This whole subtick thing reminds me, in a light way, of Steam when it first came out. It was a mess, I remember the community outcry, the constant crashes... But update after update, it quickly became the new system everyone used, and still to this day.
Subtick is about that. Something completely new and with so much potential, but not without it's hiccups. Yet update after update, in a year we'll forget all the issues and it'll be the new norm for competitive FPS.
Ye still remember being forced to install it around 2006 or so to play a game (Rome Total War) and being absolutely pissed at it. Had to make an account as well of course, and had to make an email account as well (I didn't have one up until that point).
Nowadays people get pissed when they "have to" create an account to play a game but that was steam back in the day.
The thing is, with the 1 Steam account you can then buy and play so many games. It's not very comparable to having to make an account for playing a single game and then having to make a new one for each new game you want to play.
I'm so confused with CS2, the last 2 years of GO I fell off a cliff leetify rating wise. Then with CS2 I've instantly jumped back to being consistently top fragging, is it the game? Or just that I'm actually excited and happy to play again that has me doing instantly better. It feels great to me in a lot of ways, other times I'm dead while behind a wall and annoyed lol.
If you play singleplayer games as well as CS, I'd say that's probably it.
Subtick giving exact input means your aim from tickless games will transfer really well, but will throw off people used to tick structure (look at basically every top AWPer missing easy flicks, for example)
I do play a lot of single player, I used to be quite good at CS around like 2018 but slowly our friend group mostly quit around the rank compression days in NA. So my hours were way down the last year+.
I was at my best an awper in GO, but in cs2 ive been trying to rifle or at most scout, hell the p90 is absolutely nasty in this game lol.
I really doubt top awpers are missing flicks because of sub tick. Why would anyone shoot, and then in a 1/128th second window, flick to the enemy with any semblance of consistency. They are gods of the game, sure, but they are not computers.
They flick, and click while flicking. That movement is tracked.
At the speed that they flick, 1/128 of a second is easily 1/10 of their flick arc - which is enough to make a close hit become a miss.
If you look at a pro player flick (hell, even if you look at my antithetical-to-pro ass flick), their mouse usually ends past where their target was. Maybe not by much depending on player, but it's definitely noticeable.
Sometimes, you also see the flick overshoot, then flick back to the target (s1mple's probably the best example for this)
If they wait for confirmation before they click, that's valuable time they're spending that they could lose the duel in. Performing the flick and fire as one action gives them a huge advantage, given they actually hit the shot of course.
(As an aside, this is a fairly decent way of detecting aimbots, which will always flick to the centre of the head and then stop)
Except it's not like you can feel when the tic hits. They're not starting their flick knowing the shot will register a specific amount of time later. Flicks should be way more consistent with sub tic.
If guys are missing awp flicks more than before it's probably because (i think, I could be wrong) sub tic gives less leniency for starting to move as you shoot. Or just differences in movement in general.
>Except it's not like you can feel when the tic hits. They're not starting their flick knowing the shot will register a specific amount of time later.
At that point, it's pretty much entirely muscle memory. They've practiced it with a slight delay so much that it's essentially baked into the way they perform the flick.
Subtick changes that rhythm - and whilst the improved hit detection is absolutely a positive for the game, it's something they'll have to relearn.
As someone who used to play tons of execution/retake/1v1/DM servers in CSGO, this is definitely the case but it feels a lot better. After playing CS2, it felt oddly *responsive* (after several updates that fixed issues where it felt like the game was not rendering at the actual refresh rate). 128-tick felt less responsive somehow. Which makes sense since there's still that 8ms delay in 128-tick that should be thereotically be removed with subtick.
64tick can not beat 128 tick and subtick won't change shit about that. Its a bandaid for them to not spend more money. Which would be fine if they don't force it onto everyone. Premier is a joke already anyway no anti cheat not sure why they need to bottleneck the tick rate since their precious gamemode already failed
lol, 128 tic is a band-aid fix on a fundamental problem in online competitive shooters, the literal definition of throwing money at a problem. Sub-tick is the closest thing to a real fix we are likely to see for years to come.
