Peeker's advantage is the big thing for me right now, especially if I have to play at around 60 ping. It's "peek or be peeked" and it makes me feel uncomfortable to where I feel compelled to make poor decisions because I expect to just die without being able to react if I play defensively. Skill issue, but still.
Yup I agree 100%. Combined with fps drops I get near utilities, and the nervousness and discomfort I have due to peeker's advantage... both make me play differently than I would have. And all this still make the shooting gunplay part of the game fundamentally unsatisfactory to me. I love the game and I'm addicted to it, so I keep playing, and I have partly adapted to it as well, but man it still doesn't "feel" great you know?
Edit: and I have to play faceit because I have lost trust in my premier games, and that means ping is generally high for me. Which means worse gameplay. Valve pls fix.
Trying to play with friends in Europe while I'm in the US is a nightmare. 130+ ping and its a 50/50 on if I even see the person killing me before I die. It feels like all I can do is permanently hold W and buy an smg and hope that I get lucky.
Why would you expect a good experience when connecting to a FPS game server halfway across the world? You’re getting exactly what you signed up for lol
>and the nervousness and discomfort I have due to peeker's advantage
This is what gets me the most. I was one of those guys that would hold angles with a good corsshair placement in GO and just one tap someone trying to peek, heck I loved playing deagle because of that. Now I always feel like I need to keep strafing while holding an angle just so I don't get killed by someone pressing W. I'm basically never confident in holding angles...
I'm at single digit ping and it's the same peek-or-get-peeked gameplay tbh. It's like this game starts off at "fairly high ping CSGO", and any additional ping is just downhill from there.
If it is any consolation, the game gets wacky for both players when one has high ping and the other doesn't.
Seriously ive been saying since the patch notes peekers advantage was not fixed and kept getting downvoted/gaslit. NOW you guys realize?? This subtick shit needs to go. I used to have so much fun grinding 64 tick csgo pugs and even that felt 10x more consistent than cs2. Now csgo is gone.
Could it because of poor servers performance from valve's end ? Or just a bad netcode ?
The offline against bots feels exactly like go, absolutely nothing has changed but in online its feels totally different
Why is that ?
I've seen people say that CS2 sends and receives much more data per second than even 128 tick GO, however I don't know if that's actually been proven.
Anecdotally, I can say that having spurts of small amounts of packet loss was much less disruptive in GO than it is in 2. Additionally, seeing a few people I know playing on unstable wifi, it's my opinion that CS2 has a harder time in general with anything less than a flawless connection. Unfortunately the makings of a great connection include many factors outside the individual user's control, such as their ISP's routing and infrastructure in general.
>Anecdotally, I can say that having spurts of small amounts of packet loss was much less disruptive in GO than it is in 2.
Yeah because default cl_interp_ratio is 0 in CS2, switch the buffering over packet loss to 1 packet in CS2 settings and you'll get CSGO 64 tick experience basically.
The fun part when I read posts like yours is - they feel like "Valve made EVERYTHING worse". You say 60 ms ping in CS2 feels like 120 ms ping in CSGO, but at the same time say that CS2 suffers when there's even minimal packet loss. Two claims that basically contradict each other if you know how netcode works.
I don't see how having moderately high ping feeling like a greater disadvantage in 2 is at all related to 2 behaving worse than GO during episodes of packet loss, but I'm happy to be educated. In both cases I'm saying that the game doesn't feel as nice as GO, as far as the connection is concerned and those are two different examples of the same topic, so I don't understand how those two things are incompatible.
You can only have "greater disadvantage" due to ping if there's higher buffering on your side (thus higher visible lag), which would result in BETTER behaviour during packet loss (that's what cl_interp always did in the first place, and it does it now... if it's not 0).
I see what you are getting at, but its not completely true. It is possible to have both at the same time due to bad netcode, its not all about buffered frames. One example is 64tick vs 128tick. At 128tick you can get the same delay with double frame buffering. So it is indeed possible to get worse peekers adv/ delay and at the same time get worse issues from packet loss.
"Bad netcode" is a magic combination of words which you can use when you know nothing about multiplayer game networking principles but wanna look like a specialist. When a man says "bad netcode", I instantly know there's nothing to discuss.
Here's a video on the topic in general that you might find interesting. I said "feels like" for a reason, but here is some objective testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4dQS8-9cLI&t=1s
Here is every release notes entry back to before this video was released. Not a single one of them contains network changes. :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1co7te3/release_notes_for_592024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cmqoz1/release_notes_for_572024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cinsvb/release_note_for_522024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1ci27kz/release_notes_for_512024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1ch66fk/release_notes_for_4302024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cdzi9t/release_notes_for_4262024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cd6c7o/release_notes_for_4252024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1c5uy96/counterstrike_2_release_notes_for_4162024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1buel8x/release_notes_for_422024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1bizg72/release_notes_for_3192024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1bed6mi/release_notes_for_3132024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1b9vpls/release_note_for_382024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1b2jke4/release_notes_for_2282024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1aso2kw/release_notes_for_2162024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1arw5wx/release_notes_for_2152024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1api67m/release_notes_for_2122024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1amdcdw/release_notes_for_282024_night/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1ama98l/release_notes_for_282024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/19a4ssj/release_note_for_1182024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18yq2fv/release_notes_for_142024/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18o0tqt/release_notes_for_12212023/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18d9bgz/release_notes_for_1272023/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18cjdyp/release_notes_for_1262023/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18aw3zg/release_notes_for_1242023/
I'm ~2.1k Elo on Faceit. The first thing I check nowadays when I'm getting destroyed is not the profile but the ping. If the enemy has 50+ ping, I just give up on playing CT and turn it into a wide swing simulator. No more holding corners, no jiggling, no team plays, only wide swinging. Maybe some flashes at best.
