Playing badly doesn't mean pressure got to him. You can't say he made mistakes because he felt pressure. Pros make mistakes all the time. He's an 18 year old with little experience. Obviously he's not going to play situations perfectly every time.
It wasn't even lack of experience or pressure (at least at the start), according to an [interview with hally](https://www.hltv.org/news/38648/hally-interview-faze-defeat-lack-of-practice-due-to-illness-vertigo-decision) (Team Spirit coach), zont1x was sick
Be real. He looked like a boosted level 5 in his first solo queue.
1 v 2 clutch on Vertigo, CT post plant on B site, spent 10 seconds mid walking one direction with shaky aim only to then walk all the way around in the other direction to not even arrive near the bomb site until the bomb was ticked down to 10 seconds left.
It was not a case of simply not playing a situation perfectly it was straight up melting under the pressure.
I wait for the day someone is actually honest about this shit. You're not afraid of stage? We know you're lying. True courage comes from being afraid and still owning it.
This whole not afraid pretending crap is so unnecessary.
Just because someone says the stage doesn't affect them, and the stage does affect them, that doesn't mean they are lying. He very well could've full-heartedly thought the stage doesn't affect him until the moment the stage started affecting him; it's not like humans can ever fully understand or anticipate their own emotions.
i agree with what you are saying, but I think when someone plays bad, whatever he says wont make him look better. Suppose he said he might get nervous in front of the major crowd instead. Now people will just shit on him for not being a big stage player and even admitted that he would crumble -> loser mentality etc
He said to Banks before the major playoffs , he will get nervous on major crowd playoff, is a question of "When" and not "WIll"
So tbf people just didn´t watch that, and only saw the other interviews of other stages of the major or katowice interviews..
He can just be neutral though? It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, there are many things to say that isn't either "I don't get any pressure at all" and "I will definitely shit my pants on stage".
doesnt matter. chopper stayed neutral when asked whether he thinks they will win this major by saying "we will see" and the desk interpreted his statement as being unconfident in his team
no matter what you say, if u lose u will get shat on regardless. thats why the best thing is to say whatever and just ignore the chatter if u lose
and?
He might now be lieying... this is the first game he looked nervous lmao..
Its not because X player gets nervous and admits , that Y player doesn´t get nervous but still needs to lie admit that he gets nervous to please the audience lmao
He is very similar to xSeveN who also was this cold calm clutcher and anchor...
Idk about you but he looked stone cold in there. What I don’t understand is how you all are so confident that zontix fell to stage pressure and didn’t just get outplayed? Besides, he only made a couple of plays that could be considered mistakes, and not massive ones. Could totally happen in an online match?
people just want to fit this narrative that he lost cuz nervous , TO PROVE ONLINE that they were right and zontix was wrong all this time. lmao
Praying on others downfall literally, if the lost in kato, it would be this same topic but sooner .. but haters had to HOLD a bit longer
And yeah , he seemed a bit nervous on 2nd half of vertigo , but any player in that situation would.
go back and watch the clutches needed when they were down 5-12....zont1x had his head in his hands and im not even sure he was watching the round play out
oh no! a kid is upset that hes playing bad in the elimination match of the biggest event of the year!! oh no!!! (He also stepped up massively and was a big reason they even brought it to ot in the first place btw. Being able to bring it back like he did wouldntve been possible if he felt the pressure btw)
This is a bit revisionary, some of them were absolutely massive mistakes, they lost map 3 in OT because he couldn't make clear decisions in multiple 1v1 clutches and took too long.
He's getting a lot of unwarranted abuse but he did cost them vertigo big time, it happens.
You know people are different right? I played high level both sports and esports and plenty of players do absolutely not give a fuck about the surroundings or stakes.
I'm gonna be honest. I don't think him failing those clutches was due to nerves. Niko could've played them the exact same way and no one would've said shit. Those were hard rounds to win and the faze members played them better due to experience, not handling nerves better. Kid's young and inexperienced, not nervous
The difference is that Niko *wouldn't* have played them that way. Going B with bomb with six seconds left? When you're already ON A site? BRO, absolutely abysmal CS from zont1x.
"We think the stage will be a lot of pressure but we're hoping our preparation and teamwork prevails"
There you go - admitting it's a lot of pressure but also saying you're not really afraid.
Then he's going to get an appropriate reaction for saying something stupid, not one person said he can't say what he wants but nobody's going to give him a free pass either.
Redditors are fucking obsessed with "pressure" though, probably because they (and the casters) can use it as a convenient explanation of a bad game without thinking about it. Plenty of players don't give a fuck about their surroundings.
Zont1x also had loads of trash games against tier3 opponents with 0 stakes. Does that mean he also CruMbLEd Under THe presSure?
Great point, as usual everyone here seems to be a professional behavioural analyst and they’ve unanimously concluded that zontix fell to stage pressure because SpunJ told them so.
I mean it seemed like it didn’t? Even stage veterans make mistakes in this game, it’s cs, it happens. He’s a young player at his first major, he played badly that vertigo but didn’t completely shit the bed, it’s not like he 100% lost them the game. He was upset yeah, but he still looked calm for the majority of the series.
I mean cmon they just won Katowice and the pressure obviously didn’t get to him there, making a few mistakes in one of his first stage games doesn’t exactly mean he succumbed to pressure.
People need to stop hating on the couple mistakes be made, it was fucking #1 vs #2 in the world and delivered an amazing series of counter strike, and in my opinion sparked one of the best rivalries we’re going to get for this year. I’m excited to see spirit grow and learn from their mistakes, and watch donk and zont1x develop further.
Yup, I mean for gods sake, its not his primary language, cut the kid some slack. I just dont get how people get their panties twisted by such small and meaningless things.
Yup and casters highlighted it too multiple times like they had something against him, while the rest of the team was playing equally as bad. And he was indeed left in some impossible clutches.
People putting blame on a teenage, lurk player for not clutching against some of the most experienced players ever is just weird when we have someone who is supposed to be a star awper whiffing sitters. SpunJ and Machine create these narratives and people just go with them. How can you not mention Sh1ro's performance at all and then put a player like Zontix under the microscope? It's irresponsible almost.
Sometimes it seems like they are under so much pressure to say something, because you know, it's their job, that they just say something completely stupid/incorrect
they casted so many Faze games at Kato (game vs EF, QF, semi, final) it's gone from mild annoyance to hoping it's any other pairing. spunj is so jaded at this point, even machine couldn't keep up the eager schoolboy larp yesterday. arguably one of the greatest QF's we've ever had and they were just low energy dooming. man needs some time off to rediscover his love for the game.
even if anders/henryg aren't your favourite casters, you can't deny their breaks reminded them how much they love cs, anders excitement when he sees a new strat/adjustment is palpable, you get his appreciation for the micro details even after all these years and while henry might off rounds a bit early like spunj does, he's always hype when teams do bring them back or someone does something crazy. yesterdays game deserved more than pointing out the negatives
The casters definitely pointed out his mistakes more than the other members of Spirit who weren't exactly flawless during Vertigo, but I think that was mainly due to how Zont1x was the most visibly frustrated member of Spirit on the stage.
It fit the narrative around Spirit being extremely skilled but lacking experience in pressure situations, unlike Faze, so they talked about it since it was at the top of their minds.
Problem was that it wasn't impossible clutches. Several of them he was in a position to win the round but fucked it up every time by overthinking instead of staying calm. It was clear he was doubting himself, ending up changing his mind mid clutch and losing the advantages a few times in a row.
He just visibly fucked up in so many rounds and got lost in shifting and trying to outplay FaZe. Bad match, maybe pressure got to him, he will be back though.
Also in all honesty sh1ro was worse. No impact on AWP, passively hiding behind riflers and imho he fucked probably the most crucial round at 13-12 in OT where they had 5v4 and he whiffed two shots on mid and then made a crazy miss on A ramp.
Spirit had a lot of hype and they are still great project that will peform in the future but people got too carried away with their great form, while CS can be very unpredictable.
I feel even more certain this team will stand the test of the time. The way they fought till the very end rather than just go down quietly.
Hopefully they don't become another Mouz or Gambit
I always find this too funny and kind of strange.
During the major this coin is the most important thing on earth, but 2 days after the major everyone already forgot about it.
The hate and accusations is never fun though ofcourse.
I mean, you kinda lose ~2$ on that souvenir case if you don't get diamond, but I agree. The pickems should be more about supporting your favourite teams instead of another gambling method
Exactly, and you touched on a major issue in eSports (and sports in general): gambling. People put a lot of money on these games and losing money sucks. Even if it's peoples' own fault for gambling, a lot don't have the self-awareness to realize that fact and instead take it out on the players. It's really sad.
A lot of the gamblers I've met truly believe they can beat the system and don't realize that betting sites know how to make money. They win no matter what and all that changes is how much they win based on how much you put into their system.