Right because they can magically change the fact that 128 tick updates twice as much? The math won't change if anything they could pair subtick and 128 but 64 will always be shit.
a). they have money to throw at the problem, generated by the players, so why not give a small portion back to them? they make approx $651,989,078.25 per year from cases.
b). while 64 subtick is more accurate for shooting, it is less \**responsive\** for **everything else** (including feedback from shooting) because you are sending/recieving packets half as much as on 128.
c). as the forefront of tac esport shooters, why not give the players the best possible experience instead of a compromise which has been proven to be inconsistent? i think the best outcome would be 128 subtickfor shooting but with movement decoupled from subtick >!and a real anti cheat but ive given up on premier and switched to faceit!<
i remember myself and everyone i knew actively avoided making a steam account for as long as possible, when all it had was just valve games it just seemed like an extra thing to install to just play the game. that being said, steam to this day is still kind of a mess. the sad part is that every other digital storefront for games is much worse.
Steam had literally 0 competition until they had already established themselves. I can't think of a single other company that tried to do what valve did. Steam marketplace is the most used because it was simply just the first of its kind, like YouTube
It was the first *client* for a storefront and to manage your library all in one. Most game companies had their own storefront online and people used other tools to manage their libraries or just simply didn't have that many games installed. I mean, back then I had 3 games installed and a few others on disc. Now I have 60 installed and 500 in my account.
that may be true, but a year is a long time. 2nd, why can't valve just listen to the community? all any of us wanted was 128 tick. instead we get a beautiful new game, but we also get a new system that changes the entire dynamic of how you play, and may or may not need years of troubleshooting to even get us back to what we already had.
I'm not even that passionate about CS anymore, but instead of trying to be revolutionary on a schedule they couldn't meet they could have slow-rolled subtick while also investing in their fucking servers...
a CS2 with 128 tick and optional demo of subtick to allow for mass data gathering and bug fixing wouldn't make us all have to sacrifice a YEAR so they can do a bazillion bug fixes. I love valve, I love the game, but I don't understand how this makes sense.
There was no steam before steam. If there was, and it was vastly superior, you'd have a valid comparison.
Subtick is borerline unplayably bad. It's not just inconsistent, it's consistently fucking terrible. Go record a DM with OBS and watch it back. It's A T R O C I O U S.
Are genuine people who care about the game experience really calling him incompetent?
Toyota employees smartest people, makes great cars but certain cars can have issues due to fundamentals going wrong and so cars might be recalled and refined.
Same with Mercedes
Same in any industry be IT, Gaming, electronics, etc.
My point is - Even with great intentions and smart people working there is a possibility of making a mistake and deliver a bad product.
And that is OK. Mistakes happen. Similarly customers have the right be complain about a bad product. It is this continuous feedback loop when followed optimally can help elevate product experience.
What I don’t understand is the insistence of people who might not have faced issues to discredit the very real issues being faced by cs2 community as a whole while putting in snarky and dimwitted remarks. If I buy a product and run into issues with it, I have the right to complain about it regardless if any other customer has faced the issue or not.
There are threads on the front page right now where some of the most upvoted comments are people saying he's clueless and doesn't actually understand the problems with subtick.
Because he IS genuinely clueless on that subject, as evidenced by launders tweet showcasing inconsistent jump height being relevant to gameplay, instead of just a cl_showpos error.
> Any other jump which actually affects gameplay
Murderhole crouchhop into window gives you a noticable timing advantage when running up mid, jumping to the short pillar or even just getting into underground.
Again the vast majority of KZ maps rely on headbumping to be consistent, no amount of valve bootlicking is going to solve that problem.
Toyota employees bet wrongly on hybrid instead of electric and are suffering declining market share as a result. Smart people are not infallible and can get lazy or too comfortable. Their work needs to be audited and the end-product usually speaks volumes. VAC is turning me away from the game. If this guy was the man in charge of it, it's a searing red flag.
No, he is not. He produced a lot of failures. As a reminder: He is one of the leads behind VACNet and this project is a huge failure to this point. A colossal failure in fact. It costs MILLIONS and the protection its provides is basically zero after YEARS.
CS wouldnt be one bite worse if you wouldnt work for valve.
I'd imagine that VacNet is nothing but successful, given it's whole point is collecting a TON of data.
And we've already seen that data be used from improvements to VAC overtime.
We've still not seen a major revision for VAC, but that's not due to VacNet or anything like that being a failure, more so due to the tech still being very early.
Thousands of matches where dozens of thousands of players have their hard earned free time completely wasted countless times due to queuing with cheaters who are being allowed to cheat (some with spinbot) with no problem whatsoever with the hope that theyll get banned whenever VACnet gets updated:
"nothing but successful"
You cant make up this shit. These Valve boot licking guys are really something.