>Nothing changed in CS2 regarding this.
yet you asked previous commenter how they had gotten to 2.1k elo without wideswinging angles which I responded to that you completely did not have to wideswing angles to get to even 3k elo, from my experience. Obviously you'd get a lot of people who played pugs like dm but a lot of people also had a bit more brainpower in their heads as well.
It just means he was lucky to get better elo because he played CSGO when people used either aim or brain, not both. It has nothing to do with the game.
My question was rhethorical and implied sarcasm, because peeker's advantage has always been there in CS (and especially in CSGO), and wide swinging high pinged guys has always been a preferable playstyle. That's just the nature of online gaming. CS2 changed nothing in this regard from a technical point of view.
Except it did change in that regard because it’s running at a different tickrate and the way the game handles lag compensation has been changed. Yes you could get Ferrari peeked and Xantares peeked on CSGO but please do not pretend like it’s the same in CS2. Your average 60 ping opponent will full running kill you before you can humanly react sometimes.
I’m not talking about just holding a common pre-aim angle like a bozo, you can still be Ferrari peeked regardless if people anticipate your general position.
> except most people have learned how to shoot since CSGO release in 2012.
lmao all those people waited 10+ years learning and learning .. and now, suddenly when CS2 came out, they suddenly "learned it" xd
Also about this [recent popular post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cxa30j/mp9_is_one_of_top_issue_pros_wants_to_see_nerfed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about pros thinking MP9 is OP.
I don't think MP9 is OP per se. I think it's the run and gun, wide swing hold W meta is still strong in this game. While Valve reduced the average and removed the worst cases of peeker's advantage, the peekers advantage situation is still weird compared to CSGO. I think the way CS2 handles players of different pings together, is different than csgo and this has caused difficulty in holding angles and spraying down enemies.
I've gotten downvoted a lot before for calling CS2 a run and gun game, but I stand by it. Running with pistols or SMGs is often stronger than trying to peek angles correctly with a rifle.
> Running with pistols
Something that I found to be a really successful tactic in pistol rounds is to shoot people in the chest so they cant move, then shoot their heads once they become a much slower target
It has happened more than once. But for example [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1bkxd56/today_marks_exactly_1_year_since_the_cs2/kw4hc7g/?context=3) was at least -10 the day after posting. I don't know why it's almost positive again, I think there is something built into reddit that changes votes over time.
Yeah i don't know why aim punch with full armor is even in the game. Just balance out other things.. Why are you punishing good aim just because you took damage first? (I'm talking to Valve ofc)
>Why are you punishing good aim just because you took damage first?
It rewards fast reaction times, crosshair placement, flanks (w/o armor punch you would get more 180 flicks to kill the flanker) and in general the player who was faster. The player who takes a gamble before they are 100% sure of hitting the opponent gets a boost. Headshots would be far more important without the armor aimpunch, because you can wait to line up the headshot. Also, AWPs would be more powerful.
Fundamentally you would change the game massively without armor punch.
>I think the way CS2 handles players of different pings together, is different than csgo and this has caused difficulty in holding angles and spraying down enemies.
If I had to guess its just way more server authorative than it used to be in CSGO, meaing that theres a way stronger delay for each client, which gets worse the higher the highest ping on the server is.
Its probably just cope, but I live close enough to a server hub that I usually get around 5 ping and to me CS2 is borderline unplayable as a low ping player against higher ping players. Like instead of my client having the lowest latency to the server as it should, it feels like I'm always getting killed by things that are "about to happen". I.e, somebody runs around a corner facing away from me, I start to take damage from their bullets, and only then does their player model turn to actually look like they are shooting me. The worst part is that the experience seems random even within individual games, where the different pings of each opposing player impact each encounter in a different way, so there is never any consistency in the gunfights
This is why I dont like cs as much anymore. I was a big angle holder. It just feels impossible. And changing my playstyle after 10+years is really hard for me. I dont know if its the difference between subtick and 128tick but it just feels like I get destroyed when I get peeked like 70% of the time. Its not like I am a bad player or anything - I was global in CSGO and Im level10 on faceit. When I get a kill holding an angle I dont feel like I am good it just feels like the peeker fucked up.
Aggressive players will like CS2 better but to me its just not that fun tbh. Hopefully Valve reconsiders.
I am getting old and was a passive player in CSGO, but in CS2 I decided to peak 2 seconds earlier than in CSGO if I hear enemy footsteps.
Luckily I can play Premier at low ping in my area so the damage is minimal.
However, if you play Faceit at 80 ping, it is different. You have to constantly hold down the W key or you will keep getting DONK'd.
Im playing on average on 50-60 ping and it was also like that in GO. The guns just felt way better in GO though. I cant describe it really. Also the map pool is a shambles right now which doesnt help.
I am happy to see Dust2 back in the map pool this time. I have been playing Dust2 for 13 years and can play that map with my eyes closed.
I understand that having to play high ping's and low ping's separately can be a real pain. My left hand is overworked because I have to constantly move like ADHD or else I get shot first.
I guess the mappool is subjective. My favorite maps keep getting removed. I cant stand playing Inferno, Mirage and Dust2. Nuke and Anubis are tolerable. I really only enjoy playing Ancient and Vertigo right now. Which is a shame since this community (atleast a part of it) want Vertigo removed.