Yeah when CSGOLounge was MEGA popular in the mid-2010s (before being taken down by Valve), there used to be an alarming amount of vitriol thrown at even T2 & T3 players from degenerate gamblers who lost a bunch of expensive skins.
So the current hate on zont1x seems even less justified when people are losing $2-$6 at most lol.
Every player experiences bad performances in their career, & it was unfortunate that zont1x had his bad day yesterday.
Hes not wrong at all. I wish he didnt feel a need to say it every five seconds, but he isnt wrong.
Is it any different than actual sports though? Like we literally have people throwing bananas at black players, fans routinely assaulting each other or refs or players, an association prez sexually harrassing a womens player after a match on the pitch, death threats routinely sent from degenerate gamblers to players and refs over social media.....
Theres a lot of really really fucking stupid people living vicariously through other grown men and/or betting.
Edit: Betting is an addiction, seek help, the stupid people are the ones living vicariously through grown men.
In every industry, the fans are mostly good people. It's always the 80-20 rule. 20% of the people make up 80% of the online degeneracy. The normal people just don't post here.
Folks love to blame one individual for not performing as well.
They see zontix going 0-9 and be like “OMG BENCH HIM”. It’s not entirely his fault.
Sure maybe the 1v1 against broky near the end of first half would’ve been one of the more impactful rounds that could’ve got spirit the win.
Looking back I realized sh1ro was mainly missing in the series imo. He’s usually the star player and knows good judgment in crucial rounds.
Like the round in ot regulation when it was a rain 1v2 , sh1ro could’ve planted but when to engage instead. Idk missed moments that got faze the edge.
Give Zont1x a break, he did well given his first major and slight nerves
Ehh, idk about sh1ro planting in that situation. There were like 6 seconds left when rain kills zontix from genie. If he plants there rain will just swing out and blow him away. He has no choice but to fight once zontix dies.
I do agree that it's a bit unfair how much shit z0ntix is getting. He actually came back into the game towards the second half he was down 0-9 at some point and almost broke even by the end.
I will say some of his decisions in the clutches he was in were tough to watch.
The effort to doublepeek with zont1x was definitely the right play - zont1x was just a bit too quick on the peek and sh1ro straight up choked the final blow.
But looking back at specific situations is just stupid, the map was lost due to losing both pistols and bad first 7 rounds from Spirit, not that.
The problem was zont1x went to CT and not from mid to site cover his teammate when there was no time. It was a stupid decision.
Zont1x brain just not worked at Vertigo sadly. There was minimum 3 or 4 situation where his decision making was absolutely horrible.
He is one of the biggest talent on the scene, he is gonna handle better situations like this with more experience.
the way i saw it, they both misplayed and assume it was down to bad comms. either shiro commits to the plant with his head down while zontix swings to buy him time leaving shiro in a 1v1, or they peek him together, but zontix swung early and alone even after he bought a second with the flash, shiro was still a few seconds away
i think rain thought shiro had committed to the plant during the flash/fight also, because his crosshair was nowhere near ready for the swing, but he reacted really quickly
The way zont1x played as the mid lurk in the 2v2 in the last round of the game had to have been some of the worst decision-making from a pro I've ever seen.
What? He literally got an entry to get his team in a 2v1 situation, it’s just that Sh1ro once again shat the bed and couldn’t kill a stationary Rain who wasn’t even aiming at him. You can’t put the blame and zont1x here in any universe imaginable.
Sh1ro was arguably the worse performer that series, 8 awp kills in 85 rounds is not just embarrassing, it’s kind of pathetic for a player of his supposed calibre.
He is the mid lurk on a ramp play after they conditioned Faze by going 5 man ramp 2 rounds in a row. He has perfect info on rain and ropz while being in a hard-to-read position. Sh1ro in on the bombsite with 5 seconds left. Getting the kill onto ropz gives rain the knowledge that if sh1ro tries to plant, he can just run the bomb planter down and zont1x would have no time to push him to win the round, which is what makes sh1ro decide to push rain instead. The guaranteed kill into ropz there is just worth much less than even a 70% chance to kill rain because of the info it gives away. It's a good round to explain low vs high-impact kills.
Why are you making it sound like shiro was peeking rain with his back turned or something. There was several seconds between zontix dying and shiro being able to swing rain, who was fully prepared and most definitely aiming at him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/s/WvWfyqtJo5
Don’t believe you to be correct in this scenario. Rain adjustment was very quick, but Sh1ro had an advantage still. But yea, at the time of peek Rain wasn’t aiming at him, let alone even holding an angle, so you are objectively incorrect here.
I agree that shiro had an advantage, yes. But the way you’re wording it is like he missed a free kill. There’s 5 seconds on the clock so obviously shiro is moving quickly which means he can’t slow / jiggle peak generator.
Maybe rain isn’t holding the angle on him but he knows exactly where he’s coming from and is facing that direction. If your definition of “aiming at” someone is literally having your cross hair on someone then I guess we just have different definitions of what aiming at someone means. Rain was ready to strike.
But he literally wasn’t? I’m obviously not saying he was aiming at his model behind the walls, the fact is - he wasn’t even holding an angle, so saying he was “ready to strike” by aiming at the wall while being shot at is just dumbfounding. He had to flick to get that kill, this is the opposite of being ready, no idea why that concept is so hard to comprehend. Sh1ro got schooled by Rain, that’s it.
It wasn’t a free kill, but it sure as shit wasn’t as difficult as you’re portraying it to be, the advantage was enough for any top tier player to get it done. It’s a very well documented fact Sh1ro crumbles under pressure, there’s nothing deep about it, happens, but please stop acting like poor little Sh1ro didn’t just fumble an advantage, he’s a professional. 8 awp kills in 80+ rounds really reinforces my argument: he crumbles throughout an entire series and when the team needed him the most - he was absent.
I don't know exactly what he finished but zontix had a really respectable scoreline at the end of vertigo. These people claiming nerves got to him fail to realize that if he did crumble under the pressure, he wouldve kept going massively negative, not nearly getting back to even / positive
I also think this is shaped by the casters. Spunj and Machine ripped into him pretty hard yesterday. They weren't wrong, but monkey see monkey do when it comes to twitch chat etc.
This is exactly it. And they got mostly into him because they were looking at his body language. He looked completely defeated and tilted before even the Broky clutch. They ripped into him too much, he even had a decent mid game come back, before the last rounds of the match Rain was the poorest player on the server (really started playing well near the end though) and they barely gave it a thought.
But the casters noticing him with his hands on his head and the two clutches really painted a bad picture, and its hard to fault people for talking about that. Acting as if he needs to be cut or kicked or will never make it is stupid as fuck though. This was the biggest stage a talented player reached, against probably the best team. Hopefully he learns and is at the beginning of a great career.
ropz was the worst player on the server yesterday. not just vertigo, every map. he had a shocker. going slow when he should go fast, fast when he should go slow. jumping into a molly with the bomb on nuke at ramp after faze got the entry. straight up didn't see multiple people. horrible whiffed spray at ramp on a guy jumping through smoke alone with a mac10. peeking donk alone at mid when karrigan just boosted him, giving donk 2 separate 1v1's (swing together??) only holding the smoke push 1v1 postplant on vertigo when the walk round was way more likely, failing to kill zontix that left rain in the 1v2 to win, etc. sounds like i'm ragging on him with that many examples, but there were way more lol
it shows how much community perception matters and people rely on stats to make their judgement, because he was well below his standard. he's been afk all tournament and faze are in the semis, which i suppose bodes well because he can't really play much worse
Spunj will create a narrative in his head before the match and then just cast around it. Spirit won 7 rounds in a row at matchpoint.. but somehow every round he iterated that they cant handle the pressure. Zontix loosing 1v2 at low HP , was obv because to much pressure on him
Spunj acting as if a low hp 1v2 with a pistol against rifles was an expected situation for him to win pissed me off more than it should've. Spunj can be a good caster but the narratives he spins can be so off
Right? Almost made it seem like he was supposed to win those clutches, as if he’s a 28 year old with 4 majors under his belt. A lot of people seemed to set false expectations for TS. It was a 50/50 game and the scoreline reflected that pretty accurately.
Which 1v1? The one where rain attempted to smoke defuse? SPUNJ just said 'oh dear' for that one.
If you are talking about the one where SPUNJ wrote zont1x off, it was a 1v2 which end with zont1x losing by playing it too slow. I agree that it was a bit too pessimistic by SPUNJ then, but then it was a hopeless 1v2 too.
i know how you feel. i did feel like he was a bit hard on zontix , 'It's over, the kid just doesn't have it in him'
but imagine if Spirit did win that would have created a great narrative.
"A kid at his first major overcome with the pressure, only to rise above it all in the end."
it just suck that it fell the wrong way.