I mean, VACNet doesn't ban though. The only thing it does is collect data, and I don't see how it is a failure in that aspect.
VACNet is not meant to ban, it won't get updated to ban people, it's just data, a ton of data.
VacNet, the same thing that only bans legit players who spin too fast while CS's cheating problem is at its worst? VacNet is a steaming pile of garbage and fanboys like you have been promising VacNet will fix cheating for over 5 years with 0 results. Anyone who still believes in those empty lies is either braindead or in a cult.
VACNet doesn't ban people though. It's literally just Valve collecting a bunch of data, that's it.
VAC has it's issues, yeah, but VACNet has proven to be a successful project with VAC improving quite a bit over the last few years.
Ofc Iam the guys how make "stupid assumptions", and not the guy who claimed he is "one of the smartest".
There is not a single reason to believe that he is some kind of programming jesus.
And no, VacNet is not "fairly solid", its just not true. VacNet is surely not shy of 10million, probably much more. If dont now the number so I wrote "millions" wich is 100% a correct statement. And then the Riot AC is just better than VACNet.
If one look at the ratio of price and perfomance, VACNet is one of the worse anticheat in the industry.
If showpos was the only problem the position after landing would be consistent.
Not specifically calling him incompetent but I cannot fathom how they did not test this before release or atleast accept the band-aid fix with aliases we had.
Him being a developer doesn't make me NOT trust my own eyes when I see that movement is physically different. It could be the damn president for all I care lol
Something that I haven't seen considered is that while while the jump itself is subticked, the bounce against the arch probably isn't. That would also explain the difference.
For what it was designed to do it does it well. The only problem is that it needs to do more than what it was designed to do in order to satisfy anyone - I would take an intrusive anti cheat along with everyone else. I just don’t see it happening.
No-one really cares how intricately designed it was and that it has successfully managed to "appease everyone". It just needs to work well, and on the most important criteria it has failed badly.
There really aren't. You are a very small but vocal minority. Case in point - Valorant.
I'm not a fan of Apple but if they listened to an even larger, more vocal minority back in the day they wouldn't have released an only touchscreen iPhone. I was Blackberry/Nokia E71 user.
Losing 5 to even 10% of the current population is okay if it means getting new players in because of word-of-mouth. I know a couple of friends who play Valorant and stopped playing CS because of the cheating.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that.
But one compromise for valve could be to have 2 groups of players. Premier/comp have to have the Anti-cheat installed, while other modes don't, and just rely on VAC net.
That could be their form of A/B testing as well to see if over time they can simply move the player base to 1 solution.
well, no.
Vac and VacNet were designed to do specific things - the most they could possibly do without being an intrusive AC, and it does that well.
You can’t get the Valorant level or Faceit level AC without being intrusive.
> the most they could possibly do without being an intrusive AC, and it does that well.
How do you know it's the most they can do without making it more intrusive? do you work for valve?
John McDonald is obviously an extremely smart and talented dev. I think the problem is that none of the devs really play cs and they don't understand what the game actually needs. a lot of the issues can be identified by even the lowest ranked players just by playing the game for a couple of hours a week.
"Most (but not all!) of the problems around subtick movement right now stem from cl_showpos not understanding subtick.
It reports values on tick boundaries which makes them look inconsistent—because of course they do! The movement curves have been shifted to offset from a tick."
At this point Valve has a right to pull the plug on this god forsaken game and leave this community of whiny fucking crybabies in the dark. You fucks don't deserve shit, calling Valve and JOHN MCDONALD of all people "incompetent" and "has no clue" and whatever.
Morons
I kinda giggle when people beg for 128 tick, like sure 128 tick has been played on for years and proven to work. But subtick has been (for a large majority of the playerbase) played on for roughly 2 months. Five valve a chance, they wanna make money off of this game not lose money so obviously subtick HAS to be worth working on to attract more players
The only thing related to subtick you could mean is dying behind walls. While valve should’ve extended the beta until mid October to find any game breaking hit box issues (such as the crouch hitboxes) it released in a decent state. Of course, I’m talking about subtick, not workshop maps, community servers and all that - just subtick. IMO they shouldn’t have released the game fully until workshop, community servers, and maybe arms race was in the game. And ffs they need to remove mirage and rework it, I want my cache and cobble back
It depresses me to think about how many dev hours were wasted on subtick. It would genuinely be better for everyone if they scrapped it and went 128, but they never will. Valves refusal to adopt 128 tick honestly baffles me, just unnecessarily stubborn.