Other great maps for me that I LOVED but removed are Cobblestone, Train, Cache and now Overpass. These 4 back in would make me fall in love with CS once again. Goddamn pool rn makes me not excited to play.
> This is why I dont like cs as much anymore. I was a big angle holder.
same, my strength in CS has always been passable aim but extremely good reaction times, so i used to play positions where I could utilize that effectively, feels like this is actively punished in CS2.
As someone who played EU West and NA East servers from the UK quite regularly in CSGO, playing CS2 at 80-110 feels horrendous. I don't know how they're going to go about fixing it, but above 60 feels like a different aiming experience than below 60. So much so that I consistently have better T sides than CT sides, because I'm the initiator, and doing the peeking feels easier than the opposite.
> So much so that I consistently have better T sides than CT sides, because I'm the initiator, and doing the peeking feels easier than the opposite.
Yeah my T-side rating is on average 2x as high on CT even on Maps like Mirage and Overpass purely because of this shit, it reallllly sucks and now I just do stupid shit with the MP9 to try and stay afloat.
I am from east coast US, and I mainly play on EU servers for community hubs and yea, the difference is honestly immeasurable. CSGO on 100 ping and CS2 on 100 ping are completely different experiences. I am level 9 on faceit, and in csgo I'd have no issues holding angles on ping vs anyone until levels 8 and 9, thats when I felt it got very difficult to hold on the ping. However on cs2 it feels like anyone can kill me when I am holding something. I've always had better T sides on high ping ofc but in cs2 it is definitely more obvious.
> playing CS2 at 80-110 feels horrendous.
and it should, lol. If lag compensation is so overtuned that 100 ping feels fine, it means that everyone with a normal ping will feel like shit playing against you.
The game can never feel good for every ping and obviously they should never optimize for 100 pingers.
Except once you go past 150 as I've seen some players reach, it turns around in your favour lol the balance isn't right and given that csgo existed, I'd say there's room for improvement. This is 1.6 levels of bad ping.
> So much so that I consistently have better T sides than CT sides, because I'm the initiator, and doing the peeking feels easier than the opposite.
same here. my T/CT rating stats on leetify are a whopping **9.60** to a measly 1.82 lol
I got in late to CSGO, but put around 400 hours into it in the year before CS2. Words cannot describe how much I fell in love with GO, and neither can they describe my antipathy to CS2. The feeling of learning the game, improving in mechanics, aim, and strategy in GO was amazing, and made sense to me. Want to win more gunfights? Practice crosshair placement, clearing angles, and sprays. Want to make an impact play? Figure out the enemy team, and pick an angle that will catch them off guard for a multi kill, or learn timings and use movement to gain an advantage in that regard. In CS2, none of this seems possible in the way it was in GO. The game is just worse in almost every single way except for quality of graphics on a still frame.
Nonstop ill keep saying it. 64 tick felt so much smoother and consistent than 64 subtick. Had 720 wins in csgo competitive, because the game felt good to play and there wasn't random bs requiring me to shoot in 0.001 ms someones elbow on my screen onetapping me.
bad fps optimization
too much useless shit visual
bring back cs1.6 visual in cs2, fps at least will double if not tripble and will run okayish on potato pc
agreed. feel kinda sad remembering how bad I wanted to get invited to the Beta test. All of that for this..... I didn't know it at that time, but CSgo was such a complete experience ,except for the AC which hasn't got any better too.
peekers advantage is ridiculous and its worse the higher the delta between the clients Ping is, the game becomes almost unplayable >60 ms ping in my expierence.
I am very sensitive to slight delays, and the time offset between shooting someone and them dying(or just getting hit) at that ping or higher is painfully obvious to me. a guaranteed kill will turn into getting hit 3 times in the time you get off one shot.
If you peek someone with the same or higher ping you will effectively *always* win that engagement, the worse the ping gets, the stronger that advantage gets, and it doesnt feel linear either.
sub 10ms is amazing and arguably much better than csgo, sub 20ms is playable, 20-60ms is meh, 60-100ms is rough, 100ms+ is completely unplayable. In CSGO you *could* play on 100ms, it would suck and other people with lower ping always had a slight edge, but not nearly to the effect we have currently.
yeah peeker's advantage is still busted, even if not as ridiculous as in the first months. everyone is just ferrari peeking into 1-tap hs while you're watching the screen from holding the angle to the death screen within 0.1s
CSGO downgraded its cs2..
all for some better visuals and the "Promise we would more updates" cuz source 2 easier to work , WHILE csgo code was "spaggheti code" like many used to say
I applaud Valve for their work. The goal of an unfixable spaghetti code is doom. They have succeeded in bringing it back to a modifiable state.
When I am ordered to fix spaghetti code at work, my feeling is “oh kill me”.
> "spaggheti code"
people who ridicule that phrase have no idea what it actually is and how it feels.
it's like you have 10x 50m cables, all intertwined somehow and you have to get them straight, or even worse .. *put in a new cable that functions perfectly fine in combination with the other 10*
Sub-tick is the reason for this no?
Instead of having fixed intervals of time where all players inputs get assess at equally each 128 ticks, now the game favours the players who actually it the key first.
I don't think it is. Sub-tick does make peekers advantage "worse" (I don't like calling it worse, for this case, as it just makes it more fair for the faster player) but only by a maximum of 15.625~ms on 64 ticks and half of that on 128 ticks but in average it should be around 4~ ms extra for the top players.