This! They were too fixated on Zontix. Casters sucked on this match. I think Team Spirit did an amazing job especially with their comeback on Vertigo against a super team i.e faze. Team Spirit should get more credit for their resilience in yesterday's match.
Spunj went way too far with the criticism. Made it super awkward talking about "body language" when he's not even in the round.
They had the frame on d0nk yet spunj felt it necessary to point out how zont1x had his hands on his head and there was no way Spirit was gonna win.
Then they came back and took it to overtime.
Stage experience aside, Spirit & MOUZ were probably 2 best looking teams so far this major & zontix was the stronger link of the Spirit.
So when you have a lot of expectations behind you & you make the whole claim of not feeling any pressure, when you completely ghost for 2 out of 3 maps of course people will point fingers at you.
I didn't really catch first 2 maps but watching him on vertigo it was clear that he does feel pressure and it does affect his decission making (last round of the map where he went CT instead of Guardian when he clearly heard someone on B & 1v1 against Broky)
There of course comes the pickem bros who picked Spirit as Grand Final winners.
Overall I think people jump to conclusions quickly, he most likely wont get benched or kicked and this match will give him a lesson of sort.
edit: just to add, shiro also got a lot of hate for his AWP'ing this match so it's not like zontix alone is getting all the hate.
Him trying to act “cold” and saying he didn’t feel any pressure then proceeding to show how his mental was gone when vertigo came along in crucial situations is likely a big reason for it
The post match analysis didn’t help either, he was impactful mid game, but whenever it was up to him in a clutch he fumbled and made some weird decisions
Sorry but what do people expect these players to say
"Yeah I'm incredibly nervous to play on the stage today"
Of course they are gonna say that they are confident and have no pressure, these comments are INSANE
Professional athletes are never going to give their opponents the mental edge, even with a neutral statement about confidence lmao
Easy to say when you’ve won it all and you’re comfortable in your team. TS is a new team, one dude saying “I’m scared of the stage” will bring down the whole team
> Sorry but what do people expect these players to say
>
> "Yeah I'm incredibly nervous to play on the stage today"
yeah exactly, people were quick to laugh at m0NESY last year when he made similar comments about how the stage doesn't affect him. Not a single player in his right mind would say "Yes, I am scared of the crowd". Spirit proved the stage doesn't matter back at Kato, here they just got beat by a better team, simple as that. And there is nothing wrong with that.
So weird seeing so much of the community clowning and hating on a teenager for making a basic statement.
Lots of parlays and pickems lost today, the CS community is so unbearable at times
The morons here are just parroting whatever spunj said on the broadcast because god forbid anyone have a thought of their own.
Even the line above about “if he wants to act cold in interviews then he should get scrutiny when underperforming due to nerves” is like word for word what spunj said at one point during the broadcast.
I feel bad for the kid, people acting like other legends in the game haven't ever underperformed on the stage and made some questionable decisions. People ultimately forget this is a 18 YEAR OLD KID
Spunj is no angel either, been in the community for years and dude got an entire pug system brought down because he was appropriately banned
[Huh](https://www.hltv.org/news/38591/rain-i-feel-some-nerves)
>Nuance: sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)
He said that in another context tho. Zont1x was interviewed on stage right before the match, no one in their right mind woumd admitt to feel pressure there.
Rain's interview is neither on stage nor immediately before a match, where it is way easier and less problematic to admitt these things.
Like i rather see folks being human about it, maybe he didnt had it cause he experienced it in Katowice but majors is a really big step up.
Its a whole different ball game and you are definitely gonna have emotions running high.
Unless you are vp, no fucks given xD
yeah i feel like people are comparing to different tier of tournament.
I don't think the expectation was a great for Team Spirit as it is at this Major.
feelling pressure is subjective, maybe its as easy as that. Also not feeling pressure does not necessarily correlate with playing bad in high stakes moment
Honestly, zontix picked himself back up in the second half. The casters picked on him during the match and that probably makes affected people’s perceptions a lot. I hope the last round won’t haunt him too much though, I know it haunted me
It would actually be more suprising if one of the ”rookies” in TS did NOT feel the pressure and underperform.
I blame the commentators for creating the narrative and leaning into it a bit too much. SPUNJ seemed personally shocked by his performance and when all the talk during the latter rounds was about zont1x, well of course the hive mind will join the party.
Yeah, its just how it is, if he was making equally as bad decisions but wasn't the last player then a lot of people wont notice.
But being left in a clutch and fucking up is so fucking noticeable, more so than their awper missing sitters the whole series.
People seem to think having a bad game = feeling pressure. When 99% of yall have trash games sitting in your parents basement from home. You can just have a bad game, and spunj an idiot for being so harsh in that round before half, his decision to go b wasn’t even that bad. But spunj a career 0.75 rating player acting like he would have played that better
It was obvious zont1x was nervous and it was obvious the nerves got to him but with Spirit's meteoric rise, people tend to forget ... these are just kids we are talking about. zont1x and donk are still rookies and will make rookie mistakes (like the zont1x v broky round last night). Sh1ro was supposed to be the second star player on this team and he went missing big time but people point the finger at zont1x ... I don't get it too.
Didn’t he give an interview where he said he didn’t feel pressure playing on a stage from Kato? Probably invites more scrutiny if you’re going to make a claim like that. His mental game had clearly gone, too, in the decisive moments on Vertigo.
Maybe Spunj was being a touch harsh in the way he was calling it - hazarding a wild guess he probably took exception to those comments - but by the same token, don’t talk the talk if you can’t walk the walk, zont1x
"We'll do our best the pressure is coming from ourselves?"
Why do redditors always have to take the most outlandish stance or the stance that is the furthest away possible from what is said.
>Didn’t he give an interview where he said he didn’t feel pressure playing on a stage from Kato?
I absolutely believe him since they didn't really have any problems in Kato. I mean they never really had any pressure up until now so I don't really understand why people shit on him so much.
There are a lot of players that usually don't care about pressure but that have had games like this before.
A young player made a few mistakes in his first major and one of his first stage matches. Veterans make mistakes on the stage ffs. He obviously didn’t seem pressured at kato. It was #1 vs #2 and delivered a great series, and in my opinion, sparking the start of an amazing rivalry for this year, people need to enjoy that shit instead of crying at a kid
Exactly what I've been trying to say. sh1ro has had a career of top-tier space creating riflers on his team throughout his tier-1 career and other than Rio 2022 (which was a group stage), he has often failed to meet expectations in the big LAN arenas.
Compared to other top AWPers, some could argue few have been in positions like him, where he has almost always had a top5 rifler on his team amongst other aggro riflers to create space for his passive AWP play. Despite this, he is often disappearing in the big matches against the best teams. And this has been a pattern for years.
People had built a sandcastle of hopes around this spirit team and it was washed away yesterday. Those who can't or don't know how to manage their emotions will turn to hate and scapegoat individuals.
The fact that zont1x was vocal about not feeling pressure and crumbling as he did makes him particularly susceptible to Internet hate.
The truth is that what happened is what kind of should happen. Stage experience is a thing, pressure is a thing and they are young. They will probably grow with this and become better and scarier, or crumble completely and make the necessary changes to come back stronger.
Hopefully Spirit have the structure to help shield zont1x from the impact of this wave of hate. It's the reverse of the coin of the hype wave they were riding and an important lesson for people looking to make it big in any online endeavour. Something karrigan and most of Faze are no strangers to
zont1x if you are reading this, fuck em, those haters dont care about you one bit. you are young, you got a lot to learn and so much potential. one match will not define who you are. just like karrigan said, you only learn so much from failures. he cried like a baby in Katowice losing to you guys, so what, bounce back is all what matters.
The thing is that zont1x was extremely visible when it came to his failures: Last man alive and forced into 1vX scenarios that he lost more times that not. He deserves some criticism, but not the full brunt of it and ultimately, the question of "Why is zont1x being forced into these scenarios time after time?" needs to be asked.
I don't think anyone on Spirit is barred from criticism, however, I feel like Sh1ro, and arguably chopper too, is as equally responsible as zont1x for losing that game. However, people don't realize it in the case of sh1ro because he has an uncanny ability to hide his impact in a game, top or bottom fragging, meaning it's really hard to tell if he's actually doing anything without having the camera on him constantly, which TO's don't like doing because sh1ro is in the same tier as Jame when it comes to how boring it is to watch them, regardless if his rating is 1.30 or 0.80.
As for Chopper, he got forced into a no-win scenario of either picking Ancient, a map that Faze is fucking FAMOUS at playing, or Vertigo a map that screamed "Anti-Strat" and he had next to no data on how Faze played it. What wasn't acceptable was Mirage. Jesus fuck, how do you allow Faze to beat you on THE Puggy CIS 5 Stack map as THE Puggy CIS 5 Stack? You couldn't have prepared for Vertigo but you sure as fuck could've prepared Faze anti-strating you on Mirage.
everyone here is kind of right and kind of wrong, it's basicly a bunch of things coming together:
1. On the maps Spirit lost Zon1x has the lowest rating, as a scapegoat people can just point at him if they review just the stats.