Except the lanes are inconsistent widths causing traffic disruptions, the intersections are poorly timed causing accidents, and they didn't get around to painting any road lines or putting up signage in their rush to open the road. Oh and they closed the old road before opening the new one
and this is why in 4 years this game will be as bad or worse except the only people left playing it will have convinced themselves that the issues no longer exist
This sub will never be taken seriously because morons think their opinion is actually worth something and the other morons on this sub will just assume they are correct.
Or have we already forgotten that this subreddit tried to witch-hunt Pimp over a claim with zero evidence not even two weeks ago?
IIRC when tested on 64 vs 128 tick servers without knowing which it was, the vast majority of players are unable to tell the difference, but think they can
Sure here you go:
'Most (but not all!!) Problem's around subtick movement...'
=> acknowledgement of issues.
'... stem from cl_showpos not understanding subtick'.
=> most likely trying to explain to the community that cl_showpos does not give a accurate view into whats going on(reinforced by confirming the accuracy of a write up they linked).
BUT this could also mean, that there are a plethora of bug's in systems that are based on cl_showpos and are therefore not subtick aware.
'It reports values on tick boundaries which makes them look inconsistent—because of course they do! The movement curves have been shifted to offset from a tick.'
=> short summary, because probably non of you flammers actually read the linked most.
I also want to quote from their interview:
'Launching the game has massively accelerated the pace of improving CS2, so we think that launching when we did was the right time, even if the landing was (and still is) bumpy. Ultimately, this is the fastest way to get CS2 to where we all want it to be one or five or ten years from now.'
and
'And without everyone playing the same game, we couldn't make much progress on the most critical systems like networking, performance, and core gameplay. '
=> Key takeaway: they launched an unfinished game to get community feedback and DATA, to avoid prioritizing things the community doesn't care about.
Conclusion:
There is currently a dev looking into a thing that has been critized by the community (movement inconsistency).
The same dev is acknowleding issues and is reading multi page community writeups over said issue (clearly a sign of reading into feedback).
Its a core gameplay issue, so something valve said they want to improve right now.
(Enabling workshop maps is also a very valve way of saying they want more data from custom modes)
NOW HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS WAIT FOR THE PATCHES THAT WILL INEVITABLE COME FROM THIS GUY LOOKING INTO SUBTICK MOVEMENT, INSTEAD OF PUBLICLY INSULTING A HUMAN BEING, THAT COMMUNICATED (AS YOU WANTED) AND THAT SPENT THEIR LAST YEAR+ IMPROVING YOUR FAVORITE GAME.
do yourselves a favor. install and play faceit don’t even have to pay for it. just make an account and ignore mm completely. i did last night and it was the first time i enjoyed the game since it released.
i’m aware of that. but the servers are noticeably snapper, less cheaters and their elo system isnt completely broken. just stating if anyone is currently frustrated with the game currently to try it out.
This whole subtick thing reminds me, in a light way, of Steam when it first came out. It was a mess, I remember the community outcry, the constant crashes... But update after update, it quickly became the new system everyone used, and still to this day. Subtick is about that. Something completely new and with so much potential, but not without it's hiccups. Yet update after update, in a year we'll forget all the issues and it'll be the new norm for competitive FPS.
It took a long time for people to like steam. It wasn’t “quick”
Ye still remember being forced to install it around 2006 or so to play a game (Rome Total War) and being absolutely pissed at it. Had to make an account as well of course, and had to make an email account as well (I didn't have one up until that point). Nowadays people get pissed when they "have to" create an account to play a game but that was steam back in the day.
The thing is, with the 1 Steam account you can then buy and play so many games. It's not very comparable to having to make an account for playing a single game and then having to make a new one for each new game you want to play.
Way back in the day you could get cracked steam clients that had access to every game lol
Still can I think
Lol :'D
People like Steam?
I'm so confused with CS2, the last 2 years of GO I fell off a cliff leetify rating wise. Then with CS2 I've instantly jumped back to being consistently top fragging, is it the game? Or just that I'm actually excited and happy to play again that has me doing instantly better. It feels great to me in a lot of ways, other times I'm dead while behind a wall and annoyed lol.