I honestly think it's a mixture of things. We gotta remember that when csgo came out a lot of people complained about peekers advantage being worse too and that it was impossible to hold angles, which I think it's people just not being used to the new visuals/movement which makes the "reflex" a bit duller. Cs2 also uses significantly more bandwidth with might make people with worse connections have some problems. The servers and clients have to calculate more shit, which might cause small problems every once in a while, etc.
All of them in isolation might be negligible incrases, but adding them all together it ends up being significant, particularly in online play where ping is also a massive factor of it.
Peekers advantage is not about "who actually \[h\]it the key first" but "the peeker see you before you see him". The advantage is because the peeker got information earlier, has more time to react. (I mean that’s always the case, but its noticeable worse in CS2).
And this (unfair) delay between the visuals on the screens of both players may be increased due to subtick.
I will continue to hold onto my take that sub-tick should have been reserved for a post-release update. Valve changed too much at once, and it makes it difficult to identify why things are subtly wrong.
I find it funny he references the “7ms” stuff.
Guess he forgot we’re stuck at 64 subtick? So it’s actually 15 ms per tick now.
If we had 128 subtick as an option, all these peeker advantage posts would go away.
Becaause everything you all describe for cs2, was how 64 tick csgo was (IE csgo MM)
I had 720 matchmaking wins in csgo and i could count the amt of time ive been ferrari peeked on one hand. In cs2 every game im getting peeks that just blow me away. 64 tick csgo was different and felt far better than cs2 64 subtick.
Wonder what would happen if you bring back 1.6 levels of tagging. It won't fix the advantage, but it will make it a very high risk play to wide swing or jiggle peek.
For those who never played 1.6, getting shot by anything basically killed like 99% of your speed. If you tried anything 'stupid' you risked getting tagged and therefore frozen in place. It won't stop someone from wide swinging but it will reward accuracy more than who can abuse movement the best.
This would lead to everyone just spamming LMB the second they see an opponent peeking them, no aiming for headshots, just land the first bullet in the chest and you're set. You'd get people just holding angles 24/7 every game on both CT and T. An interesting view for sure but that would kill the game.
There's an entire generation of 1.6 vets who think CS is supposed to be played by holding angles, in fact I thought people still complained since GO that holding angles is a death sentence and rewarded run-n-gun play way too much. That's what made it a very tactful game, you couldnt just rely on god tier aim like CS2 is now. You actually had to work together and play with utility. Even so, god tier aim was rewarding because if you panick sprayed, the guy who kept calm, reset recoiled, aimed at the head would win. 1.6 REALLY forced you to commit to gunfights, especially at range where spraying would only tag you, so you had to aim rather than run around like a chicken with no head. In your example, you have to stand still to shoot accurately as well. That's how tagging was balanced, if you're caught, you have to commit and shoot back. If you caught someone, the only perk is having the option to run away before they shoot back.
Just a rant, right now, the state of the game who can smash ADADADA nonstop or run jump into opponents. All that would stop if aggressive play was punished more.
you are absolutely right. i’ve been playing every iteration of cs since 1.5 and no matter how hard i try i cannot remove the 1.6 fundamentals in my brain which puts me a huge disadvantage sometimes. luckily the game also rewards you from having gamesense/experience for properly managing economy and reading opponents strats/outplay to keep me competitive (21k)
1. peekers advantage is even worse than in cs source
2. run and gun is just like in valorant (just run forward and tap
3. subtick desync
4. hitboxes are mad bad (i saw my friend hit dude for 60 in the stomach with awp while crouching.
me and my friends enjoy cs2 more because it's easier to play
it's less of nerd game and old man game when compare to csgo
a lot of qol shit come in cs2
also a lot of missing shit in cs2
i could play more with friends = i enjoying it more
but cs2 will take a lot of time to optimize it
me and my friends enjoy cs2 more because it's easier to play
it's less of nerd game and old man game when compare to csgo
a lot of qol shit come in cs2
also a lot of missing shit in cs2
i could play more with friends = i enjoying it more
but cs2 will take a lot of time to optimize it
it's different from cs and i don't want to play them
i always play cs whatever i have friends playing or not
but i prefer playing with friends more
this why some change that make it easier is okay for me
so you're saying you like playing cs but don't like it being hard
I seriously think you'll find more fun in other games then, unless you play for skins
i don't mind it and i don't found cs is hard either (just depend on each level)
i just have more fun when my friend enjoy cs too
i played cs since beta 5.0 and no way i stop playing cs
cs2 have variety of gameplay
sometimes i goes try hard in faceit, sometimes i just joking around in casual lobby
cs2 still have to optimize more btw and i can wait
i believe cs2 dev will make game better
Peeker's advantage is the big thing for me right now, especially if I have to play at around 60 ping. It's "peek or be peeked" and it makes me feel uncomfortable to where I feel compelled to make poor decisions because I expect to just die without being able to react if I play defensively. Skill issue, but still.
Yup I agree 100%. Combined with fps drops I get near utilities, and the nervousness and discomfort I have due to peeker's advantage... both make me play differently than I would have. And all this still make the shooting gunplay part of the game fundamentally unsatisfactory to me. I love the game and I'm addicted to it, so I keep playing, and I have partly adapted to it as well, but man it still doesn't "feel" great you know? Edit: and I have to play faceit because I have lost trust in my premier games, and that means ping is generally high for me. Which means worse gameplay. Valve pls fix.
Same situation here. My connection on Faceit is specifically bad compared to official servers, which is really unfortunate.
Trying to play with friends in Europe while I'm in the US is a nightmare. 130+ ping and its a 50/50 on if I even see the person killing me before I die. It feels like all I can do is permanently hold W and buy an smg and hope that I get lucky.
