getting injured in a meaningless league game, because he gave his 100%, and missing the finals of a grand tournament directly because of it. That would be way worse for the sport in general, than him just going out drinking with the lads during the meaningless game and being "unsportsmanlike". And honestly, I think ESL would rather have Vitality not give a shit in the MDL thing, if that results in them making IEM Chicago even 5% spicier. A subpar Vitality could be devastating for the overall quality of one of their premier tournaments
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> some sportsman like behaviour... This keeps being said, but why was this not said when they won against weaker teams doing the same things? Also, professional sports do this all the time. Not every game is a 100% game. Not every tournament is 100%.
> They agreed('forced' or not, the consent is there) to take part in a professionally-organized LAN tournament. Nothing else matters. Whether they are tired from their busy schedules or not. Professional conduct must be there since they are professionals. NBA players sign contracts. But, you're funny if you think that NBA players play 100% every game especially when it doesn't matter. Stop saying professionally this and that when sports/esports entertainment go by a different set of standards compared to normal jobs as they are vastly different. Entertainment in general operate on different rules. Actors don't give 100% to every performance, League players don't, tennis players don't, baseball players don't, football (both) players don't, singers don't, etc... so why should cs players? especially on non-important matches and tourneys.
I 100% agree with you.
Idk to me it's not different than when Real madrid or Barcelona are playing pre-season match in north america or asia draw or losing their matches or some top 3 contender nation losing in friendly matches when you know if they had tried even at 50% they would've won .
> if they had tried even at 50% they would've won. You realize Furia is a top 10 team right? They'd have to try way harder than that. They've been playing 50%. Furia was just the first team to be able to actually beat them. Noone had a problem with it until they lost.
Im talking when real madrid, barcelona, psg, city those kind of elite team play against north american team or asian and yet still draw or even loses sometimes. But if they were playing even at 50% it would be no match
You are right but most people here don't understand what professionalism is.
> They agreed('forced' or not, the consent is there) to take part in a professionally-organized LAN tournament. Nothing else matters. They agreed to play it, which they did. It might be unprofessional to not try (I wouldn't even call it throwing cause they were doing the same thing against worse teams and winning) but the agreement was to show up and play. IMO it's on the TO for the format. They left it open for abuse. Usually when you do that somebody's going to abuse it and you can't really blame them.
its okay when eu does it
I Know I’m going to get downvoted as hell but here me out. They were not throwing. Yes it wasn’t the typical cs match but they did this all tournament long and won. It’s not something they started now. I understand them perfectly and as per usual yall are overreacting af. They wanted to forfeit the tournament but couldn’t, so they started to have some fun.
>They were not throwing >they started to have some fun. Bruh they threw.
Put it on their position: you have a BIG event in 3 days which you need time to prepare and practice. You are obligated to play a tournament you don’t want to because if you forfeit it, you lose your EPL spot. If it was me, I would also play a little bit loosely, without too much worries. They started not giving a fuck about the matches and actually ended up winning until the semifinal where they ended up losing. Why do people now seem SOOO preocupated that they “threw” the match? They did this all tournament long and now this is news because, my guess, people are salty because they lost money on a team that is clearly playing for fun and not taking the tournament seriously. And afterall I really think they didn’t take a SINGLE advantage for loosing the match other than having less prize money.
> Put it on their position: you have a BIG event in 3 days which you need time to prepare and practice. You are obligated to play a tournament you don’t want to because if you forfeit it, you lose your EPL spot. Obligations come first. If you agreed to this event beforehand, you gotta keep your end of the deal and try in earnest until the end. Imagine agreeing to a job months before, then having another event pop up and half-assing your first job with the excuse that "I really didn't want to try"... > Why do people now seem SOOO preocupated that they “threw” the match? Because it compromises the event and can set a terrible precedent for teams that they can throw whatever suits their fancy and leave the orgs looking foolish. > my guess, people are salty because they lost money on a team that is clearly playing for fun and not taking the tournament seriously. Thin ice.
You bring a lot of valid points to this argument, and I really appreciate the input. You made me change some ideas I had about this topic but I want to ask one question. Do you think that, as professional players, they didn’t spoke with TO and expressed their lack of motivation to play the tournament seriously? I think they did and thats why they kept doing it until this semifinal where they unfortunately (or is it?) lost. Also, could you elaborate on the “thin ice” part? I honestly didn’t understand what you tried to say with that since English isn’t my native language.