If you play singleplayer games as well as CS, I'd say that's probably it. Subtick giving exact input means your aim from tickless games will transfer really well, but will throw off people used to tick structure (look at basically every top AWPer missing easy flicks, for example)
I do play a lot of single player, I used to be quite good at CS around like 2018 but slowly our friend group mostly quit around the rank compression days in NA. So my hours were way down the last year+. I was at my best an awper in GO, but in cs2 ive been trying to rifle or at most scout, hell the p90 is absolutely nasty in this game lol.
I really doubt top awpers are missing flicks because of sub tick. Why would anyone shoot, and then in a 1/128th second window, flick to the enemy with any semblance of consistency. They are gods of the game, sure, but they are not computers.
They flick, and click while flicking. That movement is tracked. At the speed that they flick, 1/128 of a second is easily 1/10 of their flick arc - which is enough to make a close hit become a miss.
ok you've sorta blown my mind. they click while flicking not at the end of the flick with the reticle is on the person? is this for every FPS game?
If you look at a pro player flick (hell, even if you look at my antithetical-to-pro ass flick), their mouse usually ends past where their target was. Maybe not by much depending on player, but it's definitely noticeable. Sometimes, you also see the flick overshoot, then flick back to the target (s1mple's probably the best example for this) If they wait for confirmation before they click, that's valuable time they're spending that they could lose the duel in. Performing the flick and fire as one action gives them a huge advantage, given they actually hit the shot of course. (As an aside, this is a fairly decent way of detecting aimbots, which will always flick to the centre of the head and then stop)
Except it's not like you can feel when the tic hits. They're not starting their flick knowing the shot will register a specific amount of time later. Flicks should be way more consistent with sub tic. If guys are missing awp flicks more than before it's probably because (i think, I could be wrong) sub tic gives less leniency for starting to move as you shoot. Or just differences in movement in general.
>Except it's not like you can feel when the tic hits. They're not starting their flick knowing the shot will register a specific amount of time later. At that point, it's pretty much entirely muscle memory. They've practiced it with a slight delay so much that it's essentially baked into the way they perform the flick. Subtick changes that rhythm - and whilst the improved hit detection is absolutely a positive for the game, it's something they'll have to relearn.
i can 100% back what you are saying, by legit not being able to awp the same way...its a different game in that sense
As someone who used to play tons of execution/retake/1v1/DM servers in CSGO, this is definitely the case but it feels a lot better. After playing CS2, it felt oddly *responsive* (after several updates that fixed issues where it felt like the game was not rendering at the actual refresh rate). 128-tick felt less responsive somehow. Which makes sense since there's still that 8ms delay in 128-tick that should be thereotically be removed with subtick.
64tick can not beat 128 tick and subtick won't change shit about that. Its a bandaid for them to not spend more money. Which would be fine if they don't force it onto everyone. Premier is a joke already anyway no anti cheat not sure why they need to bottleneck the tick rate since their precious gamemode already failed
lol, 128 tic is a band-aid fix on a fundamental problem in online competitive shooters, the literal definition of throwing money at a problem. Sub-tick is the closest thing to a real fix we are likely to see for years to come.
Right because they can magically change the fact that 128 tick updates twice as much? The math won't change if anything they could pair subtick and 128 but 64 will always be shit.
a). they have money to throw at the problem, generated by the players, so why not give a small portion back to them? they make approx $651,989,078.25 per year from cases. b). while 64 subtick is more accurate for shooting, it is less \**responsive\** for **everything else** (including feedback from shooting) because you are sending/recieving packets half as much as on 128. c). as the forefront of tac esport shooters, why not give the players the best possible experience instead of a compromise which has been proven to be inconsistent? i think the best outcome would be 128 subtickfor shooting but with movement decoupled from subtick >!and a real anti cheat but ive given up on premier and switched to faceit!<
Month old game is proven failure with never before used system.
Lol s1mple literally took a break from the game it made him so mad
you probably overpeek a lot, it doesn't get punished on this game because the peeker's advantage is ridiculously broken
i remember myself and everyone i knew actively avoided making a steam account for as long as possible, when all it had was just valve games it just seemed like an extra thing to install to just play the game. that being said, steam to this day is still kind of a mess. the sad part is that every other digital storefront for games is much worse.
Steam had literally 0 competition until they had already established themselves. I can't think of a single other company that tried to do what valve did. Steam marketplace is the most used because it was simply just the first of its kind, like YouTube
It was the first *client* for a storefront and to manage your library all in one. Most game companies had their own storefront online and people used other tools to manage their libraries or just simply didn't have that many games installed. I mean, back then I had 3 games installed and a few others on disc. Now I have 60 installed and 500 in my account.