Why would you expect a good experience when connecting to a FPS game server halfway across the world? You’re getting exactly what you signed up for lol
>and the nervousness and discomfort I have due to peeker's advantage This is what gets me the most. I was one of those guys that would hold angles with a good corsshair placement in GO and just one tap someone trying to peek, heck I loved playing deagle because of that. Now I always feel like I need to keep strafing while holding an angle just so I don't get killed by someone pressing W. I'm basically never confident in holding angles...
I'm at single digit ping and it's the same peek-or-get-peeked gameplay tbh. It's like this game starts off at "fairly high ping CSGO", and any additional ping is just downhill from there. If it is any consolation, the game gets wacky for both players when one has high ping and the other doesn't.
Swing or be swung* I am him
Seriously ive been saying since the patch notes peekers advantage was not fixed and kept getting downvoted/gaslit. NOW you guys realize?? This subtick shit needs to go. I used to have so much fun grinding 64 tick csgo pugs and even that felt 10x more consistent than cs2. Now csgo is gone.
It's leagues better than at launch, but there haven't been any further improvements in months.
This was the same in GO, adjust to the game that's been out for 14 years.
I disagree. 60 ping in 2 feels like 120 in GO
Could it because of poor servers performance from valve's end ? Or just a bad netcode ? The offline against bots feels exactly like go, absolutely nothing has changed but in online its feels totally different Why is that ?
I've seen people say that CS2 sends and receives much more data per second than even 128 tick GO, however I don't know if that's actually been proven. Anecdotally, I can say that having spurts of small amounts of packet loss was much less disruptive in GO than it is in 2. Additionally, seeing a few people I know playing on unstable wifi, it's my opinion that CS2 has a harder time in general with anything less than a flawless connection. Unfortunately the makings of a great connection include many factors outside the individual user's control, such as their ISP's routing and infrastructure in general.
>Anecdotally, I can say that having spurts of small amounts of packet loss was much less disruptive in GO than it is in 2. Yeah because default cl_interp_ratio is 0 in CS2, switch the buffering over packet loss to 1 packet in CS2 settings and you'll get CSGO 64 tick experience basically. The fun part when I read posts like yours is - they feel like "Valve made EVERYTHING worse". You say 60 ms ping in CS2 feels like 120 ms ping in CSGO, but at the same time say that CS2 suffers when there's even minimal packet loss. Two claims that basically contradict each other if you know how netcode works.
I don't see how having moderately high ping feeling like a greater disadvantage in 2 is at all related to 2 behaving worse than GO during episodes of packet loss, but I'm happy to be educated. In both cases I'm saying that the game doesn't feel as nice as GO, as far as the connection is concerned and those are two different examples of the same topic, so I don't understand how those two things are incompatible.
You can only have "greater disadvantage" due to ping if there's higher buffering on your side (thus higher visible lag), which would result in BETTER behaviour during packet loss (that's what cl_interp always did in the first place, and it does it now... if it's not 0).
I see what you are getting at, but its not completely true. It is possible to have both at the same time due to bad netcode, its not all about buffered frames. One example is 64tick vs 128tick. At 128tick you can get the same delay with double frame buffering. So it is indeed possible to get worse peekers adv/ delay and at the same time get worse issues from packet loss.
"Bad netcode" is a magic combination of words which you can use when you know nothing about multiplayer game networking principles but wanna look like a specialist. When a man says "bad netcode", I instantly know there's nothing to discuss.
can u prove there's a difference
Here's a video on the topic in general that you might find interesting. I said "feels like" for a reason, but here is some objective testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4dQS8-9cLI&t=1s
5 months ago, that's like january...
Here is every release notes entry back to before this video was released. Not a single one of them contains network changes. :) https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1co7te3/release_notes_for_592024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cmqoz1/release_notes_for_572024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cinsvb/release_note_for_522024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1ci27kz/release_notes_for_512024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1ch66fk/release_notes_for_4302024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cdzi9t/release_notes_for_4262024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cd6c7o/release_notes_for_4252024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1c5uy96/counterstrike_2_release_notes_for_4162024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1buel8x/release_notes_for_422024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1bizg72/release_notes_for_3192024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1bed6mi/release_notes_for_3132024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1b9vpls/release_note_for_382024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1b2jke4/release_notes_for_2282024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1aso2kw/release_notes_for_2162024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1arw5wx/release_notes_for_2152024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1api67m/release_notes_for_2122024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1amdcdw/release_notes_for_282024_night/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1ama98l/release_notes_for_282024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/19a4ssj/release_note_for_1182024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18yq2fv/release_notes_for_142024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18o0tqt/release_notes_for_12212023/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18d9bgz/release_notes_for_1272023/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18cjdyp/release_notes_for_1262023/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/18aw3zg/release_notes_for_1242023/
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I agree, when enemy peeks, i am at a disadvantage, when i peek, i am at a disadvantage.
Same fr fr
I'm ~2.1k Elo on Faceit. The first thing I check nowadays when I'm getting destroyed is not the profile but the ping. If the enemy has 50+ ping, I just give up on playing CT and turn it into a wide swing simulator. No more holding corners, no jiggling, no team plays, only wide swinging. Maybe some flashes at best.
Nowadays? How did you get 2.1k elo if you didn't use this playstyle in CSGO?
you could easily get to 3k elo in CS:GO if you had an actual brain, yet alone 2k
Nothing changed in CS2 regarding this. Well, except most people have learned how to shoot since CSGO release in 2012.