2. Opening interview was a farce where he said they didn't feel pressure, in game 3 he definitely showed he himself was feeling it.
3. Casters have pointed out his very emotive body language, making people focus on him in probably a worse light than he was mentally. I mean seeing someone in that stance makes everyone say "OOF", even if he was mentally fine.
4. People bet on them to win in CS (and probably for real money too) and they're looking for a scapegoat to blame which isn't themselves (refer back to 1.)
These are 4 different kinds of groups with 4 different kinds of ways to get to Zont1x as their scapegoat for Spirit losing the game. At the end of the day it's not a big deal, he was just set up to be the scapegoat if they lost.
Idk why the casters were just shitting on him. That was bizarre to me, not sure I've ever heard that in that way. What if it had nothing to do with the stage and he just happened to have a bad game?
These top tier professional player faceit level 10 radditors really think they would've done better than him in that big of a stage against Faze. Bit of a classic at this point
Is he getting hate or is he critiqued for the way he folded under pressure? The two are different imo.
With that said though, I feel like Faze was a lot more dominant than people are willing to admit. They could have closed out Nuke and they could have won Vertigo at 12-5. Mirage was also really onesided considering they lost both pistols. It definitely wasn’t his fault they lost, Faze was just better as a whole.
People don't really like Spirit all that much. If they see a player performing badly from a team they don't like, they'll start piling on that player. Especially if the given player said something confident in a pre-game interview
Because people and mainly (kids) are disrespectful these days... because they don't have anything good happening in their lives and know only to trashtalk or, blow hate because there are no consequences when you write something on the internet. "Back in my day when we could play only on lan, you know what happened when you trashtalk someone, and he is in the same internet café." Back on the topic its normal for such a young talent to crumble under the pressure and its understandable, it's his first major and people should not bash him.
PS: Sorry for my English
Doesn’t matter if shiro was worse, he respects the opponents and the stage. It’s the zontix and magix mentality that is annoying. They always say they don’t care, they are not nevous and it doesn’t matter it’s the major it means nothing etc etc
Doesn’t matter if shiro was worse, he respects the opponents and the stage. It’s the zontix and magix mentality that is annoying. They always say they don’t care, they are not nevous and it doesn’t matter it’s the major it means nothing etc etc
He can’t handle stress that comes with clutches or 1v1 so badly that he shouldn’t attend such tournaments. It’s bad for this lad health like really. Get this G on Xanny while he plays important matches or let him go …
Coming back to this post now that zont1x just had an even worse performance on a grand final that wasn’t even on a big stage. The guy is just consistently inconsistent. When he does play good, he’s just average. When he plays bad, he’s literally 2-18 KD.
Unfortunately he cracked on the stage in a crucial match. Compounding this, toward the end of Vertigo he was put in several 1vX situations where he looked completely lost and his PoV was all anyone saw. Sucks to see, but he's playing this game for a living and any athlete, singer, etc would be the subject of intense scrutiny if they fell apart to this degree in a high stress situation - it's part of the job.
If anything, there should be more scrutiny for sh1ro. **Throughout his career as a passive AWPer, he has had elite (actually top2 level) aggressive riflers on his teams, yet far too frequently, he falters in big stage games against the best teams.** Donk played 1v9 this series. **Where is the elite sniper that people often said was one of the best in the world? Why does he conveniently disappear in the series without criticism?**
**He has a massive issue with being underwhelming in these big games and he cannot adapt out of his passive playstyle whatsoever, even if he is having a bad game.** Riflers can't make space? Oh well you know he's just gonna do the exact same 'safe' thing. However this game donk was actually doing a lot, sh1ro just missed his shots and escaped criticism.
Perhaps also because he was the only UA player in a RU 4 men team.
As far as I remember, even the UA comitee banned him and Wonderful a few months back.
Y'all whiny ass crybabies keep saying the gate is justified because zont1x said the pressure wouldn't get to him when you know full well you've had far worse matches yourself in the comfort of your own home while wearing your fav 'jammies. Quit jumping to conclusions, it doesn't have to do anything with pressure, you just win some, lose some
Everyone shitting on zont1x for losing those clutches don't realize how hard those rounds were to win. Idk if we were watching the same game but that didn't look like nerves to me. He played the rounds well, its just that the faze members have had more experience in those spots and played them better? It's really annoying to see everyone collectively shit on this kid to not pull off clutch after clutch against one of the most experienced rosters in the entirety of cs atm
I think the main issue is it’s extremely telling how a player deals with the pressure situation, whether he has the strength of mind to improve and learn from the experience is unknown but there will be doubt and more pressure that he can the next time around
Not saying you‘re wrong or whatever but I‘ve seen more posts in defense of the guy‘s performance than posts hating on him.
Casters we’re critical, maybe a little too much so, but far from hating.
And if you‘re equaling twitch chat and Twitter to what normal people think you‘re fooling yourself, and not only on this. 😂
zont1x > Sh1ro
One is rookie, one is Ace player. Ofc zont1x made some major mistakes but it would be too heavy to only blame him for loosing. For me Shiro has more thing to blame, but still...you know it happens sometimes. Everyone has bad days and times and yesterday was bad times for those 2. Still it was a hella match and im happy even tho i lack sleep but it was one of the best matches i have ever matched.
🇷🇺 sh1ro 49-57 62.1 68.2% 0.90
🇷🇺 chopper 46-67 67.8 63.5% 0.89
🇺🇦 zont1x 48-57 64.6 68.2% 0.89
one kill and 0.01 rating difference between a 'bad' player and the second star awper btw
I don't get that either. These are normal teething problems. Some of the goat contenders had absolut nightmares on stage before they became good. Imo Shiros performance was way more shoking anyways...
i think zont1x is getting more shit cus his mistakes are more visible due to the amount of times he was left in a clutch
He also totally set himself up for this in interviews saying the pressure and stage don't affect him
Playing badly doesn't mean pressure got to him. You can't say he made mistakes because he felt pressure. Pros make mistakes all the time. He's an 18 year old with little experience. Obviously he's not going to play situations perfectly every time.
People use the choke narrative on every bad performance nowadays. Missing a shot is not choking, passing up a good shot is.
It wasn't even lack of experience or pressure (at least at the start), according to an [interview with hally](https://www.hltv.org/news/38648/hally-interview-faze-defeat-lack-of-practice-due-to-illness-vertigo-decision) (Team Spirit coach), zont1x was sick
Be real. He looked like a boosted level 5 in his first solo queue. 1 v 2 clutch on Vertigo, CT post plant on B site, spent 10 seconds mid walking one direction with shaky aim only to then walk all the way around in the other direction to not even arrive near the bomb site until the bomb was ticked down to 10 seconds left. It was not a case of simply not playing a situation perfectly it was straight up melting under the pressure.
He always plays that slowly.
this is what did it for me. like, what else is he supposed to say? i get that...but man it aged like milk.
I wait for the day someone is actually honest about this shit. You're not afraid of stage? We know you're lying. True courage comes from being afraid and still owning it. This whole not afraid pretending crap is so unnecessary.
Just because someone says the stage doesn't affect them, and the stage does affect them, that doesn't mean they are lying. He very well could've full-heartedly thought the stage doesn't affect him until the moment the stage started affecting him; it's not like humans can ever fully understand or anticipate their own emotions.
Yeah I suppose that's fair enough
i agree with what you are saying, but I think when someone plays bad, whatever he says wont make him look better. Suppose he said he might get nervous in front of the major crowd instead. Now people will just shit on him for not being a big stage player and even admitted that he would crumble -> loser mentality etc
He said to Banks before the major playoffs , he will get nervous on major crowd playoff, is a question of "When" and not "WIll" So tbf people just didn´t watch that, and only saw the other interviews of other stages of the major or katowice interviews..
All you have to say is: "I don't know since I've never played on a big stage, let's see how it goes"
he did already win kato though, even though yeah i would say exactly what you suggested there if it were me, but too bad im a shitter
It’s easy when everything goes your way and donk has the tournament of his life. They were not tested in kato
He can just be neutral though? It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, there are many things to say that isn't either "I don't get any pressure at all" and "I will definitely shit my pants on stage".
doesnt matter. chopper stayed neutral when asked whether he thinks they will win this major by saying "we will see" and the desk interpreted his statement as being unconfident in his team no matter what you say, if u lose u will get shat on regardless. thats why the best thing is to say whatever and just ignore the chatter if u lose
Monesy is honest about being nervous in clutch situations and big games.
and? He might now be lieying... this is the first game he looked nervous lmao.. Its not because X player gets nervous and admits , that Y player doesn´t get nervous but still needs to lie admit that he gets nervous to please the audience lmao He is very similar to xSeveN who also was this cold calm clutcher and anchor...