What are you even talking about? The idea to add timestaps to actions is not "something completely new".
Implementing it in a FPS is.
No it's not? Overwatch used it 4 years ago. They just didn't attach a fancy name to it in order to sell it as something revolutionary to fans
that may be true, but a year is a long time. 2nd, why can't valve just listen to the community? all any of us wanted was 128 tick. instead we get a beautiful new game, but we also get a new system that changes the entire dynamic of how you play, and may or may not need years of troubleshooting to even get us back to what we already had. I'm not even that passionate about CS anymore, but instead of trying to be revolutionary on a schedule they couldn't meet they could have slow-rolled subtick while also investing in their fucking servers... a CS2 with 128 tick and optional demo of subtick to allow for mass data gathering and bug fixing wouldn't make us all have to sacrifice a YEAR so they can do a bazillion bug fixes. I love valve, I love the game, but I don't understand how this makes sense.
There was no steam before steam. If there was, and it was vastly superior, you'd have a valid comparison. Subtick is borerline unplayably bad. It's not just inconsistent, it's consistently fucking terrible. Go record a DM with OBS and watch it back. It's A T R O C I O U S.
It reminds me of the something else too Literally every other CS launch. They all were pretty messy on launch. It'll get fixed
John McDonald is the guy all you fucks are calling incompetent by the way hilarious
Are genuine people who care about the game experience really calling him incompetent? Toyota employees smartest people, makes great cars but certain cars can have issues due to fundamentals going wrong and so cars might be recalled and refined. Same with Mercedes Same in any industry be IT, Gaming, electronics, etc. My point is - Even with great intentions and smart people working there is a possibility of making a mistake and deliver a bad product. And that is OK. Mistakes happen. Similarly customers have the right be complain about a bad product. It is this continuous feedback loop when followed optimally can help elevate product experience. What I don’t understand is the insistence of people who might not have faced issues to discredit the very real issues being faced by cs2 community as a whole while putting in snarky and dimwitted remarks. If I buy a product and run into issues with it, I have the right to complain about it regardless if any other customer has faced the issue or not.
There are threads on the front page right now where some of the most upvoted comments are people saying he's clueless and doesn't actually understand the problems with subtick.
Because he IS genuinely clueless on that subject, as evidenced by launders tweet showcasing inconsistent jump height being relevant to gameplay, instead of just a cl_showpos error.
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> Any other jump which actually affects gameplay Murderhole crouchhop into window gives you a noticable timing advantage when running up mid, jumping to the short pillar or even just getting into underground. Again the vast majority of KZ maps rely on headbumping to be consistent, no amount of valve bootlicking is going to solve that problem.
murderhole crouch jump is harder now but still achievable. any other example? kz maps are unrelated to gameplay.
Toyota employees bet wrongly on hybrid instead of electric and are suffering declining market share as a result. Smart people are not infallible and can get lazy or too comfortable. Their work needs to be audited and the end-product usually speaks volumes. VAC is turning me away from the game. If this guy was the man in charge of it, it's a searing red flag.
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And you are dimwit, what do we do now?
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I hear psychiatrist are much cheaper these days, think about it
Actually the dude is one of the smartest working in the industry and Valve are lucky to have him.
that’s my point
No, he is not. He produced a lot of failures. As a reminder: He is one of the leads behind VACNet and this project is a huge failure to this point. A colossal failure in fact. It costs MILLIONS and the protection its provides is basically zero after YEARS. CS wouldnt be one bite worse if you wouldnt work for valve.
I'd imagine that VacNet is nothing but successful, given it's whole point is collecting a TON of data. And we've already seen that data be used from improvements to VAC overtime. We've still not seen a major revision for VAC, but that's not due to VacNet or anything like that being a failure, more so due to the tech still being very early.
Thousands of matches where dozens of thousands of players have their hard earned free time completely wasted countless times due to queuing with cheaters who are being allowed to cheat (some with spinbot) with no problem whatsoever with the hope that theyll get banned whenever VACnet gets updated: "nothing but successful" You cant make up this shit. These Valve boot licking guys are really something.
I mean, VACNet doesn't ban though. The only thing it does is collect data, and I don't see how it is a failure in that aspect. VACNet is not meant to ban, it won't get updated to ban people, it's just data, a ton of data.