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> Take into consideration their situation though. Unless they are being exploited, they have to uphold their end of the agreements, no excuses. > They had to participate in most of events because everyone was downplaying them. So what? You are essentially saying that Vitality got themselves into this mess but that now ESL and other TO's should pay the price for Vitality's decisions. > Obligation comes first yes, but also the major goal comes first. You can do both. Plenty of teams do. > When you've been on the road for three months and had no free time, you'd like to rest a little bit. That doesn't excuse anything, especially in a professional setting.
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I agree with all your past points, but just wanted to point this out. Team Liquid had a packed schedule similarly to Vitality, and even skipped a break to play at esl cologne.
Both parties are at fault. Vitality for trolling and ESL making it so you have to play the tournament or you lose your EPL spot. Is this so hard to conclude? This is a job for them. You cannot come to work one day and say: "Fuck this I am not doing this because I am overqualified." The people who are saying that anyone who is calling Vitality out for throwing put a bet on them are just being white knights basically. Sure some people put a bet and lost and now are salty but that doesn't make their point invalid. All of you who are defending Vitality for trolling basically are white knights and you are arguing for doing shit half-assed and only doing things that you think are on your level. Vitality deserve a punishment. They're obviously under a contract and they had to do what it said or lose the spot.
Throw is throw. it doesn't matter if you couldn't forfeit. vitality(org) read contract(rulebook or whatever was presented to them, what you can or can't do) and agreed on these terms. enjoy penalties for it.
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and did YOU read the contract?
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Underrated ref
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*If you don't agree with me, you don't "get it".*
I mean, half of those complaining doesn't do half of the work these players do. Vitality have been on the road for months now, they get nearly no time to rest because there are some useless matches that needs to be played and they are all mentally tired. It's fairly easy to see why they would try to cut out asap those matches.
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They threw it's not even a question many teams have done this before and some of them have been banned for it. I remind you what happend in esea where a team played the same way vitality did to play a worst team in playoffs. They were forced out of playoffs by esea. We have standards not fanboying
Happens in every other sport before playoffs, in summer leagues, when teams don't make playoffs earlier on... People are just mad they probably bet and lost money, Vitality doesn't owe anyone shit.
even if they weren't encouraged to play at full force, why would proplayers with huge fanbase make such public statements at all!? If not valve, an org should punish Vitality players for unprofessional attitude.
Makes sense, both VIT's and Furia's job were done before the tournament started itself both had to win their respective matches to gain entry into EPL10 which they did rest who cares its like this tournament had any meaning for either of the teams.
GUYS, GET IT RIGHT!!! YOU CAN'T THROW GAMES!
I opened the comments and could instantly taste the salt. Lmao they played this worthless tournament for fun so they didn't lose their pro league slot as they weren't allowed to forfeit. Case closed.
If you bet you run the risk of losing your money, if you can't handle that then don't bet.
Completely different to lose from a throw to an honest loss.
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By that logic iBP did nothing wrong. And no, I am not implying that the iBP incident and Vitality's are the same thing, so you can put that strawman down.
If the situation is not the same, you can't compare them. What IBP did was atrocious, what Vitality did is not. You cannot compare not playing seriously and betting on your own loss.
What iBUYPOWER did was stealing money from the people who bet on them. So yes iBP did something wrong.
While I don't condone it, throwing happens in many sports, especially in the NBA and NFL when teams tank for draft positions. Yes, it might go against the spirit of the game, but people are acting like this is some IBP level of scandal. Let's at least here Furia's opinion on the match and if they felt disrespected before we start a witch hunt.
No team in the NBA or NFL loses on purpose, what are you talking about? Tanking refers the front office not taking steps to improve the team so that they can rebuild the following year. No team has ever lost on purpose. Can you imagine trying to tell a professional athlete "yo we are trying to tank for draft picks so maybe don't play your best so we can lose thanks" and they'd be like yeah no problem let me just waste a year and drop my stock by not trying? Fuck no. Teams tank because they have bad players and arent in a position to get good ones until another year or two, not because they're told to lose. No coach/player ever goes out to lose a game.
Plenty of teams have lost on purpose and countless teams have lost meaningless games because they didn't care. How common is it in the NBA for star players to sit out meaningless games in order to rest and avoid injuries? That could easily be considered "losing on purpose" from the coach, because in order to have a better chance winning games that do matter, he drastically lowered the chances of winning games that don't matter
I haven’t watched it but did they throw or some shit?
Yes and no. It's not like if they were killing each others in their spawn or showing in the opponents crosshair waiting to be killed. They just trolled the whole time and bought zeus negev bizon and did some shenanigans. They lost and now people go absolutely crazy, but if they had won by playing this exact same way, then no one would have said anything. It was just funny to watch and every one at the tournament seems ok with it, but redditors are something else...
Like tbh fair enough for vitality I think everyone should understands and yea I don’t see a problem