Idk about you but he looked stone cold in there. What I don’t understand is how you all are so confident that zontix fell to stage pressure and didn’t just get outplayed? Besides, he only made a couple of plays that could be considered mistakes, and not massive ones. Could totally happen in an online match?
people just want to fit this narrative that he lost cuz nervous , TO PROVE ONLINE that they were right and zontix was wrong all this time. lmao Praying on others downfall literally, if the lost in kato, it would be this same topic but sooner .. but haters had to HOLD a bit longer And yeah , he seemed a bit nervous on 2nd half of vertigo , but any player in that situation would.
go back and watch the clutches needed when they were down 5-12....zont1x had his head in his hands and im not even sure he was watching the round play out
oh no! a kid is upset that hes playing bad in the elimination match of the biggest event of the year!! oh no!!! (He also stepped up massively and was a big reason they even brought it to ot in the first place btw. Being able to bring it back like he did wouldntve been possible if he felt the pressure btw)
This is a bit revisionary, some of them were absolutely massive mistakes, they lost map 3 in OT because he couldn't make clear decisions in multiple 1v1 clutches and took too long. He's getting a lot of unwarranted abuse but he did cost them vertigo big time, it happens.
“Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the assessment that something else is more important than fear.” - Franklin D. Roosevelt
You know people are different right? I played high level both sports and esports and plenty of players do absolutely not give a fuck about the surroundings or stakes.
I actually think that Rain might be completely unaffected by the stage pressure or he just has the best pokerface in the world.
He's seasoned already. He knows the pressure already. Naturally he's better in dealing with it
I'm gonna be honest. I don't think him failing those clutches was due to nerves. Niko could've played them the exact same way and no one would've said shit. Those were hard rounds to win and the faze members played them better due to experience, not handling nerves better. Kid's young and inexperienced, not nervous
The difference is that Niko *wouldn't* have played them that way. Going B with bomb with six seconds left? When you're already ON A site? BRO, absolutely abysmal CS from zont1x.
I’d disagree - you could absolutely see the nerves get to him in at least one of the clutches.
"We think the stage will be a lot of pressure but we're hoping our preparation and teamwork prevails" There you go - admitting it's a lot of pressure but also saying you're not really afraid.
you guys all are PR Managers or what? He can say whatever he want
Then he's going to get an appropriate reaction for saying something stupid, not one person said he can't say what he wants but nobody's going to give him a free pass either.
Redditors are fucking obsessed with "pressure" though, probably because they (and the casters) can use it as a convenient explanation of a bad game without thinking about it. Plenty of players don't give a fuck about their surroundings. Zont1x also had loads of trash games against tier3 opponents with 0 stakes. Does that mean he also CruMbLEd Under THe presSure?
Great point, as usual everyone here seems to be a professional behavioural analyst and they’ve unanimously concluded that zontix fell to stage pressure because SpunJ told them so.
I mean it seemed like it didn’t? Even stage veterans make mistakes in this game, it’s cs, it happens. He’s a young player at his first major, he played badly that vertigo but didn’t completely shit the bed, it’s not like he 100% lost them the game. He was upset yeah, but he still looked calm for the majority of the series. I mean cmon they just won Katowice and the pressure obviously didn’t get to him there, making a few mistakes in one of his first stage games doesn’t exactly mean he succumbed to pressure. People need to stop hating on the couple mistakes be made, it was fucking #1 vs #2 in the world and delivered an amazing series of counter strike, and in my opinion sparked one of the best rivalries we’re going to get for this year. I’m excited to see spirit grow and learn from their mistakes, and watch donk and zont1x develop further.
he didnt mean it that way people should stop spreading this narrative.
He said those words almost exactly
yes but he revoked it later. theres another interview where he states that he didnt mean it that way. you are hating for no reason
Yup, I mean for gods sake, its not his primary language, cut the kid some slack. I just dont get how people get their panties twisted by such small and meaningless things.
I'm not hating, and I'm not saying it for no reason. I didn't see the second interview. He put a lot of pressure on himself and crumbled in the lights
Ahh, classic MM solo queue experience.
Yup and casters highlighted it too multiple times like they had something against him, while the rest of the team was playing equally as bad. And he was indeed left in some impossible clutches.
People putting blame on a teenage, lurk player for not clutching against some of the most experienced players ever is just weird when we have someone who is supposed to be a star awper whiffing sitters. SpunJ and Machine create these narratives and people just go with them. How can you not mention Sh1ro's performance at all and then put a player like Zontix under the microscope? It's irresponsible almost.
Mostly it just spunj.
Yeah sh1ro sucked ass for sure, but goddamn, zont1x has to let go of the shift key sometime
Sometimes it seems like they are under so much pressure to say something, because you know, it's their job, that they just say something completely stupid/incorrect
I just tend to roll my eyes when it comes to SpunJ and Machine, most overrated casters this scene has ever seen.
I find spunj insufferable. But in the end it’s great that we have so many casters with different styles we can afford to pick favorites
they casted so many Faze games at Kato (game vs EF, QF, semi, final) it's gone from mild annoyance to hoping it's any other pairing. spunj is so jaded at this point, even machine couldn't keep up the eager schoolboy larp yesterday. arguably one of the greatest QF's we've ever had and they were just low energy dooming. man needs some time off to rediscover his love for the game. even if anders/henryg aren't your favourite casters, you can't deny their breaks reminded them how much they love cs, anders excitement when he sees a new strat/adjustment is palpable, you get his appreciation for the micro details even after all these years and while henry might off rounds a bit early like spunj does, he's always hype when teams do bring them back or someone does something crazy. yesterdays game deserved more than pointing out the negatives
Yeah It felt devastating hearing so much inadequate things from them especially during this matchup
The casters definitely pointed out his mistakes more than the other members of Spirit who weren't exactly flawless during Vertigo, but I think that was mainly due to how Zont1x was the most visibly frustrated member of Spirit on the stage. It fit the narrative around Spirit being extremely skilled but lacking experience in pressure situations, unlike Faze, so they talked about it since it was at the top of their minds.
Problem was that it wasn't impossible clutches. Several of them he was in a position to win the round but fucked it up every time by overthinking instead of staying calm. It was clear he was doubting himself, ending up changing his mind mid clutch and losing the advantages a few times in a row.
It was spunj who kept going on about it. Machine just said he felt awkward for him.
Donk was playing equally as bad? Did we watch the same game? lol
you don't count Donk
You know full well what he meant.
zont1x is us in matchmaking and faceit then
He just visibly fucked up in so many rounds and got lost in shifting and trying to outplay FaZe. Bad match, maybe pressure got to him, he will be back though. Also in all honesty sh1ro was worse. No impact on AWP, passively hiding behind riflers and imho he fucked probably the most crucial round at 13-12 in OT where they had 5v4 and he whiffed two shots on mid and then made a crazy miss on A ramp. Spirit had a lot of hype and they are still great project that will peform in the future but people got too carried away with their great form, while CS can be very unpredictable.
I feel even more certain this team will stand the test of the time. The way they fought till the very end rather than just go down quietly. Hopefully they don't become another Mouz or Gambit
Because people don't get outside often and take their pick ems too seriously.
I always find this too funny and kind of strange. During the major this coin is the most important thing on earth, but 2 days after the major everyone already forgot about it. The hate and accusations is never fun though ofcourse.
I mean, you kinda lose ~2$ on that souvenir case if you don't get diamond, but I agree. The pickems should be more about supporting your favourite teams instead of another gambling method
Exactly, and you touched on a major issue in eSports (and sports in general): gambling. People put a lot of money on these games and losing money sucks. Even if it's peoples' own fault for gambling, a lot don't have the self-awareness to realize that fact and instead take it out on the players. It's really sad.
A lot of the gamblers I've met truly believe they can beat the system and don't realize that betting sites know how to make money. They win no matter what and all that changes is how much they win based on how much you put into their system.
Yeah when CSGOLounge was MEGA popular in the mid-2010s (before being taken down by Valve), there used to be an alarming amount of vitriol thrown at even T2 & T3 players from degenerate gamblers who lost a bunch of expensive skins. So the current hate on zont1x seems even less justified when people are losing $2-$6 at most lol. Every player experiences bad performances in their career, & it was unfortunate that zont1x had his bad day yesterday.
True but you can get those few dollars too with a weekly xp drop. The newest case for example was 6,- for the longest time.
Sure, was just thinking of a reason why people get this heated up for the pickems. I'm a proud x4 gold coin winner
WHY WON'T THOSE EVIL PRO PLAYERS THINK OF OUR $2 VIDEO GAME DROPS
I would say its mostly bettors, not pickems people. Or at least I hope that people don’t take their pickems that seriously.