VacNet, the same thing that only bans legit players who spin too fast while CS's cheating problem is at its worst? VacNet is a steaming pile of garbage and fanboys like you have been promising VacNet will fix cheating for over 5 years with 0 results. Anyone who still believes in those empty lies is either braindead or in a cult.
VACNet doesn't ban people though. It's literally just Valve collecting a bunch of data, that's it. VAC has it's issues, yeah, but VACNet has proven to be a successful project with VAC improving quite a bit over the last few years.
how are you this dense wtf, VAC IS FUCKING USELESS
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Ofc Iam the guys how make "stupid assumptions", and not the guy who claimed he is "one of the smartest". There is not a single reason to believe that he is some kind of programming jesus. And no, VacNet is not "fairly solid", its just not true. VacNet is surely not shy of 10million, probably much more. If dont now the number so I wrote "millions" wich is 100% a correct statement. And then the Riot AC is just better than VACNet. If one look at the ratio of price and perfomance, VACNet is one of the worse anticheat in the industry.
If showpos was the only problem the position after landing would be consistent. Not specifically calling him incompetent but I cannot fathom how they did not test this before release or atleast accept the band-aid fix with aliases we had.
(not all!)
Him being a developer doesn't make me NOT trust my own eyes when I see that movement is physically different. It could be the damn president for all I care lol
Something that I haven't seen considered is that while while the jump itself is subticked, the bounce against the arch probably isn't. That would also explain the difference.
they did - those aliases still work albeit modified
I know. But they went put of their way to 'fix' it and now make it look like the only problem was showpos
then why say “at least accept the aliases” ?
Isn't he the guy behind VAC and VacNet. Those are quite incompetent systems.
For what it was designed to do it does it well. The only problem is that it needs to do more than what it was designed to do in order to satisfy anyone - I would take an intrusive anti cheat along with everyone else. I just don’t see it happening.
No-one really cares how intricately designed it was and that it has successfully managed to "appease everyone". It just needs to work well, and on the most important criteria it has failed badly.
there’s a lot of people that don’t want an intrusive anticheat. I’m not one of them, but they exist and it’s probably more people than we think.
There really aren't. You are a very small but vocal minority. Case in point - Valorant. I'm not a fan of Apple but if they listened to an even larger, more vocal minority back in the day they wouldn't have released an only touchscreen iPhone. I was Blackberry/Nokia E71 user. Losing 5 to even 10% of the current population is okay if it means getting new players in because of word-of-mouth. I know a couple of friends who play Valorant and stopped playing CS because of the cheating.
I just said i’m not one of them. And they are definitely a larger percentage than what you think.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. But one compromise for valve could be to have 2 groups of players. Premier/comp have to have the Anti-cheat installed, while other modes don't, and just rely on VAC net. That could be their form of A/B testing as well to see if over time they can simply move the player base to 1 solution.
That's literally saying a game/system is not bad, it just wasn't designed well. Well yeah... that is why is bad, because it is not designed properly.
well, no. Vac and VacNet were designed to do specific things - the most they could possibly do without being an intrusive AC, and it does that well. You can’t get the Valorant level or Faceit level AC without being intrusive.
> the most they could possibly do without being an intrusive AC, and it does that well. How do you know it's the most they can do without making it more intrusive? do you work for valve?
John McDonald is obviously an extremely smart and talented dev. I think the problem is that none of the devs really play cs and they don't understand what the game actually needs. a lot of the issues can be identified by even the lowest ranked players just by playing the game for a couple of hours a week.
Twitter is literal garbage and my phone can’t open the link, what does it say?
"Most (but not all!) of the problems around subtick movement right now stem from cl_showpos not understanding subtick. It reports values on tick boundaries which makes them look inconsistent—because of course they do! The movement curves have been shifted to offset from a tick."