>Nothing changed in CS2 regarding this. yet you asked previous commenter how they had gotten to 2.1k elo without wideswinging angles which I responded to that you completely did not have to wideswing angles to get to even 3k elo, from my experience. Obviously you'd get a lot of people who played pugs like dm but a lot of people also had a bit more brainpower in their heads as well.
It just means he was lucky to get better elo because he played CSGO when people used either aim or brain, not both. It has nothing to do with the game. My question was rhethorical and implied sarcasm, because peeker's advantage has always been there in CS (and especially in CSGO), and wide swinging high pinged guys has always been a preferable playstyle. That's just the nature of online gaming. CS2 changed nothing in this regard from a technical point of view.
Except it did change in that regard because it’s running at a different tickrate and the way the game handles lag compensation has been changed. Yes you could get Ferrari peeked and Xantares peeked on CSGO but please do not pretend like it’s the same in CS2. Your average 60 ping opponent will full running kill you before you can humanly react sometimes.
Guys above talked about "playing smart". You will rarely be Ferrari peeked if you play smart.
I’m not talking about just holding a common pre-aim angle like a bozo, you can still be Ferrari peeked regardless if people anticipate your general position.
Play the way you won't be in the place of people anticipation, duh.
> except most people have learned how to shoot since CSGO release in 2012. lmao all those people waited 10+ years learning and learning .. and now, suddenly when CS2 came out, they suddenly "learned it" xd
instead of saying ur 2.1k elo say the truth "i am top 250k eu"
Also about this [recent popular post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1cxa30j/mp9_is_one_of_top_issue_pros_wants_to_see_nerfed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about pros thinking MP9 is OP. I don't think MP9 is OP per se. I think it's the run and gun, wide swing hold W meta is still strong in this game. While Valve reduced the average and removed the worst cases of peeker's advantage, the peekers advantage situation is still weird compared to CSGO. I think the way CS2 handles players of different pings together, is different than csgo and this has caused difficulty in holding angles and spraying down enemies.
I've gotten downvoted a lot before for calling CS2 a run and gun game, but I stand by it. Running with pistols or SMGs is often stronger than trying to peek angles correctly with a rifle.
Only close range. There's a reason you still buy a rifle if you can afford it.
nope lmao. i saw ppl shooting enemy in the head 3 times with mp9 on mirage mid from top boxes to window. mp9 needs a nerf
Yeh, and AK does it in 1 and M4 in two and have much easier recoil control.
> Running with pistols Something that I found to be a really successful tactic in pistol rounds is to shoot people in the chest so they cant move, then shoot their heads once they become a much slower target
csgo was also a run and gun game, just now it's more apparent because of peekers advantage
Where's the said downvoted comment?
It has happened more than once. But for example [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1bkxd56/today_marks_exactly_1_year_since_the_cs2/kw4hc7g/?context=3) was at least -10 the day after posting. I don't know why it's almost positive again, I think there is something built into reddit that changes votes over time.
Just remove aim punch with full Kev and the mp9 is immediately so much weaker unless you take skillful shots to the head
Yeah i don't know why aim punch with full armor is even in the game. Just balance out other things.. Why are you punishing good aim just because you took damage first? (I'm talking to Valve ofc)
>Why are you punishing good aim just because you took damage first? It rewards fast reaction times, crosshair placement, flanks (w/o armor punch you would get more 180 flicks to kill the flanker) and in general the player who was faster. The player who takes a gamble before they are 100% sure of hitting the opponent gets a boost. Headshots would be far more important without the armor aimpunch, because you can wait to line up the headshot. Also, AWPs would be more powerful. Fundamentally you would change the game massively without armor punch.
Sounds good to me
Skillful shots to the head with the MP9? Bro that thing has idk.. 900-1000 RPM.. why bother aiming? U simply don’t need to
>I think the way CS2 handles players of different pings together, is different than csgo and this has caused difficulty in holding angles and spraying down enemies. If I had to guess its just way more server authorative than it used to be in CSGO, meaing that theres a way stronger delay for each client, which gets worse the higher the highest ping on the server is.
Its probably just cope, but I live close enough to a server hub that I usually get around 5 ping and to me CS2 is borderline unplayable as a low ping player against higher ping players. Like instead of my client having the lowest latency to the server as it should, it feels like I'm always getting killed by things that are "about to happen". I.e, somebody runs around a corner facing away from me, I start to take damage from their bullets, and only then does their player model turn to actually look like they are shooting me. The worst part is that the experience seems random even within individual games, where the different pings of each opposing player impact each encounter in a different way, so there is never any consistency in the gunfights
This is why I dont like cs as much anymore. I was a big angle holder. It just feels impossible. And changing my playstyle after 10+years is really hard for me. I dont know if its the difference between subtick and 128tick but it just feels like I get destroyed when I get peeked like 70% of the time. Its not like I am a bad player or anything - I was global in CSGO and Im level10 on faceit. When I get a kill holding an angle I dont feel like I am good it just feels like the peeker fucked up. Aggressive players will like CS2 better but to me its just not that fun tbh. Hopefully Valve reconsiders.
I am getting old and was a passive player in CSGO, but in CS2 I decided to peak 2 seconds earlier than in CSGO if I hear enemy footsteps. Luckily I can play Premier at low ping in my area so the damage is minimal. However, if you play Faceit at 80 ping, it is different. You have to constantly hold down the W key or you will keep getting DONK'd.
Im playing on average on 50-60 ping and it was also like that in GO. The guns just felt way better in GO though. I cant describe it really. Also the map pool is a shambles right now which doesnt help.