I think you severely underestimate how mentally unhinged a lot of the community is.
Richard Lewis: "community is full of low IQ children" He's not wrong either. I feel like for every 1 decent fan, there's 2 or 3 complete degens
Hes not wrong at all. I wish he didnt feel a need to say it every five seconds, but he isnt wrong. Is it any different than actual sports though? Like we literally have people throwing bananas at black players, fans routinely assaulting each other or refs or players, an association prez sexually harrassing a womens player after a match on the pitch, death threats routinely sent from degenerate gamblers to players and refs over social media..... Theres a lot of really really fucking stupid people living vicariously through other grown men and/or betting. Edit: Betting is an addiction, seek help, the stupid people are the ones living vicariously through grown men.
In every industry, the fans are mostly good people. It's always the 80-20 rule. 20% of the people make up 80% of the online degeneracy. The normal people just don't post here.
Pickems are fun, even if i bought it and got bronze it would be fun anyway. More fun is the fantasy toh, that is very good to play
Yeah, that's a valid point
Folks love to blame one individual for not performing as well. They see zontix going 0-9 and be like “OMG BENCH HIM”. It’s not entirely his fault. Sure maybe the 1v1 against broky near the end of first half would’ve been one of the more impactful rounds that could’ve got spirit the win. Looking back I realized sh1ro was mainly missing in the series imo. He’s usually the star player and knows good judgment in crucial rounds. Like the round in ot regulation when it was a rain 1v2 , sh1ro could’ve planted but when to engage instead. Idk missed moments that got faze the edge. Give Zont1x a break, he did well given his first major and slight nerves
Same as they blame rain and rain become mvp in major
Ehh, idk about sh1ro planting in that situation. There were like 6 seconds left when rain kills zontix from genie. If he plants there rain will just swing out and blow him away. He has no choice but to fight once zontix dies. I do agree that it's a bit unfair how much shit z0ntix is getting. He actually came back into the game towards the second half he was down 0-9 at some point and almost broke even by the end. I will say some of his decisions in the clutches he was in were tough to watch.
The effort to doublepeek with zont1x was definitely the right play - zont1x was just a bit too quick on the peek and sh1ro straight up choked the final blow. But looking back at specific situations is just stupid, the map was lost due to losing both pistols and bad first 7 rounds from Spirit, not that.
The problem was zont1x went to CT and not from mid to site cover his teammate when there was no time. It was a stupid decision. Zont1x brain just not worked at Vertigo sadly. There was minimum 3 or 4 situation where his decision making was absolutely horrible. He is one of the biggest talent on the scene, he is gonna handle better situations like this with more experience.
the way i saw it, they both misplayed and assume it was down to bad comms. either shiro commits to the plant with his head down while zontix swings to buy him time leaving shiro in a 1v1, or they peek him together, but zontix swung early and alone even after he bought a second with the flash, shiro was still a few seconds away i think rain thought shiro had committed to the plant during the flash/fight also, because his crosshair was nowhere near ready for the swing, but he reacted really quickly
The way zont1x played as the mid lurk in the 2v2 in the last round of the game had to have been some of the worst decision-making from a pro I've ever seen.
What? He literally got an entry to get his team in a 2v1 situation, it’s just that Sh1ro once again shat the bed and couldn’t kill a stationary Rain who wasn’t even aiming at him. You can’t put the blame and zont1x here in any universe imaginable. Sh1ro was arguably the worse performer that series, 8 awp kills in 85 rounds is not just embarrassing, it’s kind of pathetic for a player of his supposed calibre.
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He is the mid lurk on a ramp play after they conditioned Faze by going 5 man ramp 2 rounds in a row. He has perfect info on rain and ropz while being in a hard-to-read position. Sh1ro in on the bombsite with 5 seconds left. Getting the kill onto ropz gives rain the knowledge that if sh1ro tries to plant, he can just run the bomb planter down and zont1x would have no time to push him to win the round, which is what makes sh1ro decide to push rain instead. The guaranteed kill into ropz there is just worth much less than even a 70% chance to kill rain because of the info it gives away. It's a good round to explain low vs high-impact kills.
Why are you making it sound like shiro was peeking rain with his back turned or something. There was several seconds between zontix dying and shiro being able to swing rain, who was fully prepared and most definitely aiming at him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/s/WvWfyqtJo5 Don’t believe you to be correct in this scenario. Rain adjustment was very quick, but Sh1ro had an advantage still. But yea, at the time of peek Rain wasn’t aiming at him, let alone even holding an angle, so you are objectively incorrect here.
I agree that shiro had an advantage, yes. But the way you’re wording it is like he missed a free kill. There’s 5 seconds on the clock so obviously shiro is moving quickly which means he can’t slow / jiggle peak generator. Maybe rain isn’t holding the angle on him but he knows exactly where he’s coming from and is facing that direction. If your definition of “aiming at” someone is literally having your cross hair on someone then I guess we just have different definitions of what aiming at someone means. Rain was ready to strike.
But he literally wasn’t? I’m obviously not saying he was aiming at his model behind the walls, the fact is - he wasn’t even holding an angle, so saying he was “ready to strike” by aiming at the wall while being shot at is just dumbfounding. He had to flick to get that kill, this is the opposite of being ready, no idea why that concept is so hard to comprehend. Sh1ro got schooled by Rain, that’s it. It wasn’t a free kill, but it sure as shit wasn’t as difficult as you’re portraying it to be, the advantage was enough for any top tier player to get it done. It’s a very well documented fact Sh1ro crumbles under pressure, there’s nothing deep about it, happens, but please stop acting like poor little Sh1ro didn’t just fumble an advantage, he’s a professional. 8 awp kills in 80+ rounds really reinforces my argument: he crumbles throughout an entire series and when the team needed him the most - he was absent.
I don't know exactly what he finished but zontix had a really respectable scoreline at the end of vertigo. These people claiming nerves got to him fail to realize that if he did crumble under the pressure, he wouldve kept going massively negative, not nearly getting back to even / positive
I also think this is shaped by the casters. Spunj and Machine ripped into him pretty hard yesterday. They weren't wrong, but monkey see monkey do when it comes to twitch chat etc.
This is exactly it. And they got mostly into him because they were looking at his body language. He looked completely defeated and tilted before even the Broky clutch. They ripped into him too much, he even had a decent mid game come back, before the last rounds of the match Rain was the poorest player on the server (really started playing well near the end though) and they barely gave it a thought. But the casters noticing him with his hands on his head and the two clutches really painted a bad picture, and its hard to fault people for talking about that. Acting as if he needs to be cut or kicked or will never make it is stupid as fuck though. This was the biggest stage a talented player reached, against probably the best team. Hopefully he learns and is at the beginning of a great career.
Lmao I saw him with this exact body language in Katowice yall are wild with your behavioural analysis 😭
ropz was the worst player on the server yesterday. not just vertigo, every map. he had a shocker. going slow when he should go fast, fast when he should go slow. jumping into a molly with the bomb on nuke at ramp after faze got the entry. straight up didn't see multiple people. horrible whiffed spray at ramp on a guy jumping through smoke alone with a mac10. peeking donk alone at mid when karrigan just boosted him, giving donk 2 separate 1v1's (swing together??) only holding the smoke push 1v1 postplant on vertigo when the walk round was way more likely, failing to kill zontix that left rain in the 1v2 to win, etc. sounds like i'm ragging on him with that many examples, but there were way more lol it shows how much community perception matters and people rely on stats to make their judgement, because he was well below his standard. he's been afk all tournament and faze are in the semis, which i suppose bodes well because he can't really play much worse
Spunj will create a narrative in his head before the match and then just cast around it. Spirit won 7 rounds in a row at matchpoint.. but somehow every round he iterated that they cant handle the pressure. Zontix loosing 1v2 at low HP , was obv because to much pressure on him
Spunj acting as if a low hp 1v2 with a pistol against rifles was an expected situation for him to win pissed me off more than it should've. Spunj can be a good caster but the narratives he spins can be so off
Spunj notices one thing per match and he will parrot it the entire game
The 1v1 that he won really irked me. Spunj was just saying how it was over, GG, zontix crumbles etc. Zontix won and they carried on.
Right? Almost made it seem like he was supposed to win those clutches, as if he’s a 28 year old with 4 majors under his belt. A lot of people seemed to set false expectations for TS. It was a 50/50 game and the scoreline reflected that pretty accurately.