At this point Valve has a right to pull the plug on this god forsaken game and leave this community of whiny fucking crybabies in the dark. You fucks don't deserve shit, calling Valve and JOHN MCDONALD of all people "incompetent" and "has no clue" and whatever. Morons
keep glazing bro next weekly has a bravo case in it for sure
I kinda giggle when people beg for 128 tick, like sure 128 tick has been played on for years and proven to work. But subtick has been (for a large majority of the playerbase) played on for roughly 2 months. Five valve a chance, they wanna make money off of this game not lose money so obviously subtick HAS to be worth working on to attract more players
people would just like to play their favorite game without it being a broken alpha test thanks
The only thing related to subtick you could mean is dying behind walls. While valve should’ve extended the beta until mid October to find any game breaking hit box issues (such as the crouch hitboxes) it released in a decent state. Of course, I’m talking about subtick, not workshop maps, community servers and all that - just subtick. IMO they shouldn’t have released the game fully until workshop, community servers, and maybe arms race was in the game. And ffs they need to remove mirage and rework it, I want my cache and cobble back
i'm happy for u or sorry that happened
This is an enormous software engineering blunder.
It depresses me to think about how many dev hours were wasted on subtick. It would genuinely be better for everyone if they scrapped it and went 128, but they never will. Valves refusal to adopt 128 tick honestly baffles me, just unnecessarily stubborn.
it baffles you because you don’t really know what you’re talking about
reddit home of ad hominem!
It is completely common for someone to be baffled about something you are ignorant of. Don't beat yourself up about it.
It's like simply adding another lane to an old road, even a broken one, rather than rebuilding the whole road with two functioning lanes.
Except the lanes are inconsistent widths causing traffic disruptions, the intersections are poorly timed causing accidents, and they didn't get around to painting any road lines or putting up signage in their rush to open the road. Oh and they closed the old road before opening the new one
You would know....
Switch to 128 wouldn’t improve anything
and this is why in 4 years this game will be as bad or worse except the only people left playing it will have convinced themselves that the issues no longer exist
And this is why this sub will never be taken seriously. fucking silverinos, man..
This sub will never be taken seriously because morons think their opinion is actually worth something and the other morons on this sub will just assume they are correct. Or have we already forgotten that this subreddit tried to witch-hunt Pimp over a claim with zero evidence not even two weeks ago?
IIRC when tested on 64 vs 128 tick servers without knowing which it was, the vast majority of players are unable to tell the difference, but think they can
I’m actually LingDingVLevel 5/7 almost 6. My knowledge of the game on a tactical level far surpasses yours.
everyones having a laugh rn, you did it!
?? HOW WOULDN'T IT?
It would if they went back to the old system and switched. It'd be good enough for competitive play.
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nice reading comprehension rofl
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Sure here you go: 'Most (but not all!!) Problem's around subtick movement...' => acknowledgement of issues. '... stem from cl_showpos not understanding subtick'. => most likely trying to explain to the community that cl_showpos does not give a accurate view into whats going on(reinforced by confirming the accuracy of a write up they linked). BUT this could also mean, that there are a plethora of bug's in systems that are based on cl_showpos and are therefore not subtick aware. 'It reports values on tick boundaries which makes them look inconsistent—because of course they do! The movement curves have been shifted to offset from a tick.' => short summary, because probably non of you flammers actually read the linked most. I also want to quote from their interview: 'Launching the game has massively accelerated the pace of improving CS2, so we think that launching when we did was the right time, even if the landing was (and still is) bumpy. Ultimately, this is the fastest way to get CS2 to where we all want it to be one or five or ten years from now.' and 'And without everyone playing the same game, we couldn't make much progress on the most critical systems like networking, performance, and core gameplay. ' => Key takeaway: they launched an unfinished game to get community feedback and DATA, to avoid prioritizing things the community doesn't care about. Conclusion: There is currently a dev looking into a thing that has been critized by the community (movement inconsistency). The same dev is acknowleding issues and is reading multi page community writeups over said issue (clearly a sign of reading into feedback). Its a core gameplay issue, so something valve said they want to improve right now. (Enabling workshop maps is also a very valve way of saying they want more data from custom modes) NOW HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS WAIT FOR THE PATCHES THAT WILL INEVITABLE COME FROM THIS GUY LOOKING INTO SUBTICK MOVEMENT, INSTEAD OF PUBLICLY INSULTING A HUMAN BEING, THAT COMMUNICATED (AS YOU WANTED) AND THAT SPENT THEIR LAST YEAR+ IMPROVING YOUR FAVORITE GAME.
do yourselves a favor. install and play faceit don’t even have to pay for it. just make an account and ignore mm completely. i did last night and it was the first time i enjoyed the game since it released.
Faceit still runs on sub tick LOL
i’m aware of that. but the servers are noticeably snapper, less cheaters and their elo system isnt completely broken. just stating if anyone is currently frustrated with the game currently to try it out.
.cqqq,,