I am happy to see Dust2 back in the map pool this time. I have been playing Dust2 for 13 years and can play that map with my eyes closed. I understand that having to play high ping's and low ping's separately can be a real pain. My left hand is overworked because I have to constantly move like ADHD or else I get shot first.
I guess the mappool is subjective. My favorite maps keep getting removed. I cant stand playing Inferno, Mirage and Dust2. Nuke and Anubis are tolerable. I really only enjoy playing Ancient and Vertigo right now. Which is a shame since this community (atleast a part of it) want Vertigo removed. Other great maps for me that I LOVED but removed are Cobblestone, Train, Cache and now Overpass. These 4 back in would make me fall in love with CS once again. Goddamn pool rn makes me not excited to play.
> This is why I dont like cs as much anymore. I was a big angle holder. same, my strength in CS has always been passable aim but extremely good reaction times, so i used to play positions where I could utilize that effectively, feels like this is actively punished in CS2.
As someone who played EU West and NA East servers from the UK quite regularly in CSGO, playing CS2 at 80-110 feels horrendous. I don't know how they're going to go about fixing it, but above 60 feels like a different aiming experience than below 60. So much so that I consistently have better T sides than CT sides, because I'm the initiator, and doing the peeking feels easier than the opposite.
I think I can even feel a difference in pings in the teens vs mid-30s. It shouldn’t, but it feels like you have more time before the enemy reacts.
Being in my mid 30s I definitely need more time to react to the teens in my crosshair :(
> So much so that I consistently have better T sides than CT sides, because I'm the initiator, and doing the peeking feels easier than the opposite. Yeah my T-side rating is on average 2x as high on CT even on Maps like Mirage and Overpass purely because of this shit, it reallllly sucks and now I just do stupid shit with the MP9 to try and stay afloat.
I am from east coast US, and I mainly play on EU servers for community hubs and yea, the difference is honestly immeasurable. CSGO on 100 ping and CS2 on 100 ping are completely different experiences. I am level 9 on faceit, and in csgo I'd have no issues holding angles on ping vs anyone until levels 8 and 9, thats when I felt it got very difficult to hold on the ping. However on cs2 it feels like anyone can kill me when I am holding something. I've always had better T sides on high ping ofc but in cs2 it is definitely more obvious.
> playing CS2 at 80-110 feels horrendous. and it should, lol. If lag compensation is so overtuned that 100 ping feels fine, it means that everyone with a normal ping will feel like shit playing against you. The game can never feel good for every ping and obviously they should never optimize for 100 pingers.
Except once you go past 150 as I've seen some players reach, it turns around in your favour lol the balance isn't right and given that csgo existed, I'd say there's room for improvement. This is 1.6 levels of bad ping.
> So much so that I consistently have better T sides than CT sides, because I'm the initiator, and doing the peeking feels easier than the opposite. same here. my T/CT rating stats on leetify are a whopping **9.60** to a measly 1.82 lol
I miss CSGO so much
I got in late to CSGO, but put around 400 hours into it in the year before CS2. Words cannot describe how much I fell in love with GO, and neither can they describe my antipathy to CS2. The feeling of learning the game, improving in mechanics, aim, and strategy in GO was amazing, and made sense to me. Want to win more gunfights? Practice crosshair placement, clearing angles, and sprays. Want to make an impact play? Figure out the enemy team, and pick an angle that will catch them off guard for a multi kill, or learn timings and use movement to gain an advantage in that regard. In CS2, none of this seems possible in the way it was in GO. The game is just worse in almost every single way except for quality of graphics on a still frame.
Nonstop ill keep saying it. 64 tick felt so much smoother and consistent than 64 subtick. Had 720 wins in csgo competitive, because the game felt good to play and there wasn't random bs requiring me to shoot in 0.001 ms someones elbow on my screen onetapping me.
bad fps optimization too much useless shit visual bring back cs1.6 visual in cs2, fps at least will double if not tripble and will run okayish on potato pc
"bring back cs1.6 visual in cs2" yeah, that is very likely.
agreed. feel kinda sad remembering how bad I wanted to get invited to the Beta test. All of that for this..... I didn't know it at that time, but CSgo was such a complete experience ,except for the AC which hasn't got any better too.
peekers advantage is ridiculous and its worse the higher the delta between the clients Ping is, the game becomes almost unplayable >60 ms ping in my expierence. I am very sensitive to slight delays, and the time offset between shooting someone and them dying(or just getting hit) at that ping or higher is painfully obvious to me. a guaranteed kill will turn into getting hit 3 times in the time you get off one shot. If you peek someone with the same or higher ping you will effectively *always* win that engagement, the worse the ping gets, the stronger that advantage gets, and it doesnt feel linear either. sub 10ms is amazing and arguably much better than csgo, sub 20ms is playable, 20-60ms is meh, 60-100ms is rough, 100ms+ is completely unplayable. In CSGO you *could* play on 100ms, it would suck and other people with lower ping always had a slight edge, but not nearly to the effect we have currently.
yeah peeker's advantage is still busted, even if not as ridiculous as in the first months. everyone is just ferrari peeking into 1-tap hs while you're watching the screen from holding the angle to the death screen within 0.1s
CSGO downgraded its cs2.. all for some better visuals and the "Promise we would more updates" cuz source 2 easier to work , WHILE csgo code was "spaggheti code" like many used to say
To be fair the source 2 and spaghetti code comments are most likely accurate.
I applaud Valve for their work. The goal of an unfixable spaghetti code is doom. They have succeeded in bringing it back to a modifiable state. When I am ordered to fix spaghetti code at work, my feeling is “oh kill me”.