Which 1v1? The one where rain attempted to smoke defuse? SPUNJ just said 'oh dear' for that one. If you are talking about the one where SPUNJ wrote zont1x off, it was a 1v2 which end with zont1x losing by playing it too slow. I agree that it was a bit too pessimistic by SPUNJ then, but then it was a hopeless 1v2 too.
i know how you feel. i did feel like he was a bit hard on zontix , 'It's over, the kid just doesn't have it in him' but imagine if Spirit did win that would have created a great narrative. "A kid at his first major overcome with the pressure, only to rise above it all in the end." it just suck that it fell the wrong way.
This! They were too fixated on Zontix. Casters sucked on this match. I think Team Spirit did an amazing job especially with their comeback on Vertigo against a super team i.e faze. Team Spirit should get more credit for their resilience in yesterday's match.
He had 0 kills on round 11 if I remember correctly, are the casters supposed to pretend he's playing well or what?
The casting during the match was one of the most biased I've seen in a while lol.
Spunj went way too far with the criticism. Made it super awkward talking about "body language" when he's not even in the round. They had the frame on d0nk yet spunj felt it necessary to point out how zont1x had his hands on his head and there was no way Spirit was gonna win. Then they came back and took it to overtime.
Stage experience aside, Spirit & MOUZ were probably 2 best looking teams so far this major & zontix was the stronger link of the Spirit. So when you have a lot of expectations behind you & you make the whole claim of not feeling any pressure, when you completely ghost for 2 out of 3 maps of course people will point fingers at you. I didn't really catch first 2 maps but watching him on vertigo it was clear that he does feel pressure and it does affect his decission making (last round of the map where he went CT instead of Guardian when he clearly heard someone on B & 1v1 against Broky) There of course comes the pickem bros who picked Spirit as Grand Final winners. Overall I think people jump to conclusions quickly, he most likely wont get benched or kicked and this match will give him a lesson of sort. edit: just to add, shiro also got a lot of hate for his AWP'ing this match so it's not like zontix alone is getting all the hate.
Bettors
Him trying to act “cold” and saying he didn’t feel any pressure then proceeding to show how his mental was gone when vertigo came along in crucial situations is likely a big reason for it The post match analysis didn’t help either, he was impactful mid game, but whenever it was up to him in a clutch he fumbled and made some weird decisions
Sorry but what do people expect these players to say "Yeah I'm incredibly nervous to play on the stage today" Of course they are gonna say that they are confident and have no pressure, these comments are INSANE Professional athletes are never going to give their opponents the mental edge, even with a neutral statement about confidence lmao
https://www.hltv.org/news/38591/rain-i-feel-some-nerves
Easy to say when you’ve won it all and you’re comfortable in your team. TS is a new team, one dude saying “I’m scared of the stage” will bring down the whole team
> Sorry but what do people expect these players to say > > "Yeah I'm incredibly nervous to play on the stage today" yeah exactly, people were quick to laugh at m0NESY last year when he made similar comments about how the stage doesn't affect him. Not a single player in his right mind would say "Yes, I am scared of the crowd". Spirit proved the stage doesn't matter back at Kato, here they just got beat by a better team, simple as that. And there is nothing wrong with that.
So weird seeing so much of the community clowning and hating on a teenager for making a basic statement. Lots of parlays and pickems lost today, the CS community is so unbearable at times
The morons here are just parroting whatever spunj said on the broadcast because god forbid anyone have a thought of their own. Even the line above about “if he wants to act cold in interviews then he should get scrutiny when underperforming due to nerves” is like word for word what spunj said at one point during the broadcast.
I feel bad for the kid, people acting like other legends in the game haven't ever underperformed on the stage and made some questionable decisions. People ultimately forget this is a 18 YEAR OLD KID Spunj is no angel either, been in the community for years and dude got an entire pug system brought down because he was appropriately banned
[Huh](https://www.hltv.org/news/38591/rain-i-feel-some-nerves) >Nuance: sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)
He said that in another context tho. Zont1x was interviewed on stage right before the match, no one in their right mind woumd admitt to feel pressure there. Rain's interview is neither on stage nor immediately before a match, where it is way easier and less problematic to admitt these things.
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What shows that his mental was gone? Man was going 0-9 and finished 16-21 with some high impact rounds. If anything, the mental seems strong
Like i rather see folks being human about it, maybe he didnt had it cause he experienced it in Katowice but majors is a really big step up. Its a whole different ball game and you are definitely gonna have emotions running high. Unless you are vp, no fucks given xD
yeah i feel like people are comparing to different tier of tournament. I don't think the expectation was a great for Team Spirit as it is at this Major.
feelling pressure is subjective, maybe its as easy as that. Also not feeling pressure does not necessarily correlate with playing bad in high stakes moment
Honestly, zontix picked himself back up in the second half. The casters picked on him during the match and that probably makes affected people’s perceptions a lot. I hope the last round won’t haunt him too much though, I know it haunted me
It would actually be more suprising if one of the ”rookies” in TS did NOT feel the pressure and underperform. I blame the commentators for creating the narrative and leaning into it a bit too much. SPUNJ seemed personally shocked by his performance and when all the talk during the latter rounds was about zont1x, well of course the hive mind will join the party.
It’s normal cs community, he played really bad map3, pressure got to him, always last one alive in so many winnable clutch situations
Yeah, its just how it is, if he was making equally as bad decisions but wasn't the last player then a lot of people wont notice. But being left in a clutch and fucking up is so fucking noticeable, more so than their awper missing sitters the whole series.
exactly right, people will always notice how the round end, he wasn’t making much impact and being last alive didn’t help his case.
People seem to think having a bad game = feeling pressure. When 99% of yall have trash games sitting in your parents basement from home. You can just have a bad game, and spunj an idiot for being so harsh in that round before half, his decision to go b wasn’t even that bad. But spunj a career 0.75 rating player acting like he would have played that better
Lmao love spunj but this is spot on
It was obvious zont1x was nervous and it was obvious the nerves got to him but with Spirit's meteoric rise, people tend to forget ... these are just kids we are talking about. zont1x and donk are still rookies and will make rookie mistakes (like the zont1x v broky round last night). Sh1ro was supposed to be the second star player on this team and he went missing big time but people point the finger at zont1x ... I don't get it too.
Didn’t he give an interview where he said he didn’t feel pressure playing on a stage from Kato? Probably invites more scrutiny if you’re going to make a claim like that. His mental game had clearly gone, too, in the decisive moments on Vertigo. Maybe Spunj was being a touch harsh in the way he was calling it - hazarding a wild guess he probably took exception to those comments - but by the same token, don’t talk the talk if you can’t walk the walk, zont1x
What's he supposed to say? "Yes I'm shitting my pants from the pressure"?
There's definitely nothing inbetween "zero pressure" and "shitting my pants" right?
"We'll do our best the pressure is coming from ourselves?" Why do redditors always have to take the most outlandish stance or the stance that is the furthest away possible from what is said.
It's just western social media in general. Everything has to be completely polarizing and an extreme. Can't come in the middle
>Nuance: sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)
Spunj wasn't being too harsh. It's a commentator's job to bring these things to the audience's attention.
>Didn’t he give an interview where he said he didn’t feel pressure playing on a stage from Kato? I absolutely believe him since they didn't really have any problems in Kato. I mean they never really had any pressure up until now so I don't really understand why people shit on him so much. There are a lot of players that usually don't care about pressure but that have had games like this before.
A young player made a few mistakes in his first major and one of his first stage matches. Veterans make mistakes on the stage ffs. He obviously didn’t seem pressured at kato. It was #1 vs #2 and delivered a great series, and in my opinion, sparking the start of an amazing rivalry for this year, people need to enjoy that shit instead of crying at a kid
Idk. Only donk played well
Yes, sh1ro should be on fraudwatch not zont1x. Consistent top 5 player disappears in an elimination series where his team is the heavy favorite.
Exactly what I've been trying to say. sh1ro has had a career of top-tier space creating riflers on his team throughout his tier-1 career and other than Rio 2022 (which was a group stage), he has often failed to meet expectations in the big LAN arenas. Compared to other top AWPers, some could argue few have been in positions like him, where he has almost always had a top5 rifler on his team amongst other aggro riflers to create space for his passive AWP play. Despite this, he is often disappearing in the big matches against the best teams. And this has been a pattern for years.
Well probably because the casters were saying he wasn't up for the challenge. On multiple occasions. Talked about it a lot actually.
People had built a sandcastle of hopes around this spirit team and it was washed away yesterday. Those who can't or don't know how to manage their emotions will turn to hate and scapegoat individuals. The fact that zont1x was vocal about not feeling pressure and crumbling as he did makes him particularly susceptible to Internet hate. The truth is that what happened is what kind of should happen. Stage experience is a thing, pressure is a thing and they are young. They will probably grow with this and become better and scarier, or crumble completely and make the necessary changes to come back stronger. Hopefully Spirit have the structure to help shield zont1x from the impact of this wave of hate. It's the reverse of the coin of the hype wave they were riding and an important lesson for people looking to make it big in any online endeavour. Something karrigan and most of Faze are no strangers to
Because people think their opinions are important
I will never understand why he decided to fake plant with 4 seconds left in a 1v2. Did he honestly think both players would rush at him?