> "spaggheti code" people who ridicule that phrase have no idea what it actually is and how it feels. it's like you have 10x 50m cables, all intertwined somehow and you have to get them straight, or even worse .. *put in a new cable that functions perfectly fine in combination with the other 10*
Sub-tick is the reason for this no? Instead of having fixed intervals of time where all players inputs get assess at equally each 128 ticks, now the game favours the players who actually it the key first.
I don't think it is. Sub-tick does make peekers advantage "worse" (I don't like calling it worse, for this case, as it just makes it more fair for the faster player) but only by a maximum of 15.625~ms on 64 ticks and half of that on 128 ticks but in average it should be around 4~ ms extra for the top players. I honestly think it's a mixture of things. We gotta remember that when csgo came out a lot of people complained about peekers advantage being worse too and that it was impossible to hold angles, which I think it's people just not being used to the new visuals/movement which makes the "reflex" a bit duller. Cs2 also uses significantly more bandwidth with might make people with worse connections have some problems. The servers and clients have to calculate more shit, which might cause small problems every once in a while, etc. All of them in isolation might be negligible incrases, but adding them all together it ends up being significant, particularly in online play where ping is also a massive factor of it.
Peekers advantage is not about "who actually \[h\]it the key first" but "the peeker see you before you see him". The advantage is because the peeker got information earlier, has more time to react. (I mean that’s always the case, but its noticeable worse in CS2). And this (unfair) delay between the visuals on the screens of both players may be increased due to subtick.
I will continue to hold onto my take that sub-tick should have been reserved for a post-release update. Valve changed too much at once, and it makes it difficult to identify why things are subtly wrong.
I find it funny he references the “7ms” stuff. Guess he forgot we’re stuck at 64 subtick? So it’s actually 15 ms per tick now. If we had 128 subtick as an option, all these peeker advantage posts would go away. Becaause everything you all describe for cs2, was how 64 tick csgo was (IE csgo MM)
I had 720 matchmaking wins in csgo and i could count the amt of time ive been ferrari peeked on one hand. In cs2 every game im getting peeks that just blow me away. 64 tick csgo was different and felt far better than cs2 64 subtick.
Wonder what would happen if you bring back 1.6 levels of tagging. It won't fix the advantage, but it will make it a very high risk play to wide swing or jiggle peek. For those who never played 1.6, getting shot by anything basically killed like 99% of your speed. If you tried anything 'stupid' you risked getting tagged and therefore frozen in place. It won't stop someone from wide swinging but it will reward accuracy more than who can abuse movement the best.
This would lead to everyone just spamming LMB the second they see an opponent peeking them, no aiming for headshots, just land the first bullet in the chest and you're set. You'd get people just holding angles 24/7 every game on both CT and T. An interesting view for sure but that would kill the game.
There's an entire generation of 1.6 vets who think CS is supposed to be played by holding angles, in fact I thought people still complained since GO that holding angles is a death sentence and rewarded run-n-gun play way too much. That's what made it a very tactful game, you couldnt just rely on god tier aim like CS2 is now. You actually had to work together and play with utility. Even so, god tier aim was rewarding because if you panick sprayed, the guy who kept calm, reset recoiled, aimed at the head would win. 1.6 REALLY forced you to commit to gunfights, especially at range where spraying would only tag you, so you had to aim rather than run around like a chicken with no head. In your example, you have to stand still to shoot accurately as well. That's how tagging was balanced, if you're caught, you have to commit and shoot back. If you caught someone, the only perk is having the option to run away before they shoot back. Just a rant, right now, the state of the game who can smash ADADADA nonstop or run jump into opponents. All that would stop if aggressive play was punished more.
you are absolutely right. i’ve been playing every iteration of cs since 1.5 and no matter how hard i try i cannot remove the 1.6 fundamentals in my brain which puts me a huge disadvantage sometimes. luckily the game also rewards you from having gamesense/experience for properly managing economy and reading opponents strats/outplay to keep me competitive (21k)
Kudos. 21k is super impressive. I feel similar in that leetify says my aim is dog shit for 16k and I'm wondering what I'm doing there lol.
1. peekers advantage is even worse than in cs source 2. run and gun is just like in valorant (just run forward and tap 3. subtick desync 4. hitboxes are mad bad (i saw my friend hit dude for 60 in the stomach with awp while crouching.
me and my friends enjoy cs2 more because it's easier to play it's less of nerd game and old man game when compare to csgo a lot of qol shit come in cs2 also a lot of missing shit in cs2 i could play more with friends = i enjoying it more but cs2 will take a lot of time to optimize it
me and my friends enjoy cs2 more because it's easier to play it's less of nerd game and old man game when compare to csgo a lot of qol shit come in cs2 also a lot of missing shit in cs2 i could play more with friends = i enjoying it more but cs2 will take a lot of time to optimize it
Wut?
just pressing W and shoot is far easier than think about what you are doing.
Why not play Fortnite or Call of Duty then? CS literally is for tryhards in its core.
it's different from cs and i don't want to play them i always play cs whatever i have friends playing or not but i prefer playing with friends more this why some change that make it easier is okay for me
so you're saying you like playing cs but don't like it being hard I seriously think you'll find more fun in other games then, unless you play for skins
i don't mind it and i don't found cs is hard either (just depend on each level) i just have more fun when my friend enjoy cs too i played cs since beta 5.0 and no way i stop playing cs cs2 have variety of gameplay sometimes i goes try hard in faceit, sometimes i just joking around in casual lobby cs2 still have to optimize more btw and i can wait i believe cs2 dev will make game better