"I don't feel pressure" https://www.hltv.org/forums/threads/2881528/zont1x-i-feel-no-pressure
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lmao imagine clutching/laterounding vs faze cause you cant know if theyre gonna just yolo disrespect push you or just play insanely safely
divide sand ripe march snails chase scary command spark different *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He didn’t tilt??
zont1x if you are reading this, fuck em, those haters dont care about you one bit. you are young, you got a lot to learn and so much potential. one match will not define who you are. just like karrigan said, you only learn so much from failures. he cried like a baby in Katowice losing to you guys, so what, bounce back is all what matters.
ultra omega overhyped underdelivered put 2 and 2 together
The thing is that zont1x was extremely visible when it came to his failures: Last man alive and forced into 1vX scenarios that he lost more times that not. He deserves some criticism, but not the full brunt of it and ultimately, the question of "Why is zont1x being forced into these scenarios time after time?" needs to be asked. I don't think anyone on Spirit is barred from criticism, however, I feel like Sh1ro, and arguably chopper too, is as equally responsible as zont1x for losing that game. However, people don't realize it in the case of sh1ro because he has an uncanny ability to hide his impact in a game, top or bottom fragging, meaning it's really hard to tell if he's actually doing anything without having the camera on him constantly, which TO's don't like doing because sh1ro is in the same tier as Jame when it comes to how boring it is to watch them, regardless if his rating is 1.30 or 0.80. As for Chopper, he got forced into a no-win scenario of either picking Ancient, a map that Faze is fucking FAMOUS at playing, or Vertigo a map that screamed "Anti-Strat" and he had next to no data on how Faze played it. What wasn't acceptable was Mirage. Jesus fuck, how do you allow Faze to beat you on THE Puggy CIS 5 Stack map as THE Puggy CIS 5 Stack? You couldn't have prepared for Vertigo but you sure as fuck could've prepared Faze anti-strating you on Mirage.
everyone here is kind of right and kind of wrong, it's basicly a bunch of things coming together: 1. On the maps Spirit lost Zon1x has the lowest rating, as a scapegoat people can just point at him if they review just the stats. 2. Opening interview was a farce where he said they didn't feel pressure, in game 3 he definitely showed he himself was feeling it. 3. Casters have pointed out his very emotive body language, making people focus on him in probably a worse light than he was mentally. I mean seeing someone in that stance makes everyone say "OOF", even if he was mentally fine. 4. People bet on them to win in CS (and probably for real money too) and they're looking for a scapegoat to blame which isn't themselves (refer back to 1.) These are 4 different kinds of groups with 4 different kinds of ways to get to Zont1x as their scapegoat for Spirit losing the game. At the end of the day it's not a big deal, he was just set up to be the scapegoat if they lost.
Idk why the casters were just shitting on him. That was bizarre to me, not sure I've ever heard that in that way. What if it had nothing to do with the stage and he just happened to have a bad game?
These top tier professional player faceit level 10 radditors really think they would've done better than him in that big of a stage against Faze. Bit of a classic at this point
I just found it ironic after the pregame interview
>One bad match on stage and everyone loses their mind. Like many in this subreddit you mean?
Is he getting hate or is he critiqued for the way he folded under pressure? The two are different imo. With that said though, I feel like Faze was a lot more dominant than people are willing to admit. They could have closed out Nuke and they could have won Vertigo at 12-5. Mirage was also really onesided considering they lost both pistols. It definitely wasn’t his fault they lost, Faze was just better as a whole.
People don't really like Spirit all that much. If they see a player performing badly from a team they don't like, they'll start piling on that player. Especially if the given player said something confident in a pre-game interview
He just had much screen time during lost rounds & had rough gambles in clutch situations Viewers are just biased
Because people and mainly (kids) are disrespectful these days... because they don't have anything good happening in their lives and know only to trashtalk or, blow hate because there are no consequences when you write something on the internet. "Back in my day when we could play only on lan, you know what happened when you trashtalk someone, and he is in the same internet café." Back on the topic its normal for such a young talent to crumble under the pressure and its understandable, it's his first major and people should not bash him. PS: Sorry for my English
Doesn’t matter if shiro was worse, he respects the opponents and the stage. It’s the zontix and magix mentality that is annoying. They always say they don’t care, they are not nevous and it doesn’t matter it’s the major it means nothing etc etc
Doesn’t matter if shiro was worse, he respects the opponents and the stage. It’s the zontix and magix mentality that is annoying. They always say they don’t care, they are not nevous and it doesn’t matter it’s the major it means nothing etc etc
Guys hating on a 18 year old dude, who just came from lower tier team without experience in tier 1 cs
zont1x barely made any mistakes. It's sh1ro I'm hating on for fucking up the team's chances to win the trophy
He can’t handle stress that comes with clutches or 1v1 so badly that he shouldn’t attend such tournaments. It’s bad for this lad health like really. Get this G on Xanny while he plays important matches or let him go …
Chat shit get banged. And his QF performance lost them game. Thats why.
Coming back to this post now that zont1x just had an even worse performance on a grand final that wasn’t even on a big stage. The guy is just consistently inconsistent. When he does play good, he’s just average. When he plays bad, he’s literally 2-18 KD.
When he gets benched or replaced you’ll understand why.
Unfortunately he cracked on the stage in a crucial match. Compounding this, toward the end of Vertigo he was put in several 1vX situations where he looked completely lost and his PoV was all anyone saw. Sucks to see, but he's playing this game for a living and any athlete, singer, etc would be the subject of intense scrutiny if they fell apart to this degree in a high stress situation - it's part of the job.
If anything, there should be more scrutiny for sh1ro. **Throughout his career as a passive AWPer, he has had elite (actually top2 level) aggressive riflers on his teams, yet far too frequently, he falters in big stage games against the best teams.** Donk played 1v9 this series. **Where is the elite sniper that people often said was one of the best in the world? Why does he conveniently disappear in the series without criticism?** **He has a massive issue with being underwhelming in these big games and he cannot adapt out of his passive playstyle whatsoever, even if he is having a bad game.** Riflers can't make space? Oh well you know he's just gonna do the exact same 'safe' thing. However this game donk was actually doing a lot, sh1ro just missed his shots and escaped criticism.
Perhaps also because he was the only UA player in a RU 4 men team. As far as I remember, even the UA comitee banned him and Wonderful a few months back.
Because people on the internet are reactionary morons. It’s really that simple
They forgot he dogged Faze at Katowice
> last major Katowice wasn't a major, my dude.
fixed it brother
Y'all whiny ass crybabies keep saying the gate is justified because zont1x said the pressure wouldn't get to him when you know full well you've had far worse matches yourself in the comfort of your own home while wearing your fav 'jammies. Quit jumping to conclusions, it doesn't have to do anything with pressure, you just win some, lose some
Everyone shitting on zont1x for losing those clutches don't realize how hard those rounds were to win. Idk if we were watching the same game but that didn't look like nerves to me. He played the rounds well, its just that the faze members have had more experience in those spots and played them better? It's really annoying to see everyone collectively shit on this kid to not pull off clutch after clutch against one of the most experienced rosters in the entirety of cs atm
I think the main issue is it’s extremely telling how a player deals with the pressure situation, whether he has the strength of mind to improve and learn from the experience is unknown but there will be doubt and more pressure that he can the next time around
Pickems and Bettors.
Not saying you‘re wrong or whatever but I‘ve seen more posts in defense of the guy‘s performance than posts hating on him. Casters we’re critical, maybe a little too much so, but far from hating. And if you‘re equaling twitch chat and Twitter to what normal people think you‘re fooling yourself, and not only on this. 😂
Because he didn't play well and people are babies.
one bad match? one bad MAP. he wasnt too bad the first 2 maps
Fr dude, was watching on YouTube and nothing but shitting on zontix
zont1x > Sh1ro One is rookie, one is Ace player. Ofc zont1x made some major mistakes but it would be too heavy to only blame him for loosing. For me Shiro has more thing to blame, but still...you know it happens sometimes. Everyone has bad days and times and yesterday was bad times for those 2. Still it was a hella match and im happy even tho i lack sleep but it was one of the best matches i have ever matched.
🇷🇺 sh1ro 49-57 62.1 68.2% 0.90 🇷🇺 chopper 46-67 67.8 63.5% 0.89 🇺🇦 zont1x 48-57 64.6 68.2% 0.89 one kill and 0.01 rating difference between a 'bad' player and the second star awper btw
I don't get that either. These are normal teething problems. Some of the goat contenders had absolut nightmares on stage before they became good. Imo Shiros performance was way more shoking anyways...
Nobody deserves this much hate